Episode 132: What Happens Next? (ft. Mike Sanford)

Michael Sanford is a product development specialist, next-generation data center expert, Freemason, and family man. 

Today we get to go through some of his professional background, life & lodge perspective, and the opportunity ahead of us within the overall Masonic experience. 

“I think that if more of us were to explore that next level down…it furthers the bond that we have as Brothers. If we truly understand what's in that ritual, what we agreed to, what we signed up for, it's quite impactful.”

Expect to learn the “why” behind the importance of asking “who are my neighbors,” spending time learning the actual meaning behind all the words we memorize and repeat as Masons, that it’s okay to ask for help when needed, the pursuit of personal growth, the rush of data centers springing up, and much much more…

Transcript

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A lot of headlines over the weekend about data storage. Amazon, Google paying an exorbitant amount of money to SpaceX. Can you explain it to me like I'm a child why these data centers of epic proportion are necessary? how does this work exactly? Certainly. There are a number of different types of data centers to begin with. Um, some of them are used for traditional cloud storage or services, things like, um, yeah, your favorite photo, um, storage, so I can access those photos wherever I am on the planet, as long as I have good cell service or good Wi-Fi. those are typically built to reach the users, so they're built in different places in close proximity to where there are a lot of people. Um, there are also enterprise-style data centers, um, things that do a, a, a fixed workload or, or have a limited scope in what they do on a day-to-day basis for a particular end user operator. There's also a surge in the development around AI-focused data centers, um, and those are really of, being built in two different flavors, um, one being, uh, inference. Um, an inference data center is where you can go, and you can type in, Generate me a picture of a cat," and it will do its best to generate a picture of a cat. Now, the question really becomes, how does it know what a cat looks like? And that's an AI training data center, and those are built, less focused around where there are people, uh, because they don't need to be in close proximity to their end users. But they are fed an immense amount of data that is then processed in order to develop the algorithm. Um, and so these, you would feed it, um, pictures of cats, hundreds of cats, thousands of cats, millions and billions and trillions of cats, and you would tell it, "This is a cat." And then that model learns what a cat looks like. That way, when you ask a, a, your favorite AI-based platform, "Show me a cat," it has learned over a period of time what that looks like Is there any chance that the consumption of said services is gonna outdo the growth? Are, are w- are we building things as far as the data centers? pi- the pace right now just seems It's, it's greater than anyone could have anticipated. Truthfully, the data center boom started nearly two decades ago. When I started in the industry, a big data center, uh, was 10 to 40 megawatts, which is still sizable by, by many regards. Today, a large data center could be upwards of a gigawatt. truly orders of magnitude larger than what had ever been built 10 years ago. On top of that, the compute capability inside those data centers is incredibly more efficient from a power usage to output, um, standpoint. And what that means is we're, we're getting more out, but we're still building bigger and bigger and more and more. And that's because as these models, as these platforms, as these products and services become more accessible to a user like you or me, we also use it more. That lowering that barrier of accessibility encourages us to use it more, and so as a result, we have to build more and faster and in more places to better serve those user, users Mike Sanford, you are the senior warden at Northeast Winslow Lewis Lodge in Osseo, and I appreciate your expertise on this subject because there's so many questions. there's so much going on in the world with this right now Tell us a bit more about your professional background and what, what you've done and where you've been and how you, how you feel about all of these moving parts. Absolutely. I work in onsite power, in energy, and, um, I started, uh, in energy about 14 years ago. Um, I have a degree in automotive engineering. I assumed I was gonna go work for a major automotive manufacturer and design something terribly boring like door handles or spoilers, um, on the back of a minivan. And, um, I had a, a friend who invited me to come see, uh, the facility he worked at, down in Mankato. And the hiring manager, uh, for that role I was exploring was very smart. The first thing he did is he walked me onto the shop floor, and he walked me past their largest product. It was a 95-liter engine with six turbochargers sitting on top, and he said, "This makes about 5,500 horsepower." I said, "I can do this. This sounds like a lot of fun." And I've been hooked on energy ever since. What was that thing he sh- what was that for? It was a generator set. So it was a- That's it? Uh, yeah, that's all it does. Okay. It's a, it's a generator set. It, it's a big diesel engine that consumes hundreds of gallons of fuel an hour, and in return spins an alternator to make electricity. They're used in hospitals, data centers, and many other applications. When I started, it was painful to talk to my friends and family about what I did for a living. I'm an engineer in backup power, and I would tell them I work for Cummins, and they would say, "Oh, the, the truck engine company." And many times, because of how challenging that discussion was, explaining what backup power was, I would just say, Yeah." Sure. "The truck engine company, that is what I do." Well, today, energy and resilience related to power availability is a dinner table discussion. You see it on the news as you read about data centers and the impact that they're having on the grid and elsewhere. It's, uh, it's a conversation that has permeated every conversation I have with my friends and family now, and it's changed so much in that period of time I know you're about to start a new opportunity. You had mentioned the first 90 days and how that onboarding process can be tricky. always exciting for a new opportunity, but then it feels like you're starting over, and, and that bleeds into the lodge experience when six months from now you're going to be the master or president of your lodge, How do you see those two things in sort of a parallel existence? There definitely is a parallel between the two. Um, as I step into my, my new role, one of the major things I have to consider is that, is that on-ramp, just as you explained. How do I kind of promote myself within the organization? How do I set the strategy for what I'm gonna be doing over the next months and years? How do I earn the rapport and build that rapport with my new colleagues in that space? And how do I put tactics, programs, initiative, initiatives into place that I'll be able to execute over the next few weeks in the role into years down the road? The comparison with stepping into the East, poses one major difference, specifically around timing. Um, your time in the East is relatively finite. Um, you have a, a, a relatively short window in which you're actually sitting in the East. Now, that doesn't mean you don't have influence as you lead up to that role, as you lead up to that opportunity. but you don't have 90 days to assimilate into the culture or to build that rapport. You needed to have been doing that, um, with those brethren up until that point, something that I'm working very hard at now in order to set that strategy in place, those initiatives in place, so that we can pick things up and go. You're starting right now, and that's not an effort to somehow eclipse the current master and what's going on at the lodge, but to effectively get things in place, it's literally a six-month transition as you're building up to taking over, and even more important than that first 90 days in a corporate job. Without a doubt. Um, and I would say it started, last year at the Minnesota Masonic Leadership Academy, where I was a junior warden at the time, and one of the first things that we sat through or participated in was build your calendar for your year. And we were all handed a, a template, uh, to look at, and I found myself staring at it, going, "What do I put on this? What, what do we do today in that, in the lodge? What do I want to see us doing, and, and where are the-- where's that opportunity to grow?" And that's two years away. Exactly. I was gonna say, that, that's, that's so much more than starting now. Um, it's starting a year ago or a year and a half ago at this point. working through who I anticipate being in that line in that year and, and working diligently with them over that year to year and a half period to ensure that we're aligned on not just what I wanna see, but what the current master wants to see, and what my senior and junior wardens will want to see when it's their time in the East Generally speaking, does it ever feel like we have an excessive number of events on our Masonic calendar versus just slowing down enough to get to know one another, reflect on our core values, and m- maybe most importantly, just know what's going on in each other's lives? Do you mean does that calendar that I put together a year ago at the Masonic Leadership Academy look overfull already? I didn't mean to ask it that way, but you know what? Yes. Is it feel-- Is it, is it pa- How do you find a happy medium, or how important is it to find that happy medium? As I sat there and as I started penciling things in, these are the things I know. We have stated meetings the first and third Monday of every month, except for a few months where we are not having stated meetings. We, we previously went dark in the summers, and we're still evolving out of that. I know that we have an annual charter night event in April. I know that we have traditionally a picnic in the summer. And as you start placing all of those things, you do find that there's something going on just at the Blue Lodge almost every week of the month, almost every week where there's something. Unfortunately, one of the challenges is, is stepping away from those feeling like business obligations and stepping into that opportunity to explore that brotherly love piece and that, that social aspect. Um, it, it is critical that the brethren of the lodge feel like they, they know each other, feel like they're, they're friends, they're brothers. And when you're showing up to a grocery bagging event, because you, you don't want to be that person on the following stated meeting that says, "I, I couldn't make it. I wasn't there," it feels more like a business obligation than it does something you're doing to be there with your brothers. I think it is important to continue doing social events, but working diligently, as you said, to, to not overextend all the brethren of the lodge. A healthy balance of social events and the critical functions as well. I think starting with building that calendar is the first step in identifying that maybe you have a problem that you need to work on, and maybe that problem is too many events. And that's hard to do because you inherit a lot of events that are staples that you do every year. You have your charter event at Northeast Winslow Lewis in April, the summer picnic. There's a handful of things that everyone knows are going to be plugged in year after year, no matter who the leader of the lodge is It's a complex equation on how we identify ways to spend more time sowing the seeds of friendship, the true brotherhood piece I get misinterpreted a lot, get feedback from listeners of the podcast that say, "Well, meetings have to be performative." That's true. A stated meeting is a list of performative things that we do to conduct business But when there's a lack of knowing what's going on in each other's lives, and we're not giving ourselves the opportunity to spend time together, we can't let the performative aspect of things that are, that obviously things we have to do become the way that we interact with one another all the time. Am I even making sense right now? I'm just rambling. The performative aspect, especially as relates to things like ritual, opening and closing the lodge, the degrees, are crucial. They're, they're critical to, to who we are as Masons. Um, if we didn't want to do those things, there are hundreds of other organizations that are involved in their local communities that we could go and join. But most of us, I would say a, a v- majority of us, took the obligation and made the decision to join the Masons for more than that. To be part of that ritual piece and to explore that social aspect, to build that fellowship, um, with their brothers, to build that support group that's so desperately needed among men right now, um, without a doubt. You think so? Without a doubt. Say more. I think that, um As I look at, as I look at my, my peers, my peers both in the lodge and, and elsewhere, um, there is a, a, a miss in our communities today for men and others to, to, to, to bond with a group and build a, to build a network, um, a, a support structure that supports them in their day-to-day. It's something that extends beyond just the business, beyond just moving through the ritual and the degrees. Um, but you have to make the time and space for it. You have to put yourself out there to engage with the other brothers of the lodge in order to actually build that network. It's not something, as you said, that is built just showing up and moving through the degrees or through the ritual. You have to make the time. I'm excited that Northeast Windsor Lewis historically has a number of good social events. Uh, we do a, a, a pizza and, and live music event at a local establishment, which is a, a great way for the brethren to come together, enjoy social time with o- one another. There's no ritual involved unless you like your pizza a very specific way. And we all show up in our lodge shirts, so the community sees us that we're there, and that we're, we're, we're doing our best to be engaged in the communities. There's so many other interesting ways to do that while still building that connection The community visibility piece is important on, on two fronts. The number one request of new young men seeking more information, is: How can I give back to the greater good? If I join this lodge in my community, will there be an opportunity to do something to help those in need? There's a very service-oriented mindset, which flies in the face of what we hear in the news every day, that everyone's so selfish, and There's definitely a desire to get outside of the four walls and do something to move the needle to help those in need, whatever that might look like You and I talked about a line from the Grand Orator who said, more or less, "Would your community miss you or notice if your lodge wasn't there?" My God, that hit like a ton of bricks To reflect on one of the first things you shared here was there, there's a growing appetite to be involved in the communities. It, it's certainly one of the things that drew me to Masonry. It, it's why I sent that message, and was ultimately connected with the, with the brethren at Newell. I wanted to find ways to better engage my community. Although I had a day job that kept me engaged in the industry that I work in and, and had me traveling around the U.S. and around the world to solve complex technical challenges, I found myself at home thinking, "Who are my neighbors? What do they do? What, what do they need? What are the people in my immediate bubble looking for?" And, and so I, I viewed, you know, the, the Masons as one opportunity, um, to explore that, and it came with another interesting piece in the, in the sense of ritual and otherwise. Um, I, I think that that is-- that, that's what drew me in. Now, to your point, and as you said, the, the Grand, the Grand Order's comment there was certainly on point, and it tugs at my heart to think about it. Would Osseo or Maple Grove or the surrounding area feel it if Northeast Winslow-Lewis Lodge just packed up tomorrow? Certainly, there's some things that we do on a day-to-day basis where we interact with our community. We head to the local establishment immediately across from Lodge to enjoy in some fellowship after meetings. We host that picnic in the park event. Maybe some people see us there. But would the community feel it? Would they, would they think about the programs that we support and wonder, "How are we gonna do that without those guys from Newell?" I suspect many brethren who are li-listening to this, I'm hoping are asking that question about themselves and their own lodge and wondering, "How can we do that better? How can we be better engaged? How can we do more with our communities, not just at or in them?" So is the answer to do more, or is it to do some select events or opportunities that really make an impact and do those well? I, I feel like the, the default is, "Uh-oh, you just asked a question that's very impactful, so we better add a dozen things on the calendar." I, I don't-- And I don't know where this lands, but I... What are your thoughts? I think it's better to do fewer things, but do them well. Spend the right energy in the right place. Put people on activities, programs, initiatives where you can get a strong return on that time and energy investment. We only have so many active members of the lodge, and everyone brings so many good ideas, but we can't do all of them. We have to learn that it's okay to say, "No, we're not gonna take that on," even though it is an objectively important task or opportunity. But we need to be able to focus on the things that allow us to best engage and best use those resources that we have available to us. So no, it's not just put more things on the calendar. It's put the right things on the calendar. Is it safe to say put the right things on the calendar and also take an infinite perspective, a long-term approach? This may not be the biggest community event on our first or second outing. And as we heard the Grand Master talk about things like Salsalicious and Red Wing that started small, a lot of these events started around a picnic table, and the Lodge had the foresight and the endurance to say, "We're gonna build on this a little, little bit every year." I think that is really important to put things into place that you can, you can see, you can vision growing with the Lodge, not just over the one year that you're in the East, um, but over a, a, a decade or more. And that's not to say that everything has to be perfectly planned out for the next decade. But I wanna make sure that the things that we're executing at the Blue Lodge level are things that we can see growing and expanding over time. We wanna build those long-term relationships with the communities. Again, we, we want them to, to grow with us, um, a- as we bring new brethren into the Lodge. We, we want to see-- We want them to see these strong programs that we have in place that are, that are, um, locking arms, you know, hand-in-hand with our communities. And it's not just a matter of, "Hey, look at us. We did a, we did a solid for the community." It's because this is something we took an obligation to do to help those in need. With, not at. I was-- I, I tried to be very specific in my, my verbiage, um, when I said it's important that we're doing things with the community, not at the community. Um, it's one thing to write a check. Love writing checks. Um- It's never a bad thing. It's ne- Yeah, never. Hard- hardly a bad thing. Sure. Um, but it's so much more impactful when you're, when you really are working on programs, on initiatives, on things that support but have the engagement. Um, I, I, I don't like seeing Lodges do programs, um, where maybe they're just raising some dollars and then handing that as a, as a check over to another organization. Certainly, there's an, there's an application for that. I prefer to see programs where we are, uh, actively engaged. It's, it's everyone has to come to the table. You get better buy-in from the community as well as the brethren when they see that we're doing more than just selling raffle tickets. When you mention the relationship piece with the community, does that also bleed into the lodge? What, what are you inheriting and passing on from one group to the next? And, and finding those things that you can easily pass on to the, the guys that follow you into the officer line in the years ahead. very tricky, but it can be done. This is tricky. Um, you have to have, be in very good communication with the master that comes before you, as well as your senior and junior wardens to ensure that the, the programs and initiatives you're putting in place, um, are things that they're interested in furthering as well. I think one of the quickest way to see something, uh, to see a program die is to not have buy-in at the broader lodge level, because then when your time in the East is up, it just fizzles out, and I, I don't think that's healthy. It, it... The, the investment that was put into that is something that should realize gains over years, um, not just in that one period of time when you were there. So, as you said, it's, it's tricky, and it's important that you're having those crucial conversations ahead of your time in the East. And it plays right back into six months ahead of you going into the... You're having these conversations with your current officers that you're working with now, thinking about the now, thinking about the future, and working together to iron out what some of these really core things will be that the lodge will do and commit to for the next several years, so that we're not just doing one thing, and then the leadership turn, turns over, and then, well, now we're gonna start a new thing. It's never bad to be trying new things, but there's so much more momentum to be had within the lodge when everyone gets on board, and you have that item, you have that event on the calendar a year in advance. Block this off. Do everything you can to keep that date open next year, and we're gonna do this amazing thing as a lodge, and we, we want your, we want your participation because it's even more gratifying to do that when we have our families and friends with us, and we are moving the needle in that community. it's a crucial conversation to have, maybe in an ongoing way, the handful of things that we commit to do both currently and in the future, we're going to do well because the leadership line turns over like clockwork every year And it's a tough balance. It is a balancing act of that almost what feels like an excessive number of, of events, especially when you add concordant bodies and, and other hobbies and other involvements our members and families have. Are we making Masons or are we making members? I think when we talk about making Masons, there's so many pieces that go into that. And certainly there's the obligation, um, and there's that, in some ways kind of an extension of that, the, the performative piece, the ritual and, and the, the words. Um, and that is important to us being maintenance-- Masons. I think one of the pieces that we often miss is the, the next level down, the, the meaning of those words. I recall when I was working on my EA proficiency I was first being taught to memorize the words, the words and the correct order of the words. And occasionally, you got an explanation of what a particular word meant because it's not a word we use on a day-to-day basis. Um, but the depth of the learning for myself, and I suspect for many, kind of ends there at learning the right words in the right order and not necessarily what they mean. I think that if more of us were to explore that next level down, it furthers that bond that we have as brothers. If we truly understand what's in that ritual, we-- what we, well, what we agreed to, what we signed up for, it's quite impactful. And I'm not gonna say I'm an expert by any means, but it's something that, uh, should extend beyond more than just knowing the words for that particular ritual or, or, or on that particular day I ran across an article about W.L. Wilmhurst He wrote, quote, "For those who see Masonic science as nothing but ceremonial and social pleasantries tempered with elementary ethics, my interpretations will be discredited as fanciful. For such, however, they are not written. They are meant for the happily increasing number of brethren who realize the craft to be the custodian of the knowledge of oneself He goes on to talk about the profound truths of spiritual core values and these things and how they're demonstrated to us. But I, I can't get beyond the knowledge of oneself. It's not about me changing you. It's about me looking in the mirror and saying, "How can I be better? How can I take these things that I've obligated myself to do every day?" I think it's about having the tools. It's about having the tools to improve ourselves. Not, not being made better by showing up, uh, to every stated meeting. It's not being made better by knowing the proficiency or knowing the degree. Just 'cause you learned all those words correctly. Right. That's right. But it's being made better by one's own self-improvement. And one of the best things, I think, that masonry does is it empowers us with those tools. But you have to pick 'em up. You have to put in work. I think the sense, the, the idea that the, the availability, the presence of the tools implies that there's work to be done We don't make anyone anything, but we do provide those tools if each and every one of us are willing to work with them every day This has been a discussion, indirectly or directly, that's covered that your lodge experience, the lodge experience you provide your members, will translate into the membership growth that you're seeking. We know why this is of interest to new members. The relationship business is a big one to invest in. When we bring new members into the lodge, which is certainly something that we and most lodges want to do, this is a, a period where, where the, There are people in the communities that want this type of experience. So when they show up on that night for their first degree, and they're received by a, a great group of brothers of that lodge, they go through the degree, they get a little bit of education that evening, although absorbing it is a challenge. It's overwhelming, yeah. It's overwhelming. And then typically, you know, the, the lodge closes for that evening. Maybe they go out to dinner, uh, a little informal celebration. What happens next? What do we do with those new brethren next? Are we providing the right foundation of things that they were looking for? The education, the knowledge of the working tools, and so much more. The social or the brotherly love aspect. Are they growing to, uh, are they-- can they see that they're gonna have that opportunity to grow with that, that smaller community that they're, they're now forming? Are they also gonna have the opportunity to, to engage in their broader community, which is likely something that they entered for? If we haven't set that foundation appropriately, they walk right out that door that they walked into on that night, and we lose them as members. Just as I like seeing strong programs that grow incrementally year over year, I don't like to give up ground on members either. I like to see them broaden the lodge and see the wonderful things that we're doing in each of those detailed aspects, and I want them to stick around because it's there. And then I want them to be some of our best recruiters to bring more brethren into the lodge because they perceive the value, they experience the value, and now they wanna share that value And it's a culture change to get out of the mindset that simply more members is the answer. The answer is retention. The answer is providing a quality experience. Because the opposite of what you described is we have a new member, he went through his first degree. Uh-oh, we have to panic to fit a degree schedule that we self-imposed on ourselves. So instead of taking the time to get to know and digest what all of this means, we're gonna put him through the gauntlet. Just memorize the words. Don't worry about what they mean. We'll get to that later, but will we? Lodges that have slowed this down, that are taking a wide gap between the degrees, I know of one lodge, more than one lodge, they'll hold their EA degree. They'll take that new EA on the road the next two, three months and go see it, talk about it, all the while working on the proficiency. W- why are we in such a rush? That three-month degree cycle was born out of the necessity 100 years ago when there was a little higher volume of interest. They had to accommodate somehow. There's nothing saying that in this world where men are disconnected, isolated, and lonely, and wanna forge the c-- wanna forge the friendship, the brotherly love you referenced. That's a slow process, man. We it is slow and steady wins the race. Now I'm just full of cliches. You're absolutely right in the sense that that, that is and should be a slow process. I think that generally we've put a big emphasis on, on the speed of that process, on, on getting folks through. By putting that, that key performance indicator on number of members and shortening the time to get through, that means we, we end up kind of sacrificing those other things. And you're right, the, the, the meaning is one of the things I, that I see often sacrificed. The other is that social aspect, is that brotherly love aspect. Um, I strongly dislike the feeling of seeing a brother on the night of his Master Mason degree and being on the sidelines and thinking, "What's his name again?" Oh, man. You want to have built a strong connection among all those brothers in that room. That takes time. Think about our busy schedules. It is hard to carve out time for social events, but it has to be done so that you don't have that feeling, you don't have that miss. And again, that's the thing that will retain that brother and keep them coming back, because now they feel a connection and accountability to their fellow brethren, and not just to maybe the Worshipful Master or the mentorship committee who's running them through their proficiency as fast as they can I think it's nearly impossible to build a relationship after the degree process is over. If you don't know that brother well, and you're scratching your head that night saying, "What's his name again?" then you lose some of the obligatory interactions that we have. So if that's a hollow relationship going into the degree cycle, that's even maybe what? Double, triple the work to get to know him better, deeper after the degree cycle is over. And we have a huge area of opportunity on that even in our workplace we probably have that opportunity too. And this is w- one of the reasons I'm, I was excited to hear about the changes to the one-day to masonry. Keeping that first degree in the lodge, I, I think is a healthy move for all the lodges. One, it keeps us maybe a little bit better at our ritual work, which is important. Mm-hmm. Multipurpose. But also ensuring that they're bought in, as opposed to just sending that prospect to a one-day event. They get pushed out the other side, and again, you have that feeling. They show up for their, their first meeting that night, and you're going, "Who's that? They're, that's a Master Mason? I, I don't know that n- I don't know, I don't know his name." so I think that that push, that change is very healthy, and I'm very optimistic about that going forward. Who would you say has been influential in your Masonic journey? I'm gonna give all the credit to many of the brethren at Northeast Windsor Lewis. without calling anyone out specifically right away, I'm gonna say that they were all in one way, shape, or form influential to kee- you know, to getting me there, um, on, on the nights of the stated meetings, on being willing to step into a, a leadership capacity. Um, everyone's contributed in, in some way, shape, or form, whether it's helping with the proficiency work, whether it's being willing to meet with me to work on one of my hobbies when I needed an extra hand. I had a, an accident, um, last summer. I fell and broke my elbow. I don't recommend breaking the elbow- Oh my God mind you. No. Um, but I fell and broke my elbow, and, and unfortunately, I was in the middle of a project, um, around, around my house. I was building a new garden shed. And, um, I wanted to keep the project going, and so I put a call out to the brethren and just said, "Hey, I, you know, I really need this to keep moving forward, but I can't climb on top of it anymore. I can't-- I don't have the strength in that arm." And I had a rush of brothers come out and help, and it's that type of response that, that influences me and, and makes me want to keep coming back, as well as bringing in additional prospects or, or new people, um, to experience it. And when you feel that support, you feel that love, how much does that motivate you to wanna reciprocate? It's huge. I mean, it, it's, it's, um, it's hard to describe, but you, you're absolutely right. It, it's huge. And I think that, um, one of the challenges we have is we don't ask for help like that, um, whether it is on something physical, tangible, like, uh, building a garden shed, or whether it's something less physical, like I'm going through a job-- a, a career change right now. Being willing to reach out, because we're all going through stuff, but being willing to reach out and say, "Hey, I'm going through this right now. You've probably been through this too. What pointers do you have?" That's big. What's the worst advice that you've ever been given? Oh, man. We usually ask for questions of the best or the most, but b- you've been a, you've been a global executive your entire career. I'm just curious, d- were you ever given a piece of advice and you look back and think, "Oh my g- what was w- how did I follow that?" The worst advice I've ever given, unfortunately I've used this example a, a number of times. It was from a, a leader in my, in my day to day, and he said, um, I don't like prioritizing things, because when you prioritize things, that means some things don't get done." And I said, "Yes, that's why we prioritize things. It is important to ensure you know what your priorities are so you can put the energy into those things so they get done, and they get done well. And sometimes that does mean there's some stuff that doesn't get done. That's okay. We call it a gap. It's a gap. Sometimes a gap is just a gap." How long did you follow that advice and realize m- was that just a passing thing? Did you do that? No. Okay. Uh, moments. what I, what I, what I did in that case was I, I ensured I still maintained my priorities within my organization, and I did my best to align them with the broader needs, but sometimes you, you do have to recognize that there's just some stuff that can't get done. What place or thing makes you the most nostalgic? My wife is gonna love this one. Geraniums. Do tell. Um, so I am from Southern California, and, my family has a, a, a property there. My grandfather, had a g- a green thumb like you wouldn't believe. And, um, in Southern California, everything just grows outside. Um, it, it blows my mind. But, um, so there were wild geraniums just growing around the property, and I didn't think twice about it as a kid, but they have a very distinctive smell. Uh, the, the leaves on a geranium smell, um, smell a way, and, and I, I, I never realized what that smell was, um, as a kid. I, I didn't realize that that's what that smell was. Specifically. Yeah. Yeah. But I, but I, I associated that with being at my grandparents' house. And, um, it was not until much later in life, after my... after I'd met my wife and we'd gotten married, and, and she has hundreds of houseplants, um, a- around the house that have to come inside, uh, during the winter. And I brushed up against one at one point, and it was... it snapped me back to being on that property at that point in time 'cause I, I got that, that smell of those plants. And it was, um, now that I realize that I... anytime I'm feeling like I miss my family in, in Southern California, I, I, I seek those out What's your favorite aspect of being a Mason so far? The opportunity ahead. It has been a lot of fun. There's so much to do, and I, I would venture to guess that many people in my personal life would, would say I, I maybe overextend just a little bit. Um, you know, I support a number of nonprofit organizations. I'm active in different things in my community. there's so much to do, and there's so much ahead, and I'm thankful I am a relatively young Mason. I have hopefully many years ahead of me, and I'm ex- so excited to explore and continue to grow, not just from an educational standpoint, not just pursuing that light, but also in the opportunities to engage my brethren and my communities in new and different ways Mike Sanford, you have quite the story And I feel a lot better about the, uh, data center now too. But thank you for all that you do for the craft, and it-- the, the future is bright. There's a, there's a lot of amazing things on the horizon. Thank you.