Weeds AR Wild S5, Ep4: Escaped Winter Weeds and Early Season Weed Control (4/30/25)

In this episode of the Weeds AR Wild podcast, Drs. Tom Barber, Bob Scott and Jason Norsworthy discuss options for escaped winter weeds and early season control of sedges and barnyardgrass in rice.

Transcript

[00:00] Intro/Outro

Arkansas Row Crops Radio, providing up to date information and timely recommendations on row crop production in Arkansas.

[00:11] Tom Barber

Welcome to the Weeds AR Wild podcast series as a part of Arkansas Row Crops Radio. Hi, my name is Tom Barber. I'm an extension weed scientist for the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture. Today I'm here with my co-host and fellow weed scientist doctors, Bob Scott and Jason Norsworthy. Good morning fellows. How are we doing?

[00:33] Bob Scott

Morning, Tom. Good to see you.

[00:35] Jason Norsworthy

Great to talk with you, Tom.

[00:36] Tom Barber

Yeah, yeah, it's nice day to do a podcast. So we're here. Here we are at the end of April. April 30th. Fixing to start a new month. This month has just completely flown by. I know all of us have tried to get plots in and are busy answering phone calls and and I think just to get the ball rolling today. Let's start off with some of the hot topics we're getting, over the phone or over text.

[01:03] Bob Scott

Man, the phone blew up actually, today. I mean, just this morning, I think I was on it for two hours because it's one of them days where you get a call and while you're returning, that when you get two more and a text. And it's been some, some tough calls, Tom, as you know, they don't call you the easy stuff anymore, but it's been white margin sedge it's been, you know, barnyard grass already up. Rice is small. And then then just a lot of hodgepodge of weird weeds, you know?

[01:37] Tom Barber

Yeah. I think, you know, the old saying is no years the same, I guess. And every year is different. And we don't know what an average year is, but, this one's been particularly difficult start. We thought we had a good start, and then we had all this rainfall and lost our residuals and got some weird weeds coming up that we're not used to battling, I think. And so…

[02:01] Bob Scott

Already I've already had some consultants that have complained and have said, we're paying for the easy year we had last year because, you know, it just we got a little bit of rain. And then we got some more rain and some more rain and, you know, a pint of command alone looked pretty good last year. For four weeks, it seemed like, I mean, just all the residual stuff worked. This year it all got washed away, I think. And, and then it turned dry for a lot of guys. So yeah, it's not last year, you know.

[02:32] Tom Barber

Well, and I think, you know, we talk about the weird weeds and, and some calls that we're getting. And I know, Jason, you were up at Keiser this past week and talking about all the ryegrass that you saw driving up, you know, around up there in northeast Arkansas. And, you know, to me, there's I thought we was in a better spot, I guess with the ryegrass and a lot of residual going, I, I think some did do the residual, but I'll tell you this ryegrass has a, seems like anymore, it's got a real wide range of emergence, and we're dealing with more flushes than we ever have. Probably.

[03:09] Jason Norsworthy

No, we are, Tom. And as you mentioned, like I said it's, it's an issue that north of I-40, if I go back 3 or 4 years ago, I just did not recall seeing ryegrass north of 40. And there's very few fields that I can go in north of 40 now and not see ryegrass or ryegrass on the edge of the field. And, you know, I think moving forward, if an individual isn't going to treat an entire field, at least I was talking to a grower the other day, and the comment was that we need to at least make a pass or two around the edge of the field where this ryegrass is coming in, and, and try to cut it off before it just basically inundates the entire field. And, you know, the the thing that the, the program that I've seen the greatest success with is command and valor or clomazone, flumioxazin product down in the fall. When I look at our plots, those plots are still clean. You know, when I was, I was in I was talking with Mike Deering at the research station there at Keiser last week, and he was talking about the fact that he actually followed my recommendation. I think he said, you spoke to you and had made the you'd made the same recommendation. And the only areas up there at that research station that aren't clean or my weed science plots, that were not sprayed last fall. Other than that, there's ryegrass everywhere.

[04:33] Tom Barber

Yeah, I really like that combination. I know a lot have used the the dual valor in the past, but, the command really adds a whole nother level. The clomazone really does add a whole nother level, to winter weed control. I think most of the calls I got or have gotten lately, in these areas, this new super pepper weed is what I'm calling it. I, I don't know a better name for it. I don't it doesn't look like Virginia pepper weed. To me, it looks like pepper weed on steroids, but, and may weed, may weed has just been absolutely terrible this year. And, and I think most of this may weed we're spraying is probably ALS resistant, and we're missing it, a lot. 

[05:21] Bob Scott

I'm glad you mentioned that, because you know that ALS resistant may weed used to be in the olden times. It was around that Brinkley area, Monroe County, kind of there on the prairie. But we've got trials in Jackson County this year where we had it probably about 50% of our May weed on the station. The ALS chemistry didn't didn't kill it. It still worked on some of it, but you could tell it was in there. And then I had calls from northeast Arkansas where it wasn't working either. So I think that's becoming a or has become a statewide problem.

[05:58] Tom Barber

And, you know, that's just one of those where it's it's not easy. That was the easy control. That was the easy button for my weed was the ALS. And now if we go to PPOs, I mean we're we have some activity with Reviton. We have activity with sharpen, but it seems to grow back. I mean, we'll burn it back, but then it just comes back. So unless we have something like a, 2,4-D you know, we plan ahead enough to have a 2,4-D in there as a three rate combination with roundup, you know, 2,4-D and one of those PPOs, we're really not doing a great job. And then we're, we've been burning it down and it it keeps coming back. So that's been difficult. I'm getting a ton of horse weed or mare's tail calls right now whether it's in corn. I know, Bob, we talked about it in rice this morning. You know, just again, some of these winter annuals are making a comeback, and a lot of it probably has to do with the, the spring we've had, you know, a warm early and the fluctuation in temperature and the amount of rainfall and, and, I don't know, what are we thinking about horse weed in a young rice crop?

[07:12] Bob Scott

So that I was going to say that's the other problem you have is a lot of this rice is 1 to 2 leaf. And so some of the things you might think about spraying, it's, the rice is too small to spray. The bad thing, these weeds, you know, all of the weeds we just mentioned, the weird weeds, the winter stuff. They will not be there at harvest. By then they'll be gone. But I think Jason Bond is doing enough work with ryegrass in rice. We know there's an impact on yield. If you don't do something with it. And so it just kind of depends on how thick it is. I've asked guys, well, what's the population like if it's, scattered population, if they're not, if they're able to get a rice stand, I mean, you can throw good money after these big old weeds trying to have some activity on them. And you're not going to you're not going to kill them. I think on this one horse weed field that we talked about, I think we ended up we're going to try Loyant and we talked about it sharpen as an option. But I think that would just burn the top out of it. It does happen to be a Clearfield field. I don't think we have a lot of ALS resistant horse weed. It's going to be a slow death. But again, I think by harvest and even though it's row rice, that’s another thing, normally a flood would take care of all these things, eventually. But, we have a lot of row rice now, so that kind of complicates matters. But I think when you follow that particular field with a couple of shots of new path, in Clearfield it's probably going to be clean. Eventually. But but those weeds are out there trying to live and trying to compete. And so you can't convince me they won't affect yield on that small rice a little bit. So I'm with Jason on all these weeds, everything that had a fall residual just looked better. I think we're having a harder time making our burndown with 2,4-D or dicamba with the plant back interval, you know, to to rice. And I notice we came up on that really fast this year. And so a lot of these fields did not get that in the burndown. And if you missed your opportunity to use Gramoxone and you've got one leaf rice, there just really aren't any good options for these big old hardened off, mature weeds, you know.

[09:30] Tom Barber

Well, it looks like it's like this pep, what we're calling this pepper weed and the seed head looks like Virginia pepper weed. But the plant to me does not look like a standard Virginia pepper weed. So we might have some different bowel types out there, I don't know. Or different species.

[09:46] Bob Scott

Pepper weed on steroids.

[09:48] Tom Barber

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just it's huge and and we just I just know by looking at the pictures we're not going to kill it with everything but or anything, but, you know, we made some recommendations or I did on some of it that was, not quite that big, probably 6 to 8in tall. And and, I mean, everything was a miss. Basically, at the end of the day, paraquat and a PSII was a miss. You know, I'm not that I'm a great weed scientist. I'm really starting to doubt my abilities to control this particular weed. For sure. I just don't know that we have a good option when it gets that big. So, just for some backup, I called Doctor Bond over at Mississippi State first thing this morning, and. And, he made me feel a little bit better because they they've got a graduate student working on this problem, and they're having a hard time finding anything to kill it once it gets bolted. Good. So, it looks like when it's small, a paraquat plus a sharpen or Reviton. These hotter PPO herbicides has worked okay. Once it's bolted, we're not killing it with anything. They haven't found anything to be a silver bullet either. So it's going to be something we either bush hog or live with. I think, at the end of the day this year and hopefully plan to hit it a little earlier next year. And one thing we did talk about, though, was we're wondering if because we it's predominantly in like I-40 South. So it's in southeast Arkansas. We had a issue around the Marianna area, made a big loop through southeast Arkansas yesterday, and there's a lot of fields with it in it, scattered populations. But and a lot of these use the fall residuals. So, you know, we're thinking that because the fall residuals out there, you don't see a lot in the field. It's pretty much clean from the road. But we've got these pepper weed plants out there in the rosette stage that are small and harmless until they start bolting. And then we're too late. And so I think that's one, you know, I'm a big, huge proponent for fall residuals. I'm not saying that. But we need to make sure if we've got this pepper weed in the field that we do a timely burn down still in the spring to get that, even though we might not have ryegrass or henbit or anything else out there. So, anyway, Jason, any thoughts on that?

[12:15] Jason Norsworthy

Well, I mean, I agree with you. I mean, a timely application. And, you know, one thing it'd be good to know, especially considering this ryegrass, if we're going to recommend command and we're going to recommend valor on those acres is I'd like to know, what, what's clomazone bringing, if anything, to that, to that pepper weed. But, you know, back to just making that clomazone. I'm just I was talking to a grower the other day, and we were talking about how how good looking his ground was, where he had actually used clomazone and flumi in the fall. And he made the comment to me, and I think this is very important to our listeners to to hear is, he said, the money that he typically has spent for fall burn down. He's just taken that money and shifted it to his spring burn down for spring burn down. He shifted it over to fall, burn down. And he said, at the end of the day, it's costing him less overall money to go into that crop. And he said he's a lot cleaner going into that crop than having to try to deal with this ryegrass, deal with these other weeds that we're talking about. At the time of planning.

[13:21] Tom Barber

Yeah. And especially in a year, I believe that 100%. But a year like this, if we weren't able to, if we had some fields, we didn't do fall, burn down or fall tillage or we're not able to get to, to do tillage before all this heavy rain. I mean, I've got fields in Newport right now that I mean, we'll have to disk twice to get under control because we had all the rain and we missed it. And it's come through all the rain now. And, you know, with the wind and the rain and the witness, we can't get in there to spray. So they’re messes right now.

[13:50] Jason Norsworthy

Oh I've got I'm sitting here getting ready to, once it gets dry enough that cars or any other places of the state, even even here and here in Fayetteville, I have, I have fields that have ten inch, 12 inch weeds in them that I was hoping to plant three weeks ago and four weeks ago and get in front of this, and unfortunately, it's rained and now the weeds are ahead of me. And that's that's not a situation you want to be in, at least from a grower standpoint.

[14:17] Tom Barber

Right. Especially at May 1st when we don't know how much rain we're going to get from here on out, and we don't want to work all the moisture out of the ground. So so I think there's, you know, there's a lot of benefits. Some we haven't even mentioned probably. But that that's a lot of good points other than just rye grass control for these for these fall residuals. All right. Do we want to hammer anything else on these winter weeds.

[14:38] Jason Norsworthy

I think that's good Tom. You know another one that Bob mentioned here that I'd like to move on to, you know, sedges. I've gotten phone call after phone call after phone call on sedges. yellow nut sedge, rice flat sedge. What margin sedge. Here's what I've got. How am I going to deal with it? What should have done differently. And, it's just it's crazy. And I think part of that has to do with just the fact that we've been, I think, abnormally wet in some areas this spring that has really given these sedges an opportunity to get out in front of, this rice, I've got guys that are getting ready to plant rice and they've got sedges up each two inches tall and, they're wanting to plant rice and what are they going to do at that point? And so I've really kind of looked at this and I asked folks, first of all, what what are you dealing with? Are you dealing with Yellow Nut Sedge or you're dealing with Rice Flat sedge or what we call annual sedge? Or are you dealing with white margin sedge? And if it's yellow nut sedge, I really like to see Gambit in front of that, ounce and a half a gambit if I'm on a silt loam soil, it really provides a lot of residual on yellow nut said, you've got league I guess also out there that would be, be an option, you know, with both of those products. I'm also going to pick up some hemp sesbania. My experience is being if you've got sedge, you're probably going to have some hemp sesbania on that acre at some point. If I run an ounce and a half of Gambit, but it's going to carry me over into that crop, it can provide me some residual, once that rice is up, the same with the same as with League. The problem we run into is if you have Rice Flat Sedge, or you have white margin sedge, I've yet to find a white margin sedge population that I could kill with Gambit. And that's I think that's pre-emergence as well, I know is pre-emergent as well as post emergence. And the same with Rice flat sedge from the sense that I'd tell you that probably 60-70% of what's out there today is, resistant. So if I have if I have Rice flat sedge, I'm recommending that folks start with something like sharpen three ounces of sharpen if they know they're going to have some coffee bean in there, either they can put the gambit up front with that sharpened, or they can come back later with the gambit and try to control that coffee bean, later, but sharpens my go to if I have annual sedge. If it's yellow nut sedge Gambit is my go to. I'd be interested to know what you guys think about that.

[17:19] Tom Barber

Well, I you know, from my standpoint, I agree with, you know, I have those plots down at Rohwer. We use the gambit quite a bit because I have a bad population of coffee bean, hemp sesbania down there, the sharpen is just not going to help me near as much on that population as the gambit does. So I'm I'm putting the sharpen gambit combination out if it's a test where I just want to focus on grass, you know, that's what I use for that reason. And, you know, Gambit is one of the only things that I found that provides pretty good activity with with Coffee Bean during the season, even. And so, I think there's, there's a lot of, a lot of benefits with that. And for those, you know, I just it just occurred to me, I don't know if everybody knows what what gambit is. So let's just take a quick break and talk about it. So Gambit is a combination of Permit and a herbicide called peak that used to be predominantly registered in corn. Correct?

[18:20] Jason Norsworthy

That is correct.

[18:21] Tom Barber

Yeah. So, you get a broadleaf with that. But to your point, of the majority of our annual sedge population or white margins sedge or umbrella sedge that we have some populations of that in southeast Arkansas, we're not not going to do a good job on it.

[18:39] Jason Norsworthy

Well, and, and also along those lines, I mean, when you're talking white margin and you're talking annual sedge or flat sedge. I have a student that's actually working on a project centered around those. And as of now, we've yet to be able to just visually look at those plants and distinguish white margins sedge from, from annual sedge, or rice flat sedge is not, until they get to six inches or larger and I say six inches and I'm being pretty, it's probably larger than six inches that you can start seeing that kind of white appearance to that margin. Sedge. Other than that, you're having to tear the plants and get that cedar smell, pine smell. If it has a cedar smell, pine smell to it, it's going to be rice flat sedge. Otherwise it's what margin sedge. But we've been doing some work looking at control post emergence control options and in terms of the Rice flat sedge, I'm dealing with ALS resistant rice flat sedge and Loyant appears to be a very, very good option. I've said that time and time again that Loyant is a is a good option. Propanil plus basagran, I'll recommend that for Rice flat sedge control. And then when we look at what margin sedge, we've had our best luck with looking at Loyant and just basagran. Propanil by itself hasn't looked very well. And at this point I haven't had an opportunity to look at tank mixtures. But basagran and Loyant by far the best to if I've got two inch, three inch, white margin sedge. We've had very, very good luck with those. And so I guess the beauty of this is if you really think about Rice Flat Sedge and you think about white margin sedge the herbicides that we're using to control both those appear to be, quite effective on each of them.

[20:32] Bob Scott

Yeah. I was going to I was going to mention Jason, I agree with you on your recommendations. And I've leaned on you guys a lot on white margin sedge, because, that wasn't a problem before I went into administration, and now it's y'all let it become a problem while I was gone, I guess. 

[20:51] Tom Barber

I blame Tommy. He's not here anymore, we’ll blame him.

[20:53] Bob Scott

Yeah, it was Tommy's fault. So the, I will tell everybody that's listening. If they're looking in the MP44 white margin sedge ratings, those are a work in progress, and I think we're close on our numbers. I think a lot of the white margin sedge recommendations are based on ALS sedge and and some of the recommendations we were making previously. And so I'm glad that, Jason, that you've done that work. I think we need to take a hard look at those numbers and, and update that thing this fall when we when we get all the data in from this year because, I don't think they're far off, but I think we could put a nuance on those a little bit. And the other thing I'll say is that, you know, a lot of guys have called and said, this white margin sedge is becoming their most important weed above barnyard grass and other, other problems, like they're having trouble or just resistant sedges in general. But one thing I've noticed, I'll ask him what was your residual program? And it was command, you know, and I'm like, well, if you know, the sedge is going to be a problem, you need to at least be putting Gambit with it that, like Tom, like you said, that's the only way you can get prosulfuryon rice is in the gambit. I think unless somebody else has come out with that product as a as a mix. And then also if you look at the white margin sedge ratings, something with Bolero in it, Jason and we've got that rated pretty high. So it may be that we need to start planning our Sedge program the way we do our barnyard grass programs, and that's a residual followed by post.

[22:34] Jason Norsworthy

I'll tell you this, Bob, we we underutilize Bolero, here in this state, continue to say that and, realize that's a higher priced product. But when I look at barnyard grass, we, as of today, I haven't found any. Now there's some rumblings that we might have some. And I'm not going to say that you may hear me next year sit here and tell you that I have bolero resistant barnyard grass. But overall, the bolero is very effective on barnyard grass, and it's going to provide a tremendous amount of Rice flat sedge and I think probably what margins sedge. Control. So it's, it's a herbicide. We need to be integrating more into these systems.

[23:14] Bob Scott

And I agree, Jason, and we've got it rated in a pre. And I'll point out I had a couple people said, well I'm just going to use Ricebo early post, but in the propanil bolero post we've got that rated like a five. So the the real value of it is in the pre. It looks to me like

[23:34] Jason Norsworthy

Well that's for the…

[23:35] Bob Scott

White margin. But now you need to do your research.

[23:37] Jason Norsworthy

Yeah. So here's what I'm going to tell you on that, Bob. I mean, I can tell you for a fact, I'm sitting here looking at the data and, propanil, white margin sedge, let me pull it up here. Propanil provided 50% control of white margin sedge is what the data says. Boleros not providing any post emergency control. And so hence you've got a five sitting there. So, yeah, you really have to have something that's going to take it down. Ricebo is not going to take it down.

[24:08] Tom Barber

So is there any instances in any of these fields? I mean, whether we're talking about soil type, pH or anything, is there any reason if we know we have a sedge problem that we're not putting out Bolero delayed pre, give me a reason why not to do that.

[24:26] Jason Norsworthy

The only reason someone to come back and tell me is they'll say cost. Or they'll say they had difficulty finding it. And which I think that now that there's some, there's generic thiobencarb out there, I'm hoping that this less and less of an issue.

[24:43] Tom Barber

Well, I guess the reason I bring that up is because, I've walked several of these bad annual sedge fields up the white margin sedge, I know Tommy and Jason. You have focused a lot on that, and I don't have a lot of, a lot of that in the areas where we actually do, research. But I, I have walked a ton of these annual sedge zero grade fields there. By the time we get to the post on the annual sedge, it's so thick, there is no way I'm getting it all with one application. No way, from a post standpoint. So at the very least, we ought to be, I mean, automatically, whether we're delayed pre or as soon as that rice is up or whatever, we need to be getting the Bolero out there, if nothing else, just to cut down the population where we could get it all out with a single post app.

[25:34] Jason Norsworthy

Well, and it's just it's gotten worse. And Bob, you've already said this, but I will reiterate command has no activity, and it's interesting. You know, I came back to Arkansas in 2007 and we did a we did a weed management survey that year. And the sedges I think the sedges were 18, 19/20. I mean, they weren't even on the radar in 2007. But you've got a think 2000 is when we really started adopting clomazone and we pushed forward since then, came back five years, six years later, did another survey. And all of a sudden now the sedges are 10th or 11th. The last survey we did, which was five years ago, the sedges as a whole were second overall. I'm telling you right now, I'm getting just as many calls on sedges these days as I'm getting on barnyard grass.

[26:27] Tom Barber

Now, I agree, and I and I think there's also maybe a misunderstanding out there that if they're going out with, new path plus command as a pre or, preface and command as a pre on these acres that that's helping them on the annual sedge and the yellow. And it might be helping them on the yellow, but.

[26:52] Jason Norsworthy

It's not touching the, it's not touching this rice flat sedge is white margin sedge.

[26:57] Tom Barber

I don't, yeah, right

[26:58] Jason Norsworthy

It’s not touching it

[27:00] Tom Barber

There’s still a little misunderstanding about that out there. Maybe. So maybe we can clear that up right now. So.

[27:08] Bob Scott

Hey, Tom, before we move off of the sedges, I would mention, a couple of other products later in the season to consider. And Jason can comment on this, but rogue post-flood for the flat sedge, I think is is an option. There as a lay by, and I would also just mention 2,4-D mid-season for those guys that can do it. Even with white margin sedge, I think we've got it right about a seven. To me, this is kind of a salvage deal. This is like late in the year. There's been a lot of competition. You've probably lost some yield. But, you know, that might be a final follow up type treatment. One of those or, you know, for, for sedges or anything else later, Jason, they need to be thinking about.

[27:57] Jason Norsworthy

I think you hit it, Bob. I think, like you said, if I'm, if I've got white margin sedge, you know, like you said, that late application of, 24D the one thing is white margin sedge. I will tell you, Rogue is not going to be an effective option on that. You know, I've talked to some folks that said that they've had good luck if it's 1 to 2in. But beyond that, rogue is not being a go to on white margin. Also, it doesn't really control yellow nut sedge. It is one outstanding material on Rice flat sedge. So it comes back to you've got to know what sedge you have in the field when you start building these programs. Because all of these herbicides are not the same in terms of performance on these particular weeds.

[28:47] Bob Scott

And the white margin sedge, Jason. Refresh my memory. Is it an annual does it reproduce mostly from seeds?

[28:53] Jason Norsworthy

It is an annual? It's a extremely,  high exorbitant seed production.

[29:01] Bob Scott

Like the annual sedge. Then if you do come back with rogue for the annual sedge or 2,4-D for white margin sedge, you're not only making some money on that this year's crop by getting it out of there, but if you can reduce that so that seed bank a little bit, it might be worth it.

[29:19] Jason Norsworthy

Absolutely.

[29:19] Bob Scott

Go ahead and make that application even this year.

[29:22] Jason Norsworthy

You don’t want this stuff to go to seed. I mean, my experience is being that, an isolated big problem becomes an extremely was a problem. These seed flow, you know, I mean, Rice, you know, you don't have a lot of grade on the field or you're in a zero situation and these seed are going to be moved from field to field.

[29:38] Tom Barber

Well, and I'll, I'll throw y'all a curveball before we leave it. And we didn't talk about this before, before we got live here, but, so if I'm in a bean rotation, what are some things that I definitely need to be doing in these heavy infested sedge fields? Whether it's white margin, annual, I guess those are the main two we're talking about. I know Yellow's a player there, but what programs should I be thinking of in a bean year to help me reduce that population?

[30:11] Jason Norsworthy

I don't have a good answer for, you know, right now, we've asked that from a research standpoint. We're going to try to collect some data on that. I think one thing that just my gut tells me is I would want to make sure I have as much metolachlor in there as possible. Rice Flat sedge I know that's going to be a good option there. Yellow nuts sedge, that’s going to be a good option there. I can't tell you with certainty on white margin sedge, but I seem to think that it is one thing that I have seen just talking to folks with white margin sedge, I've yet to get a grower call me and tell me he's got a white margin sedge problem in a bean field, which tells me that the chemistry that we're using in the beans and I would contend most folks are still they've got PPOs out there. They have chloroacetamides out there. I think those herbicides have to be providing a very high level of residual control of this weed. And then the other thing is, and this is like most weeds in general, if you've got a healthy crop and you can get a canopy, you're, you're not going to have late season emergence of those weeds.

[31:21] Bob Scott

I agree with you, Jason. I think a sturdy Group 15 program, maybe even a sequential, you know, we used to recommend dual PPI for sedge, and before we had roundup ready, but I think the roundup is having activity on it. I don't know that Liberty has much activity on sedges, it’s probably weak. It depends on which species. Maybe. But then, you know, we do have guys using enlist beans. So you got a 2,4-D going out as a as another shot.

[31:53] Tom Barber

Well, I know,

[31:54] Bob Scott

I think getting canopy closure. Tom. I'm such a big fan of drill beans this year. These these days, it. And then one of the first questions I ask guys that are struggling is, are you on wide rows or have you bit the bullet and switch to some kind of narrow row because I can just get so much faster canopy closure and ultimately better weed control if I can do that.

[32:18] Tom Barber

Well, and I can tell you from a yellow nut sedge standpoint anyway, the liberty in enlist one is very effective on yellow nut sedge.

[32:26] Jason Norsworthy

Liberty is. Tom, I agree with you. I was about to say, Liberty if it's yellow nut sedge, I like liberty over glyphosate. It is, it is better on yellow. But I'm also sitting here looking again. I've got data sitting here in front of me on rice flat sedge and on white margin sedge, Liberty at 28 days after application. The control ranged from 5 to 8% for both weeds. Whereas with glyphosate, it was, glyphosate on rice flat sedge, this would be three inch, rice flat sedge was about 40%. And on white margin sedge I had 75% control of.

[33:06] Tom Barber

Okay.

[33:08] Jason Norsworthy

So again, it comes back to, guys. You've got to know your weeds in order to make these applications and get good control. You can't just sit there and say it's a sedge.

[33:19] Tom Barber

Right. Yeah.

[33:22] Bob Scott

And I know there's a whole lot of liberty, Tom goes out tank mixed with roundup these days. That's another new thing that oh yeah happens a lot. That didn't obviously before but.

[33:35] Jason Norsworthy

Let's talk a little bit about since we're talking about rice. The other thing is nowadays everybody has this rice. It's either sick or it's one leaf. It's two leaf. And then as you said earlier, I get the phone call. You know, it was I had some guys, you know, it was wet didn't get my I didn't get my pre out. I was trying to plant as hard as I could or I got it out and I had ten inches of rain on it. And now that the water's off, I have two leaf barnyard grass and one leaf rice. What? What are we doing there? That's. That seems to be the had been the call for the last. I will say seven to 7 to 9 days now.

[34:11] Tom Barber

Yes. So what are you going to do?

[34:14] Jason Norsworthy

So what I've been I've recommended, you know, if it's, if it's one leaf rice and I've still got some moisture, clincher, RebelEx has been something that I've recommended. You know, when we get to two leaf rice, I’ve switched over to rice Star. My personal opinion is just based on the work that I've done. That rice star works a little bit better under drier conditions than clincher. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that either one of them is a home run. When the ground starts cracking, you're probably running into trouble at that point. But I need to be at, I'm going to go off of the label here. The label says that I have to be at two leaf rice in order to spray Rice Star whereas RebelEx and clincher I can come out on one leaf. You know, I have no issues with throwing some facet in there. I like the facet from a residual standpoint, but I come back to what I think I said a few moments ago. We've got a lot of facet resistant barnyard grass that's out there today. I'm not going to get any activity on that facet resistant barnyard grass post emergence, but I am getting activity from a residual standpoint. Another herbicide that I've had very, very good luck in my plot work, and I'm extremely excited about if I can get that, if I can get that rice to three leaf, once I get to three leaf, Rinde, which is a combination of Bispyriba and Quinclorac, or again in talking about products, it'd be like Regiment plus facet. I've had very, very good luck with that product once I get to three leaf rice. Bob, your thoughts?

[35:57] Bob Scott

Yeah, I agree and I'm getting, I've got a lot of calls this year coming in on this very, very problem. And, one leaf rice and two leaf barnyard grass, of course, has been happening for a long time. And, there's only so many things you can recommend that won't hurt the rice or that would be on label. I've recommended more clincher early, than I've have in in a while. And, usually that's a sign that the pres didn't work for some reason when that starts happening. And that's, I think, what we're running into right now. But now, Jason, I like your strategy fine. I agree.

[36:37] Jason Norsworthy

I think the one thing that I didn't mention that I do tell all these guys is I like to have a residual in there. Again, if they did that, if they didn't put that bolero down with that command, it's time to get it in. There is one leaf rice, let's get the bolero in there. Let's get some prowl in there. Yeah. We’ve got to do something otherwise barnyard grass is just going to keep coming until we get until we get a flood on it.

[37:00] Bob Scott

Well, you mentioned prowl. I have had a lot of calls about prowl. There's a lot going out early post. You can put it out any time as long as the seed is in water. So it's a viable product during this time. And for crabgrass fields, I mean, we hadn’t talked about crabgrass a lot, but I hate getting calls late in the year with big crabgrass because we just don't have a lot of good options for that. And the real solution to it is to get prowl out before it germinates. And that that's like you said, Jason that’s an opportunity right now to do that. While, the rice is small.

[37:40] Tom Barber

Yeah, I agree with all of that. I just think that there's a lot in this situation right now. And I just keep thinking about the last survey. I know we just got done kind of wrapping up a survey. It was soybean weed control. But the last Rice weed control survey, we did the, you know, we asked that question, if you miss this barnyard grass with the first application, how many does it take to clean it up or how many does it take to kill it? Jason, you remember the answer to that?

[38:10] Jason Norsworthy

Yeah. It was, it was three or four. If you miss it with the first app, you're looking at additional 3 to 4. And I had some folks comment, was we're going to run it through the combine if we miss it with the first day I think. Yeah I would agree with that folks. I mean, we have barnyard grass out there today that's resistant to 4 or 5 different modes of action in rice, and there's just not a ton of them that we have available. And so when you start having four way resistance, I feel, we preach this when it comes to pig weed in in soybeans and cotton and corn. And I'm preaching this in rice with barnyard grass. You can't let it come out of the ground, because when you let it come out of the ground, you don't have a lot of options to control it.

[38:52] Tom Barber

Right. And so, you know, we need the right rates when we're putting this out, a good application and a good residual. And, you know, Prowl’s a great one. You know, there's a couple others I could put out. I mean, there's, there any the I mean, it would either be Prowler command or Bolero, right? 

[39:11] Jason Norsworthy

Prowl, command, Valero. And like I said, I mean, we get we'll still even on a facet resistant population, I will get 14 days of, good residual on a facet resistant. If it's not facet resistant, I'm will get 3 to 4 weeks of good residual out of facet it depending on what the the moisture is.

[39:32] Tom Barber

And if you have crabgrass the facet will help a little bit on that. I would think if you have some crabgrass, will it?

[39:39] Jason Norsworthy

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a good, if it's small crabgrass, facet’s a pretty good crabgrass material. And I'll come back to the good old standard. We've been we've been spraying it for how many years is Propanil. Folks, if it's one leaf grass, it's just, it is crazy what propanil will kill now. It's not going to kill your barnyard grass. But when it comes to all these other grasses that we're talking about, four quarts of propanil or five quarts of propanil, especially if it's EC propanil, does wonders.

[40:10] Tom Barber

Okay.

[40:12] Bob Scott

I'll share a funny story with y'all real quick before we wrap up. I took this job from Ford Baldwin, you know, years ago, and one of the first things that happened was I started getting all these calls on post-emerge crabgrass control, and it was like, you've got this rated an eight on, crabgrass. And we've sprayed it and it's like not working at all. And, I mean, I was just right and left having failures on crabgrass. And we had all these numbers in the, in the book. And so I called Doctor Baldwin up and I said, hey, what's the deal? I said, we've got propanil twice rated an eight. We've got propanil facet rated whatever. And he kind of paused for a minute on the phone and he said, well, I'll tell you. He said, your numbers are too high. And I was like, well, thanks. You know, hahahaha,

[41:01] Tom Barber

Hahaha, yep.

[41:03] Bob Scott

So we adjusted those. Yeah.

[41:05] Tom Barber

Yeah, adjust those numbers you got there.

[41:06] Bob Scott

Yeah. Yeah. Because crabgrass is hard to kill.

[41:09] Jason Norsworthy

Right? Crabgrass is hard to kill.

[41:12] Tom Barber

It’s hard, but not as bad as, goose grass and row rice, and I still don't have an answer for that, so. Yeah. Yeah, I, Well, okay. Any other any other key points? One thing I will just a side note as we're talking about clincher and rice star early: watch the corn next to rice fields.

[41:33] Jason Norsworthy

That's actually. Yeah I was just about to say that, Tom.

[41:37] Tom Barber

Already had three texts this morning.

[41:39] Jason Norsworthy

I've had I've had several texts this morning. Watch the corn. The other call that I've been getting is I've drifted this on corn. It seems I was talking to a guy yesterday and he made the comment, it seems like that this has been the windiest March and April that we've had in a long time. And you know, when you have wind and you have adjacent crops, you're going to wind up getting something on there and clincher will ding corn.

[42:08] Tom Barber

Yes. That's a nice way to put it. It will ding corn.

[42:12] Bob Scott

I would, I'll just throw in the reminder that we do have a table in the front of the, MP44  about sensitivity of off target crops to these products. So if you got a question, if you're worried about it, you can look it up and see what the rating is on it.

[42:29] Tom Barber

I guess this could be a I mean, we don't have any time we want to take talking about this, but if they had planted enlist corn next door, actually it would be tolerant. So we wouldn't see that, that injury. But I don't know if there's that much enlist corn out there, so watch the corn. Well, I'll stick with that comment. Well, good. I think it's been a great discussion. I appreciate you guys taking some time. I always enjoy, of course we talk all the time anyway, but, getting together and discussing some of these issues, and I think our listeners, it's something that they like and got a lot of positive feedback lately. So any final comments as we, as we roll on?

[43:10] Jason Norsworthy

Tom I've enjoyed it. Like I said, it's good to get together and talk about what we're hearing and make these recommendations and just remind everyone we're just a phone call away. Give us a call and we'll do what we can to help you out.

[43:22] Tom Barber

Bob?

[43:25] Bob Scott

Same here. Apparently everybody has my phone number because they all called this morning, I think.

[43:30] Tom Barber

I’ve forwarded that around quite often. Actually, I might forward mine just to you, if that’s alright, haha. Well. All right. Well, good. Again, we're we're hoping everybody, continues to have a safe and and, good planting season. I know we've had some struggles and some setbacks, but I think that, you know, after this next rain moves through, hopefully next week, we're going to get out and finish getting this crop in the ground and, and, hopefully have a little better look in some areas. So, thanks again for listening to this episode of the Weeds AR Wild podcast series on Arkansas Row Crops Radio.

[44:09] Intro/Outro

Arkansas Row Crops Radio is a production of the University of Arkansas System Division of Agriculture. For more information, please contact your local county extension agent or visit uaex.uada.edu.