Episode 117: The “If” Philosophy (ft. Tyler Ecklund-Kouba)

Initiated in 1886 at Hope and Perseverance Lodge No. 782, Bro. Rudyard Kipling never formally called “If” a Masonic poem—yet it endures as a powerful guide for any young man seeking who he ought to become.

In this episode, Tyler Ecklund-Kouba returns to explore confidence, authenticity, and the lifelong work of becoming your true self. Because in the end, character—not achievement—is the real reward. 

Many thanks to Daniel Rivera, who serves on the editorial and executive teams of the “Fraternal Review.” Check out www.TheResearchLodge.com for more. 

Transcript

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself. When all men doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting too. If you can wait and not be tired by waiting or being lied about, don't deal in lies or being hated. Don't give way to hating and yet, don't look too good nor talk too wise. If you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think and not make thoughts your aim. If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same. If you can bear to hear the truth, you've spoken twisted by naves to make a trap for fools, or watch the things you gave your life to broken and stood up and build up with worn out tools. If you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss. if you can force your heart and nerve and sin you to serve your turn long after they're gone. And so hold on. When there is nothing in you except the will, which says to them. Hold on. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with kings nor lose the common touch. If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you. If all men count with you, but none too much, if you can feel the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run, yours is the earth and everything that's in it and which is more, you'll be a man, my son. If you were to summarize what you just read in a few short words, what would you say? To me, this is the work of becoming yourself, finding out what it takes to walk in the world with confidence, knowing who you are, the. The thing that really strikes me about it, I'm giving you more than a few words. Sorry, it'ss. Okay. The, the thing that really strikes me about it is the way that it's structured is uh, it's if, and then it's all these ifs, and then at the end there's just one. You know? Then, then what? Then you'll be a man. Yeah. Right. Manhood is, being a man in the, the way that I am and the the way the world is, is a complicated thing for some people. And this poem and the feelings that it conjures up in me is confidence. It's authenticity. It's doing the work of becoming who you really are. The poem if Resurfaced on the Radar as it appeared in an article in Fraternal Review last month, and the title of the article was Building a Man The Masonry of Rudyard Kipling's. If it stated, its long been cherished as a father's counsel to his son, a secular catechism of character. Yet when red, in light of Kipling's own Masonic life, it also seems an informal Masonic charge cast into Verse Brother Kipling was initiated in hope and perseverance. Lodge number 7 8 2 in 1886 at the age of 20. And soon served as lodge secretary. In later recollections, he emphasized that this lodge brought together Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and Christians on the level, an experience of spiritual and social universality that marked him deeply. In that context, if can be read as a poetic summation of the virtues, the craft, it seeks to cultivate a man whose passions are governed, his intellect, discipline. His will consecrated to duty. On a side note, I've been seeing just tremendous articles out of Fraternal Review lately, reading this through their lens of freemasonry. it really hit me hard. We talk about manhood, we talk about all of the things of what is it to be a man. At times in today's world, it feels like we are engaged in a lot of performative bs. I don't know how to unpack this. I brought this to you a few months ago. Yeah, I think I sent you a video about it. You did, and it was John Hurt, I believe, was doing the voiceover for it, A YouTube video. There's other great YouTube videos of actors doing it. Michael Kane, Dennis Hopper reading the poem. And at the time I was thinking about your civility project and I have done the presentation, uh, with John, and I was thinking, what would I give, what was, was there a moment for me when I was younger that. Really set some things in motion for me. And I looked back and I dug through my archives in my mind and I thought, gosh, there was that time where I was going through it. And if I can tell the story quick, I was working on a play, it was a Shakespeare play and my character was kind of, uh. Young, rowdy Prince, hanging out with the wrong crowd who was destined to become king. And he had a plan, like the way that he was gonna do it was, I know what I need to do next. And I thought I was such a great young actor and I was doing everything I needed to do. I was showing up to rehearsals. I knew all my lines. I was doing the blocking. Wherever they told me to go, something was not clicking. And. The director who is a brilliant guy, Scott Ferrera. Scott, wherever you are, thank you for this. But he kind of pulled me aside and he said, I need you to, he gave kind of nebulous direction sometimes. He was like, I need you to take up some space. And I was like, oh, where do you want me to go? Do you want me to go over here? I can walk over here downstage more. You know what? What does that even mean? What do you want me to do? And he was like, no. He's like, this is a. This is a a character thing too, but this is a Tyler thing that you can address. He said, I need you to come into this room. You wanna play with the elites, right? You didn't go to Julliard, you didn't go to London, you, but here you are. You need to walk into this room knowing who you are. And he gave me. Some stuff and he said, can I share some things with you? He shared some Shakespeare with me, a couple sonnets that he thought were useful to, for myself and for the character. Um, and he shared this poem with me and some Ralph Waldo Emerson, who we've talked about you and I personally before who I like. And he said, these guys were heavily influenced by this. And he said, I want you to take a look at this. Home and Emerson's writing and Kipling's writing as people heavily influenced by Shakespeare and what they have extrapolated from it. And he said, I need you to do this, and then I need you to remember who you are. So when I see this now through the lens of Masonry, when I became a mason and. This poem re-fired back up in my brain and I thought about talking to these younger guys and, and now girls. We have both in the civilian project. When I thought about talking to these people and other younger members of the lodge, I, I want them to have this sense of taking these tools and. Beginning the journey that never ends of working on your life and being who you are and having the audacity to enter every room as the best version of yourself and know that you belong there. I read this article in Fraternal Review while on a flight going to the Wright Works conference in Las Vegas. In fact, right now, as we record, we're in Dallas doing the same thing. The thought occurred to me, I wish someone had given me this when I first became a mason. There was a lot of good explanation. Mm-hmm. The education was was great. Something about this just clicks. I'm gonna read some more from Fraternal Review. The first stanza of if aligns closely with the teaching of the entered apprentice. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, parallels the apprentice's instruction to govern his passions. The young Mason is admonished to be calm, truthful, and charitable in his judgments. Whatever provocations he faces when Kipling adds. If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting too, he captures two complimentary masonic virtues, a prudent confidence in one's duty, and a charitable understanding of others' limitations. The working tools associated with the fellow craft, the plum square, symbolize acting honestly and walking uprightly. The stanzas refusal to deal in lies, or giving way to hating, coupled with its warning to not look too good nor talk to Wise embodies that square, modest rectitude. The poem's first movement then corresponds to the rough shaping of the stone. The candidate begins by learning restraint, humility, and charity. Charity. We know to mean brotherhood, love between friends, brothers, family. The second stanza continues into fellow craft territory, emphasizing intellect, balance, and the work of building. If you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think and not make thoughts, your aim. Addresses the temptation to idolize imagination or abstract treason. The lodge encourages the study of the liberal arts and sciences, but always under the guidance of the volume of the sacred law, reminding the craftsman that his thinking must be squared by morality and reverence. The famous lines, if you could meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same echo, the symbolism of the level. Which teaches the Mason to regard success and failure as passing states that must not unseat his constancy. Masonic writers often stress that the true work of the craft is the continuous building of a moral and spiritual temple within your heart. Kipling's image of seeing the things you gave your life to broken and then stooping and build them up with worn out tools is a perfect allegory of that labor. External projects may fail, reputations may be ruined, but the fellow craft returns to his work with such tools as he has continuing to shape himself and his world. The third stanza of if deepens the theme of detachment and perseverance in a way that resonates strikingly with the master mason degree, the master mason has faced in allegorical form the loss of everything. Including life itself in the drama of Hira Abbi. in that light Kipling's counsel to quote, make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss on quote, then to lose and never breathe. A word about your loss captures the Mason's ideal of freedom from enslavement to fortune. The true treasure is character, not winnings. More powerful still is the stanzas climactic image. If you can force your heart and nerve to sunu to serve your turn long after they are gone accept the will, which says to them, hold on. Here the poem approaches the inner core of Masonic self-mastery. The compasses, which teach the mason to circumscribe and keep his passions within due bones, also encircle a central point. The moral will aligned with the good. When human strength and wisdom fail, it is that inward point the persevering will prayerfully directed to deity that commands the outer life to endure. Quiet, patience and persevering fortitude overcome all obstacles. The final stanza portrays the man who has traversed all these stages. He is able to talk with crowds and keep his virtue. Walk with kings nor lose the common touch. This is the level fully lived external rank. Neither inflates him, nor intimidates him. He allows all men to count with him, but none too much. An elegant summary of the virtue of justice. As Masonry understands it, every person's dignity and claim is recognized. Yet the mason remains bound above all to conscience not to party or click. The closing image, filling the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run naturally recalls the apprentice's 24 inch gauge with its lesson on dividing the day among service to God, duty to neighbor, and rest. Time is unforgiving because it cannot be reclaimed. To give each minute its full distance, is to allocate one's life according to that moral measure, leaving no hour idle or wasted. When Kipling finally declares that fulfilling all these ifs will make his son a man. He is not merely promising biological, adulthood or social success. He is describing the same mature, integrated person that Masonic lectures call the just and Upright Mason, a perfected stone of the inner temple. Kipling never officially labeled. If a Masonic poem, and it stands perfectly well as a universal meditation on manhood, literary critics have often compared it to stoic moral teaching. A Victorian echo of Hellenistic ethics emphasizing self-control, endurance, and indifference to external fortune. But that stoic note does not conflict with a Masonic reading. Rather, it shows that Freemasonry taps into a broader classical and biblical tradition of virtue ethics in the light of Kipling's own lodge experience, if can be heard as a poetic charge to any young man, son, or initiate. Who asks what kind of person he ought to become. It's vision of a man who governs his passions, disciplines his mind, consecrates his will, and walks among humble crowds and powerful kings on the same level. It is in essence the vision of manhood that the craft has always and will always aim to craft. it's been really helpful to me as a young man and a young Mason. I look at the lessons that I got from my own dad, and over the years, 41 years old, we've had. Good times and bad times, and we have a great relationship now. And I think of my own boys. I have two boys now. I have three kids, but two boys. I think about this for all my kids, but specifically manhood and the younger guys at the lodge. Um, I, I want to give them the, I can't just hand them this poem and say, here. Understand it. Read this, make sense out of it. Right. You know, come back to me in 20 years when you figure it out. What I want to do for them is try and lead by example. And I, I make these mistakes, you know, the very first line, it always bugs me because when you can keep your head, when all about you are losing theirs, that is line one. I failed. Right. But I can also show that I'm working on it. And in those moments where something goes wrong, I can apologize. And that's, that's not something that Kipling suggests that we do in the poem. And he doesn't say that you have to have this complete mastery. He says, if you can do this, it's not, you must do this. It's, this is something that we're all working on and it's a. Really hard thing to attain. So when I think of getting this at a young age, I could give, I could give it to anyone. I could give it to my my boy. Now he can read, you know, he wouldn't make sense of it. You have to be at a place in your life where you need this. And when we look at Masonry and who comes into masonry, I think these, these guys are young men at every age. Looking to grow, and this is a perfect thing to share with them. These philosophies and these ideals, and this poem, and this, this article, this is a great article, fits in so well with what we're trying to do when we coach a Mason through lectures or proficiency exams, things like that. At 19, Minneapolis Lodge number 19, we just had four guys do the master mason proficiency. I can easily teach these guys at this point, the words. Um, but we come together in a group and we talk about the obligation and what that looks like in practice. I can't say it here or give it away, but the Masons will know what I'm talking about. And. We could, we could run this 20 times. I could say, okay, let's do it again. Take it from the top. But what I'm doing is I'm trying to show them all these lessons and all these tools that you're using and all the things that you're working on. You don't have to separate masonry from your outside life. You can bring in the things that are going on and take these lessons out there and bring those lessons in here. End. We can, we can get this job done, and you can see kind of in their mind when they get to that point, the words become clear. Their posture gets a little more upright. They're not so much worried about how they're perceived when they're saying it. There's an inner dialogue and an inner emotion connected with it that really shines through. I love the guys at Are Lodge and I'm really proud of those four guys who just did the Master Mason proficiency and the growth that I've, that I've seen from those guys trying to not give them this poem. I don't think I've shared this poem with anyone at the lodge. I, it kind of felt like a personal thing to me and we're friends so that the conversations that we have, I thought this would be perfect to share, but I, I'm so proud of their, their growth and. I'm proud. I'm proud of myself too, for doing the thing that I wanted to do, which was lead by example and pass these lessons on. Was there a point in that process when you could see in them that it went from just memorizing words to the meaning was in their eyes, was was coming out of those words? Absolutely. They. Struggle to learn the words. This language isn't what we're used to. If I go back and you, you already know that I've done some Shakespeare and other work like that. The, the tone and the cadence of our Masonic ritual is Shakespeare in the way that we say and this and that and this and that. It has this kind of sing-songy, a cadence Yeah. Thing to it. So that was easy for me to, to pick up. Getting the guys through that point is always sometimes difficult because we don't talk like this. We don't have this Victorian era stiff upper lip kind of way of speaking, where we're much more relaxed with each other. Once they kind of get that and they get familiar with it, you see in conversation and when they're delivering it, they're, they're nodding along there. Thinking about the words as they come out of their mouth and it, it becomes easier and it flows and you can hear the difference. And on Wednesday night when we did this, I think people could feel the difference. As you describe that, all I can think about is the word purpose in my presentation at this right works conference, again, I'm going to talk about. Over 50 million people in the world, many of whom are men, pay a subscription fee for an AI generated companion. The loneliness crisis, the friendship recession, none of that is new. We talk about it a lot, but the men who join Freemasonry are looking for purpose, and that starts on the foundation of authentic friendship and brotherhood. The opportunities for personal growth, the building community. We're going there to become that better version of ourself with others that are also aligned around that pursuit. There's so much purpose in this poem, and especially in this article, and how it, it broke it down. Its vision of a man who governs his passions, disciplines his mind, consecrates his will, and walks among humble crowds and powerful kings on the same level. It is in essence the vision of manhood that the craft has always and will always aim the craft among us. You've been a Mason a lot longer than I have. No offense, but you're slightly older than me too. Um, had you heard this poem before I sent it to you in that video? I had heard it. It had come up at some point in school or college or friends that share certain passages. When it did come up before, it clearly didn't have the impact of connecting those dots that it did. Now, what do you think the difference is now? I think perspective changes as we age, and that doesn't mean you're getting older and just smarter because you're older, but because you're, you're weighing things of what matters in life. Where our priorities, what are we devoting our time to as people? Are we getting caught up in the tertiary nonsense of the world, or are we focused on the things that matter the most as we age? That window gets closer. I look 30 years behind me. That seems like a minute ago. I look 30 years ahead of me. That's my, my parents' age. They're octogenarians. Their health is okay, but it's not great. when we ask that question of ourselves, what are we doing with the time we have while we are here? To me, that's the big secret of Freemasonry. Mm. It's, it's this, it's this, it's this poem that encompasses if you're willing to pursue this and try and not just go through the motions, not just do the performative Bs that the world is okay with, because if you post the thing, if you align with the right thing, then that seems to be enough. But that doesn't count as authentic. That's just saying the words. Yeah. When I was a young actor, in the same situation, in the same, in the same play with this director, I, I told him in my conversation, I said, I'm, I know all my lines. I know everything that I'm doing. I have studied this, you know, I know. I figured this out in, in my other acting endeavors. I was like, I know what I need to wear for every audition. I know how I need to act when I walk in the room to when I sit in the waiting room to get the part I know how I'm supposed to say hi. I, I know all of the right things that I'm supposed to be doing and something isn't clicking for me here. You know, this thing that I thought I wanted more than anything, fame and success. Was just seemed so elusive to me when I thought I was doing everything right and I see that at Masonry. I see the guys who come in and they, they look very confident. You know, they button and unbutton their jacket when they stand up and sit down, and they have all of the right behaviors of what an upright Mason looks like, and they. Know all the answers. If, if someone needs something, they, they got it. You know that I've been here, I very confident. But there's also this aspect of, I don't know why, what you're working on here or much about you. And sometimes there seems like there's an unwillingness to connect there. And like we've talked about some people you bond really easily with and some people. You don't, and, and that's fine, but I can just see it. I can, I can see that they want something more. And the thing that I wish I could tell them or give them is the, to kind of take the performance off, take the, take the mask off and dig a little deep and do some work here. And if you notice in the poem, it's, there's nothing that says. Like in, in our Instagram days, now we see these people like, you know, I'll name names like Mel Robbins or Jeff Fisher who, here's something you can do. Here's five things you can say to someone who says something inappropriate to you. And there's nothing in this poem and nothing in Masonry that says to us, here's what you should do to make other people act better. So true. It's all about yourself and you have to. Do this, you know, painstaking lifelong work. And it, it doesn't have to be a, a depressive episode where you're, you're wallowing in it. just has to be a slow kind of methodic willingness to be honest with yourself and then reveal that to, to the world to show up. And one of the things that I noticed in acting is in, in myself, and I still do it. I was like, the, these comments, if you're doing a print job or modeling job, or sometimes even commercials where they really care about what you look like. I thought I, I know everything about myself. I know where every incorrect thing is on my body. You're not, you're not sharing any new news with me. I have. I figured it all out. I, I know all my flaws. I'm coming in here. Perfect. You're not gonna tell me anything. Nothing's gonna shake me. I know who I am. Right. I had this kind of fortitude that I thought I had. What I, what I didn't realize was that what they really wanted to see was Tyler, they, they wanted to see a, a real version of me. When Scott told me to take up space, he meant, who are you? What, what do you bring to this character? What have, what work have you have you done? We know, you know the lines. We, we know you got all that. So I spent a lot of time and I dug pretty deep in giving myself permission. That's a, that's a good phrase we use in acting is I gave myself permission to walk in and. Hear the criticism, but also stand in a lot of power knowing that I had taken a lot of time and, and sacrifice and I, I wanted this job, I wanted this audition to go well, but I knew there was a huge risk at losing it. And that kind of level of vulnerability takes, takes a long, a long time to get to, and. This article and this poem, I think really give people permission to doing that work and really examining the tools that were, that were given. I hope people do it. When you said you knew all the lines, you got all the words right. I visited a lodge recently that expressed some frustration. They had a big candidate class and they did the initiation portion, almost perfectly. Where did everybody go? Why aren't they coming back? Giving our candidates a high quality performance is crucial. It's the foundation of what we do, but too many lodges are making that a one dimensional experience. I'm not discounting doing quality that is absolutely of necessity. We, we have to strive for a very high level mm-hmm. When we do that. But then often the, the question becomes, well, how, how big is the next candidate class? Hmm. men are looking for? Purpose and purpose is in the pores of our masonic, DNA. We absolutely have to take the time to talk about these things, to give our members the opportunity to digest it, to reflect on it. We talk about all these performative things in the world, and if our lodge is only. Feeling performative.'cause we say all the words right? But we don't stop and distill it down to what that means in our lives. There's where we're missing an opportunity for that man who's looking for purpose, comradery, friendship, love, and support in the rollercoaster of life. That's the two sides of the coin to me that are so important that sometimes we miss. I. Am a repeat guest on the podcast, which is an honor. Thank you, by the way. Uh, I, I don't know what episode number it is, if you go into Spotify or anything like that, but you guys can go back and, and listen to that. But one of the things I talked about in that was how I view it as my purpose and my privilege to spend time with the, the new candidates, because I know that feeling of coming in and wanting that connection. Hunt for purpose as well. And I was recently reminded of this, and as you were talking, I thought of, um, opening the door for, for the next guy, so to speak, and connecting with them at the Screen Actors Guild Awards this year, just a couple weeks ago, I think you could still watch it on Netflix. Um, they're called the Actor Awards now. Uh, Harrison Ford won the Lifetime Achievement Award. And the thing I love about it, the, the Actor Awards, it's the actors from the union do all the nominating and the voting and we vote amongst each other. You know, so it's, it's from your peers. So it was odd to see Harrison Ford, I don't know if he's in his late seventies, maybe early eighties even, but it was, he got pretty emotional in this speech and you guys should all go watch it. It's just go on YouTube, Harrison Ford, and the next thing it'll fill out is probably Lifetime Award. It's already got like. When I checked last, it was like 3.7 million views, but he gets a little emotional and he says he's thanking all these people, of course, and he's thanking his peers, the other actors, and he says when he was in his third year of college, he was lost and didn't know what to do, and he found this group of people who were misfits and nerds and they were actors, and they let him in. He found his people and with his fame has come this pressure and he said, I view that as a privilege because that pressure and that privilege has made me come to know myself and he gets really emotional and he says, the next thing for me. For all of us who have that pressure and feel that privilege is to make a space for that next guy who's lost like a young version of yourself. And it's a really touching speech, you know, not a dry eye in the house. They're actors. Some of them might've been faking it, but I doubt it. and, uh. He also has some funny quips in there about how this is a really encouraging award when he's halfway through his career. You know, stuff like that. But I thought of that and it really resonated with me because when I think of my own boys or I think of, my brothers at the lodge, I, that is my purpose. I, I'm not the master of the lodge. I have no titles. I have nothing to offer other than. I have taken this pressure and this privilege that I've been afforded in some areas of my life, and I have come to know myself, and I want them to have the same thing I.