WEBVTT 00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:15.679 This is our space, this is our time. 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:18.640 LOT Lounge where we always shine. 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:30.320 Hello and welcome to the Lotl Lounge. 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:35.359 I'm Silke, and today we have another full and beautiful show for you. 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:47.359 We start off with an interview I did last week with Tamsin Martin on queer history and the early lesbian involvement in the Australian gay rights movement. 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:56.320 We also have the Tuck Shop ladies coming back, and we have new music with Rachael Sage, followed by the NRLW update with Jo Barrett. 00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:02.320 And later a powerful intergenerational conversation with Joan Nestle and Bridget. 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:03.920 Now let's get started. 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:08.560 LOTL Lounge is completely independent and community driven. 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:16.400 If you enjoy the stories we share and the voices we amplify, you can support us by subscribing and sharing the show. 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:18.560 You can also leave a review. 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:21.200 It really helps us reach more listeners. 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:41.760 Your voice matters. 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:43.760 We would love to feature you. 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:48.480 You can also listen to our curated Spotify or SoundCloud playlist. 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:53.760 It features artists from the show and new music from across our community. 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:04.400 Today on the Lotl Lounge, we are joined by someone who is reshaping how we understand Australian queer past. 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:13.599 Tamsin Martin is a researcher and historian whose work dives deep into the heartbeat of Sydney's gay movement in the 1970s. 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:22.240 And as a lesbian historian committed to uncovering and sharing lesbian stories, she's bringing long overlooked voices back into the spotlight. 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:29.199 Tamsin has just published a new article on Lotl.com about lesbian involvement in Australians' early gay activism. 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:31.280 And today we're going beyond the page. 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:39.919 We're diving into the tensions, the personalities, the surprises, and the moments that didn't make it into the article, but absolutely shaped the movement. 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:42.000 Tamsin, welcome to the Lotl Lounge. 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:42.960 Excited to be here. 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:52.960 In your in your research, were there any groups or activists that actually surprised you that not easily appeared in public records? 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:58.000 Yeah, so like with the Daughters of the Bilbis later renamed the Australasian lesbian movement. 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:08.800 Because they disbanded so quickly, really active for sort of three years, and their scope was, I suppose, relatively small compared to something like Camp, which has a national presence. 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:16.879 That's quite fascinating, fascinating in itself that they disbanded so quickly and they wormed large groups. 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:24.000 Did you find out why they dispersed so quickly and why they didn't grow into a major movement? 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:32.000 There's a bit of an interesting story there where they were almost a bit hesitant towards the pace that activism was moving in the early 70s. 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:37.280 Um they sort of saw it as idealistic to see great change in public attitudes. 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:42.159 And they sort of thought that Australia wasn't a place for world-gattering reform. 00:03:42.159 --> 00:04:01.199 So in a sense, they sort of retreated into themselves and um looked at becoming more of a social group and not really continuing their political activism sort of past about 1972, whereas at the same time you have other groups like Camp who are sort of ramping up their activity. 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:03.680 So in a way they sort of retreated. 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:14.000 Did you think when you were researching this and learned this that gee I wish they would not have and there could have made a massive difference there earlier or something? 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:18.399 I mean, they were the first sort of lesbian political organization in Australia. 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:20.879 It would have been great to see them continue their work. 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:23.279 Some of them were extremely radical, right? 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:27.040 Today we hardly hear about this radical lesbian movement. 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.800 Is there an example, a story that stands out from your research? 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:54.639 Yeah, well, in Australia we sort of had an organization or a sort of political movement known as the radical lesbians, um, or one word, where they were a lesbian separatist organization who was specifically looking at lesbian liberation and sort of working outside of uh mixed homosexual groups because of worries about things like sexism within those groups. 00:04:55.199 --> 00:05:00.720 Lesbians have actually played an important role in the early gay movement. 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:09.759 I wanted to make sure that I included in the camp section that lesbians were involved in the very first public demonstration in support of gay rights in Australia. 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:14.240 So that happens in October 1971, so quite early on in the 1970s. 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:19.519 And you have lesbians outwardly stating their identity at that event. 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:30.079 And it's sort of like, you know, this is pretty early on in this activism, there are lesbians here, and then from that point onwards, there are lesbians here for the rest of the decade of activism. 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:41.759 Like every they're there at every moment, whether they're a big proportion or not is a different question at different times, but there's a continued presence the entire way through, which I think is really, really important to remember. 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:42.800 I agree with you. 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:53.279 And one one last question that just sort of um came to me in regards to the labelling lesbian, what's it always referred to as the lesbian activists? 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:58.800 I think you are more likely to hear lesbian than you were to necessarily hear gays talking about gay men. 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:03.839 Typically, sort of pre-70s, it would be homosexual or camp, like camp man, camp woman. 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:07.199 That would be the more common descriptor in Australia. 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:19.120 Um but you do see a big rise in the use of the term lesbian um as a sort of a reclamation and a stating of an identity that's not, you know, trying to reclaim it from being persecuted. 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:23.360 Then there's also tensions over other labels like butch and dike. 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:40.560 Um, so that's actually a really interesting part of why the Daughters of Belitus renames themselves to the Australasian lesbian movement, is the American, like the US daughters of Lightis, wore pro protesters for wearing t-shirts proclaiming Butch and Dyke on them, which the Australian members saw as bad publicity. 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.600 So they instead decided to label themselves as lesbians. 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:44.959 Roughly when was that? 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:46.399 Uh mid-70s? 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:49.040 Uh so that was 1970, so that was really quite early. 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:56.160 They were the Daughters of Blightis for about a year and a half, and then they renamed themselves the Australasian lesbian movement and were active for another two years. 00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:02.319 Maybe around ten years later, the claim of the word dyke and butch came to Australia. 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:09.600 Looking back at Lottl and the term t terminology that's been used over the 35 years when Lottel was reporting. 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:14.879 There was certainly, you know, those those labels were claimed proudly. 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:20.560 Butcher identities um really sort of rose in Australia in the lesbian bar scene in the 50s. 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:25.839 So you would have people proclaiming a butcher identity from around the sort of 50s onwards. 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.720 Um you would have butcher and femme or butch and beach dynamics. 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:32.399 That was sort of the labeling um that was used then. 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:44.319 Then of coming into the 1970s, like prior to this, but coming into the 1970s, there were a fair few critiques in lesbian, lesbian feminist, and feminist spaces about those butch and femme dynamics. 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:47.360 There was a lot of controversy around the labelling of Butch. 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:52.399 So some people would be using it negatively, some people would be um like reclaiming it. 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:58.160 It would be very interesting new research for you to do about the dynamics of butch and femme. 00:07:58.160 --> 00:07:59.759 Yeah, absolutely. 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:00.879 I think that would be awesome. 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:04.319 Well, Temson, thank you so much for joining us today on the Lotl Lounge. 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:14.000 This was really interesting, and I appreciate your passion and interest in in putting this story together and submitting it to Lotl for the audience to read. 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:15.759 So thank you so much for joining us. 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:16.720 Yeah, of course. 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.199 Thank you for sort of continuing this platform going. 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:22.399 It's really exciting to be able to write history again. 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:32.720 We have so much lesbian history that needs to be taken care of and uh reported on, and that is exactly what we are committed of doing. 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:34.240 Yeah, that that's really great. 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:36.879 I'm really glad it's it's around for that purpose. 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:43.600 Thank you, Tamson, for sharing your research and your work with the Lottl Lounge and with Lottl.com. 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:51.200 Really interesting to understand the foundation of the early activism in Australia. 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:54.799 Make sure you check out the full article on Lottl.com. 00:08:58.240 --> 00:08:59.360 Oh, g'day. 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:01.279 It's Tuck Shop Ladies in the House here. 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:02.080 The house. 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:03.039 I'm Sam Lowe. 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:04.399 And I'm Rosie Burgess. 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:07.120 And uh we're just here on grandma's couches. 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:12.960 I know, we just used to we used to sit on grandma's whole big couch. 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:13.360 Yes. 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:18.240 And now we have minimalized and we're sitting on uh two little armchairs. 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:23.200 Yeah, they're like well, you wouldn't say they're little, they're like big grand armchairs. 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:25.279 Oh yeah, they are grand indeed. 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:26.559 They are the grandest. 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:33.279 I feel like I'm sort of like, you know, a queen holding court sitting in this giant armchair. 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:35.440 Yeah, it's a game of thrones kind of situation. 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:36.080 It really is. 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:37.519 You actually look like Khaleesi. 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:39.919 I don't know who that is, but she's the hot one. 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:41.039 Oh I'll take it. 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:42.320 She's hot as. 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:42.720 Really? 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:44.720 Oh, every every lesbian's dream. 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:45.440 Really? 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:45.919 Yes. 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:46.320 Really? 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:47.120 Khile. 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:48.559 A Khelsea, I'll take it. 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:51.759 Well, you don't even need to watch the show, just go and look at yourself in the mirror. 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:54.159 Done, done. 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:55.840 What's the Khaleesi you could do? 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.200 What's so great about Khaleesi? 00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:58.240 Is she like smart? 00:09:58.240 --> 00:09:59.200 Is she sporty? 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:00.559 She is cool. 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:01.919 She's smart. 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:02.480 She can't be able to do it. 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:07.759 She's very sporty because she um she rides dragons and trains dragons. 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:11.679 Uh that is a sport that we don't see as much of these days. 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:17.039 Look, I wouldn't say it's something that um, you know, kids are asking to do these days. 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:18.960 So, you know, do I do baseball? 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:21.360 Do I do football or shall I train dragons? 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:22.720 Shall I do some dragoning? 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:27.039 I mean, you know, I reckon I that's probably a sport I could have gotten into. 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:32.320 Like, so I always feel like a bit of a bad lesbian because I never was into sports. 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:33.039 Yes. 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:37.600 And you are, I wouldn't say you are the least sporty per person I've ever met. 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:38.879 It's true. 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:41.519 And yet you still have cracks at different things. 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:42.480 Like you love running. 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:42.879 Yes. 00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:45.600 So that's a good I think a lot of lesbians love running. 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:46.000 Yeah. 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:51.039 Thing is, I don't think you'd classify like what I do as lesbian sporty. 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:53.759 It's more like I'm just really active. 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:57.279 Yeah, so an older active woman. 00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:58.879 Would you say? 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:00.799 Do we have to say older active woman? 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.360 Can we not just say Okay, oh sorry, I'm so sorry. 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:06.799 The oldest active active woman I know. 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:10.720 Yeah, active lesbian, that's probably a thing. 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:15.519 In fact, there's probably clothes that go with active lesbian, don't you think? 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:16.559 Like active wear. 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:18.720 Yeah, like if you think about the Spice Girls, right? 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.320 They had like sporty spice and she had particular clothes. 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:25.440 And they had baby spice who had particular clothes. 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.519 Why wasn't she wearing baby clothes? 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:30.320 Well, she sort of had her hair in like little pigtail-y things. 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.919 But sh if she was baby spice, she should have been wearing a nappy. 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:34.639 Yeah, absolutely. 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:35.360 Dummy. 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:35.759 Yeah. 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:40.080 And in just constantly being wheeled around in one of those like portable cots. 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:40.559 Right. 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:44.399 I think they were going they were upping the like sort of more like the baby of the family. 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:45.120 Yes, okay. 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:46.399 And then posh spice. 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:46.720 Yes. 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:54.559 In fact, do you think these were all supposed to be, they were all supposed to be kind of like um hat tips at different kinds of lesbians, like lipstick lesbians. 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:56.879 But then when does that ginger? 00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:58.480 She's it's a bit of a ginger lesbians. 00:11:58.480 --> 00:11:59.440 It's like pot. 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:02.080 Yeah, it's a bit posh, sporty. 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:04.559 Um, I don't know what to call this one. 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:05.440 She's got red hair. 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:07.279 Ginger lesbian. 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:08.879 I would have been ginger spice. 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:10.799 Oh, it kind of makes sense. 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:13.919 Ginger spice, like ginger is a type of spice. 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:16.000 Doesn't make sense as a lesbian category. 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:17.360 I know, but can you imagine? 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:18.720 Pook sporty. 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:21.519 Um posh uh baby. 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:24.080 Baby, and then dreameric. 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:27.200 Coriander lesbian. 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:28.879 Coriander spice. 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:37.759 But you were like a you've always been you know what's so funny is like I've probably been a lesbian since birth, right? 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:40.159 Um I grew into my lesbianism. 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:44.320 I feel like even when I met you, you were sort of like on the fence. 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:46.559 You were on the fence about whether or not you were a lesbian. 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:49.039 And I was like, you are the gayest person I've ever met. 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:50.480 Only because of sport. 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:56.559 Sport and like the way you were the building stuff, gardening. 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:58.639 You were vegetarian at that point. 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:00.159 You were a folk singer. 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:05.759 You were basically pin-up like the Tracy Chapman of the lesbian world. 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:07.759 Right? 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:12.960 Like you were pin-up lesbian, and you were walking around blissfully unaware of it. 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:18.000 And it took me to go and point a finger at you and laugh and say, You're so gay. 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.480 I don't think I've ever met anyone as gay as you. 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:26.399 And the funny thing is that even when we were playing we just started playing music together, you and I. 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:30.159 I remember the time that I felt like, oh my god, I'm a lesbian. 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:30.960 When was that? 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.679 It was like watching you on stage. 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:34.000 Yeah. 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:35.120 I was on stage with you. 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:35.440 Right. 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:42.639 That's it was a like hot night at a festival and I looked over at you and you're all sweaty for it was such a great night. 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:47.759 It was all like hot and sweaty and looked over at you, and I was like See, that's you love things to be sweaty. 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:48.240 I know. 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:50.480 In yeah, that's the only time it's good. 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:52.639 Is what at night time? 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.159 Yeah, uh at a festival or something like that. 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.399 Like just see, I'm not such a fan of it. 00:13:58.399 --> 00:13:59.440 Sweating? 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:01.039 Yeah, I do a lot of it. 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:10.000 I could be I could be like all those things you said, hot, night, festival, tick, tick, tick, sweaty, I could I could live without that bit. 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:14.639 And so you looked at me, and what made you go, oh, I'm a lesbian rather than I just oh I love Rosie. 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:18.399 It was a feeling of both things of like, oh, okay. 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:20.720 You've been fighting this for so long, Sam. 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:22.399 Yeah, why were you fighting it? 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:24.960 Oh, I don't think I was actually actively fighting it. 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.360 I just always thought that I was bi. 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:28.080 Right. 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:29.919 And I it's weird. 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:32.159 Do you think if we broke up you'd go back to being bi? 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:33.120 You want to try? 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:33.759 See what happens. 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:35.039 Yeah, because I'd go, bye. 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:43.519 No, I Do you want me to let you off the hook for a bit so you can see whether or not you're what your sexuality truly is? 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:47.840 The thing is, the softness of a lip of a lady. 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:49.600 A lady But only you. 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:49.919 Right. 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.159 So I don't know if I'm lesbian. 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:54.399 Or by I'm not sure. 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:54.879 Yeah. 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:56.559 I'm Sam and I love you. 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.840 And Cerese from Cerese. 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:00.960 What did you say her name in? 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:01.600 Khaleesi. 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:02.639 Khelsey. 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:03.360 Yeah. 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:10.080 So really our lives have been quite mixed up because I've known I was a lesbian since I was like, could breathe. 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:11.519 Since you came out? 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:13.919 Yeah, since I became aware of women. 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.320 I remember You came out singing close to the phone. 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.519 My mum's like, what's this? 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:30.559 I remember my gran once saying to my auntie, this is when I came out officially to the family, and my family weren't super stoked about the whole thing. 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:37.440 And my grand my grandmother said to my auntie, everybody gets crushes on other girls. 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.039 It doesn't make you a lesbian. 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:45.120 And my auntie very diplomatically saying to my gran, Do they though? 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:45.759 Yes. 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.360 Oh, that's so funny. 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:48.000 Yeah. 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:54.879 So um Yeah, my mum's best friend said, Oh, when when I came out, she was like, Relax, Caroline. 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:55.679 It's one in ten. 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:56.720 One in ten. 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:58.639 I don't know where she got those stats from. 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:00.080 Well, but they are the stats. 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:00.879 They were the stats. 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:02.080 I don't know if they're still the stats. 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:10.559 But yeah, so there was me, like, basically um, you know, uh hacksawing my way out of the womb and then patching it up behind me. 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.000 With some spatula. 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:16.159 Um no, I've never been handy at anything. 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:18.080 Like, I'm not the fix-it person. 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:19.679 I'm not body. 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:21.039 Yes, I would say so. 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:25.759 I'm none of the traditional things ex the only I'd Folk singer. 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:27.120 A folksinger, yeah. 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.120 I have been a folk and a vegetarian. 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:29.519 Yep. 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:29.840 Yeah. 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:34.559 And very did immediately go the dikey haircut as soon as I could just shaved off all my hair. 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:34.879 Yeah. 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:36.080 I need a Franco. 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.879 Yeah, I guess that's probably what I was going for. 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:40.960 But um But nothing else. 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:42.240 But nothing else, yeah. 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:47.600 Like I feel, you know, and and these days, yeah, the the sporty stuff it's just way more like active. 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:56.080 But I just wonder whether or not um, you know, that's kind of a new brand of lesbian, is just like active les. 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:57.440 Yeah. 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:00.000 Well maybe so. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.480 And maybe there's a lost opportunity for us. 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.400 We should start the active wearing. 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:06.480 I think we'd see a whole bunch more categories. 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:14.400 Like I also think maybe But what would your active wear look like if you were like going for an active like if you're going for stretchy cargo pants? 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:15.039 Oh, yeah. 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:16.160 With lots of pockets. 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:17.359 Yeah, with lots of pockets. 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:22.319 Because the thing about cargo pants is they seem that like I've tried them on and it's like there's no give. 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:23.119 There's no give. 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.359 I need things to be able to move around down there. 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:30.000 Especially if you're like trying to hide in the forest and be active at the same time. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.359 Why are we hiding in the forest? 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:32.400 Because of the camo. 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:33.279 Oh. 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:37.759 I was more thinking about um cargo rather than camo. 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:39.680 Oh, I'm picturing camo for some reason. 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.519 Camo cargo, whole nother thing. 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:43.039 That's like Camo cargo. 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:44.160 Camo cargo. 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:50.480 Camo cargo lesbian is yeah, your kind of um bear grills adventuring lesbian. 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:51.359 Yes, yes. 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:55.440 I think there also should be I just think yeah, we're we we're low on categories. 00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:01.440 We've basically got like like lipstick lesbian and what else have we got? 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:02.960 Um butch dike. 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:07.200 But we we you know, what about all of the lesbians like me and Camo cargo? 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.440 So we should have Camo Cargo lesbian. 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:09.680 Yes. 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.920 We should have um active lesbian, we should have nerd lesbian. 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.440 Oh yes, right you are. 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:17.359 Yeah, like this would be f for me. 00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:18.000 Absolutely. 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:25.200 All of the lesbians who want to play Magic the Gathering and talk about um science fiction books. 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.440 Oh, there's a good four and a half hours you never get back. 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:30.799 Four and a half hours. 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:32.559 I feel we could go for longer than that. 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:34.640 What would your categories be? 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:45.680 Um Well there, I mean, you're very traditionally This is why it's so hilarious I didn't know you were a lesbian, because you're so traditionally lesbian. 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.920 I like having a go at fixing things for sure. 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:52.240 I don't wouldn't say I'm good at it, but I I do I definitely am like, oh yeah, I'll have a go at that. 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:52.559 Yeah. 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:57.359 Like I'm today I'll be doing, I'll be fixing up your patching thing that you you fixed. 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.319 I was supposed to fix that and I gave it a red hot go. 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.160 Yeah, I'm a I'm I'm a go behind the other lesbian. 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:08.000 I'm that that partner that goes behind and fixes all the patches and stuff. 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.960 When you you you'll do something and you'll go pr pr pr what's all those holes? 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.720 Oh, I thought you could fix those up. 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:15.519 Yeah. 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:16.079 Uh-huh. 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.559 Uh and you are also so sporty. 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:26.000 And in what feels like a great relationship betrayal to me, you love to watch sports. 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.039 Love it. 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:27.440 Yeah. 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:33.440 And see, when we first got together, you kept that kind of up your sleeve, didn't you? 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.279 You weren't well, there was that time when you became really into the World Cup. 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:39.519 Well, that's when the World Cup was on. 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:40.319 Yeah. 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:44.000 You don't you only get into it every four years, but you wouldn't know that. 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.400 Oh, is that is that right? 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.160 Because I thought, do you know what I actually thought? 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:50.000 I didn't know it was on only every four years. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:50.319 Right. 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:51.839 And I just thought it was all the time. 00:19:51.839 --> 00:20:10.559 You were having like a weird wonky moment where because your dad had just died and he'd been really into the soccer, and you were having this like kind of um resurgence of just like emotional attachment to the soccer, kind of nostalgic experience of watching soccer, and then we never watched it again. 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:12.640 So I'm like, four years. 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:13.359 Yeah. 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:17.119 So I didn't I was I was like, ah, thank God that's done. 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.279 She's not really into watching sports. 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:22.079 But do all lesbians like watching sports? 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:23.599 I don't know if that's the case. 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:29.039 No, I think that's what we're saying is that that it needs to the categories need to broaden out a bit. 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:31.039 Alright, let's let's broaden out those categories. 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:33.519 Because certainly I don't like watching sports. 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:36.319 Yeah, well, we've got so much to do this week. 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:38.480 We've just got to broaden out those categories. 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:38.960 Right. 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:43.920 Okay, so we'll just get working on you know what categories there should be. 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:50.240 Anyway, maybe people, if you're listening to this, you could feel free to like message us and let us know what categories you think there should be. 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:57.440 While we're opening up like for the next few like weeks, while there's an open window for creating new categories of lesbians. 00:20:57.440 --> 00:20:57.839 Yeah. 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:00.880 And there's probably slots for f a hundred. 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:02.640 We could have a hundred categories. 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:02.960 Yeah. 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:04.160 Yeah, it's a lot to remember. 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:05.279 Should we start with fifty? 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.160 Let's start with twenty. 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:07.440 How about we start with two? 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:08.319 Twenty-five. 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.480 Twenty-five new categories go. 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:41.440 With a heart as a good sunfire. 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:57.519 I will be I will be strong. 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:06.559 Okay. 00:22:06.559 --> 00:23:17.680 When it's love somewhere. 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.039 Some child. 00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:24.480 I will be long. 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:29.759 With the gossips. 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:33.680 With the bell on the spy. 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.200 I will be strong. 00:23:37.200 --> 00:24:11.279 With a crab strong. 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:14.799 As a weatherman skate. 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:23.119 I will be with a sword. 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:28.000 For a prayer shot of prayer. 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.160 I will hold you. 00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:38.240 I will be strong for you. 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:42.880 I will be alone. 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:56.160 That was belonged to you by Rachel Sage. 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:02.640 Rachel and the band sequence have released a new AP called Nexus Acoustic. 00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:12.960 It's a tribute to non binary teen Nex Benedict, and it's also a reflection on resilience, community, and queer solidarity. 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:17.920 Many of the Australian listeners may be discovering Rachel Sage for the first time. 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:25.039 She's a New York-based folk and pop artist and is a six-time independent music award winner. 00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:30.799 She's also a longtime advocate for the LGBTQ plus rights and youth safety. 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:36.640 Her forthcoming album, Under My Canopy, continues her journey of blending activism with art. 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:40.319 Rachel recorded her answers for us remotely from New York. 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:44.160 You can read the full conversation on Laudel.com, but here's a short excerpt. 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:53.599 For listeners in Australia who may be discovering you for the first time, how would you describe the heart of your music and what drives you creatively? 00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:03.200 Firstly, I have always wanted to go to Australia, and it's an honor to be on this program and connecting with new listeners, so thank you for that. 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:08.960 I would describe my music as chamber folk pop in terms of sound. 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:21.920 It features my own piano and guitar playing, complemented by strings including cello and violin, as well as roots instrumentation like harmonica, percussion, and slide guitar. 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:32.720 Lyrically, my words tend to tell stories about overcoming adversity in some way, or opening a portal into some kind of emotional understanding. 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:47.920 I've been told that I'm a very poetic lyricist, and it's true I'm driven creatively by a desire to balance beauty, uplift, and encouragement with casting light on substantive challenges we face in our society. 00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:59.680 Naturally, I'm an optimist, but I'm also not afraid to open up a wound in a creative context if it allows for an opportunity to examine our humanity and to heal. 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.279 Next up, League from the Lounge with Joe Barrett. 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:06.559 Hi everyone, and welcome to League from the Lounge. 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:10.079 I'm Joe Barrett, and this is your NRLW rap. 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:17.599 Well, since the last episode, we've had rounds four and five of the NRLW competition, which means we're almost at the halfway point of the season. 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.759 And it feels like we're finally starting to get a really clear picture of this competition. 00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:29.039