Trans Agenda Is OUT OF CONTROL! Debate Gets Heated Fast! CC POD EP 174

In this episode, Dimitri Rodriguez sits down to discuss the realities of being a trans man and the controversies surrounding the so-called “trans agenda.” From facing societal scrutiny to navigating male-dominated spaces, Dimitri shares unfiltered stories about the daily challenges, microaggressions, and public misconceptions trans men experience. He also dives into the debate over male privilege, explaining why transitioning does not automatically grant social advantages and how perceptions of gender shape interactions, opportunities, and treatment in both personal and professional spaces. This episode exposes the complex and often misunderstood realities of gender identity today.

The conversation heats up as Dimitri explores the ethical and legal aspects of disclosure in dating and intimate situations. He argues that transparency about being trans is essential for consent while highlighting the consequences of misrepresentation. The episode also tackles media portrayal, societal stigma, and mental health struggles, including high rates of anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideation in the trans community. Dimitri challenges the mainstream narrative and offers listeners a bold perspective on how societal preconceptions, rather than being transgender itself, contribute to these mental health crises.

Controversial topics like bathroom access, sports participation, and public perception are debated intensely, highlighting how society judges gender based on appearance rather than identity. Dimitri discusses legal inconsistencies, the pressures of conforming to gender norms, and the reality of transitioning in the UK, including medical and social hurdles. This episode delivers a raw, thought-provoking, and often heated conversation that challenges conventional thinking about the “trans agenda,” privilege, and societal expectations, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the current debates surrounding gender identity.

Transcript

Setting The Ground Rules

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Council Culture Podcast. And listen, this is going to be our first debate. We're going to have a debate. Yeah. Opposing thoughts and um opinions, I'm going to assume. But for those who don't know, introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

So my name's Dimitri Rodriguez. I'm more commonly known as being a transgender man on the internet that has a few controversial opinions. Um I've done TV, sort of been in Lab Bible, done a few podcasts here and there, and just realistically just speak about my experience navigating manhood as a trans man because it's completely different to what most people would expect.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

What's these these controversial opinions? Tell me what's controversial.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Because you don't agree with I don't agree with the majority of the community at times.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Okay. Tad also. You know, we're gonna get into that because I guess I've got some of these questions which um we're going to. First, right, I just want to because for me, right, I don't see often the other direction that woman to man. Because in my opinion, I don't know, you more you gotta cut kind of gonna know, right? Yeah, I would say it's harder to be a man, right? So I'm just wanting to go that way.

Life As A Trans Man

SPEAKER_00 1:04

I'm just trying to understand. There's no such thing as male privilege, anybody who tells you different is like since I've transitioned from female into male, I get treated the exact same way as any other man does. Because looking at me, unless I told you that I was trans, you ain't gotta have any idea. So everything that I've got to be careful how I'm walking next to women at night, I've got to be careful like how I speak to a girl, how I treat a woman, because the same things that any other man is getting accused of, I've had those accusations towards myself as a trans man. So it it doesn't make us much different, and I think that's what people don't understand is there's a lot of people who talk, oh, men have privileges. In certain aspects, yes, but in most aspects, no, because realistically, you're looking at statistics of being a man in the UK, it's over half is saying that men in the UK are abusers towards women and are grapeists and this, that, and the other. Why I don't really see the privilege of transitioning to a man, which is hence why you tend to see them other side more so in mainstream media than you do somebody like me.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah, I'd agree with that. But that leads me to another question, and actually, because for me, looking at you, the only thing I would say that might give it away is the voice a bit. Yeah, right? But looking, you can't tell. So the my question is do you think people legally should have to say? I think it's we know that people do do that and don't say nothing, right? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 2:24

I think if it does if you're going into the bedroom with somebody or you're looking at dating somebody, then tell them. No, respectfully, I don't need to go and sit there and tell mates. I'm not trying to get into bed with a mate. But if you're going into the bedroom department with a woman, with a man, whoever it is, you should be disclosing that you're a trans because no matter, in my opinion, anyway, most people might not agree, no matter in terms of surgery and hormones, you are always going to be transgender. You are not going to be a biological male, and you're not going to be a biological female. At the end of the day, I've always said to people, and this is what gets people's backups a little bit, I'm not trying to change my biology because I already know there's no way impossible that I can change my genes, I can change my chromosomes. I just want to be treated and seen as a man, and that's about it.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Okay, so you think that they should say if they're dating, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:08

If they're dating, if or if for like medical reasons, in terms of like, do you know what I mean? If you're going into hospital and you need to disclose certain aspects like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

And then if they don't, what do you do you think there should be consequences of that? I personally think legal consequences should happen for that.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

The way I see it is, and I know people are going, you can't compare it to this, but if I was to get into the bedroom with somebody and they had an STI and did not tell me, that's classed as what it's classed as. Surely you're lying about your your identity. In my opinion, that's fraud into false representation, which is in the eyes of law, you're you're fraudulently telling somebody about your identity. If you have the the bollocks, whether or not you're getting them cut off or you're adding them on, do you come out as transgender, then stand on business and don't be afraid of it. I get in certain circumstances some people might not be safe to disclose that they're trans. Fair enough, but why are you going into the bedroom with somebody if you don't feel safe enough to disclose your transgender? Is my question.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yeah, yeah. So obviously you're saying that it should be legal. I I agree there should be legal as well, to be fair. So, because you're saying you're saying that you know and be and you know that you will never ever be able to change your um genes or your DNA or anything like that. So what do you so is it because I've said that it's more of a mental thing rather than uh uh John's like a physical thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, would you agree with that? To a certain degree, yes, but for me in terms of it, like mentally, I've never felt, or even physically associated with being a woman, even though when I was younger, I was obviously having female puberty. I never felt like that felt like me. It felt like I was, you know, when you get drag queens that that cross-dress or cross-dressers or draens that dress up as women, I felt like I was doing that, that I never associated anything as being female. But I've always said every trans person's different. Some people transition because of the mental aspects of it. Obviously, naturally, gender dysphoria is diagnosed, which is essentially what every single trans person in the UK or America gets diagnosed with. That basically states that we have gender incognits, which is basically where we don't feel like the gender we are set we were born out with at birth. And that leads to things like going on to hormone replacement therapies, surgeries, etc. But you can't do anything until you have that diagnosis, and you've got to have been living as the gender enough. So for me, for example, I had to live as a male for two years, legally change my name, be able to prove it before NHS or anybody would do anything medically wise, and they put you through therapy as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Is that the same in um because I've had this conversation before, yeah, and I've said that we were saying that you should obviously have to do therapy and things before that decision is ever made. I don't know if it's like that in America, though.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Is it maybe in the UK? In the UK it is. In America, it's a little bit differently because I've heard I don't know how true it is, but I've heard some people say, oh, well, you can walk into a doctor's office and with 90 minutes you've got prescription for hormones. I wish it was that easy here, but I understand why there are things put in place, but I can't understand why. For me, everything that I have done for my transition has been paid for privately because the NHS waiting times now is 10 years to be seen for your first appointment to just be told that you're transgender. I turned up to my appointment, already phrased my eggs, already had top surgery, literally just waiting for lower surgery, and they looked at me and was like, Well, what else can we do for you? I was like, put me on the lower surgery waiting list because otherwise it's you're looking at 60 grand in the UK and you're on the same waiting list as all the NHS patients as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

For you, do you think it was a mental thing? Are you saying it's different, but would you say it was a mental thing?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

For me, I definitely feel like it was a mental thing because realistically I'm no longer I've still got depression and anxiety like everybody does, but it's nowhere near as bad as to who I was before, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

So on that note, what do you think about um because I don't know what it is in the UK, but I know that in America I've looked at particularly, like the suicide weight rates for like trans are quite high.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

It's still high here, and I'll be real with you. A lot of people say it's being transgender that makes you suicidal, it's not, it's the way that the world views us and how we're treated. Because for me, I can I can understand like it's not something that everybody is going to understand. This is what I always say to people: you can't transition expecting everybody to understand you because they're not. Most people have never sat before a trans man or a trans woman before. Most people, you might have pissed next to one and not even bloody realise. Do you know what I mean? But I always say this to people is you've sometimes a lot of people will say you can't educate somebody and it's not your job to educate a trans person. I always say, well, it is because how else is somebody meant to learn about my community if it's not coming from the horse's mouth itself? I'd rather than having some white old bloke who's 60 years of age sat there speaking about me as a statistic on a piece of paper, I'd rather sit there and tell somebody, right, this is the reason why I feel the way that I feel. And this is the way that the suicide rates are so high, is because so many people have a preconception idea of what a trans person is. Look at the media. The media's painting trans people at the moment is that we're the worst of the worst. Exclude us from every single space possible unless you pass. But for people like me, yeah, I pass as a man, but that doesn't make me any safer because somebody could clip me off social media, somebody could clip me because of my voice. I'm sat in a male pisser, somebody for whatever reason finds out I'm trans. What happens to me? Because we all know what men are like, let's be real. Are you is a man gonna step up to a trans man in a toilet?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

I don't as it happened.

Disclosure, Dating, And The Law

SPEAKER_00 8:16

I've I was at Birmingham, and I'll be honest with you, it was at the reggae bingo last Friday, up at D47. My mate, me and my mates are having a discussion, whatever, out in the smoking area, and I'll give you an example. My friend sort of accidentally outed me as trans and said it to a woman. She grabbed my crotch area three times to check if I was a real man. Now, let me tell you, if that was a man doing that to a woman and that was me doing it to her, do you think that would be I'd be treated differently?

SPEAKER_01 8:41

I can't disagree with that. But I'm gonna be honest, like, for me, I think this way round, I think, like, because if I had found out someone was trans in the bathroom, I wouldn't care. Like, I would just but the other way around, I ain't gonna lie, I would probably have an issue with that.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

I think I'm gonna have an issue the other way around to a degree, but at the same time, how are you how are people gonna police it? Because the way I see it is, and this is always the argument I have. Do you not if trans people being called pervert and predatory, do you not think it's perverse and predatory that you that somebody wants to check somebody's genitalia to check if they're male or female before letting them into a space? Because essentially that's what they're asking.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Yeah, I'd wow that what I would say is you have to just go up whatever your passport is or whatever, because or whatever gender you're born with, because that's the only way to do it.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

But you've got things like gender recognition certificates, and you've got for me on my passport, it says male.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

But the problem that you've got is if you've got biological women that might look a little bit more masculine, they're defining femininity and womanhood based off what somebody looks like. Same as what they're doing with masculinity now. If you've got a woman that might present, uh, say, for example, look a little bit more masculine, she might not be trans, she might be a biological woman. She's gonna get questioned the same way. So it doesn't actually protect anybody in that instance unless you look like what and what I think is the nice thing about it is is that you've got men that are deciding what they think a woman is based off what a woman looks like. Now, if any women don't have an issue with that, do you know what I mean? So you're saying to are you saying to not judge it off of looks looks because EHC guidance has just come out and said that trans people can't use the set single sex bases if they do not pass, so in terms if they don't look like me. Now, what does that mean for biological men?

SPEAKER_01 10:18

But do you think that it's that's unfair? And the reason I'm saying that is because obviously you you've gone through everything that you needed to do, and you're for me visually, you like a guy, right? Yeah, but there's definitely people that are half-hearted. Now, we we we kind of had a conversation just before the show, and you say there was someone that's like you don't really think that she's yeah, because and this is where it's kind of getting messy. So you're saying because you were saying about her, I don't know what name what was her name, wasn't it? Alpha. Alpha, okay. I don't know who this person is, right? But you were saying that she ain't done anything, but she just claims that she's yeah, I'd like to money on social media. There is there is there are people like that. So how where what do we do? Well how do we like in your words, how do we police it? The only thing you can do is just go off whatever your um however your gender is when you're born, because there's no other way.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Then are you gonna be comfortable with me being in a female toilet looking the way that I do? Because that's the flip side of it, because this is what I've always said, that this is where the law does not work, because it's very much let's attack trans women, but let's be realistic. If we're gonna talk about biology, what are they attacking?

SPEAKER_01 11:22

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

If you look at things most most of the time in the news at the moment, if you're looking at attacking trans women, the same thing is being fired at men. The problem isn't with trans women, it's with men, but because trans women were once men, that means that they're directly under the firing line. You don't hear anything about trans men in toilets. We don't hear anything about how the law's gonna affect me because they're gonna expect somebody like me to pull up in a female toilet. Like, listen, I don't want to be there as much as the women don't want me there, but with the new laws, that's what they're trying to state.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Oh, cool, cool. I'm gonna say I don't know, yeah, and I don't know if you've experienced anything in in the bathrooms, right? Well, wouldn't the women be more on like accepting, or is that not what you've Because the I would say women are gonna be more accepting of it than men are?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I've never had a problem in the Blokes toilets, and I've never had a problem with like a biological man saying anything to me. Do you know what? We don't really like listen. Men don't care. We just don't really care. Listen, she's going in there for a piss and that's about it, and that's what I've said to people, even with this bathroom thing. Do you really think a trans woman's gonna be cutting her back? Nah, she's just gonna want to go about a business and go for a piss. Like most trans women that I know sit down.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Yeah, but do you that's what I'm saying? Do you think because you're saying if you go into the women's bathroom, they're not gonna want you there because you look obviously like a man, right? But if they knew you were trans, do you think that would give you an issue? Is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

I don't know, because it depends on the person, though, don't it? I can't say that.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Well, yeah, both ways it does, but like in general though, because I would say they're more accepting, if anything. Then men are like, even but what but if men knew, even if you've walked in and men knew, like me, I just would carry on what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

I wouldn't really like this thing, I feel like for me, like I've never had to sort of really the way I do like see myself as trans is I don't really cut about telling people with like oh my god, I'm transgendered. Do you know what I mean? Left, right, and centre. Somewhere social media, if somebody finds out, they find out, they'll find out from Googling my name.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Okay, because a lot of people it's like their whole personality, like they're singing it everywhere you are.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Oh my god, don't even get me bloody start. No, this is what I say is like when you come out as transgender, there is more to a trans person than just being trans, and I feel like there is certain certain things and certain people online that they do make it their whole personality. The whole point of being transgender to me, and not everybody might see in terms of disability. I just want to be seen as yes, okay, I'm trans, but there's more to me than my transition. I'm more than a trans man, but I feel like certain retrogrades over the years have been pushed in mainstream media, specifically LGBT media, of what a trans person should be, what we should look like, how we should act. And if you don't, if you don't fit the bucket list, you don't get used.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, so even okay, I'll be honest because even this conversation, right? For how you're being, and for I personally think you're quite based, right? Yeah. So this conversation isn't going how no, for instance, yeah, if you if you was differently and you got offended by some of the questions I'm asking, and etc. etc., I would probably change my energy. But obviously, I'm for me, I'm being respectful because you kind of you're being respectful and we're having a conversation, and you're not just calling me transphobic because I'm questioning something, and that's that's that leads on to my next question, yeah. Because obviously, for me, people are very scared to have a conversation, especially like even like myself, even like when I find out I'm like, oh, do I really want to say anything? Because people are gonna call it's called the counterculture podcast, innit? And I called it that for a reason. So, in a way, I don't care, but it's kind of just like do I really want people to be coming in saying I'm trying to phot just because I asked the question, you know what I'm saying? So it's listen, who gives a fuck what anybody else thinks the greatest respect?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Do you know what I mean? Like the way I see it is now.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

But they're very good at counselling people, though. That that's the I know we're called counsel culture, but you you must know I don't know because of your opinions, you they've probably tried to counsel you.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Like, I'm just gonna say it's like that's all I'm gonna say. Yeah, I've had to make a few apologies.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

You understand why people are a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I understand why people have got their backs up about, and I think because the word transphobia is thrown around left, right, and centre when things aren't transphobic, because if something transphobic actually happens, it's gonna be like the boy that cried wolf, right? The way I see it is transphobia to me is if somebody is downright, it's like as bad as if somebody was calling you like the N-word, you know what I mean? They were using full that you know when it's being used towards Yeah, I I actually don't care about that word, to be fair.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

But a lot of people do, but I don't think yeah, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

It's like one of those that like I always say to people is that sometimes people are gonna get it wrong. It does not mean they're transphobic. If they do it more than once, then after you've explained it, then you might have a little bit of gathering. But unless you're not sat here calling me a woman, you're not sat here turning around this, that, and the other. But I've always said to people are very, very quick to judge and people are very quick to throw a word out when I'm like, Well, why don't you tell them what they're saying is wrong, why it is that they're wrong, and why it's offended you and why it could offend trans people instead of going you're a transphobe, you're a big one.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Alright, so do you do you believe in because that's actually my next question, actually. Is do you so do you believe in free speech though, in a way of like if someone doesn't agree or under even if they don't understand or they agree, should they address you as a man or a woman? Do you get what I'm trying to say?

SPEAKER_00 16:18

I think if I'm respecting you, then respect me. Like So you think do you think they should? Like they should say, I think they should, yeah, because the way I see it is that it's basic human respect. Do you know what I mean? If some it's it's a fucking pronoun, like do you know what I mean? If you get a dog's gender wrong, you go, Oh, that's a cute little little girl, and they go, Oh, it's a boy. Oh shit, sorry, no problem. Why can't you do that with a human being? Do you know what I mean?

Diagnosis, Therapy, And NHS Delays

SPEAKER_01 16:39

It's I I understand what you're saying, but obviously for yourself, obviously you profess that your your DNA will never be as as a as a man, right? Yeah, 100%. So, like, I'll use an example so I can kind of try and make you understand. And obviously, I can't I can't tell you how to feel, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, you you said the n-word, yeah. I don't really care about that. Like, if someone was to say it, I wouldn't care. You're gonna say 100. Do you think that like if someone was to say, and even if they're saying it to pee you off, which people could do that with that word as well, it's just like whatever. Or should they like do you think laws and things should come in to say, oh, you have to address because people are getting penalised for not doing it, and that's why I'm asking, like, for not um, especially in America, yeah. Maybe not so much in the UK, but if they're not using their um, what do you call them?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Uh prefer pronouns.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Yeah, your pronouns, right? You can get penalised for yeah for that. Do you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 17:26

I do to an extent because it's just it's a basic level of respect. If you're sat there calling somebody blatantly a woman who identifies as a man, and they've told you countless times, like, don't be a tosser, mate. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like it's like I've always said, like, women, like, women have an issue when somebody constantly comments on their body. Any like hate crime's hate crime at the end of the day. It's the way I see it is is why the fuck are you so bothered about what I'm doing with my life? Just use the two, like the two words or the three, the three bloody lettered words. It's not that difficult. Like, realistically, what are you gonna get out of by calling me a woman that you're showing you're insecure within yourself?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

See, this is the first thing they'll probably disagree on then now, because I understand what you're saying, I get what you're saying. I would say, because obviously you have your beliefs, the person who's not following the pronouns, whatever, they have their beliefs. What I would say is just if they don't want to, I would just say just to leave. I wouldn't say like this should be laws or you should be penalised. It depends on what they're doing, though, innit? If it depends if they're too, yeah, but if they're harassing you, that's harassment. Oh, if they're harassment, you understand? Yeah, that's different. So then it's harassment. But I'm talking about for I don't think we should be forcing people to say certain things if they don't believe it. You understand? Because where does the line go if you understand what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 18:39

But is it a big deal with it being pronouns? Like, regardless if you believe in a trans person or not, like it's the same as it's the same as anything. It's like anything, any minority community, it's like saying, well, okay, that's alright for you to say that about me just because you think that. Do you know what I mean? It's like, it's like try like people say you can't you can't homophobia, racism, everything else like that. Like, I understand. For me, the way I see it is gender, sex, and biology are three separate things, right? Sex is what you're born as, you're either born male, female, or you're born into sex, which is where you can be born with both. Gender, legally in the UK, before anybody tries and cancels me, I'm talking from a legal perspective. There are two legal genders in the UK, which is male or female. You've got gender identities that are people who identify as transgender, um, non-binary, the however many there are, because I can't keep count. Then you've got biology, right? Which obviously we know we can't you can't change your biological makeup. But that's the way I see it is that if somebody wants to identify as a man, just let them identify as a man. As like, do you know what I mean? Are they is it really gonna make take up much of your life? No, it's gonna probably take up more of their life with what you're saying to them than what you could like most people shut off the screen and go to sleep, but they don't know that leaving a comment on I'm not asked about it, but there's other people that are, and those little comments then start building up and building up and building up, and then it gets to a point. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yeah, I get what you mean, but as also as well, like I know it's easy to say, you know, just whatever, let people do what they want to do. Yeah. And in a way, I under I get it. Yeah. Right. But even the numbers of like trans and things like that have gone up significantly since. And some people say, you know, it's because they were scared to come out, or and that might be the case. I I don't know. That could be the case. But at the same time, it could be as well that people are kind of buying into it and then doing it. I also kind of I could see both sides. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

SPEAKER_00 20:29

I can see both sides.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Because the numbers have gone up over years. Yeah. Right? Um, so it's like, all right, cool, do whatever. But then obviously it will grow and grow and grow and grow, and then like, you know, we could get to the point where it's 50%. I believe that's the way it's going, if I'm honest. Where you're not really gonna know unless someone says. Do you understand what I'm saying? So you mean that's why I'm that's where I'm kind of like, I don't think people should be forced to say things that they don't believe in. Like, obviously, harassment's harassment. If you think it's harassment, cool. Treat it as such. Yeah, yeah. Right? But I just don't think we should they should be forced to say or like 100%. Everyone's entitled to opinion, does it? And most people are not respectful, to be fair. Let's be real, yeah. They're not so most people are dickheads. That's that you get what I was saying. So, in my opinion, I would just say it's the same for me if someone was to like call me the N-word or whatever they want to call me.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

No, I throw it back at them now. If somebody turns around and calls me the T slur, do you not think I don't throw it back at them and they don't know what the f yeah, but they should but that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Then if you're gonna give it, then take it.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Yeah, and that's what I sit down now. Like, I'm sat there.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

So if you say if a black person on that, trust me, just say that and then they're probably gonna want to fight you to be fair. Yeah, but if you're gonna give it, take it as well. I don't care either way. Like, I if someone said it to me, I wouldn't care.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Yeah, do you know what I'm saying? It's like me, like now with when people say things to me online, I think it's just because I've become so conditioned to it and used to it. I'm not fucking arsed anymore. I'm like, realistically, what is Joe blogging who's calling me a woman or throwing me the T-slur, the amount of times I've gone and I've looked at the profile picture and I've been a little bit of CNX juice with them, gone, come back to me when you can grow some more than a little bit of bum bluff or stuff like that. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 22:02

But throw it back if you throw it back if if if people are gonna give it any. And obviously, the people that do do it online are the ones that are gonna get offended mostly, to be fair. Um, so what about sports, right? The women's and men's sports. Yeah, what what's your opinions on because I think I think uh woman to man, I don't think that's really gonna have much of an impact in it.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

I think No, it's not really because but if you're talking about biological disadvantages, there's a few with with with trans men in sports, but at the same time, I've I've seen trans men fight in boxing. That there's there's Danny Baker, for example, he's knocked out biological men. Do you know what I mean? So it proves that you can't. The thing is, what I in and I know it's a controversial one, and everybody always braids me over it. Leah Thomas or whatever her name is, the Olympic swimmer. I can't remember what uh you might fact-check what her last name is.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Is he was that the one that smashed everyone when it went down to There was the world's strongest woman recently that got thingy, didn't she?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Because I agree with that, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Is Leah Thomas uh a man who went to a woman's sport? Yeah. Oh, he's the one that won everything, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

It's Olympian, she's the Olympian swimmer or something. Yeah, he won it, yeah. That's mad though. Because like they're not going to keep competing. The way I see it is is that there needs to be testing put in place to make sure that foot sport is fair. Because the way I see it is women have have fought for their space in sports because there was a time that women couldn't do fuck all, right? And the way I see it is maybe because I was born once a woman called me a little bit of a feminist, I don't know. But the way I see it is that in sports like combat sports, and you've got the world's strongest woman, naturally, that woman who has not been onto a puberty blocker and has still got the bone density and the muscle density of a biological male, she is going to excel in things like that. But you have got certain trans women that might not have the bone density, might not have the muscle mass, but they need to be testing it, and there needs to be more testing in sports to be able to allow trans people to compete and make sure it's fair for both sides because realistically, right now it's not, or let trans people compete against each other. Yeah, I I would say that would be in combat sports. I'd say trans woman versus trans women in boxing or anything that's using strength, fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

But I would say pretty much most because most sports are gonna be a physical, even swimming, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah, because I I get what you're trying to say, and I've heard this argument before, but the only thing now is what I don't understand when the woman wasn't compete wanting to compete against the darts player, but it was like a trans woman and some woman who was refusing to go.

Suicide, Stigma, And Safety

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Now, but even that though, I'll I'll explain why. I'll explain why I can't understand even some things that are not quite like physical based, right? Yeah, men still excel in the lot. So, for instance, right, like let's say chess, that's not a physical sport, but men are the top in that, yeah, because we think different, the way we yeah, the the way we process shit's different, our reaction speeds, this is all biological stuff. So even if you like it's puberty blood, as you say, yeah. Even if you're on that long, long capacity, yeah, there's there's only so much you can reduce your bone density, if if at all.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

That's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

So I just think that yeah, it's definitely, and the other way around doesn't really matter because they're not really gonna go find the men's sports, but the other way around, if women are trying, because you like you said, they're fought to do sports, and now a man can just come in and then win everything, because let's be honest, they're probably going to Leah Thomas. Come on, yeah, the record is ridiculous, that there's no one's even close, no, right? And I'm gonna assume the the world's strongest uh well, man or woman now, um was it a man told me?

SPEAKER_00 25:27

It was it was a trans woman and she got disqualified because she did not disclose her trans identity, which is why I've said to people, like, this is why gene testing now is become a thing in sports. But I've said it's also gonna affect biological women because they can't compete. But the thing is, if you've got a biological woman with high testosterone level, they will it matches the male level, they won't let her compete now.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

No, I understand, but even if she's got that high level, it's likely that she still can't compete. Like even in boxing, even in boxing, right? Let's say that they had a high testosterone level, they're still gonna get probably beat up. Now, I'm not saying that it can't happen. Yeah, there's anomalies where they can beat up biological uh men or whatever, but for the most part, it's it's it's I would say it's unfair. Yeah, because they can't compete. It's it's even run running, strength, swimming, it's it's a hard one to be. Yeah, wings. Whereas my hands are you got you understand? So it's like it's just crazy. Like, because all for me, the most logical thing to do is have a separate sport, and I think that's the way it's going now. That's what I think as well. Well, is there gonna be enough to compete though?

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Because I think that's what I think that's the thing, and I think a lot of trans people do struggle with getting into sports, and whether it's because we want to or not, or whether or not because there is that judgment in the sports space, which I can understand, like a trans person going into sport now, I can understand that they're probably not gonna want to either say they're trans or compete because people are being told, Oh, well, you can't compete there, you can't do this, you can't do that. And it's kind of like how do we make it safe and fair for everybody without pissing people off? There's no way to do it. There is no way in hell because somebody is going to get pissed off with something.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

In the in in the normal sports, yeah, it's there's not, I don't think there is a way to make it fair. So the only way is to just have a trans, a separate trans. Yeah. But is there in like again, is there enough people compete and there might not be, but then I just think it's unfair to complete quite in the women's side, it's definitely unfair.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Because I see it, it's really, really difficult because I call it devil's advocate with this one because I see both sides of the coin, and I can't turn around and go, Well, I because I agree with both sides, and it's like I'm sort of stuck a piggy in the middle, and when people come to me and ask me about it, I'm like, I can see both sides, but it's a shit stick at both ends, essentially, because you're both gonna get burnt regardless. Yeah, because it's what is it gonna be that the trans community is gonna turn around if there is a trans-only sector? Oh, that's transphobic, you're excluding us from sport. But then on the flip side of that, that the exclusion's there to make sure people are safe, and it's like as a trans person right now, there is so much I want to say, and there's so much I can't say. There's so it's it's so political being trans at the moment. Because I've because of the LGBT or both sides, I think. I think it's because everything right now is being trans is literally a political issue in the UK. Yeah, it is a political issue, and it shouldn't be. The way I see it is is why the fuck is it such a fucking big problem that somebody wants to transition? Like it's like at the end of the day, the way I see it is I can't fucking help that I was born into the wrong button. It's why I always argue it's never a choice. Yes, it's a choice to come out as trans and put yourself through the process, but you really think about a choice. I pick to be deemed as basically a terrorist in America, deemed as basically a predator in the UK that can't go near anybody. Why a terrorist? Because they're trying to play Trump's basically turned round and said that trans people are no better than any terrorist. Okay, that's yeah, I know it's extreme as cool, but I think it's because I think America are a little bit more crazy with the trans stuff than we are here, but we follow five years after.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

The thing is, I think I think a lot of people get the backup, even myself as well. Yeah, is because it seems on our side that it's kind of being forced onto us. Yeah. And that's why I'm saying, like, I wouldn't force people to use certain pronouns because that that's gonna make it worse. I think it's better if you just everyone just like, okay, cool, if you want to be whatever. But when it's starting to get forced, that's when people are gonna push back. Yeah, that's that's the issue that you're gonna have. So it's like from where if you're trying to force people to say certain words, or I want to go in this bathroom and that, that's when you're gonna have the issues.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

I've just said to people, just go use the bathroom that you want to go piss in, do not make it a big issue because you're just gonna put a target on your back when you start discussing bathrooms right now. And like the way I see it is a lot of trans people are oh, but I should and I was like, sometimes at the moment you have to put your safety first. And for me, I used to be very, very open and honest about being trans. Now in public, not so much because I know what comes with it.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

So, with guards to the bathrooms, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

I go to the men's bathroom and I just go to the cubicle. And there's no problems. Never had a problem if somebody asked me why I went for the cubicle, I tell them I'm going for a shit.

unknown 29:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

So that's the only thing I can think of. For the dope, though.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

So it you said that as if people found out and then caused problems.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Only that when I was out in Birmingham last Friday, that was about it. Like normally, nine times out of ten, people don't really say boo-to-goose, or they ain't got the bottle to set to my face. Do you know what I mean? It'll be oh, you're a T slur or you're this, that, and the other, and it'll be behind my back. And I'm like, you act nice to my face, call me brother, call me this, that, and the other, but you will chat shit behind my back.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yeah, but uh most people are like that.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I've said to people, I've just had to say it how it is, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 30:23

So, how about like prisons and hospitals?

Bathrooms, Passing, And Policy

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Because this is where it gets tricky now. This is where it gets tricky. I think in terms of prisons, put them on the special wing. In terms of, do you know what I mean? To own wing. In terms of special wing, what I mean, in terms of putting whether people putting the pedophiles and stuff like that, is protective or custody because the way I see it is if you put you can't and I had the argument about it because there was that case in America where, and I will categorically say it, call me a transphobe if you want to call me a transphobe for saying it, people, but the bloke who pretended to be a woman to go into female spaces. I'm sorry, but you need to do greater checks. The way I see it is if you are putting somebody who is a sex offender towards women who has still got their male anatomy and they've gone and done it again, no, do not put them in a female space or at least keep them away from put them onto special custody or put them in a men's prison. If they if it is cases like anybody, in my opinion, if you hurt a woman or a child in whatever ways mean necessary, you should not be placed where women are in terms of protect women, and that's the way I see it. It'd be the same as a trans man if they were assaulting a woman, you shouldn't be in a female prison.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

It goes back again, it does go back to like people are scared to because even like I would say in the political side, or even like say you're the head of the prison, yeah. Do you really want to get into an argument to say that you're not who you'll say you you know what I'm gonna say? Like he'd say he's saying she's is a woman. Do you really want to get into that debate? Because where we are now, you can get counsel, you can lose your job, you're gonna say, and that's where that's where it's going. So everyone's scared to kind of say because that for me that's common sense. What you're saying, that's common sense.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Yeah, yeah, that's but if anybody else says it is transphobic, and so make it make sense.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

You're you're you're you're okay to say really I obviously they might still go for you, but they're not gonna they can't call you transphobic. That's stupid. So they try, but but they can't though. It doesn't even make sense. So obviously you could say certain stuff, but I'm saying on that on the other side in that situation, I'm sure they're just scared to kind of challenge it because 100%.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

But I also understand as well with like surgery processes in the UK and stuff, because of how long it is. I think that a lot of people think that being trans is like, oh, you just go to the doctors and get hormones and get all these surgeries. Nobody ever talks about the cost of it. If you haven't got the money, you sat there waiting for years, and then I'm still sat waiting for lower surgery, been told it's three years till I'm seen by the surgeon, then a surgical wait list, and then three operations. Like, realistically, I'm probably about 30 before it gets long, maybe longer. Like, and that's the problem that I've got is that there's genuine trans people like myself that are unfortunately stuck with body parts that we don't want, and we're having to wait there.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

And how do you distinguish it? This is the thing. This is where it gets moddy. This is the point I'm trying to make. Like, it's a catch-22 situation because someone's gonna say someone will say, Okay, I'm a man or I'm a woman or whatever. How can you argue with them?

SPEAKER_00 33:11

You can't, you can't argue with them, and that's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

So there's I I would say it's it's just getting really sticky because you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

It's not like there's a a criteria or a test you can like there's not you you don't know, it's just word of mouth, when they go through save like for me, where like when I've obviously I've gone through the gender dysphoria diagnosis, when I say that don't you go through two appointments that are like two hours long and the questions are like it's straight from childhood and it goes through everything. Like is that UK? UK, yeah. America, I don't I'm not that knowledgeable over with the state stuff because it's it's a lot easier there. Yeah, it's a lot easier in terms of do you know what I mean? But over here, I'm glad that they've have got the restrictions on there, but they need to make it a little bit easier in terms of like waiting 10 years to be told that you're transgender and you've already gone through X, Y, and Z, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 34:01

But the thing is, I don't know these numbers yet, but what I don't what would the numbers be in that time period people changing their mind? Because that's where it's a positive. Do you understand? Now they might not change their mind, but they might.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

I've always said, like, for me, that I'm like obviously the two yeah going through therapy and living as gender you identify with that when you're in front of therapists and when you sit there speaking to people, do you know what I mean? They you you generally have a gauge, especially like now within the rate of detransition in the UK is I don't personally know apart from two people online that have detransitioned UK-wise. There's a lot of people that turn around and say, Oh well, detransition can happen because of plenty of things, not just because somebody doesn't feel like it's right, cultural pressures, religious pressures, maybe relationship pressures that say, for example, that it was two gay men in a relationship with their partner, they've been with them for seven years, they feel like a woman, but they don't want to lose that touch with their partner, so they then revert back in their identity. There's so many reasons for why people do transition, but for me, it's in terms of it, it's I've always known, and I've always known from a very early age. Some people find out later on in life, some people find out in whatever means necessary. But I think the two-year thing does give you enough time to make that decision in terms of whether you want to go into hormones, whether you want to have surgery, or whether or not that decision was right for you or not, which I think in the UK it's a lot harder to transition because you have to sit there and think about it in really deep it, and you've got to sit there and save up for the money, and you're not just gonna want to go and throw X amount of money at you.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

What what age would you say then? Because I think maybe I can fact check this.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

I think it might be 16 in America that you can't do anything in the UK now until you're 18. I think medically, because they've legally changed the law, didn't they? When it was they stopped um children from getting in puberty blockers.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

So also you can't get to publish you can't do anything medically now in the UK until you're 18. I can't lie, I would agree with I understand it to an extent, but the puberty blockers, they're they're giving them still to children with with early onset puberty, and they're saying that it's dangerous to trans children, but they're putting those children that have got early onset puberty on those puberty blockers for the same amount of time, aren't those children who aren't trans getting damaged the same way? Do you see what I mean? Yeah, but I would disagree with that as well though. But it's a pause on puberty, it's like giving it's like giving a I've always said though, if for example, and this is where I always will argue the toss with it, when you're 16 years of age, you can decide you can have sex, right? You can decide if you want to go onto the pill, which essentially stops you from having a child. Puberty blockers pause puberty, which essentially is very, very similar to what the pill does in terms of pregnant. If you can decide if you want sex and this, that and you're doing what you want to do with your body in that aspect, as 16, why can't you decide what you want to do in terms of changing your gender? Not I'm talking about surgeries and cutting your tits off or anything else like that. I'm talking about like maybe counselling, even things like puberty blockers that are known as reversible, not hormones like testosterone which I don't think should be given to your 18 anyway.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

I I can't argue with that logic because it's quite solid. So I can't really argue with that because you're right. I think you can if if you couldn't have um what's it called like uh contraception stuff to use 18, then I would say yeah. But even with that, I would say 18 is a better age anyway. But from what you're saying, because you can do that at 16.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

You were deciding where you want to go to college and decide what you want to do with your life at 16. If they're expecting kids at 15, 14 to be making decisions on based on their GCSEs, what they want to do on their life, that is a big responsibility for a child to make. That's their life that they're choosing about. But also, a lot of people don't realise between the ages of 11 and 18 normally, sometimes a little bit further than 21, that's when a child is starting puberty, they're discovering their identity, how their body works, and things like that. Sometimes for children like myself, I didn't want any of the stuff that and but nobody had told me anything about being transgender and stuff that when people talk about office. I know you're probably gonna bring it up with education in schools. I'm a firm believer on do not teach it to kids until they're in high school. Because at the end of the day, they're gonna understand. You can't sit there and teach it to a I've got nieces that are four or five, they don't know their uncle Dimitri is trans. They think their uncle Demetri has got two big scars on his chest because he's got into a fight with a bear. Because that's the way I described him. They're too young to understand.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

And I'll and again, so just even with like the conception, I would still say 18 to be fair.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

I would say 18. But would you be happy if you would have a daughter and she couldn't get contraception until she's 18? She was having sex with a boyfriend, condom broker. She got a couple of things.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

I wouldn't I wouldn't be promoting obviously, you can't control it, but I wouldn't be promoting for her to have sex at eight at 16. I would I would try it as and push 18. 18 should be the age.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

It's the legal age for corn, isn't it? So I can't understand why the legal age for corn is 18, but you can do the nasty at 16.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

It's all it's crazy, it's a bit mad when you think of it like that. But yeah, I would say for all of it, 18. You're uh officially an adult. If you just get laptop, you're an adult, you'll be tried as an adult. Well, what about driving though? Because you can drive at 17. Yeah, but you have to be a certain uh finger to 18, and then so it's like what six months or something like that? I think so. I don't know. So you you basically they're saying you can build up to it, but it's still technically 18.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

You still control a car at 60, 17, can't you?

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Yeah, you can with mostly most of the time with someone in there. But again, I would say 18 as well. Yeah, I would just put everything. You're an adult, then make the decisions you want. Yeah. Right? Um, and then again, people might change their mind as well. They might not, they might though, gives it a bit more time. And even with the school thing, I'm not even sure about school because again, I would say 18. I would say like that's when you should be trying to figure out this stuff. You might already know about it. It's a I think.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

There's a lot of pressure on kids' younger days now, anyway. Like, I remember like being at school, like trying to work out what the hell I was wanting to do with my life at 14, 15. It's a lot on kids, and then they wonder about when rental house fucked.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Yeah, I I I would advocate to nut. I would say most of the stuff which is officially to be official medication or anything like that, 18.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

I would say. I agree with you on that because like for me, you're an adult then, but also testosterone. Like for me, testosterone was a big thing going on. Not many people talk about it. Like for me, it was a lot. Like I went through roid rage for the first six months.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

What do you mean by what do you mean by that? I got very, very angry at life.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

In terms of like in hormones, that like your body is not naturally used to making that hormone to that level. So imagine giving Are you on about medication-wise? So that's why I think it should be 18 because 18, your body's more developed. But I understand like pure blockers that pause it, but things like testosterone and eastern, those are permanent changes that can be irreversible. Like there's certain things that have happened to my body that I can't change.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah, but because of hormones, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I would still stick with with the 18 thing because I agree with that as well. Um, but I don't know. I are you fully developed at 18 anyway in hormonally wise? I would any like 21. Well hold on, we got a well, let's go to um because he said um what was the age?

SPEAKER_02 41:11

Oh yeah, the fact checking. So um this is from uh gender GP.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Oh, I've worked with them about Helen.

Free Speech, Pronouns, And Respect

SPEAKER_02 41:18

So um what they've placed here is what is the age of consent for gender transition in the UK? Yeah, so they've given a fact find basically. This was from um July 2024, and it says it's been re-updated in December 2025. Um under understanding the age of consent for gender-affirming care in the UK, at 16 years old, individuals can consent to their own medical treatment, including gender-affirming care, without parental approval. Under 16 um minors can still um consent, however, they'll need to go undergo a Gaelic competence standard. Um parental consent may be required in some cases, particularly for young children, or significant medical intervention. Um, it doesn't go on to the treatment, but it says understanding the nature of the treatment and the risks and benefits. Under 16, they have to do the the actual competency. Um and they can they can get puberty. Is that UK? Yeah, yeah. It may be, but uh it says puberty blockers are fully reversible treatment used to pause puberty, have historical been uh historically been available to gillick competent minors. However, recently legal and political challenges, uh particularly the Bell versus Tavistock case, have complicated access. More is below. Uh so yeah, you can um get a HRT without consent uh at 16 plus. Yeah. Under 16 you have to go through what you said um tests and and um okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

So under 16 you need parental, you still need parental. Under 16, you need parental consent. Oh over 16. See, I disagree with that. 18? 18 16 without without an adult?

SPEAKER_00 43:10

No, 18, that's when you can start 18, that's when you can start without an adult, but six 16 you need to 16, you can go into puberty blockers, 18 you can start without an adult, but you still need parental consent for the puberty blockers. I think that's what it is now. Yeah, basically, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Yeah, nah, that's what I'm saying. I'll disagree I'll disagree.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

I don't know though, because you can't do anything until your parents say yes. So if your parents say no, you can't do jack shit like I couldn't until I was 18. Yeah, no, but you can have you can have puberty blockers though. If they say no, you can't, because you still need the parental consent, it's still medication.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Yeah, so is that no because uh maybe you said it wrong then.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

I swear you said that at 16 you can have it without parental at 16 plus young people can independently consent to HRT without parental approval.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Uh that's what I'm saying. That I would disagree with that.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

I would say under 16, the gill competence test applies.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

18. Because if that person gets arrested, you need an you need an adult to come.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

HRT is different. It does say so HRT is different to puberty blockers, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:02

HRT is permanent changes, yeah. So that's different to puberty blockers. HRT is what I'm on.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Right. So sorry, HRT is it worse then?

SPEAKER_00 44:09

So HRT is irreversible changes, so it's like testosterone and Easter and so for me, obviously it's given me changes that I've got. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

So that's so that's worse, then it's so to just to confirm, hormone replacement therapy is what HRT is.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Yeah.

unknown 44:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

So if you were low on testosterone and your doctors did your blood, they give you the same stuff as what I'm on.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Okay, so but it's a stronger version of puberty blockers?

SPEAKER_00 44:31

No, puberty blockers only put a pause on puberty. It's kind of like the best way to describe it is it's kind of like stopping a woman from getting pregnant. Yeah. That they can't get pregnant. Well, they'll it's a little bit different, but puberty blockers, but imagine that the pill worked 110%. Puberty blockers just pause it, you come off it, your puberty restarts again. It's the same as coming off the pill. The woman's gonna get a cycle again. HRT, however, which is hormones, there are irreversible changes. So you've got, for example, for me, hair growth, deeper voice.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

But that's so basically that's stronger than that's stronger than a puberty blocker.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

A puberty blocker is normally given to those that are starting puberty or within puberty disposites stop the so just to be clear, you can you can't get puberty blockers, but you can get it's not clear about puberty blockers if I'm gonna be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

It's gotta be in the same category. That wouldn't make sense to get babes to get the stronger one without parental consent.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Yeah, but that would have been it does say it does say here understand the nature of the treatment and the risks, benefits, etc. Yeah so under 16 they go into a more depth about the the detrimental um side of transitioning um and just make sure they have an understanding of it. Um but it it says here puberty blockers are fully reversible treatment used to pause puberty have a historical have historically been available under the Gillett competence competency to minors. So under 16 you can get it. However, recently, under 16, you haven't been able to get the puberty puberty blockers. Over 16, you have it has been available to you.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

They stopped it for the under 16s recently because the toll stuff with Taviscock and the whole cats review, it was like a massive, massive thing that basically is all being disproven because they've bodged the results and they're trying to push it back to it. It's just it's a nightmare at the moment, and it's but it's confusing because even I'm getting confused that here little. I'm like, well, what? Because that's all changed. It seems like everything keeps changing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

But based based on our conversation today, you know, trust me, there's you can see that there's a lot of gray area, there's a lot of, and this is why it's like and it might be easier to say it on face value, you know, use whatever bathroom, whatever, but then it does get sticky and it can get sticky on both sides, like people not accepting it, and also on your side where you're not you're saying it, but you're not proving it with actions, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

And then you got you're doing what you want, and then obviously people are gonna have an issue with that, so it's like you understand, and it's like it's kind of one of them because if you're basing it all on looks, like looks-wise, not every trans man is blessed in terms of they're gonna get a beard and facial hair. Like me, it's not a given, it's just like, for example, like with biological men. I'm lucky that because of my heritage that I've got the thick dark hair. I've got friends that have been transitioning a lot longer that can't grow any facial hair and they've been on tea for a long. It's all down to genetics, and that's what I've said to people, even when it comes down to passing, and it's why one of my favourite sayings is passing is a privilege, but it's not to be expected within the trans community because some people just unfortunately don't pass or they might not pass as well as, and that's not me saying and being horrible to anybody, but it's just the case.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Yeah, but again, even with that, sorry, even with that though, the passing, yeah, because there has to be some type of something. There has to be, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

But like you're saying, there are things you can do to make yourself pass a little bit better, but there's some people that unfortunately like you can't polish a turd.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

And I so I'm saying, so to what what do you do? Where do you go? Where do you go with that? Because if you no matter what you do, you still look like whatever. And and my opinion is I mean, might I disagree with you?

SPEAKER_00 47:54

And I've always passed, so it's just like for me, I can't ever sit there and sit because there's never been a point, even at my like early stages of transition, even before I'd like gone on to hormones, I was always a masculine-looking female, apart like when I cut off my hair. You couldn't, I kind of looked like a butch version of like male version of Ruby Rose when I first started, apart from my voice that people thought I was a 15-year-old boy, so I could get away with it that way. But for me before, yeah, before I'd even like started hormones and stuff like that. So for me, it's kind of like I always say it like I never feel like I have the right to judge anybody that doesn't pass because I've never had the problem of not passing, like, and that's the thing, like I don't know what it feels like to be in that position, so I can't sit there and judge somebody on it, but at the same time, how do you how do you navigate it?

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Yeah, um, yeah, so um just give it on a mention. If you want to get more information, go to gendergpm.com. Also, you've got uh mermaidsuk.org.uk that can give you some assistance, NHS website, and also mindorg.uk for any assistance or support that you need.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

It's been I think it's been very respectful.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

I would have preferred it to not have been respectful if I might assume you. I've been a boring one now, and I like that's where you get more clicks.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Well, you know, I reciprocate energy, and I don't feel you probably get a few with people thinking that I'm probably gonna be awoke and have a good one.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Yeah, yeah, but that's exactly and I can't lie, that's what I was kind of preparing for, but it just it never went that way. My position though, just so my position is that there is only two genders, or that's that's my position, and I feel like you you're you're respectful of what people think, yeah, even if they don't agree.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

At the end of the day, people like not if the the world would be a very fucking boring place if we were all gonna agree, let's be real. And I've said this, I said, like, listen, hate crime and shit is horrible. People should just be able to cut about their lives how they want to cut about their lives. But unfortunately, the way I see it is the world hasn't changed in the last 60 years. Is it gonna change in the next 60? I don't know because I won't be here. But what I can say is things just seem to be getting progressively worse. Social media is a massive one, it's not helped, neither did COVID.

Sport And Competitive Fairness

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Yeah, well, again, like you can't really control what people do. No, like for me, like for me, I'm not really gonna attack someone because they're like they're trans. I don't really care like that. I'll give you my opinion, I'll say, I'll disagree with this, I'll disagree with that, but obviously not everyone's like that. There's there's there's crazy people out there that can you know do what they think, and they and they might say that you're crazy, and that's what they're that's why they're attacking you as well. So it's like I don't think that's ever gonna change, really. But I do feel that as time's going on, it is getting more acceptable.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Yeah, definitely visibility is becoming more of a thing. Like you're seeing trans people on TV like myself and stuff like that, which is a positive thing. Like, don't get me wrong, like I'm glad that the visibility was there because it wasn't when I came out, but you need to make sure that there is the correct visibility that we're not just because it's really really annoying. It's whenever I talk about visibility in terms of not even just the trans community or the LGBT community. What and this is a message to like bloody media and everything. Why do you keep putting out the same faces and the same bullshit stories and the same faces with this if it walks like a duck, it cracks like a duck.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Because it sells, and that's the that's the conversation that I thought we was gonna have, to be fair. And it gets clicks, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Like people like violence, people like that's that's what it gets. That's the thing. It's just like for me, normally, nine times out of ten, when you see a trans person, it's normally a trans woman, you won't often trans men don't get the limelight at all, especially not brummy trans men. There's quite a few round brum that don't get jack shit.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

In my opinion, you're going backwards, mate. You late mean you're making your life harder, if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

You know, so I'm in a women, I'm in a woman-dominated industry being a trans man because trans women dominate the field within within workspace. So realistically, what have I actually gained since transitioning?

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Yeah, you do if anything, you've lost if I'm gonna be completely honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

This is what I always say to people. I was like, if somebody says to me being a trans man's a privilege, I was like, being a man isn't a privilege.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

In general, who do you think accepts more though? The women or the men? Accepts more, yeah. Like, is it women more like uh like the gay best friend kind of attitude or like what?

SPEAKER_00 52:01

It's yeah, it's like for me, I know I've been friends with people before that love to tell people I'm trans because it's like, oh, it's like having a gay best friend, it's fashionable. And I'm like, fuck and I literally sit there and I go, Am I telling people how many men you slept with? No, so why the fuck are you outing that I'm trans? Like it's your shit to tell. Do you have male friends? I have male friends, yeah. And how would how are they like? Most of them are are pretty calm, to be honest, though. They've just said to me, we just treat you as one of the lads, and that's about it. And if anybody says boo to a goose, so it's not me that has to step normally, it's normally them. But if I'm on my own, then I've got to act like I'm six foot five rather than five foot six.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Yeah, they're they I would assume that, yeah, you'll probably get a bit violent, to be fair. Yeah, okay, cool. Listen, it's been respectful uh conversation, I would say. Yeah. Um maybe I'm a bit annoyed about that, but you can't, I can't, you know what I mean? If someone's giving a reasonable opinion, yeah, it's difficult to and don't worry, like obviously we're gonna clip it and stuff anyway, but um, because you know, your I'd say your community is gonna have a lot to say about what you've said to be fair. You're probably used to that.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

I'm used to it now because it's what I call the type of advocacy if they want to call because I get called an advocate of one award for it. The way I say it is you say advocate, what do you mean? So they say, call me an advocate for the community and so somebody speaks for the community. The way I see it is I do what's called deviled advocacy, I see both sides of the coin, and the way that anybody wants to create change for the community, or if you're trying to, you need to sit there and listen to what other people have to say, because we can't sit there as a community and expect people to understand and accept us. If we won't sit there and sit down and go, okay, why do you think that? I understand why you think that, but I want you to explain it to me so I can understand what has got you to that point. Because most people have a view of trans people because of what they see, maybe from meeting one, or because of some absolute bloody plonker that's done something from the community that crushes us with all the same tar.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

I think that's the most, I think that's the main thing. Because that's my fear as well. Again, like just as much as men, yeah, men into the women's bathroom that for me, like, because I'm just thinking about like if I have a daughter or something, and that might not do anything, but uh, there's definitely people that will, for instance, a guy in prison.

unknown 54:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Do you understand?

SPEAKER_00 54:08

So it's like But this is the thing, and this is what is the most annoying thing, is that fucks up the stats, and this is why a lot of people got an issue with it. If I think you can Google it, the last time somebody was I think the la I think it was 2022 was the last case they actually had of a trans woman doing anything in terms of that nature, what they're trying to describe as with the the the toilet issue. But the way I see it is that you've got women in that group that made that ruling that it is online because I said it on Liam's and it's in the Scottish Sun. She was done for being an ex offender, and she's talking about trans women being bloody predators, and it was one of the women that support that group. And I'm like, the way I see it is you're going to get predators in every single community. It does not matter if you want to identify as trans, if you're black, white, you identify as a poster.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

That is true.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

There is going to be bad in every single community, but unfortunately, when it comes to minority communities, we all know what it's like. We just want to show the bad shit. They never show the good sides of it, they never show the fact is that people seem to forget when women's rights are being protested, do you not think that trans women were not protesting for women's rights back then? But then they're getting chucked to the ground, treated shit, left, right, and centre, being called predators. I'm scared for some of my trans female friends and the way that people treat them because I don't want them going into men's bathroom. Because look at how men treat women. They're still a woman. Like half these trans women out there, you can't clock a doll. Do you know what I mean? You can't clock half these girls that are trans because some of them you can't even tell. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Yeah, you can't tell.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

You can't tell. Same with me. So that I wouldn't feel comfortable sending somebody that looks like a woman into a male bathroom just because of what they've got in between their legs. Because she's still at risk. Do you know what I mean? Regardless. Like, regardless of what somebody's got in their pants or not, you're still gonna put them at risk by putting them in that male bathroom.

SPEAKER_01 55:52

You you definitely are. But I I don't know, like, do you do you feel that you're sat like your community needs to need to police it then in regards to like when someone it needs to be damned when someone does do something, but it does need to be, and I've said this, and I have said this so many times because it's actually making it harder. If if this is the the full achievement that you want to do this and you want equality and that, you have to you have to condemn it and the concerns that people have. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

And this is the thing, it feels like trans people are too scared to speak about it because they're like, oh well, it the conversation can be flipped onto us. And I'm like, not if you sit there and actually listen, because I can understand why women can be scared of trans women. I would be, if I wasn't trans and I was reading the media and I was seeing that trans women were this, that, and the other, and I didn't know a trans person, and maybe you're not sent a trans person, they're gonna have that bias judgment regardless of what you meet, what what you see, do you know what I mean? And that's up to my community to teach people we're not like that, or at least not all of us are like that. You're gonna have people in the community that do take the piss, and to be honest, most of these people that have assaulted women are the ones that have turned round and claim they're trans whilst in court proceedings, like the case in Scotland. Because he, and I will not sit there and call him a she, because in my eyes, no. He only wanted to be a woman the minute he found out, oh, being a woman means I can get into female spaces. Now that, and this is what pisses me off, is because you've got people like that that are calling themselves trans, they're getting added to our statistics. Trans women are all like that. No, they're not.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

I hear that. But how again, I mean, how would you police it? How do you monitor that? How can you because if because remember, if someone says that they are women and you say that they're not, for the most part you get caught trans for a weekend?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

I think in terms of if it's the police and things like that, then I'm sorry, if you committed the crime as a man, you you you're being treated as a man throughout the whole of your trial. You don't get to change that. Halfway through. Halfway through, absolutely not, especially with crimes against women.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

I know, but you could argue that you know I was scared to come out and okay, cool, but you committed the crime as a man.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Nah, I hear that fair. Like, you committed a crime as a man, like respectfully, you'll be treated you were you were committed the crime as a man, and you should be treated as a man at because you were at the time of when you were being convicted and put through the criminal justice system, you're a man at the time you committed the crime, you're being sentenced as a man. Okay, cool. You're now a trans woman, okay then. Right, you say this, okay. Let's get you in front of a psychologist, let's put you through the counselling, let's do this, that, and you're like, It delays the process, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 58:19

That's the thing. Delays the process, but for two years of that though. Because remember, it takes two years.

SPEAKER_00 58:23

Yeah, but they're gonna be yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Before you before you say what prison you get. You understand what I'm trying to say? It's a lot of muddy water there. Like, there's a lot of shit like okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Just put them on a special product custody wing until you work out until like do you know what I mean? But the way I see it is that you can't sit there and decide.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

And I know it's don't you think don't you think the special sorry the special wing is uh be said for like um I say PDFRs online? Yeah are they not at risk from them as well though? But where else should you probably put them? That's my point. So I'm saying to you. I'm saying are they because the I can tell you now they're at risk in like normal prison. Normal prison anyway. They're gonna be at risk regardless of where you so even in I don't know, is that what normally happens? Are they on the special wing?

SPEAKER_00 59:06

Normally it happens because like for me, I've got friends that still work in the prison service. I used to I only worked with children though, so it was a little bit different. But from the the experience that I have from friends who still work in service, nine times out of ten they're put on protective custody because it's safer they're gonna have to, they're gonna have to, because it's for their own protection.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

But that's not a great again, that's not a great look, is it? No, because it looks like they're getting special treatment. Not even that the special, like I mean about if you put on special wing, that's not a great.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

No, you look you look like you either look like a snitch or you look like a you know it's not a good it's not a good look, is it? Nah, so it's just like there's and there's not there's not enough trans people to create trans prison. So what the fuck do you do?

SPEAKER_01 59:45

I I don't have the answer to that. No, no, mate. So I'll leave that with you with you lot then on your on the LGBT side. You got you like I figure that one out because Yeah, 100%. It's it's a bit of a a moddy one. Um well yeah, okay, we'll end it there. Anyway, um, I don't know if you want any social media or anything you want to plug.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

I've just claimed up Demetri's my social media, so okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

He's not signing anything, no? No, okay, not signing nothing. Fair. Um, okay, leave it there. Listen, if you've been watching for almost an hour, I hope you enjoyed the conversation. But make sure you subscribe to the channel and leave a comment if you agree or disagree with anything that we've said today. That's the end of the show, people. Peace.