Tales from Aztlantis

Episode 1: Rise of The Mexikayotl!

March 23, 2021 Kurly Tlapoyawa & Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl Season 1 Episode 1
Tales from Aztlantis
Episode 1: Rise of The Mexikayotl!
Show Notes Transcript

@KurlyTlapoyawa
@Tlakatekatl
www.chimalli.org

In this episode, we cast a critical eye on the organization known as the Movimiento Confederado de la Cultura de Anahuac, or MCRCA, and its founder Rodolfo Nieva Lopez. Now, if you have never heard of Nieva Lopez or the MCRCA before today, you are probably not alone. However, if you are actively involved in Mesoamerican cultural reclamation, Nahuatl language revitalization, Danza Azteca, or Curanderismo, odds are some aspect of what you are practicing has been directly influenced by Lopez and the MCRCA. 

Founded in the late 1940’s by Rodolfo Nieva Lopez, the MCRCA sought to glorify Mexico’s indigenous past but relied almost exclusively on pseudohistorical misrepresentations of Mesoamerican history and culture. The MCRCA adopted the concept of Mexicayotl as the defining characteristic of their movement and released a book in 1969 titled Mexikayotl, which outlined their overall philosophy. In Spanish, the MCRCA began to refer to their version of Mexicayotl as “La Mexicanidad.”Much like Afrocentric pseudo scholars who shamelessly over exaggerate African contributions to the world, the MCRCA had a strong tendency to falsify and embellish the cultural achievements of Pre-Kuauhtemok civilizations. 

For this episode, my co-host and good friend Dr. Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl will take us on a guided tour of Nieva Lopez’s life, and I will provide a brief examination of his book “Mexikayotl.” So strap yourselves in, and prepare yourself for:

 Rise of the Mexikayotl!



Kurly Tlapoyawa is an archaeologist, ethnohistorian, and filmmaker. His research covers Mesoamerica, the American Southwest, and the historical connections between the two regions. He is the author of numerous books and has presented lectures at the University of New Mexico, Yale University, San Diego State University, and numerous others. He is currently a professor of Chicano Studies at the Colegio Chicano del Pueblo, a free online educational institution.
Twitter: @KurlyTlapoyawa
Instagram: kurlytlapoyawa
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kurly.tlapoyawa

Ruben Arellano Tlakatekatl is a scholar, activist, and professor of history. His research explores Chicana/Chicano indigeneity, Mexican indigenist nationalism, and Coahuiltecan identity resurgence. Other areas of research include Aztlan (US Southwest), Anawak (Mesoamerica), and Native North America. He has presented and published widely on these topics and has taught courses at various institutions. He currently teaches history at Dallas College – Mountain View Campus.
Twitter: @Tlakatekatl

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/hcarchy)
Speaker 1:

You must, excuse me. I've grown quite well . It hasn't been easy. I know, but you've learned a lesson, a lesson, an honesty, honesty to yourself and honesty to others. That lesson will stand you in good stead all your life. I think we've all learned a good lesson. I've always heard that honesty is the best policy now, eye catching. I know why that's so why that's so why that's so why that's so well ,

Speaker 2:

Gum , dear listener to tales from us Atlantis. In this episode, we cast a critical eye on the organization known as the movie mental Confederate or [inaudible] or MCR CA and its founder Rudolfo Lopez. Now, if you've never heard of me of a Lopez or the MCR CA before today, you're probably not alone. However, if you are actively involved in mezzo American cultural reclamation, now what language revitalization [inaudible] or curanderismo odds are some aspect of what you are practicing has been directly influenced by Lopez and the MCR CA founded in the late 1940s by Rudolfo Neveah Lopez. The mCRC sought to glorify Mexico's indigenous past, but relied almost exclusively on pseudo historical misrepresentations of mezzo , American history and culture. The mCRC adopted the concept of meshy coyote as the defining character of their movement and released a book in 1969, titled coyote , which outlined their overall philosophy in Spanish. The MCR FCA began to refer to their version of Michigan as Lamech gunny dad , and much like Afrocentric pseudo scholars who shamelessly over-exaggerate African contributions to the world. The mCRC had a strong tendency to falsify and embellish the cultural achievements of prequel [inaudible] civilizations. For this episode, my cohost and good friend, Dr. Rubin [inaudible] will take us on a guided tour of Neva Lopez life. While I will provide a brief examination of his book, Michigan, Ohio . So strap yourselves in and prepare yourselves for the rise of the mushy Gaia .

Speaker 3:

Thank you, curly for a little formula . Lopez was born in Mexico city on May 13th, 1905, two parents who were second generation [inaudible] . Nia was his grandparents on both sides were from ODI , Saba , Cruz , and it knew now what, but rarely ever spoke the language in public. The sources are unclear as to whether his grandparents were actual. Now what plateaus or native, what speakers, or if they were just exposed to the language in their community, it's likely that his family was not culturally indigenous because as a young man in the mid 1920s near the aligned himself with Creole , your nationalism and subscribed to a Mestizo identity anthropologists, Lena , or they're not, women's closely studied nearby Lopez and his new Michigan activities in the 1970s and published a study called Movimiento [inaudible] in 1984. It was basically named after the group itself, which we'll get into in a minute in that study, she explains that Neveah grew up in a society that suffered the most serious contradictions. At that time. The old debate about our origins was again, taking place. Once again, the old wound would be reopened caused by the desperation to find an identity, to be an Indio or to be a Creole or rather to field in your field and therefore make every effort to live in a corresponding way and quote the ever present the beat over Mexican cultural identity had a deep impact throughout novices life. From young adulthood to maturity, he swung from [inaudible] to an indigenous identity as with most young people who lived through it, the tumbled of the Mexican revolution and its aftermath greatly influenced the direction that Neveah says education would take interested in matters of justice. He attended law school at the [inaudible] at the [inaudible] also known as the Unum between 1925 and 1938 believer in Vasconcelos is Neo positivist. Cultural enterprise Neveah was involved in the creation of various student groups, including the [inaudible] while enrolled at the numb . He was a classmate of many future leaders, such as Miguel Alaman Valdez, who would become president of Mexico and Ernesto

Speaker 4:

[inaudible] later. The region of Mexico city never

Speaker 3:

Maintained a lifelong friendship

Speaker 4:

With [inaudible]

Speaker 3:

Kept him in the loop of Mexican politics as a young adult, never sympathized with the ideas of Vasconcellos and gliomas diesel nationalism, which what I described as ideological mestizaje unlike many of his post revolution generation, he was an adamant Hispano file and held extreme anti-anxiety sentiments. He also subscribed to the immensely popular among nationalist

Speaker 4:

Intellectuals that neither Bolshevism nor American democracy was a viable form of government in Mexico. For most of his life, never associated himself with the political environment of the then all powerful official party. The party of the [inaudible] , which later became the Partido revolutionary institutional or the pre as a prominent member of the official party. He was also president of the Mexican bar of lawyers, but this would all change in the latter years of his life. By the mid 1940s near of us, he spinal failure started to fade and his political thoughts slowly

Speaker 3:

Moved towards indigenous

Speaker 4:

Nationalism, which was the realm of people who at the time, self identified as [inaudible] was spelled

Speaker 3:

A Z T E K a H S. His interest

Speaker 4:

Just in this brand of indigenous is largely due to his interaction with an Azteca by the name of Kwan Luna Cardinez

Speaker 3:

As the leader of the indigenous group called

Speaker 4:

Greek cultural society of aesthetic frame

Speaker 3:

And Luna, and his group will be discussing

Speaker 4:

Different episodes. So we'll leave him out for now.

Speaker 3:

It's unclear when both men met, but it was sometime in the early 1950s, because by 1955, Neva was already leading another indigenous group [inaudible] [inaudible] , which

Speaker 4:

As leads to Confederated restoration movement of [inaudible]

Speaker 3:

Culture. This is a precursor to the mCRC. The group was and

Speaker 4:

Is commonly referred to by its Spanish or name and acronym. The Movimiento [inaudible] for

Speaker 3:

The mCRC throughout

Speaker 4:

This podcast series, we will use this acronym

Speaker 3:

When referring to this group, the majority of them

Speaker 4:

MCRC A's membership consisted mainly of college educated and middle-class professionals following Luna's is adoption of a now what name never went by

Speaker 3:

[inaudible] , which loosely

Speaker 4:

Translates to perfect or Supreme Eagle. The group's purpose was to restore prequel demo culture through the philosophical doctrine of Mexicanity or in other words, Mishy coyote , according to a member interviewed by [inaudible] quote. The reason for the founding of our movement is I'll talk to aneurysm to restore the cultural values of a Nowack erase the series of inferiority complexes that the invasion left us lack the Indian complex begin banishing the evil that the invasion brought us, which is attributed to talk than this ancestors. Therefore it is necessary to bring forth our culture, which has been in the dark because our history

Speaker 5:

Was made up by the invaders and to quote the last sentence reveals

Speaker 4:

The mCRC A's agenda, which was tied to a deep sense of purpose that asked to culture must be restored. And that the official narrative of the conquest of Mexico must be revised. This distrust of the, except that scholarship was a key tenant of modern meshy scholars have grouped the [inaudible] Nieves group and adherence of modern meshy coyote as quote unquote , Neo mishigas . The Neo Mashika perceived academic scholarship as heavily one sided in favor of the Spanish and slanders to the memory of their indigenous ancestors. These deeply entrenched views fed into the restorative aspect of the mCRC , but they found ways to challenge the dominant narrative such as calling the time before European arrival, as quote prequel demo, instead of pre Cartesian pre-Columbian or pre-Hispanic the adoption of NOAA names and the rejecting of standard history about the Spanish invasion of Mexico and the fall of the Aztec Mashika were ideas that were first introduced by Luna Carvana in his Azteca group, them CRCA, borrowed, and refashioned them for their own purposes, including the organizational structure, which used the governing group called the [inaudible] or the Supreme council and was headed by the way, the [inaudible] the great executor along with the way, see walk while we, the great administrator never held the position of greed executor from the group's inception until his death in 1968, the mCRC a lived up to its Confederate name by establishing numerous Karpeles or Mashika groups in and around Mexico city and the surrounding States. Well then a whim is noted in her study that there were 10 active groups and of these, the [inaudible] is one of the few called poolees associated with the mCRC that managed to survive well into the 21st century Francisco Jimenez and original founding member of the mCRC and better known by his NOAA name , like a LL headed [inaudible] until his death,

Speaker 5:

2012. I have his, his book. Do you have his book? And now we meet. Yeah . Yeah. It's, it's interesting that he , um, that he's one of the few guys, the OGs, I guess, from the mCRC that does, that kept with it and didn't , um, I guess start us a splinter group, you know, and turn against the, of the mCRC .

Speaker 3:

Well, that's, that's a little debatable. I think one of the reasons why he started his own group is because he felt like he could do things differently and take, take , uh, his followers into a more spiritual realm, as he know , he ended up introducing the Lakota Sundance into Michigan and that , and that's something that, that Neveah would have never done in the mCRC.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. Well, even Luna, right? Luna [inaudible] main objective was the recreating, the religion, right. And this didn't really interest in the yet .

Speaker 3:

Exactly. So I think what happened with, with [inaudible] is that he was trying to return back to the original vision of himself, of restoring , um, what they perceived in their, in their interpretation to be asked to religion. And, you know, according to Glock Ireland, his version of restoring , uh , astic religion was sort of reintroducing the , uh, aspects of, of Esther or misery American religion in general that were supposedly , uh, taken away from as America to protect them from the invading Spanish , uh , so that they could, you know, add a liter date, come back and return those traditions back to Mexico. And one of them, of course, being the Lakota Sundance.

Speaker 5:

Fascinating. Okay. So , um ,

Speaker 3:

To a Neo Mashika revelation by the early fifties, never claimed to have received a revelation. When he met various Azteca restoration his groups, he also claimed that one of these groups had revealed to him a mandate that had been supposedly proclaimed by [inaudible] the night before dinner, Steve Landes surrendered to the Spanish, and you have a first name, the mandate, the Cigna [inaudible] , but was later renamed the now what the AMA or mandate to give it an air of authenticity. Apparently the mysterious Azteca group, which was called the [inaudible] had chosen him as the one to finally reveal the mandate after centuries of secrecy. This topic will be discussed in a future episode on his way to become an Indian and a little funny, a Lopez founded the [inaudible] communally or the Mexicanity movement, which later morphed into the Movimiento [inaudible] or Confederated restoration movement, which was as previously noted an early version of the mCRC during this time, Neveah became the leading figure of modern Gaia and the [inaudible] decision to finally reveal the mandate through him. Undoubtedly helped elevate his credibility among our speaker indigenous and the emergent Neo mishigas. And this gives rise to the of water, and [inaudible] never was a great messenger of whatever ideology he happened to.

Speaker 4:

We were at any given moment in his life, and he found various

Speaker 3:

Ways of spreading his gospel. For instance, when he first took up the Neo Mashika torch in the early fifties, he worked as a columnist at one of Mexico. City's major newspapers [inaudible] through his political connections. He was able to discuss the principles of Michigan with president [inaudible] Cortinez, who served as president between 1952 in 1958 during his presidential campaign. Sonia even wrote president Reese and open letter in his column, asking that in assessing the problems, playing the nation that he considered the plight of the Raza , Indiana, or the indigenous people in that same letter, he argued that although most Mexicans were of mixed ancestry, the Ms diesel ideology was a deficient holdover concept from the colonial era. In his essence

Speaker 4:

Estimation, it enabled the Ms diesel's to separate themselves from indigenous people to justify their ill treatment and neglect. And he wasn't wrong with that, right ? So, you know , he did get some things, right, credited as do , where it is Meredith as time progressed, Neveah became increasingly disillusioned by the political climate and discontented with Mexican society at large, through the mCRC, never hoped to reverse some of the social ills that he perceived work ruining the country. The first step in accomplishing this goal manifested itself in the drafting of a Dr . [inaudible] or doctrine of Mexicanity the following RFU select points that became cornerstones of the mCRC coyote ideology one. Now what, as the national language of Mexico to the exclusion of others, that's kind of right now that is like one of 68 indigenous language, but it's the mushy going and to the purity of indigenous people contrasted against the supposedly inferiority complex of miss diesel's. So, yeah, he's onto something there, I guess. And three that the maximum goal of Michigan was the restoration of the Aztec empire screenless . The doctrine of Mexicanity reflected much of the original Azteca, restorationists rhetoric and motivation espoused by Luna, in keeping with the objectives of the doctrine, never followed in the footsteps of his mentor and created the [inaudible] . The Mexican language Academy in 1960, the purpose of the Academy was to create a Nawa alphabet that promoted the written usage of the language among Mexicans and in true Luna fashion. He had advocated for very particular. Now what alphabet that borrowed from not only Luna, but also from the now what scholar Miguel Spinoza and from the standards set forth by the Astec Congress of 1939, the year before the establishment of the legendary Academy, Nia versus Mexicanness to movement changed its name. Once again to the [inaudible] or the Confederated movie of an hour, it eventually added the [inaudible] restorationists qualifier to signal its ultimate purpose of resurrecting, the cultural, spiritual, and political values of ancient Mexico. The cure for Mexico's corruption, Nineveh believed could only come from immersing oneself in Michigan. The process involves rejecting mestizaje as an ideology adopting a Nawa name and naming your children as well, forming police and rejecting foreign culture and ideas, particularly those of Anglo-American and Spanish, European origin, always the Patriot and public servant nivo worked the Greek part of his life in the government of Mexico city, where he took advantage of his relations with Mr . P [inaudible] , who appointed him member of the [inaudible] . He wanted the last year that the Mexico or executive council of Mexico city having had close ties with presidents and Miguel [inaudible] and Emilio Cortez Hill . He made them honorary members of the mCRC in 1960, as Nirvana's [inaudible] grew more xenophobic and extremely nationalistic. His displeasure with the direction of Mexican politics increased even more near of us desire to correct the ills facing the nation, prompted his political motivations, a move that antagonized some of his old acquaintances, his political ambitions had a tremendous effect on the future of the organization from 1965 onward never gradually politicized his speech and radicalized his position against the government. On September 15th of that year, he announced the creation of a new political party, the [inaudible] or the Mexicanity party whose motto was [inaudible] . In other words, Mexican will never perish. And whose emblem was the very glyph for now . We only in the Aztec spiritual and philosophical concept of for movement, the motto itself was taken from the mCRC official . Now what slogan in Michigan [inaudible] [inaudible] , which basically meant the same thing hardened by the lack of indigenous pride among government bureaucrats, Nyla made enemies as he steadily criticized the political system, the three accused him of having betrayed his ideals to the revolution. The Partido , uh , the popular socialist party brew approached him as being inspired by foreign doctrines and the Partido axial national, the national yeah , action party, which is the more conservative of all accused him of being a reactionary, not to mention his disdain for the communist , uh , who were the ones that he despised the most. So he had enemies all around the conspiracy begins, never decided it was best to tour the country under the banner of his own party, which was officially formalized on March 1st, 1967. However, his political career as the presidential candidate of the Republic was relatively short in September of 1968, as the Mexicanity party prepared to participate in its first elections, Neveah died suddenly under mysterious circumstances because of this unexpected death, many mCRC members suspected foul play and imagined various conspiratorial scenarios. Some blame the [inaudible] for his death, because it was well known that they opposed the politicization of mushy Gaia . According to mCRC lore , these priests were highly secretive and were the main governing council of all restorationists groups. Despite the strong belief among many members that the priests existed, there is no concrete evidence to support this claim. Shocking. Still others pointed at politicians who feared that Nirvana's extremist views were gaining traction outside of his Mexico city following and wanted to stop his progress. His sister and other close collaborators believed it was the latter given the political climate of 1968 with the student massacre at lotta Loco and general political repression. Overall, the suspicions of [inaudible] were well justified. [inaudible] did not survive after his passing and the mCRC organization soon had to make other changes. The climate of persecution in 1968, forced it to modify its name yet again, until then it had been known as the [inaudible] and now it had to change it and add the word. We'll do that to the name, to emphasize the organization's cultural and nonpolitical character. After restructuring the organization, [inaudible] known by her now at name as [inaudible] Watson took charge after horsehair , their brother declined to succeed with all four East Gallatin was an elementary school teacher and school inspector in coocky Melba . She remained at the helm of the mCRC only for awhile . [inaudible] dedicated most of energy directing the mCRC on . Now our culture Institute, where she taught now, what language courses should remain the organization's figurehead until her death in 2007, no one at the mCRC was ever able to match. And you have us as charisma and leadership, and this generated divisions and struggles within the organization in fighting produced schisms that led directly to its loss of prominence and new groups headed by former mCRC members soon emerged without question, all of them operated under the shadow of their deceased leader. [inaudible] the Supreme Eagle for vote for Neveah

Speaker 5:

Lopez. I love how , um, ostentatious that name is. He know he picked that name for himself.

Speaker 4:

I mean, I'm not, I'm no, not what expert, but [inaudible] does that actually mean Supreme?

Speaker 5:

Uh , you know what? I honestly don't know. I will have to look into that. Miss [inaudible] in 1969, a year after it was riddled full Neveah Lopez passed away. The mCRC published his book, Michigan. The book is a bizarre mixture of ultra nationalism, pseudo history, and allegedly traditional knowledge meant to inspire a resurgence of Mexico's Imperial Aztec past the work is best described by Susanna rosters in her 2009 book carrying the word as follows Michigan as an ideology was first expounded in a book of that name published in 1969, characterized by a strident nationalist and messianic message. It depends predominantly on spurious scholarship. It confounds historical time mixing the various high cultures of Mexico, such as that of the Maya old mix and Toltecs, which were powerful at different places. And times from 1500 BC to 80 5,000 and makes no distinction between Aztec culture and the earlier cultures in [inaudible] , all it is claimed spoke. Now what the idea that the Aztecs did not commit human sacrifice is also found in this volume. Rudolfo Neveah is undoubtedly the author of Mishy Gaia. Although the book is published in his sister's name, Maria Del Carmen, never , but it is he who masterminded and gave cohesion to this pro cultural movement or lawyer who also worked as a journalist. He claimed in the 1930s to be of Creole descent for, he was by birth part of Mexico city's elite. So, you know, it is this book that provided the ideological foundation for the movement of the same name, Mishy , Gaia , or Mickey

Speaker 2:

Gunny that in Spanish. And I'm not going to go point by point through the entire book and analyze just how far removed from reality. Most of its claims are because this is something that I'm not quite prepared to subject our listeners to. I will however, offer up a few select cuts, a best of if you will, of some of my favorite quotes. So the book starts off right away by talking about the alleged name of the American continents, the original OC talk tennis true name of our continent is [inaudible] or immensity is Shachi . Lon is the same age as the other continents of the earth, which is why it is wrong to call it new, which has such a goofy point to me,

Speaker 3:

Don't call it the new world. It's just as old as all the other, call it to come back a bit here for you.

Speaker 2:

Consequently, the human beings originating from there are called [inaudible] according to the East Shachi lung gut , cosmic graphy, the original inhabitants of the continent were indigenous to it. They did not come from other continents as the Europeans want based on assumptions and hypotheses inspired by their propensity to compose the world according to their criteria. So, you know, just right off the bat, they give a completely made up name to the American continents and then go on to claim that life here originated here,

Speaker 3:

Which by the way that that name is like, he didn't come up with that name and Chalan anyway, like that's kind of the nurses doing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And we will, we will get to that, that man and this word in particular in a future episode. But it's just interesting that, you know, he starts right off by making this claim and then saying that, you know , you know, life here began here and that we didn't migrate here from every anywhere else, which is totally contrary to all available scientific knowledge

Speaker 3:

That make indigenous people of the America . So different species almost if they had been born separately from the rest of humanity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's a, it's not a very well thought out , uh , uh, claim to make , uh, the book then goes on to what are some of my favorite claims. And that is that the Nawaz took culture to other parts of the world in particular Egypt. So, so the book goes on the NOAA . So who the , the , apparently the Noah , we're trying to circumnavigate the world at some point on their massive seagoing vessels, which don't exist. And in doing so, the book claims the Nawa ran into the coasts of the continents to the East of us, looking for the passage to continue its navigation. They crossed the so-called columns of Hercules or the current straits of Gibraltar and entering the Mediterranean. They encountered the coast of Egypt, which prevented them from moving forward. The Egyptians called the Nawaz Atlantans because when they asked where they came from, the Nawaz answered with the expression Atlantic, which in our language means we came through the Atlantic or the sea. So another great claim, right? So the Nawaz were circumnavigating the globe, but they couldn't because they got blocked by Egypt. So the book then goes on to talk about , uh , Noah Cosmovision and the concept of bailout , which the book translates as creation. So there are a lot of arguments and disagreements over what the word means and how it was applied to the , the Mashika Cosmovision. But in this book and you have a Lopez defines as creation, he goes on to say, they are finally is the origin of the Christian God. The Atlantans , as I have already said in the chapter history of our race of this book, brought our culture

Speaker 5:

To the East, specifically

Speaker 2:

To Egypt. He continues in Greece. So now, now as her influence

Speaker 5:

The Greeks in Greece failed , or

Speaker 2:

Was attributed to divine beings in human form and with human passions as well, consequently, the word was transferred ,

Speaker 5:

Formed into fails. As you can see, it's simply replaced

Speaker 2:

The Mexican ending of T

Speaker 5:

L with the Greek ending S so they look because of the Greeks became fails, which is ridiculous. And then eventually becomes the Latin deal seals . So

Speaker 2:

If you follow the Michigan Ohio , uh , train of thought here, the Nawaz are basically

Speaker 5:

Responsible for most world civilization and culture. I knew it cultures were numbered .

Speaker 6:

Yeah .

Speaker 5:

The entire book is packed to the gills with statements like these completely untethered from any sort of historical reality. The book is also notable for being the second published appearance of the alleged declaration of [inaudible] a prophetic decree that was previously published in the mCRC newsletter East scholar. We will be exploring this declaration in a future episode. Now let me be clear. I truly believe that the goal of reconnecting with our indigenous roots and asserting our indigeneity is a valid, it is a valid goal. However, the path to achieving this goal as laid out by the mCRC and articulated through the modern Michigan movement is misguided at best while I can certainly sympathize with the urge to elevate the historical legacy of our ancestors, a pseudo historical re-imagining of our past is not only unnecessary, it's dangerous by promoting an idealized and often mythical version of Mexico's indigenous history while completely ignoring Mexico's and living indigenous present. The MCR CA has engendered a worldview that ultimately erases dismisses and infantilizes Mexico's traditional indigenous communities. The legacy of Mesoamerican civilization both past and present is impressive enough without resorting to exaggeration and falsity . And this book, my friend is full of exaggerations and falsity .

Speaker 3:

You know, this idea, this idea of, of not only [inaudible] , but also this idea that, that the Mesoamerican peoples did not sacrifice also is something that Luna came up with. He's the first one who espouses ideas as well. So a lot of the , the foundations of Michigan through Neva Lopez are borrowed from [inaudible] early work, going back to the thirties and forties, maybe even the late twenties, but I know for sure he was publishing by the early thirties, he was already publishing his books on this stuff.

Speaker 5:

And, and it's a , uh, an idea that's , uh, maintained today by various offshoot groups of the mCRC, for example , uh, seminar Abdullah , much DeLorean, which is probably the biggest other these offshoots .

Speaker 3:

I think, I think they're the ones that influenced the, or at least originally influenced a lot of the early new Mashika is right there. It started coming, especially people who were affiliated with dancer groups, and then a lot of what ended up here in the U S comes from someone I walk , uh , originally. Right. And , and also also you also had , um, um, [inaudible] coming up in the seventies, you know , and in fact , uh, the , uh , I think we might get into this at some point, but like a little was , uh , part of , uh, he was recruited as part of , uh , like the Mexican indigenous branch of , uh, an organization called the white Truett's white roots of peace who would make , um, different , um, uh, presentations throughout the country at different like rec centers and local communities where a large urban Indian contingent , uh, and , and , uh , populations resided to sort of connect people back to their indigenous roots. So both black eyelids group and some, when I walk, we're responsible for a lot of the stuff that we ended up, like meeting , you ended up , uh, affiliating and associated with [inaudible] going back in the nineties.

Speaker 5:

Oh yeah. And , and even before that, you know, just like the emergent, Chicano identity, these groups had , uh , a hand ,

Speaker 3:

Um, through , um,

Speaker 5:

What's Luis Valdez group called

Speaker 3:

[inaudible] .

Speaker 5:

Yeah, yeah. [inaudible] yeah. Um, you had guys like Domingo Martinez Perez, right. Who were talking to Luis Valdez and influencing a lot of the stories that they were telling the plays that they were, they were putting on. So you had, you know, you could trace all of this stuff back to men like [inaudible] and VMC RCA all the way up to the present. And you could just kind of pick apart, you know, unwind that, that tied up little knot , and he could see how these people influenced Chicano identity. And a lot of the things that we were led to believe are actually traditional knowledge and ancestral teachings actually came from these guys in the 1940s and fifties, who were like part of the extremely ultra nationalists ,

Speaker 3:

Ultra nationalists , pseudo historical pseudoscientific . They would make up stuff to fit their, you know, bias and their agenda and their philosophy. And, you know, you had people like combats men was who was also part of the mCRC , uh, who , uh, as far as I understand is also one of the people that came up early on in the eighties and began to also influence a lot of the early mushy guy , uh , groups , uh , in Texas. I'm not sure about anywhere else, but I know that Texas there's connections to whom batsman to [inaudible] , uh , to those on something groups that were already being influenced by , uh , some , uh , Noah . Um, so all of this, by the time we get Michigan out here in the U S it's already been several decades of a certain philosophical , uh, re-interpretation of not , not only astic history, but history and culture and filtered through this restorationists lens of trying to bring back the greatness of, you know , astic cultures and built the walk-in and the Olmec and the rest of it. But, you know, also what , what sort of left a bad taste in my mouth after I started doing the research into this group , uh , them CRCA, and then, you know, found out about it when the cat of the mass in his group is at Luna. Carlin has actually studied in Germany in the thirties. And when he came back to Mexico, he, this is like right at the cusp of the Nazi party, you know, rising to power and right before world war II, and then subsequently the horrors of the Holocaust. He's coming back before all that he's coming back to Mexico and he's applying some of that airiness ideology to his , uh , Sticka philosophy. And in some point in some, in some work that I've seen of his, like he's even making connections to how, you know, the Azteca were , you know, part of the, maybe not necessarily directly part of the area, but that they were sort of also just as great or even greater than those areas. Right. So, so it always comes back to Nazi somehow, you know ,

Speaker 5:

There's always a Nazi in the closet

Speaker 3:

That, that was, that was truly devastating for me when I learned that about Michigan, that the , the, the original person whose foundations led to what we know is, but she had , um, Nazi sympathies.

Speaker 5:

Yeah . And then on the flip side, Vasconcellos also had Nazi sympathies. Right. So on both, both, both sides of this coin. Yeah, exactly. You know, even though they're , they're kind of in opposition to each other and their ideologies, they're both kind of linked to , uh , an affinity for the Nazi

Speaker 3:

Is that national that's ultra nationalism, that, that, I mean, that's what the Nazis were. They were ultra nationalists. And when you have another ultra nationalist group, you know, the, the encountered each other and they might not see eye to eye , but they see common ground at least,

Speaker 5:

You know, I , I try to take the approach , um, to people who are involved, actively involved in the modern Ishikawa movement, not to be , um, you know, not to be little them or, or, or, or talk down to them or try to humiliate them because, you know, I , I was there too . I believed in the same stuff. I was part of that same here, but, you know, I'm just trying to put out information too , so that they're better informed. I want them to make better informed decisions about what they're involved in. And there are better ways, you know, if you really are dedicated to, you know, cultural preservation, language revitalization, you know, there are ways to go about it that

Speaker 3:

Aren't so patronizing and dismissive of indigenous.

Speaker 5:

And hopefully now people come around and start seeing it for what it is and maybe reform it.

Speaker 3:

I know . I mean, it's going to be hard to , to see a lot of people, especially people that , that we know personally that have, you know, invested so many years to this , um, to all of a sudden, you know, just let it go. But I think what's happening is that I think the new age influence of the seventies that really begins to gain ground throughout the eighties , um, and is more prevalent now than the ultra nationalist , Michigan coyote , that Neela was espousing in the sixties.

Speaker 5:

I agree. Yeah. I think that that ultra nationalist , nausea , phobia seen a phobic , uh, stuff that was coming out in the seventies , um, has been replaced by a lot of , uh, you know, new age type stuff. Right. Mora , such as spirituality, spiritual ,

Speaker 3:

Um, I'm a spirit. I'm not, I don't identify as anything in particular, you know, that sort of stuff like, okay. Yeah. But you do know that what you're doing as an origin, right? That's the part you don't want to hear. Uh , there's an origin to this stuff, whatever you want to call it, now there's an origin to it. And that's what we're here to do. We're just here to show you where this stuff comes from. It's up to you to make your own decision and choose to either continue or, or not, or to change it or to Revit whatever the case may be. We're , we're not here to tell you what to do. We're just here to show you , uh , what we found through our research, because, you know, we, we are also part of the same movement.

Speaker 5:

And with that dear listeners, we say, [inaudible] see you soon on the next episode of tales from us Lantus. And remember folks, the truth is like medicine. It doesn't always taste good, but it's always good for you.