Episode 124: One Step at a Time (ft. Emma and Andrew Dimery)

“The folks at the Masonic Cancer Center were so incredible. I knew I had the best team, the best care, and the best treatment at my disposal.” 

Emma Dimery shares her remarkable story of a colon cancer diagnosis at age 23 and how a decade of uncertainty was aided by the power of human connection. 

“There’s no reward for suffering in silence or not wanting to burden friends or family.” 

The Dimerys discuss the importance of advocating for yourself, prioritizing what’s important in life, and finding joy in simple things.  

Transcript

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Tell me a little bit about your journey. What was it like when you first received a diagnosis, cancer? it was so long ago now. I mean, gosh, 12 years ago when I was 23, and you know, was doing what any 23-year-old, you know, did, living on my own for the first time. spreading my wing, you know, living, living in the fast lane. had just graduated from art school, so all that goes along with that, too. But, uh- Living a young, best life. Exactly, exactly. and it's funny now, after the fact, kind of rehashing everything with my family and kinda getting their, uh, you know, memories or experience that, things that maybe I forgot about. But the fir- or like a few months leading up to my diagnosis, which was in December, um, I, I, I was having a bunch of health issues, you know, stomach problems, fatigue. I would, you know, crash, sleep for, 12 hours, 24 hours sometimes, and none of it connected in any way. You know? Like it all just- Did it feel like what a lot of young people do? They push themselves too far, burn the candle- Right, right I'm exhausted, good night for a day. Exactly. It's fine, yeah. But, um, and then Thanksgiving before I was diagnosed that year in 2013, I, I was in really bad shape, and I don't know if you remember, Andrew, I had to like go lay down in my mom's room for the rest of the evening, which- Mm-hmm for what a small, you know, family gathering it was was kinda weird, but- And this was Thanksgiving? Yep, yep. Did they suspect you were out late the night before, since that's kind of a traditional party night? Probably, probably, because I wasn't that close with my family back then, either. I was, you know, d- being my own like wild child, and, you know, they were, you know, more settled down, or just not, quite like that. But, um, no, so then, uh, I'm, I, I went into my primary physician just for, you know, a yearly physical or something, where they took blood. Um, and then, you know, I went home, crashed for like 48 hours something kind of crazy like that. Um, and woke up to, yeah, my mom was parked outside of my apartment building in Uptown, calling me. A million missed calls from her and, you know, she's panicking because I guess the doc- my doctor had called her immediately after. Oh. And, well, they tried to call me, but I was unavailable, so they called my emergency contact and said,"You know, you need to get to the hospital right now." My hemoglobin was like a four, or just under four, and it's supposed to be between 12 and 15- Oh, yeah like red blood cell count. Uh, so You know, I got in her car that day, and I never set foot back in that apartment building again. You know, it was a day of tests and procedures and imaging and everything at the hospital, and then finally rounded all out with a colonoscopy. And I remember being kind of in the recovery room, you know, waking up from the sedation, and my mom was there, and the doctor who performed the procedure, or, you know, the technician, whatever, was... I just have a th- this foggy memory of him being like,"Oh yeah, that's definitely cancer. Like, it's absolutely cancer, no doubt about it." Just a- There was a softball-sized tumor and a golf ball-sized tumor. So when I was initially diagnosed, it was stage III, but I've always kind of suspected it was already stage IV, just, you know, from the initial assessment with imaging. But, uh, again, thank God my mom was there to kinda ask the right questions'cause, my mind was blank. I'm like,"I don't-" Yeah, how do you process something like that? Exactly. That is a lot of news to take in- Mm-hmm on a multitude of levels. Right, for someone at any age- Yes let alone, I mean, basically still a kid, I mean, barely an adult. And I mean, I, I'll still... Like, there's no way anyone can really know what that m- or, like, understand the gravity of what you're hearing or what it means- Yeah or what it will mean for your whole life at that age. Uh, so I know that I was, yeah, like, concerned with my immediate plans, you know, my weekend plans or dating life. But, uh, I mean, the way my, my mom and sister, I think, had more of an appropriate reaction of what you'd think of, you know, breaking down, the tears and everything, and I, I didn't have that reaction. Again, it's like I didn't understand, you know? It's, it's like next steps. Are we doing chemo here just because I'm already in this hospital? Like... Did you even get to go home? Nope. I was in... I, this was Methodist, and I was there for three weeks waiting for surgery because I needed to have the affected part of my colon removed. Um, and because it wasn't an emergency, surgery kept getting, like, pushed back. Okay. It was the holidays too, so it, you know, I was... I remember a couple times being scheduled for surgery, and then they're like,"Oh, you know, this doctor, there's an emergency," something in the ER, something they couldn't do, so it kept getting pushed back. So I was there for three weeks. My friends came, and, like, it was all decorated and everything for the holidays and stuff. But, uh, and even, I mean, the way we were goofing around in there, like- Everything was fine I saw your photos, and Yeah. Emma and Andrew Demery. Emma, you spoke at the Masonic Cancer Center dinner- Yes here in April. That's me. Your story was amazing, and we're so grateful to have you here. The photos of, though, you, you really made the best of an incredibly difficult situation- Oh, yeah and circumstance. Yeah. I mean, that, that hospital stay, yeah, was like an endless parade of people coming to visit and just hang out, you know. like I said, like, everything was normal. And it, a- again, if you saw the pictures, you know I obviously had not- Yeah like, was not proc- I was not processing it yet. So. When you think back, and I know it's been quite a few years now, and you were younger, but what emotions were most prominent in that early,"Hey, you have cancer, and it's serious"? Yeah. I mean, a, a degree of, of panic for sure, but I was overwhelmed with, like, the, the what now. You know,'cause, you can choose to go anywhere for your care. Of course, the hospital I was in at the time, they're, you know, bringing by oncologists, you know, that are in their network that I could work with. and again, thank God for my, you know, my family being so closely involved the whole time, because I probably would have just said,"Okay, yeah, fine, let's do it." Yeah, whatever."Go ahead. Whatever." Um, but my grandfather on my mom's side also had colon cancer. I mean, of course he's, you know, cl- closer to the end of his life at that point, but his oncologist, Dr. Perez at St. Paul Oncology, I mean, he had been being treated, been treated for colon cancer for five, six years, which at his age, again, you know, that's a good run. How old was he? He must have been in his young 80s, and then I think he lived to be just over 90. So, okay, why not? Keep it in the family. I mean, that's another part of it that's pretty critical, pretty huge, you know, where you're gonna get your treatment, and I started there. I've, I've been treated all over the place. I could have, I could have done my treatment at the Mayo Clinic, you know, but it's, it's not easy to figure out. Or, like, even today, if I had, if I, you know, had to go through the whole process, you know, at 37, it's the s- same th- like, if you're not tuned into it- Right how would you know? Brand new. Yeah, and there's so much to know. What would you tell someone- Who just yesterday learned of a cancer diagnosis, knowing what you know now? first of all, it, it doesn't need to be a panic. I mean, again, everyone's diagnoses are so different. There's so many different types and nuances, and everyone's situation is so unique to them that that's why it, you know, obviously gets me when people say things like,"Oh, there's a cure out there. They just don't want you to know it. You know, there's more money to make in treating it than curing it." That, it's, like, ignorant, you know, in a lot of ways, in my opinion. But, it's not necessarily, like, the death sentence it used to be. So, you know, there are so many options out there, I guess. And not that, you know, I could tell everyone,"Here's a doctor you need to call. You need to go to this place and talk to so-and-so," but, like, there's a lot of options. I think you need to advocate for yourself. You gotta ask a lot of questions. Um, do your research, which again, I know is not necessarily as easy as just googling, you know, whatever. A lot of times that stuff, even if you're getting the right results, it's like, I don't know the medical jargon. Right. I don't know, you know- At some point, we all self-diagnose something on WebMD. Mm-hmm. And this is way, obviously way more serious about that. Right. And coping with the uncertainty, I can't fathom. Oh, absolutely. And as a cancer survivor today, this is, like I say, this is my new C word is, like, I'm, like, cured. Which I'm still... You know, I still don't like using it really. Really?'Cause yeah, I mean, it's- Why? ingrained that, I mean, I've, it's just all the, I think the old kinda ways we think about cancer are still ingrained a- in, you know, ourselves and society a lot, where it's, it's not, uh, like the absolute it used to be. And they're all so different, and there's so many amazing breakthroughs happening, like, every day, every year that, I mean, I think if you're not going to... I mean, it's not e- at this point, it's not even, like, fighting. It's just doing your research, doing your homework, making sure you have all the answers and everything to make an informed decision. But people, I don't know, I, it's, it breaks my heart s- when people don't advocate for themselves. They are resigned to their diagnosis and, you know- Aren't gonna fight it, or they're not gonna, you know, seek the answers or, or- Really go the extra- Is that a r- do people just, at times from what you've seen, will just say,"Well, that's it. I'm just gonna roll over and say whatever"? Yeah, yeah. And it's like, especially since the trial came out and everything, it's, it's like something my friends have known about. I mean, I talked to them about it, you know, every step of the way, but I don't think that it clicks until I've got a lot of friends' dads that really wanna talk to me now because they in their, you know, older age are, you know, they have colon cancer or prostate cancer, or just now they're doing the whole cancer thing in general. Right, or they know someone who does- Exactly or had a physical and the doctor said- Everyone does, yeah time to get, time to get serious about your lifestyle here- Mm-hmm young- Mm-hmm young man. Right, and y- there's no, there's no reward for suffering in silence or, you know, being, you know, kind of that ideal of, you know, strong and not wanting to burden your friends or family. Like, no, that's, that's no way to do it. How would you describe your relationship with your medical team? I know you had many. but what was that like? I mean, the, the folks at the Masonic Cancer Center were so incredible. I mean, it's, it's, it's funny now people, you know, calling me, like, brave and, you know, s- I mean, they made it so easy. Like, I, I at no point felt like I wasn't being looked after with the best... You know, I knew I had the best team, the best care, the best treatment, equipment, facilities at my disposal. And so, I mean, I even, like, chose, I would, I would always recommend the Masonic Cancer Center, U of M, these kind of things, over, like, the Mayo Clinic or anywhere else because they're not doing the cutting edge, trials or the, the new technologies. It's, it's not just, like, the standard of care. You know, you can go get chemotherapy pretty much anywhere, but they're not doing what they're doing at the U of M everywhere. I've heard it said from multiple people who have either been treated at a, a, child treated at the Masonic Children's Hospital- Mm-hmm or have been a patient at Masonic Cancer, or somebody in their family- Yeah the relationship aspect of caregiver and specialist to patient That's the recurring theme uh, every time. That, that's the first thing usually that leads off before we get into the trials and the exceptional brain power of the researchers- Mm-hmm the physicians, the oncologists. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I know, and, like, I know, it's, it's so f- funny, or not funny, just I love seeing the evolution of Dr. Liu and my relationship over the years, uh, you know, starting as, you know, just, yeah, another, another one of his patients, and then, I mean, it, it grew into... I don't, I don't even know what you'd call it today, but I mean, it's definitely more than just doctor-patient, you know, kind of dynamic or whatever. Mm-hmm. Which is kind of another funny uncharted territory thing. Yeah. But that's only- There's a little more of a, a vibe of, yeah, not the conventional- Right, right serious doctor. Exactly. And so it's, yeah, it's, um, it's not, it's not like that anymore, but I, I feel like, and he's, uh, he's made me feel this way. I know that he's, he would probably agree. Like, if, we've been on this journey together, and again, I mean, for me it feels like, well, I mean, you guys saved my life, but I, I guess, yeah, I'm sort of now thinking it's more mutually benefici- you know, beneficial like that. But, uh, that's one thing when it's, like, always amazing finishing up treatment or if you don't have to get treatment anymore, not because you, you know, succumbed to your disease, but because you didn't. So it's like- Yeah a good thing, but, but you do kind of miss the people you, you see every week for treatment that you've kinda, you know, grown attached to in some ways. And even now it's like when I go there just for a yearly CT, like, I weirdly miss it. Mm-hmm. Well, and speaking of being on the journey together, your husband, Andrew- Yes is with us today. Thank Been patient- patiently sitting here as we have been- chatting. What, what's the journey like as a spouse? Um, rough at times. Emma made it really easy. She has so much optimism and hope, and just, uh, her personality. It was always shining through. So I just wanted to make sure I was always there for her, just to support her Support her however I can. Uh, I remember at one point when she was going through chemo, losing a lot of weight, uh, the doctor was like,"We need to make sure we can get some more, more weight on her. Like, she's not doing well." Yeah. And, uh, as somebody who really loves gravy from the South, so I was just like,"What you're saying is you want me just to make really fatty foods for her- and that's how I can help?" And he's like,"Yes." So that was- Well, you're a natural, like, care- Yeah you're a natural nurturer. Yeah. And so I'm lucky in that way. And there were some definite rough points, uh, when you had your perforation in your colon, uh, and the pain kept getting worse and worse and worse. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and then some of the effects from that, uh, with the hernia mesh issues. Yeah, yeah. Uh, sometimes it'd be hard, but you know, really what I would do is just hug her and just say, you know,"I love you," and just kinda be there. I mean, you carried me down to the car to go to the hospital before- Yeah when we were in our apartment, and it's, you know, like a long walk from the, from outside- I bet the apartment down- Yeah to the parking garage. You, I, you've wheeled me in, like, desk chairs. Yeah. You, I remember when I had that, um, the emergency bowel perforation, you- Mm-hmm just picking me up out of bed like,"We're going." I, I couldn't move. I was in so much blinding pain- Yeah that I was like,"No, no." Yeah."Just leave me here." And then also- And you scooped me up and- Yeah put me in the car. Luckily, I'm, have the size- Yeah. to be able to do that. You are not a short man. No. No. I'm like 6'8", 6'9". Uh- Don't do this and then last I checked a couple days ago, I'm like mo- like 290 pounds. So, uh, should've been playing sports, but, uh, didn't really like it too much, so Yeah. Uh, but yeah, and then just being an advocate for her, um, at the appointments, taking notes, uh,'cause there's so many appointments, and then also- Mm-hmm making sure that we would get to those appointments. I mean, some weeks we'd have five, six, you know, sev- Yeah, yeah like so many appointments. Um- How do you, how do you balance that with- over the years, if, if I can work, I... I've worked through treatment, and I mean, it's not like for the last, you know, for the whole 11 years that I was dealing with this, I was at, you know, death's door the whole time. I, there were, you know, it was kinda, there were upswings. There were times where I could take a break from treatment or, you know, I could manage a part-time job. You know, nothing crazy, but, uh, nothing... I, I never could make, like, long-term plans though. Mm-hmm. You know, whether it's a job or otherwise. But, But you still got out and did what you could. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly, yeah. Yeah. It's been a really great adjustment, but a odd adjustment when Emma was talking about, like, the C-word is now the scary word. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, now that she's cured, kind of relaxing. Like, I kinda got used to that always on call. Like, you know- Yeah. Mm-hmm making sure I have a bag ready with some clothes or, you know- Heightened alert. Yeah. Phone's always charged, doesn't drop below 70. Yeah. And- The blue vomit bags that we had to have everywhere. All those bags everywhere. Um, but yeah, it's just been interesting kinda going from that, uh, always going and just always on the, you know- Mm-hmm on, on the edge kind of, to relaxing. Yeah. And it's been a fantastic process. Mm-hmm. I'm happy about it, but, uh, you know, it's a big shift'cause what? For like 10 years- Mm-hmm uh, we were kinda going through it, and- And he's the guy you go to in a crisis. Like, he's good at that kinda thing. He knows what to do and stays composed. I'm not. I'm not the one. So again, thank God. And I even... We even met after I had been diagnosed, too. Mm-hmm. and it was at a beer festival in Ma- So again, this was ag- I had just finished my first run of chemo, which was, like, seven or eight months, and, uh, you know, was, was doing better, so I, you know, like a just spontaneous spur of the moment went to a beer festival with a buddy, a buddy who... Like, a brewer I knew from college. You know, cause his brewery was gonna be there, and that's where I met Andrew. Mm-hmm. Like, the first night we were there, uh, and I just... It's, I mean, Kentucky- How did that go? It was, like... I mean, I don't know that I believe in, like, love at first sight or anything, but it was pretty, like- It was a pretty instant connection. Did you click? You clicked? Yeah. Yeah. For sure, for sure. Did you feel it, too? Yeah, yeah. And it was, uh, kind of interesting when she first told me about her cancer diagnosis and everything, which was pretty much the first day that we met. Yeah. I know this sounds bad, but I almost didn't believe her. I was just like, first of all, it's hard to comprehend cancer at that age. You know, like, we're supposed to not be concerned or worried about it, and she seems so, like, vibrant and- I mean, yeah, it was a party that we met at, so. Yeah, yeah. And it's, it was weird. I was just like,"She said she's recovering from cancer, but, like, how?" Like- But she has more energy than the person next to her. Yeah, yeah. And it's just something you don't wanna think about at that age. Yes. You know, 23, 24, just having- Yeah fun. You know, like, Yeah, just- Well, and I don't know what kinda people you've met at these festivals in the past. But... Yeah. Would they lie about that? That's low. That's low. Maybe lie's a strong word, but it was just like- Kind of hard to comprehend Your buddies thought I was lying They didn't know me But it was- They didn't, you guys didn't know me yet it's just a hard r- a reality to comprehend. And, uh- They don't know So how soon after was the first official date? I think after, yeah, that, that weekend in Madison, I had booked a flight down to Kentucky- Mm-hmm with- Oh, yeah within the month or something. You were living in Kentucky at the time. Yeah. Yep, yep. I was in rural Kentucky at that point. So yeah, we did long distance for a few months, which I... And, and, and then eventually he... Or no, I moved down there- Mm-hmm first. I always thought, like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't move that fast normally, but I didn't have a job. I didn't have an apartment. I didn't have anything except treatment, you know, keeping me back here, which again, at that point, I, I wasn't doing any treatment. so yeah, I went down to live with him in Louisville, Kentucky for, like, what? Six, seven months or something? Yeah, six months, something like that. I mean, knowing I'd inevitably have to go back to resume treatment or whatever the next steps would be. Mm-hmm. But for those first couple of years after I was diagnosed, like, I really did try to go on with life as normal. I mean, like, I would still t-try to go out, you know, like, to bars with my friends or, try and get, you know, dr- Could you have a beverage? Was that- I- Did your system tolerate that? Yes, yes. I've just never been that much of a drinker. I, I just, like, I would get... I don't know. Yeah. Mm. But you could have something. Right, right. Yeah. People think that when I say I don't drink, it's because the cancer- Right which, I mean, it's, I can't imagine it's good to do if you're- going through treatment for so many reasons, obviously. But, uh- Just one more thing for the body to- Yeah not be happy about. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. It's not gonna help you- Yeah in any way. But, uh, no, I mean, I just, I've, I've just never really been much of one. But I mean, yeah, I could still have a drink or- Mm you know, whatever. I would remember wearing, like, you know, gloves around when the neuropathy started to- Yeah you know, get bad- Mm in my hands and feet, and always needing, like, a straw or, um, like, I was always chewing on ice also because I was anemic, and that's, like, uh, pica syndrome or pica syndrome. It's where you, like, crave non-nutrious substances. all of these extra things- Yeah that you don't know about until they happen to you. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so, and when did you relocate to Minnesota? must've been, like, 2015. Um,'14? I think 2014, yeah. Yeah, I think 2014. Maybe, like, the spring. Yeah, so- Been here since then. Uh, moved up here to work at another brewery up here, and then, um, yeah, just kind of been here since. Uh- What do you do now? Uh, now I'm a data scientist at Best Buy, so you know, the typical brewer becomes data scientist story. Tale as old as time. Yeah, tale as old as time. Yeah, it's a wonderful story. Um, but yeah, when she was really going through some rough patches, um, what I... My brain was always working, always thinking, and that wasn't good, so I, uh, ended up going to MCTC, uh, for computer science or software development, which was good because it helped me just take my mind off of everything. Uh- Well, that was during, like, COVID, right? That was right before. So we're fast-forwarding a couple years. Yeah, I guess so. no, I knew, I knew he was the real deal when, uh, the first trip he did book up to Minneapolis, he got comped by these brewery owners. Mm-hmm. Like, he's like,"I, you know, I have a job interview," or, you know,"I'm meeting with these guys that are, you know, want, want me to brew for them." And I was like,"Wow, okay." Meeting with the- Making things happen the chairman of the brew. Which- Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's not my experience with, uh, you know, dating at that point. So I knew he was a keeper. And then you joined Cataract Lodge- Yeah number two. Yep. And what year was that? Uh, 2016. Needed a third space. That was really my biggest drive was What, you know, I go to work, I'm a caretaker at home, um, you know, try to maintain all that, but kinda needed a space to explore, be myself in a different realm. And, uh, I'm not really sure how exactly. I just k- like stumbled upon Freemasonry, but, um, I did, took the initiative, and I was like,"I'm gonna contact a lodge. This is the closest one to where I live." going there and then being able to talk with other brothers, um, and just them, the support, and yeah, the j- that, really that third space, um, you know? Did that give you a little bit of a mental reset just from everything you had on your radar? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was great. You know, like I talked about it somewhat, but a lot of people don't really talk... I don't really talk about it a lot, lot, um, mainly'cause I don't wanna be the cancer guy, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, sometimes I'll kinda talk about it, and then people will tell me their stories, which is excellent, and you need that space. but at lodge, I just kinda be Andrew. Yes. You know, just there, and the brothers were s- very supportive. and it was a great experience, and then ended up, uh, joining Scottish Rite too, so. Excellent. Uh- Andrew, did you know when you initially, yeah, decided you wanted to, to, or you were interested in joining- Mm-hmm did you know about how much philanthropy and, like, the cancer research, like how involved they really are? No. I was mainly familiar with Masonic Home, um, in Louisville. Yeah. That was a big presence, yeah. I just thought more that, like, I guess Masons kind of exist, but really they just have hospitals, or, you know- Yes like, it wasn't too much. And then, you know, kind of with the mental health thing too, like, you know, male depression is a, is a growing epidemic- Mm-hmm I guess you could call it. And so having that, you know, kind of relationship in lodge was- Yeah you know, beneficial and just really helpful, and just kinda keeping that mindful- Yeah awareness of mental health. So not even knowing, like, the impact, I mean, just how it's all kinda come back together now. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. And I, I love that,'cause it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't anything to do with my cancer that made you, you know, wanna- No become a part of the Freemasons, but it's great how it all kinda comes back home now. That really is- Yeah amazing. Yeah. When you think about 1955, LeRoy Matson was Grand Master in Minnesota. He was a Supreme Court Justice. Ooh. And he, he endeavored for Grand Lodge to do a project that would be big, bigger than anything ever before, and they raised by today's standards, doesn't seem like much- Mm-hmm to open an 80-some bed cancer hospital in 1955. Yeah. You fast-forward to today, we have the Masonic Cancer Center, the Masonic Children's Hospital, the Masonic Institute for the Developing Brain, also working on a healthy aging institute. It's almost$200 million- Wow from Masonic Charities and Grand Lodge towards- Amazing all of the, the, the full spectrum- Yeah of, of health. I, I'm not aware of any other state or jurisdiction in which the Freemasons and Masonic Charities have had such a long and amazing story. But to your point- Wow. Mm-hmm how that came full circle for you- Yeah. is just tremendous. Yeah. I know. remember hearing how much, guess, the Freemasons were supporting these hospitals. I can't remember the first number that I heard, but I was like,"Are you sure about that? That many millions?" Like, there's no way. But seeing the facilities and everything- Mm and yeah, I mean, it's just absolutely impressive. And, like, from an outsider's perspective, um, like, like a woman and an outsider, I mean, the Freemas- like, people think of the Illuminati or, you know, like- Yeah what's the big secret, you know- Mm-hmm that they don't want us to... And it's like, no, it's not. It's not like, I mean, I don't know all the secrets yet, but. I'll tell you a big secret, and a lot of non-Masons listen to the podcast. Yeah. So here it comes. Ready? The big secret is that we are here to help one another through this roller coaster of life. It is a place where men can get together- Mm-hmm and talk about everything going on in their lives, the good things, the bad things, the in-between. But it's a place and a space where we can be vulnerable, which- Yeah I think is the power play in today's world. Yeah. I know. The loneliness crisis, the digital isolation- Yep. Yep and, and men that, We're trying to get into a culture where we don't just go to lodge and say,"I'm good. I'm great. Everything's fine"- Mm-hmm and then go back to our lives and, and struggle in silence. Right. Mm-hmm. How are we supporting each other? Exactly. Just like you did for your dear wife. Yeah. Yeah. Presence. You can't fix, we can't fix each other. Right. But we can take a, a step towards knowing what's going on in each other's lives, checking in with one another, and really providing that peer support, a, an actual- Mm-hmm. Yeah a, a tangible version of the brotherhood that we, well- It's like losing that in-person, the community connection. Absolutely. I think that's kind of, yeah, where, why people find themselves feeling, yeah, isolated, lonely, depressed- Yeah you know. So it's, it's great. I mean, and I don't even know, like, interesting that everybody knows about the Freemasons, but people think it's something- Yeah secretive, dark, cynical- Behind like, you know, the, the- Yeah puppet masters behind the scenes pulling the strings. But it's like- Mm it's, a, it's a supportive fraternity. I mean, it's- Yes. Yeah. Yeah I guess it says something about the world today, right? Well, and there is a resurgence in the interests- Good of our organization because of the things we just talked about. Yeah. every guy will say,"Sign me up for the personal growth. Sign me up to- Yeah become a better version." Mm-hmm. But that requires each of us to be a little vulnerable, each of us to check ourselves- Mm-hmm and maybe be willing, to hear something- Right that we don't wanna hear, that it's, it's- Vulnerability is- Yeah important. Yes. You, pe- you can never, like, meet somebody where they're at or get w- the support you need. It, it's, it's like the great, I don't know, it's like a social... Fraternity. Level pl- or, like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. But- No, it's interesting when people aren't willing to be vulnerable with others. Yeah. I mean, not to make it sound all mushy, but. No. No, there's, there's some of that, but it was interesting the reaction that some people had when I was, I guess for lack of a better word, told them I was a Freemason. You know, kind of like- Yeah they're like,"Oh, where have you been? What have you been up to?" I'm like,"Oh, well, you know, I'm actually a Freemason now." They're like,"What?" Like, I..."You're, wow." Ooh. Like,"Well?" You know, like, I sent an email to the grand lodge, told them where I was at, and then they kind of, uh, went from there. But it's, uh, you know, all you have to do, you have to take the first step too, which is also- Mm-hmm like, you have to take the initiative. Um- I really admired that about you, too,'cause that's... I, I probably could, could relate to... I mean, yeah, like, I, I'm, I'm not the kind of person that joins extracurriculars like that to my own, I mean, for worse more than better. Mm-hmm. So, admirable. I think that's one of the untold gifts of Freemasonry, is that when we get together and talk about what's going on in our lives, somebody can relate. Mm-hmm. Somebody can say,"I've been on that cancer journey before." Yeah."I've been on that job loss or that relationship or that divorce." I can say a cautionary tale or,"When I was in your position, I sure wish someone had told me the following." Absolutely. Yeah. It's so amazing. Yeah, yeah. I, I was gonna say that a minute ago, but I, you know, throughout my cancer experience, I've... It's, it's har- it w- it's hard being so young, colon cancer. Like, obviously I don't have friends. I barely can find anyone my same age going through what I'm going through. Oh, I bet. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I don't know if you've heard of Gilda's House in Minnetonka, or is it Wayzata? One of those. so I've, over the years, you know, I've, there have been, you know, when I'm on an upswing, I've volunteered there, and then I've also, you know, participated more from, like, a patient perspective and done, like, group therapy with other, you know, young cancer patients. And, you know, they've got all sorts, cooking classes and everything. It's an amazing resource. Um, and I'm always happy, and I'm still happy to, you know, be a part of that. But, um, The, the human connection, the- Yeah being able to not only tell your story, but hear about other people's, is so therapeutic, and I think that's also a great resource to, like, how do you know what to do in these cases, or where to go, or the doctors, trials, you know. Like, I think that is always gonna be h- more helpful than trying to find it on Reddit or- Yes you know, Google or, or, you know, WebMD chatbots, whatever. Like, don't do those. They even told me that, like, right away. Like,"Don't be WebMD'ing anything. Don't try to self-diagnose. Stay off the web. Don't look up, like, survival rates." Yeah. So I didn't. It's gotta be hard, though. must have crossed your mind at some point. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. But it's also... I, I mean, j- again, from the very start, I'm, I'm also very aware that, uh, it, this is a very unique situation that I was in, just being so young. and, and it never, not for a long time anyway, felt like, you know, I was dying or, you know, there was nothing ever going so catastrophically wrong with my body at that, at that point that it, you know, even if I'm reading online, you know, 5% chance of survival in 10 year- or, you know, whatever the statistics are. Like, I, I knew it from the start I was already an outlier. Yeah. So not gonna be that helpful. But I know my friends are like... I mean, again, it's the kind of thing I would joke about. You know,"Oh, I've had this," or I've got, you know, some hypochondriac-type friends, and I'll be, like, jokingly,"Ooh, could be cancer." Of course it's not. But then I'm that one person that it was, so... Did your experience as a couple change the way you communicate needs or set boundaries with each other, or with even friends or family? I mean, I think our relationship definitely had its own dynamic. It definit- it, it definitely was affected slash affected, you know, treatment and the whole experience. I think Andrew and I both, like, after, you know, in the last couple of years trying, kind of unpacking everything. I've been doing, you know, therapy, and I know that- Uh, you know, y- it's been hard to kind of let me do things again for myse- or not hard, but I mean, you're so quick to, and amazing to jump in and try to do it for me, you know, or fix this or that. Mm-hmm. Uh, but it's like now I'm in a place now, like I can do this, you know, I can hang pictures or I, you know, do- Yeah I can use the power drill or, or, you know, fix- Going on a bike ride. Exactly. That was a big worry for me. Like, I, I can do things for myself again, you know? But yeah, it's always was just such a constant in our relationship. Yeah. So it's hard to think of like how did it impact our relationship because it was just always there. Right. Um, you know, that was part of our relationship. With a couple like periods of kind of lulls in between, like oh, promising, you know, and some definitely rough parts. Um- Yeah you know, I think when we ran out of, uh, kind of more conventional treatments like, uh, chemotherapies and immunotherapies, especially at that kind of last stage before we went to the Masonic Cancer, uh, Center, and then you were just on immunotherapy, which was manageable. Mm-hmm. But it was just kind of treading water. We weren't really- Yeah making any progress on the disease. Like maybe something grew a little bit, something shrank a little bit, but it was more maintenance on it. And, um- Yeah so it was such a, a gift when we got, or when you got- Right a part of that and part of that trial. And I mean, not to mention, yeah, like as a young couple, like intimacy. I mean, I, I can't have children, so again, it's like these are things that have to be discussed or dealt with that- That's true you don't want to, but I mean, I think something I'm really proud of, uh, us as a couple, like some of the situations we've been in, traveling, hospital, of having to go to the hospital on a trip or something like that, I feel like the kind of trials that, you know, kinda make or break a couple, and I think we make such a good te- I mean, we've always not only, you know, gotten through these tough times, but kind of Grew from them thrived or grew- Yeah excelled. Yeah. And have a great story after. Oh yeah. Uh, we tried to go to Puerto Rico a few years ago on a, like with some other friends of mine, and I used to get these dehydration stomach episodes where it would start as just like a really bad cramp and it wouldn't go away for days, and then I'd start vomiting. I mean, so it always ended up with me having to go to the ER, get fluids, kinda reset. But, uh, and it would happen like once a month, and I could feel one of these episodes coming on the morning of our flight. Oh, no. Well, okay, Andrew was already in Puerto Rico'cause he took an earlier flight, and I was traveling with some girlfriends and I could feel this coming on and I knew, I knew where it was going. It was getting worse and worse, and then you know, our connecting flight in Atlanta, I'm like,"I shouldn't get on that plane," but I did. Mm-hmm. And it got so bad that- I had to, I had to be medically evacuated off the plane when we landed. Wow. Like, with the stretcher and everything- Which you made it to it like, no one can get out of their seats. Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah Like, we've got some sick people. And, and then straight into an ambulance. And then, I mean, I don't even understa- It's like you just parted the crowd like Moses parting the Red Sea. All of a sudden you were just there in the ambulance with me. Yeah. And we went to, it was like a university, so you know, a, a learning hospital. Oh. Where no one speaks English, and you know, our Spanish isn't that good. And it was, it was wild. It was great. We were there for like 24 hours. About 36 hours. They did all the... I mean, they had me so doped up. They're doing X-rays and, like, all this weird unnecessary treatment. And like, why an X-ray too, you know? Uh, and they wanted to do surgery. And, uh, I mean, it was... I'm like- Yeah"I just need to get back. I promise I will leave here and go right back home to my doctor." But I mean, stuff like that. It's a good story now, though. What are you most grateful for now? I mean, I am always trying to think of... Okay, well, I don't want this to be cliche, but it really is. I mean, I'm just happy to be here. I'm happy I've got an amazing family, friends, a dog, a house, a jo- like, a job, a career path I, I've found that I finally, you know, love and, and pursuing. I mean, it's nothing crazy, but just, it's true, like the simple things in life. So where I may be, you know, behind my peers in, yeah, like, you know, job development or, like I, I think that I've, I've got, you know, wisdom beyond my years or, or just a different perspective on life in general, that it's not about, I don't know, like attaining wealth or things or- Well, it seems like what really matters is distilled down for both of you. Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, when people are like,"What'd you do this weekend?" And I'll say,"Nothing. It was great." You know? Like, we went on a walk. Yeah. We did just little things, but there's no panics, no like doctor visits, no surprises. It's just kinda like- Right a normal weekend. Which might seem boring- Yeah to people, but again- It's excellent like I know, I know what is, what the alternative could be. You know? It's- Yeah. I, I heard somebody say once that the trip with the umbrella drinks happens- Mm-hmm maybe two, maybe three times in our lives. Mm-hmm. But we spend 80 to 90% of the time at the table together going on the walk. If you can get good at that and find joy in that- Mm. Yeah Absolutely that, that's winning. It comes from within. Yes. Mm-hmm. Tell us about what you're doing now for work. I do custom picture framing or l- you know, uh- Fine art printing, canvas stretching, archival stuff, art repair, all of that Does the museum glass really make that big of a difference? Oh my gosh, yes. Really? It really does. Mm-hmm. It's, it's a little pri- it's a little pricey. It's very pricey. I know. But worth it. And, uh, the whole... I mean, custom framing is very pricey. I mean- It- I certainly couldn't afford it if I weren't doing it professionally and had access to the materials, but it's a luxury custom service. But no, I mean, I, I went to art school, so I'm so content on the, on the inside to have finally found a path I'm excited about. Like, I never had that before really- Mm-hmm until maybe 30, 30-ish when I'd, you know, been doing it for a couple years. but I love it. I'm, I'm even, you know, I'm... You can be a certified picture framer. Really? Oh, yeah. So I'm working on my, I'm studying for my certification. So I can get you all sorts of literature on museum glass if you want. Well, as you can imagine, we have a lot of archives here- Oh, I know that need- I know, I know. Yeah, like- Oh, man when we were here for the, uh, the event a couple weeks ago and looking at the exhibit upstairs. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. I was drooling. I mean, the first thing I look at is the framing, the, uh, you know, the installation and everything. But the stuff inside is really cool too. Yes. Oh, yeah. What's a lapsed hobby that you'd like to return to? I don't even know if I can call painting a hobby because it stresses me out. It's not something I do to relax, but it's like I was trained to do it, so I don't know. I think going to art school, I don't know. I mean, everyone's got a different experience with it, but I wish I could find more joy in, in, yeah, getting back to making my own fine art. What kid stuff do either of you enjoy as an adult today? Flying a kite. Yeah. That's always fun. Oh, yeah. Um, it- Ribbon dancing they're surprisingly cheap. They're easy to get up in the air- Mm-hmm and it's just kind of fun, so childlike. Oh, yeah. Um- That's a good one. That's a good one. What common grammatical errors annoy you the most? We don't have time. No. Um- Gotta pick one I guess, hmm, run-on sentences. Uh, I think my least favorite one right now is the em dash, the E-M dash. It's like if you put something in ChatGPT and like,"Hey, clear up this email," they'll put the em dash in there, and it's always like a red flag for me that this message was probably, like, at least kind of fancified with AI. Uh, but the em dash- Polished? Yeah, polished. Um- What is the em dash? It- Is that like code? Like a longer hyphen. you'll see that... And some people use it, and it's great. Not saying that it is a dead giveaway. Mm-hmm. most the time they're just, yeah, running it through some g- some AI stuff. Can I, can I add one? Of course. Yeah. I just heard it a couple days ago, and it sticks in my head now: irregardless. Yeah. Oh, okay. Mispronouncing things, like, um, miscelaneous or, or- um, manorisms. Never heard that. Yeah, that, I- Instead of mannerisms- She's calling out me on that or like, uh... I'm a stickler for that kind of thing, too. Yeah. My mom was an English teacher. That had to be tough. I think she prepared us really well for, like, speech writing. We always had to practice and stuff, and, and, like, you know, she took her red pen to our, assignments before we turned them in, so... You got graded twice basically. Pretty much. Pretty much, yeah. So hey, I mean, I needed all the help I could get through school. what do you wish was more socially acceptable? Oh, my gosh. not to get too off topic, I, I generally am always one who identifies with the alternative. I mean, again, I'm an artist. I, you know, I try to be original. So I guess there's a lot of, uh, taboo or, you know, stigma things that I think are just ridiculous. Um- Like what? I'm an open book about anything from, like, sex to my health to, people's pasts, whatever that may be. I'm, I'm always like, uh, I mean, I guess people would, some people would call me, like, an over-sharer or- Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm uh- Open book. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's why I got, uh, the hand tattoo, too much written on my hand. It's true. I think it describes me. Andrew, what was just a phase for you? Oh, um, my bowl cut. When I was a kid, I had a bowl cut and a rat tail. That was definitely a phase. Wow. Yeah, yeah. It was pretty, uh- By choice? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, thanks, Mom, for allowing me to do it and expressing myself- but I'm glad that was a phase, and I'm still not sporting a bowl cut and rat tail. Uh, thank you. Who, what inspired that? Was there a rock star or somebody that you said- Oh, no"I wanna look like that guy"? I don't know what it was, actually. Yeah. Um, at that point I was, grew up on a military base, so maybe I just thought it looked cool. I don't know, like Jonathan Taylor Thomas maybe had one, you know. I can't think of any cool figures in, like,'90s pop culture- Yeah that had a rat tail, though. Yeah, just really striking out on my own. Maybe, like, a Simpsons character, but- Maybe. I recall Neil Peart of Rush in the'80s had a really- Did he? He had a braided tail. Oh, okay. Yeah. And that kinda made it cool because- He was the first well, at least- I'm sure there was other- The best yeah, or at least the, The Professor had this really regrettable hair deal in the mid-'80s. I mean, I think that's one of the defining takeaways from the'80s. Yeah. The bad hair. Bad hair. Mm-hmm. Oh, their yearbooks. You should see the Aquanet stock- must have been just... What temptation do you find hardest to resist? Being an open book, I would imagine this is tough. No, I know. I mean, well, that's the, I I mean, you can call it undisciplined, but I, I'm more of, like, a f- if it feels good, do it kinda person. Um, relaxing. Like, I have such a hard time just being like,"You know what, Andrew? Just sit outside and read a book." Or, you know, but I'm always like trying to figure out something to do, you know, more studying or, just something to improve. And it's just like,"Andrew, just sit, exist, and relax." And- Do you feel guilty when you're sitting there? Yeah. Thinking,"I should be doing something more than this." Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you get a paragraph read and then think- Of course. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, what's a temptation that people... I mean, isn't always kind of the usual stuff? Like- Probably food. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Food. Yeah. Yeah. Or- Okay. Fair enough. Could be. I'll take that one. what I was thinking first with temptations, like- I would love to hear- vices. Right but. If there were more people in on the conversation, I'd go last to get an idea.'Cause, I mean, yeah, what, like, what... Is it, like, gambling or... You know, it, it's usually... Temptation makes it sound like it's- something- bad or just forbidden. It could be- You shouldn't do it You should resist. It could be the temptation to correct somebody that irregardless isn't a word, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. Having a filter- could be- Okay, yeah. There we go. There we go. Emma and Andrew Demery, you have an amazing story. Thank you. Thank you. And you have- Thank you been through a lot. I have. I mean- And you just make it sound so... That together, you two conquered. Yeah. Just one step at a time, and, you know, I just would... She was always so, she still is so- Yeah so beautiful and amazing. And so just sometimes hugging her and just being like, you know,"I'm grateful for what I have- Yeah in this moment," which is- Yeah. I mean, it's like, yes, this was, a cancer journey, but it was also, you know, the, like, my 20s and my early 30s. So cancer's always been there. It's a part of me and always will be. I mean, like, it was there for all the formative years. It's all kind of around... It's, it's part of the picture, you know? Like, the, it's made up the woman I am today, and it, it breaks my heart when, like I was saying earlier, you know, people who don't have the amazing support, or they do have the support network, but they suffer in silence. Yeah. I mean, if that, if we're gonna, like, round out, you know, takeaways, I mean, that, that's the kind of thing that... It's not... I mean, you don't get an award for suffering in silence or, like, I don't think you're sparing your family any burden by not sharing this with them. Or, I mean, not just cancer for that matter. I mean, any- Anything, right? Anything. Anything. Yeah. Life's too short- Exactly to keep it all in. Yeah. Ask for help if you need it. I think that's something- Yeah that- Is sometimes lacking and is hard to do. Um, you know, you kinda have to be humble to ask for help, and, uh, that can be difficult and, you know- Vulnerable. Well, the time you've spent participating in the Masonic Cancer Center research, the trials, and the story you've told undoubtedly is helping thousands and thousands of people in a similar journey. and that's why I do it. I mean, I'm happy to ride this rollercoaster as long as, you know, people are interested. I'm not destined to, you know, like commit my life to medicine or, you know, give back in that respect or, you know, scientific research. But if this is what I can do, like I'll say yes every time. I mean, I'm happy to do it. I'm happy to share my story. I think the more people that can hear that they're j- they're not alone, you know? And, and I think everyone's kind of aware that young people being diagnosed with colon cancer is, you know, happening more and more, and it's its own kinda thing now. And have-- the people who I've met along the way, the ones who have reached out to me after hearing about this trial, people from all over the world, and I love engaging with them. It's great to hear their story, and I mean, it's, it's not all good stories. It's not all happy endings. But I'm happy to always be, you know, someone who will listen and respond.