Episode 129: Time Well Spent (ft. Justin Ortega)

In this episode, we welcome Justin Ortega, a proud Marine Corps veteran and Director of Programs and Events for Grand Lodge and Minnesota Masonic Charities. Known for his discipline, dedication, and commitment to service, he brings unique insight on leadership, building community, and the future of Freemasonry.

Justin also shares perspective on the importance of strengthening lodge culture, creating meaningful value for members, and ensuring your lodge is prepared for the future. Together, we explore how lodges can reignite passion, build lasting connections, and embrace the idea that a quality lodge experience is an infinite pursuit with no finish line.

Join us for a thoughtful conversation on service, leadership, and building a stronger future.

Transcript

0:00

Generally speaking, Freemasonry loves to discuss the future, looking ahead to tomorrow, but avoids taking action today, action that defines what kind of future we will actually have. We basically pontificate a lot, things we could do, things we should do, regrets that we didn't do yesterday. How do we distill this down and focus on our opportunities moving forward as opposed to maybe some of the missteps we did make in the past? I think, you know, on your previous podcasts, you talk a lot about the easy button, you know, that immediate gratification. And I think at times we do that in Freemasonry as well, looking for the solution to the, I, I think of the membership problem that we're having. You know, and it isn't just a state, problem. This is across the entire world, the membership decline and challenge that we're all facing. And, um, you know, the solution is not just bring in new guys. Uh, the solution is not create a nice website. You know, I do think that we should make ourselves visible and available to people and, and market the fraternity the right way. But, in order to attract the members that we want in our lodges, we first need to address our lodge culture and make sure that we have our house in order before we start welcoming in guests. Sometimes it feels like that membership decline is just looked at as being, "Well, it's, it's just us." But it's all fraternal organizations. It's religious organizat- churches, synagogues. That civic engagement has been down for, decades, and yet we still hold that high water mark of the late 1950s or early '60s as the, this golden standard somehow. But a few of our brothers that were there back then have even said that the level of involvement, the level of, of brothers saying, "I wanna take a piece of responsibility of running the lodge," is pretty close to what it was then, even though we had a lot of members who never really sat on the sidelines of a lodge before. I think we've lost a lot of the, the reality versus our romanticizing, "Oh, I bet the lodge was full," and not necessarily. Absolutely. You know, and I, I think that that era resulted in large buildings that are now aging, and we're faced with, you know, an additional problem on top of the membership problem, and that is the deferred man- maintenance of our buildings. we also now live in a financial world that is increasing in pressure in the form of inflation. So I think that our membership now is faced with challenges, new challenges that, um, you know, that we may not have necessarily faced as a fraternity in the past. People are busy, perhaps more busy in their lives today than ever before And with everybody as busy as they are, kids activities, other hobbies, family, career, you could-- the list is super long. We need to be creating an experience within the lodge that is of such value to our members that they will want to carve out a piece of their personal time, as much of a premium as it's at, to say, "I can't go this month maybe, but I'm gonna be sure to attend whatever event next month that, that really seems appealing." There's a lot to run a lodge, obviously. When you really think about all of the layers of education, of ritual, lodge officer responsibilities, it is so multilayered that maybe we're just too close to it sometimes For lack of a better way of putting it, there is a bet by certain lodges focusing on a quality member experience, which is higher standards and a maybe a willingness to pay more for those premium experiences, which honestly has made them the envy of other lodges And higher standards to me would be attention to detail. I think there is something to be said about alleviating yourself of obstacles, you know? And, and I think that a lot of lodges are facing financial obstacles, and I do think that by potentially having a higher dues amount, that is just one less thing that you may or may not have to worry about as a lodge Justin Ortega, you are the new director of programs and events for the Grand Lodge Minnesota and Minnesota Masonic Charities. So there's the official welcome. Thanks, Reed. It's always a pleasure to be here. can you tell us a bit more about what it was like packing up, moving your family across the country just a couple of years ago? you know, me and my wife, we were looking for a number of years to relocate from California for a number of reasons. But one of the main reasons is we were looking for an area that was more community-focused. you know, as we were doing our research on different states, Minnesota kept popping up on our lists. And my wife is a native Southern Californian. Um, you know, and I think the, our biggest worry was obviously the weather. Uh, but- Understandable. After a couple years of, of living here at this point and bining, being through two winters, I think that we've found that, um, we're much more appreciative of the nicer weather when it does roll around. We've certainly found that community. I think I've told you this before, but, in the area that I moved to out in Woodbury, um, on our street there's four other families i- which also relocated from California, and two from Colorado. I think peop- I think the word is getting out that this is a wonderful place to live, especially if, if you have children, uh, with the school systems being as good as they are and all the different programs, um, for them, especially in the summertime. Uh, it was a wonderful decision for us to make, and, um, really happy to be, uh, calling this place home. And, and it feels like home at this point after two years. Your wife has a connection to Wisconsin, correct? She does. She was born in Green Bay, but raised in Southern California. Okay. There i- Okay. So she wasn't entirely unfamiliar with the, the perils of January. No, I, I think that she was somewhat familiar with it, and she has very fond memories of spending her summers here. Um, and that was a big draw for us back. So she had an opportunity for a job transfer here. You were working for the Grand Lodge of California. They were very accommodating in enabling you to work remotely Tell us a bit about what you did for California in terms of member services. About three years ago, I got hired living in San Diego, um, as a membership advisor, and really my role was, was pretty, was pretty easy to understand. Um, I would contact, uh, interested people who, um, had a desire to join the fraternity through our website, which was freemason.org, have a brief conversation with them, and, uh, try to connect them with the local lodge, following up with the lodge just to see if they needed any assistance with that. but my role really kind of progressed, um, after doing that for about a year. I worked more in special programs for the Grand Lodge, so I ran our centralized dues invoicing program. In that particular jurisdiction, the lodges don't bill their members. The Grand Lodge does that. It's a tremendous undertaking 'cause there's 38,000 members. Um, that- Wow that definitely kept me busy. We had another co- a few other, um, retention-based specialized programs, bringing brothers back who, um, had been suspended for non-payment of dues or demitted. I worked in all of those, and then most recently, I was the manager of membership operations, which oversaw all of those membership development programs. What was the volume like of interested prospects? In, in a state as large as California, 38,000 members, is it safe to say that pipeline was hundreds, if not more? Well, I was talking to 50... I was making 50 phone calls a day at its peak. they do a really good job of marketing, Freemasonry in that area, in, in particular areas of the state. The volume was very high You also focused a lot on contacting those brothers that had-- we maybe lost contact. They were no longer active on the roster, non-payment of dues. It's so easy to fall out of contact our lodge secretaries and officers we just mentioned, very busy. It's tough to add that additional to-do task To your radar at the lodge level. You guys were contacting actively, as we've actually started doing now in Minnesota in this last year, and had great success. We had a 30% save rate on some of those guys that were NPD that who had time to call them before. And in California, what year was it you had since 1964? 1965. Can you share a bit more about that? So last year, our mem- in the 2025 membership year, we had the first positive membership growth of any grand lodge in the United States since 1965. Was very proud of being on that team and being able to contribute to that. And, um, yeah, it was a wonderful, wonderful year, and I think it was a proof that some of the concepts of not necessarily finding new Masons, but retaining the Masons that we have- Yeah that's the recipe to success. We've been so focused on one-dimensional new members, new members, that we just haven't had perhaps the resources, the time, the bandwidth to contact, to, to keep an equal contact with a brother that may have a, a time commitment issue. But as we've seen time and again, if we lose contact, we can't even maintain the relationship to say, "Hey, listen, when things get a little easier on your personal radar, come back to lodge." But when that connection is gone, it's a lot easier just to say, "Well, I haven't heard from the lodge. Nobody's reached out to me," and it's a quiet disappearing act. And you would be surprised calling up these members that have been suspended and finding out their reasons of how they got disconnected from their lodge. In a lot of cases, they weren't even receiving dues notices, and they didn't even know that they were suspended. Like, that was crazy. contacting other brothers that had legitimate financial hardships due to the COVID and, and the loss of jobs and all of the craziness that was those couple of years. And, and some brothers were just happy to hear from us. And believe it or not, those guys carry a lot of guilt with them. Um, you know, they made an obligation to the fraternity. The fraternity made an obligation to them. And in a lot of cases, just by reaching out to those guys and giving them the opportunity to kind of make that situation right means a lot to them. So I would encourage all the lodges to dust off that list, reach out to them. I think that you're gonna be very surprised by the response that you get from those members. And we've seen that in Minnesota, in our efforts of doing that exact task in making contact. And, and sometimes they may not want to come back, or they have moved. We've, we've had to update contact information. it was a phone call too. It wasn't just an email- Right but it was get that brother on the phone and let them know, "Hey, we're thinking about you. What's changed in your life since we last spoke?" And, and that, that has been a lot of work, but very gratifying to make that connection. And, and like you said, you're making that brother's day it's very powerful Yes, those brothers took an obligation to the fraternity, but more importantly, we took an obligation to each other to help in those situations. But man, pride is a tough thing, and, and so many men especially don't wanna say, "I'm having a shortage of funds right now," or "There, there's some circumstance that just doesn't allow me to go to lodge right now or pay my dues." But w- that, that can be helped at the lodge level, and that conversation is so powerful and so effective so far. everything we're talking about circulates around the real necessity in today's world to have a staff to be able to do a lot of these administrative tasks that a volunteer workforce just doesn't exist for anymore. We have the relatively new shared services arrangement with Grand Lodge of Minnesota and Minnesota Masonic Charities, That's very similar to what you worked under in California. nonprofits or like our fraternal organization, hiring professionals for that administrative assistance, operational tasks like managing fundraising, membership records, c- the communication factors when I look back now, we had one, one full-time guy running all of these layers of dues and bylaws and code. The list is so long, and now as we continue to grow the team, the goal is to be able to provide that administrative support on the time-consuming aspects so that our district deputies can focus on the lodge experience, that they're not totally caught up in the, the deep weeds of some of the things that before everyone was on their own. So in your role now as a director of programs and events, how do you envision, now that we have the horsepower to do it, how can we take our existing events like the Leadership Academy, area conferences? What does that look like to you? Yeah, I mean, I think we absolutely want to enhance all of those experiences for members coming to Grand Lodge events, and I think that we have an obligation to model that experience that we're hoping the lodges are giving to their members as well, so absolutely enhancing that experience. I hope that members come to all of those events, and when they're in their car driving home afterwards, I really hope that they leave with the takeaway of, "That was really worth my time. I'm really glad that I took the opportunity away from all of these other obligations of life to not only invest in my own education, but in the education and the stability of my lodge in the future." And we've had a lot of traction and momentum in the last few years with those leadership academies and enhancing and adding new dimensions to them that not only apply in the Lodge or Masonic setting, but there are some skill sets, technology discussions that will translate into a brother's personal and professional life as well. To your point, to be driving away from that saying, "God, I'm glad I went to this today or this weekend." I know it's only June as we record this, but we are already looking ahead to Leadership Academy's area conferences coming up this summer. Can you give some examples of maybe additional topics that we're gonna cover at these things? Yeah, I mean, I think the Leadership Academy is a wonderful opportunity to, develop officers and to give them tools that they can take back to their lodges. I think what's most important about these different types of events is the opportunity to network with not only lodges in your immediate area, but throughout the entire state, and see what is working for them and see what's not working for them, see some of the shared challenges and shared successes that each of the lodges have had. And in my experience, you know, the networking piece is kind of the, key thing that you take away from those different types of events. So providing opportunities for that, prov- providing some of those opportunities to share some of those best practices, because not everybody has all the answers to all of the problems that we face. So a lot of times, just creating that time and space for members to talk to other members, see what they got going on, and share those best practices. And from what I've seen so far in what's planned for the area conferences this summer and next year's Leadership Academy, there's a lot of solutions in there. There's a lot of things to, to talk about how do we confront some of those challenges, instead of just going into the complaining portion. "Well, we don't know what to do, the sky is falling, How much patience figures into that equation, though? I saw a great quote from James Clear, If you weren't allowed to complain about this thing anymore, what action would you have to take?" I think that you start by taking an honest assessment of where your lodge is at and what your members are saying. Grand View has a really awesome function, functionality within it where you can take surveys, you know, and I think that a good starting point is just to send a survey out to your members and see where the deficiencies lie at. Members are interested in being a member of the fraternity for a wide variety of reasons, and y- I think that we have the inherent responsibility to cater to all of those different reasons to a certain extent. So by sending out a survey, take an honest assessment of where you're at as a lodge, can really help you craft a lodge experience that caters to everybody, and, um, may bring some people who have been relatively inactive in the past back into the fold and, and kinda reignite that Masonic fire, so to speak. We've seen it time and again where lodges feel like the answer to their problems has to be complicated. It has to be really complex, and if it's not complicated, that, that'll never work. Or could it really be that easy? Lodges so often try to do too much, and then do so ineffectively. And when you combine ambition with basically ineffectiveness, you end up with disappointment. So is it safe to say that we're gonna limit our efforts to the things that we can do and should do in the here and now before we get too ahead of ourselves? Yeah, I'm a firm believer that if you try to do everything, you're probably doing nothing. again, taking an honest assessment of where you're at and going from there. You know, and I think it's also very important for lodges to have a long-term plan. you know, where does your lodge wanna be in five years, 10 years? And with that kinda strategic mindset of how do we get there, then that gives you some tangible steps that you can take between now and then to get where you wanna go. But I, I just feel like some lodges, not all of them, but some lodges are just kinda au- auto-- you know, these are the events that we do, nothing really changes that much, um, due to, quote-unquote, tradition or just due to, in some cases, laziness. You know, um- Can I add to that? Impatience. Sure. Impatience. Yeah. I'm guilty of it. I know in my own lodge, we've had certain events that we all want it to be massive, and if it wasn't an overnight success, it was like, "Well, should we keep doing this?" It... There really requires a certain degree of long-term thinking or perspective. If it's an event, if it's community engagement or fundraising, it's not going to be a home run on the first or second lap, and that's tough. And in this world of push button, get what I want, that seems to be an ongoing, even more of a magnified challenge. Right, and I think it's just seeing the good in everything, yes, you may not have made as much money as you wanted to make or you didn't have the attendance that you wanted to have. That doesn't mean that it was a failure. It just means that that is where you started, and you have an opportunity to analyze what went right, what didn't, and just try to build upon that. Um, you know, the... It doesn't need to be a smashing suce- success overnight. you know, and have some patience, like you said. The Grand Master was in recently and talked about Salsalicious in Red Wing. The first year they did it, they raised 2,000 bucks. with that being the first year, that was... That felt like a big success. Now fast-forward over a decade, it- it's one of the biggest events in the state. I like to talk about Star Lodge and their hog roast they do every spring. That started out at a picnic table over 40 years ago with a handful of brothers. Little by little, that thing snowballed into a massive event I know brothers from far away that get that on their calendar and will not miss that event. But to their credit, and to many lodges, there's many more examples like this. They took the long trajectory, the infinite perspective, knowing that this is gonna be great this year, and we can do it a little bit better and a little bigger and have even more impact next year and the year after that. But it takes commitment, and patience is not easy. And look at the community engagement that they get from those events. You know, fundraising aside, just how excited people that aren't even members of the lodge, you know, how excited they get to attend these events. And, I think that it piques their curiosity about Freemasonry as well. So it's by staying the course and just incrementally making it better each year, you know, that it really turns into a wonderful event that, um, serves several different purposes for your particular lodge. You bring up a good point about the community visibility too. I'm a big believer that seeing the impact that a Masonic lodge in its community is having, that is the light bulb for a non-Mason to say, "Hey, I didn't know what you guys were about before, and now I wanna learn more information." That is far more effective than an abstract signage that says, "To be one, ask one," or some of those old outdated terms. Or I, I had a friend of mine today, he texted me, he's not a Mason, said, "I saw the video of the Felino brothers at the Masonic Cancer Center. Wow, Tell me more about your connection with the Masonic Cancer Center." And, and those are the things that start those conversations when that community visibility piece is there add to the visibility the balance of the Masonic experience David Graham, our Grand Orator, was in recently and talked about the many facets that it takes. I, I jotted down some... I paraphrased what he had said. Good ritual, yes, priority one. Beyond that, though, what are we doing? Direction and connection. He said, quote, "To be pointed in the right direction is one thing. To be accompanied there is something else entirely," unquote. It was that encouraging, inspiring, uplifting connection as well as direction. Sometimes we get in our own way. We think solely about the initiation experience, and we forget, or maybe we just kind of take a sigh of relief and forget about all that needs to still happen after that, the relationship build, to maintain the connection, the share the direction, the mentor-mentee. There's a lot of layers here, but prioritization is not that complicated. Well, I think that to even take that a step further, the Master Mason degree. You know, a, a brother gets raised and, you know, in a lot of cases, that mentorship kinda ends, we automatically assume that they know what to do, and that they know how to interact in the lodge. That is not always necessarily the case, you know? So I'm a big advocate for maintaining that mentor beyond the third degree because there's still so much to learn and to unpack, and the, you know, those, those years of membership in the, in the membership life cycle of years one through seven is absolutely critical. That's where we are losing a lot of our members because we kind of view the Master Mason degree as the finish line. That's not at all the case. A- at, you know, in my personal opinion, I believe that that is the starting line. That's not the finish line. Now we have an inherent responsibility to show them how to be productive members of the lodge, and get them invested in, get them taking ownership of taking a role in the lodge in some case, and that doesn't mean that you jam them into an officer position. No. But take advantage of their talents. If they're good at social media, they're good at web design, give them something like that. If they have a desire to, to serve on a committee, give them, get them involved with that. If they work a really crazy schedule, maybe you have them on the phones calling some older members that you haven't seen in a while. Just finding a way to get them involved, finding a way to get them engaged, that's gonna make the difference between him getting suspended down the road for non-payment of dues or just be a dues-paying member that you never see. Or losing contact. 100%. I visited a lodge recently that had an entered apprentice Real new guy. He was nervous about this. He presented the education at stated meeting. Wow. 'Cause the lodge wanted his, and they really valued his perspective. What's this been like for you so far? We, we put all these senior guys up there to talk about and pontificate and editorialize all of the things that we love to talk about. That was so cool, and this guy felt so much value that, "Really? You want my... I haven't been doing this very long, and I'm so new." And what he had to say led to some just fantastic conversation. Talk about getting feedback from someone, and getting an honest assessment of that experience, and take that as a lesson learned, and capitalize on that honest feedback. What a wonderful idea. When you talked about the Master Mason degree, whether or not we wanna believe it, it, we've, we all kinda feel like it's a finish line to some extent. We're really trying, in our lodge culture, to separate a mentor from a memorization coach, 'cause there's a difference. And the memorization coach usually stops after the third degree proficiency, yes. But the mentor-mentee connection should last until the grave. That should be a forever relationship. And to your point, I've been guilty of this too. We assume the new guy knows when our stated is. He's got the calendar. I, I think he knows he's welcome to come to all of these events, right? Or I assume you're doing it. You assume the next guy's doing it. Or we assume that his memorization coach, his mentor is the one that's guiding him through these steps. That does take a little hand-holding, and, and again, that mentorship is so crucial in those early stages to ensure that guy feels welcome and know, knows what to do next. And they may not have the relationships, you know, that a member who has been in the lodge for 10 or 15 years. They're not gonna have the same relationships with these other guys. They may not have any, quote-unquote, friends at all at this point. We just need to be a little bit more thoughtful about that and, um, not just assume that they know, because in a lot of cases they don't. you know, just like bringing back the guy who was suspended- Mm-hmm we gotta kinda treat that the same way. Yes. You know, just let, you know, kinda over-communicating to them to start the process and, and bring them into the fold. And then, you know, down the road when you think that they have a grasp on it, maybe that's another conversation that you can have. I overheard you say something in the office the other day. You probably don't know I wrote it down. Your lodge experience will translate into the membership growth that you're likely seeking Man, we have been looking so numbers-focused for, what, 40 years or more. It's just about new me- no, it is about Providing a quality experience that will, like we talked about earlier, encourage someone, no matter how busy they are, I'm not gonna miss lodge because this is an event that I absolutely want to attend, 'cause I find value in it, and it's fun, and w- what do you, what's your take on it? Please expand on that. I mean, I think you just nailed it right there with the value, right? Like, is, is my Masonry worth me not having dinner with my family that night? Is my Masonry worth not spending some extra hours on that work project? You know, what is it worth to me? And I think that if you were to poll all the members throughout the state, you're gonna get a lo- a, a wide range of answers when it comes to that. And, um, you know, I was actually talking to the Grand Secretary a couple days ago about dues in my lodge. And I told him that, you know, my Masonry is very important to me, you almost can't put a dues dollar amount to the value that I feel from going to lodge, because it's, you know, no matter how tired I am, no matter how, how much I got going on in my life, whenever I go to lodge and I leave, there's a feeling. And I, I, I would like to think that other members have that feeling as well, but no matter how tired I am and I go, um, I always leave there thinking that it was time well spent, and I'm always glad I went. Kinda like church in a lotta ways. Yeah. You know? Like, I may not necessarily wanna wake up on a Sunday and go to church, but when I leave- I'm so glad that I went. And I don't go to church to hear them discuss the budget, right? I go to church to get the spiritual fulfillment. That's, that's such a good point. I get th- I go to church to g- to feel a certain way. Yeah. And I feel that Masonry should be the same way. I don't go to lodge to talk about the building. Mm-hmm. I go to lodge for that spiritual feeling. Or to hear about the problems. Right. We still have to deal with the budget. We still have to deal with- We do deferred mai- that, that's not going away, but there's a place and time to address those aspects and be sure that we're providing that value. It ki- that visual I just had, you're right. There's not a massive house of worship or any organization that has a lot of people there that are just hanging on every word- No of the budget or an argument over light bulbs. No. They're, th- you know, they want to go get that spiritual- Yes fulfillment. What's your favorite part of... You're a member of Hector Lodge in St. Paul. What's your favorite part? Uh, me personally, I, I, I love the beehive portion of our stated meeting, and I think you may have talked about this on the podcast before. But essentially, it's a part of the meeting where we just kinda take a pause, and brothers have the opportunity to share anything they have going on in their life. And we usually go around the room and, and, you know, we see successes, and we see things that brothers are struggling with as well, and it's just a really nice way to, connect with them on a more personal, um, level. And, um, you know, it also, for me personally, when I hear a brother who has something that he's dealing with, maybe a challenge in his life, it's kind of a soft reminder to me that I have the obligation to be reaching out to him, and I, and I typically do. "Hey, how are things going with your ailing father? I heard that he had an issue at the stated meeting." It's just a really nice platform. It's not elaborate or overdone. Yeah. It's just something simple, and it's also kind of a reminder of... It's a reminder for me that I have an obligation to these guys just as they have for me. So th- that's the f- my favorite part of the stated meeting. I also love the dinner. Like, I, I love going to dinner- Yeah with the guys afterwards and, and just the social aspect of Freemasonry. I'm not just there for the stated meeting. I'm there to hang out with my friends. Yeah. And I feel like- Sometimes we get away from that sometimes. We get so wrapped up in the business that we forget that we're, we're supposed to be friends here. we're supposed to have relationships with each other. Um- You mean, are you saying the brotherhood isn't just an abstract buzzword, but is actually, I'm saying, I'm being sarcastic, knowing what's going on in each other's lives? I feel like sometimes we use brother like we use the title of Mister or Doctor. Oh, yeah. Like, it's just kinda something that we say at times. Um, when, the word brother means that you're my brother, you're my friend. We're supposed to be involved in each other's lives, and I think that is how you ultimately gain the retention that you're looking for, that personal connection. Yeah, that authentic connection. Right. If it feels hollow or abstract or if it just feels like theater, if it's just a word we throw around because it's in the script, but you don't feel it, that's a miss. It is a huge miss. A- and especially if we are gonna focus on the new guys the, uh, right now, they want that. These younger men especially are desperate for connection, a mentor-mentee, as someone that they can lean on when times are tough, and someone that they can celebrate with when things are going great. Not complicated, but it takes a, again, attention to detail. The standard, the quality experience lies in the attention to detail. The beehive you described, fantastic, and that is actually the name of the pilot program we're doing with Face It Foundation in the coming years. We've have a couple pilot lodges chosen within the state. We've talked about this a lot on the podcast before. But our collaboration with Face It is intended to enhance and deepen that brotherhood connection that you just talked about, to help us as men get out of our own way. How can we sometimes talk about the tough stuff that we are worried about seeming vulnerable or judged or thought of as a weakling? We've all got something. There is a challenge somewhere across the spectrum that each and every one of us is dealing with. And there's also good things to talk about and celebrate, too. If a lodge experience becomes solely about ju- just reading the minutes, few little arguments, we wrap up and go, We are the purveyors of brotherhood, inventing that men's support system, the obligations we took to one another. And the more literal those are to each other in our hearts versus just symbolic theater, that's where that connection's at. And these, these new members, they're smart. They've done their research. They've searched the Reddit threads. They've looked at your lodge's social media accounts. They've looked at your website. These guys aren't just asking questions and coming off of the street. Uh, a, a majority of these guys have really They, they are coming with intention. And if you, if you're claiming brotherhood and they show up, they, they can tell if it's real or not, and it's gonna be a huge miss for them. And nothing is more difficult to deal with than a newer member who shows up and goes through the paces of membership, and, And it comes back to what we originally talked about. You know, finding new members is not gonna fix our membership problem. Providing a genuine, authentic experience for your members with genuine brotherhood and camaraderie and the, the great social aspects, you can't fake that. So we need to get those things in order first before we s- look at finding new members- Yeah as the solution to our problem. Get everyone rowing in the same direction, get our house in order. You can word it however you want, but that, that's the foundation for how we will grow. Absolutely. And the desire and the want is out there in a massive way. More so than ever I know you were a Marine for what? 22 years? 20 years. 20 years and three days. How hard was it to separate from that career and be a civilian full-time? I mean, I had my bumps in the road just like everybody else. You know, h- having a, quote-unquote, "normal job" after learning a specific kind of leadership style. You know, I took my bumps and, um, you know, I learned a lot, but I was willing to adapt, and I think what helped me the most was just being excited about the new chapter in my life and being proud of my service, which, which I am. But, um, also understanding that that chapter has closed and, um, I still have a whole lot of life to live and, um, taking it from there. Let's think way back. When you were a kid, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Oh, geez I wanted to be a professional athlete when I was a child growing up. Um, I was involved in wrestling and football and track and field and unfortunately my 5'8", 160 pound, uh, frame, um, was not conducive with, um, professional sports, still enjoy it to this day. Try to remain relatively active Was there an athlete you looked up to as a kid that you wanted to... Was there some sport that you- I was a big fan of Reggie White, you know, defensive end of the Packers and the Eagles. Um, my dad's favorite player and, uh, just a standup guy off of the field as well. So, um, just wonderful If I started your car right now, what song or podcast would start playing? Um, it would probably be a Spotify early 2000s metal, playlist. Any group in particular? No, nothing, nothing specific. It's a pretty wi- Deftones, you know, stuff like that What historic event do you wish you could have witnessed? It's gonna sound kinda lame, but, um, probably the initial Grand Lodge formation in 1717. I think that there are- That's not lame I tried to pick a non-Masonic- Okay uh, topic. But you're in good company though. But, um, yeah. I think it would have been interesting to see, um, you know, the thoughts and, um, you know, from what I read in the history books, there's a lot to be left to the imagination in regards to that event. So obviously as a Mason, I'd be interested in seeing what actually transpired during that meeting. If you had to teach a class on one thing, what would it be? See, this is our opportunity for Masons of Minnesota to get to know you better. I'm a big history buff, so I will probably go with Marine Corps history. Uh, once upon a time, I used to teach all of the Marine Corps history to the recruits, when they were coming through recruit training. So I probably feel most comfortable with that material and probably have the most knowledge of that material, so I'll go with that. But I like teaching in general, so there you have it. Was that course just all about Chesty or what was... Like, what, what's one little quick piece of trivia that the rest of us don't know about the Marines? Oh, I think that, uh, you know, the, the Marine Corps was founded in a bar, Tun Tavern in Philadelphia, uh, which that particular venue had a lot of Masonic ties as well. now we'll have to do a whole podcast on that alone sometime. Yeah, I know. They're rebuilding it actually. What are you proud of from the past six months? First thing that came to mind. not just in the last six months, but for the last seven years, the proudest I've been is just seeing my son, Damian, who's seven, just seeing his development, you know, over the last seven years, the last six months. Uh, you know, he's just a tremendous young person and, um, you know, I'm It takes a lot of work. Uh- I can't imagine. It takes a lot of work- Yeah to be a father, especially with two parents that work full time. I've really tried to make a concerted effort lately, uh, really within the last year, to just really be there, What did he say to you recently? You were working on something and he wanted to play or hang out, and you, you couldn't in that moment. Yeah. Yeah, he... It was, um, it was a couple weekends ago. were around the house, and I was doing something around the house, and he came up with- he came up to me and he said, "Hey, Dad, you know, let's, let's play I only have one child, so I do a majority of the playing. Me and my wife are, are the play partners- Sure. Yeah in a lot of ways when the other kids are unavailable at that time. So he asked me to play, and I told him, "Hey, buddy, I'm gonna go finish this. As soon as I'm done, I'll get back to you." And he said, uh, "Dad, I feel like our relationship is being fractured," or something to that effect. I mean, mind you, he was six at the time. Um, and I just kinda stopped dead in my tracks and looked at him, and was just amazed at how his vocabulary- Yeah is growing, and just these concepts of things. And I don't think he quite understood what he said when he said it. but needless to say, I stopped what I was doing, and I played with him, uh, immediately. Um- Did you tell, send him to his mom to just say, "Go tell your mom what you just said to me"? Mom wasn't at home at the time. Oh, Mom, okay. But I did remember and I did tell her later, and she was equally as amazed. What's the biggest risk you've taken that paid off in the end? Probably retiring from the military. I still felt like I had a lot of mileage left on me. I could've served probably another eight to 10 years. You know, my body was still healthy. It was good. Uh, but you know, I decided to, to retire because I had a young child, and I felt that I wanted to spend as much time with him as possible. You know, uh, any active service member, you're dealing with deployments and, and field exercises and stuff like that. And, um, you know, I, I felt like it was a tremendous, I don't wanna say a risk, but, um, I definitely was doing something that I had not done since I was 17 or 18 when I joined the service. In my mind, it was, it was a very stressful moment in my life, but, um, it really paid off, um, you know, being able to tuck my son into bed every single night, and be there for my spouse who works very hard and has a full-time job. Um, you know, just being there to support both of them, best decision I ever made, and again, I'm proud of my service, but, um, that chapter has ended Justin Ortega, official welcome to the team as director of programs and events. We are so excited to have you on staff and helping with all of the many initiatives we have on the radar with regional directors, working with district deputies, the corporate board, the progressive line. So excited about the future. I am honored to be here. when I moved to this state, I always wanted to, uh, potentially join the Grand Lodge as an employee. I am very fortunate for that opportunity, and, uh, I'm ready to get to work for not only our members, but, um, you know, the communities in which they are located.