Episode 110. Am I a Burden? (ft. Sol Ryan)

How do you "get" by giving something up?

Everyone has something in life with which they struggle or need help. Why do we insist on going it alone? This week we sit down with our pal, Sol Ryan, and dig deep into the healing power of sharing our pain, burdens, and challenges with each other. 

“Vulnerability is where the true relationships and true connections happen.” 

Sol Ryan is the President/Co-Founder of Recovery Community Hockey and actively works with several teams in the NHL and NBA to break down barriers to recovery. More info: info@rchockey.org 

Transcript

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before we begin today's conversation, I want to introduce you in a slightly different way. This was an email from an avid listener who knew you were going to be in studio. Soul is the kind of person who feels like a walking hug. He is someone I deeply admire, respect, and look up to. He lifts people up in ways they never imagine possible, helping them see who they truly are. Reminding them to be grateful for every single second they are alive on this earth. There are people who influence your life in small ways, and then there are people who change the trajectory of your life entirely. Soul is the latter for me. He gave me the confidence to move forward in my career when I could not see the path clearly. I'm here today doing the work I love because he believed in me before. I fully believed in myself. If I could give soul one gift, one gift, it would be this, the ability to see himself the way the rest of the world sees him. Only then will he truly know how impactful he is. How do you feel that someone would describe you in that way? Well, I knew we were gonna get emotional, but I didn't know it was gonna be off the top here. Um, what I was feeling was gratitude. What I was feeling was awe, part of me doesn't know how to fully receive that, but I also am grateful that I have people in my life that see things in me that I may not fully see in myself, and that inspires me. What in your life shaped the way you now show up for others? Fundamentally, when I got sober is the catalyst of how I live my life today. it was something that I, I didn't know how to deal with in my life and was, um, something that was creating a, a lot of pain. And it's interesting and to me today how that pain was the catalyst to now live a life that I've always wanted to live, but I didn't know how to, you serve as the VP at River Place Counseling Center, and you're the president and co-founder of Recovery Community Hockey. Over 15 years in the behavioral health field, you are dedicated to expanding access to quality care and breaking down barriers to recovery. Your work is driven by a passion for helping individuals reclaim their lives, ensuring that support and resources are available to those who need them most. You share a bit more about what a day in the life of a president and co-founder of Recovery Community Hockey looks like. Well, that was something that was started in a very, very organic way. And the foundation was a, a team, uh, a sober team that I began to play with called the St. Paul 30 Fivers. And it was a group of men that were sober and we wanted to play in a league. And after one of the games We're having a meal and the conversation come up, came up that why isn't there a sober skate in Minnesota and you know, the land of 10,000 lakes in the state of hockey and the state of recovery. 10,000 kegs. Yeah. 10,000 kegs. Yeah. Uh, so we, we talked about it and, you know, I said, guys, I, I think I can maybe put some work time to this. And so we created recovery community hockey and, uh, Doug Anderson and Ryan Kenoy and I, we founded, uh, an organization that put together a, a pickup skate. We got sponsors to pay for the ice time. And then that led to a connection to the Minnesota Wild, where we did the first ever Minnesota Wild Recovery night. And, you know, the idea was to have a, a meeting before the game. Then go to the game after. And um, you know, we, we wanted to get 50 people and we ended up getting 200. And from there it grew to, um, this last year, you know, we had over 2300 people at the pregame event, and it's expanded nationally to, is this throughout the NHL? Well, there's several teams. It's not a, a full, um, it's not fully part of the NHL yet, we hope it will be. And it's expanded into to New Jersey, Nashville, Tampa, San Jose. Uh, we've expanded into basketball, uh, with the timber wolves. So we're gonna be doing the third, third annual there. And The idea is to bring a former professional athlete, former professional player that is open about their recovery and have them come in and give the a pre-game talk. And, and then, uh, you know, it's about community and connection and it's about smashing the stigma and it's about creating awareness around, that it's possible. And what's really interesting to me is hearing from somebody who played at a professional level. You know, we had one speaker that talked about, you know, having his jersey retired and, you know, winning three Stanley cups and, you know, 20 years in the NHL. And proud of all those things, but the thing he was most proud of was his sobriety now. Mm-hmm. And it was from his heart and he was dead serious. The email I received that I read at the beginning was from our mutual friend Peter Hubbard. Mm. Who does a lot of work for the Masonic Institute for the Developing Brain. I was inspired reading about your endeavors. You're actively striving to smash the stigma surrounding addiction and substance use. You're out there building relationships, working to foster awareness, support, and hope for those in recovery. And that was a segue right into a lot of the topics we're talking about with Minnesota Freemasons, about a focus on mental health and really any range of challenge in life. How often we go to work we, and for us, we go to lodge, we keep the face up. How are you? I'm fine. I'm great. Everything's good. Everybody's got something. Our efforts have been focused around making brotherhood a verb. Not just a word we say in our masonic circles, but can you feel it? And, and are we comfortable enough to be vulnerable when it makes sense? I know you're a, a fan of strength through vulnerability because is it safe to say that's where the real relationships are built? Yes, absolutely. as a young man growing up, I was not, I was not showing, or I would say the societal pressures were that vulnerability was a weakness and that really sharing how you're really doing was something that you just didn't do. through my recovery journey and all of the amazing people that have come into my life, I've been shown what vulnerability looks like. it still is one of those things where, you know, how do you get by giving up? Or how do you create a better connection with something that's greater than yourself by stopping to try to figure it out. So vulnerability to me is where the true relationships and true connections happen, and something that I've learned in speaking to people who may not be in recovery. Everybody has something A lot of people have gone through very difficult situations in their lives, and most times it's those difficult situations that we go through that are the catalyst for living a different life. I talk about being a grateful alcoholic to be real with you. When I first heard that, I thought that that was some line that they used or some, you know, pamphlet. It's a pamphlet. Yeah, yeah. Let, let's, let's tell'em to be, to say that they're grateful for being an alcoholic, and it just did not, it, it really annoyed me. And, you know, the, the reality is, is that I am a grateful alcoholic today because my alcoholism, my addiction. Was the catalyst that allowed me to start living a different life, I want to delve into something you just mentioned because I think that's where the depth of this comes from. How often do you see or meet someone who had an unaddressed challenge in life? And it doesn't have to be alcohol, it doesn't have to be substance abuse. It could be depression, anxiety, it could be struggling with a relationship at home, anxiety on the work front. Those things go unaddressed. We bottle it up. I'm as in the same generation. You don't talk about that. Men don't talk about that. You're supposed to just play through it, push through and so often having these conversations, it seems like the common thread, no matter where somebody's journey took them, whether it was into a depth of depression or alcoholism, started with they felt like they were alone. It felt like there was no one to talk to and they were paranoid to share for fear of looking weak and not living up to the persona that they feel that they're obligated to present to those where do we unlock that safety of saying, Hey, I'm gonna be open with you and share and be vulnerable. The unlocking for me was witnessing other men do it before me. seeing people who I admired and who I looked at and looked up to, who were willing to have the courage to share about what was really going on. And I understand that not everything is meant for everybody to hear, and you don't wanna be that guy. No. Right. you know, so, so there's some things that, that are private. when I say if you're dealing with something and something comes to your mind when I say that, there is a resource somewhere to be able to talk about that. Yes. used to have ideas about people who, who saw a therapist, and not that they were bad people, but you know, they must have a, a. Another level of circumstances that are requiring them to do that. And, you know, we'll guess, guess who's, uh, had his own therapist for like the last over decade. That was the same way. Well, they must have real problems. Yeah, way more than Exactly, exactly. And, you know, so there's, there's resources there. Uh, you know, for me, there's a, there's a brotherhood in, in my recovery circle. There's, um, you know, a, a spiritual mentor, um, you know, there's, there's a lot of different resources and you know, when going back to that unlocking, it's, I don't know if I would've been willing to be as vulnerable and as open if I didn't see other people doing it. for me now, I take on that responsibility to be able to share about my own journey. you know, so I don't do it necessarily to celebrate. Well, I don't do it to celebrate myself. It's not about that. It's about being willing to talk about something that I've gone through that then maybe could help somebody else. There was a time in my life when I assumed that if someone was sober, it was forced upon them and that they were the fun police. That their life must just be so lame. I quietly felt sorry for them as I was ordering my fourth drink at the bar. what, what are your thoughts on that? when I was facing the idea that I wasn't gonna be able to drink or use substances anymore, I could not see my life in that way. When, when was that? I got sober August 16th, 2008. So I just celebrated, uh, 17 years. And, a couple years ago, I actually. Switched where I had been sober longer than I had drank, which was very interesting to reflect on that. And so when I was facing this idea of not being able to, to use substances or drink, there was no way that I could see my life in a way that I could have fun, you know, I needed something. And, I also thought about, you know, why did I do that? You know, and I, and I really remember analyzing it. And, and today the fundamental idea that I have is that I, I just, I react differently when I ingest substances in my body than people that can do it. what I would say is that if sobriety really was that way and it wasn't fun, I still, I wouldn't still be doing it. I, I wouldn't And dreams. Have come true. I have been given opportunities by amazing people that have come into my life to experience life in a way that I had. I had seen other people living, but I had no idea how to do it or how to get there. so these gifts and these absolutely blessing, these absolute blessings that I've been given. I hesitate sometimes to even share directly about all the different things that I get to do in my life today because. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging about Yeah. Look at me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. you know, but there's, there are, there are so many things that, that I am, am doing in my life today that, um, It resembles a completely different life than I grew up, um, living. it's not just a little bit because of sobriety. It's all because of sobriety. I've heard the recovery community described as the spiritual mafia. Our conversation today isn't solely about alcohol though. It's an effort to be there for each other. No matter what someone is struggling with in life. We just hold onto things so tightly as humans afraid of what someone might say. I heard it said once that we don't admire people who are perfect. We admire people who are imperfect and they're okay with it. Realizing personally that I had fallen into some depths of depression, I didn't wanna admit that to my, I sure didn't wanna tell anybody about it. People knew me as well. You're, that's not you. You're not depressed. And then the way we were, the baggage we carry, you're fine. Play through the pain, push through. What a disservice we do to our ourselves and to each other. You kind of touched on it earlier, and I understand that we don't want to be the person that walks in the room and walks up to the proverbial microphone and says, for the next half hour, I'm going to share everything in a tidal wave. No. it's striving to be in a place where we can be ourselves. Take off the mask. That spiritual mafia line is, it made me chuckle, but it's true. The support. Of friends and of brothers and, and some people you don't even know yet that will be there to help with, with, with whatever that aspect or challenge of one's life might be. I found that in a professional setting, when I find out somebody is in recovery, there becomes this deeper bond and connection that's there that wouldn't otherwise be there. there is a, a web of people throughout the world connected in such a way that I remember sitting in a meeting in Chiang Mai, Thailand. With a man who I was actually in treatment with talking about our recovery journeys. And it just made me think, if you would've told me when I was sitting in treatment that this would be taking place, I would've never believed you. I would've said, yeah, that sounds awesome. Um, but the spiritual mafia and the spiritual brotherhood and the spiritual connection, and to me it's, it's something that I am so grateful for because it's something that gives me inspiration to continue to be there for other people. And when I think about the responsibility, going back to not having to share everything. However, if there's a situation where I know where I can be helpful, I have a responsibility to say something. Is it as easy as telling a friend, a colleague, someone, if you need to talk about anything, I won't judge you. I won't try to fix you, but I will sit down with you in the proverbial mud and listen and, and respect you at the end of that. Yeah, that's a great way to, to begin the conversation. so I work in the field and I've worked in the field now for over 15 years, and I remember early on not. Necessarily feeling completely comfortable about being open and fully transparent about my journey. Why is that? Why do you think that was at the time? There's a fear of, of judgment. There's a fear of stigma. There's a fear of being labeled. you know, a feeling of of vulnerability there about when you, when you put something out that is, um, personal. And what I've found is the more work that I did on myself and the more I walked the journey, the more comfortable I became with talking about it. surprisingly, or not surprisingly. By being open about my journey, it's then facilitated conversations and other people reaching out who I didn't even know were struggling. And that fits right into the Masonic context of what we purport to do in our lodges as friends and brothers. It's about establishing roots of authentic connection of friendship and brotherhood. We talk a lot about personal growth. There are websites that will say that Freemasons make good men better. I, I do not like that. We don't make anyone anything, but we offer support the proverbial toolbox of ways in which someone can, in fact. Actively pursue becoming a better version of oneself. And sometimes that requires or consists of shedding certain things about us. It's so easy to be on autopilot and say, yeah, I, I'm here for the personal growth. But then taking that step is scary. We wanna foster an environment of friends, a brotherhood of knowing that I'll be your 3:00 AM friend too. We don't just say these words and have all these pleasantries and then leave again and go battle and struggle with all of the, with life, just life in general in silence. I'm meeting way too many brother Masons and friends outside of the fraternity that are literally struggling in silence. I wish I had a switch to flip. Fix that. My own experience has shown me that I had a fear of when I would reach out for help, that I would be a burden on someone else. the reality for me in my own personal experience and how I've experienced people reaching out to me is that it's become a blessing. so anybody listening that is worried about if I reach out or if I ask for help, is it gonna burden somebody? In my experience, it's become something that. Is not only a blessing, but it also gives me purpose and it gives me a reward that you cannot get in any other way. I've been fortunate to work in a field where I get to witness, people transform, there is no bigger gift than experiencing somebody's journey and being a small piece of somebody's path to healing. Do we stop often enough in life to say it sucks to have problems. Life's hard. Life's unfair. But we're in this world of escapism, whether it's through substance, whether it's through social media, doom scrolling on our phone, We're, we're trying to curate so much certainty in our lives. I just keep thinking of this quote. when you ask someone, when they really grew spiritually, they never describe it as having been an easy time. Never. Isn't it easier to just, sure. I could acknowledge that, but it'd be a lot easier to escape chemicals, alcohol, the internet, and all of the many sorted topics one can go into there. someone sent me this. I'd like to read it. It's by Steve Magnus. We can't be alone in our heads anymore. Think about the last time you waited in line. What did you do? You pulled out your phone. Researchers found that being alone with their thoughts for just 15 minutes was so unbearable that 67% of men chose to shock themselves rather than sit quietly. We've made our inner world feel like a foreign land, and it's costing us big time. Kobe Bryant understood this better than most. How do you negotiate with yourself? That's the biggest thing he once said. But what stuck with the author was a story from when he was coaching youth basketball. During line drills, a parent kept shouting, you can do it. Dig deep. And after practice, Kobe pulled that parent aside and said, when she's doing those drills, don't say anything. There's a conversation happening inside her head. An outside voice interrupts her process. Let her figure it out herself. Too often we get in our own way, navigating our inner world. when we don't spend time alone in our heads, our inner voice becomes foreign. We learn to push it away, avoid it, and do whatever we can to shut it down. It's not always apparent or coach interrupting. It's often modern life. We refuse to walk or run without music. We won't go to the gym without something in our ears. During any moment of downtime, we reach to our phones so we don't have to spend an extra millisecond alone in our heads. What's coming to my mind is the story about how lobsters grow. lobsters have a shell and they start to grow, and they start to become uncomfortable because they're growing, they're pressing against their shell. So they go down to the rocks and they wiggle around and they shed their shell and then grow a new shell. So if lobsters were always just trying to be comfortable or going to get this or that or to, to remain comfortable, they'd never grow. that's absolutely my experience in my life where, you know, we, we grow through the uncomfortableness and it doesn't always feel like it in the moment. It sucks in the moment sometimes. Yeah. When we're going through it, it's, we, we sometimes, um, when we're going through it, it, it sometimes feels like we, we don't know why we question it. We can't see the other side. I know every time I've gone through something challenging, there's been growth and there's a greater awareness and perspective on the other side. the other thing that came to my mind was there's this guy, sad guru, he's a mystic, and he talks about some of the most miserable people in the world are the people that have been to the top of the mountain. Because when they get to the top of the mountain, it doesn't feel like the top of the mountain. And so what that tells me is enjoy the journey, enjoy the ride. I've also been fortunate to listen to and or hear different stories of different people that have succeeded in business or you know, won championships or when they're sitting around the table and telling stories about winning that championship or. Selling that business. They're never telling the stories about raising the trophy or depositing the check. They're always telling stories about the challenging situation that the team or they went through. I'm grounded in knowing that I can say I haven't been to the top of the mountain, right? Um, but that, that's not the goal. if that happens, then great. But the true meaning and true fulfillment and true joy in life is embracing every day and embracing the journey. It's hard to imagine watching a Stanley Cup champion who holds it over his head once or in some cases, multiple times. I'm fascinated by the fact that you talk to that player who'd been there, the top of the mountain for him, and yet the thing he was most proud of in his case was the sobriety was a different sort of challenge, a different sort of journey. Can you share more about recovery community hockey within the NHL? It it, you know, you said it's not the full roster of teams, but it's growing and it sounds incredibly impactful. It's one of those situations where as a kid from a small town, northwest Wisconsin town, who remembers going to an outhouse, the fact that I get to be a part of something like this, I'm still in complete awe. Going back to not just a little bit about my own recovery and being able to get into recovery and, and become sober and build that life, it's all because of that. In no world would it make sense for me to be in the same room as some of these other men if it wasn't for that recovery journey. One of the most surprising things that I've been able to experience with Recovery, community hockey and the different events that we're able to do, whether it's the recovery nights with several different NHL teams, or if it was, you know, a panel at Hockey Day Minnesota, uh, panel for the World Juniors was this healing and this identity shift that happens for these players. So everybody knows them as these star athletes who have made millions of dollars and. Played for these teams and had all this access to all these things. And yet when they walk in the arena and sometimes the same arena that they played in, all of a sudden they're no longer just the professional hockey player. They're a man in recovery, A man that's expressing a challenge that they had. I've witnessed this upfront and, and close and personal, and that has been the most rewarding and the the most impactful thing that that has happened in in witnessing the healing and. The inspiration that they're able to give to the crowd of people that are at the event. I envision that player that you described going back into that arena where they once played, but they don't anymore. They've hung up the skates they had to deal with knowing that contract was expiring and you're likely done in athlete years, you're old and you're retiring. How much of a shift in purpose does that become for someone who can take their. Their history, their persona. We remember them for their plus minus or for their penalty minutes, or they were such a presence on the ice that goes into the ESPN history books. How gratifying do you see that for some of these guys that can really make more of a personal impact on regular people like I can't even imagine how it would feel being somebody who is playing at the top of the top of the, the sport and getting paid a lot to do it and having your schedule completely filled all the time. And then. You retire and that's gone. Now what? Now what? I've heard from a lot of players that that is a very challenging time for them. the purpose conversation is something that I've heard a lot about. One person that comes to my mind is Paul Martin. Paul's been known as a remarkable man for his whole career. when he was done playing, he began searching for, I'd say, purpose. He went through his own struggles and he's been open about that. And now him creating Shine a light foundation his courage to be open about his own journey is now impacting thousands and thousands of people. When he speaks about his journey, it's different than me speaking about my journey, that's okay. He has done things in my life that I never will do, I still find it remarkable that when you're somebody that is very known, going back to my own reluctance to be open about my journey, I can't even imagine being somebody that is very known. High profile, high profile, and. Being willing and having the courage to do that. I've seen it start to shift, which I'm very grateful for. in our society, in in our culture, we've, we've become a little bit more compassionate and we've become more open and we still have a long way to go. But I see people starting to be more willing to talk about that. And, and I'll tell you if, if one thing as a society that, I mean we love to see champions and championships, but I'll tell you a comeback story. I we probably love a comeback story than better than anything. and everybody loves the underdog. I keep going back to the spiritual mafia. It's so liberating to have the courage to have a conversation with someone you know and trust. Take the mask off. Reach out to someone that you know and love and respect and they will reciprocate that suffering and silence is no way to live. And yet it's everywhere. in our brokenness, what we think is a, a big wound, becomes the exact thing that brings us together. the thing that we wanna hide from the world, the thing that we believe is holding us back is the exact thing. That brings us forward in hearing from other men and in hearing their journeys and their stories consistently, what we had felt was this detrimental event or detrimental feeling in our lives. It becomes our catalyst for strength, and I know that when we share collectively our pain, our burdens, our challenges, it releases the power that it has over our lives, and then we give people the opportunity. To share their own experiences, which in turn gives us a playbook or a path forward. The rollercoaster of life is not one to ride alone, and there's going to be a lot of great times in jubilation, and together we celebrate things. But on the downside, that broke. That's, that's so well said. Thank you for sharing that. Do you ever wish you had discovered these things earlier in life or would they maybe have not had the same impact? Is the timing all for a reason? I can't change the past. When I think about what I would change, it would be the pain that was felt by my close friends, my family, the hurt that I was responsible for for other people. So if I could change that, I'd change that. What I wouldn't change is the journey, because I had to do what I had to do to get to where I am today. when I think about being faced with this proposition that. You can continue living the way you were living, or you can try living a different way and see how it goes. I really wanted to continue living the life that I was living, and what was interesting is, is the amount of pain and the amount of misery that was there. Uh, it doesn't, it didn't make logical sense to other people, but then getting the hope, being instilled with a sense of possibility that it could change, it then allowed me to be guided and put into a community that is incredible and filled with people that are so willing to just share their own journey. How they did what they did. And so when I think about changing the past, uh, you know, I, I recently, I was talking about how science may come up with a, uh, a pill that you can take someday that, that the doctor says here, you know, you, you can take this and you can drink normally as, as, as anybody would. And I was actually at a detox commitment when I said this. And my, uh, my boss was with me and, and I said, uh, you know, I, I wouldn't take it. And he said, oh, wow. I never thought about that. the reason why I wouldn't take it is because the gifts that I've been given and the blessings that I have in my life today. Are worth way more than this obsession that I used to have about changing ultimately the way that I felt inside. And I've been able to be on a different journey and a different path that has allowed me to be grounded in a spiritual solution now. I don't know if I would've gotten there without it. It took me a long time to not only have the realization, but to believe that no matter what I'm going through, I'm not alone. I don't have to be. That first step takes some courage, but no matter what a friend, a brother, a family member is battling, you're not alone. I wish I had discovered that spiritual mafia sooner.'cause it's such a, an amazing feeling of love and support. It was right at the fingertips, but I just couldn't, I couldn't get outta my own way. There's room for more. What instantly puts you in a good mood, by the way? Random question. Music, I, uh. Music hits me deep, uh, deep in the soul. Really. Yeah. Yeah. Anything specific? people ask me sometimes it's like, well, what, you know, what music do you like? And I, I generalize it as feel good music. What personality trait is most underrated? Humility. The idea of being right sized walking through life with grace and dignity and confidence. You know, humility to me is is foundational and the bedrock of how I try to live my life I think sometimes too often in our country or in our world, there's too much of a focus on the, the big shiny objects and the, the things that I've done aspect. And so men who, who walk with humility to me, inspire me a lot. What's one bizarre job you'd love to try for just a week? Well, what what came to my mind was the, the deadliest catch and the, crab boats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love watching that show, but the, the peaks and valleys of the waves just make me think you could handle that. Well, I, so part of my recovery journey is that I've been able to be part of a, a, a sailboat racing team, and again, growing up in northwest Wisconsin. Very humble beginnings. Mm-hmm. Um, I wasn't, uh, you know, part of country clubs and yachts and, I've been given, uh, this gift of, of, um, uh, you know, being able to race on this team. Uh, we race across the, all, all the Great Lakes, and so I, I've started to really enjoy the water in big water. And, uh, yeah. I've, I remember watching, you know, the, the show up there and there's just a sense of adventure. And I'm pretty certain though, after being on the boat for maybe a day, you'd probably want to get off of it. I just can't imagine what the smell would be like. Everything is wet constantly. We might be accustomed to cold here Sure. But on the ocean, oh my God. Some of those images are just haunting. Yeah, absolutely. what is something more people should know about? I'm gonna bring it back to, that helps available and that resources are in our communities. No matter what you're struggling with, somebody's been through it before and there are resources available. Where should someone go to learn more about recovery Community hockey? you can go to our website, rc hockey.org. You can go to our Facebook page or email info@rchockey.org. please greet your lovely wife, Heidi. I will. I was just made aware by a coworker that I married up. It's the greatest feeling, isn't it? Yes. when she said that, I, I looked at her and I said, absolutely. I was reflecting in that moment, the journey that Heidi and I have been on. when you have a partner come into your life that truly makes you a better human being. Transformative is too light of a word. I am in awe of her. I'm in awe of what she does and how she does it, she's made me appreciate life more. Experience. Life more allows me to dig deep and keep doing the the things that bring me joy, the things that impact other people. And I would absolutely not be where I am today without my beautiful bride. Sol Ryan. This has been a pleasure. Until next time.