What If Your Best Lead Filter Is Truth

Price shoppers aren’t your enemy. They’re your mirror. When buyers only know “shed” as a plastic box from Amazon or a big-box kit, your best-built structure will look overpriced no matter how pretty the photos are. So, we sit down with Izaak Neil of Bear Country Marketing to talk about the real lever that changes outcomes: educating customers before the sales call with trust systems, radical transparency, and clear expectation alignment.

We get concrete about what “education” looks like in shed marketing and portable building sales. Instead of dumping build specs on a page, Isaac explains how to show craftsmanship so regular homeowners instantly grasp the difference between a permanent backyard structure and a temporary box. That means quick shop videos, simple explanations of framing choices like 16 inches on center and double top plates, and content that answers the questions people are afraid to ask: what drives shed pricing, what makes cheap sheds fail, and what a quality build can last.

We also break down lead generation strategy for the shed industry. Google Ads and search traffic tend to bring higher-intent buyers because they’re actively looking, while Facebook and Instagram can attract “doom scroll” leads unless your ad copy reads like helpful information, not a sales pitch. Isaac shares a practical filter for tiny house and shed-to-home conversion inquiries, including why a cost guide with real ranges can eliminate tire kickers, reduce sales rep burnout, and create better customer satisfaction.

If you got value from this, subscribe to the Shed Geek Podcast, share the episode with a shed seller or manufacturer, and leave a review so more builders can find it. What’s the one question you wish your buyers asked first?

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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

Three Oaks Lumber Co.
Shed Challenger
LuxGuard
Making Sales Simple
Pittsburgh Paints Co

Transcript

Welcome And Sponsor Message

INTRO 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. Here's a message from our studio sponsor. Let's be real. Running a shed business today isn't just about building great sheds. The industry is changing fast. We're all filling the squeeze, competing for fewer buyers, while expectations keep climbing. And yet, I hear from many of you that you are still juggling spreadsheets, clunky software, or disconnected systems. You're spending more time managing chaos than actually growing your business. That's why I want to talk to you about our studio sponsor, ShedPro. If you're not already using them, I really think you should check them out. Shed Pro combines your 3D configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries, and dealer tools all in one platform. They even integrate cleanly into our Shed Geek marketing solutions. From website lead to final delivery, you can quote, contract, collect payment, and schedule delivery in one clean workplace. No more double entries, no more back-and-forth payments. If quoting is faster, orders are clean. And instead of chasing down paperwork, you're actually running your business. And if you mention Shed Geek, you'll get 25% off all setup fees. Check it out at shedpro.co/ shedgeek. Thank you, ShedPro, for being our studio sponsor and honestly for building something that helps the industry.

Trust Systems Before The Sales Call

Shannon 1:33

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek Podcast here uh joining you from Metropolis and uh just I believe a stayed over as my guest today. And I'm excited really about this just sort of these marketing podcasts we've been doing lately from all these people across the industry that are doing a great job uh on the Shed Sales Professionals page and others to kind of um put content out there that is very, very worth reading and watching and learning about uh if you're marketing in your business. And we all are. So before we get rolling, just a couple of ways to stay plugged in. Uh, if you want to give us a call over here, 618-309-3648. Uh, that is my direct line. Feel free to call, text, email. Uh, if you want to email me, it's info (i-n-f-o) @shedgeek.com. Of course, you can check out our website at shedgeek.com, fill out any lead forms to contact us, uh, as well as our newsletter. For those of you who don't get the newsletter, please subscribe. Uh, just go to Deanna, D-E-A-N-N-A, uh @shedgeek.com, and she will get you subscribed to the newsletter. Go read blogs, check out the today's description, uh, and interact with the links on there. Click and take a look at different uh services that people are offering. We at Shed Geek want to be a resource for you. Uh, all these private pages, check them out. Um, I mentioned the Shed Sales Professionals page. We're admin on that. Uh, we love being able to build community through the industry and for the call-in landline. Um, those of you who have Amish friends who want to listen or plain community friends who want to listen, 330-997-3055. And shout out to Wolf Valley. I put on my Wolf Valley hat today. Uh, we interviewed Wolf Valley down in Itasca, Texas in year one of the podcast. We're now in year six. So, shout out to Josh Via Lobos and Charles who uh, you know, um do what they do down there. Uh, Josh was great on the on the show. Uh, he had said something to me back then that said Americans have a problem, and that is that they have so much opportunity, they often don't know what to choose from. Uh, and that is certainly understandable as we've looked in at the last five years of the podcast. Thank you, Josh and Charles, for all you guys do and have done. And thank you for the hat. We appreciate that. So, today's guest, Izaak, tell me a little bit about who you are and what you do, sir. Welcome to the show.

Izaak Neil 3:59

Hey, thank you so much uh for having me for sure. Uh, so I design trust systems that prepare the customer for the sales call. That's essentially what I do. Uh, most marketing tries to persuade people to buy. Uh, I focus on helping companies educate customers so that before they even have the sales conversation, uh, you know, pretty much the customer's ready to buy, or at least asking more buying questions. Uh, what I've found is that the number one question that I got as a sales rep when I did that um was how much is that building? Right. And ideally it should be what what's a good size, you know, what are good size and options for my backyard for my situation? That should be the number one question. Unfortunately, is it's how much for that building? And I believe that is because it's not a sales problem, it's not a marketing issue, it's a messaging, uh, you know, it's a messaging issue. And or I would say a messaging opportunity. And that's what the you know that that's what I really try to focus on, especially with high-ticket sales. Anything that's above a thousand dollars, you know, you've gotta you've got to help educate the buyer, have you know, clear, transparent pricing and understanding of why they're pricing the way they are, and then have proper expectation alignment. So that way before after the sale, you know, you're not having people calling you and being like, hey, my shed's broken.

Shannon 5:33

I like the term educate the buyer because that fits right into our newest adventure of consultation. Because as a B2B company right now, where we only focus on um those in the industry, you know, whether it be a service provider or a uh uh product, you know, provider, what we have learned is that the best educated a customer can be, they help them make the best decision. And that's oftentimes what it comes to with marketing. Uh and you know, uh uh you own a marketing agency or you know, uh bear country marketing. We'll make sure to put a link to the uh to the uh website there. You know, if you guys go check out the show description, there'll be a link where you can click on and go and learn more about Izaak Neil and what he does. Um but yeah, there's just a there's just a lack of sometimes understanding. And I really feel like you know, that's where consultation plays a role, is you can, you know, you can help educate because I found that most people, Izaak, tell me if I'm wrong, but most people, even if they can learn your job and they can of marketing, once they realize what all it entails, they're like, I don't want to do it. I'd rather just pay someone anyway to do it. There's a lot, there's a lot to this.

Izaak Neil 6:54

Yeah. Well, and in my head, it's not just the marketing, right? And it's not just the sales, it's not just the production, it's all of it. Um and every single, you know, across the buyers, uh across the entire uh sales process, there are things that people are leaking revenue, like the companies are leaking revenue because they're not building trust on the front end. Basically, what they say is they throw up a fancy b you know picture of a building, they have a price, right, and that's it. Right? Which doesn't really tell me much about the building, so I just compare price. If I'm somebody that doesn't know anything about sheds, and three, you know, four years ago that would have been me, right? Knew nothing about sheds. If I were to come onto the lot and you were to tell me that that building was $9,000, which is the average price of you know a quality shed, you know, I'm gonna tell you to, you know, get out I'm out of here, right? Because I have no idea what this category is. When I think of a shed before I knew what sheds were, I was thinking Amazon, I was thinking shed kits, and I was thinking my neighbor next door who you know who's a who's a builder, right? And with if I price that through there through those lenses, I'm looking at a Menard's shed that's a resin shed for 500 bucks, right? I'm looking at $1,500 shed kits. I'm looking at $3,000 at the max for it with a you know a small tough shed uh or a metal shed, you know, something cheap. That's what I think of when I think sheds. But what I found when I finally, you know, you know, went through the training as a sales rep, I saw, oh my goodness, this is a this is a house. This is a how this is a this is a whole different structure. This is like a permanent structure on your property that's like built to withstand 30 years, you know, or more, depending on how good it's built. And then you know, I discovered LP siding, and I just couldn't, I was in is absolutely just blown away by LP. And like because I was in I started in pest control, funny enough, and I absolutely hate vinyl siding. I am the you know, everything about it, it cracks, it warps, it creates uh an environment for bugs. It's terrible. I can't I can't stand it. And so, but nobody knows the quality of LP. Nobody understands it. Nobody understands the quality of the shed that you're actually purchasing. That's why I kept saying, you know, hey, this is built like a house. I that was like one of my number one lines because I knew this just this it was the only way that I could describe to them that this isn't just your, you know, some lumber thrown up together. This is this is a permanent structure in your backyard to beautify your home and build and build incredible value from your house too.

Shannon 9:52

So, do you think I was just getting where I write down words matter? This is we talk about education. It sounds like a very educational segment, you know, here lately, but words matter, and like words matter in your marketing, in your in your ad copy, right? Um, so the question starts to become uh, do we have an awareness problem when we're trying to sell a shed or trying to market a shed um with the audience that we're trying to market to based off of what we're calling quality and their perception of what that is? Because most things you do look at turns up being a plastic shed whenever you Google sheds. Uh that's still a bit of a dominating market. But like you said, what we provide is something very different. I mean, what most people in this industry provide, even the lower quality sheds, end up being obviously something better than you're gonna find on like a plastic palette if you just go into a big box store. Uh there's just two different two different value propositions here. So do you think there's a an educational piece that we're missing with the ad copy and trying to reach the consumer? How do we do better?

Izaak Neil 11:03

Well, uh yeah, it's a it's a great question. Because yeah, I believe that there's a huge misalignment because what happens is when you put a fancy building with a price, people are going to compare price. When you put a fancy building with your build specs, but not just their build specs, people don't care about that stuff. People want to show me, don't tell me. Right? That's the old saying that in the film industry. Show me, don't tell me. Right? Show me what it looks like when you describe something. Show me how you build this. You know, take your camera inside the shop. That's my that's my philosophy. Take a camera inside the shop, show them, uh, show them how they're built. Then they're gonna go, oh, so this is like a tiny house. Like this is like a this is like a totally different structure. Yeah. Yeah. What we're building essentially is we're building uh I think the if I miss uh if I understand right, uh an estate is considered multiple structures on a property, right? So uh what we're building for you is essentially an estate, right? Because you've got multiple structures on one property that are these are permanent structures, buildings that will last you 30 years, not a resin plastic shed that the next tornado season it's gonna be blown over, right? Or at least you're playing that dice. So, I really do think it's it comes down to three things education, radical transparency, and expectation alignment. Um and let's just talk about the education part. If I can, you know, if customers should know should understand how things work before they buy. Instead of just showing them a finished shed, companies could explain how the floor is framed, why certain materials are used, what makes a cheap shed fail, what actually drives pricing. Because people don't understand that. They think in fact, I'll tell you a story. Um I was not only one once I became a sales rep, um, you know, I did pretty good. And so they put me into training as well because of my background in sales. And I had a guy come up to me, uh, you know, I had a uh he had built this he knew that he could build the same thing for a fraction of the cost. And that mindset's actually really common, especially with people that know what they're doing. Even people inside the industry sometimes struggle to explain pricing, right? So what I gave him, my original uh answer was well, you know, it depends on cost of materials, profit margins, labor, and you know, and we're a multi-million dollar company. But I would never give that answer anymore because it was technically right, but it doesn't explain the value because they didn't they don't understand like what goes into it. Because when you buy a shed, you're not just buying a shed, you're buying the craftsmanship of that shed, which is unquantifiable, really, right? So we slap a price on it because we figure, you know, depending you know, because of our profit margins and this, but like it's really unquantifiable, like the craftsmanship that really goes into these things. These are buildings that are meant to last, meant to withstand time. Um, so you know, uh technically it was a correct response, but it didn't help anybody understand the value. So today, so today how I'd explain is I'd tell people that if you compare this to a DIY shed or a box shed from you know from Menards uh or Amazon, then yes, they're gonna be more expensive, but that's because they're not in the same category of product. These are permanent backyard structures built more like houses than temporary box structures. Right? That's how I would explain it to a customer. That's how I'd explain it to a sales rep. And many sales reps, like I said at the beginning, still get that question of why is it priced the way that it is? And you're still gonna always get that question, right? But my goal is to eliminate that question as much as possible and have the information on the ad copy, on the on the website, on the social media videos that you put out. And then every step of the way so that by the time the customer comes in, they know exactly what category of product this is.

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Shannon 16:35

Um, most people don't understand. I say most people don't. I my experience has taught me that they don't know what 16 on center, you know, is. But whenever you can walk in there and actually explain to them why it's 16 OC and explain to them how R13 bat insulation will fit into that perfectly, and you could just, you know, staple down the edges to it. So if you know, if you're looking to uh you know uh uh uh finish this thing out or at least turn it into some kind of like, you know, uh pool house or whatever, I don't know, just uh you know, just a man cave or a she shed or whatever all the fun words are now that you know we used to sell these things, you know. Um but if you walk them in and explain that, we've been really talking heavily about uh this exploratory shed lot because we feel so disconnected sometimes from the industry. I haven't sold a shed since before COVID. And you start to get a little bit like out of your you're talking to people about something that you're like, I'm expecting it.

Izaak Neil 17:42

You know, things have changed. The market has changed a lot.

Shannon 17:44

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're so what and one of the things that we want to do is be relevant. And part of that is um, you know, we're talking about lower inventory and like highly like educating uh uh displays, you know, where you do understand that that you know R13 will fit in between there. Why do you know why do you not want you know 24 on center? Well, you can because you can get insulation that fits inside of that as well, too. But you know, this is more to your words, more like a house. You know, you're gonna see a house is gonna have 16 on centers, it's gonna have double top plates, you know, the spacing on the seams on the top plates are gonna be offset. You know, there's gonna be dead wood in the corner, you know, possibly in case you want to finish it out and butt your drywall up to it. But people want to see those things, whether you're doing a video of them when you're doing your walk around on your lot to try and pull in customers as a lead magnet, or whether are customers there in front of you, you know, like you want to uh you know, quickly get to it feels like what they want to use it for, and then showcase why this will be the best benefit versus a typical plastic question.

Izaak Neil 18:55

That's the question I always ask them right at the beginning was what are we using it for? Because if I could know that, if I could really nail that down first, everything else comes into alignment. Right. And while I was at my previous employer, I was developing marketing uh materials like you were describing and signage that would describe what these things were. Because we were noticing, I was noticing a lot that you know people would purposely go onto the lot when we were closed so that way they could see the buildings for themselves, touch, feel, taste, all of this stuff without feeling like that sales pressure, right? But I feel in my head, so so then that's why I we were trying to develop these marketing materials and signage to show off the quality and the value of the shed before you know before they talk to a sales rep. In my head, I'm hoping that those kinds of things don't necessarily have to happen, but it wouldn't resist, I wouldn't resist it. I would lean into it, you know. So depending on your shed lot, some sheds need to be locked up. I get that. But have sheds, you know, have signage that shows off what your building actually is and the features and benefits that apply to them. Because if I sell, I say 16 inches on center to a random stranger, they're gonna go, huh? Like, I'd be like, well, here's why that matters to you. Because typical structures are further and far, you know, less wood means less quality, right? Is what I would tell people, right? So less wood, less quality. You're also, you know, if you don't have that double top plate, here's what that means. That means that roof could, you know, fly off at any given moment, or it's not going to support the weight of that roof very well. You know, then you want to throw in a window there, every opening is another, you know, uh is another dent in that structure, in that structure. So if you don't have double top plates on the top, and then you know, proper framing of the windows, then the integrity of the whole entire shed is at risk. Right. And so that's what people they but they don't understand that. But when I explain it to them that way, of like, hey, I don't want you to blow have this shed blow over in the next tornado season, they understand. Because we get, you know, here in Missouri, we get a wind, really heavy winds, you know, and it's just and then you're just playing that gamble of, oh, is that shed gonna last this next season? Maybe, maybe not. But with this, you know, unless tornado directly hits it or some other debris directly hits it, it's not going anywhere. And as we've seen, as I've seen, even when they do, they just topple over, you just put them back up. Uh it's pretty amazing. Uh, incredible structures. But again, if the customer doesn't understand that, then they'll they're just gonna think it's another shed from Amazon.

Shannon 21:55

I got this saying, you know, buying cheap costs you more. And people are like, what do you mean?

Izaak Neil 22:00

Yep.

Shannon 22:00

What do you what how could it cost me more? And it's like, because you ultimately end up still buying the better product, also. So now you've bought the cheap, you know, uh uh um product, whatever it is, if it's a shed in this case, you know, and your experiences has taught you uh I didn't get the right thing. I mean, I got a good deal, but it didn't serve the purpose I need. So now I turn around and have to buy the quality shed at the right price. Uh so buying cheap actually costs you more. Uh at least it has in my life. Anytime I've tried to save, I end up going and buying the better thing anyway. Once I'm frustrated, there's very few things in which the quality like uh of buying cheaper, you know, turns out to be more beneficial. You know, there are certain things in my life that I will always pay uh quote unquote name brand pricing for, uh, because they're just it's gonna be it's gonna be worth it, you know. And uh, but how do we get that education to the customer? You know, you've got a marketing company, you know, bear country marketing, for those who want to go check it out. Um, you've been in the shed industry. Give me a little bit of I want to make sure to come back to I got two things in my mind right now. First is I want to know your journey, uh, and I'd like for the audience to sort of know a little bit about how you got to be here. Then the other question I want to ask is like, how do we because you're marketing for people in the shed industry, what you know, what's some of your best advice on not just your advice to them, uh, and how to approach their marketing needs, but even like what kind of like ad copy you should be putting out there. I'm wondering if there's some freebies, some things we can throw out there, some information we can throw out there.

Izaak Neil 23:48

Yeah, and this is information, by the way, and I'll get to that. I'll explain my journey first and then I'll talk about this. This is by you know something that you can take home and do tonight. You can essentially or go talk to your web. I'm gonna give you something today that you can go to your you can go to your uh you know, you can go on Chat GBT probably first, and then copy that and paste it and give it to your web designer to throw up on the website to help create better education and more transparency. Um and then, you know, a couple other things that you can do too uh from a Google Maps standpoint, because that's really the usually, in my experience, the first thing that people notice about you. So if, you know, so I'm always looking at the front door. What does the front door look like? If the front door doesn't look right, people won't walk in.

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Why Cheap Leads Waste Time

Izaak Neil 26:21

So, um uh my journey really started uh I would even say 10 years ago as I was you know, I've always been entrepreneurial minded, but I and I know that I needed to learn the skill of sales. And so, I went out and I sold all sorts of different things. Uh but the main thing that I got from that was communication is everything. Everything. Proper communication, proper communicating of the val the product, proper communicating of the value, of the price, and aligning the customers' needs, right? That was always on the forefront. Like that's I those are the skills that I really learned during sales. Then I saw sales and I went, you know, I'm really more of a marketer, I think. You know, I think because I'm a marketer that thinks like a sales rep. That's very different from most marketers in today's industry. I think like a sales rep. I think, okay, if I give this lead to myself tomorrow, am I gonna be happy with my marketer or I'm gonna be upset with him? Right? Because as sales reps know, they'll understand this. Like a bad, uh a bad lead could make or break your day, you know, depending on your mindset. Um, and so yeah, I'm like, okay, is this the lead I would give to myself today? That I kept asking myself that question as I started learning. So, I read a bunch, you know, I read some books, uh Dotcom Secrets. I still love that book. I don't know how much it applies to the shed industry because it's really more e-commerce, um, but expert secrets, also by Russell Brunson. Same I'd recommend that to anybody, uh, because that applies to just about anything. Uh it's really helping monetize yourself, uh, essentially. Um great books. And then I read uh several other ones, uh like marketing stories, um, you know, customer stories, raving fans. All these books kind of under I understood that that if the customer understands what they're buying before they walk into the sales lot, things are moving much smoother. Like I, you know, and uh helping people properly funnel them through a process. That's what that taught me. So, then I did all the typical marketing stuff, right? So, I came into the shed industry um as a sales rep first, which was great. I was so happy about that because it taught me on the ground, boots on the ground, exactly what these customers, exactly what objections were coming up, so then I could help overcome those objections as a marketer before they even step stepped on the lot. So that was really helpful. Um so then I became full-time marketer with my previous employer uh because they brought me on because they saw me as the skill that you know that skill. Totally redid the entire website because it was way too, way too bloated. Uh, there were so many different things, and I was like, okay, we need to narrow this down, right? When you try to sell to everybody, you really sell to nobody. You know, like who are we, you know, what's our target market? I kept saying that. What's our target market? Target market, target market. I kept honing in, and so then I did all of these things, and one of the things that we that I was successful in, that you know, that I thought was it was good at the time was uh, you know, I was part of a campaign. Uh I was part of a campaign that generated over 700 leads. Uh on paper, that sounds really incredible and a marketing success, but uh out of those 700 leads, we only sold five actual buildings from those people within a 60-day time frame. So, at first, it you know, at first it looks like a marketing failure, but the real issue was the education and trust. Right? So, I knew how to generate leads. I could do that. And by the way, I prefer generating leads on Google because they're actively searching for you. And I what I found was those leads would close at a much higher rate. Um, you'll be spending more money, but you'll be it kind of goes back to your saying buying cheap always you always end up uh buying more. It always be ends up being more expensive. I learned the same thing with Facebook leads. I'm not saying that Facebook leads are bad. Uh and I'm just saying that the campaign that we ran um didn't inform the buyer enough. Because what they were thinking was, oh, I'm gonna just fill out this form and get all this information that I don't know about already. Right. And so, then I found I very quickly found the disconnect because I was the one that was calling these leads. Right? So, I'd be calling these leads and they're yelling at me, being like, hey, I just filled out the form in the middle of the night, you know, and now you're calling me first thing in the morning. I'm not even ready for another year, you know, and I don't know how many times, countless times, I would get those that that same phone call over and over and over again. Luckily, I was a sales rep, you know, so I was able to like navigate the call. But look, I'm working uphill now, right? So when people think, oh, I just wanted information about a tiny house, that's great, but now but now I'm wasting time talking to you and explaining to you the difference between this tiny house, the shed, what you're getting, you know, what whatever it is. And so that's kind of where I came from. That frustration is where this happened, where the reason why I'm in business.

Shannon 31:54

I feel like it's because you know, you have to go back to the origin, you know, the origin of like the apps, you know, why is Google created? Like, what is the purpose of Facebook? So now if you look at, you know, of course, meta ads is you know where it's at now because of Instagram and everything. But if you if you take a look at Google and Meta, and you just say, well, if these are two of the places that we typically go and like uh you know run advertising, um, well, I mean you've got all these other search engines included, you know, Bing and uh Microsoft Edge and all these different but if we just use Google as the assumption that it has been the premier um search query location, meaning it has become so common that it's made its way into our everyday vernacular that whenever we don't know an answer to something, we say go Google it, because Google will have the information. And all Google is doing is suggesting, you know, uh 31,000 options within you know two seconds based off of your search criteria, meaning your keywords. So that that means your search query, you're actively interested in a watch. So, you're Googling the best place to find a watch. And then of course it's gonna bring you up what it believes is its best options. Social media, meta, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok is typically leisure time, it is typically a moment to unwind. It is a book of your face, it is a book of your life, right? Like that is the purpose of it. Uh uh, you know, my space was that first, you know.

Izaak Neil 33:42

Yep.

Shannon 33:42

Uh, you know, and then you you've seen so many come out since then. But the purpose of it is to scroll leisurely. And the thought on the marketing side of that, I think, is hey, I can get you in front of these people who are leisurely uh scrolling, but who have an interest or have clicked on information about sheds or information about a horse run-in or a storage barn or a carport. And then what I can do is I can bring you a bunch of those, those leads, but that's disruptive, meaning that you're disrupting their free time. They're not actually looking for a shed. They're looking at they're looking at whatever's going on in their friend's life, and then poop, up comes the ad of a four-wheeler or a shed or a motorcycle. So everyone's striving to try and get your attention even as you scroll leisurely, much like if you watch television and you get a commercial. Uh, it's disrupting the show, it's disrupting your entertainment time to say, oh, got a product for sale here, may be interested in, which is why so many people have had success in marketplace and uh local Facebook groups, is because people will just go there, not with any intention in mind a lot of times, but just scroll through just to see what's out there, and then you'll find a lead. But Google's much more intentional, or any um uh uh search query engine is really going to be much more effective. But Google obviously leads the pack, so that's why you believe that Google ads are producing a better leads because they're more intentional, I'm assuming.

Izaak Neil 35:18

Absolutely, yeah. And on average, you know, you'll be spending anywhere between um, I got them down to $25, but it wasn't always that way. Uh, it's anywhere, you know, there's people in this industry that'll tell you, oh yeah, $20 a lead. I'm like, not if you want to, you know, really narrow them down. Um, and that's what I'm all about. I'm more of a sniper approach. I really hate, you know, going through the going through the haystack to find the needle. It's exhausting. Um and that's and that's what a lot, that's what you're asking your sales reps to do when you give them a bunch of leads with these kinds of leads. When you give them a bunch of leads that of people just filling out a form so they can get more information on it, so they can look at it at a later, later date. You're sending that directly to a sales rep. Again, it's that disruptive of like, I, you know, I was hoping in good faith when I gave you my phone number that you were going to give me the information that I'm asking, that I was assuming based on the ad copy, but now you're telling me I needed an appointment. No thanks. You know, that's why people get got frustrated with me, is because I was pushing for I was pushing for an appointment when they didn't even know what a cost, they didn't even know if they could afford the building yet.

Shannon 36:35

That's even no price on it. Yeah, they didn't even wasn't even really in the ballpark of like what it what one would cost.

Izaak Neil 36:43

Yeah, exactly. And so, they're just like, hey, I'm looking at tiny houses, you know, and I'm looking up these YouTube videos telling me it's $35,000. You know, I'm like, yeah, if you do everything yourself, are you prepared to get a nail in a hammer? You know, that's that was the you know, you know, I'd have these conversations, but I was realizing how much money was the company wasting on conversations not aligned with sheds or you know, not aligned with this at all. So again, that it's trying to find that needle in the haste, going through the hay to find the find the needle. And that's you know, that's typical sales hustle culture. But I tell you, man, I would much rather talk to somebody who's excited to, you know, who's excited to know about the shed options for their situation than trying to convince somebody or persuade them into purchasing, you know, whatever it is. Like, look at all these features and benefits. But yeah, but how does that apply to me? I don't care. Or, you know, they you know, I'm wasting time, valuable time, right? Like, how much money are you wasting having your sales reps have to sift through persuading a buyer and other uh other than assisting an actual buyer?

Shannon 38:03

You know, I'm having to persuade a potential buyer because I've got them on the hook, right, long enough with the Facebook uh uh um you know ad copy that's out there, and then they fill out a lead form, maybe give you name, phone number, zip code, something along those lines. And then boom, you follow up and you're treating them like a customer who has been vetted to the point that they're almost ready to buy. And they're not. They're really not even not only not looking to buy, they're almost wondering why you're bothering them, even though they filled out information. Uh, they're like, wow, I didn't expect you to actually call me. Or, you know, I didn't need I didn't need a hard sell here. Uh whereas the people who are Googling specifically, or even 3D modelers, you know, and they you know, these are pretty, you know, they're going through the process of building their shed and what it might look like. Uh, these are much warmer leads.

Izaak Neil 38:58

Yeah. Exactly.

Creating Warmer Leads With Content

AD-LUXGUARD 39:02

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Shannon 40:30

How do you how do you get, and I think this is the audience's question? Uh I almost hear it in my ear as this episode comes out. How do you get those, Izaak? How do you focus and get those uh those serious buyers, those serious leads only? Um, even if they are $25, $50 a lead, worth it to sell a you know a shed instead of spending $50 worth of you know lead generation on you know just people scrolling mindlessly through Doom Scrolling on Facebook or something. Like, how do you target those specific warmer leads? I guess is my question.

Izaak Neil 41:10

Uh well, you know, the shed industry has incredible craftsmanship, uh, but they not fully learned how yet to show that craftsmanship online. I think that's really the key. If we can show them the craftsmanship online and do that at the beginning, in the ad copy, in your Google, uh in your Google listing maps, on your Google map listing, and uh in your Google ads and on the website. You know, these are and on your social media. Like all of these things are the front door to your company, right? Whether you like it or not. You know, you've got your physical sign, but where the most of the time before I walk out of my front door to go to someplace, I'm looking you up on Google. That's the first thing I'm doing. Right. So that right there doesn't create intrigue, education, and price transparency, I'm out. I don't I don't know, you know, like that's the first thing that I want somebody to see. Right? Why are if somebody had like, you know, you can uh Google Maps listing now has these things where you can you can put images and graphics up now. It's almost like treated like a mini social media platform, or it's like a fancy business card, essentially. Um it's a digital business card. That's what I call a Google listing, map listing. Most of the time. So many listings just show a shed and a price. Again, that's just gonna have them compare price. Instead, companies could create a short walkthrough videos explaining how the floor was built, why the roof pitch matters, what certain materials are used, why their sheds laster than their cheaper alternatives. Um, you know, gamers have this saying when they're looking at a you know, looking at a potential game they video game they want to purchase, and they say, show me the gameplay. In essentially in the shed industry, that means show me the build quality. Show it to me. Show me, don't tell me. Right? So that's a number of them thing. Whip out your camera. It doesn't have to be fancy, you don't even have to show your face. But explain to the customer as if they're a third grader why you want 16 inches on center, why a double top plate matters, why the roof pitch matters, why this is gonna last you longer than their cheaper alternatives. That's what people want. And then I'd say boost that, right? So you I always say, you know, you want to test things out organically before you ever throw money at it. I would never throw money at an ad I haven't tested with my audience yet. Right. So I always test things out first. So I'll test it out with my current audience and then see it, see if I get some response, and then I'll throw some money on it. Right. And that make that your ad. Instead of an ad being, hey, check out these new prices, $1250 for just you know, uh cabins for only for starting out at $1,300. You know, that's those kind of marketing tactics don't work. At least not with uh, you know, they don't work as well as something like whipping out your phone and saying, Hey, let me tell you three things that you need to know before you purchase a shed. See how that's different? Now that's completely changes the game. I'm not trying to sell you this shed. I'm not even telling you trying to sell you my shed necessarily. I'm just showing you things that you want to work out for. So I actually proved this um with my TikTok account. Um with my TikTok account, I I proved that this shed industry can go viral, but you have to frame it right. Instead of most shed companies, they'll go, ooh, check out this cool walkthrough. They'll take their camera out and they'll go, okay, check out this. Look, you can have a bathroom in there, and that, and that's fine. I mean, that's cool and all. But you know, those view, those videos will get you 300, you know, 300 views, a thousand views if you're lucky, right? Maybe 2,000 views. Maybe it's a really cool looking model. Maybe you'll get to 10,000 if you're lucky, right? But the number one video that I got 2.4 million views on was me whipping out my phone and saying, here's the things that you need to know before you purchase a shed for a tiny house conversion. That's the hook. And then I just went into it. You're gonna want LP sided, you're gonna want this, you're gonna want not want this, you're gonna want, if you have skids, you're gonna have to have figure out a concrete, you know, concrete education is so important. Oh my gosh. We do not do that enough in the shed industry. Like if somebody wants to, if somebody wants anything bigger than a than a 12 by 16, right? I'm like, you gotta have some sort of foundation. Concrete peers, peers are my favorite. I love peers because they're the cheaper option. And uh and you can always put skirting around it. It creates kind of like a ventilation underneath. I love peers, big fan of them, but most people don't even know what they are, right? And so uh and they're a much cheaper alternative than a concrete pad unless you're just having you know, unless you're just having your neighbor, you know, pour it. But most of the time, you know, concrete's expensive, and you want to make sure that you get it done right the first time. And proper education on that, I mean, oh my gosh, I've run into so many nightmares where they'll have some other company do the concrete.

Shannon 46:52

I we come in, we place the building on it, and now they've got to cut the concrete because it's not right and it's not level, you know, and that's probably just site prep in general, just site prep education in general, yes, probably could go a long way. And I think there's even an opportunity there for well, shed manufacturers and shed sellers to partner with their local, you know, service providers. You know, uh these are opportunities, like if you're gonna be a professional salesperson, I think what sets you aside from being an order taker and a professional shed seller is whenever you go the extra distance, you know, you have phone numbers and you learn all the how to break down all the barriers to the potential sale, you know, whether it be uh you're in an hoa area or you need to get a permit or uh where do I get site prep? You'd hate for somebody because they couldn't find a site prep to not buy a shed. And if you're okay with them not buying a shed, then I don't know why you're in that profession or if you're treating it seriously, which I think is why you often get trouble in financing, rent-to-own, repos. It's why we get all, and I'm not saying that is a blanket statement. I'm just saying it's a perfect example. You know, you talked about showing the quality. One of the things I love to uh to point out is the paint. I think I told you, you know, uh I'm segueing this straight into really what you're discussing, which is uh an educational situation, which is what my friends over uh at Pittsburgh Paint's doing. You know, we all recognize the first impression on the customer is the paint. Uh, but I want to take a moment and just give them some love. You know, yes, we're they're an exclusive paint provider uh over at Shed Geek, and we recommend them. Uh we love the rebrand that they're doing. I love the True Industrial and uh True Shed Max program because they're doing exactly what you're talking about, Izaak. They're offering local stores, local stock, local service. They're able to come in and like uh maximize your experience with your customer, maximize your experience as a manufacturer. It's why we wanted to partner with them. Uh, they've been really great to do this. The shed, the true shed max program, it's about more than paint. I promise you, it's about the customer service you're getting, the education you're getting to. So big shout out to them. Thank uh I'm just super thankful for them to be part of this. Uh, to learn more about Pittsburgh Paints, True Industrial and True Shed Max program. Get in touch with Pittsburgh Paints today. Or if you would like to get in touch with one of their representatives, we at Shed Geek will be happy to make that happen. So big fan of what they're doing, Izaak. It just is exactly what you're saying. It's educating, they're coming out to your location and like spraying a shed with you, right? It's exactly what you're talking about, which is like, hey, I can tell you about our program. I can do, but let's go out here, let's get boots on the ground. I've even offered to go out myself and throw on a uh a paint suit or whatever, and like shoot some video and like do what you're talking about, which is like, well, why should I buy Pittsburgh paint? Well, this is why they're gonna go the distance in the partner program to show you what they're talking about. So uh it's the same approach that you need to take. And you've built some of this stuff for the industry. I don't know if you're comfortable with sharing anything, but like there's you know, we're 45 minutes in. I want to make sure that you get plenty of mic time. So, you know what I mean? Like, uh, what are your what are your what are your thoughts on sharing any of that?

AD-MAKING SALES SIMPLE 50:24

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Consistent Messaging Across Every Touchpoint

Tiny House Guide To Filter Buyers

Izaak Neil 51:33

Things like that, you know. Um, I'm not necessarily obviously not sponsored, but like those when companies do that, that's the educating. If you can educate your sales rep, then they will educate the customer better. And in my head, as an owner, I think it's good to educate too. So if they see you at the forefront, then when they go talk to a sales rep, the messaging is the same. No matter they go on the website, whether they go onto the Google listing, whether they go onto the ads copy, whether they go onto your video that you shared. I want that all that messaging to be the exact or to be similar, right? The same overall theme. This is a structure, permanent structure that's going to be in your home for the next, you know, in your backyard for the next 30 years. That same understanding and why they're priced the way that they are, right? Not just some shed that you buy at Home Depot. If you can put that all along the whole sales process, then by the time they go into the sale, it's basically a formality, right? Then they can go dive into as a sales rep. I loved it when customers asked me, hey, what size do I need for my situation? What colors do you suggest? Can you match my house? What, you know, how you know, where would you suggest putting this in my backyard to make it the look the prettiest? Customer, these are customer problems that are super overwhelming. Super overwhelming. And that's what a cut that's what a good sales rep should have to do. Not have to persuade them and convince them that the price is justified. That's the last thing I want a sales rep to do. So, the bet so here's an example of uh I'll take you through to an example of what I've built to help build that education. Because I, as many people, you know, a lot of sales reps are getting right now the question about tiny houses. A lot of sales reps are getting very frustrated at this because they're waste, they feel like they're wasting their time. And when they feel like they're wasting their time, they're gonna go somewhere else. Right. And I just I don't that and I've seen it happen way too many times where a suck sales reps gets burnt out because they're trying to sell all of these tiny house guys, and they just don't, they don't, they just they're not builders, they're sales reps, right? So, they're not designers, and so they just get they get suit, they get over super overwhelmed, the customer gets overwhelmed, and by the time they make the sale, they're like, wait a minute, I made $10 an hour, right? Because I spent so much time with them, and now their commission check doesn't look so nice anymore. Uh so that it's understandable, right? Because we're trying to, you know, a sales rep, a shed sales rep shouldn't be sitting there trying to design a house, right? They're gonna get burnt out, and then it's costing you money as the owner because now you're having to replace that person. It costs way more money to replace a person than to keep somebody on.

Shannon 54:39

We all know retention. Yes, sir.

Izaak Neil 54:43

So that's how do you get sales reps to not burn out? Well, let me show you something. Instead of having trying to convince them of like what the shiny, you know, you can sell to these tiny house guys, but they have to understand some things before they buy a shed, right? So that's why I created the 14 by 40 price uh shed to home conversion cost guide. Let's go on this. So if you're just listening in, I'll try to explain it best as possible. Um, but uh luckily, uh hopefully you're watching it so you can you actually kind of see it too. So maybe you can go back and watch the recording and check it out. But check this out. So you've got um a one-bedroom, one bath, 14 by 40 shed to home conversion cost guide, right? So what this does is it helps educate the customer on what they need to do way before they ever have to, you know, look at buying an actual shed for this project, right? So here's roughly, and it shows you the cost right up front. Here's the rough estimate costs, it's anywhere between 23,000 and 48,000 for your DIY finish out. That's very specific distinction, right? And then if you're hiring it out, it's gonna be anywhere between 66 and 98,000. That these are just these are what customers want to know before they ever uh you know, before we ever do this. Uh, unfortunately, what happens is oftentimes as a sales rep myself, what I would do is I would design a whole, you know, I would design, here's where the windows are gonna go. Where do you want the doors? Where do you want this? And they didn't even know if they could afford it. Because in my their head, they're thinking, yeah, we can do this for 20 grand.

Shannon 56:28

Yeah, we can do that. Or less, you know, and less case. Yeah.

Izaak Neil 56:32

Yeah, this is this is finally my dream of not being able to buy a house has finally come true. I can afford 20,000, I can convince a bank, right? Unfortunately, that is not the case, right? Because most banks won't finance something like this. They can if you show them the proper paperwork, if you show them how they're built, but it's not gonna be easy, right? So, anyway, this is why I developed this, so that I could eliminate all of those customers that were tiny house tire kickers or tiny house window shoppers. This eliminates 90% of those because I show them this is what it's gonna cost you right on the front page, and then I break it down, right? So let's go to the second page. So you've got uh this is just a basic floor plan for a one-bedroom, one bath, 14 by 40. This is what it would look like. You know, you saw the floor plan at the beginning. This is the shell price. You're gonna be spending anywhere between 13 and 22,000 just on the shell alone, right? And then here's your gonna be your DIY finish out costs um and such. So when you're going through these uh different, when you're going through these different things, you'll find uh then then it gives you a whole price breakdown right here. So okay, so like this is what it would cost you fully turn, you know, fully turnkey, because people will ask every single time these sales reps will ask, I mean, sorry, the customer will ask, hey, so uh can you finish these out? Like, well, no, but here's approximately what it's gonna cost you. And as you said, good sales reps will create um good sales reps will actually yeah, well, yeah, we'll give you those options. Here's a contractor I know, here's a window guy I know, here's a painter I know, you know. Uh so then this breaks it down right here. And exactly, you know, it's not gonna be perfect, but it gives them averages, gives them price ranges. If you can do this exact same thing on the website, again, you're eliminating 90% of those tire kickers. So uh this is just one example of something of things that I do in order to create uh in order to narrow down and create better leads.

Pattern Recognition Parenting And Trust

Shannon 58:50

And I would even say for those that are jumping into actual tiny homes, of course, you have the whole rent to own, finance, like have to have that conversation. But for those who are paying, purchasing outright or whatever, and DIYing this thing theirself, a lot of times, um gosh, just that education would just go a long way. That initial education early on would just uh uh uh help stop a lot of the time-wasting adventures that you're on and get back to what Charles Hutchins says, you know, money-making activities, you know, and you can get back to like focusing on things that actually matter. Um, I remember I would educate, I always felt like it was never my responsibility in some ways. It was like I'm I mean, I'm becoming a financial advisor for them, but then I'm also becoming more than a financial advisor. I'm almost becoming, you know, project manager for them, depending on how deep they're going into this project. And then you do, you really have to like wrestle with how much of is that time worth for the sale? Like, how long should the customer purchase acquisition be? Like, what is it normally in the shed space? Um, you know, if you're building a house with someone, you got to spend months with them planning the doors, planning where you're gonna put the range hood at, where you're gonna put the are the doors gonna be in swing or out swing or whatever. Like you go through some of those details with uh a shed buyer, but generally speaking, they're buying a storage unit in most cases, so you can get through it pretty quickly, but you've got to figure out how to like maximize your time to get to what matters. In other words, that's kind of what we're saying here today, is like, you know, in many ways, is like getting to what matters uh quickly. I don't know, dude. I love it. I love uh I love what you built. I love everything about you know uh getting to know you and uh getting to know you further. Uh hopefully, well, you had you just had a new baby. Tell me a little bit about Izaak before we get out of here. Who is Izaak? I know you just had a baby and you're supposed to come over next week, so we can't wait to meet you in person. But who are you to the audience just a little bit more? What's your personal life look like?

Izaak Neil 1:01:02

Uh I'm very much uh, you know, I'm a family guy. Uh very much uh uh you know, I apply a lot of these same principles to my personal life as well. If I can give reasons to why I'm asking my child to do something, things move over a lot sooner. I mean my and she's only two and a half. Okay, she understands a lot more than I let her give her credit for. You know, if I can explain to her, even if she doesn't fully understand, she'll understand the energy of that I'm you know what I'm trying to say. Like, no, I don't want you to touch the stove. I don't want you to be next to the stove, so you're tempted to touch it. You know, like they these are basic things that uh that I also apply to my parenting too. So um, you know, I come from a background of being, you know, just do as I say, not as I do. I come from a background of okay, just you know, just do it because I say the number one problem uh the number one problem in this country is uh the trust me bro problem. It's building trust. Trust me, bro, it's gonna work out. Trust me, bro, it's gonna work out. You know, like whatever it is, whether it's the government telling you that, whether it's companies telling you that, just trust me, it'll be okay. No, I want you to show me. Show me why. And then and then you know, so then there's not a problem. And so that that's exactly the in in my personal life as well, is I try to apply that same principle. If I'm or I'll do it to myself with self-management of like, is this thing the really the most important thing to do today? Like, why am I so hyper fixated? Am I am I doing this because somebody told me I needed to do this? Or is it because or is it because I truly want to do it and I know that this is going to be my money-making things?

Shannon 1:03:03

I'm picking up on a few on a few keywords here at communication, Izaak, and I can gladly edit this out, but uh am I picking up on some ADHD qualities in there somewhere?

Izaak Neil 1:03:16

No, you don't need to edit that out at all. No, I'm a pattern, I'm a pattern recognizer. I tell people all the time I'm very dyslexic as well. I but what that what that gives me is instead of you know, I've been trying to look at it a little bit better, uh, people see it as a learning disability. I see it as I can see things that you're not seeing. Right? If I look at a words at a page, yeah, I'm gonna get them jumbled up. I'm gonna suck at spelling. But here's what I can do, right? If I look at your business and I can see your sales process, I'm gonna see things that you haven't seen before. I'm gonna notice things that you have never seen noticed before. Hey, did you notice that this ad copy is not, you know, some people are saying this about it? Or did you notice that your sales reps are saying this, you know, when you're not looking? You know, things like have you noticed that you know this sales rep could have been, you know, is explaining your cut, you know, your product wrong simply because they haven't walked through the building with the customer yet? You know, just little things that really bleed revenue. You know, the a lot of these things that you just you can't quantify. There's so many things that like companies lose so much money along the sales process, whether it's having to try hire a new sales rep, um, you know, people not responding to your text messages or phone calls, uh, or you know, people exiting your website because there's no prices. Right? Like that that creates these walls because I don't know about you, but we I don't know about you, but I've been marketed to far too much in my life. How many ads per day do I see? Our brain starts to just block them out. You know, we'll be scrolling on Facebook. I don't even see the ads anymore. You know why? Because I because I know which ones are ads and which ones aren't. So, you go back to your question of like what you can do tonight for your ad copy. Look at your look at your ad and say, does it look like an ad or does it look like an information piece? I gotta tell you, where there's tonight and be like, nope, not this ad, not this ad. Oh, you might have to redo your whole ad spin. But it's something to consider.

Shannon 1:05:32

Where there's ADHD, there's entrepreneurship, I promise you. And like because of things like that, the pattern recognition, I love that. You know, me personally, uh highly, you know, uh, you know, love to tap into emotional intelligence and uh body language and all the stuff. Communication is one of the things that means so much to me. And I love that in the sales process because those uh words are the best thing that we've found a way to communicate with each other. uh through that education system using words. But I think that there's a far greater uh sometimes language that's being spoken than the words we speak. And that's often what's being said in the body. And like you can, you know, like tapping into those things as a sales manager, the human qual uh qualities we have, the five senses we have, being able to use those to set a stage, uh, not to set a hook and not to try and like bamboozle people in the shed uh selling space or any selling space.

Izaak Neil 1:06:28

If they're educated properly.

Shannon 1:06:30

That's right. That's right. And look, still working on it ourselves, getting better. Man, you know, we've ran an hour through really quick. And I like I tell everybody, it goes way faster than anybody ever realized. While you're talking uh it's just good conversation with people who are in this space trying to do things uh similar to what we're doing, you know, helping people I love that you've uh I love that you've uh you know ventured into this found your way into this space. I mean I know a little bit more about your story landing in Missouri coming from Utah maybe we can do an episode two we'll get some more of that stuff in there or whatever.

Izaak Neil 1:07:08

I've got some great stories to tell I'm sure I'm sure and I'm certainly looking forward to meeting you know congratulations on your on your newest uh uh member of the family being born there and I'm excited to get to know you more as we continue to uh explore these things in the shed space I it's just been great knowing you so far I love the content that you're putting out on Facebook I see a lot of it on your personal page but some of it floats through the shed sales professionals page yeah man I love it I love it I feel like an educated you know consumer can do so much more and uh and uh we're just growing up we're maturing in the shed industry as they say so uh Izaak I can't say enough uh any final thoughts that you have to give any shout outs any just uh just any final words of wisdom from Izaack Neil uh well uh one thing that I would say is that the goal of marketing should not to be generating more leads the goal should be creating more informed buyers and I think that's definitely the theme of this and if you want to learn more about what I can do for you and your company to be able to do that to create more informed buyers you know I've got I I've been a I've been at every point of this sales process whether it was the fr the face of the company at times and then into the marketing uh the business development rep calling these leads and closing them I've been at every single point of this uh of this process and even had some customer service calls you know that can also be a thing like you're gonna have lots less customer service calls when you create and more informed buyers because they feel good about the about their purchase they should never feel bad about their purchase then that's not really a sale worth having so if you want to learn more about like how this can work you can obviously follow me on Facebook Izaak Neil but also check out my website uh what I'm doing if you want to potentially work with me you know I'm pretty selective on who I work with um but uh you know I the door is open right now uh uh on that so you can go to bearcountry marketing. com fill out the form apply uh see what we can do and uh see how we can help you we'll make sure to put a link uh on the description uh with the thumbnail so if you just click on the thumbnail in the newsletter you'll be able to go to bear country marketing and learn more if you need to be put in touch with someone and you're not sure how to just contact me I'm happy to we are uh working on you know professional collaboration here and that's why the consultation for us has been so important is because you know we're using that as an educational piece to be able to help you know and you know sometimes we find that you know sending them to someone else best fits their needs it's not always us that best fits their needs and I think that's just the transparency you talked about you know being able to do being a team player too being a team player just you know wanting to see good for the industry as a in general and good for companies who trust us reach out to us and listen to us because you've already alluded to this trust me bro is so simply used uh we want to actually say trust me and then you can you can trust us like based off our based off our experience yeah based on the experience and the results that I can provide yep that's right that's right it's what we're aiming for.

Shannon 1:10:39

That's what 2026 is all about Izaak I can't say enough uh good things uh about you it's been just a pleasure getting to know you and I look forward to many more conversations sir thank you for being a guest today.

Izaak Neil 1:10:50

Absolutely

OUTRO 1:10:51

thanks again shed pro for being the Shed Geek's studio sponsor if you need any more information about Shed Pro or about Shed Geek just reach out you can reach us by email at info@ shedgeek.com or just go to our website www.shedgeek.com and submit a form with your information and we'll be in contact right away thank you again for listening as always to today's episode of the Shed Geek Podcast thank you and have a blessed day