Ep 89: Bridging Communication, Art, and Health - The Journey

Today, we continue interviewing Beth Amato, a public health research communicator and writer at the University of Witwatersrand and Wits Health consortium in South Africa. In her early days, Beth truly disliked science and preferred poetry and storytelling. It wasn’t until she was much further in her education that she saw the link between captivating stories and science, and was really intrigued. Beth’s childhood memories were deeply touched by her mother who struggled with mental illness and ultimately took her own life. Through this tragedy, Beth began to ask several questions on trauma, psychology, and brain development and how this could also link to generational trauma and violent crime in South Africa. Her unique lens for understanding violence and crime through science led to an award and fellowship at the Dart Center for Journalism and Trauma for Early Childhood Development. Given the tumultuous history of her home country and the current state of high violence in South Africa, Beth wanted to get a more nuanced and granular perspective for such behavior and decision making. This curiosity led Beth to use her hustler instinct to seek out researchers in developmental biology and work with them, planting her start in science communication. Looking back, Beth wishes she could tell her younger self, “I don’t think I’m the best storyteller or best writer in the world, but I do it anyway. . . . You must just do it anyway . . . Tell the story. Make the mistake.” From her journey, Beth’s unique vision of success is rooted in showing the beauty of humanity through her work—of complexity and nuance connecting science to health. When she is not writing, Beth enjoys practicing yoga, sewing dolls, crafting origami, and experiencing childhood again through her 2 children. 

In case you missed it, learn about Beth’s work as a public health communicator—https://www.buzzsprout.com/1720419/episodes/18258926

Check out more about Beth’s journey in the latest episode—https://welovesciencepodcast.com. 

Tune into this episode to learn more about Beth’s journey and:

• What personal tragedy helped guide her path to storytelling 
• How she was influenced by mentors who recognized her early talent 
• What she would do differently looking back 

Reach out to Beth: 

• Email: Beth.amato3@wits.ac.za
• IG: @sweetlittlefrida 

If you enjoyed this episode, also listen to:

• Ep 21: Who Should Art Represent? - The Journey
• Ep 40: The Art of Science with Laura Canil - The Journey 

Chapters

• 1:04 Did you have a science spark?
• 2:57 How did your career plans evolve over time during school years?
• 12:57 Did you have any influential mentors?
• 16:17 What advice would you give your younger self?
• 19:06 Looking back is there anything you would do differently or change?
• 21:59 When you visualize your successful self what does that picture look like?
• 26:37 Life Lights

Transcript

This is the journey. This is the journey.

Welcome back to We Love Science podcast. This is the journey episode. Here, our guest star shares more about their discovery of science and how mentors and experiences shaped who they are today. To hear more about the work associated with this journey, please check out the previous episode. Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. We love science. Our guest today is Beth Amato, a public health research communicator based in South Africa. We learned all about her amazing work in the last episode and the impact she's had communicating science to broad audiences. So, if you missed it, just hit the link in the show notes. So, Beth, we're going to jump into the journey segment of our conversation, learning a little bit more about how you became this awesome science communicator and also about your uction to science and how your journey progressed from childhood to now. So, let's start with your earliest memories in science. Did you have a science spark or any like wow moments when you were growing up?

So, I think that I have always questioned things, how things work,

but notably how people worked. And I know that, you know, It's not it's never necessarily been objects or things, but I've always been interested in dynamics and um I can say, however, that I I can't I don't it's it's so strange that I'm into science and health communication when I can tell you that I disliked science at school. I didn't care about going into a science laboratory. I um didn't take uh science for a trick, which is to our 12th grade.

Um there was really nothing it didn't interest me and I so I think it's just you know I I think part of my there there's other parts of my journey that led me to do this but from a child I don't I it's actually bizarre but I can't actually say there was a spark. There was more an interest in um poetry and um literature but then I started seeing science and maths and biology is also being poetic and symmetrical. So that's how I sort of got into but but it was there was a different story a different story about how I really got into this. Yeah.

So from a poet or you know an artist to a scientist. I love the transition.

Okay. So how about you tell us a little bit more then about your career journey. What did you actually want to be in middle school through those formative years where you were exploring your poetic side and how did your career plans actually progress?

Wow. So, um, interestingly, I've I've known from a young age that I wanted to be a storyteller.

And interestingly, it didn't necessarily mean writing. It didn't necessarily mean um a specific medium. I just knew that I wanted to be a storyteller. And I remember when I was watching the Discovery Channel um in my teen years because I think that's only when those sort of things came out. Um I remember watching somebody speaking about um going to Antarctica and really showing the beauty of this place but also how it was changing owing to human uh owing to kind of you know what humans were doing. into the environment and describing this and it just really I thought it was beautiful and I thought I would like to tell stories like this um however way whatever way it comes whether I'm going to do a film about it whether I'm going to write something about it um that's what really intrigued me um there was also a really interesting book that I picked up when I was in my teens. Um about uh in South Africa about a forensic uh a forensic scientist who explained how he would go to crime scenes and gather material and what that meant and the the advances in DNA um in our country and worldwide. And I just sort of thought this man wrote a really interesting book kind of captured me, you know, as a kind of teen that had a really shorter attention span. Um, and so I've been very interested in,

I would say, the mechanics of storytelling. Um, what makes a good story, how to do it, say something that I care about, and it's always been really linked to, um, science and health actually. Um, those are the stories that have that have interested me um, most. Um, But I I'll tell you a personal story as to why I how I actually came into this which is really really very interesting.

So my mother had severe mental uh illness when I was growing up.

Goodness.

Um and we didn't know what was happening. I think there was a lot of stigma in the 80s and the 90s about somebody having a mental illness. But nevertheless, um my mother's very unregulated nervous system um and just other stresses made it very difficult for her to be alive in this world. And so she uh died by suicide when I was young.

And so so so what happened is that I started then becoming very interested in her story and the the biology and the environment, the interaction ction of those two which might have led to what had happened in her life uh and the ultimate way in which she had died. And so I looked at the attachment the neuro neurobiology of attachment and relational trauma and I started seeing scientifically how it had started to change the brain

and how it changes so very much. And so that really got me interested in um ways in which people acted um based on their extremely early trauma that they had experienced and how that fundamentally changes so much including the kind of very cellular structures of of one's body. Um if we were to bring in epigenetics which is another topic um so I decided that I wanted to basically take this story but use it in a on a broader societal level. And I wanted to understand why criminals why young people became criminals later in life, what led them to become violent criminals,

right? Interesting.

And so it kind of went from thinking about my mom and her own family, but also thinking about it more from a from a kind of societal and generational setting. You know, I grew up in part South Africa, we have lots of of generational trauma.

And I kind of pinn it and think to myself, how can we have this conversation at a broader level? So I wrote a story about a young man who had been arrested multiple times. He was um a violent criminal. And what made him this way or why was his what was the burning story really behind this? And It was fascinating. He had um you know suffered numerous forms of trauma um and structural and systemic trauma too um you know poverty and inequality uh and racial trauma, intergenerational racial trauma um had really sort of impacted on who he was and uh the choices that he was making. And I wrote a story and it was it won an award board which surprised me.

I was really um it it was just something that I it was such a it was such a beautiful story to write and it answered so many of my own burning questions about my own trauma even from a different angle. We were completely different human beings. I come from a background um I didn't experience uh systemic uh and institutional as much in systemic and institutional trauma. Um but I just became interested in how our stories connected and how this early this attachment trauma from very young had shaped our own um paths.

I then um was chosen to be a fellow for um the dart center for journalism and trauma for early childhood development and looking to see how um the child's brain uh develops uh in adversity. And I then was I really sort of went on a I wanted to try and explain crime and violence in this country in South Africa

from a more complex and nuanced and granular perspective because often um you know the perpetrator whilst that perpetrator has done incredibly hurtful painful things. I thought if we could expand the conversation How can we think about crime and violence differently and actually link it to science

uh and how can we link this really really ter we've got very we've got a high level of violent crime in this country I think it's one of the most violent in the world and um how can we sort of look at this problem from a different angle and um so that's where it started actually strangely and um then I this is where my hus um my hustler personality comes in. I decided to approach a professor who looked at developmental pathways of health and disease. And I asked her if I could come and do some communications and work around the work that they were doing in Suetto, which is um a a an aparted era township just outside shaped uh shaped in a partate um and it's just outside Johannesburg and kind of looking at the health dynamics there. And what we discovered is that adverse childhood experiences um not only create mental distress, but they impact uh one's physiological makeup as well.

Um inflammation markers, your immunity, your um quality of life. Um so it just became I started really bridging all of this. Um and that's my story then. And then kind of evolved olved into seeing a broader, you know, a broader view of how I can tell the stories of the research going on.

Yes.

Wow, that was an incredibly powerful story. Beth, thank you so much for sharing, especially um the very personal story you told about your mom. But we've had uh people on this show also previously sharing how difficult life experiences resulted kind of in a positive outcome ultimately and resulted it sort of spurred them gave them the bravery and the focus to take their life in this sort of positive direction like you have. So you've taken this negative thing that's happened to you and figured out how can I help other people

who are you know struggling through trauma and what science got to say about their experiences right so I love that thank you

yes that's it that is exactly it

and so did you have any influential mentors Beth during this very interesting career journey that you've had and who've helped you sort of with your storytelling and how to bring that to the world.

Yes. I mean so so interestingly I mean despite my mother's shortcomings and her you know um her distress and um her tragic life and death. I would say that she was a mentor for me just through her story um just by the very sort of the her very story was something that has basically changed the course of my life.

Um

right

was also very artistic and she also was a great writer and um I think that I've taken a lot of that on. I think I've almost um carried the torch for her to kind of I suppose close this loop.

The other person that really helped me was when I was very young and I uh was writing stories for the newspapers um so around health and she this this really interesting she she's also a published writer Rahana Russo and she told me she said to me Beth you are a good writer

and it just it really helped me um yeah it just there was something about um somebody just affirming that for me. Uh and I just thought, okay, you and and it was affirmed, you know, by other people, but it was just that kind of that initial affirmation when I was really young to say, you know, this is a talent and don't, you know, you need to you need to uh you need to realize this talent. You need to you need to do something with it. And so that has stuck with me forever and ever. Um so when I'm feeling like really low. I just always think about about about that conversation I had.

Yeah, that's very beautiful. We all need those special people to

Yes.

sometimes point out, you know, these talents that we have that we can, you know, contribute to the world cuz sometimes it's hard to see it in yourself. So,

it's beautiful that you had that.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah. And I also really like Beth how um you know, even though there is tragedy associated with your mother. There was also a lot of light I think there right um in terms of what you remember about her and and what she taught you and you know how you kind of I think have used some of those I guess like special traits and connections to kind of connect with um what it is that you enjoy doing so much now in your current work.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Um it's kind of um that is just the beauty of art and this kind of work that we do, right? This kind of transformation, uh, alchemy.

Yeah. Beauty through struggle, right?

In a lot of ways, those are the most powerful stories.

Yeah,

very much.

Okay. So, so considering your journey, what advice would you give to young Beth?

So, what I would give to young Beth is to I I mean so so on a personal level which actually does really affect the writing process and the ability to operate in the world as a professional as a person. I would have told myself to learn more about nervous system regulation. Interesting. Yes. And to feel embodied um and to really take care of myself um properly and that would be through bodily work it through be somatic therapy

that had wish that I could sort of go back and tell that to my younger self because I think that I would have I've had very dark periods in which I have not wanted to write and I've not wanted to be a storyteller and I sometimes feel that um if I had kind of um paid more attention to that I think I would have those times would have been lighter or I would have been able to navigate them um a lot.

Um and the other thing that I would probably tell myself is just to keep doing it. So, you know, I don't think I'm the best storyteller or the best writer in the world, but I do it anyway.

And I think that that's actually a really important lesson. Um and I used to often stop because I had this sort of fear of failure or it wasn't good enough. And now I just say you just do it anyway. You know, you you can do you must just do it anyway. You might not uh you know, you might not be the best or think you're the best, but just do it.

Yeah.

Um just tell the story. Um make the mistake. So I think that's what I probably should have done more.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Just do it. How many times have you heard just do it, right? So, just tell the story and make the mistake. I love that little line that you just that you just said. And that's okay, right? And you're contributing and we're all going to learn from your story. So, I love that.

Exactly.

Yeah. I would say I really agree with that also because there's no way that you're going to get better or improve, you know, or or anything else if you don't at least start and just try and just do it and continue doing it. So, that is Yep.

That is something we have heard from several of our guest Shekerah, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

And so looking back then, is there anything that you think you would do differently or if you could do it all again, what would you change? Is there anything you would change? Beth, I mean, you know, I love that question. Um, I think I would change mostly how So I viewed myself as not able to tell somebody else's story or that I wasn't able to because I wasn't a scientist or because I wasn't a traumatologist or because I wasn't a psychologist that I couldn't tell stories. And so there are many stories that I have actually not told

because I didn't think that I had uh the credibility and the skills and the expertise. Now, I'm not saying that I'm any of those things cuz I'm not a scientist and I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist. But if I just believed in my craft more and I could tell the stories even if I wasn't those things. So there are many stories that I haven't told because of that uh hang-up.

Um so that's what I would do differently is that it was just tell the stories.

Yeah.

In my way.

Yeah. In your own way. Yeah, I love that. So, believe in yourself more and

don't look at the fact that you don't have a you you're not a scientist as something that makes you um unequipped to tell the story, right? I Yeah, that's really good advice about that.

Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. I like that. And I think that again fits in so perfectly with just, you know, just do it. Don't stop yourself. Just do it. Do the thing. Do the writing. Do the storytelling. I really like that. Because each voice is unique too, right? So you not being you know a scientist and having expertise in whatever topic means that you can see the story differently which would also help other people because this you're not like other people are going to see it in the way that you see it, right? And so in a way you're telling it in a way that will appeal to lots of people who are not who are also not experts in whatever that particular IC is so

absolutely and I didn't see that and I didn't see that and I wish that I did. Um so there have been missed opportunities

self-esteem issues if only I don't even have any there's nothing you know it's all it's all oneself that uh

yeah

I could do you know my own feelings about myself but you know it's also been a learning thing so I'm also okay with it.

Yeah. All right. Um so We're going to finish up the journey segment with the big question. When you visualize your successful self, what does that picture look like? I think when I visualize my successful self, it is a person who is able to consistently see the complexity and the nuance of everything so that I can tell broader stories, continue to tell broader stories.

Um, and that I have a insatiable curiosity for life and to show what humanity can do um, through science and through health. Um, That is that is actually what I when I think of my successful self, it's absolutely using it as a um I I feel like a custodian of scientific stories um to show what humanity can do, the beauty of humanity.

I love that. I don't think I've heard an answer like that before, but that's very very unique. Yeah, I think it's just it's it's always just so interesting to think about um you know I'm very I'm I'm very interested in um the I suppose humanism and um despite all these terrible things that we do we also have all these wonderful things and science discoveries are one of those.

So a successful self is is for me is somebody that can uh absolutely be dedicated to telling those stories for the rest of my life.

Yes, thank you so much. Very poetic in a way as well.

Agreed. Agreed. I think spoken like a true writer and a true storyteller. Beth that was just so beautifully beautifully put together.

I mean I guess some people really get cross with me because when I see certain things and I say that's fascinating and they're like but How can you say it's fascinating? It's so tragic. I said, I know, but I'm seeing it with a fascination as well. Not in a kind of not in a kind of uh, you know, gratuitous way, but um there's something about uh Yeah, something about really I don't know going really deeper into something. Yeah, I get it.

I get it, too.

No, I love in a way I feel like it's sort of saying you don't stop with the trauma, right? Because if you're stuck with the trauma, then you're you're stuck. You're stuck and you're in this traumatic place. But it's sort of seeing a future out of and through the trauma even though this is a bad thing. Okay. Yeah. Where can we go with this? Right. So, I kind of love that that it's always like sort of a future focus like what can we get out of this? What can we learn from this type of mentality?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

I wanted to say it also made me think a little bit about like a tangent. you know how like true crime is is something that's so fascinating to individuals and although yes all those stories are based in tragedy I think what makes them interesting is like you're digging deeper beyond that you're finding out who were these actual people who were the like good guys who were the bad guys how did they solve the crime what were the clues that they found you know what is the science behind that if it's not getting to like forensics so like really just like going beneath the surface. And I think that is what makes that genre so captivating to people. It's not

just based on these horrible stories, right? It's what's underneath that that's drawing us in to understand, right? Um and maybe exactly like what you're saying, Beth, is view these things with some nuances because sometimes it's very clear-cut, but then there there are times where it's not, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So, thank you, Beth. I think you really have made us think of so many things and especially just think of sort of like science communications and public health research communications in a really different way. So thank you for for bringing that to us. So for our final segment which we call life lights you were lost in the thoughts. Should we try it one more time? Let's try it one more time. So this final segment is something that we call life lights better. And so Beth, this is when we describe what brings you joy outside of work. Um and so this can, you know, focus on things like your hobbies, your passion projects, thinking about your family or friends, how you like to relax, basically anything that brings light and enjoyment to your life. So what is that for you, Beth? So, I am a yogi. I love yoga.

I can see it.

Yes, I'm really interested. I mean, here's the science scientist and storyteller in me, but I'm really interested in how the the body and the mind are one. Um, so I love that. I also am a really good um seamstress and sewer. So, I make I make dolls for people So yeah, so I'm really interested in um so if there's a mythical creature um that I'm interested in, I might sort of decide to go and get material and then just sew a doll for somebody or for myself. So my poor children throughout their childhood, they would always want somebody to buy them a doll because they said their mother is the only the mother just makes them a doll.

Oh no. So, I'm a goal maker as well. Um, I haven't done it in a while, but um I Yes, I do that. Um, I'm fascinated um with origami, with sourcing different kinds of paper to make sure um I'm very interested in long form journalism. Um, I am a mother um a single mom to 11year-old and a 9y old year-old and um I really love uh being sort of experiencing childhood for a second time or third time through my children as well.

So that me a lot of joy. Um but I am a maker. I'm very um I love sort of using my hands.

That's lovely, Beth. You definitely have more than enough things to bring you really that light and enjoyment. So lovely. Thank you for sharing that with us.

It's a pleasure.

Yeah. And thank you again also uh for coming on to share your story with us. We look forward to following up with you in the future to hear more about the next phase of your journey. And I sincerely hope that it will involve creativity and writing and expression. All of these things that you have shared with us, Beth, that you really, you know, I feel like just like encompass and enjoy. Absolutely. And thank you Fatu and Shekerah. It was so wonderful to talk to you too and I'm also excited about the next part of the journey and anyone that wants to reach out. Um I love sort of interdisciplinary projects and collaborations so please feel free.

Wonderful. Wonderful. So listeners please don't be shy. Make sure you reach out to Beth. We'll be sure to post her um email and also her um Instagram handle which she shared. Um and we'll be sure to include those links in the show notes.

And on that note, everyone, thank you. Thank you so much for supporting the podcast. And if you enjoy the show, please leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. Reviews help us by increasing visibility for this show. And as always, you can reach us by email, lovesciencepodcast@gmail.com. We would absolutely love to hear from you. Until next time, bye everyone.