Ep 86: Take a Deep Breath with Aerobiology - The Work

Today we are joined by Janet Price, Chief Science Officer (CSO) at Visium (formerly Lit Thinking) a company dedicated to creating room and building health solutions to promote air quality. During her time at Visium, Janet was fortunate to learn numerous new skills as her responsibilities grew with the company. She started in engineering supporting the development of the initial prototype product, and then transitioned to product validation, and now she relies on science communications to explain the mature product and how it works. Currently, clean air standards are based on how successfully harmful compounds are removed from the air, or how often air is exchanged within closed spaces. It's only recently that this focus has shifted more to considering how to remove pathogens from the air, as seen during the pandemic. With her leadership at Visium, Janet is passionate about setting this new standard for air quality and promoting new technologies to provide clean air for all that is also pathogen-free. “Let us protect those who are most vulnerable in our populations. Let’s make sure they have safe air, just like we’ve committed to having safe drinking water,” explains Janet. But, Visium alone can’t achieve this goal, it also requires input from many different players including the government. One piece of advice Janet would give to anyone looking to become a CSO is to get really good at communicating the science and staying connected with the current research. A CSO essentially works at the intersection of business and science and this means being able to speak the language of both fields.    

Check out the latest episode on the website: https://welovesciencepodcast.com 

Tune into this episode to hear Janet share:

• Why clean air is a public good
• How are air quality and standards are currently measured
• What are the gaps in air quality policy 
• How you measure air changes in a building and why this is important 

Reach out to Janet:

• LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/molecularjanet/ 
• And check out Visium: https://visium.one/ 

If you enjoyed this episode, also listen to:

Ep 23: The Accidental Discovery of Penicillin

Ep 48: Advocating for Science and Research - The Work

Chapters

• 1:53 Food Science - Fall faves
• 5:39 Guest Introduction
• 6:25 What is the mission and vision of Visium?
• 9:20 Tell us about your role as Chief Science Officer
• 12:23 Tell us more about air quality standards
• 16:23 What are we still getting wrong about air quality?
• 19:29 What do you love most about what you do?
• 20:39 What impact does your work have?
• 27:14 What advice would you give to someone who wants to be a CSO?
• 29:36 Hosts on the hot seat game
• 34:49 How to reach Janet

Transcript

What can you do with your love of science? We'll tell you. Hello, and thank you for tuning in to Another episode of your favorite podcast, We Love Science. We are your hosts. I am Fatu

and I'm Shekerah. And today we're talking about clean air, health standards, and public health.

Yes, we are. And it's going to be so cool. You know, I think we haven't had um any guests on Shekerah if I'm correct, right? Where we've talked we've talked about public health, but I think air quality, air standards, you know, that isn't something we've covered before. So, this should be a lot of fun for us. Very cool.

So, our special guest today is Dr. Janet Price, who is the chief science officer at Visium, which was formerly Lit Thinking. She merges research insight with design to create streamlined room and building health solutions. So, Janet, we are so incredibly happy to have you join us today. Welcome. Welcome.

Thank you so much for talking me. I'm excited to geek out a little bit about the science of aerobiology.

Excellent. Excellent. Um, and we are also really looking forward to hearing all about your work and your journey as well. But first, let's warm up with some food talk, which is always one of our favorite subjects. How does that sound?

That sounds delicious.

Awesome. And we might end up a little bit hungrier by the end of the episode, but that's all right.

Yeah, good hungry.

So, for today's question, because we're getting into the change of seasons, what food do you find synonymous with Fall weather. Shekerah, do you want to get us started?

Yeah, absolutely. I'm always ready for fall, girl. You know it. So, I am actually eating the food I find synonymous with fall, which is pomegranate. I love pomegranate. And once they start coming out in the fall, it's perfect. They're always best in the fall. They're perfectly sweet. There aren't any like rotted, you know, seeds. I love pomegranates. Once fall starts, I'm like, "Pomegranate me." Yep. So, I got some really cool ones and I'm happy.

Very nice. And how do you like to eat them? Do you just eat them like plain? Do you cook with them? Do you like juice them?

I don't do anything fancy with them. I literally just

I spend time taking all the seeds out. It's kind of like therapeutic for me. Like it takes a long time to get the seeds out if you do it like the normal way.

And so it's kind of like therapeutic. I just spend the time get all the seeds out. I put it in a bowl. I grab a spoon. That's my sack.

And you're good to go.

That's my sack. And I'm happy. Yeah. Excellent.

And Janet, what about you?

Fall is also one of my favorite times of the year, but mostly because I love Halloween, so I'm already gearing up for that. And one of the things since I'm born and raised essentially in Michigan, um, we kind of have kind of rainy falls.

Okay.

So, I love to go into those comfort foods that kind of make you warm from the inside. So, my go-to is chili. We have a warm bowl of chili, usually entirely covered in cheese, and you can just settle in. to a nice rainy day with a book. So, that's probably my go-to for fall.

I love it. And doing it the proper way, covered in cheese. I really like that.

Now, something I also have to ask is, do you like your chili a little bit spicy? And do you also add chocolate to your chili? Because I know that can be controversial.

Oo, so I don't add chocolate to chili, but I have stuck some cinnamon in there for a little secret spice.

Nice.

But but I am I am weak to spices. I am the whitest white you've ever met. And sometime cracked pepper is a little too much. So I make the chili and then my husband dumps an entire bottle of hot sauce in his serving. So we we kind of compromise on that one. I like that. I like that.

What about you, Fat? I know you don't get fall over there, but no.

You know, what are you missing from being in the US fall season?

Yeah, I really miss I mean, I think fall was definitely one of my favorite seasons. I miss like the um change of the, you know, like the leaves on the trees, like that's always so beautiful.

Um

yeah, I'm trying to think. I think fall always makes me think of like soups, right? Like cuz cuz exactly like what you were saying, Janet, it's starting to get a little bit colder. So, I think like a good like chowder, like um like a broccoli cheddar, you know, soup is also really good. Seafood chowder. I think all of those like warm soupy things and with like a perfect like buttered roll that any any form of that is is good fall is fall weather food for me.

Cool. Love it.

Yeah. So, that was that was a good I feel like we got a little bit of like healthy stuff, you know, and also some hearty foods in there. So, I think that was a good balance for a food talk.

You saved us, Shekerah.

A that's right. Otherwise, it would have been all of the heavy stuff that we're going to sit with all Yes.

All right. I'll hold us down. I'll hold us down.

Awesome. So, let's jump in.

So, our guest today is Dr. Janet Price, who is an accomplished scientist directing R&D in the tech startup space with 11 years of research experience, two of which were spent overseeing cuttingedge UV research. I'm really looking forward to hearing about that also, Janet, when we talk about your journey. In her current role as a cso, she creates streamlined room and building health solutions to promote air quality. Jenna aims to establish a respected reputation for safety, efficiency, and excellence of all products to secure Visium's thought leadership position in air quality standards. So that sounds amazing. You're helping us to breathe better. You know, there's nothing better than that. I feel clean air is such a must. So let's start at the beginning. Tell us a little bit more about Visium in general. What is um mission and its vision.

Yeah, I think you touched on it pretty well. It's we're in the business of building safer spaces, right? So, anybody who's gone to school or have been at church during flu season knows that if one person in a space is sick, they generally pass it to many other people. So, it's just really easy for us to share the things that we should really be keeping to ourselves. Um, and and this is kind of the whole story of aerobiology, right? We know that things hang out in the the air they can depending on conditions stay there a long time and travel over vast distances. So this indoor air is really a shared resource and we don't generally think about it that way.

Um so what we do at Visium is create devices in order to make this shared air a little bit safer. So we use far UVC light which is a really short wavelength of UVC which will shine directly into rooms in order to inactivate pathogens as they circulate around. And the idea here is if you can reduce the amount of pathogens in the air is you can reduce risks to the people in these spaces. So maybe we can gather a little bit safely during the holiday seasons and not worry about spreading around what's going around.

Yeah, I really love that concept also of air as a public resource, right? And it's so true and I feel like we never take a minute to think about it in that way. I think that's really really nicely put and it also just makes so much sense. Um when we think about it, especially like what you're saying when we're gathering in crowded spaces, flu and all these other things are going around, um it helps us to have air that's a little bit less p, you know, a little fewer pathogens in there to keep us healthy and safe during the holiday season and just really any time of year. So, I think that's really really well described.

Yeah, I love this topic as well, Janet. I think um it's a great way to help people feel more secure, right, in the places that we love to be in together with our loved ones and it's so timely as well right on the heels of this global pandemic right which affected everyone and we all got to see we were wearing all these masks and you know so like um cognizant of how important air quality is and so I think it's an incredibly timely topic and you know timely instruments that you're building for our safety.

Yeah, thank you. And I love the idea that we can have a solution that as much as masks and vaccinations are very helpful tools.

They rely on the individual and you never really know

the state of each room. So, by having something that's on all the time passively that you don't even have to think about, that's a that's a great defense that we can start building into our spaces.

Yeah.

Yep.

I really like that. So, tell us a little bit more about your position as a chief science officer. What exactly is this role and what do you do in your day-to-day?

Sure. So, I've been fortunate and I've been here at Visium for the last three years or so. So, I actually got to see us build the device from the ground up. So, I sat in on engineering meetings making sure we were designing something that didn't detract from the functionality of the light wavelength itself. Right? So, we're building a tool,

thinking about the spaces that they're already going to go into. And then the next step was validation. Right? So, one of the things that is a a problem for a new technology going into a new face is there's not always guard rails really to show people that things are effective. So we're very fortunate that UL so the people who do all of the technological testing so if you pick up any electronic in your house pretty much all of them will have a UL or a CE type stamp on the bottom saying that they've been tested. So we able were able to be certified through UL and we've also done independent third-party testing to show efficacy which is really important for new technology. Don't just trust me that it works. Let me show you the data. Let me show you it inactivating pathogens in the space exactly like we hope it will. And then now that we have the device in hand, we have all of our certifications. My job transitions a little bit more into science communicator. We have a new technology which people might not have heard of before or understand exactly how it works. So a lot of my time is spent communicating and understanding um exactly what the problem is in each different location we're installing these devices. Making sure they understand the technology kind of at their core so they can feel empowered to explain it to others, right? Because the best way to bring on something new is to just show somebody else how cool this new thing that's in your office is, right?

Yeah.

That's how I feel like everybody got their Apple Watch the first time, right? They were just showing up.

Very nice. Very nice. And I really like how your role has kind of transitioned as I feel like you're describing the technology, you know, going from like a prototype to like testing it to showing that it works to getting it validated to now, you know, you're out there marketing this amazing product. I think that's pretty cool and not something that you probably see in every kind of role that you would find in um like a biotech organization like where you're working.

It's true. It's it's kind of characteristic of startup life. You wear the hats that you need at the time and and your company is growing. growing and changing. So your role grows and change. So

maybe I wouldn't have predicted back at the beginning of this company that I'd be doing things like podcast where we're talking about the technology itself or or building research collaborations to kind of push the edge of what we know about this technology a little bit further. But that's now something we can do just because of the maturity of the company.

Yeah. Wonderful. So tell us a little bit more Janet about air quality standards um and why their quality um sort of isn't held to the same safety standards as like food or water or these other things you know that we consume and you know come in contact with in our day-to-day.

Yeah, that's a tough question just because we know air is a shared resource but we don't control it in exactly the same way we do water or food, right? I can tell you exactly where all of the steps of food production come from,

but your air wafts in from outside and you don't know if it's coming from the exhaust from the building next you you don't know if it's coming from the farm down the street. So, it's a lot harder um to kind of pin down the source of issues in our air

and really now the regulations around air a lot of them come from recommendations from industry. So, Ashray is an organization that is for heating cooling HVAC specialists

and they have made recommendations for decades around having at least minimum requirements for air. So, the idea that you have improved ventilation to make sure you're taking out the CO2 that builds up in spaces or that cleaner that you used on your desk just now to make sure you're taking those vapors

outside and replacing them with fresh air. So, that's really what air quality right now focuses on. There are a million sensors you can get into your house now to look for

CO2 and particle count. And that's

how we think about air quality, right? Is what negative things are in our air that impact our day-to-day life. But that's kind of on a continuum. Anybody who thinks about pollen counts know that they rise and they fall. And so we have to figure out a way to adapt our air to what's actually in it. And right now there's no one really considering

viral particles, bacterial particles, things that could make you sick as part of that standard. And

we realized it more especially after the pandemic, right? There wasn't any guidance to say how can we make this building safe. Besides, increase the air flow in these rooms so that you're bringing in that fresh air or reduce the capacity of people in these spaces because if you have less people, there's less particles shed, right? So, that's a good place to start, uh, the CDC now recommends five air changes per hour in all rooms. And and to give you kind of a an idea of what that feels like, so most houses are are between uh half an air change an hour to two. Um, most offices that are about 2 to three uh and hospitals are anywhere between 12 and 20, right? Because there's medical reason where you want to clean out the air. So places where they were already thinking about pathogens, um they had better protections in place. But for us

in our day-to-day, it's just not considered, right? You just expect to get sick when you go to the office. But

one of the new standards out of of Ashray is actually beginning to add particles of pathogens into the standard. So maybe in the coming years as this uh standard gets adopted, we'll see people building ventilation to fit um particle reduction so we can get illness reduction in these spaces as well.

Yeah,

but it's all new.

Yeah. No, it is. It is. But so fascinating also, I think. Um and I love also the idea of the science behind this and how all of that is coming together. Um and how this is evolving also as a field in itself, you know, for our better public health. I think that's pretty cool. I think that's pretty cool.

Yeah, there are some stunning science being done, especially o in places like uh Purdue and the University of Colorado looking specifically at how air flows through a space and how different interventions impact the amount of pathogens that actually stay in that air. So, it's a really cool growing field.

Nice.

So, Janet, you started to touch on this. Um what are we still getting wrong about air quality, especially things like airborne transmission and what needs to change and I think you spoke um really nicely about how even just the way that we kind of like define or qualitatively look at our air needs to change right so you know previously people weren't even thinking about pathogens and things like that but now especially after the pandemic we're seeing that act you know this is something that we need to pay attention to um as far as it comes to air quality are there other things as well that you've seen um from the work that you're doing that we should start paying attention to what are other things you know that we need to change and maybe you can also just speak a little bit more to how is it especially since you brought up you know the science communications part of your role how is it that you're able to like convince and persuade people you know that we need to think we need to change how it is that we're thinking about our air quality

ah the convincing is always the tough part nobody really enjoys going through a big change to how they're doing things but it can be taken as as part of a balance, right? So, we don't just have fresh air, right? We don't just open all of our windows because that would solve all of our issues with part particulates and and gas because if we have constant flow of fresh air, everything should be fine. But we don't do that because the cost of conditioning our air to be a comfortable temperature and a comfortable humidity is so high that that's not efficient. So, we can already see that we're making these kind of balance decisions dayto day of figuring out how much fresh air is needed and how much do we need to treat our indoor air. So I think people are ready to start understanding kind of that complexity but right now we're just not considering pathogens because there's no immediate detriment that we're taking account of. Right? So a lot of people are aware of CO2 levels because there have been studies that looked on how it impacted people's productivity at work. Same goes for temperature. If people are too cold, they spend their time complaining and they don't work as quickly. So, this is where people are feeling their bottom line right now for pathogens. If someone gets sick in the office, they're like, "Ah, that happens. Absenteeism happens. People, you know, we expect 15% loss because people are homesick." But what if that wasn't the norm? What if we treated our air in our spaces for pathogens and now we could have reduced amount of sick days and now you could see as some savings in a budget. It's just a harder thing to get across the line because that's already built in as loss.

That's a really great explanation. Awesome. This is so complex like getting into it. It really is. I think more complex than than we assumed it was going to be just hearing about Visium and you know what it is um that you um you know are leading there. So um let's get to, you know, some of the more, I guess, I don't know if we want to call them the easier questions, but maybe a little bit like lighter questions. What is it that you love most about what you do?

You know, I really love the communication aspect of it. This is one of the things that I really harped on when I was doing my PhD research is as much as you have a really cool idea or you learn something fascinating, it's going to go nowhere if you're not able to articulate it to other scientists, other people. in the community. I think that everyone's interested in a good story. So, if you can tell your science as a story, it'll stick in people's minds and it'll be that fun factoid that they can take to the dinner table or tell their good friends. And and that's how good science communication spreads is if you make it approachable and it's something that you can, you know, share with everybody else. And that's really my favorite part. Um because once people feel empowered that they understand how something works, That's higher adoption. That's more comfort with our very changing world in new technologies like this.

Agreed. Agreed. All right. What impact uh Janet does your work have in helping us to build better and healthier environments to make clean air a health standard and not just a technology.

So one of the great and terrible things about air is it is an equalizer, right? So if we take care of it, That means the people in those space are are protected. But we are only as safe as the least protected space because we all use the same public transit. We go to the same grocery store, right? So if we're thinking about trying to protect an entire city, you have to protect the air in all of these different spaces. So that's something that I think about a lot is the idea that if we're protecting the public, we have to do it everywhere. And that's one reason why it's difficult um because not everybody has the fun for this kind of technology. And so it really needs to be a push from from the ground level, from our public health experts, from our community leaders to say like, let us protect those who are most vulnerable in our populations. Let's make sure that they have safe air just like we've committed to have safe drinking water. It's something that needs to come together uh on different levels of government and that's that's a high lift, but I think having good communication is that first step to make that we can all benefit.

No, that's a great explanation. And I especially like, you know, and I think this is true with so many things, how we're only as strong as our weakest link, right? And that clearly is also the the main thing here. Yeah. Really, really well said.

Yeah. I'm really curious about the policy aspect that you just brought up. Are there any current policies regarding air quality? I mean, I know I do get these like things on my phone, you know, that air quality quality is, you know, bad or good today or have you, including the pollen thing, right? So, I'm just wondering, are there any actual policies um regulating air quality? Probably not.

Yeah. So, there's a there's a minimum acceptable indoor air quality standard. Ashray, I think it's 62.1 that's been implemented in most places in the United States, but this is minimum quality. This is

not necessarily the line between good and okay. It might be the line between okay and maybe a little dangerous, right? So,

we need to start asking for a little bit more, but no one knows who to ask. So, if we start saying, okay, we need to require, you know, following the CDC's guidance of of five air changes per hour because I mean, I'm sure you never thought about how much air is changed through your house,

but especially in these spaces where people are gathering, there should be higher ventilation. to protect the fact that all of us are coming together in this shared resource. So, you're right, there's not one that kind of makes a blanket statement, but buildings generally do follow some guidance, but it's based on CO2 and particles, but if we're thinking about pathogens, there needs to be something new.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you.

Yeah. No, that's so so interesting. And um I guess now I will also take an aside Shekerah since You took one earlier.

Fair. Fair.

So,

um this this makes me think of So, I'm currently based um in Nairobi and here because the climate is literally so mild, there literally is like no heating or air conditioning everywhere. You you either open your windows or you close your windows. Like, you know, like that's how you regulate temperature. But but unless you're in like a really big like modern building, even if you go to things like some of the smaller malls and shopping centers, I think there also is just this like I I guess you could call it like culture or just like acceptance of like you're supposed to have fresh air so windows need to be open and you know like things like that. And it's just it's so it's so interesting to think about because my office building we I we do have functionality for AC but we never use it. It's it's either you open the windows or you close the windows. And people always get like really I feel like antsy like if the windows are like closed all the time. It's always just like no, we need fresh air. So that just really makes me think of, you know,

exactly like what you're saying. You can convince people and then their behaviors change, right? And then you can see them implementing all these things and then it just becomes second nature. It's like, yeah, of course, we need to make sure that we have really good air that is more than just CO2. That also is looking at pathogens and all these other things that um, you know, relate to our health and you know, how it is that we're gathering and making sure that in spaces that are more crowded that we also just have better air quality. And I think Yeah. So that that was my aside.

Love it. And you're right, places just used to open the windows. Even hospitals used to have windows that open. Can you imagine that these days?

Yeah.

Yeah. Wild, right?

I have just one clarification, Janet, and maybe you explained it before and I I totally missed it. But when you say air changes, are you referring to kind of like Fatu just sort of open the windows or is there like an actual uh in is instrument mentation regulating air change. Is that what you're referring to?

Oh, that's a great question. So, an air change is essentially the amount of times it takes to replace the volume of your room with fresh air. Either ones that have been recirculated through your HVAC or a combination with outdoor air. The idea that all the air that was in this room is now somewhere else.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha.

Because if if you're in a room, you're slowly building up gas particles, whatever have you. And the idea is to make sure that you're regularly changing that, even if you're doing that with an HVAC system. So

that's what I mean by air changes. It's, you know, five times your room has been changed out in an hour with fresh air.

Got it. Got it. And that's just monitored um with like devices to monitor certain things like particles and what have you, CO2 as you said?

Yeah. So a lot of our modern air conditioning systems take into account like humidity and the volume of air they put into a space and because they know the floor plan of your house or your office building, they can actually tell you how many times over that volume they have pumped air into the space and that's how they do the calculations.

Got it. Cool. Thank you.

Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. So, what advice would you give to someone who's also interested in taking scientific expertise and sort of combining that with organizational leadership? So, similar to what you're doing, what advice would you give to someone who also is looking at you and is like, I want to be a cso one day.

Well, it's a great goal and there are a couple of different ways you can approach it. You can of course go the way that I went. So, if you start at a company kind of at the ground level, you're going to be doing a lot of different things, but you're going to be in a position that maybe in a bigger company would take time going up a ladder uh to accomplish. But really, the important things to have for this type of role is making sure that you're able to effectively communicate the science because that's going to be a lot of job. Uh you might not think about it coming directly from whatever degree you're in, but as much as being an a knowledge expert in your field is important for credibility, the fact if you can't convince anybody that you know the things because you have bad communication, you're not going to get anywhere. Uh but eventually that um expertise is something that you're going to lean on based on your background and your knowledge of different areas of science there. going to rely on you to be a a thought leader to give them direction um when they're figuring out exactly how everything works or whether to go into a new field and your position in understanding both the science and where you fit in kind of the ecosystem. I still talk to a lot of uh professors who are doing research because I want to be up on the newest thing and that's something you're going to have to keep doing um because you you don't want to be behind on on this kind of science but other Otherwise, it's just learning that there is an intersection of business and science. So, it's going to have a whole new jargon. Make sure you learn a little bit about those words so that you can speak business to those who need the business, but also science to those who need the science. It's kind of an interesting balancing of your different skills that you've learned.

I really like that. I really like that. Perfect. So, thank you so much for all of that, Janet. I think this was a really, really interesting segment for both of us and I'm sure so many people who are listening who never really thought about you know air quality and what that means. So as we're finishing up uh the work segment we have a little game that we like to call host on the hot seat and so a little little bit of a sizzle in there. A little bit of a sizzle. Um and so Janet uh this is where you are going to quiz us. I think you have one uh question prepared. Um and that is going to be specific about your field or your work, whatever you would like. And so Shekerah and I, we always get super super competitive when it comes to this, but it's also a lot of fun. So Shekerah, are you ready? Ready to lose?

Oh no, she didn't.

Oh no. See, Fatio gets competitive, right? I'm a good sport. I'm a good sport. All right, I'm ready. I'm ready, Fatu.

All right, Janet. So over to you. Go ahead. Yeah. So, we've talked a little bit about aerobiology and how it affects life in spaces and how people can reduce risk uh by adding different technologies, but I want to ask you guy guys about the history of aerobiology. So, can you tell me and there's a lot of time in this question so I I'll we'll give the right answer. When we figured out that pathogens can move from person to person in a laboratory setting. All right. So, this means infecting one living thing to another living thing. And you can give me what decade you think it is because there's been a lot of time before now.

Oh god. Is this multiple choice?

Nope. You just have to give me a decade you think it existed in. Because I mean, we know there's been a good history of medicine. Think back to your basic science days. When do you think this all started coming together?

Oh gosh. This is like a deep dive and history was always my worst subject.

I know. I can't even.

Let's see.

I'm going to say 18th century.

I I feel like I feel like I always tell myself like looking at where I'm standing now, I'm like people didn't know anything back then. So, I feel like it wasn't that that far. I want to say like The 1930s.

Okay. Fatu is closest. So the 1950s was really the first time we showed an infection going from one person to the next person through the air.

50s.

Yes.

What?

So I I get you. So in the 1800s, you're right. We started finding out that if I took pathogens, if I took bacteria and injected into a person, they got sick. That's, you know, folks postulates.

Mhm.

But it wasn't until the 1950s that they did a really interesting study looking about the air in a hospital wing that was treating tuberculosis where they took the air from that particular tuberculosis ward, put it through an HVAC system to infect uh guinea pigs who apparently are very good at catching tuberculosis in an entirely different room. And then they proved that UVC light was able to inactivate the pathogens as they were traveling through the duct and then none of the guinea pigs got sick. So, this was the first time we went from people to animals to show that transmission can happen through the air in these tiny droplets.

And it just boggles the mind for me because we already knew about all of our eight planets in in the 1800s. We knew about the atmosphere of Mars a little bit already, but we didn't understand that things to travel through the air quite yet.

Yeah. Well, those are tiny things you can't see, right? So, I guess I kind of understand it,

right?

It's tough. And and I think half the logic is people always find a different reason for how it could have happened, right? Oh, they could have had touched their face. They could have contaminated their food. But these guinea pigs had nothing to do with a tuberculosis sword.

Cool. I'm literally speechless.

Fun fact of the day. study tuberculosis with guinea pigs.

Oh my goodness, Janet, thanks so much for chatting with us today that I feel like we learned so many things and also our our eyes have really been opened to things that we've always taken for granted, right? And I think it's always so important that we take time to have that like extra layer of reflection to understand, you know, why all of these things are so important. to us. So, thank you for opening our eyes and our lungs on the importance of air quality.

No, it was a pleasure talking to you both. Thank you so much for the time.

Excellent. So, before we jump into the journey segment, can you please share how people can reach out to you if they would like to?

Oh, certainly. So, I'm on LinkedIn. Uh my tagline is molecular Janet because I'm a giant nerd. Or you can always reach out through the the museum website. I'm an active um communicator. I've actually done a couple of different public speaking events this year and I'd be happy to chat with more people and get them excited about this technology.

Lovely, lovely. Awesome. We'll be sure to include that in our show notes so our listeners can find it. Thank you everyone.

Okay, so we'd like to say thank you to our listeners for supporting the podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, and share. To learn more about our guest journey, be sure or to listen to the next Journey episode. And you can reach out to us by email at lovesciencepodcast@gmail.com. Please send any questions, comments about the show, or suggestions for guests that you'd like to hear on the show. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time.