Yours Lawfully Podcast
Yours Lawfully Podcast
Can the Planet Handle Our Data?
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“Our digital life feels invisible: putting data in the cloud, but it goes into a server, and every transaction has a certain CO₂ footprint. Our industry has to build more responsible infrastructure because we are hitting the limits of our Planet.”
Our digital lives feel effortless, but are we aware of the infrastructure and impact behind them? From streaming and cloud storage to AI tools and automated backups, global data demand is accelerating at an extraordinary pace. But what does this rapid growth mean for the environment?
In this episode of Yours Lawfully, we explore the physical reality behind “the cloud”: large-scale data centres and their growing energy footprint. Joined by Laurens van Reijen, Founder and CEO of LCL Data Centers, we unpack the pressures on energy, water, and land, the innovations aimed at improving efficiency, and examine whether our digital habits need to evolve. Can technological progress and environmental responsibility truly align or are we heading toward a breaking point?
Tune in for an insightful conversation about infrastructure, accountability, and the unseen cost of staying connected.
Think about your day so far. A photo here, a message there, a quick scroll, a weather check, maybe even a question to GNAI. Tiny moments, forgettable taps and swipes, but each one leaves a digital trace and those traces accumulate fast. In 2018, the world generated 33 zettabytes of data. Today we're on track to blast past 2000 zettabytes by 2035. It's a number so massive it feels abstract until remember it's built second by second from us tapping, scrolling, uploading. Every notification, every upload, every stream, every automated backup. Billions of humans generating billions of tiny moments every second. And all that data must live somewhere. It doesn't float in a weightless cloud. It lands here on Earth, inside vast, energy hungry data centers. Silent, windowless warehouses that keep our digital lives running and that come with the price tag for the planet. These buildings sit by the crossroads of our limitless appetite for information and the planet's very real physical limits.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to today's episode of Yours Lovely. We are Christwish and Anna, LLM students at Queen Mary University. Based out of Queen Mary's award-winning commercial law clinic, in today's show, we're talking about data centers and the environment. We're stepping inside that world to understand what data centers actually are, why they matter, and what their environmental footprint really looks like. We'll look at the industry's innovations, the challenges it's up against, and ask a question most of us never think about. Can the planet handle our data? Let's find out. Everything we talk about is detailed in the show notes. Link in the description. Today we are joined by Laurence Varay, the founder and chief executive officer of LCL Data Centers, one of the leading players in Belgium's digital infrastructure landscape. LCL Data Centers has been at the forefront of developing sustainable, secure, and innovative data center solutions. And we're thrilled to have Lawrence here with us to share his experience.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for coming. And I think let's just jump straight into the first question. We share the word data center all the time, but most people have never seen one. Could you explain what exactly is a data center and what happens inside?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh, data centers are uh buildings, uh uh big warehouses without windows. Uh and um inside uh these buildings there are a lot of servers, storage systems, routers, uh, telecom equipment uh which uh are used uh to store information or process information. But also in data centers you have all kinds of backup systems like uh you know batteries, uh generators. In case uh the power fails, you automatically uh go on batteries and generators uh start kicking in. And then, of course, uh, you know, when you have uh a PC or a laptop, you feel the heat coming out of it. We need also uh big cooling systems to cool down uh you know all the heat. So uh these buildings uh exist everywhere, sometimes uh you know, in uh in office buildings, yeah, uh sometimes there's a server room, but uh also uh you know, as separate buildings like we have uh with AC LCL, we have uh you know a big building where we have uh many different customers in it. But also, uh, for example, um if you're going uh on a cloud provider like uh you know Google or Facebook, they have huge uh facilities uh with a huge uh number of servers. So uh they can offer you Facebook or any of the services they offer. So there are many types uh of uh data centers, and the new ones are the AI data centers. Uh these uh you know are training uh with data, and um uh that's a new class of data centers which uh came up in the in the last uh years.
SPEAKER_01Okay, thank you very much. And how has the scale and purpose of data centers evolved in the last two years? Is there the particular reason you mentioned AI, but how does it make the the scale and purpose different?
SPEAKER_00Oh yes, when uh when we started uh long uh long ago, 20 years ago, uh even longer, you know, data centers were very uh small, and um uh you know there was not yet so much data. And it all started with the uh internet, and uh much data was created, uh, emails, streaming, uh video, um, all these uh you know new types of uh data, you know, um has as a result that there are many more data centers uh everywhere in the world, and uh they are there's more need for them because people are uh you know creating all day new information which can be stored on these uh servers, and also businesses have become more complicated. You know, uh long ago uh uh you know your bank account was uh in a ledger, paper ledger, but now it's all digital and you want to have instant access to it. So it's you know the digital world have has uh completely changed uh everything, and we need more and more data centers. So uh and that's uh you know an evolution which uh you know uh makes that uh there are more buildings uh um in the world where uh data is stored.
SPEAKER_01Okay, thank you so much. Now that we know what a data center is, let's look into why there is a concern about the environmental impact of data centers. And was this something that the industry foresaw or did it catch people by surprise?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh data centers always had uh one big bill, and that was the electricity bill, because we had to pay so much uh to the power company, we always tried to be very efficient. And uh, so uh that was uh not an uh environmental reason, that was just uh you know a cost reason. And then uh, you know, the more data centers came, and uh you know there was more concern, and you know that's logic, uh more of these buildings, more power usage. So um, and um what happened is at a certain point in in Europe you had uh the Green Deal, uh which was uh you know six years ago, I think, uh introduced, and um then the data centers sat together and said, Yeah, we have to do something about the environment, and then uh together with all the European data centers, we created uh the climate neutral data center pact. And that the the goal was to reduce uh you know our uh CO2 uh footprint by being being more efficient with uh power, by being more efficient with water usage, uh, by uh using green energy. Uh, we all most of the data centers buy uh nowadays green energy, um by uh recycling and repairing servers, and uh also by uh you know uh try to reuse uh the heat which uh comes out of data centers. So that was really uh you know uh a step forward for me personally, because uh uh um I uh you know we we signed up for the climate neutral data center pact, but I always wondered how much CO2 emissions do we have in our data center? So I invited um an engineering company and then they calculated our CO2 emissions, uh the CO2 we were emitting every year. And then I said to the engineer, Yeah, how can I lower it? Because uh we're growing every year. We we grew every year 10%. How in the world can I ever uh you know reduce that? And then they came up with all kinds of uh measures which we could take uh to uh to reduce it. And um then we uh you know we signed up with science-based targets initiative, uh, and uh we reduced uh we decided to reduce our um emissions with um uh uh 41 percent uh according to the um Paris Agreements, and that's you know that started with us, and so we came into a journey of uh sustainability, and uh uh and this lives really in in our company, but in general, in in our sector, uh you know uh in everybody in the data center sector, uh in all these companies try to be uh more and more efficient, use green energy. Um so there's really uh within our um you know um association and in our sector really the the feeling we have to do something back uh with uh you know by being more and more efficient.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and I think that the concern surrounding the environmental impact of data centers is very apparent, but there is another camp of people that support data center construction. And what do you think about these arguments and whether they're convincing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course, um um yeah in some cities uh uh you have in Europe, you have in fact five, no, four cities where you have a lot of data centres. We call it a flap region, that's Frankfurt, London, Amsterdam, and Paris. And in some of these cities, like in Amsterdam, they don't like anymore the data centers because they are huge buildings without windows, and uh so um there's uh some opposition uh uh against it, and um but yes, um of course um yeah um in our daily life we use uh digital products uh and uh there is a need uh of course for uh storing it somewhere. So um yeah uh you cannot imagine a life without any uh you know PCs, laptops, smartphones, uh uh the applications, the video streaming, uh, you know, the AI today, Googling. So yeah, it's it will be very difficult um to um to stop with that. Uh that would bring us back uh 50 years. So um I don't imagine that people uh want that, and there are also very good applications, like uh you know, because of uh IT, uh um uh you can predict uh floodings, you can uh there are so many uh you know positive applications also. It's not only gaming or uh um our life uh becomes more efficient, and um we can do much more, we can gain time. So there are many uh positive things, but of course, uh the environment uh uh uh that's more uh like a negative thing, yeah. And there we need to be very uh prudent and um uh and and find solutions. Uh but it must be said also there's a lot of innovation, so um you see uh much faster uh processors where you can uh you have uh you know everything becomes smaller, um there's uh you know uh efficiency gains in in uh servers, in laptops. So um so there's a lot being done to uh you know to make everything uh you're more efficient. But there's also yeah, because it's more efficient, uh it costs maybe more less expensive, people will use it more, maybe. Yeah, so that's that's a bit of a of the problem. Um but I think we we need to live with it, uh and and worldwide. I think uh you know around two percent of the energy is used in data centers, and this will probably grow uh to a higher rate. Uh maybe it will double, maybe it will triple. Um yeah, that's that's the consequence of it.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I think you brought up a very important point that data centers are always going to be an integral part of our lives. And with that being said, what promising ways are there to make data centers more energy efficient and environmentally friendly, seeing that they will always be here?
SPEAKER_00Oh, there are so many uh small innovations uh in data centers. You can use you know uh higher temperatures. When I started in this business, the data center was really cold, and you had to take a jacket uh uh with you to go inside. Now uh you better go in uh in inside with a swimming suit because it's so hot, and that that's uh you know, uh that's more efficient. Um we have to take all kinds of uh measures like building cold corridors. Um so there are a lot of uh uh small things uh we can do uh to uh improve it, but also uh you know big bigger things like um uh with AI, there is now also uh a new cooling system uh which is called liquid cooling, where you really bring uh um liquids to the processor directly on the processor so it cools easier. So there are many uh innovations uh which are um uh there to improve uh the efficiency of data centers, and there are many people uh working on it. On the other hand, you uh of course uh um uh you build these buildings, and that's concrete that has a lot of CO2 emissions, and uh steel has a lot of uh CO2 emissions, so maybe in future we have to build data centers in wood, which is uh much better for the environment. Maybe also we have to look at uh biodiversity. Um most of the data centers buy green energy, but uh for example, we ourselves have our own windmills. We we have uh invested in our own windmills, our own solar parks. So we have uh five solar parks. Uh for the moment we have three windmills. So um, and many of these um data centers like Amazon, they do a lot of what they call uh corporate power purchase agreements. They buy green energy from uh people who set up a solar park, and they tell these people we buy all the energy for the coming 20 years, so you can finance your um your solar park. You have uh an off-taker, we pay you for the green energy over a period of 20 years, and that's how you can finance this uh solar park. Um, so there are many initiatives I think uh taken uh uh by um the sector, uh taken by uh many data center uh companies um uh uh to uh you know um to be more sustainable, and that's I think a good thing.
SPEAKER_01Okay, thank you. That's really interesting. So you would say that there is a lot of collaboration between the data industry, uh energy companies and and local governments to make this work?
SPEAKER_00Yes, uh of course. Uh the the with the data center uh you live next door to uh people, so you you need to uh you know uh uh you know talk to to these people, to the you know um uh with your uh neighbors and uh you know try to reduce some of uh you know the noise which a data center can make or uh you know make this building uh look better with uh uh you know um uh greening the the facade or uh um with uh you know we we we are talking also with the you know neighboring companies. So we have a project where we will sell or we'll give away probably the heat which we are created to a neighboring company who can use the heat in uh in a production process. So uh we have to work more in ecosystems and more work together with uh you know uh with everybody. Um so um probably yeah the government is also coming up with legislation. Uh five years ago we didn't have any legislation. Now we have to report to uh the European Commission our uh you know power usage so they uh can come up with some measures which we could take uh to improve our efficiency. So yeah, there's a lot of things to do.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much. So before we end this episode, we would like to ask you another question. Can the environment realistically keep up with our data demands?
SPEAKER_00I think so. Of course, we will uh use more and more data centers and and we have to do this uh more efficiently uh efficiently. But you know, remember um uh before we had Zoom and uh Teams, and we had to travel a lot uh to meet. And uh now with uh you know this type of technology um yeah we don't have to travel, which is also uh saving, uh uh saving of time, saving of uh carbon emissions. Um you with with AI and all the tools we have, we can uh you know use that in uh in uh healthcare. Um the uh it's maybe easier to find uh you know uh medicine with AI. Um so um and and and maybe with uh you know um uh AI you can also predict flooding, uh flooding of uh rivers. Um so there are all also many positive things. Um but we need always to keep that a bit in balance, of course. Um for example, uh you know um uh you don't feel it often, but uh when you're streaming uh let's say um uh Netflix and you don't watch it, that costs energy, yeah uh and then it's better to turn it off. So there's sometimes also a lot of waste which is created. Uh so we need to uh you know, as a user user also be uh responsible and uh you know not always use it, or you know, when I go to a restaurant, I don't use my phone. Uh, when I'm uh sitting at the table to search the internet, I do talk to the people. Uh and uh so I I think um uh we have a lot of habits and we have to think about these habits, and um and if we don't uh use it all the time, then we will all automatically save some uh you know compute uh power and electricity, and um but that's uh a choice people have to make themselves. I cannot force them. Um sometimes governments uh uh say uh now that uh children uh below a certain age are not allowed to use uh uh you know social media. Uh is it a good thing or not? Uh depends. Um but you see that um and there are some uh concerns about it, and in Europe and the European Commission is doing a lot about that, uh making legislation, uh GDPR legislation, uh making legislation about certain things which you can or cannot do with AI. And I think that's a good thing. We we need to think about uh that and do everything in a responsible way.
SPEAKER_02I see you've mentioned a couple of digital behaviors that we can let go of, but do you think that digital minimalism itself can ever really go mainstream?
SPEAKER_00Uh I don't know. It's um it's maybe uh yeah you know teaching uh people good habits. Uh if you're uh doing uh an um you go to a chat bot, uh don't say uh thank you, uh because that consumes energy. Or uh when you do uh I think uh very important in uh in uh AI when you use chatbots Is uh you know write the right prompt. Think really about what you want to ask to a chatbot and uh you know being precise and um so you don't have to ask follow-up questions. Um so I think that's that's something uh where people can do uh things so that everybody can do something. Yeah, it's um but it doesn't feel when you do all these things that you're consuming energy. Yeah. So it's that's and when you scroll on certain uh social media, you can continue for hours scrolling. Uh maybe you need to say at a certain point stop. Uh maybe that's a good uh you know, uh people should uh learn these habits at school or somewhere.
SPEAKER_02Just going on to a final question: what do you think is one message you want listeners to walk away with today?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's um uh a very good question. Uh and I think uh our digital life feels really invisible. It's like you're putting data in the cloud, but it's not a cloud, it's a server. But every you know, transaction or everything you do has a certain uh CO2 footprint. You have to be aware of that. And of course our industry has to be uh has to build more responsible uh you know digital infrastructure. We really have to build something more uh responsible. So uh because otherwise our planet, uh we we're hitting the the limits of our planet. So that's that's the the message I want to bring.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for that. I think that's a very insightful message because oftentimes we underestimate, you know, the global impact that our digital behaviors have. And today we have really unrivaled the growing impact of data centers. Is data the new pollution and is it becoming the 21st century's waste problem? What are the challenges data centers face and what innovations can make them more sustainable? Could there ever really be a concept such as sustainable data storage? And ultimately, how do we manage infinite data on a finite planet? We have become oblivious to all the small actions that create data and the ripple effect of small actions often leads to a wave of lasting change. An important question to ask ourselves today should not solely be how data centers can manage their environmental impact, but how we as individuals can play a role in reducing waste and finding the perfect balance between our digital and ecological footprint.
SPEAKER_01And with that, all that's left to say is a massive thank you to Laurit Van Rey for joining us on today's episode. Thoughts, feedback, and questions are all very welcome. Thank you for listening.