LOTL Lounge
LOTL Media is the evolution of 35 years of lesbian publishing into a modern platform for women who shape the world.
Our flagship series, The LOTL Lounge, anchors this new chapter - a space for bold, intimate queer storytelling.
Queer Conversation is our one‑on‑one interview series, where we sit down with thinkers, creators, community builders, survivors, and system‑changers whose lives and work move culture forward.
Our lens is queer, our focus is impact.
We highlight women who live authentically, challenge norms, and drive social, political, and cultural change.
New conversations regularly.
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LOTL Lounge
LOTL Lounge S8E5: Queer Myths, a Lesbian Generation and Bold Visibility
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Welcome to episode 5 of LOTL Lounge, your fortnightly home for lesbian and queer stories, culture, music, and the voices shaping our world. Hosted by Silke, this bumper episode celebrates bold storytelling, visibility, and the creative power of our LGBTQIA+ community.
Episode Highlights
In-Depth Chat: Zoe Terakis – Queer Myths & Greek Heritage
We sit down with acclaimed actor and writer Zoe Terakis, known for Max in Wentworth, Talk to Me, and Marvel’s Ironheart. Zoe opens up about their creative journey post-Wentworth, their transmasculine Greek-Australian identity, and why they reimagined Greek myths through a queer and trans lens in their new book, Eros: Queer Myths for Lovers.
- Topics include:
- Creative frustration and the power in writing your own stories 04:04
- What ancient myths really tell us about gender and queer desire 05:02
- The moving, rarely-told story of Iphis & Ianthe and why reclaiming queer myths matters 06:11
- Navigating masculinity, inside and out; building pride in unique bodies and experiences 09:29
- Bonus: Zoe reads a steamier extract from their debut book, exploring intimacy, pleasure, and the beauty of queer embodiment 12:56
Read the article and listen to the BONUS EPISODE (full unedited version of our interview) on lotl.com
Flicks on the Lounge: Mandahla Rose in LA
In our new partnership with Lesflicks, we hear from actor Mandahla Rose about her decade-long career across Australia and LA.
Mandala shares:
- Her breakout Australian roles and transition to the LA queer film scene 22:19
- The reality of working behind the camera, surviving industry slow-down, and making art that heals 26:11
- Dream roles, homesickness, queer joy, and where to find her art (including on Instagram and soon Etsy!)
- Hope and how small acts - music, butterflies, and the Aussie bottlebrush- keep her going 29:37
Read the article and listen to the BONUS EPISODE (full unedited version of our interview) on lotl.com
Music Spotlight
- Danni Nicholls | The Pendulum – Anthemic new album, Making Moves, about growth and resilience 17:13
- Asha Jeffries | "Cool Guy" – Catchy, honest single from her incoming album Desire Is an Angel 47:30
Find both artists on the LOTL Lounge playlist via Spotify & SoundCloud -support queer musicians with every play.
Drag King Corner with Nash
Nash dives into the evolving artistry of drag kings, masculinity on stage, and queer performance culture. Learn how drag kings are expanding gender expression, and why the Drag King book is a must-read 18:05.
Read Nash’s reflections in her regular blog "The Drag King Corner"
Lesbian Leap from the Archives: Exhibition Preview
Curator Sarah Yeomans discusses the upcoming landmark exhibit, Lesbian Leap from the Archives: 1970–2000 47:54.
- Why those decades were the "peak" of lesbian life in Australia
- Artefacts, wild badges, and T-shirts- plus spotlight sections on women’s lands, activism, and stories that shaped our community
- The bittersweet power of looking back, and hopes for today’s queer and lesbian generations
The show launches International Lesbian Day at Soul Gallery, Fitzroy
Read the article and listen to the BONUS EPISODE (full unedited version of our interview) on lotl.com
Community Connections
- The Tuckshop Ladies deliver their signature hilarity, including cheeky tips for "new lesbians" - think Subaru drivers, Birkenstocks, and Crocs! 30:49
- League on the Lounge: Jo Barrett dives into the latest NRLW action, spotlighting the Tigers’ stunning rise from back-to-back wooden spoons to top 6 contenders, thanks to key recruits and resilient leadership. 42:10
- Flicks on the Lounge explores lesbian onscreen representation, and the joys and heartbreaks of the queer creative grind.
- Lesbian Antiques Roadshow, poetry slams, and community news round out a jam-packed episode.
Out and Proud in Sport: Nikki Ayers, OAM, PLY
Paralympian gold medalist, nurse, midwife, and proud gay woman Nikki Ayers shares with Karen Bryan:
- Her journey from rugby player, through life-changing injury, to rowing champion 01:11:13
- The sanctuary of queer sport and the courage to claim public pride 01:18:13
- Standing up for visibility at the world stage, and the healing found in owning your scars 01:21:13
- Why she believes being herself is her greatest victory and is ready for new challenges ahead
Read the article and listen to the BONUS EPISODE (full unedited version of our interview) on lotl.com
Support Queer Stories
LOTL Lounge is - and always will be - free.
In October, we’re launching an optional membership that includes a legacy tier for longtime supporters. Help amplify queer voices and keep community media alive - details coming soon.
Stay Connected
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LOTL Lounge: This is our space. Our stories. Our time. Thanks for making the lounge shine
Check out more content on www.lotl.com
Welcome To The Lotl Lounge
SPEAKER_10This is our space, this is our time. Hello to the lounge where we always die.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to The Lot Lounge, your fortnightly home for lesbians and queer stories, culture, music, sport, and the voices shaping our world. I'm your host Silke, and episode 5 is Packed, Truly Packed. We start off with a powerful conversation with writer and actor Zoe Terakis, which some of you might know as Max from Wentworth, or the show Talk to Me and Marvel's Einhart. Zoe has just released their debut book, Hero's Queer Moods for Lovers. And Zoe will also share a reading from the book right after our interview. Then we introduce our brand new segment, Flicks on the Lounge, in collaboration with UK-based Les Flicks, featuring the interview with Mandahala Rose in LA. And then our favourite The Tuck Shop Ladies, Nash from the Tracking Corner, and Joe Barrett with the NILW update. And join us as we sit down with Sarah to explore Lesbian Leap from the Archives 1970s to 2000, a landmark exhibition celebrating three decades of lesbian life, culture, and activism in Australia, launching this October on International Lesbian Day. And we finish off with Karen Bryant, who speaks with Paralympian Nikki Aries about being proudly out in elite sport. And of course, we have music, this time from queer artists Danny Nichols and Asher Jeffries. And as always, you can support queer musicians by following our playlist on Spotify and SoundCloud. Every stream helps amplify queer artists. And before we dive in, a quick note Lotal Lounge will always remain free to enjoy. But in October we are introducing a membership tire, including a legacy member option. If you love what we do and want to help us grow, why not support the lounge with a membership? More on that soon. And today I'm joined by someone most of you will instantly recognize. Zoe Terrakis, who played Max on Wentworth, a role that made him one of the most exciting queer performers in Australia. Zoe has since appeared in Nine Perfect Strangers, Talk To Me, and even stepped into the Marvel universe. But today we are meeting them in a completely different creative space. Zoe is a proud trans masculine Greek Australian storyteller and have just released her debut book Eros Queer Myths for Lovers, a stunning sensual reimagined of ancient Greek myths through queer and trans bodies. And one of the stories in the book is Ethos. We are going to talk about acting, heritage, myth, gender, and the emotional heart of this beautiful new
Zoe Terakes On Myths And Manhood
SPEAKER_01work. Welcome, Zoe. Really excited to have you here. Zoe, you are known to our audience as an actor, Max from Wentworth and a few other shows. You have just written Eros queer myth for lovers. Love the title, love the concept. Personally, I'm a big fan of Greek mythology. I think there is so much more to learn. The myths of Iphis and Lanthen, that's what your book is based on. But one step back, what happened after Wentworth?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, so Wentworth happened and it was amazing, obviously.
SPEAKER_12Then I did a show with Bank of Exchangers, and then I went over to the States and I did a Marvel show called Iron Heart, which is amazing and so much fun. Yeah, and then I came back to Sydney, I had top surgery and life was feeling really full and beautiful. But I just I don't know, it's like acting such a weird art form because more often than not you have to wait for somebody to let you do it. It's not like painting, where if you're a painter, you just wake up in the morning and go paint. Whereas acting you can only do what you're given, right? And I've been very fortunate to have worked so much and been a part of such amazing shows. But I think I just feel a little maybe creatively frustrated or something.
SPEAKER_01Your book was based on Greek mythology. And Greek mythology is so easy to get into. At any age, really, you have a Greek heritage, you are from Crete or places that is full of Greek mythology. Every corner on Crete has some story to tell. And once you start diving into Greek mythology, it's just wilder and wilder. In Greek mythology, there's a lot of gender-bending stories. You want to show people that there was another side.
SPEAKER_12I think people like really westernize Greek mythology and to the point that now we have people like Trump and Musk referring to Greek myth as something that they really uphold and see themselves in. And I'm like, you have nothing the fuck to do with my culture's mythology. And if you knew how much gay sex was going on in ancient Greek and Greek myth, I don't think you'd be claiming it as hard as you are. These myths are so queer and so trans. Not all of them, obviously, but a bunch of them are.
SPEAKER_01Even like the top dog like Zeus, he changed himself into a woman, a man, whatever he felt like to have sex with, whoever he felt like having sex with. In your book, Eros Queer Myths for Lovers, which we listen to an extract that you read for us after the show.
SPEAKER_13Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You are particularly focused on one myth. Iphus and Ianthi, if I pronounce that right, I'm not sure. Would you mind telling the listeners the story behind this? I actually did not know that particular myth.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, so the book is it follows five myths. It's five short stories. There's Iphus and Ianthy, then we go to Icarus and Apollo, then Orpheus and Eurydice, then Artemis and Callisto, and then Hemaphrodis. It's broken up into five short stories. But the first myth is If it's an Ianty. And yeah, it's a lesser known myth. Basically, all of the stories are from Ovid's Metamorphosy. And this is his myth takes up half a page of Ovid's Metamorphosis. Very short, and his telling of it is quite brutal and full of shame. But it is basically at its core when he stripped his voice out of it. The story is of this child who's born in Crete. The child's father says to the mother when she's pregnant, if this child is born a woman or a girl, you we have to kill it. We can't afford it. A girl. It can only be a boy. And so the mum is obviously terrified. When she gives birth, while she's giving birth, the Egyptian goddess Isis travels across the sea and comes to her bedside and says, Raise this child a boy. No matter what gender it comes out, raise this child a boy. I will protect it. Signed female child, a child with a vagina comes comes out from the mother's hips, and the mother then raises this child, Iphis, as a boy. And this is all well and good until Iphus meets Ianti. And they fall wildly in love from when they're like teenagers. And in the original myth, they have to tell Ayanthi on their wedding day that he doesn't have a penis and blah blah blah, which I just think that's crock shit. What I think actually happened is that Cretan weddings, ancient Cretan weddings, were naked. They were performed naked. And so this trans boy's secret would be out to the village essentially. And so they go and they pray at the temple of Isis because this young boy would be potentially being very much shamed and potentially worse. Ancient Greece. And even though it's progressive in some ways, they also threw babies off balcony. Isis comes and as they walk out of the temple, If his gates widen and his shoulders broadened, and his voice deepened. And essentially, the goddess grants If it's his manhood, and then they get married.
SPEAKER_01It's a mist with a heavy ending.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. It is. It's one of the very few.
SPEAKER_01How did you take this story into your book? As I said, Ovid telling Obbit is pretty horrific when you read it.
SPEAKER_12Now he talks about he gives if it's this voice that's so laden with shame and talks about how if it's saying a girl on time for another girl, it would be better than a rubber cow. Incest would be better than this, essentially. And I just think that's a whole lot of Ovid's opinion and not actually what the story is asking for. And so my job is just really stripping out his voice and replacing it with mine. Really? So it is a story where of course shame and violence are a part of this world, but also immense joy and pleasure and discovery in this trans body that ultimately meets magic, meets the gods.
SPEAKER_01But I was really intrigued when you were saying that you love your insight compared to other men. Can you share a little bit more about this thought of it?
SPEAKER_12And it's just something I feel personally. I think there's this whole narrative I'll speak for myself. Like I see that cis men are like, oh, these fucking trans guys, they just want to be us. But it's oh, that couldn't be further from the truth. I actually I'm not in pursuit of cis manhood. That doesn't mean there there aren't parts of it that I envy. Like I envy, particularly before I medically transitioned, I envy like a bare chest and the depth of the voice, and I envy what comes so easily to cis men. But I don't envy their insides. And I think that's where this excerpt comes from. Is like I actually feel so blessed to have lived life for 17 years as a woman, really, and socialized as a woman, and then to have come into this body means there's this kind of incredible harmony. I experience the world in multiple genders in a day where in one morning I'll be called she or man by a dorista, and then that night, if I at a restaurant, I'll be called Sir. It's like this kind of incredible rare experience of I don't know, sitting in multiple gender spaces at once. Really, and that being learning to find that a beautiful thing, I suppose.
SPEAKER_01Your Greek background, being from Crete, the interest in Greek mythology and approaching it from a gender perspective like this is been definitely different. And I think any readers who love Greek mythology or would love to get to know a little bit about Greek mythology, but beware, once you start looking into it, you won't stop because it's like it's I know, it's it goes on forever, those stories, and it's amazing. But no, I think you've done really well. So we thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_12We
A Reading From Eros Queer Myths
SPEAKER_12met in our forest every afternoon after my lessons, or after I'd finished helping dad in the field. All we did was fuck and talk. Sometimes I'd catch her some heather bothy or bomby and we'd make a fire. I'd gut the fish and clean the octopus, pull out its beak and ink sack. Ayanthe took great delight in busting the ink sack all over her hands and painting portraits of me on the tree trunks. After drenching everything in olive oil, we'd squeeze a couple of mum's lemons over the catch and cook it on the fire. Fresh seafood with Aunthe always tasted like my two favorite things swimming and sex. We sucked the salty lemon oil off each other's fingers and inevitably devoured each other. Our sex still held the wilderness of play we'd found as kids. Ayanty was embarrassed by nothing. If there was pleasure to be found, she was up for it. I once found her in the grass, naked, face down, back arched, waiting for me. I pressed my fingers into her cunt. She was drooping wet. I've been waiting for your cock for hours, baby. She'd moan as I fucked her harder. That wolf who'd pounced on me all those years ago, still howling. There was pleasure in our saying this. It was a strange feeling. Knowing myself so acutely as a man, and yet still finding myself aroused by the fact that I wasn't one entirely. I wanted to cut my tits off with a knife. I needed a cock like I needed air. I wanted the hair and the stench and the muscle, but I did not want the insides of a man. I liked my insides better. They made me a better lover, a better son. I knew I was more beautiful inside than the men I worked with in the field, than the boys I took lessons with, than my uncles, and my cousins, and my father. I envied the way the sunlight beat down on their bare, defined chests. I envied the depth and the gravel in their voices after a hard day of labor or a long night of drinking. But I did not envy what was inside them. Something angry and careless lurked within them. A cruelty that came too quick to their mouths and their hands. I watched them miss the intuition of living and mock the detail of loving. One afternoon I walked to meet Ayanthi, carrying fresh sea bream and speared only moments before. I found her sitting on the grass with a large slab of wood from an oak tree. She handed me a knife, a razor sharp iron with an obsidian base in the shape of a scarab beetle. I saw this. She stared up at me. I want you to carve me your cock.
SPEAKER_01Zoe Teraki's new book, Eros Queer Myths for Lovers, is available now, and if today's conversation has sparked something in you, trust me, the full collection is even richer, more tender and more daring. It's a beautiful reclaiming of myths of heritage, of queer desire and of trans embodiment.
SPEAKER_03Have been keeping secrets from myself whispering through my mind in the shape of you in the shape of Trippin' over the in the shape of you.
SPEAKER_01You will find Danny on our Lotl Lounge playlist on Spotify and SoundCloud.
Drag Kings And Owning Masculinity
SPEAKER_01And now it's time for the trade King Corner. Nash is back with a preview of what she's written for Lottl this week, from community stories to performance culture and everything in between. Nash, your latest blog that you submitted, Masculinity and a King Draft. Tell the audience a little bit what I can expect and what made you write it, write that topic.
SPEAKER_13This is a really interesting topic, and I think it really goes to the core of what a drag king is and what the artistry is all about. I was very fortunate as a very young Dykelling was introduced to Drag King via Judas Havistom and Judas Butler's uh Clear Ideology and the Drag King book. So I actually saw those uh elements before I actually even saw a live Drag King performance. So it's really close to my heart.
SPEAKER_01When I saw the title, the first thing that I thought is Drag King by default is masculine. Why even bring this up? But you just mentioned there is more behind it than the visual. Like you mentioned the book, the Drag King book, which I don't know of.
SPEAKER_13Oh, the the Drag King book uh is phenomenal because it came out in I believe the late 90s.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_13Uh so it's been around for a while and it touches on uh the New York drag scene, which uh was really fundamental in bringing the drag scene uh to the community at large across the world. I've actually got to meet the author once. I have a signed personal copy, like it it is it is brilliant.
SPEAKER_01What do you think about your blog that you submitted? What people who don't know much about drag kings but just enjoy their performance, what do you hope for them to get out of it?
SPEAKER_13It's a way for the audience to peel back a layer of what they're seeing, you know, because drag isn't just about glitz and glamour and and and that kind of thing. It's about subverting who owns masculinity.
SPEAKER_01Do you think that the drag king culture has changed on that aspect of uh masculinity? Why I'm asking is uh I find drag queens, which you see more often than drag kings, they have changed a great deal. Like today, uh you could go out and watch a drag queen show, and the drag queen show could have like a topless man with their hairy chest as an example, right? While before, 20 years ago, they always had like big vague boobs and like they would never expose part of their own body. So I really saw a massive change over the last 20 years with the drag queens. Now uh masculinity and trag king go so close together. Do you think there is uh has been a change as well, or has that been even become has it become more masculine?
SPEAKER_13Oh no. Drag Kings have expanded their interpretation of masculinity on stage and off stage. The if we go back to my first uh blog, the whole dismantling of the gender binary system has really translated onto stage. Like even with Drag Kings 20 years ago, when I first started, it was a different feel. It was a it was a different texture on stage. Now you just see every kind of gender and masculinity expression seen on stage, and it's a glorious thing.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. Well, thank you, Nash, for your time. And I just urge everyone to hop on lottl.com to look out for the tracking corner written by Nash Hill.
SPEAKER_13Thank you so much, Silka.
Mandahla Rose On Queer Film Life
SPEAKER_10This is Flick from the Lounge, brought to you by Naomi Bennett from Les Flicks.
SPEAKER_05For our first episode, we're joined by Australian actor Mandala Rose. Many of you will know Mandala from her breakthrough role in All About E, which celebrates its 10 year anniversary in 2026. Since then, she's taken her career to the United States, starring in Forever Not Maybe while remaining closely connected to Australia. In this honest and emotional conversation, we talk about her journey, what she's working on now, and how you can keep up with her latest projects. Let's get into our conversation with Randala Rose. All About E was your first lead role, and it was actually while you were in Australia, and it's the 10-year anniversary. So tell us about All About E and where you start.
SPEAKER_14All About E was, as you said, my first lead in a feature film. I remember auditioning for this film. I had to fly to Sydney, and it was the point that completely sparked my life in LA. The story is about a DJ, E, Elmira. And she finds a bag of money with her husband, who is gay and Irish, Matt. And they go on a run with the bag of money and get into all kinds of trouble. And it leads back to E's ex-girlfriend, love of her life, Trish. It's a happy movie. No one dies, neither does the dog.
SPEAKER_05So obviously, all about E was your breakthrough moment in Australia, but then we suddenly find you in LA. So what happened and how did you make that transition?
SPEAKER_14All about E ended up screening at Outfest in LA and Frameline in San Francisco. It was in 2015, June, July 2015, and I ended up meeting, bumping into a photographer there called Christy Conichella. And we connected, and Christy ended up making writing Forever Not Maybe. It was larger lyric skis in the beginning. It was going to be a web series. Found myself in December of 2015, shooting the first ever episode. Now this film, Forever Not Maybe, brought me back again in 2016. I was actually living here, and we turned this then web series into a feature film that we made over five years. And that is how my life in LA started. Interestingly, when I got to LA, probably about 90% of the films that I have been in are queer, which I feel incredibly honored to be that representation. The films I have worked on is so Forever Not Maybe, we've got Crazy Bitches, I have August in the City, and also Bush Power for the Straight Gal on Les Flix. So check those out, they're pretty fun. Others I have Biffle, I play an ace lesbian Sarah in that one. I've also been on Hulu for a Halloween. It's called Huluen, and I was in a little queer. It was queer as well. I have a girlfriend in it, playing video games, and it's like a Skittles ad, which was really cool. So the 10%, my straighter roles. So I went to Wickenburg, Arizona for three weeks in 2017 and shot a feature film called For the Love of Jesse. I play Sage. She's a new mum, and I will spoil it, trigger warning. She loses her baby at a very late stage of pregnancy, and it's a really sad story. The shoot was incredible. There was a rattlesnake outside my house, a juvenile one. We had to chop its head off. I still have the head buried in my backyard. There is a film that just finished its festival rounds that I shot in 2023, directed by and written by Lisa Tedesco. It is called Paradise Road. And it is, I would say, so far my greatest performance to date. Story very dear to me. And I will put a trigger warning on that. It is a really sad story. It will break your heart, but it is a story that needs to be out there either way. So we're gonna try and get that out there very soon, however, we can, hopefully on Leslie.
SPEAKER_05LA the kind of heart of the film industry, but we can't ignore the fact that across the world film is having a challenging time and definitely an LA. What has that meant for your time here? What have you been doing in between film shoots?
SPEAKER_14The Paradise Road was actually my last production that I worked on as an actor. The acting industry in LA is pretty dead. What I have been doing in the meantime is working behind the camera. I work as a production assistant a lot. I've done a second camera assistant, so I like to work with all the cameras and get my hands on them. And I work for a company called Dropout TV. And I might as well mention I'm an artist, a visual artist, I'm a painter. I use a lot of mixed media, ink and watercolor, and acrylic and also threads. What I mainly concentrate on because I have an obsession with them are anatomical hearts. So that's pretty cool. I've been creating my artwork and getting that out there too.
SPEAKER_05And I think I've seen some people's artwork on your Instagram. Is it something that people can support you by purchasing? Is it just something you do for yourself? How can people support you?
SPEAKER_14Yeah, I do. I do commissions, I sell my artwork, I am opening up an Etsy shop and going to get that going. I'm looking into getting like a gallery opening if I can. But mostly people hit me up on Instagram and ask me. I love to have a conversation with people about the work that they're looking for because my artwork I feel really draws a part of my own soul into it, and it's a way that I can put out there and change the world in a way that really works with me.
SPEAKER_05Obviously, acting is your first passion and it is what you really love doing. So just in case there's any filmmakers out there watching this, any writers or anything. What would your dream role be? Or what would you say you would love maybe do that you haven't done so far or that you've done that you want to explore more?
SPEAKER_14My favorite TV series is The Walking Dead. I love everything zombie. I love everything post-apocalyptic. I would love to be in a post-apocalyptic world as a hero, maybe vigilante-ish. I'd also love to play a villain. I want to be able to tell stories that actually have real meaning behind them and actually are told for a reason, so that people can see themselves, so that people can feel as though they're really wanted here in a part of what we are creating. I've gotten to the age now, and I guess the point in my acting career where I can pick and choose what it is that I really want to be a part of. And I feel very lucky.
SPEAKER_05Do you see yourself heading back over to Australia at any point?
SPEAKER_14Australia is my love. I love Australia so much. My people are there. I'm feeling emotional. But it's really hard just because my life is here and I can't abandon that. I haven't been back home since 2022, and that feels like forever ago now. How would you do with where we are right now? I feel very strongly about what is happening in the world. How can you not? It breaks my heart what humans are doing to each other, and not just each other, but to the world around us, to nature, to all the creatures, great and small. And it's also tough because I can't actually with social media, most of my following is Instagram. And I can't post the things that I want to post and what I feel really strongly about. I create art. It's the only thing I can do. And I connect people that way, and I play music and I connect people that way.
SPEAKER_05What one thing makes you smile and gives you hope? Because I feel like right now we do need help. And I think although it's tough, there is always something good to that. So what is it that lifts you up and what is the thing that gives you hope each day?
SPEAKER_14I think like most people in the world, I want to be a light, and I want to help other people be a light and to shine bright. I have people who contact me on Instagram and they're like, your post the other day playing the guitar really lit me up, and that gives me hope, and that makes me want to do more for my community because of that one person. I see butterflies, they make me happy. Flowers, there's a bottle brush, an Australian bottle brush, right outside my house. And when that blooms, that gives me so much joy. I listen to people's music. There's a new artist out in Australia, IMA. Have you heard of her? You should check her out because she's incredible and she's going to change the world as well.
SPEAKER_05Mandala, thank you so much. I think it's really lovely to reconnect. I feel honoured to have been able to get with you in person as well and to really do this very intimate and really full circle interview with you. And thank you for being so vulnerable and open and honest with us. And I think that shows just what an incredible human you are. So thank you very much. Thank you.
The Tuck Shop Ladies On New Lesbians
SPEAKER_05Hey Sam.
SPEAKER_08Yes, Rosie. Are you from that band, The Tuck Shop Ladies? Hey, I'm glad you asked. Yeah. I wish I was. They're so cool.
SPEAKER_07Somebody said that to me the other day when I had been called into the school to have a meeting with uh the year-level coordinator and a teacher when someone that we we won't name, but who is in our family had gotten into a little bit of trouble. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Ruby was at Ruby.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. And I was standing at the reception desk at the school. And uh this woman walks past me and goes, Hey. Are you it? Girl from the doctor. Oh no. I was like, no. Anyway. I was thinking about um I was thinking about like new lesbians, right? Like we've got a friend who's recently decided that she's gonna be a lesbian. A brand new spanker. Brand new spanker lesbian. I was thinking, okay, like Do you mean just been born or gone from straight to either way. Yep. Just like have decided, have realized, have come to terms with, have started to be open about being a lesbian. Yes. Right? And that's our dog barking. At any stage of the game, this could this could happen, right? And I was thinking, you know, what are the what are the markers? What are the things, what are the flags that we go, mm, yeah, lesbian. Because sometimes you can confuse those things with like country. Oh, you know, like sporty. Or sporty. Oh like like short hair. Like when I lived in the country for a little bit, I thought everybody was a lesbian.
SPEAKER_08I'm like, yeah, a lot of the older ladies who are like, oh, hair just gets in the way when I'm out here.
SPEAKER_07Right. Like honestly, if we put you side by side next to some of those old country lesbians. No, old country lesbians. Steady on, steady, and just cut my hair. Yeah, because you've got like the flannel, yeah. Boots, the hat. Yep. Anyway, so I'm like, okay, so I've got some, I've got like a list of things that I'm like could be a giveaway that you're a new that you're a lesbian. Uh yep, okay. And and maybe if you've got some too, we could go through some of them. I'd like to hear them. Okay, well, my first one is maybe not necessarily a massive giveaway, but like if you've got a cat.
SPEAKER_08Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_07So Or two. I think two cats is too is good too. Yeah. I mean, it's not a definite.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_07No, no, none of this is definite. My ex-girlfriend's dad had 11 cats. Oh. And he definitely wasn't a lesbian. Maybe he is now. He he would have loved to be. He he actually he introduced me one day at a function um to people and he was just coming to terms with the whole, like, my daughter, my daughter's a lesbian, my daughter's got a partner, um, and we'd just like kind of moved to the area and we were at a function with him, and he he goes, introduced me to this group of people and said, This is my daughter's boyfriend.
SPEAKER_08Rosie. Okay, what's what was his name? Paul. Okay, Paul Paul is definitely not a lesbian.
SPEAKER_11No.
SPEAKER_08So but cats.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, you think cats in general, more than wine could be anyway. What about dogs?
SPEAKER_08Um yeah, I think dogs, I think dogs are making a a good um uh what is it called? Run for they're making a run for it? Is that the word? Well against cats. I think that they're they used to be a dog. Oh, they give the cats a run for their money. Yeah, g giving cats a run for their money is what I'm trying to say. Right. Um when it comes to lesbians, because I think more lesbians are getting dogs for sure. Really? Yeah. More lesbians are getting dogs and cats.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Right. So like Okay. So if I if I have a dog, I could consider, I should maybe think about am I a lesbian?
SPEAKER_08Yeah. Yep. Especially yeah, okay, and what about Subarus? Subarus.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, although I feel like maybe there's been a bit of a shift in the whole Subaru thing.
SPEAKER_08What do you think it is now?
SPEAKER_07Maybe like Skoda. Oh.
SPEAKER_08For the for the more um Profess. For more financially secure lesbian?
SPEAKER_07I saw someone with a scoda the other day and I was like, huh, never heard of that car.
SPEAKER_08Was it a lesbian? No. Oh, you're just you're just naming cars.
SPEAKER_07I'm just naming a car. Right. Okay, name something else. What else? No, I mean Subaru's like your classic. Okay, so let's imagine you've got a Subaru. Yep. You've got a dog or a cat. Yeah, more more than more likely a dog. Oh, yeah. But at least two cats. Yep. And you're into soccer. Oh yeah. Yeah. Into playing or watching?
SPEAKER_08Just probably playing.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. And and you're you're a goalie. Oh, goalie is so lesbian. You're definitely a goalie. Yeah. Um, what about um Birkenstocks?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah. I I actually have I was gonna suggest Crocs. I like the new up from Birkenstocks. I don't know. Birken Crocs. Birken Crocs. Do people wear Birkenstocks anymore?
SPEAKER_08Well, I think if you've got a bit of money, that they cost a bit of money.
SPEAKER_07Birkenstocks do.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. But Birken Crocs, not so much. Birken Crocs. I mean, Crocs aren't cheap. Hey, why hasn't Birkenstock branched out and talked to Crocs and said, what if we what if we come together?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Make a shoe baby. Make a shoe baby. Make a shoe baby with shoe. Shoop baby shoe. I'll make a baby I make a shoe baby with shoe. And make you want to make a shoe, shoop, baby, shoe, birk. Birkenstoc's Doc Martin's.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, Doc Martin's.
SPEAKER_07However, Birk and Docks. However, Birk and Docks. Our lovely house hitter, not a lesbian. Right. Wears Doc Martins. Well, she should maybe have a think about things because she is vegetarian and she wears docks. And? And she's really into the cat and the dog. Oh, maybe she doesn't even know it yet. We better ask her if she plays soccer.
SPEAKER_06She does! She does. She does play soccer.
SPEAKER_07Oh hold on. We're gonna so tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. But does she like to watch Xena reruns?
SPEAKER_08What about so Orange is a new black for sure. Is that the Zena? No, no, no. I'm just saying that there's certain shows. Yeah. Um, yeah, I I'm liking what else. L word, L word. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07That's very obvious, isn't it?
SPEAKER_08It's very obvious, but I think there are other things that are very lesbian to watch. Like what? Like Survivor?
SPEAKER_07No, I I wouldn't Alone. I don't know. I'm just saying that's what you're doing.
SPEAKER_08You're just saying shows you're watching at the moment. Well, I'm a good yardstick. Um, what would be hmm. I'm just thinking.
SPEAKER_07Ooh, you've put me on the spotle. What about if you go if you find yourself going frequently to things like poetry slams?
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah, maybe. Oh no, I think a lot of strety 180s do that too.
SPEAKER_07Straight women go to poetry? Nah. I'm I'm going with lesbians and straight men.
unknownOh, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Is my thing.
SPEAKER_08You're absolutely right. Really? Yeah, I know. I think you're right. Why? Um because we were at one just recently. A poetry slam, weren't we? Were we? Wasn't that you from Turk Shop Lady? No. Yeah, that was a poetry night. Remember that poetry night we went to? A poetry night? Yes. No. With someone who could be a new lesbian.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_07Well, anyway, that seems to have completely erased itself in my brain. But um so we're thinking maybe we've got a bit of a list here. Someone with some more things. Cats, dog, croc. Well, you said docks or birkenstocks. Yeah. I thought maybe crocs, but you're I don't know. You think that's a bit universal?
SPEAKER_08Yeah, and also what about those I think the branch out to um Birkenstocks and those Keens um no, those sandals, the the American sandals. Yeah, American sandals. You know the uh West Coast American sandal, you know, very specific. Eugene Oregon, they would wear those kind of sandals.
SPEAKER_07I'm gonna come up with another very specific lesbian item. Yep. What are those things called? You know, it's like a a a metal hook that you put on your belt. Carabina. Yeah. Yes. Right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, drink bottles? Drink bott I know I think a lot of people have drink bottles. I I just think that might be more universal than you're considering right now.
SPEAKER_08And I think I go go going back to the you know, older lesbian on the farm who's not, right, but because they got short the short hair. Yeah. I think that head hair has changed a lot too. You couldn't just say, oh, short hair lesbian, is what you were trying to say, right?
SPEAKER_07Yeah. No, that so the hair thing is not a good indicator anymore. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08But what about long hair but with um hair ties on their wrists? That's just me.
SPEAKER_07Yep, I think that's just you. All right. Um okay, so maybe for the older lesbian having Arnie DeFranco CDs and for the younger lesbian Chapel Roan playlist.
SPEAKER_08Mmm. Yeah. Oh, what else? What about um um kayaks?
SPEAKER_03Kayaks.
SPEAKER_08Yes.
SPEAKER_07Kayaks. Kayaks, so you know Caravans and kayaks. When and caravans and kayaks. When we although I do know some straight. Now I'm just thinking about our n our neighbours up the road. But I know some straight people with caravans. Well, they just haven't turned yet. It's true. We'll just let them know. Um, but like when we moved into our house and we got we got some kayaks, and then down the street come the two lesbians from like five doors down. Yeah, well, so you got some kayaks, yeah.
SPEAKER_08Did they borrow them?
SPEAKER_07I think they did, and then they bought some themselves. They borrowed the kayaks and they were so like these lesbian kayaks are amazing. Yep. They got kayaks. Do you think that they Do you know what's sad about that? What? Well, they never borrowed our kayaks again. And do you know what's sad about that? What?
SPEAKER_08The kayaks never got used again. I know. Do you remember when we bought them? And the man goes, Um, do you want a double or a single? And we went, Oh, double would be good. And he goes, They're called divorce boats. Yeah, right. He was a bit pessimistic. I think that we would have divorced if we got a double.
SPEAKER_07And that's why we're still together. Yeah, high five. We got two kayaks that we don't use.
SPEAKER_08Hey, so if anyone's listening and you're like, oh, I'd love, you know, I'm a lesbian and I want a kayak and we don't have any kayaks, pop over, borrow our money to Franco CD and Rosie's Crocs and hop in with one of our kayaks. Boom. Sorted.
Queer Music Break And Playlist Plug
SPEAKER_02Lake in the land with jellyberry.
SPEAKER_04Thirty-five hours in airports, and we don't speak. She calls you right before the flight. I don't mind cause I'm cool. Make a mental note of how you stand. Close to my body, circulating your hand you my lips I think Oh the source of you take in my couch Can you please do we explain this?
SPEAKER_01It's out now and part of her upcoming album Desire is an Angel, arriving 2nd of October. She's also on our Lord Lounge playlist if you want to
Lesbian Leap Exhibition And Lost Venues
SPEAKER_01hear more. And now we're diving into three decades of lesbian activism, creativity and community, the years that shaped a generation. Her curator Sarah Yeomans joins us to talk about lesbian leap from the archives 1970s to 2000, a landmark exhibition opening 8th of October at Seoul Gallery in Fitzroy. It's the result of two years of grassroots work, hundreds of personal collections, and a whole lot of lesbian love. Welcome, Sarah, to Lotel Lounge. I'm really glad to have you here today. Thank you. We are going to have a quick chat about a very exciting exhibition that you have been curating that will launch at International Lesbian Day in October. It's called Lesbian Leap from the Archives 1970 to 2000, over 30 years. And gee, any lesbians I've been talking to in our age records between 50 and 70, we all remember so well a lot of things that we're part of for the last 30 years. I'd like to start off for listeners to learn why you decided to do this.
SPEAKER_16Because I miss it. I miss it so much. For those 30 years, they were the peak of lesbian life in Australia. I've been a lesbian feminist activist for 50 years. And those were my peak years. That everything all my friends, all my action, all my cultural pursuits, everything was done with big gangs of lesbians who it's gone. And I miss it. We had any number of venues, we had newspapers, we had things to do. We were busy changing the world.
SPEAKER_01You know what? There are so many memories of, for example, the lesbian cabase project when they were raising funds for the lesbian cabs.
SPEAKER_16The Town Hall concert, which was the last ditch, make it tonight, or we return the money concert. Money rained from the balcony. It was literally, it was an unforgettable experience. But I'll tell you something else that stopped me on my tracks forevermore. Was the Sydney Opera House concert 191? Can you imagine that today? The entire Sydney Opera House full. The audience was lesbian, every performer was lesbian.
SPEAKER_01It was just mind-blowing. Your opening sentence, because I miss it, that's exactly what people are realizing now. Lottl was not doing much in the last years. And then when I relaunched Lottl, that was exactly the feedback I got from people. TV missed Lottl.
SPEAKER_16It was a critical part of the nineties in Sydney. And down here in the nineties, to have an actual newspaper or newsletter or magazine that reflected your life, that was full of pictures, it told you what was coming up. You could connect, all the services were laid out for you there to contact. I miss those.
SPEAKER_01We could probably chat forever about all those lovely memories, and this is what the exhibition is all about. You would have had women telling you what they've got and what they love to share with you.
SPEAKER_16The leaflets and the bull tickets and the t-shirts. You've no idea the number of badges everybody's kept. They're wonderful and they're very mysterious. You have to investigate each one. What could this one mean? I love older women. Well, it took a bit of work, it turns out to be part of the Clover Club membership. But you have to find out, because they're all a bit weird. And of course, the old woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. It's lovely to see that one again. And that's again something you don't see much of today. Yes, there are T-shirts for people women and lesbians, everybody wears. I heard someone call them opinionated t-shirts just the other day. I love that. But they're not so political, are they? We're not out there like we used to be. It was lesbians, after all, wasn't it? The very backbone of setting up refuges and who led all those peace marches and who fought for lesbian and gay immigration rights. And the first person to get arrested in the Mardi Gras 78 was Rob Placer, as you know. Lesbians were everywhere and much more visible then.
SPEAKER_01The exhibition is a real mix of historic, important milestones, but also a celebration. You talk about the women's land, for example.
SPEAKER_16Ah, I'm glad you asked, because Sand Hall has guest curated, if you like, a display of the women's lands. She has the authoritative uh trilogy that she wrote on the subject. So that's illustrated copiously with her beautiful photos. The women's land's really important. There's still a lot of interest. In fact, I think there's a revival of interest now in the women's lands, the ones in northern New South Wales.
SPEAKER_01The problem always has been with the women's land. You just don't know much about it.
SPEAKER_16There was a reason for that, of course. There's an active group now keeping it going. A lot of the buildings in time have burned down in bushfires, and there was a bit of mm-malevolent action from a neighbor, and they've had some trials.
SPEAKER_01But that's a happening thing. Doing the exhibition. This is where it becomes so fascinating because you're actually putting together this cultural, significant roadmap of the lesbian community over the last 30 years. And if you then step back and look at all of that, look at the lesbian space, look at the women's land, look at the importance lesbian did in the early gay rights movement, all of this, you step back and you really actually have to stop and take it in and realize how significant this culture, this community has been. You walk away with a bit of sadness, I would think.
SPEAKER_16This has helped my sadness, if you like. Because I have been so thrilled. We have the three of us on the committee now, have just been thrilled with the reaction from the community, the the efforts. People post things and deliver things and burns in the hearts of lesbians, and it's lovely to see that. That's really encouraging. So it's actually helped me with the feeling of uh loss.
SPEAKER_01And I think also uh today the younger generation refers to themselves as queer instead of lesbian wrong. This is not a queer exhibition, this is a lesbian exhibition. Definitely.
SPEAKER_16Absolutely. It's just true now. Uh I think you use those words, uh, lesbian culture's become interwoven now. I'll call them the rainbow community. But we're using the word and do use the word lesbian very clearly about ourselves, and it describes the culture in those years, those three decades. We knew what lesbian meant. And there was a shared meaning. It was like a glue. Although we might have had many reasons to dispute things with each other, we knew each other. We might have been wearing different clothes, we might have argued about say SM or class or and we did vigorously. We debated lesbian ethics, we had witches' covens. The variety is enormous, but we knew each other. And we knew we were a community, and I think that's gone because it's it's so splintered now.
SPEAKER_01The younger generation is I find them very appreciative of what the older generation has done for visibility and acceptance. I'm sure that the younger generation will find this exhibition incredibly uh interesting. When you curated it, have you had the younger generation in mind? What you wanted to show them or how what you would want them to walk away with?
SPEAKER_16If you're under 40 now, you probably are quite divorced from uh the era we're talking about. But the richness of the lesbian culture surely is appreciated by everybody. Surely. Tell us what the events include. We've got a couple of book launches. There's a new lesbian magazine, arts magazine called Villainelle, and issue number two is going to be launched. We've got uh Chris Sitka, who is an old hand from the women's lands doing fireside storytelling. There's a guided tour uh by Jean Taylor, who's uh early 80s and is a mainstay of creating all this culture. One thing we shouldn't neglect to mention is Chris Sitka doing the Lesbian Antiques roadshow.
SPEAKER_01Sarah, we are going to put all the details in the show notes as well. And if you're traveling lesbian anywhere in Australia, make sure you make your way to uh Melabon. How long have you been putting it together? Over two years now. Really?
SPEAKER_16That's me from the moment of thinking, my God, this has got to happen. That's about two and a half years. And others have joined and been working solidly for over a year.
SPEAKER_01You did mention that the artifacts will be returned to the people who don't need it, but gee, in a way, that's sad, that it will be all dismantled. Are you going to capture this exhibition in one way?
SPEAKER_16Absolutely. A lot of the stuff has been digitized and put on the boards rather than glued to a wall because they have to remain returnable and good nick. With any luck, it'll go to the Jesse Street National Women's Library, but that's still being negotiated. I had one last question, Sarah.
SPEAKER_01I was really intrigued to hear maybe you had one particular story or one particular artifact that came across your research or that you're exhibiting that made you cry, laugh.
SPEAKER_16Oh, what a good question. It's a bit of roller coasters. Oh gosh, I'd have to sit and think about that one. I go back to the peace movement probably. And look at the photos and the stuff of Coban Sound. 1984, December in Coban Sound near Perth. Anti-US nuke ships. I think just extraordinary women's and lesbians camp there. And the actions we all talk about. I was in an affinity group called Mermaids with Muscle. We trained for months so that we could do an action in the water with our little floaty. So I had a little giraffe floaty, and we did a ban the bomb symbol in the water with synchronized swimming. And then, of course, got arrested in the whole thing. It was so rich. It involved so much preparation by the group Women for Survival. I guess looking at the photos of Kervan Sound have certainly captivated me all over.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Sarah, for today's talk.
SPEAKER_16Oh Sorca, thank you. And thank you for Lottle.
SPEAKER_01Good luck with the exhibition.
SPEAKER_00This October, Melbourne is celebrating lesbian hirsty like never before. Lesbians Leap from the Archives 1970 to 2000 is a brand new exhibition at Seoul Gallery in Fitzroy. It's packed with rare photos, banners, books, music, t-shirts, and treasures rescued from archives and cupboards across Australia. Fell about more at Lesbian's Leap from the Archives 1970 to 2000 on Facebook or check out our show notes.
SPEAKER_01Today
Nikki Ayers On Injury And Visibility
SPEAKER_01we're diving deeper in the extraordinary story of Paralympic gold medalist, nurse, midwife, and proud gay woman, Nikki Iris. O A M or P L Y. You may also already read Karen Bryan's powerful feature on Lottl.com, capturing Nikki's journey from a devastating rugby injury to becoming Australia's first paralympic growing gold medalist. A story of resilience, belonging, visibility, and choosing to begin again. In this conversation, we bring Nikki and Karen together to explore the moments behind the article, the courage it takes to be seen, and the future. Nikki is still discovering for herself.
SPEAKER_15About a month ago, I had the fabulous opportunity to sit down and have a chat with Nikki Ayers IM and it was a wonderful opportunity to meet a really inspiring woman, a Paralympic gold medalist, a nurse, a midwife, a proud gay woman from a small town in New South Wales. And I think when I sat down and arranged to meet you, Nikki, I thought that I was going to be capturing an athlete who'd recently retired at the end of something incredibly profound, but instead I found someone who was mid-journey, funny, fierce, and really still working out what you're capable of doing and what I found most importantly, opening the door behind you and leaving the door open behind you for others to come through. So welcome. I'm looking forward to having a bit more of a chat. I'd like to start off by taking you back to the beginning. Before when we were chatting, one of the things that I remember first at the beginning was way before you were a gold medalist, before your rowing, before rugby, before your injury, you talked about when you were a little kid on the South Coast, even then, knowing that you wanted to be, you wanted to represent Australia as an elite athlete. How did you come about having such drive at such a young age?
SPEAKER_09I don't know. I think it was a lot to do with mum and dad growing up. Mostly mum. Mum, dad was doing a lot of play and fly out work. So mum pretty much raised four of us kids growing up. But mum kind of always taught us that everything is possible and didn't let the world tell us that you couldn't do what you wanted to do, like growing up. Or my siblings, so like I got an older brother, my older sister, my little brother. Everyone was playing rugby league, and I wanted to do what everyone else was doing. And just because I was female, it didn't stop me. Mum's like, yeah, cool, we can do this kind of a thing. And I just remember in 1996 when I was five years old, just watching the Olympics and just seeing everyone on the green and gold, it was the environment we grew up in. If you believe in it, I'll help you to make that come true.
SPEAKER_15You found rugby, and that was very much how you built a lot of your identity and also came out. Tell us a little bit about that safe space, how that formed a big part of your early identity, and what it was to lose that when you had your injury.
SPEAKER_09The safe space that I had in rugby union, I was 15, 16 when I first started playing rugby union, and we were living in a little town in a room on the south coast, New South Wales. And so my sister would take mum and I on a Thursday, we'd leave school early, we'd drive two and a half to three hours to get to Canberra, train for an hour, go home, and we'd do the same again on Saturdays. And so I grew up in a little coastal town where I remember there was one kid at school who was perceived to be gay and got bullied really bad. And so you just naturally think if you are different or think you're different, you just hide that because you don't want to get bullied like them. I don't really remember many female sports role models. And I just remember the first couple of times going there into that rugby environment to seeing lesbians being out and proud and kissing each other in the open and like being like, Mum, what is this? And mum's like, this is normal to you. Just being introduced to that safe space where there's no judgment. And you could be who you wanted to be. A, you could be a female athlete and play a sport that you love, but you could also be who you are off the field, and that became my everyday norm. And so seeing that as I was getting older and learning more and becoming more curious, that created that safe space for me to go on my journey of discovering who I was and not feeling any different and not feeling ashamed and not feeling judged before it. And in turn, it's like you're welcomed. And so that was really amazing that queer journey side of it for me. But then the sporting side of it, I was good at rugby and I loved it. And so I moved to Canberra when I finished high school to study nursing at the University of Canberra, but that was on the backbone. I was like, my whole life was rugby. I was really good at it, I was enjoying it. You started to get more opportunities as the sport was developing a little bit. I was a rugby player before I was anything else. And then sevens came in when it got announced for the Olympics as well. And so sevens became pretty big. So you're playing rugby 12 months a year. So you do your 15s in the winter season and you do sevens in the summer comp. So it just kind of took over my whole identity, my life. And all I wanted was to convert that childhood dream, going to the Olympics as a chicken feeder into a Wallaroo and wearing that green and gold jersey. And that was my sole purpose in life for the 10 years that I played rugby. And then the injury.
SPEAKER_15And it all felt like it was taken away. Talk to us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, so in 2016, because I'd taken a bit of a break from rugby to step back and advance my career, and I found the love for travel as well. And I kind of realized I was immersed too much in the party culture of rugby. And it's like, if I want to focus on my career and do these things, I need to do things differently. And then so in 2016, I found my grid. Where I realized I had the talent, I wasn't applying it. And so I was training more, I was training smarter, I was doing all the right things. And my coach and I had an agreement, and I was like, this is the year I'm gonna get that green and gold jersey. So I'd made two Wallery training camps in a couple of years after that. But the only feedback I got was you're good, just not good enough. And so 2016, it was my year, it was our first pre-season game, and we were winning and we're having a really good game. And I made a break down the sideline, and just in this tackle, in this one tackle out of millions of tackles, my knee dislocated. I remember the moment on impact, I started screaming and let out a scream that I I didn't know my body was capable of. And as I was falling to the ground, I looked down and I could see my knee facing one way, my foot facing the other. And my sister was playing on the same team at the same time, and she said one of my teammates had to jump on me to stop me from rolling around. I was in so much pain. I had pins and needles and then couldn't feel my foot. So the nurse in me knew this was bad. Fast forward 16 surgeries in nine months. I had originally had 10 surgeries in 21 days to save my leg from being amputated, to brighting up removing the dead muscle infections and whatnot. Then nine months later, I finally had my knee reconstruction surgery and was on that rehab pathway. And in that tackle, that moment, like as I said, my whole identity was a rugby player and that was taken away and it wasn't my choice. And so that was one of the biggest things in my recovery was finding who I was again now. I wasn't a rugby player, I wasn't nursing at that point in time for a little bit. So it was finding that new piece and coming to terms like I've now had a disability, but I didn't know that. No one ever comes up to you while you're in hospital and says you have a disability. You've got diagnosed foot drop, you've got part of your leg that we've removed, therefore that's a disability. No one tells you that. So you've got to know on that of finding that yourself. I remember I had a phone call who with Karen Faulkner, who was working for Paralympics Australia, and she's saying, Come to this information session at the AAS for training for Tokyo. And like I was still on crutches, and mum and I went there. And I'm pretty sure at that point I didn't even identify as a person with a disability. I still had no idea. I was just struggling. My whole world that I envisioned was taken away. And you see people with these disabilities, and then you get to learn more about paraathletes. And then, like, I got a letter from Paralympics Australia saying if you use four sports, rowing, cycling, wheelchair tennis, Care bus, or we think you're good at like come and give them a go. And you're like, wow, like there's opportunity here. Like, my whole life hasn't been taken away. This isn't the end of the road. There's more to this. And so my best friend's dad was coaching rowing at the time. And so I just jumped in a rowboat and had some chats with Rowing Australia. And that's how I transitioned into rowing. And my first real taste of being a part of the para community, where it was very similar to my experience in rugby, where it didn't matter that you felt different or you were different. You were just welcomed straight away. You knew that safe space was made straight away. And it was such an amazing feeling when you're having such an identity crisis as well, just to be welcomed in and everyone be like, You're our person. This is this is our mob and you're a part of it. So come on in.
SPEAKER_15Let's skip ahead a bit. So you competed at Tokyo Paralympics. And people around you knew that you were queer, but you weren't publicly out by Paris. Visibility had become a part of your core purpose. What did it cost you early in in your sort of rowing career to feel that you couldn't be your full self? And what changed between Tokyo and Paris?
SPEAKER_09It definitely, from the athlete perspective, it definitely cost performance because people who knew me and people that got to know me and that I felt safe around did know I was queer. I was in a relationship than my now ex-wife at that point, and she had a more typical male name as well. And so just in conversations, I would use her name and people just assumed she was male, and I wouldn't correct them because I didn't feel safe to be out about that. And so I was always worried about the conversations and didn't feel included. And so I'd be wasting my energy and my anxiety on what people were going to think about me, how I was going to get judged, would I get excluded from the community? Because there wasn't really any visibility of inclusion there, of queer people being out in that rowing community. And so much time and energy was wasted on that instead of being able to rock up, focus, cool, this is what's happening today, this is how I can perform, and not having to mask and hide who I was a lot of the time. And that's what I learned through the Thrive of Pride program. And so from that moment, I was like, I'm comfortable with who I am. I'm proud of who I am. So I'm happy to use my voice and be out and show people that you can be your true authentic self and follow your dreams and achieve them. And so that was that turning point for me in between like that Tokyo cycle and that Paris cycle. And so coming into Paris, I was out. I was one of the pride ambassadors for the Pride House as well, the Paralympic Games, which was really cool being able to be on that platform and yeah, just be a role model and show people that you can be your true authentic self and you can go out there and win a gold medal for Australia.
SPEAKER_15You talk to me a bit about a big regatta that you were at in northern Italy where you and your rowing partner Jed had Pride socks on. One, you were told that you couldn't wear your pride socks. You rolled them down to accept the medal, but then you rolled them up to have the photos taken, and you also followed that up with an email to Word World Rowing about it. Tell us about that moment and what it meant taking that stand to say, no, this is something that's really important, this visibility is important.
SPEAKER_09We had an international regatta at in Gavarate in northern Italy, and so we turned it into a pride regatta. All the power rollers for that whole regatta, we were our pride sods. And that was a really awesome moment where they were coming, saying, Nikki, we see you in your community. And so then it was World Cup in Italy, and that was Jed and I's first international event. So going there in that regatta, we broke the world record, then we broke our own world record, and then we won gold, and it was our first official world rolling event where we were black of the best in the world. And so it was a really amazing moment doing that with one of my mates. And Jed wore his pride slots as well, and we were going up to accept the medal, and we got told to take them off because it was a political statement. In that moment, you just feel not accepted, you don't feel seen, and you don't feel validated as a human being. You're being told that you're different to us and we don't accept you for you. I remember just feeling like this sting was coming out my ears and my face would have been bright red. And Jed's like, mate, just don't let it ruin the moment. It's okay. Because instead we've rolled the socks down, got our medal, and as soon as we're off the dais, pulled the socks up, had all our photos with our prize socks. And to me, it was important to have that visibility there. And again, it's that representation, it's being there in the media and so people can see that you are seen, that I can see you, I accept you for all the queer community, all the allies out there. And again, you can be here on a world stage and be who you are. And so with that, I was like, wasn't going to stand down. So I got the support of Rowing Australia. They agreed it was not the right step for them, world rowing to take and sent a big email explaining that why this is so important, why it's not a political statement, and trying to use my voice to advocate for change. And that was me trying to stand up for our community. Just show the world that it's not a political statement. And just because we might appear different to you doesn't mean we are any less human or any less deserving of wearing some pride spot socks while we're getting a gold medal.
SPEAKER_15You've got a scar from the injury that runs down the length of your leg. And there's a time that you talked about where you would wear long pants in summer to hide the scar, but you don't cover it at all now. Talk about how that change came about and what that means to you.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I was very conscious about my scar. It was again to that identity piece. I was still really holding on to who I was and who I identified was before that injury. Then I think I'd only just started seeing a psychologist more regularly than realizing I wasn't okay. It was in 2017, the first time I ever met Jed. And it's just so funny that this is the full circle. Jed when we first met in 2017, and then we win a gold medal together in 2024. And so he had his workplace accident 12 months before me, where he had a lower leg amputation. And we were just sitting in the van at the AIS on a camp and talking, and he was just talking about in his recovery where he realized that he couldn't change the fact that his leg had been amputated. But what he could change was his mindset to accept that and realize that's not gonna change. And it was just that one conversation that I realized he's so right. My leg's not gonna change. And for me to make the most of I need to accept that and accept that's now who I am. And so I remember from that day on, I was just like stopped wearing those trackies trying to hide my leg and started wearing it and being proud of it. I'm so proud of those scars today. Scars can tell a thousand stories. And my little nieces, they're so proud. They introduced me as this is Annie Dickey who won a gold medal, this is Annie Dickey who got a broken leg. And it starts conversation, the curiosity. But for me, I now look at pictures of me of me before my accident and I don't recognize that leg. I'm like, that's not my leg anymore. It's just very much that mindset shift of accepting what has happened and accepting what is your reality and being okay with that.
SPEAKER_15And you said to me when we met that actually having the injury was in the end, looking back one of the best things that's happened to you.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I definitely think so. I honestly can say it's one of the best things that happened because I love who I am today because of the experiences I've had. I love the experiences that I've had, that I now get to be a role model and apparently pick gold medaless is pretty bloody cool.
SPEAKER_15And you now do public speaking, you go into schools and talk to young people. You could say anything to anybody and through that process of helping to develop pathways. Tell us a bit about that importance to you now.
SPEAKER_09I love going and chatting to school kids and you never know what they're going to take away from that conversation. And my biggest message to anybody, but especially the kids, is like I always tell them you've got this, don't let everybody turn you different. And it's just dream big and follow that dream. Because as society, we're so busy focusing on telling people they can't do this or that good enough way. We should be the other way around. We should be building kids up. We should be saying if this is your dream, go after it and follow it and just keep up with it. And that's what my purpose is going out and sharing my story is trying to help ignite that in people and let them realize that they are worthy and that you've got this dream big and you can do whatever you want.
SPEAKER_15You retired from rowing and we called the article that we wrote from when we had the chat, Still Finding Out What I Can Do. You're now back training and looking at other sports, and maybe another Paralympics in a different sport is on the horizon. What are you most curious about finding out about yourself and doing next?
SPEAKER_09I think the curiosity is still finding out what I can do. I remember so vividly, I don't know, it was like within a couple of days after my injury, laying in the intensive care unit, and I had a doctor tell me I was never gonna walk again. When you have an injury like that, and just in life, especially as a female, you always get told you can't do this, you're not good enough. When I finally got to a place for me, it's now about finding out what I can do. It's about challenging myself and seeing how I can be the best version of me and be the best human. For me, like in rowing, I love the rowing. At times I didn't feel fully valued within that. And so I made the decision to leave a sport that I love to go out and find new challenges to test me as a human, to test me as an athlete and find the best version of me. So that's what this next step is: trying some wheelchair basketball and some hand cycling at this point and see what I can achieve in either of them.
SPEAKER_15Thanks, Nikki. It's been so wonderful getting to know you and having these chats. And I look forward to hearing more about those next steps. Yeah, thanks, Karen. It's been great to chat now.
SPEAKER_01And next
Next Guest Tease And How To Support
SPEAKER_01little lounge, we sit down with Ryder Jefferson Barrow, whose new biography of Lesbian Hardford brings to life one of Australia's most extraordinary queer poets and activists, a woman who loved broadly, voted virtually, and reshaped the world around her. Jeff will share insights from the book and read a beautiful excerpt. We also feature music from Holly Thortopy and bring you more wonderful interviews from across our queer community. If you enjoy today's episode, follow us, share the show, and help us reach even more listeners. Your support keeps the queer stories loud, broad and beautifully visible. Remember, follow our queer music playlist on Spotify and SoundCloud. Lot of launch days free, but in October we are introducing a membership tile, including a legacy member option. If you want to support queer storytelling, community voices, and independent media, your membership helps us keep going. I'm Silke Barra. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.
SPEAKER_10This is our place. Thanks for the love and the time you break. The lounge baits out with warmth and grate. Till next time, friends, from the yellow tea lounge bait.
