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Dr. Maria Qadri, CEO of Clearwater Leadership begins the conversation on her journey into entrepreneurship with memories of building things (flat pack furniture) with her father–both of her parents were engineers and science-y discussions were a hallmark of her childhood. As a child, Maria slowly started to envision becoming a doctor, mainly influenced by her diagnosis with type 1 diabetes and the time she spent with medical experts to understand and manage her disease. Ultimately, Maria landed on biomedical engineering as the best path for her, combining all of her interests. As she continued in her studies in college at University of Hartford, focusing on pre-med and biomedical engineering, Maria came to the revelation that she “could have so much more of an impact if [she] made the tools that doctors worked with.” This led to the first twist in her journey and she pursued a Masters at University of Connecticut and then received her doctorate at Rutgers University. Along the way, however, she stumbled upon science policy, leading to another turn in her journey. And again she came across a new realization: “good policy is good communication.” This inspired her to complete a unique post-doctoral fellowship at the Association of American Colleges and Universities focused on science communications and policy. She had found the perfect fit in what she was looking for, again combining several different interests. At this current stage in her career journey, Maria has amassed a wealth of experience and knowledge, it was just a matter of somehow putting it all together with the other goals she had in her life–starting a family and buying her first home–to find the perfect sweet spot. And now as the founder of her own company, Maria can proudly say she feels like she has it all–a daughter, a husband, a home, and her own business to invest in her many passions. As she looks back on her journey, Maria thinks about her village of family support and mentors that guided her every step of the way. One of the best pieces of advice she would give to anyone interested in following a similar journey is to “run towards the things you are afraid of.”
Tune into this episode to hear Maria discuss:
- How her journey brought together many different interests as she grew both personally and professionally
- Why a Ph.D. is a degree in persistence, not intelligence
- What her vision is of success, and some tips for anyone interested in going to graduate school for a Ph.D.
Reach out to Maria: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariajq/
Email: ceo@clearwaterleadership.com
Other Great Episodes:
Ep 40: The Art of Science with Laura Canil - The Journey
Ep 7: STEMLand Future of Science - The Journey
Ep 37: Sista, Sista! Graduate School Years - The Journey
Reach out to Fatu:
www.linkedin.com/in/fatubm
Twitter: @thee_fatu_b
and LoveSciencePodcast@gmail.com
Reach out to Shekerah:
www.linkedin.com/in/shekerah-primus
and LoveSciencePodcast@gmail.com
Music from Pixabay: Future Artificial Intelligence Technology 130 by TimMoor
Music from https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Scott_Holmes: Hotshot by ScottHolmesMusic
Intro 0:03
This is the journery; this is the journey. Welcome back to We Love Science podcast. This is the journey episode. Here, our guest star shares more about their discovery of science, and how mentors and experiences shaped who they are today. To hear more about the work associated with this journey, please check out the previous episode.
Shekerah Primus 0:28
Hello Everyone, welcome back to the show, We Love Science. Today we'll be talking to Dr. Maria Qadri, a science communication expert, and excitingly, you've recently founded your own company called Clearwater Leadership. Love that name, Maria; congratulations launching, your company.
Maria Qadri 0:49
Thank you.
Shekerah Primus 0:50
So we're going to jump into the journey segment of our conversation. And this is where we talk about your journey. Basically how you got to this point of opening your own company, right. So, we like to start this segment with your earliest memories involving science. So if you can remember, did you have a science spark or any science wow moments when you were growing up?
Maria Qadri 1:17
Well, so I was really lucky that both of my parents were engineers. And so because they were engineers, we always had sciency conversations around the house. I this is gonna sound silly, but my favorite thing to do is put together flat pack furniture. I love building things and I still have lots lots of memories of, you know, building furniture with my dad, my mom, and my brothers. My brothers actually built their own computers when they were teenagers. So I remember watching them go through that. I remember just being really, really curious about sciency things. I always loved science class when I was in elementary school and middle school. And then when I was in high school, I took all the AP science classes that I could, so AP Physics, AP chem, anatomy and physiology.
Shekerah Primus 2:23
Amazing. You go girl. I yeah, that is amazing. I think it's so much easier, right? When you grew up with it, and you see it and you talk about it and it's like a normal part of your life. Right. So when you get to choosing a career, it's not like the reach for you to wonder oh can I go into science; like you've been around it all your life. I love that. Okay. So how did your career plans fall on your journey? So, what did you want to be in elementary, middle school? How did those things change over time?
Maria Qadri 2:59
So the other fun fact about me is I'm a type one diabetic and I was diagnosed when I was in the fourth grade. So I spent not a lot of time but I spent some time in hospitals and with a lot of doctors. And so when I graduated from high school, I thought I wanted to be a doctor. Because that was something that my parents and I talked about; something that I always thought I was really interested in. And so I thought I was going to major biology or chemistry. And my mom was adamant that I should get a degree in engineering because she said, you know, give me a good foundation. And I didn't want to be an electrical engineer like her and I didn't want to be a mechanical engineer, like my dad. And biomedical engineering was something that was, you know, not new but relatively innovative. And so, I saw that the college that I was interested in, the University of Hartford, they had a major and I was I ended up speaking at length with one of the professors about their program; and I was like, yes, this is what I think I want to do right now. Because you need to have an undergraduate degree before you get into med school. So I was biomedical engineering with the pre med, you know, concentration, and I did all the pre med training, but then I realized I would have so much more of an impact if I made the tools that doctors worked with. And so I decided to pursue a master's in biomedical engineering. And at that point, I thought I wanted to become a professor and teach biomedical engineering to other students. And so that's what led me to start my PhD journey as I knew I wanted to be a professor one and most professors have PhDs.
And then, while I was working
on my PhD I was learning more and more about science policy. I attended a workshop the AAAS's, Catalyzing Advocacy in Science and Engineering workshop. And we spent, you know, three or four days in DC and lots of like workshops and tutorials and discussions about science policy; and I realized policy impacts literally everything that we do, whether we know it or not. So that's what I decided I wanted to do when I wrapped up my PhD is work in federal science policy. And so, from my PhD I ended up at a small firm called Ripple Effect. And they did science policy, they did communications, they did research and evaluation, and while I was with them, I actually ended up being an intern in all three of their divisions before they hired me full time. And, and so that AAAS, Catalyzing Advocacy in Science and Engineering workshop, the CAISE workshop, it was really impactful and AAAS actually holds a Science and Technology Policy Fellowship Program. It's actually how a lot of PhDs now get into policy. And so I had thought that I wanted to do that program. But while I was waiting for the application process, I had found out about this unique postdoctoral fellowship at the Association of American Colleges and Universities, and it focused on scientific communications, which was something that I was also really interested in because for those of us that know, good policy is good communications. If you create a policy and you don't explain it to anyone, it exists in a vacuum.
Same thing with science, if you did really really cool research and you can't tell anyone that story then did you really do that research? And so I took this postdoctoral fellowship at AACU and I worked for Dr. Kelly Mac at the Office of Undergraduate STEM Education, and I really enjoyed the work that we were doing. It was really impactful. We were working at historically black colleges and universities and we were developing programs to enhance the skills of STEM faculty. I really, really enjoyed the work that I was doing. But for anyone that's been in the nonprofit world before they know that the pay is not great. My husband and I were thinking about buying a house and starting a family. And so I ended up taking a position at ETS Federal and that was working as a manager and scientific portfolio analysis for the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute. And I've been there for about two years now. And I'm keeping my day job but on the side I'm starting this new company this venture Clearwater Leadership. And that I actually am starting because I was talking to Dr. Kelly Mac and she was like, you know if you can consult on this side, I might have some work for you. And so I realized you can have it all. So I have a five month old baby, I have a husband, I have a home and now
I'm starting my own business.
Shekerah Primus 8:54
Congratulations
Maria Qadri 8:56
Thank you.
Shekerah Primus 8:57
That is so exciting. Congratulations on all your new things that's going on in your life. So many changes. And thank you for sharing your, your journey with us, for you got to be your own company, I think. So I also initially wanted to go the medical school route and then switched over, right. I love how your switch was so insightful. Like for me it was like, oh, that's blood, people, no med school. You know, I'm not gonna do the med school route anymore. But I love how you sort of went through it. It was so insightful. You're like I could try to make the tools that the doctors are using. That was yeah, that was really insightful.
Fatu Badiane Markey 9:40
I like that. I like that
a lot too. I feel like I also had an interest in med school initially. And then for me, I just didn't get any where I applied to. So then I was like oh okay. I guess I'll figure something else out. And it so happened, you know that, I was working in a lab as a technician. And I liked what I was doing. And I was like, Oh, PhD might not be that bad. So then I ended up at Rutgers and yeah, it's it's like sometimes you plan it and sometimes it just kind of falls in your lap; but I am glad I really liked that statement you said, which like, you can have it all. And just defining what that is and really going for that so definitely super congrats for me as well. You know on everything that you've accomplished. So far. I think that's awesome.
Maria Qadri 10:30
Thank you.
Shekerah Primus 10:31
Excellent. So you spoke about this a little bit already. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you think your own experience getting a PhD influenced, the roles that you chose and sort of how your your journey has evolved?
Maria Qadri 10:49
That's a big that's a good question. So I think that what a PhD really affords people is discipline and dissection. So we can take really big open ended problems and we can break them down into smaller pieces. I think anyone with a PhD has done that. You start with this giant pie in the sky idea and then you start whittling it down into something that's actually doable, and you know, parts and stages specific aims and all of those things you you figure out, hey, I have this problem. I have the solution. You know, how do I best study it? And I will say that I don't think there are degrees in intelligence, they're degrees in persistence. So
I, I
struggled during my PhD it was really, really hard. You know, I think everyone has sort of a struggle that they have to overcome during their dissertation. Whether it be you know, family struggles, personal struggles, professional struggles. I struggled with the writing. Putting together a publication was really really difficult for me. And writing my dissertation was probably one of the hardest things I had ever done. Yeah, because I've struggled with a blank page syndrome. It was really really hard. And, you know, the relationship with your mentor has a big impact on it. I actually I ended up switching mentors, two years into my PhD process. Just because it wasn't a good fit. And I went from one extreme of the types of mentors that you could have to the other extremes of the types of mentors that you could have when I really needed something in the middle. And, you know, I think while I'm talking about it the other tip I can give anyone that's thinking about getting a PhD is remember that you don't need one mentor to fulfill everything. You need many, many mentors to help you with different aspects of your career development journey. The same thing is true of your day job, just because your day job is a PhD student doesn't mean you can't do anything else that you want to in your side time to fulfill yourself. So I did a lot of volunteering. I did a lot of policy like I led the Rutgers science policy and advocacy at Rutgers group. And then I helped out with our student society in the biomedical engineering department. So I did a lot while I was getting my PhD; I was a TA. I was actually a co adjunct for a course during my dissertation days. So there's a lot that you can do while you're getting your PhD. There's also a lot that you can do and in your day job once after you finish your degree. So I still volunteer with the Association of Women in Science and with the Journal of Science Policy and Governance.
Shekerah Primus 13:32
I love that Maria, you gave so much really good advice there and just tips for people wanting to get a PhD. I love that you brought up mentors already because that next question we're going to be heading into next. But a couple of things that I really love that you said that, you know getting a PhD it's about discipline and dissection. I love that I love that little phrase--discipline and dissection. So that might be a title. I don't know but I love that and then another thing that you said was a degree in persistence, you know, not intelligence. I think those two things are really, really so profound and so true, right?
Fatu Badiane Markey 14:52
And I would say snaps from me also for all of that; I really liked those two phrases also, especially the degree of persistence. You know, I think sometimes there's this mischaracterization that you have to be like, so smart to do a PhD. But you're absolutely right. It's like you just got to stick with it, you know, and just have enough gumption to like get through the tough parts and then you'll make it
Maria Qadri 15:17
And it takes a family. It's like there's no way that I did my entire dissertation by myself. I had a lot of friends that helped me through it. I had a lot of family that helped me through it. So I remember my younger brother sitting down and teaching me a little bit of R to get go code written. So yeah, is, it takes a village to get a PhD?
Shekerah Primus 15:40
Absolutely.
I also think that basically shows how much you've grown because you talked about how difficult writing was for you, how difficult writing the dissertation was for you. Now, you've basically founded a company where you're going to be doing writing right, for other people. So, that's so phenomenal and that you overcame, you overcame that. So you talked a little bit about mentors, the mentors that you had and that you switched your mentors during your PhD. So can you just talk a little bit more about the people in your life, and how have you had any influential mentorships during your journey?
Maria Qadri 16:24
I've had a lot of very influential member mentorships I would be remiss if I didn't bring up my parents as mentors. They have been a guiding light in my life. We don't always get along exactly, but you know, they still give me the best information that they can offer me from their vantage points. And then I worked with Dr. [Name] at Rutgers for two years. He was a great mentor; taught me a lot about the politics of getting an NIH funding. And you know what it takes to write an RO1 grant. I switched to working with Dr. Bill [Name], who recently retired after I finished my dissertation, but he taught me, he taught me a lot about persistence and about doing your best work. And you know, I learned a lot about myself while I was with him. He was always very integrative. So he, you know, like had a lot of partners that he would work with. And so I learned a lot about partnership working with him. While I was at Ripple, I had great mentors within the company, I think I think I work very closely with the two founders, Amy and Jennifer and they really showed me what discipline looks like in terms of professionalism and you know, they would host Lunch and Learns within the company all the time. And so that's how I really learned how to be a consultant. And then, while I was at ASCU, Dr. Kelly Mac is wonderful. I will sing her praises anytime. She taught me that I am capable of writing; I just need to know kind of sit down with myself and talk it out. And once I do that I don't have a blank page anymore, especially with things like zoom and otter AI that now will transcribe conversations. I just need to talk through my ideas with someone for a little while and then I can get words down on the paper and start editing and that's how I've overcome my writer's block. And now in my current role at ECS Federal I have to say that my Vice President Assad; he Assad [Name] he has taught me that there's a lot of different ways to get to the right answer. It's not always the path that you think of first, it could be your second attack or your third attack. There's always more one than one solution to a problem. And you only win the work that you bid on. So you have to bid more to win more. Which I think is you know, my new go to phrase.
Shekerah Primus 19:39
I haven't heard that one before, bid more win more.
Maria Qadri 19:44
Well if you only get to try the you only get to do the work that you try to do. And so I'm now holding that one close to my chest while I start my new company.
Shekerah Primus 19:57
Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing it. It definitely sounds like you've had a lot of influential mentors and people just having your back and really supporting you and really being upgraded. Cheers to them. So Maria, considering your journey, and all of the things that you've learned and all the ways that you've shared with us that you've grown, what advice would you give your younger self.
Maria Qadri 20:24
Run towards the things that you are afraid of?
Shekerah Primus 20:29
That's powerful. I love that. Oh my god and
Intro 20:32
scary, right. I
Shekerah Primus 20:33
feel like I just got goosebumps hearing that statement. Very cool.
Maria Qadri 20:39
I definitely think that I was afraid of writing for a really long time because I had perfectionism problems and it didn't come out right the first time. Then it was never going to be right. I was afraid of I was afraid of introducing my husband to my parents. I was afraid of having a child. You know, and I will say that all the stuff that I've been afraid of are now really key core components in my life.
Shekerah Primus 21:09
Beautiful. So powerful.
Fatu Badiane Markey 21:13
I love that too. I love that too. Run towards the things that you're afraid of that definitely gave me goosebumps, like, I was like all the chills. But yeah, I think it's so necessary, right? Because that's when you're gonna grow as a person. And two, that's the only way that you're going to figure out, can actually I do this right? Like if you just walk away from it, then you still have the same space but if you at least approach it at least you'll learn something. So I love that I love that. You have so many good one liners
Shekerah Primus 21:46
Put it in a book Maria that's what I would say
Maria Qadri 21:51
I am working on it
Shekerah Primus 21:52
You got my vote. I'm definitely gonna buy it.
Fatu Badiane Markey 21:56
Yes, please.
Shekerah Primus 21:58
So looking back, is there anything that you would do differently?
Maria Qadri 22:03
Oh, yeah.
So much, I don't know if there's a good succinct answer for that one, but I think that hindsight is 2020 And so I try not to dwell on the past too much. I just try to make sure that I get the lessons that I learned and I take them forward into the future because dwelling on the past. It really just it brings you down whereas focusing on the future really builds you up Yeah.
Shekerah Primus 22:35
So visualize you're successful self, you're successful Maria, ideal life, everything going just the way you wanted to. What does that picture look like? Describe that for us?
Maria Qadri 22:49
It's like my life right now.
Fatu Badiane Markey 22:50
Oh, I love that.
Maria Qadri 22:53
I don't think I think that successes, success is what you make of it. And I think that right now for me success is being happy and you know challenged. Am I as challenged as I want professionally, maybe not. And that's part of why I'm starting my own company. But think that I've accomplished a lot. And you know it takes a lot to say that out loud. A lot of people don't feel that way. Like finishing up your PhD everyone says it feels anticlimatic, but it is a big deal. And despite the fact that we're all academics. In a lot of circles people are really impressed by PhDs.
Shekerah Primus 23:38
And we're not impressed by ourselves
Fatu Badiane Markey 23:40
Right it's crazy.
Maria Qadri 23:43
We should be
impressed by ourselves. We are women, women of color that have completed degrees that you know a lot of white men can't manage.
Shekerah Primus 23:57
Yeah, I think we looked so much at the obstacles and the challenges that we had and all of that that you don't see the amazing accomplishment and the road ahead of us right so I definitely need to be out of my shell and I include myself in that of we.
Maria Qadri 24:17
I think I like to try and think of myself as the younger me and would younger be be proud of who I am. The younger me with the really proud.
Fatu Badiane Markey 24:27
Beautiful love that. Love it, just so great. And I love how it's like you know I'm successful right now and happy. And that is fantastic. You know, just being really present and appreciative of everything that you've done along the. That's such a positive way of looking at it.
Maria Qadri 24:48
And there's always more to do. There will always be more to do, there will always be new goals. There will always be new milestones. So thinking of yourself as successful in this very moment. Even completing a bachelor's degree is an accomplishment. And again, we minimize that because of the circles that we've we are in; but it is a big deal. Yep.
Shekerah Primus 25:11
Excellent. Thank you so much Maria for sharing your journey with us. Fatu any additional questions for this segment?
Fatu Badiane Markey 25:19
I honestly feel like I'm just going to need like a nap after this. There's like so much like you know, like I feel like I'm really just just like strong convictions you know. And I just need time to just go let it all absorb in. Alright, so now we're going to do the third segment of our show, which is called life lights. And this is basically what brings you joy outside of work. So Maria when you think about hobbies, passion projects, family and friends. What do you like to do to relax? What brings you light and enjoyment?
Maria Qadri 26:02
A lot of things mostly connecting with my friends I'll say. I like to keep in touch with folks. I'm a really good connector and you know, checking in with everyone seeing how they're all doing. My daughter, obviously brings me a lot of joy and she takes up a lot of my spare time. I like to knit and bake and go on hikes and play video games with my husband. I have a lot of things that bring me joy.
Fatu Badiane Markey 26:40
There's
so many things and so many good things in there to the knitting, the baking. Shekerah will will agree with the hiking part.
Shekerah Primus 26:50
Don't lie Fatu, we know you like hiking as well.
Fatu Badiane Markey 26:56
I like to do what I call like nature walks, it's like flat paths through the woods. But I have gotten to some things that are a little bit more rugged, and it hasn't been horrible. So this might be one of the things that I fear that I'm running towards and I just don't want to admit that
Shekerah Primus 27:13
She's loving hiking Marie. I'm just gonna go out there and say it.
Maria Qadri 27:19
I have a great book for you. It's like the 50 Hikes of Maryland DC and Virginia. It's a good book that I got as a birthday present but I've been working my way through it and they are not terribly arduous hikes. They're in there that are you know, nature walks.
Fatu Badiane Markey 27:38
I feel like you know, I just I just need like a good stroll, you know, I'm not out there trying to be like super sweaty, super tired at the end. I just you know, want to enjoy the trees and like cute birds, you know, and then come back and do dinner. Thanks to Maria. We look forward to following up with you in the future and to hear about the next phase of your journey. And I think this has been, you know, a really enjoyable discussion for both me and Shekerah and you know, it's like the Rutgers crew. We have been doing a lot of things with other Rutgers alumns which has been a lot of fun. So thank you. Thank you for joining us today
Maria Qadri 28:18
Oh, of course.
Outtro 28:20
Okay, so we'd like to say thank you to our listeners for supporting the podcast. If you enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe, like and share. And you can reach out to us by email at love science podcast@gmail.com. Please send any questions from past guests, comments about the show, or suggestions for guests that you'd like to hear from the show. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time,
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