Ep 84: The International Academic - The Work

Today we are joined by a fellow Rutgers alumnus, David Calianese. He recently completed a post-doc at Osaka University in Japan and is now starting a new lab at Seton Hall University in New Jersey. David’s new lab will study the process of programmed cell death and its influence on the immune system, specifically as relates to cancer. The link between cell death and the immune system lies within particular enzyme-receptor interactions, and understanding these linkages and pathways more deeply will help to develop novel therapeutics and targets for cancer treatments. This is one short-term goal David envisions for his lab. Moving across the world from the US to Japan for his post-doc and then back to the US for a new position, was a big transition for David, filled with ups and downs, but in the end he was able to land a job he really wanted. Even though David is now miles away from the friendships (personal and professional) he built in Japan, he is very optimistic about keeping the connections he made abroad. As he sees it, “science is what unites the world,” because ultimately his research is going to help people he will never meet, and in a way that connects us all. Looking back at his first months as an assistant professor, David really enjoys the freedom of his new role and mentoring young students. It truly brings him excitement every single day. Some daily challenges he encounters as a new assistant professor come in two flavors–teaching and research. With his very limited teaching experience, David has to find ways of distilling complex topics appropriately for an undergraduate audience. And with working in a research environment, just setting up a lab can be tricky–where do you put new equipment? How do you organize the lab space and keep it functional? Despite these minor setbacks, David still has wonderful advice for anyone interested in a similar career path–find what you love and make it your life’s work. Hear more about David’s work on the podcast!        

Check out the latest episode on the website: https://welovesciencepodcast.com 

Tune into this episode to hear David’s perspective on:

• The application process in going from post-doc to assistant professor 
• How to find the right support in becoming a new PI (primary investigator)
• Star Trek; yes, Star Trek (Trekkies, this one’s for y’all) 

Reach out to David on:

• LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidcalianese/
• Seton Hall website: https://www.shu.edu/profiles/calianda.html 
• IG: @DCBiolab 

If you enjoyed this episode, also listen to:

Ep 26: From Post doc to Assistant Professor - The Work

Ep 13: Estrogen Heals Both Sexe

Chapters

• 2:08 Food Science - Authentic Japanese food
• 6:53 Guest Introduction
• 7:33 What is your field of study and the major question your lab is addressing?
• 11:34 What's one thing you loved discovering and why?
• 14:53 What has the experience transitioning from postdoc to PI been like for you?
• 30:01 The Star Trek effect
• 34:03 What do you love most about what you do?
• 38:26 What have you found challenging?
• 51:42 What advice would you give to someone who wants to be a PI?
• 57:00 Hosts on the hot seat game
• 1:02:23 How to reach Dave

Transcript

What can you do with your love of science? We'll tell you. Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of your favorite podcast. We love science. We are your hosts. I'm Shekerah

and I am Fatu. And today we got a super super special treat for you. Both Shekerah and I are super excited. We're speaking with a fellow Rutgers alum who just made the transition from postdoc to PI. Yay. Very very exciting. Dr. Dave Calianese is an assistant professor at Satan Hall University in South Orange right here in New Jersey. with a brand spanking new lab just opened last month, I believe. Right.

You got it.

Yeah. So, that's August 2025, you guys. So, Dave, we are incredibly happy that you could come on to chat with us today. Welcome. Welcome.

Oh, I have to say this before we start. You know, you've made it when you're a guest on your favorite podcast. So, I feel so honored to be here. Um, I've been listening to both of you for so long, so it, you know, know to say it's an honor is an understatement. So, thank you for having me.

Thank you. And we are honored to have you as well and we were honored to have you listening to us and happy that we could share your story on the show. So, we're so happy.

Thank you so much. Thank you for the opportunity.

Great. So, we're looking forward to getting into all of that, hearing about the amazing work that you do, your new role, your new lab, and your journey so far. So, how you got here. But first, everyone knows we got to warm up with some food. food.

Sound good?

Sounds good to me.

Perfect.

All right. So, I'm always excited when we have guests who have lived in another country. So, they could tell us all about the food there. And Dave, I know that you did your postdoc, you did one of your postdocs in Japan. And so, you spent what was it a couple years there? Is that right?

Yep. About two and a half years.

All right. Yeah. Awesome. So, tell us is the Japanese food we get here in the US like for examp example, the sushi and the hibachi.

Is it similar to what they have in Japan or is it super Americanized here? And you know, what's the best thing you ate in Japan?

Oh, no. The best thing I ate in Japan. Oh, that's tough. Okay. But um what I'll say is um you can find really good Japanese food here place.

Okay.

There's Mitsua um is in Edgewater, New Jersey around that area. That's probably the closest that you can get um probably in New York as well.

Um but uh in terms of the like overall quality, bang for your buck type of deal in Japan, the beautiful aspect of that uh country is that you can find amazing food for like less than $3, which is so good.

Um

one of the things that was I I was taken back by was Japanese food. I thought immediately like, oh, it's just, you know, sushi.

Yeah. There's a more than sushi in Japan I came to know. Uh so I think I'd have to say the meal that really took me back was something called tonkotsu ramen. Are you familiar?

Tonkotsu. Yeah, that sounds familiar. I've seen that for sure.

So it's like this uh this ramen uh which is like a hot hot bowl of soup broth type of deal with noodles.

Um

and on top of it Remember when we got this? We got this in a place called Kagoshima,

which is um at the southern mo most tip of the island of um Kyushu.

Oh.

And um they had this big slab of fried pork that they put over the soup.

And the tonkotsu ramen is actually a very thick broth. So

there's a lot of salt and flavor. So

sounds awesome.

Um if I had to choose like one more meal before I left, I think I fly back down. the Kagoshima and get that one. And if anyone's visiting, it's a Vagabond uh ramen uh ramen shop. So, you know,

Vagabond Ramen. Is that actually the name?

That's what it was amazing. I was like, "Oh my god, what is this place?" But yeah,

yeah. So, if you ever visit Kagoshima, um it's a beautiful city and um go to Vagabond Ramen.

Vagabond Ramen. That sounds like a very American name, I have to say. is right.

But there's a lot of like people love American culture there. So sometimes they name

stores and

Okay.

And I'm saying as like a generalization,

you know, u American culture is is in in many places considered pretty cool. So

cool.

Targeted to Americans, right?

Yeah, that too. Exactly. But they clearly got me. So

So that's interesting. That's super It sounds a lot like uh was it Vietnamese? What is it? Faux or F, however they pronounce it.

It sounds a lot like that.

Yeah,

certainly. I'm I'm sure I'm I'm sure there's some connection in terms of cuisine. Um but it's interesting this one in particular because there are all different types of ramen depending on where you are um in Japan.

Um this one is known to be a very like thick like a cream almost creamy.

Wow.

Yeah. So it's good.

Nice. Uh, amazing. Now I want to go try it. I know.

Please, please, please do.

We got to go.

Yeah, we'll do let's do like a group trip one day. We'll meet in We won't meet in the United States in Japan.

We'll meet in Japan, right? We'll spend $2,000 for like a $3 bowl of soup. What if like the math is nothing? So, let's just

Oh, the math is definitely nothing. You are absolutely right about that. So,

Oh god. Well, it won't be 2,000 for you cuz you're closer, right? That's true. That's true. That's true.

Yes. True. Yeah.

All right.

So, the math is even mapping even more.

The math is mapping. Exactly.

Excellent. Thank you. Thank you so much, Dave.

Yeah. Well, thank you for that trip down memory lane

and our mouths are watering.

Yeah.

So, everyone, let's jump in. So, as we said, our guest today is Dr. Dave Calianese, who is a alum where he received his PhD studying cancer imunotherapies. Following his doctoral training, he completed two postdocs. Yes, that's two in immunology. His second postdoc adventure as we were just discussing he took all the way to Osaka University in Japan. We can't wait to hear all about that postdoc in the journey segment. Today Dave is an assistant professor of biology at Satan Hall University. Right. here in New Jersey, US of A. So Dave, let's start there. It sounds like you went back to your doctoral roots with the work that your own lab does. So can you tell us a bit about your field of study and the major question that your research and your lab is addressing?

Yeah, absolutely. So yes, I did come back to my roots a little bit uh geographically um as well as um from a scientific standpoint.

Yeah.

Um what I focus on in my lab is the process of cell death, programmed cell death uh and its influences on the immune system uh in the context of cancer.

So here at Satan Hall, we're looking into different enzymes,

proteins that regulate lipid movement within the plasma membrane.

And on the other side of that, um there are receptors that are on, you know, Phagocytes or eating cells such as macrophages that recognize those lipids on dying cells that have been translocated by those enzymes

and they modulate immune responses downstream.

So we're looking both at the dying cell or in certain cases activated cell enzymes as well as the receptors on macrophages that mediate that signaling to the immune system.

So cancer immunotherapies and the purpose is to develop novel immunotherapies uh for cancer. Is that correct?

Ultimately That's the goal. Um, you know, I think our lab is going to serve at least in the short term to

look at enzymes that haven't been discovered um that regulate this uh to develop new targets

as well as looking into receptor biology

um and fig figuring out these receptors that may be implicated in immune suppression. So, you know, dampening of the immune system in cancer,

you know, how are they activated? What are they activated by? you know what are the sources of their lians uh within the tumor micro environment which is an environment um within the tumor it sort of says in itself but

tumor cells uh excuse me tumors in general are made up of many different types of cells so we call it an environment because it's made up of a diverse network of uh cancer cells fibroblasts immune cells blood vessel cells so um you know within the tumor we want to try and figure out you know what is the main culprit in this immune damage signal.

Yeah. Very exciting. Fatu, I know this is kind of right up your alley because you also studied cancer

uh during your during your PhD.

Yeah.

Uh do you have any questions for Dave?

I do. I have a million, but I will stick with with just a couple.

Great.

So, um Dave, are you focusing on any specific types of cancer for your research?

That's a great question. You know, it's funny. I've been getting that question more and more. Um you know, back in grad school, we f focus mainly on breast cancer.

Okay.

Um but it's interesting about um you know this aspect of of um science that we're diving into in the lab. Um this lipid that I was mentioning earlier where the enzymes translocate lipids is called phosphatidylserine

and it's actually been shown to be a pretty universal target um in many type of solid tumors. So some some liquid tumors as well meaning those that travel throughout the blood but um solid tumors which is ovarian, breast, um there are many therapies that are directed to this lipid already in various types of uh solid tumors. So for the short term, I I think what we're studying is mainly the basic biology that could be adapted to many different types of cancer.

Very nice. Awesome. Thank you for that.

Of course. Great question. Thank you.

All right. Anything else?

I think that's it for now. Thank you.

We're not going to pummel you with questions even though we know you can handle it. That's quite all right.

Anything is good by me here.

Okay. So considering all the work that you did during your PhD and then each of your postdocs, what is one thing that you just loved discovering and why?

Oh,

it's a great question.

So much discovery.

Yeah. Well, yes. Um, you know, when I was in grad school, uh, I was in, uh, Dr. Raymond Burgess's lab. Uh, a fantastic mentor.

I know we'll probably talk about him a lot um during this um this podcast, but

he was actually approached by another professor uh Dr. Aloc Chowry um in uh in PHRI at the time

and he initiated this collaboration where he had an idea that perhaps patients that uh suffered from diseases autoimmune diseases as well as viral diseases such as HIV AIDS were creating antibodies against phospholipids that could be potentially used for cancer therapeutics.

Wow.

Um ultimately um we haven't really gotten to the point yet where um we were able to harness uh that ability.

Okay.

But it led to a discovery that um we made later on where we were using already described phosphatidylserine antibodies that were being developed for cancer uh therapeutics as well as some antiviral um therapeutics and came across this experiment. experiment where we stimulated TE-C cells to see whether or not we can enhance TE- cell signaling by blocking

the interesting

one of the antibodies oddly enough did the opposite effect and shut it down completely.

So

interesting

you know it sort of led me down this path where you know we had to do this multiple times to see it but yeah

it got me really interested in phosphatidylserine biology. outside of death cells. I know that it's involved in cell death, but

activated cells also manipulate their plasma membrane in such a way to move proteins within the the membrane signal to other cells. So, um it influenced me. It it really filled me up a lot because you know after doing it multiple times, you probably have been there before where you do something once and you're like, "Okay, this might be a fluke." You do it twice, you three times. Like,

yeah,

am I seeing something? Am I actually getting data? Like

I love that. Am I actually getting data?

Like is this like something that no one's ever seen? And lo and behold, that was the case. So um it sent me down a path that got me excited about uh lipid movement in membranes outside of dying cells.

Yeah, I love those those surprising results, right? They always send you down a path that somehow you you couldn't like imagine just on your own, right? So, they kind of restructure your thinking about whatever your research is and you're like, "Oh, what about this? This is also really interesting." So, I love that,

Shekerah. Totally like paradigm shifting

moments that totally just get you jazzed about what you're doing and influence what you do later on. I I couldn't agree more.

Love that.

So, you just transitioned from postdoc to PI as we said. It's literally been Has it been a month? Has Been a month, right? About a month.

Yeah, it's Yeah, it's been a month, but it's been a long month.

So, I said you just transitioned, but it's probably more fair to say that you're still transitioning.

Yeah, definitely.

So, can you please share with us um and and with our audience what has that sort of entire experience been like for you so far? So, anything from applying and interviewing to setting up your lab and tackling the surprises that we know are going to happen. So, please share with us some of the highlights of what that has been like for you.

Yeah. Um, so, you know, it's it's kind of it's been difficult to describe at times because um when I was applying um I think you recall I was emailing you a lot.

Yeah.

Um so, no worries.

You know, I think it was it was so influential this podcast. Um, you know, first of all, identifying the different um, opportunities that were available and actually reaching out directly to some of your guests to gain more um, information about um, where I should be applying.

But I applied to this job pretty much a year ago,

mid August.

So, it's a long process. And at the time, I didn't have a flight booked home from Japan. Um, there's so much going on that um,

you know, we had somewhat of an idea that we were coming back home. Um, it was it was a difficult decision, but we decided in the end we want to settle in the United States and look for a job.

The reason why I bring that up though is because uh it's been um if you've lived in a different country, which I believe you have,

yes,

move to different cultures, you get this sort of even if you're going back home, a reverse culture shock that sets in a little bit.

Yeah.

And navigating those struggles in addition to um the job market, dealing with interviews that you don't know if will pan out, getting rejections. Um it was a tumultuous time to say the least um

for pretty much months. We came back later in December and I had one interview before going home, but then after that I had had some more interviews. But um yeah, that that not knowing sort of was a little concerning to me. And this state of science in general in the United States and the you know the the ups and downs I would say and the chaos sort of you know frightened me a little bit. I think anyone who's listening this pod can can relate to it just you know even to maybe a different extent but to a certain level.

So um it all played into that transition period but I think what happened was as time went on I was able to get the job that I really wanted

to settle in and focusing it really made me appreciate um even when things are chaotic um I'm privileged to be in a position where you know I can navigate my own ship I can teach courses that I love meet new students young young students who are excited about science so um going back to your original question about how's the transition been it's been up and down

yeah

it is everything was worth it because

being in a place where you know you love what you do um

you know you can you can work through the chaos and it does really feel like work.

Yeah.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah. Transitions tend to be tumultuous, right? And

not just like internally you don't know what's going to happen, but also those external forces that you were talking about that you have no control over,

right?

So, out of curiosity, do you have like students and postdocs and you know, lab manager and all of that yet?

Oh, sweet.

Yeah, I'm grateful to say I I do. Um, I you know, here at Satan Hall,

it's a very unique um university. in terms of what they offer their students. So just to preface the answer, I'll say

they have a lot of um M's tracks um as well as uh health professional tracks. So there's like a molecular biology dual BS masters program here.

Wow.

Um there's uh uh physical therapy, there's an occupational therapy, there's a BSMD program here where students come ultimately have a position at Hackinack University uh hospital. So Um, uh, I'm I'm leaving out a bunch of tracks, but because of that, there are a lot of students. So, for example, the biology major here, at least at the undergrad level, is almost half of like all the majors.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

And um, because of that, there are a lot of students who are interested and, you know, for professors, it's a wonderful thing because it's, you know, you have so many interesting people who are motivated to do research. So um it's been a little bit difficult even you know trying to sip through you know I can only fit so many people in the lab. So

I have two um two lab members. One of them um is a rotation PhD student.

So she's now in her second year

and is you know working her way through uh my lab. Unfortunately I don't have a lot for her because um it's still not fully built yet but

in stride and as done a lot of uh research. Um and in addition, I have a sophomore undergraduate uh student. Both of them um I was really impressed by because they reached out to me before my even before even my profile was up on Satan Hall's website.

Wow.

Already doing research on um what I had done and what I are planning what I'm planning to do.

So um but yeah, that's it. So I have two members now, but um there are plenty of other students who have reached out are excited about research. Yeah, that is so exciting. So, I always think like setting up a lab, there is so much you've got to do, right? It's I feel like it's even worse than like setting up your home, right? Um do they give you like a like a mentor to help you to figure out like what are the best companies and all of these types of things that you have to think getting equipment in and all of the different, you know?

Yeah, I that's a great I'm glad you brought that up because um It's a mix of relying on people who are here. So, I'm very close with my department chair.

Um, and in addition, um, there's a new hire here at Satan Hall that's right next to me, the office next door. She's a neurobiologist.

Yeah. Dr. Kate Ferandis. Um, we're sort of working through that together

in the midst of preparing for classes and such. So, um, we are relying on people here in the department who have had experiences, but at the same time, you know, it's it's kind of nice when of the things we've noticed is we've done our own research as well um in terms of you know for example this podcast but also there's groups that if you're interested in becoming a PI there's a Slack opportunity a group where new PIs can go to to um talk about all these details and you know you enter into these slack chats

yeah

and your network expands almost immediately you post something from around the you know around the country around the world says oh I use this and word of mouth Um,

and in addition to that, I've also tried to leverage LinkedIn. Um, you know, I think that's a big thing that's been on this podcast is LinkedIn is, you know,

is is really an effective way to do a lot of things in your professional life.

Um, getting out the WS pod announcements is one, but also I found this job

uh on LinkedIn. And

in addition to that, I actually um connected with the Satan Hall alumni who works at a lab company.

Oh wow.

Um so I connected with with him and um we we chatted over what I needed for the lab and

I just ordered a refrigerator from from his company. So

nice.

I would say uh I have I certainly have leaned on the department here but

um brought in sort of my own um you know expertise in LinkedIn that

Yeah. Great.

I love that the peer mentorship right and I didn't know about Slack channels? You know, I I heard about Slack a long time ago and I think I've used it even, but I I don't think about it like in in regular life in terms of like all the different social media and connection type of things. It's interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah. I have to actually give credit to my wife actually because she is in sales enablement

um and she's part of a Slack channel for um people who are in

uh sales enablement. Um

so um she in she planted that idea in my head. So I'm like, "Oh, maybe this is my channel for like new PIs." And I was like, "Perfect." So yeah, and actually ran into on the channel someone saw me post from my undergrad

who's also trying to be a new PI, too. So

yeah, it's a funny connection, but um

yeah, Slack channels were surprising to me. Um and I did get a lot of good ideas. Also Reddit, too, if we're being honest of a black hole in certain certain ways, but other And um there's a Reddit um community called Lab Rats

everything biology. So if you're in the lab, you know, you'll find something uh for you and it's uh it's ru lab rats.

Yeah.

Wow. So she planted the Slack idea in your head and you just planted it in mine and you know everyone else is listening. That is really really cool. I love that.

Awesome.

Very Nice. Yeah. I was going to ask um Dave, so um I know you and your wife decided to settle um in the US, so I kind of have like two questions. Um was there ever a possibility for you to become a PI in Japan? I don't know if that was something you had ever considered or what their system was like. And then also secondly, um with your new position now, do you also hope to kind of um keep a lot of those connections that you made internationally and some of your projects and work that you see going into the future? Um yes uh Fatu to both um yes I'll start with the first um

the uh opportunity was there um to proceed in in Japan.

Yeah.

You know the the style there is really interesting. The assistant professors are are truly like seen as um advanced postdocs of um senior lab PI and I think that's nice. in one context too because you do maintain some level of autonomy and flexibility. Um but you have a mentor there that's established that you could follow. So um

there was certainly opportunities for me to proceed and

yeah

um if it weren't for family reasons

um it would be very difficult to come home because we had such a phenomenal experience in Japan and

um great

even despite the language um you know the the main language there is Japanese and and English is

slowly slowly becoming uh more common but at the same time

there are um there's a lot of uh difficulties in terms of translating. So for example

I would open up a a computer and it would be all in Japanese. So it took me a while to uh it took me a while to get to where I wanted to go on a computer before learning language that things. But it also helped my kanji studies because I kanji is one of the the characters or sorry alphabets there.

I knew the kanji for new arashi it's called because I kept clicking new folder by accident. So popping up f folder. So um I uh you know little funny things but yeah I got a little off track there but yes there was an opportunity to stay. There's a heavy mentorship um the society in general is generally speaking hierarchical.

So um where where here whereas here in the United States, you know, everyone's um I would say voice and ideas are um are more equal, I guess, is the best way. I mean, that's not always I don't want to overgeneralize, but um Japanese society in general, there's a lot of respect towards uh individuals who have who's who've done this for a long time. And I think there's a aspect of that where you know you should learn from your mentors such that you can learn how to mentor others as well.

Yeah.

Um and the second a second part of your question uh

is yeah are you planning on keeping a lot of those sort of like international connections that you've made through your postdoc as you're looking you know to um you know get your lab started and future work future collaborations you know all of that

thousand% um great

Japan and beyond to be honest because

now more than ever We need scientists that are going to connect the rest of the world. Um I think now is a time where

you know um a lot of places may be closing in a little bit. Um again I'm speaking in generality gener general speech but um um I really am going to take this opportunity to sort of share my experience and Fatu I hope you as well. I'm sure you are already um and Shekerah as well. Um because you know science is what unites the world and that's sort of something that I live by. Um

and having that international experience at Japan in Japan, keeping those connections alive will be

um just a stepping stone, but one that

I really plan on taking especially here at Satan Hall where there is a very strong international program where we could foresee having student exchanges, you know, perhaps even graduate school exchanges uh in the future that um will connect

this school to other countries. So, yes, uh 100% we're going to keep in touch with uh these connections that I've developed abroad.

I love that. And I like also this this really beautiful phrase, science unites the world. I think that's something um that came up was it when we were uh talking to chemistry, Colleen.

Yeah. Yeah. And she explained like, you know, I guess the universality of chemistry. And I really really like that you also brought that back, Dave. It's really nice.

Thank you. And yeah, uh, Fatu to Shekerah, have you ever watched Star Trek?

Oh my gosh, yes.

Treky here.

He's more die hard than I am.

Oh, yeah. It's okay. Listen, you know, we all start somewhere. So, um, Shekerah, what's uh what's your Star Trek of choice?

I would have to say uh Discovery.

Oh,

yeah. I just love Sonequa. I can't just

I need Okay, so I have to admit I'm a little lagging with Discovery cuz I think that's what is that on Paramount.

It's on Paramount. They're all on Paramount actually. Uh Discovery is over now.

Um so right now the one that's current is Strange New Worlds, which I'm I am not current on Strange New Worlds.

But yeah, I love the old ones, you know, Next Generation, DS9, Voyager.

Yeah, you're in it.

I'm a total Treky.

I love that. Live long and prosper. I'm going to throw

Oh my gosh. Oh, I can't Oh, that's amazing. Um, well, I you know, I'm a I I also love Star Trek. I haven't actually seen all as many as Shekerah,

but yeah, I think, you know, the ideals of that show are really ringing true. And I think it's the beauty about fiction, science fiction in particular,

is it influences the future of science, right? I don't know if you noticed this, but Star Trek, there are so many inventions, even in the original series where um people would invent to make whatever they talked about like the transponder for example and and all these different um you know things and one of the the key takeaways for me was

ultimately an alliance of all humanity

united by science and you know one of the things I bring up in my lectures is

when you do work and you do research in science you're actually helping people that you'll never come to meet you know you're pushing forward. You know, if you're working um and publishing, you know, someone may read your paper from across the world and develop a therapy based on it or, you know, find out something about um and I'm talking mainly in health sciences, but even beyond agriculture and, you know, ecological sciences as well. You know, you're really pushing humanity forward and it's connecting and helping the entire world. So, um I know it's Star Treky in nature, so you probably understand that, but um Yeah, I mean it's real and I think a lot of us scientists can can relate to it to a certain extent.

Yeah,

I like that.

I agree. Like I can't even tell you a thousand for there aren't numbers to tell you how much I agree with that. That is my absolute favorite part of Star Trek which is why I keep going back to it over and over and over again just for that inspiration and that sort of feeling of focus and why I'm doing this right to like unite us all. Just that general idea they had. Jesus, how many years ago, decades ago, was this right? Uniting all these alien races that are so different from each other, not just in the way they look and their language, but their culture and all of these different um moralities and all of these different, you know, societal norms and everything and coming together,

coming together. How wild is that? And all of us as humans, how much do we struggle with that,

right? So,

I I love that about Star Trek. Yeah.

I Wow. Yeah. Um everything yeah everything you just said I completely agree and I and you know those of us who've watched it can understand it and

yeah

you know we just need to play Star Trek on repeat on every cell phone and and computer so everyone else understand

that's what I do that's what I do

put Star Trek on the side I'm doing whatever I'm doing on my computer

oh my gosh

yeah oh my gosh

we are like way off topic now but I love the way this but it's okay Okay, Dave, back to you and your new role. Please share what do you love most about your new role and what you do.

Um, my I have to preface it again by going back to Japan really quick. I was blessed to be visited by

the man that has sort of brought me into scientific research. His name is Dr. Yin Shengan out of Providence College.

Um, when I was a freshman on the first day of school, he pulled me in and maybe this is for the journey, but he pulled me into his lab and and couldn't take no for an answer. He said, "You're going to be doing research in my lab."

Uh, and it was

but um you know decades that was 20 uh 2010 in 2020, was it 2022? Sorry, 2023,

excuse me, 24.

Oh wow.

14 years later visit me in Japan.

Um we've stayed obviously a very good touch, but Um he told me that assistant professor this job this job as a PI he says it's complete freedom.

Ah

okay

and I couldn't understand what that meant but um

being here now about um about a month now um I've only really been teaching um for about I've been on campus now for about two weeks. I see

it's doing what you love.

You're free to lecture so long as it's B in a certain curriculum,

doing your own research,

pursuing endeavors.

Um, but I think what that also is is connection with the students.

So, you know, one of the things that I love the most about it is I'm free to do research, you know, uh, on whatever I want, but it's going to be mediated through students who want to do that research as well.

Yeah.

And those have come into contact even within two weeks

have allowed me to wake up every morning getting excited. to run to the campus because

I'm just excited to be around them and personally it's

it's just that in itself has made everything up leading up to this point in my life worth it for sure.

I like that. I like that.

Beautiful. Yeah. I love that freedom.

Freedom is so key.

Yeah.

Right. For freedom of thought and freedom to lead your research, lead your career the way that feels right to you. And um I I want to um also mention too, you know, being here at Satan Hall, it's a very interesting experience. I don't know if you know um Satan Hall is a Catholic university.

Oh, I did not know that.

I didn't know that. Yeah.

Yeah. So, their uh dioastis uh order, which is um an order of Catholicism. Um but what's interesting in the new faculty orientation is uh we had a section called the Catholic Mission U and What was fantastic was the um reiteration of academic freedom and academy so long as it's within your scope and I think that's that's great you know you know sharing personal opinions in a place of work you know is you know can be a little bit dicey but in terms of your specialized field um it's complete freedom

but what their mission is is the Catholic mission in general here is uh service to others.

Yeah.

And um I think it's such a beautiful aspect to, you know, tell your professors, you know, this is what we expect of you. We expect you of service

to others around you.

Um rather than you can't teach this, you can't teach that.

This is this is the guardrails that we're going to give you.

Um you know, you have freedom. And I think it's just it's a beautiful aspect of the school. Um and in new faculty orientation, they gave us a panel of professors here that talked about what the mission meant to them and um

Oh, wow.

Yeah, it was it was just it was wonderful. So, and research in general um is a service as I mentioned earlier in the pot.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's a very inspiring mission. It is,

right? Service to others helps you to remember the why. Why are you doing this?

I love that.

100%.

Okay. So, what have you found challenging then? So far in this role,

I know you're only like a month in.

What would you choose?

Everything. Is that an answer that I can give?

He's like, I still got my training wheels on. Everything.

Yeah. Um I'll I'll do two things. So teaching and research, if it's okay, I'll give two answers. Um

teaching wise, I have not had a lot of uh teaching experience.

So I taught um only like one master's course um at and I only lectured I didn't organize any of the grading or or or test I I contribute to test questions but it was the cell death course that Dr. Burgess ran at Rutgers

but that was 25 master students

so the material was kind of advanced

um when I came here to Satan Hall they put me on a um and they put me on I was happy to to teach it um a general biology one

with 105 freshmen Oh,

so I was like, "Oh my god, how do I

navigate

such a big course and talking about such fundamental

biology?" And here at Satan Hall, we start with organismal biology.

So I had to learn phylogenetic trees again

and go back to that. That's not my forte, but it's important. But um so that's actually the most challenging I think is adapting the material to undergraduates.

Um and 105 undergraduates to that end.

In terms of research, um you know, working with in your budget to set up a lab and executing those orders and where when you do order something, it comes into the lab, where do you put it? You know, and really tricky and I was like, oh, you know, you do I have a wonderful amount of space um in the lab. So, I was I'm lucky. enough to to say that it's just now organizing

plus find places where the students can sit um has given me a little bit of stress.

So, you know, it's been

a little bit of an adjustment for me.

You know, executing all the moving parts of staying on budget, ordering stuff that you absolutely versus something that would be kind of nice to have.

Um and then when it comes in, organizing the lab in a way that it's most effective to make it easier for the students to work, you know, having a dedicated space for electrophoresis versus

Yeah. area.

So,

um, yeah, I think that's those are my two biggest challenges in teaching as well as research.

Yeah. Cool. So, I have a question for each of those. So, for teaching, do you have TAs to help you with all of those students?

Good question.

Yes, the TAs are are wonderful. Um, They're all part of the graduate program. So, um there are masters um and PhD students, but they mainly assist with um the

grading

the labs.

Ah,

so they run the labs um the practical labs that is.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Um but in terms of lecture, um there is assistance after the lecture. So I work very closely with um a senior student here um who is called a supplementary instructor. So they call him an SI here.

So

he's been coming to some of my lectures and taking materials and has office hours where the students can go to work on their stuff. Um

yeah,

work on their studying and

um other you know going over stuff that is difficult to cover in a lecture and really outside of my office hours.

So there is there is help but in terms of like prepping the material the The help that I have gotten is from my colleagues who are teaching uh the section next to me. So there are um five sections of freshmen.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. There's a lot of lot of biology happening here at SE Hall.

Interesting.

Wow.

Yeah. So it's cool.

Yeah. So do you think you're a tough teacher or are you like easy peasy?

I'm a softy. No doubt

you're softy.

Yeah. I mean raise your hand in class. I I'm like never not going to call on you because like I love engagement and I've found that even over two weeks I've now I'm about five lectures six lectures in

it changes the entire dynamic of the course from lecture one where it's mainly just talking and people are to engage

um lecture five by lecture five it was like hands were flying um you know we were I I need to work on my timing we were like 20 slides behind by the end but But it totally changes the learning experience and I could tell from the questions that they're getting.

Yeah.

Getting it. And

Oh, nice.

You know, I just now need to adapt on,

you know, what questions to ask, how many to ask,

and then, you know, adapt that to like, let's make sure we get through the whole lecture.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's very encouraging when they ask good questions, right?

It's great. Any question really, just even like the act of raising the hand in front of people.

Like it's a big deal people and I'm

Yeah.

I'm so happy that I have a lot of those students, you know.

Yeah.

So they're brave. That's great.

Yeah.

And you're like, "Oh my god, they're listening."

They're listening. They're engaging. Like they want to say something

like that is that's like that's it. And I'm like

if that's the material aside, if that's what they can come because you know they're coming from high school these students.

Yeah.

So like entering into college and I don't know if you you know felt as going into college but you know it's kind of scary especially if you don't know

people around you you know you have to sort of start from scratch you know in terms of like the whole social aspect and it could be difficult like oh am I going to ask a stupid question but

it's like they're

they're um

not afraid you know what I mean

yeah

especially being they are sort of like the covid generation right the post the covid craziness and sounds like they're adapting really well. So,

point like Yeah. Like something that I can't understand.

Going to high school virtually is like

it's it's incredible. Yeah. It impresses me even more if that's even possible.

Yeah. Okay. So then my question now about your research. So for setting up your lab, are you doing like a vortex on every bench and like centrifuge centrifuge? Like how are you? I'm just really curious like how are you figuring out like

I need the layout.

You're asking me the question that keeps me up at night. Shekerah is that is that really what I need right now?

Vortexes and centrifuges are important.

They are extremely important. That's why that's why I'm so stressed about it. No, I'm kidding. Um no, thank you. Yeah, so that's exactly some of the stuff I'm struggling with is

um you know how to organize this. You know, what do we have? You know, luckily we've gotten some donations um both academic labs but also alumni who have passed on to

uh pharmaceutical companies,

you know. So some of the extra equipment that they don't need,

they actually they send it back to the labs that they were a part of before because they know that

that's amazing.

There's not a ton of funding um yet here at um Satan Hall in terms of like government um funding for science, but

um we're we're looking to change that for sure. Um but it's you know when you get a piece of equipment you're so great But you're like, "Okay, so where is this going? This is such a nice like I don't want this to go to waste and I want to use it,

right?

But where's it going?" But um but to your question, yes, vortex is on every bench. That's a given. It's just the vortexes be on the left side or should they be on the right side? So

Oh, boy.

Yeah.

Nice.

You're right.

Don't worry. Your students are going to move them around anyway.

Exactly right. I'm not gonna have, you know, once they move in, I think, you know, I'm gonna have to give up a little bit of my uh my power, but that's okay. As long as they're working, I'm happy.

Yeah,

that makes it easier for you. You don't have to make all of the little decisions.

Yeah.

Delegating.

So, I just have a quick follow-up question because again, this is like so interesting. So, Dave, you mentioned that this is kind of like your really first like intensive teaching experience. So, how did that now factor into deciding where you wanted to be a PI because to me it seems like you almost are jumping into something that you didn't have a lot of background in but you're really enjoying it. So is it something that you always knew you wanted to do and this was just a good fit or was it kind of just like this is an opportunity and a lot of other things are falling into place so let's let's see what happens.

This is a a perfect perfect advertisement for the We Love Science podcast.

Oh. Um, let's be honest here. You know, it's funny. I remember the podcast that, um, I remember it was Dr. Kelly Duncan at Vasser.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, when she was on, um, she made a great point of being like,

I have my teaching. I have my lab.

I'm happy.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's not an R1 university. I think she was at Vasser, but um, here this is also not R1. We're R2.

But, um, but R2 is active research. Like there's a graduate program.

Um, there is a necessity for teaching versus like a Rutgers where I don't think you need to teach as much at least

um there may be some contributions you may need at at the RBHS uh campus but

um I I was concerned about it but

okay

I think I I think I'm trying to think back to when I was when I was okay with it because

I was okay because I think you know personally I'm I'm more research focused I love research

and the teaching like okay is if I can accomplish my teaching and you know satisfy that

and that is what's giving me the opportunity to do research here I think I'd be okay with it despite

despite not knowing and as I you know

signed the offer letter and was thinking I'm like okay so now I got to prep for teaching I actually got more excited about the idea of it and

oh nice

you know at the time it wasn't necessarily Gen Bio1 that's um

okay

that's a very introductory uh to science and I wasn't so much excited to jump into that to be honest. Um you know I was like okay I don't know if I would do well in this

um I wanted to teach you know cancer biology introduce a course like cell death to this to the school and stuff that I will do later on

but I honestly I have to tell you past two weeks have been wonderful um it's been a wonderful surprise and

you're right it was a leap and

it was a leap that I think was at the time when I was making the decision it was because you know in order to do my research I will teach.

Yeah. Okay.

But I think those who are even considering it um they should take the leap because um at least for me I you know I'm surprised how much I love teaching.

Um it's only been announced five or six lectures but

yeah

it's been really fun and I think the reason why is because of it's been engaging. I've met a lot of students before and after

uh class. and they're asking me really important questions that

um I don't know if you've uh ever fell into this, you know, in a research space, but um if you go, you know, if you're stuck in a rut in research, have you ever gone to a talk or talked to a colleague or

Yeah.

Yeah.

It jazzes you up a little bit, right? And it it gets

motivated to get back into the lab and do stuff. Um and even if it's for me, like if it's about archaea, like bacteria and you know, the origins of life. It gets me into that like research and science mindset where I'm not working with those things particular, but

it's me focused on science where I could be distracted by other things um that are going on in the world that could distract me from my my research. Um so

very long-winded answer and I'm sorry, but it was

perfect your question. It was a leap. Um and it was

at that time

a means to an end in terms terms of I need to teach in order to do research.

Okay.

Because that satisfies the two requirements here at Satan Hall.

Yeah.

But I've come to now love the teaching aspect. So it's a it's a

wonderful. Yeah.

Great.

Great. So you've already given a lot of advice, Dave. But last question for this segment. What piece of advice would you give to a graduate student or a postdoc who is interested in becoming a PI at a university? Um, can I give like a two-parter?

Sure thing.

If you love it, make it your life's work.

And not everyone has that privilege, and I understand that. Um, it's very difficult. But if you can find something that you love to do, you never work a day in your life.

Um, in addition to that, lean on your network. That is probably the biggest uh point from me. But um, reach out to your favorite podcast host.

Actually, pick up the phone and make a phone call, you know. Um, I made so many phone calls during my interview stage

and it got me interviews.

Everyone can write an email, everyone can send a LinkedIn post and those are important in their own facets,

but how many people these days actually pick up the phone and call?

For real.

So true.

And if you So true.

If you are lucky enough to get an interview,

pick up your pen and write a letter and a thank you.

Wow.

Who are in positions that will that are hiring now

that come from an era where that meant a lot.

Yeah.

And um that last part again I need to leave to my wife because all top was basically like you know write write your thank you notes.

Yeah.

And she's actually known for that at her own at her own workplace for doing stuff like that. So

um yeah lean on your network. Call people write letters because even if it's not for that position, it's for another one down the road or you start you have a new friendship or

you help them out actually.

So that's the piece of advice I would give.

That is really cool advice.

I like that. Yeah, I don't think I've heard that before.

Really cool. I actually also had a followup that I forgot to ask. Um and um I forget which answer this was. You were I think it was uh talking about your challenges. You mentioned um R1 versus R2. Can you talk a little bit about what the difference between those two things are? R1 versus our two universities. Yeah.

Oh, 100%. So R1 is uh these R systems are designed to um not estimate but to to to sort of distinguish between the really high level research versus active level research and this is R1 and R2 respectively. Uh as well as uh no R class which is very little research.

Um the main difference I would say from an R1 versus an R2 is R1's typically require external funding to sustain and attain tenure.

Gotcha.

Whereas R2 is those that funding still exists and there is quite quite a bit of money dedicated to this these types of um universities like you can apply for NAH grants, you can apply for NSF grants typically NSF is is a a popular route at these universities,

but it's not you don't need to get that external funding to ultimately get tenure,

which is um a process at both R1, R2, and even beyond.

And there's typically at an R2 university a teaching requirement.

Yeah.

So then going back to that distinguishing factor, I think teaching is very important at R2 universities.

Um as well as you know, they do expect you to do re research because they have active graduate programs.

Um although they're not as big as other universities, they're still here and people are still pursuing these types of degrees. So there is a requirement for research.

Yeah.

Gotcha. That's an interesting distinction and I think important too because at R2S you have to do a lot more teaching

but you then spend less of your time applying for grants because it's not 100% necessary to do your research. Right.

100% 100%. And um in addition to that too, some RU our R our two universities

um stick with the like college or undergraduate schedule.

So they're about month they're nine month contracts but you have typically throughout the 12 months.

Um summers are very flexible.

Um and if you don't have to teach over the summer and you don't have to necessarily write grants typically that's when people do write grants is over the summer because teaching

but you know you sort of have the freedom to do research or just explore. You know, there's really there's no requirement to to work over those months.

Although that's when the teaching dies down, that's when really the research gets done. So that's also something to consider as well.

Excellent. Thank you for that. Fatu, any additional questions for this segment?

Nothing additional for me. This is really good. Thank you, David.

Oh, thank you for having me.

Yeah, incredibly incredibly informational. I learned a lot. I have to Me, too.

So, we're going to finish up the work segment, everybody, with our little game, hosts on the hot seats.

I love this. That sounds like the It sounds like the piece of pork over my uh ton of hot soup.

Oh my god,

I love that. That's funny.

We'll bring it full circle, right?

All right. So, Dave, I know you got a question for us.

I do. So, I know Fatus is already ready. She's always ready.

Born ready.

Okay.

And I'm ready. What do you have for us?

Uh, I have two questions.

Oh, you have two questions. Look at that. All right.

Um, is cell death a good thing or a bad thing?

Well, it depends on the context, I suppose.

Yeah.

I would say it's a good thing, right? It's important for turnover. No.

Yeah. I would also say it's a good thing because I'm going back to like um developmental biology. Y and there's a lot of cell death involved in that. Yeah.

A thousand. Oh, yeah. Perfect. Exactly. Turnover.

Yes.

And development. So, I guess two-parter there is.

Yeah.

So, yeah, answer is correct. By the way, I don't know if you in terms of turnover. Yeah. So, within a tissue, let's say, you know, there's an injury that occurs on your skin, right? There are these, you know, cells that undergo cell death and are taken up and immune system sort of eats those dying cells and um you know uh prevents a systemic immune response. Neutrophils um are a good example in terms of turnover where you know they're produced but their half-life are like within days and they eventually die out. So we get fresh Neutrophils

um every couple of days or even a couple hours even I may be exaggerating it might be hours.

Um and then in development yeah I mean you know as we probably know Fatu you mentioned you know a growing human body has webbed hands.

Yeah.

That alter digits um

eventually undergo programmed cell death to sort of shape

shape the hand itself. So

awesome. So A+ to both of you.

Yes.

And this leads me to number two. So the human body is composed of about 30 trillion cells.

Oh my god.

How many cells die every second?

Oh my god. Come on. You could have made this one multiple choice. Dave, now we got to do here. Now we got to do math. Now we got to do math.

Yeah, but please take out your calculators.

No, maybe like an estimate.

Okay, I'm gonna guess I feel like it's high, but I'm going to guess like 30%.

30%. Okay.

Yeah.

So 30% of three trillion would be a trillion cells.

A trillion cells. Yeah. What do you think in Shekerah?

What did you say? Every second.

Every second.

Every second.

Good god. Uh, I don't know. 10%.

10%. Okay. So, is that three? Uh, no. Yeah. Three trillion.

Yeah. Three trillion. Yeah.

Um, believe it or not, it's it's I I I sort of set you up because and this is anchoring principle in like Okay, perfect. Because I said 30 trillion, but it's a little bit lower, but it's 1 million cells per second. uh

died by cell death.

Um which is still very very high but almost you know when you talk about the trillions that means that 86.5 billion cells die every day in our body.

Wow.

It's amazing to think that way and really that doesn't even include our microbes. Do you know how many microbes roughly are in and around us?

It's more than the cells. I know that much.

Yeah. So we're like

Yeah. Please.

I was going to say I was like, we're mostly bacteria.

We don't like to think of ourselves that way, but we are.

Nailed it. You absolutely nailed it. Yes, we're mostly Yeah, we're mostly bacteria and micro than human. Yeah, like I have I have estimates of 38 trillion uh microbes. Go. But going back to your original estimates

where um it was in the trillions of cell death, like we're not accounting for,

you know, the dying microbes as well. Although it's not technically because what came later.

Um there's a lot of death going on in our bodies.

Um and it may be a morbid thing, but it's actually keeping us alive. So I like to bring up that paradox of

death is actually what's keeping us alive.

Yeah.

Yeah. It gives us that nice new like soft baby skin that we all love, right? We got new cells, you know? That's why people do the peels on our faces to get this soft glowing new skin.

Beauty all you Beauty people very important.

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

Dave, thank you so much for those very excellent questions and thank you so much for chatting with us today. We had a lot of fun talking with you.

Thank you for having me again. It's been an honor and um

I really appreciate you having me on um to talk about everything really. So, thank you.

Yeah.

Excellent. So, before we jump into the journey segment, can you please share how people can reach you if they would like to? Absolutely. Um perhaps in um I think the easiest way I guess is uh through LinkedIn or email.

Um so my LinkedIn you can find me uh as my name. Um I haven't really changed my profile yet to Satan Hall. I'm still like working on my post because I want to start you know really thanking people who brought me here. So you'll see that hopefully by the t the time the podcast comes out I'll be up there.

Um in in addition to that you can find me um through the seat and hall website. My email is listed there. David.calionshu.edu.

Great.

And I have an Instagram

um with three pictures on it.

Nice.

That Instagram handle is @DCbiolab.

Oh, DC.

I like that.

Stands for dead cell.

Nice. I like that. I like that. Thank you. Thank you so much. So, we will include those everyone in the show notes. so that you can find it. Thanks everyone.

Thank you.

Okay, so we'd like to say thank you to our listeners for supporting the podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, and share. To learn more about our guest journey, be sure to listen to the next Journey episode. And you can reach out to us by email at lovesciencepodcast@gmail.com. Please send any questions, comments about the show, or suggestions for guests that you'd like to hear on the show. We'd love to hear from you. And Until next time.

Am I actually getting data…