Ep 85: The International Academic - The Journey

We continue our conversation with David Calianese on his journey to teaching, research, and academia. David’s interest in biology and helping people started in high school with an opportunity to work as an emergency technician basic (EMT-B) providing care to patients in ambulances. It sounded exciting, but nothing could have prepared David for his first call responding to a woman in active labor in her living room. There wasn’t enough time to take her to the hospital, and he and his colleagues jumped straight to work helping the new mother have a safe and successful delivery. While this experience was a shocking eye-opener for then 16 year old David, it really ignited his ambition to study biology with a focus on pre-med. “It was luck and happenstance, truly,” David explains as he reflects on his first laboratory experience at Providence College. Very unexpectedly, during his first few days as an undergrad, David was approached by a friendly and eager professor to join his research lab; and even quicker than he could blink, David found himself deeply immersed in academic research. From his journey to high school and college and even graduate school at Rutgers University, David had a variety of mentors who helped guide him down his path and open up doors for a number of new experiences, including the big move to Japan. David’s adventure in Japan started with the daunting thought, what the hell did I get into, but he credits the support of his wife and the new friends they made to an unforgettable and rewarding experience in the new country. The best advice David would give his younger self, looking back at his very adventurous journey, is to have patience because we often have more time than we think. In his spare time, David enjoys playing board games like Dungeons and Dragons, or Wingspan; and bird watching with the Merlin app. 

If you missed it check out the previous episode

Check out the latest episode on the website: https://welovesciencepodcast.com 

Tune into this episode to hear David’s perspective on:

• Why he joined the EMT service as a teenager
• His first experience at a scientific research conference as an undergraduate student 
• The transition from life in the US to working as a post-doc in Japan 
• What has been the thorn and bud along his journey so far

Reach out to David on

• LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidcalianese/
• Seton Hall website: https://www.shu.edu/profiles/calianda.html 
• IG: @DCBiolab

If you enjoyed this episode, also listen to:

Ep 27: From Post doc to Assistant Professor - The Journey

Chapters

• 1:05 Did you have a science spark?
• 9:10 How did your career journey unfold through your formative years?
• 14:33 Did you have any influential mentors during your journey?
• 19:49 Tell us more about your experience working and living in Japan
• 28:49 What advice would you give your younger self?
• 30:33 Rose, Thorn, Bud
• 38:24 Life Lights
• 44:00 How to reach Dave

Transcript

This is the journey. This is the journey.

Welcome back to We Love Science podcast. This is the journey episode. Here, our guest star shares more about their discovery of science and how mentors and experiences shaped who they are today. To hear more about the work associated with this journey, please check out the previous episode.

Hi everyone and welcome back to the show We Love Science. Our guest today is Dr. Dave Calianese, a fellow Rutgers alum who just completed the transition from postdoc to PI and we are so excited that he is starting his new lab at Satan Hall University. So Dave, we're going to jump into the journey segment of our conversation. So this is kind of where we start at the beginning of the beginning of the beginning and then you tell us how you got to where you are now. So we're going to take a little trip down memory lane, but I think it'll be just as fun as the last episode. that we just had with you regarding your work.

Right.

So, let's get started. Did you have any science spark moments growing up or like any science wow moments? What really got you into wanting to go into research and like discovery and all of that?

Yeah. Um, it's amazing. I'm going to preface this by saying I've been listening to everyone's journeys and been impressed by so many of them who at a young age got so psyched about science through Mhm.

All different factors. Um I have to say I'm a little bit of a late bloomer.

Um it it was u mainly in high school uh where I was excited uh to be I was excited about science. Really great.

Um I had a wonderful AP bio teacher

um who who introduced me to the world. But I think believe it or not

it was my mom I have to say thank you to

not because she's a scientist. Um although it's interesting I have two younger sisters. who are both um a PA and an OT um in in the medical field. Um but she said for my college resume um I should become an EMT.

Oh,

so the funny thing about that is um I took the course and one of the requirements was to volunteer certain hours in order to get the certification.

Okay.

And one of the things I didn't anticipate was actually falling in love with becoming an EMTB or an EMT basic.

Okay.

Which is

which is uh an emergency medical technician. Um and a basic uh version of that is the people who ride around the ambulances and transport the hospital.

Um yeah, our EMT's job is to provide first aid. Um and pretty much the main job is to transport I would say to a hospital. Um, we work we I haven't practiced I haven't been there in a long time, but EMTs work hand in MTBs work handinhand with paramedics or EMTs

um who provide uh potentially life-saving care as well like but prescribe or excuse me can give medications we could at the time only administer prescribed medications like nitroglycerin and stuff that were involved with like preventing heart attacks but

okay

but I'll never forget studying that uh in that course. And funny enough, when it was my first time on the ambulance as an EMTB,

um my first ever EMT call was a woman giving birth on her living room floor.

Oh my gosh.

And I was 16 years old and I

16 and a half at the time. And I was, as you would probably imagine, especially being a young kid, um it I grew up very quickly that day. Yeah.

Like and it was like

it was amazing to me because

you know there was so much responsibility and I wasn't by myself thankfully but there were crew chief and and other people around but

you know just seeing the appreciation in the family's

you know um family's eyes and what they said and you know sending letters to the ambulance corps I was like I was hooked. I was like okay I need to do something like this. for the rest of my life. Um, so I decided to become a biology major uh in college because of my experience.

I love that. Oh my gosh, you were like a child. Like I just like I feel like you know I Okay, aging myself. I will say now, but like when I think about 16, that seems so far away, right? I'm just like, oh my gosh. And then when you also mentioned, you know, like um your teaching It's undergrads, right? I'm like, all of these people were born after like 2005. Like, I can't even like Right. Rounded.

When was 2005?

Girl, 2005 was like 20 years ago. Like, listen,

so funny. But yeah, to your point, like, yeah, I was a kid and um

literally

and you know that poor husband who was looking at me being like, "This is who we have. You know, it was funny and um it was it was beautiful um in the end and you know it really that was if it wasn't a spark it was like gasoline on gasoline

you know was was from there and it was

you know at the time for me my passion was was healthcare so

um I was a bio major expecting to go um premed.

Yeah. Yeah. A recurring theme that we have also seen. Nice. I love that

that That was so incredibly brave, I think, for you to be able to do at What was I doing at 16? Oh my goodness. Watching TV.

Like I can't think of one thing that was as important and impactful as that. So, I'm impressed.

Very sweet. That's very sweet of you to say, but I hate to say like especially being brave. Like I didn't have a choice when I was on the ambulance. Like we were going and I was like, "Oh my god. Oh my god. Is this gonna" And it's funny cuz when when we were going to the call, the crew chief was like, "Oh, yeah. It's usually just labor, you know, we'll just transport the mother to the hospital."

Um, but by the time we got to the house, it was uh pretty far along. So, um, there was no ability at that time. So,

wow.

Yeah. But it was funny. So, I mean, bravery is I guess like, you know, being thrown into the fire and just

figuring it out. And, you know, thankfully there were other people there. So, it was it worked out. So,

did you keep and carry on. Dave,

uh I looking back it was it's it's also very it's weird. It's very easy to remember but also very hard some details

because I remember the feeling of being like

oh my god like I was maybe a little bit pale on the ride over but

my colleagues talked me down and a lot of like people who are senior in these EMT

organizations um you know the one that I volunteered for was Triboro Ambulance core at Montville, Wook of Lake.

Okay.

And um Park Ridge, they were they are an incredible organization filled with people who have so many experiences on ambulances. And

yeah,

they reached out to me after every difficult call. That one was actually a very nice one

um because in the end there was a happy baby and a happy family.

So, but you know, there were obviously some difficult ones um

that there was maybe nights I would come back and um my the crew chief at the time would reach out to the community and say, "Hey, this kid is young.

Um, this Dave Dave, you know, I couldn't really get a gauge of if he was doing okay or not." And I would get my phone flooded with phone calls being like, "Hey, how are you doing?"

You know, do you want to talk about anything?

Um,

it was my first dive into that a little bit. We talked about this earlier about that service aspect.

Um, being part of something that's greater um, and a community that is focus on keeping everyone safe and and h happy and healthy.

Um and also just like the the maturity level goes up like you know people who deal with these and you know people when they look to you and they say oh

you know I need your help um it it really requires you to

mature and you know you sacrifice a little bit of like innocence for it but especially you know in high school but

it's you know it's important and people that we need people to volunteer. So if anyone's listening out there and has the time to become an EMT, there are plenty of volunteer ambulance cores that are looking for it. So, I'd recommend it.

Super. Super. Great. Thank you for that, Dave. So, tell us more about your career journey. Um, I really like this, you know, starting point of being an EMT, which happened around your high school years. And you said that that kind of, I wouldn't even say sparked, but maybe we could just like say exploded your interest in biology and wanting to go to med school. So, then as an undergrad, you were premed and then what evolved from there over time to now get you more into like research and doing a PhD.

Yeah. Um it it was all luck and h happen stance truly. And when I say that um it was my first day on at college. I went to Providence College in Rhode Island. Um and I was literally looking from where I was having biology class. So I got lost in the halls of of my biology building and a boisterous uh professor comes barreling out of his lab and sees me and yeah boisterous I mean you know if you meet him one day you'll know what I mean um and he's he's a wonderful wonderful man and startled me and said hi like who are you are you a freshman and I said yes he's like come come see my lab and um brought me in his name Dr. Yianshing

um and he

basically gave me like a a quick rundown interview about what I want to do with my life and says,

"Yeah,

live meeting's on Tuesday. Come."

And I was like, "Okay."

Um, and you know, it really struck something in me being like, "Oh, I'm doing research so I can, you know, tell my patients one day, you know, I'm, you know, I'm involved in research." I didn't really think it was a career at that point.

Okay.

Um, but during my sophomore year of college, um, I was able to, uh, put together a poster, um, that we were prepping for a paper and I flew got to Chicago to the American Association for Cancer Research, AACR annual meeting in 2012

and um it was my first trip to Chicago and I was by myself for work. So as a kid I was like, "Oh wow, this is like the coolest thing." Um

but then I show up and have you been to an AACR or

Yes.

Isn't it incredible like how big?

Huge.

Huge. Right.

Huge. Yeah. And I I my little 19-year-old brain couldn't process like how many people actually did cancer research. And that was only the people who showed up to the conference.

So I was my god. So there were people from other countries, there were people from foreign companies, people from academic universities, there was all this swag at um the uh you know with the the different company booths where you get like the shirts and stuff. So I gotta tell you, I was I was taken it back because a lot of people weren't necessarily like physician. There were plenty of doctors there but like there were also plenty of researchers and I didn't until then realized that um I uh wanted to do research or that was even possible.

Yes. Yes.

And I know I'm going on a little bit of a tangent here but this is the last thing I'll say about AACR is

there was a stu there was a a a symposia for undergradu that I was um involved in. So, it was me and other students

and who was the leader of that uh caucus but uh Dr. Kathleen Scott. Do you know Dr. Scott by chance? She's the vice chancellor of research at RBHS and um dean of biomedical studies at Ruckers.

Nice.

And at the time it was D&J. So, she could be her card at uh AACR.

And when I came back to Ruckers, I reconnected with her. and um you know sort of going back to that point like you know you you never know who's going to pop up back in your life years later. So it's really important to keep keep your connections alive.

Um but I really felt during that symposia I was like contributing to something another back to that community- based um aspect we were talking about. I was contributing to something greater

you know I was a major wheel you know that was moving the world forward.

So I really like that. Yeah. And I want to say Dave, I feel like I'm noticing a pattern. Like I like how you're saying, you know, a lot of it was like luck and happen stance, but I feel like a lot of it was also literally just being thrown into things and not having a choice.

So true. So true. Yes. Honestly, yes. And you know, thank goodness for those those people who do that, you know, like you're you're right on a batu. Like Dr. Juan, if anything, he literally threw me into everything. and just like he's gonna figure it out. And you know, EMT was like, you're an EMT now. You know,

you do an you act like an EMT, you just got to do it. And you know, going to Japan was another thing. My you know, my mentor,

I don't know if we'll get to this eventually, but my mentor sort of

just was like, you know, when this opportunity arose, he's like, just do it.

Yeah.

You know, you know, don't worry about the language. Don't worry about the culture. You're going to figure it out.

Do it and it's going to be great. And he was right. He was right.

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So, okay, I think that's a really nice transition, Dave, into these next two questions. So, let's talk a little bit about mentors. Um, you know, who were some of the influential mentors you had during your career journey? And then because you also just mentioned one of your influential mentors helped you, you know, to make this decision to go to Japan, let's also then have that kind of like be the follow-up question. So, let's start first with who were some of the influential mentors you had during your career journey? Yeah. Um, but there were so so many of them that I'm afraid I'm going to leave some out, but I'll I'll give you some of the heavy hitters if that's okay.

Um, so the first one, Dr. Yin Shenguan, um, he

it's the guy at Providence that that really got me to research and got me for the rest of my life. He also introduced me to my one of my best friends, uh, Garrett, who was my roommate, and um, we were in the same lab and which was a funny dynamic. We would go from lab back to our apartment.

Yeah. um you know he now works at New England Biolabs at in Ipsswich Mass probably NEB

um he also went on to do his PhD at Boston College um

other than Dr. Juan uh Dr. Kathleen Scott

um I have to bring her up again because

um during the early interview stages of um at Ruckers she she was very influential in in getting me opportunities at Ruckers

um and later on we crossed paths again uh at the New Jersey Commission on Cancer Research or NJC.

I was able to be funded, they funded my P-DOAL um fellowship. So they were

taking the financial burden off my mentor to allow me to do my research

and you know just connected me to cancer biologists from around um

um around the the the tri-state area particularly in New Jersey, New York.

Um and I heard some amazing talk talks at the annual meeting and got to meet some medical providers, you know, even one of the oncologists that were that was part of the NJCCR

um treated my my best friend's um father's cancer.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. And it was just incred. It was happen stance again, you know.

Yeah.

Overlap, but you know, those two mentors connected me with other people. Um but you know, when I got to Ruckers, it would also my network expanded. completely completely because of uh Dr. Raymond Burge. There are very few people that have had such a profound impact on my life than than Dr. Bur and um you know it's amazing

he he is the type of guy who everyone loves him

um you know fantastic

he's amazing person um there are people that that he came across at his time he worked at Rockefeller for his postdoc

that

still is in touch with I mean all those years ago um that have gone to the private industry who have gone to Wall Street who have gone to have gone to the their own labs at other universities

but also co-founded uh an organization called the international cell death society.

Oh

so there is a society

that's international on cell death. It's a little morbid.

Yeah a little bit

a little morbid but as we've covered in the previous pod uh cell is a good thing.

Yes.

Uh in its context.

Um but it was an international group of people

that he was willing to share

with uh us as in his students

and um I took a trip one year out to Soul, South Korea

um for a conference. It was an annual meeting in South Korea and

um that's when I heard um a talk given by Dr. Shi Kazu Nagatada um who would be my postdoc mentor. Um he is um if you don't know Dr. Nagata he's a rock star in cell death

um he called interferon alpha alpha

oh he did wow

he identified fast and fast receptor I don't know if you know fast lens

um his lab identified that multiple phospholipid enzymes that are foundational and are heavily conserved to even the um higher ukarots or older ukarots um he identified in his lab as well as GSF. I mean there are tons of you know fundamental discoveries that he founded and I was able to talk to him

through uh ICDS and I remember Ray telling me Dr. Burge telling me

that's doc that's that's she is that's what he goes to his you should go and talk to him

and I spent 30 minutes with him and little did I know at the time this is 2017 that yeah

in 2021 I would send him a FedEx in my CV and asked for a position and then I found myself on a plane

and because of Dr. Burge that that opportunity came about and you know through that experience my wife now has best friends in Japan.

I love that these mentors you know.

Yeah. Excellent. So um can you speak a little bit more to what that experience was like for you know transitioning to Japan and and being a postdoc there?

Uh Yeah. Uh, I could talk about it for years. Um, but it was amazing. Um, personally, um, first of all, I needed to get my wife on board and it took all of would you ever live in Japan and that was it. She was

I love that. I love that.

I would love to.

I mean, I was lucky in that regard because um, it's a big deal. It's a big move and I asked her to really take a risk a little bit for her career,

but she I know even to this day she probably wouldn't admit that it was because it's something that she's always wanted to do, live abroad. So,

um but for me it was, you know, living abroad was important certainly because it was important to both of us, but

um

mainly it was working with Dr. Nagada like um and working at his lab. Um

but you know, I didn't really consider it until actually going um there. I I you know, it really set into me because I didn't know the language. I didn't really know much about the culture. But I remember waking up in the hotel room

the the day after our flight and I look out the window and I see

Japan and I'm like what the hell did I get myself into here? I never even after our interview like I my over email and I didn't know anyone in the lab.

It was I broke all the rules about you know if you are looking for a postdoc, I recommend you speak with your PI beforehand and meet some people in the lab. I did none of that.

Okay.

And it was kind of a it was a it was risky. And

yeah,

um I remember looking out the window the day we we you know landed.

Yeah.

And my wife's asleep and I'm like,

"Oh my god, what did I just get us into?"

Yeah.

And little did I know, it was probably the best decision that we made uh together because It worked out in the end and that that sense of adventure carried both of us

through a lot of cultural hiccups like the language.

Yeah.

But meeting the lab um the mata lab you know I'm like I struggle to even talk about it because I'm still going through the process of saying goodbye to them.

You know

they're a beautiful group of people

um that you didn't speak a lot of them didn't speak English. Um Okay. To begin,

um, but were more than welcoming to me. Um, you know, I made best friends there, too.

Um, you know, my my my good buddy uh Hiroyuki Ishiawa

really was he actually worked for a pharmaceutical company

that was working in um Nagata Sensei is what what we refer to him over in Japan, his lab. So, Dr. Nagata's lab.

And he spoke English and not only helped me in the lab, But any personal

experience became just generally speaking became one of my best friends. Um

without those people I wouldn't be able to to to get my stuff done. But but it was very different. When I showed up in the lab I everyone had to take off their shoes. You had to put on slippers or inside shoes.

I love it.

I love it. I love it.

Every Wednesday we had chores. So I was mopping the lab. I was vacuuming. I was dumping out water.

Okay.

Um and every every week we had two lab meetings and it was a general lab meeting and a progress report for um the graduate students and postocs and assistant professors.

So you know it was it was amazing and meeting Dr. Nagatada um in person

um

while I was part of his lab was a very different experience from uh the the general light-heartedness of our initial meeting.

I was there to work

and you know when I became part of his lab

it was surprising at the time the intensity

uh that accompanied that

but the mindset that I used to like

uh sort of calm myself down a little bit was like this is kind of like an adventure

and you know If things don't work out here, the worst thing that I could say is that I tried something very difficult and failed and that's okay.

But it was very successful for from a professional and also personal standpoint. And um

you know, I know I went on a long tangent there as well, but

that's okay. We like the tangents.

That's right. Okay, good. I'm sorry. But um that was the transition process was going from what the hell did I get into?

Yeah.

Meeting people that helped me along the way,

getting the expectations of getting into a new lab in a new culture.

Yeah.

Um down

and then ultimately later becoming successful two two and a half years down the road.

Um say that I wasn't successful all the time,

right?

Um you know, there were many successes, but overall when I when we come back to the United States, Caroline and I both look back on that timing like wow things just worked out and you know it was really because of the people that helped us when we were there um that we you know we made it happen. We put in the work. Um my wife and I on the last day in Japan took the Japanese language proficiency exam and

okay

I to report I am at the level of a first grader in Japan.

You You know what? That baby Japanese will take you far. It's okay, David.

But to be honest, like that's only on paper. I am not at the level of a first grader uh in Japan.

Yes.

But my wife is like amazing. So, she took like two levels higher than I did.

Oh, wow.

Excuse me, one level, but she could have taken two levels higher than I did. Um, and she's really, really great. And it's carried her. She uses her Japanese um in uh her current company. that has an international presence.

So, um you know for both of us it was it was great and you know when you get those experiences where you can

you know have like a dual benefit to your uh whatever setup you have um you know those are the the experiences that you should look for because

yeah

you know in my personal opinion because that you know um you know you both can grow.

Yeah, I really like that. I really like that.

Yeah, Dave, I think a lot of the experiences that you had when you were younger just sort of being thrown into the deep end and you know learning how to swim gave you a sense of adventure. I think it really did because you were just like I'm going just step out on this ledge. I'm sure I can fly. I'm sure I can oneway ticket. Let's go.

I'm getting a little confused here because I'm forgetting I'm on a podcast and not in a therapy session because like Yeah, I think you're uncovering something but Yeah, it is funny. Yeah. And you know I you know g getting thrown into something can be like stressful in the moment but it is when you look back I mean I don't know if you've had exper I'm sure you've had experiences yourselves um that you've gone through these scenarios and you look back and wow I'm so grateful

for that person and you know you know and even certain people I've heard on this podcast

they get a rejection

and you know from a you know a position and you're like that was the best thing that happened to me. moment it didn't feel like that.

Yeah.

But like there are scenarios like that where you're like, "Oh, I'm not ready for this, but I'm going to just get thrown in and do it." I'm feeling that a little bit now because instead of me looking up to others to for for guidance, you know, I need to switch to that mode where it's reversed. Um I don't know if I'll be successful here. I there's no there's no fact. But what I will know and given my experience is there are going to be people here that are going to help me that I may not have may not recognize right now. some I may do. Um but looking back later in life, I'll look back and say, "Wow, if it wasn't for that person doing that thing, I wouldn't have,

you know, done something, you know."

Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. So for um the last question um for the journey segment, considering your journey Dave, which has been I think all over the place, but in a very good way, what advice would you give your younger self? Looking back,

oh uh yeah, be patient.

Oh,

patience is everything.

Um to me at least, you know, there were many times in college where I was like

I felt like I needed to get everything done and if things didn't work out like my life would go off haywire. But I don't know if you've noticed this, as time goes on,

yeah,

time sort of expands and you realize that four years is a blip. And you know 40 years is normal like something like that.

Yeah.

Because back in the day you know I think even in college like you know my chemistry I did not do well in chemistry and um I got I think I got a C

in my freshman year chemistry and I remember like being on the phone with my parents being like I don't think I'm going to get into med school now.

And I was like

that this is it. Like it was all down to this grade.

But I didn't realize like even if I wanted to do med medical school like didn't that C didn't matter it what mattered was

what happened later like what did I do and was I patient enough to say if I really want this I'm going to take the time to accomplish it it's not going to happen as quick as I want but you know patience is key especially in those moments where you think the world is coming down just reminding yourself that there's always you know time for more time than we think oftentimes I like that. I really like that. So, for our last question on uh on the journey segment, we're bringing back an oldie but goodie Rose Thorn Bud, which which any OGs out there who've been with us from day one, you know this.

I'm there. I'm there.

Awesome. So, um Dave, basically, we want you to describe two roses. So, what are two things that you would say are your biggest successes? is best opportunities or highlights of your career so far. One thorn, what is one disappointment? And one bud, what is something you're looking forward to in the future?

So, I'm going to say rose rose. So, two roses I'll bring up. And this is I'm going to try because there are a lot of things in my life that I look back on, but I'm career focused. I would say um

getting into graduate school was a big deal for me. And I think even before getting into graduate school, it was um applying Because the mindset was for me, I'm taking something that I thought I really wanted and going for something that I found along the way that I I know I'm going to love.

And then ultimately taking that mental step was I think a success for me.

Great.

Um the second big success I think is probably the most recent.

Yeah.

You know um getting to this point um and you know it was through Japan um where I'll say is another success like you know being able to go over there create a family and friend network u meet and network with people from all around the world and coming back here and then being able to secure a position and I now you know come to my office and you know I can't believe I'm getting paid to do what I do now and um it's such a privilege

um and I'm so lucky and grateful for everyone that

you know a lot of people we've covered on the podcast but a lot of people I didn't cover to be here. Um, but I it's just gratefulness is for where I'm at right now, I guess, is my my second rose is my success.

Yeah. And then for the thorn and the bud, what's one disappointment and one thing you're looking forward to?

Uh, can I mention the disappointment that um it didn't necessarily it didn't go well, but it was just a disappointment.

Um, leaving places.

Um, that's my that's my thorn is like saying goodbye to people who were so foundational um particularly in the career setting leaving your labs um you know ultimately there are very few instances where you stay at one place for for a long period of time

that's true

um so the one lab you know I needed to graduate college and there was no opportunity to stay but

I had to say goodbye for

for a short period of time

um my Rucker lab um which is currently evolving constantly you know there are new people that are coming in and out but they all feel like we worked together even though we never overlapped.

Um, going to Japan and saying goodbye to them.

Um, and most recently the most raw that I felt in a long time

saying goodbye to family and friends in in Japan

and coming here. Um,

you you don't realize how much you rely on people other people until you're put in a scenario where you can't speak a language. Like there are so many people that were so willing to take us in. Um, we've met we made friends that worked at the convenience store down the street and are now our best friends.

Um, you know, we made

uh family connections inside and outside the lab um that you know were amazing and you know this is not even this is just for me. I mean my wife has her

friends and family that network that she created

but you know the thorn heavy thorn is

in order to grow you need to you need to move on and do different things. Um, but it's it's never easy. It's

when it is e when it is easy, it it you know, you should celebrate it because you're moving from a situation that you didn't want to be in. But when it's not easy, it doesn't mean that it's the wrong thing. It it means that

you've done a wonderful thing. So that's my thought is saying goodbye.

Yeah, that's got us in our feelings, Dave. But I I appreciate that. I do appreciate that. a little emotional here, but you know, it's it's a it's a real thing.

Yeah. And then what's something you're looking forward to?

Oh, well, I think, you know, I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next. Um, but I I have to say my bud um is going to be um the students, you know, um

it's it's difficult now, especially like in the environment of science being what it is today. You know, science, I think to a certain extent we can all agree, is is facing struggles um you know that it hasn't faced in a long time

um due to a variety of uh situations you know I'll keep it general but um just seeing young kids being excited about material and being excited to learn about

origins of life and you know emailing to say hey you know I want to do research in your lab

yeah

that is my butt you know it's not me it's not what I'm going to do in the lab it's literally watching what the young are getting into and we're going to do. So,

you know, it's such a beautiful thing because the people who dictate, you know, what science is today are not going to be the people who are going to be dictating it later on. So,

yeah,

being able to be positive about what you're seeing from a classroom perspective and in the lab, I think is uh totally my bud. You know, it gives me a lot of hope for the future.

Wonderful. Thank you for all those, Dave. Shekerah, any additional questions for this segment?

No question. questions. But I really have to say, Dave, that thorn is the most beautiful thorn.

Okay.

Ever heard I do not believe it qualifies as a thorn. Sorry.

I think you did. Rose, rose, rose. But yeah, that was a beautiful thorn. And it really goes to I think appreciating where you are and, you know, shows how much you appreciate the opportunities that you have and make the most out of them. I think it really shows that about you. So that was Thank you for that. It was beautiful.

Well, thank you for saying that, Shekerah. And you know, I'm going to look back on this podcast and be like two years ago, I was sitting over a cell culture. I was sitting on my at my cell culture hood, my earbuds in hearing your voices talk about food and getting hungry while I was doing lab work in the lab. So, thank you for that.

But, you know, honestly, like introducing me to other things and, you know, It's it is important when you bring up like knowing where you are and appreciating things around you like

I think that's another thing I want to talk about or like sort of end with like this rose rose but thorn Yeah.

is you know that perspective

if you can uh appreciate where you are it will change your life

because you know it it influences what you'll do in the future.

Yeah.

And not what you'll do but also what other people do you know by sharing your stories on podcast like this. I don't know if someone's going to relate to this or not, but um you know, maybe if it's one person that hears something from it that goes on to do something, it

it's a huge difference.

So yeah, I think that's a great point is like appreciating where you are is,

you know, it's a gift really.

Yeah.

Yeah. Wonderful.

Yeah. Excellent. Excellent advice. So our final segment is our fun way to end our conversation and also a way to give a view of you Dave outside of your work and we call it lifellight light.

I'm just going to start remixing that thing.

Extra pops.

Extra pops. I love that.

Extra pops. So Dave, please share with us what brings light and enjoyment to your life outside of your work.

Oh, okay. So there's a lot of things. No doubt. Excellent. Um, you know, spending time with family is great.

Um, but I'm going to bring up one scenario, give you a look into uh

uh what weekends look like in our household. Um, we have recently enjoyed this like new and we as in me and my wife newfound appreciation for bird watching.

Oh. Oh.

And it was really stimulated by one of my biggest hobbies. I'm a big board game board gamer.

So, I like different board games. I like to play games like Dungeons and Dragons and all different things.

Okay.

Huge, huge nerd when it comes to that.

But um this one game, Wingspan, have you ever heard of Wingspan?

No.

Oh, it's an amazing board game. So, it's a board game about um birds. Um and these beautiful cards that show different birds and they give little facts and the idea of the game is you want to try and build your aviary in this, you know, um in the woods, in the swamplands and as well as in the grasslands.

Okay.

And all the you know you know ecosystems fit with the birds. So um it really made us like understand the different type of birds that exist here in the United States. So we've since gone out of the game and gone out and appreciated now birds that surround us.

Wow.

So we have amazing amazing app called Merlin. Have you ever heard of me? Oh, please download Merlin.

Okay.

Yeah, maybe. U Merlin. Uh M E R L I N.

Oh, Merlin.

Okay. Oh, okay.

It's from Cornell Labs. But you now when you hear a bird chirping in the background,

get the audio and it'll tell you what birds are around you.

What?

Yeah, it's amazing.

Wow.

So, we play those games on the weekends. Uh we haven't played this morning, but um probably later.

Uh and then we go out, we go for a walk, and then we pull out our app and figure out what birds are around us. So, that's been definitely a lifelike for sure.

I like that.

Very cool. You are the second bird watcher we've had in recent episodes.

I feel like we need to get into that, Shekerah. Clearly, it's a thing and we're we're missing out.

Well, um if you don't mind pulling it out, uh when you're walking around where you live and you can like text us where what type of birds are there. You take a screenshot and please share it with us

because I'm interested to see what type of birds are around in and around Nairobi. That would be that would be amazing.

I like that idea, David. I really like that idea if you don't mind.

Awesome. Got some homework.

Yeah, homework, right?

Yes. This is going to be your new life light, Fu.

It will, right? I'm going to become a bird watcher.

That's right.

With all my with all my travel, I feel like I should I feel like this is a missed opportunity for me. Like honestly,

it is kind of cool the app because like if you are a traveler going around like you can

map when you saw different types of birds and like collect them. It's kind of like Pokemon, right? Like you sort of just like catalog them, which is nice. But yeah, you know, because then you can be like, "Oh, remember I was on this trip and I saw this bird."

So, and uh Shekerah, I know you're you're in south New Jersey, right? So, we're on the opposite ends of the spectrum here, but um yeah, send me send me those birds, too, because I wonder if they're similar or different.

Yeah.

Yes.

That' be great.

That's really cool. I like that timeline feature.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Really cool.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much, Dave. This has been absolutely wonderful.

Thank you for sharing your story with us. We're so happy we got to speak with you. We connected what's over a year ago now. For the first time, you connected with us. he finally got to speak with you.

Thank you. Well, again, I want to reiterate um it's an honor to to come on this podcast and um you know, uh you know, I'm going to at least my family members will will start be will start listening now. Hopefully they listen to this if one person does and maybe they'll share it with other people. But um just to you know promote the WLS pod even more, it's this podcast has been foundational for me.

Um you know, really when I go back to that original question like why did you consider an R2 university? Um yeah, I think back to this this podcast. Um so that's just one example, but thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Wonderful. Well, we are absolutely going to follow your career and

we look forward to following up with you in the future. We're sure you're going to do some wonderful things at Satan Hall. You're incredibly inspirational. So

we really look forward to hearing about the next phase in your journey. Thank you so much.

And so once again listeners, the best way to reach Dave is by LinkedIn and his Satan Hall website where you can also find his email to email him. And we will be sure to include those links in the show notes so that you guys can find them. Yep. And on that note, we'd like to thank our listeners for supporting the pod. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. Reviews help us to increase visibility for the show. And just like also Dave mentioned, please share broadly, widely. We always love um having new listeners as part of our audience. And as always, you can just by email lovescienceodcast@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time, bye everyone.

Byebye.

You know that poor husband who was looking at me being like, "This is who we have?”

 Heat. Hey, heat. Hey, heat.