George Singh on Building Chutney Soca Monarch and Fighting Cultural Tokenism

For over 30 years, George Singh has shaped Carnival history as the founder of Chutney Soca Monarch, building what has become the most important Indo-Caribbean cultural competition in the world.

In this in-depth conversation, George takes us behind the scenes of how Chutney Soca Monarch began in 1996, the resistance he faced bringing chutney music into Carnival, and why fusion music is Trinidad & Tobago’s most authentic cultural expression. He shares never-before-told stories about Machel Montano’s surprise entry and win, the early days with artists like Sonny Mann, Sundar Popo, and Cecil Fonrose, and how the competition survived COVID, funding uncertainty, and public controversy.

We also explore the business realities of culture, including why government funding is essential, how tokenismcontinues to affect Indo-Caribbean art forms, and why Chutney Soca Monarch remains free to the public despite being a multi-million-dollar production. George speaks candidly about censorship, rum songs, lyrical responsibility, judging controversies, online abuse, and what it really takes to sustain a cultural institution for three decades.

This episode is a powerful reflection on legacy, equity, cultural policy, and nation-building through music — and why Chutney Soca Monarch is not just a competition, but a living archive of Trinidad & Tobago’s identity.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Which is the camera? That's on me. That one. Yeah, that's directly. That's one. Yeah. I just want to know which is the camera.

Corie 0:08

Yeah, when you're gonna say controversial things, you can say something.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Yeah, take me out of here.

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Corie 0:12

Yeah. When you're ready for viral moments, let's just for the worry, I'm custom. Are you good? Ready? I can go. Welcome to the Corn Shepper Podcast. Welcome back to everybody who's been listening. Welcome to all new listeners. Today I have with us see you on phone the South X, Mr. Johnson. Are we going soon? Good, good, good. I just tell people why South X and sing is that is that kind of fit. Well, well, I don't know. Some people may not know about South X. Well, I can tell them that South X is the company behind the international Chutney Soka Monarch.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Correct.

Corie 0:42

Let me start by congratulating you now. Or last year.

Defining SouthX And The Monarch

SPEAKER_00 0:47

30 years, 2025, 2026. We'll be celebrating 31 years. Congrats on that. 30 years. Yeah, long time. A long, long time, right? And we haven't stopped actually. Not even COVID stopped us. Right. So we were able, we we actually continued doing Chutney Soker Monarch in our virtual environment. We were the only competition, actually, the only carnival competition during COVID that actually happened.

Corie 1:10

Yeah. There were lots of things when I was looking doing research for this where you were either the first or the only. Many, many times you see is the first person to do this, or the first, the first company to do it. Yeah. So let's talk about this year last year in 2025. Your winners. I had one of the winners here. So we could say we had a chutney soccer monarchy, right? We had Lady Lava here the other day. Marshall, Drew Perty, and Lady Lava. Yeah. A surprise for a lot of people.

30 Years And The COVID Pivot

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Fabulous performance. Um a lot of people a lot of people thought when they heard Marshall had entered the competition, they say, Boy, George, we do. How you talk to that man? You encourage him, man. You know, the thing about it is that I never encourage Marshall to come. I got a call at seven o'clock one morning and I'll give you the story. Right? So seven o'clock one morning, I get this call. Hey George, Marshall. So I was like, Yeah. Right? Um, Marshall Montano. I was like, Yeah, okay. Because you know, you just get prank all the time. And there's one particular artist that loves to call me and play his Marshall. So I thought was him. Who's that boy? KI. KI, you know I love you. Yeah. Anyways, so um he said Marshall Montano, I want to enter Chutney Sokamana. So when he said I want to enter Chutney, I was like, okay, okay, okay. Who is this? Right? Because I can't believe Marshall seven o'clock in the morning and calling me telling me he wants to enter Chutney Sokamana. Right? So he said, George, this is Marshall Montano, turn on your video.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Right.

Machel’s Surprise Entry And Win

SPEAKER_00 2:39

So I turned on the video. Actually, before he told me to turn on the video, he said, This is Marshall. When you do that, I said, This is definitely a prank. Right? So um, so he turned on the video, and funny enough, it was Marshall. He was in LA, his mom was in the background, his wife was in the background, and I was I was like, he said, Yeah, seriously now. Um, he said, you know, I think I could bring something to the table. I want to, I want to actually um give Chutney Soka a little boost this year. The man, I mean, he was so professional. I told him, I said, you know, there's a form to fill out, um, fees to pay, of course, right? And you know, other artists, right, who feel they they reach, will say, George, we ain't gonna fill out no form, we ain't gonna pay no money, it's me. You know, this kind of thing. Marshall was very professional, filled out his form, paid his money, you know, registered as everybody else, um, and went through the whole process, you know. So I was really impressed by the whole thing, very professional approach, everything. And um, Marshall was there, and you know, it would was good to have him there. Yeah, yeah. Um, he did he did bring a lot to the table where Chutney Soka Monarch is concerned and his genre of music. Um, so we were happy to have him, and well, he won.

Corie 3:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great presentations were a hell of a show.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yeah, it was a great show because we had people like Nival Chait Lal there, we had Ricky Jai, you know, so a lot of a lot of uh people came back to because it was the 30th anniversary as well. A big, a big, a big um, a big milestone for us.

Corie 4:11

Of course, uh and and stiff competition. He wasn't going into nothing where you're walking in and you're winning, right? It was it was one of them shows.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Marshall entered that competition, right? Never asked us what the prize was, you know, which was which was strange. And I never I was waiting for him to ask. He never asked at any point in time, George, where is the prize money? Right, right. So that was never a factor for him. And actually, on the night at Skinner Park, I mean I'll share some of the backstories for you all, right? When Marshall performed, he and his team left the park. Right. So it was almost like if he did not believe that he was going to win. So when he left the park, um they brought the results to me about maybe half an hour after his performance. I can't remember exactly, maybe it may have been about an hour. And I started looking at him, right? Nobody knew what the results were yet. And they said Marshall left, you know. So I called him. Che answered. Yeah. And uh, I said, Che, where are you all? He said, Well, we we're going up the highway, we have our site visit to go and do for our performance we have to do tomorrow. I said, You all need to come back. I didn't tell him, I didn't say they wanted. I just said I said, You all need to come back now, right? And I heard Marshall in the background saying, Turn around, turn around, turn around.

Corie 5:34

He's a better man than me. We can collect my prize as I done perform. I don't know if you're on social media a lot. Like one of the memes or one of the things running wrong the year before was Marshall is going all the competition, he's sweeping up all the money all about. And they said the only thing he never win is Chutney Soker Monarch. So I think everybody was surprised when he came in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's one of them things where the the the it's a fusion of almost three genres of music that win the competition this year. Chutney Sokoma being or Chutney Soka itself being a lot of fusion. It's something that you felt good about when it's any word panel.

Fusion Music And Global Appeal

SPEAKER_00 6:05

So definitely, I think Chutney Soka music in in general, one of the big attractions to Chutney Soka music is the fact that it is fusion music, right? And if you look at what is trending internationally on the music scene, that's true, right? Fusion music is what is trending. So one of the things that attracts the international market to Chutney Soka, and I'm talking now, not the Caribbean diaspora, people outside of the diaspora. You know, we had a lot of interest in the show from people from India, from from even from Miami, um, you know, white guys who was looking at what is going on in Trendan. And one of the big attractions to the show was the fact that it was fusion music and a fusion of Afro and Indo rhythms, you know, because that's what it is. That's what it starts. You know, and if you look at if you listen to Afro Beats music, right, which is which is happening in a big way now. You know, Afro Beats music has a lot of little Indian into the music. It's fusion music in itself. It is fusion music, you know, so there's a lot of similarities in terms of what is going on internationally. And Chutney Soka, I feel, is the one music. I know Soka is breaking barriers already, you know, but I think that Chutney Soka can also break barriers, and it's just a matter of time.

Corie 7:17

Yeah, something Trinal and Tobago should feel proud of, if you ask me, in terms of what it is.

Respect For Soka Monarch Roots

SPEAKER_00 7:22

It's a it's it is really a combination, it's the only type of music that combines the Afro and Indo rhythms of Trinidad and Tobago, and I always say it is a true depiction of who we are as a people.

Corie 7:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The show itself, the show itself, because that is uh that is an event. Like we saw Sokamonaraka. I heard you reference Soka Monarch and uh Monroe and them in terms of when you started off and looking at Soka Monarch and Soto saying, you know, the Chutney the Chutney World needs this. Yeah. Uh you come and you outlast Soka Monarch, boy. Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

I I'm gonna tell you, I have great respect for William Monroe. Right. William Monroe treated me very respectfully. Um, I remember in the early days, I went to him and and he he really spoke to me like if I was his son, you know, and he was happy that we were doing it. It's not to say that you come and you're doing something and and he telling you, nah, nah, you know, he was very welcoming. He was he was happy to have Chutney Soka there. And he and I um developed a very good relationship. I was really sad to see him go, you know. But I think um there are many factors that drove him away. One of it, of course, is the fact that we have to go cap in hand begging people for money every year. I think he got a little fed up of that. Yeah, yeah, you know, and and and and he's an aging guy, of course, right? As I am also. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.

Corie 8:41

We're not seeing any evidence of that.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

But um, but but I think William got a little bit, a little bit tired of the the the the you know the the cap in hand every year going begging people, sure you know, begging government, I should say, you know, to um to fund the show. Yeah, you know, so uh but but I think I have I I really really had great respect for what William Monroe did. I think he did a fantastic job with Sokamark. Um when he let go of Soker Monarch is when Soker Monarch started to slide. Sort of thing, right? Yeah, yeah.

Corie 9:09

And well, I want to talk about our funding as well, right? But even as you say, he was encouraged and kind of put our arm around you. I do remember hearing saying or hearing you say when you originally had the idea and you went to radio stations and it started shop, but people tell you outright it's gonna fail. So yeah, yeah.

Why A Competition, Not A Fete

SPEAKER_00 9:26

And um, that guy always gets, I never called his name on on air, but he knows who he is. Well, you can get to call it every time, every time I talk about it, he will call me. If he says something, right, he will call me and say, George, you're still talking about that boy, you know. But but it's a fact. You know, I went to a radio station, right? Um, and when I went in there, man tell me he said, George, where you're gonna do with this? This is an Indian thing. What you bringing this in carnival for? This is not a place in carnival. In those days, you had men like um Roy Maraj and um Cliff Harris, right? Who were the two main people doing events. That is that size events. Roy had about nine events back to back. Cliff Harris had another four or five, you know, and they were the ones leading the whole um pack. And he said to me, he said, them fellas are gonna eat you up, they're gonna mash you up, you know, and um this thing go you know, you're making a big mistake. I left there that day, even more convinced that what I was doing had a place. You know, and I was just totally focused on making this happen. And I will never forget at the end of the first season, right, which was 1996, we actually got a letter from Louis Lee Singh who at the time was the chairman of TTT, right? He was the chairman or his own. I think he I think he was the CEO congratulating us on doing Chutney Soka Monarch in 1996 and hailing it as there was a news report hailing it as the biggest success story of Carnival 1996. In fact, the Chutney Soka Monarch started. You know, there's so many stories I have, you know, and I tell people um Ellis Cholin on is another story, right? You remember Ellis? He was the manager of Charlie's roots, right? So at the prelims in 1996, we were setting up the stage at Samar Entertainment Center. First show, first ever show. Oh, so did it the semi-s was at Samara? The the prelims really had prelims in those days, right? The prelims was at Samar Entertainment Center in Pinal, right? And I remember when we're setting up the stage, there was this gallant. You know, our gallant is a little bit. Yeah, that was the car that some people might remember what our gallant was, right? But our gallant was our car, people, if you can't remember, right? Um, there was this gallant, right, that was parked in the middle of summer, and the place empty, so this one car is there, and this guy sitting on the car. And so I kept looking at the car and I kept asking, yeah, who's that fellow? You know. So then eventually I went up to the car and I said, So how are you going? Um, can I help you? And it was Ellis trolling on, right? Sitting on in the car. And he said to me, He said, You are you George Singh? And I said, Yeah. And he said, You know, I just had to come down here today to see what you were doing because I was just totally moved and excited about the fact that you were introducing something like Chutney Sukha Monarch in Carnival. So that's and Ellis and I um actually developed a great relationship after that. You know, um, so it's so there, there are different stories. You know, I'm happy that we started it. Um some people thought it would feel it. Right, of course, of course. You know, and it just grew from from that from that stage, it just grew leaps and bounds.

Corie 12:37

So the point now is one of the biggest events in Carnaval.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

It is one of the most important, it is the most important Indo-Caribbean event in the world. It is also one of the big competitions of Carnival, um, and it is is one of the competitions that is always trending. Of course, of course.

Corie 12:53

You see, it's like the Twitter conversation when it's going on, it happened at Boblin. Yeah, I had to ask you because you came up with the idea and you wanted to do it. Why a competition and not just a chutney fet?

Prizes, Big Songs, And Legends

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Um so when I when I first came up with the idea to do Chutney Sukamana, right? My whole approach to it was from a business perspective. So I remember walking into the Ministry of Culture. In those days, Mangal Patissa was uh was a cultural officer, right? And I figured, let me go and talk to somebody at the ministry to let them know that we were planning to do this. And I remember walking in and telling him, okay, so my name is George Singh, I want to do a show called Chuck Nisoka Monarch. Um, I'm doing it to make money, right? And he just sat down there and he was like, you know, you are the first person ever come in here and tell us you're doing our show to make money, right? And I was like, Well, yeah, you know, but I was out we had a business background. I came from a business background. Um I'm Roman Catholic. Let me just say that. Right. So I'm not I didn't come from a Hindu background. I I I live in San Fernando, right? So I didn't come from that Indian cultural space, right? So nobody knew who I was. So that was another that was another hill that I had to climb, right? Because imagine somebody who you don't know coming and telling you, well, here now, come on into a competition, you're gonna win a car, it's three three weeks, and you're gonna win a car. So they thought I was some kind of crazy fella who couldn't thief their money, or I don't know, how what money I was gonna do.

Corie 14:31

Like for people who wasn't there, it's just very few competitions will be giving away a car, it's really calp someone that can maybe so come on that kind of right.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

So people thought, who the hell is this man? We we don't know him. That's smart man. We do have, yeah, some smart man come again, right? Um, so that was what we had to we had to fight, but um, but yeah, what what what what um I lose the trend of what we were talking about? Right. So from a competition perspective, I felt from a business perspective, right? There was more opportunity in a competition to bring sponsorship in rather than, and I thought that there would be more interest in a competition from a television perspective, from a media perspective, from sponsorship, people would want to support it from a development point, right? Doing a competition made more sense to us than doing a Fed from a business standpoint, yeah, from a business standpoint, so it made sense to us at that point um to do it. And and the car that we gave away that year, um, as the first, right, we actually paid for the car. There's our own, no, so you buy the car. Yeah, we bought the car. All right, they gave us a small discount on the car, but we paid for the car. And I and I gave that company, I wouldn't call the company's name, right? I gave that company mileage as if they gave us the car. So everybody thought they gave us the car. And I thought, well, okay, next year we're getting our car from these people because we're real big in them. Of course. Yeah, it comes. The next year came, no, we didn't get a car from that company. Well, it was with a shot, it was with a shot.

Crowds, New Venue Layouts, And Streaming

Corie 16:00

But we get a car from somebody else, where well, that's why we say it's a good marketing plan. Okay, if you make it seem as though somebody gave her a car, somebody else might want to compete for that space. Yeah, so the original yeah is Sonny Man, right? Lotella, we know classic. You know, I think I think Rural Bulgie was the next song. Yeah, people might not remember that it was two songs initially, just like all the other monarchs. Correct. When it started, it was two songs, right? Uh, you running into the composition that you're doing prelims, semis, and finals. You have a good mind that Sonny Man kind of had them because Lotella was just getting bigger and bigger and bigger, that kind of ball in particular.

Stubbornness, Business Roots, And SouthX

SPEAKER_00 16:33

So that year, um, you had Lotella, you had Chutney Bakanal, you had um Ajala with Sunani. Um, it was just a year with a lot of big hits, and then you had the you had the veterans like the Cecil Fonrose, the Boy Bass Dew, um, the Pulmati Ramjat and the Sundar Popo. Right. So, I mean, I I feel I I feel honored actually that I was able to come through this this um this story of Chutney Soker with all these very famous people that were still around. Yeah, so when you talk about people like Boy Baza, who's the butterfly man, I don't know if you know that song, butterfly, you probably don't know. No, no, no, no. But that was a big, big, big Chutney song, right? Butterfly, Sundar Popo. Right. Um, Sundar Purpose actually, um, our stage was one of the was one of the last stages that he performed on before he died. And the night he went on stage, he was he was very ill, he was backstage, and I remember going and telling him, Sonari, you know, you're not looking good. He was a bad diabetic. You're going on stage, you're really going on sing, you're not looking good. Yeah, right. And he told me, he said, George, I want to die on that stage. And I was like, What the hell is this man telling me, boy? I want to go and die on my stage, right? So you know, it and he went on stage and he started to perform with his back to the audience, right? Right? Yeah, I think it's on YouTube actually. If people search it, they'll see it. And Shamun Mohammed, who was the MC at the time, had actually walked on stage and turned him around. So he couldn't even see properly. Nice, you know, and I believe that yeah, an ambulance came to Skinner Park and took him away. Oh wow, you know, but he was ill and he died about two months after.

Corie 18:17

You see, but it's good as they say that it was a capture them moment, a sort of transition point, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

So there are a lot of history in Chutney Soka. Of course, a lot of history.

Corie 18:25

And originally Skinner Park, old looking then, it's 10 or 10 or 15,000 people then where it starts off with.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so yeah. It's about is yeah, the first year would have been a big year. Um, now people tend to believe that the crowds have diminished. The crowds have actually not diminished. You know, the thing about it is that when I don't know if you remember the setup for Skinner Park in years gone by, the stage would be at the middle, the middle of the field. Yeah. And they used to check 80 feet from the stage, right? And the mixing board used to be on the edge of the cycle traffic. Right, right, right. And when the whole park is full, that half of the park is full, right? And anybody can't remember one day um somebody from the media came and the park was full. And look at me and I see, George, about 30,000 people here, boy. Right? And I shoops. And I was like, well, ride that's on Monday morning, right? 30,000 people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, because that's good for for the show, you know. So write 30,000. I I didn't say anything, but yeah, 30,000 people, you know, 30,000, you have a lot of people. Yeah, of course. Can't fit in skin park, right? But now they've pushed this, well, they've renovated skinner park, beautiful venue, completely, right? One of the nicest venues in the country. They push the stage down to the end of the field, right? Plus, you have this big, big, big seating area. You know, so when you look at people filling up that area, which which was about six to nine thousand people, I think, somewhere around there, right? And then you have the field, you know, so it looks as if the crowd is not there, but the crowd is still there. And then we have now you have the phenomenon of online, right? So last year, during 2025, um, we actually had 17,000 people come looking at the show live. Now that number would have been rotated, but at the end of the at the end of the 90s looking at more than 100,000 people that would have looked at the show, that would have logged on at some point and looked at the show. And then when you leave that up for 30 days, you could cross a million views very easily. You know, so so the show is very, very, very popular. We have a big fan base, um, Miami, New York, um, Toronto, of course. We have a fan base in England. Um, but Chutney has really gone all over, you know. You have um Savita Singh and Raymond Ramnerin and them now performing in Holland and South Africa. Raymond was here talking about some of it. Yeah. You know, so it's it's a it's a phenomenal thing that's happening.

Discovering Chutney And Spotting A Movement

Corie 20:53

Now I'd ask you because when people tell you or very influential radio personalities say, hey, you can't do this thing, this thing will fail, most people walking out of that saying maybe I should take the advice. But you have some experience in business by the time you got there, right? When was Salt Ex started? When you started company.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Just to just focus on what you said there, right? I'm a kind of stubborn kind of guy. Very stubborn guy. So if I have my mind set on something, I do in it. Yeah. Right? So my wife always tells me, you know, she will say, Well, you're real, you're real stubborn. We will tell you don't do something, but you're gonna do it. You know, I remember um at one point too, my bankers told me, George, what's going on with you? Well, you lose money this year, you're going to do that thing again. Time to stop. You know, time to stop. And no, no, no. We were very, very focused. That day, um, this was the marketing manager of the radio station, not Tommy. He was the the not the marketing manager, he was the brand manager. I see, I see of the station. But I was so convinced that Chutney Soka was going to be a success that no matter what he said to me that day, but that was like that went over my head. Clearly. You know?

Corie 22:00

Yeah. So them original days in business. You grew up in a family that was at business something?

From Profit To Purpose And Legacy

SPEAKER_00 22:05

When South Tex started, South Tex actually started in 1991. Right? So I had a store at Gulf City. What kind of store were you doing? It was a video club. Okay, okay. Right? Like VHS borough. Did you bring it back? So I started a video club in in um somewhere in 1986, somewhere around there. I think it might have been. I think before that, about 84. Okay. So them was the days you make money in video club. You charge people$500 on the joining club. Seriously? You charge people$500 to join my club. That was them was the days. And you get charged if you're rewinding casts on the channel. Yeah, yeah, you're charging them to know, you know, and when they come back later, you're charging them for the first. But that was easy money. Not again. That them days gone. Nothing. Right? But anyway, um, I had a store at Gulf City and Gulf City wanted a way to generate traffic through the mall. You know, and the South Chamber had once done an event, an expo event at the mall, which I participated in. And while participating in that event, I was so excited about the event, and I got so much good feedback from it. I suggested to the mall management at the time, let's do a trade show, right? And I said, let's call it South X. South Expo. Yeah, and that was that was it, right? And um that year we started with only six companies, right? Um, but it grew. And at one point, South Tex Expo had a hundred this before Govsidi went under renovation. We had 187 exhibitors in the mall. So it used to be where the atrium and well I guess that much. Wherever we find our space to put people, we support we put boots, you know. So um, so that th that was how we started, and then I remember one day I was in his store, I think this was in 19, it would have been in 1985, in 1995. Um, a guy walked in and he said to me, he said, Well, George, why don't you don't do a Chutney show? And I was like, Well, okay, what is our Chutney show? I didn't even know what a Chutney show was, right? He said, Well, let's let's go summer this weekend. They have a show in summer, and I said, Okay, sure, no problem. And I went to that show, and I mean, I tell you, and my pause raised because I could remember it, like if it was yesterday, and I stood up at the back of the venue, the place was completely filled, the music was infectious, right? It just it just hit me like a rock. I looked at the crowd, it was a diverse cross-section of people, um, from grandmothers, parents, children, everybody having a good time. It was a pretty safe environment, and I felt to myself, you know, there's something going on here. There's something going on here. We need to pay attention to this, you know, and it was just uh after that I I went back home and um my mind just started spinning, and you know, I knew I knew Soka Monarch was going on. Sonny Man's song got big from elections, right? And um, right, they would have been part of the campaign and all that. That was it was a campaign song, I see, right? So that was a very big song at the time. Um and I figured I say, you know what, let's do a competition now.

Team, Production, And Professionalization

Corie 25:27

And that's I was gonna ask you if you didn't grow up, you know you didn't grow up in the culture, you're learning it. You say you went penal and you see the event for the first time. But you don't tell me your wife says stubborn, so I was gonna ask you about how much resistance again, who when you went to man say, well, you all of a sudden you're doing a chutney show.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yeah. The thing is that my biggest support has been my wife, yeah. Actually, let me just say that. So she has really been my rock. So even though she might tell me, Boy, you're stubborn, don't do that. You know, if I decide I'm doing it, she she she stay with me, you know, and she will be there and say, Okay, we are going down the road with you. Right, you know. Um, so yeah, I did get some resistance, but at the end of the day, um, you're gonna do it anyway.

Corie 26:13

Yeah, all right, good. So SouthEx days, you pull past as a company, then it's to continue to do the expos, because right now.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

So, so yeah, so when we started South X, we actually it started it started as a trade show company. So our name of the company is actually South X trade shows and promotions. Right? So we started at South X and then we went to South X trade shows and promotions, right? And um, so trade show and still is a major part of our business. So trade shows and conference management, trade show management and conference management is a big part of what we do. So during the year outside of Carnival, I know a lot of people feel that Georges do Chutney soaker, monarch, and then relax for the whole year. You can't make money from Carnival people. Understand that you don't you don't make money from Carnival, right? So, but it's something to do, it keeps us busy in January and February, right? Um, and then for the rest of the year, we basically do conference management, trade show management. Now, our company is also the largest supplier of boot infrastructure for the trade show market. So anybody who's doing an expo that needs these expo boots, we supply it. Right. So I have our I have warehouses with these boots there. We we also have a large amount of exhibition trusts. So we basically supply the conference market. So that keeps us, that keeps us, that puts the bread on the table, actually.

Corie 27:27

Yeah, you know, for us during the year. That was the first time I heard the name. We had we had my father and I have a company and we were doing our show in Center Excellence. It was like a conference, I guess. Yeah, and we wanted boots. So my father tell me, well, you know, I had to call South X. So imagine my surprise now because I know South X as a boot rental company. I didn't know it was the Expo or that. So when I look at Sokamon, Chutney Sokamon, I was like, how these two things come together. Yeah, yeah.

Documenting History And Archives

SPEAKER_00 27:49

So we are actually one of the only companies that have such a uh a crossover into business, such a big involvement in business and entertainment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, which I think has helped us a lot because in our approach to anything that we do, we take our business approach more than anything else.

Corie 28:05

Yeah, it might be interesting because the fact that you went into it saying that, for instance, you don't have that upbringing in the culture, or you even walking into the ministry to say, I do need to make money, might be part of the reasons why it it it sustains differently. Yeah, no, let me just say this.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Please. Even though I began that way, right? And we we began where it had to make money, right? After I got involved, and two, three years down the road, and I realized the impact that Chutney Soka Monarch was now having on the industry, that what we were doing was really a development um factor in part of the whole development of this Chutney Soker industry, how it was changing lives, which is so important, right? How Chutney Soka Monarch was changing the lives of these people who were poor people, right? They were not people who were um out there, plenty money, you know, they're not performing on they're not performing on the big stages, you know. So we brought we brought Chutney Soka into mainstream, right? We brought it into mainstream.

Corie 29:16

There's some of the foundation Chutney Soka artists you're talking about. Yeah.

International Moves And Wildcards

SPEAKER_00 29:19

You know, so so um so really and truly, when I saw the impact it was having, it became it became my passion and it still is. You know, it still is, and and because of that now, um, we will continue to do it. So there are years when we lost money, you know, but we continue to do it because we see the importance of the event. Yeah you know, and I I remember when we hit 20 years. I told when we did when we were doing it 20 years, I said, well, this is my last year. I ain't gonna do this after this, right? And but I cannot seem to walk away from it. You know, so 25 years, I was like, okay, 25, that is it. Right? When I reached 30. Just a few days ago, I was like, okay, I think I can reach 40, you know. Yeah, we're gonna reach 40. We're gonna go, I'll stop when I reach 40, you know. So um, we've just been going and going, but I think it's so important to continue doing the event. Yeah, yeah. You know, my my two sons, I have two sons, um, 38 and 33. Um, one is an attorney, he's actually the lawyer for the company. So anytime anybody gets my trouble, I put a cafe on them, right? And um, no, like this. Right. And um, and the other one has his own company, but they've both grown up in the entertainment business. So they they basically have taken over Chutney Soka to a certain point, the execution of the event. So, for example, on the day of the event and leading up the days to the event, you know, already set up infrastructure, making sure all the things are done, security, this, that, all the people that need to work and whatnot, they deal with all those things. So they take that responsibility off of me because that is a load to deal with. And I deal with basically what's going on on stage, right? Um, we now work with um Penny, you know, Penny. Which Penny?

Corie 31:04

Spencer, the penalty Spencer, Bettles, Penny Gomez, Penny Gomez, Penny Gomez, right?

Government Funding: Necessity And Free Entry

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Penny, lovely person, right, right. Penny got involved with us a couple of years ago, and um, she she's now technical director, she she deals with my stage management and everything. And um, when Penny got involved, now I am so accustomed to being on stage, right? Just kind of monitoring what's going on and not doing anything bad there, you know, in case anything goes wrong. Because once I hand over the show to the to the stage manager and the MC, I tell them basically, okay, the show is yours. From this point, you run the show, um, whichever TV station running it, there they have the technical people there and it goes from there. Um, the first year Penny was there, I was I was behind her, and she ran me from the stage, you know. She was like, George, what are you doing here? Get off the stage. We don't wear you around.

Corie 31:54

Everybody watch up to in Chutney to say, George, because you're talking about seeing Ellis Shalon and in the crowd, they say it's still so tough to today, you know. They say the man there, whole night head, you very much involved, hands on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Definitely hands-on. Yeah, um, but Penny ran me off stage. I remember the first year Penny came was the first year I ever had an alcoholic drink at Chutney so come on up. Yeah, yeah, because I I would not take an alcoholic drink. Not that I drink alcohol, but I mean, yeah, you know, for the man that drink David Social, right? But um, it was the first year my wife said, she said, boy, you look so relaxed tonight, you know. Um, I ain't care what Penny cost, then. Hold on, you better cut that one out, right? Um, but you need to bring Penny back next year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Edit that out, yes. Right. Um, yeah, so so I mean, but Penny's a wonderful, wonderful person. She has brought a lot to the table now. I have a real professional team who's gonna make the show. We deal with Media 22. Sean Mahabersing, who does all my stage production, Krishna Sounds does the sound. Um, Penny's the technical director. We have a really, really good team doing that show, and um, I'm really happy. This year, actually 2025, the 30th anniversary, I was on the field, right? Not even VIB. I was on the field with my friends watching the show from the field. When Marshall was performing, I was on the field. Yeah, yeah. You know, so I wasn't him on stage, which is fantastic. I mean, I was able to see the show properly and of course, yeah, maybe for the first time.

Corie 33:19

Yeah, you know, you were telling them before we started what a magazine that you did because I think uh Chutney International Chutney So come on, I have some moments on stage in terms of the presentation that really spectacular. You did a magazine capturing.

Artist Development And Youth Pipeline

SPEAKER_00 33:31

So we did a magazine, the magazine is uh is uh is available online as a PDF. Um, but we also printed printed some copies, um, which we gave to some of the sponsors, ministry, etc. etc. Uh amazing magazine. We did it in-house, but I I think it was so it was so well done. And and really and truly, because of the media coverage that the show gets. So basically, we took some of the media articles and whatnot, and we included it in the magazine so that that magazine you can see, going through that magazine, you get a good picture of what happened in 2025.

Corie 34:07

Right, all right. So uh plans to do things like that because when you anything that you do that lasts 30 years, I I feel like documenting some of it is so important. Like the parallel between the first one and the and one number 13.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Right. So um good point, right? Because um from day one, 1996, right, we have um scrapbooks, we have done scrapbooks. Right. So I've cut out everything that came out in the newspapers and we and we have logged it in scrapbooks. So if you go into my office, um we have catalogs with pictures, we have um scrapbooks done from year one, 1996 coming straight up. I have all the judging sheets that we've kept. So even if you came to my office and wanted to see the judging sheet from Sonny Man for 1996, it's there, right? Because I feel that that is history. Yeah, of course, right? That is something that needs to be kept.

Corie 35:00

It's museum worthy.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

It is museum with the um at some point we'll have to digitalize it. Of course, yeah. Um to save it, which we have to do at some point. Um, but funny enough, students at UI sometimes that have been doing research on Chutney Sook have actually come to our office to do the research. You know, the media, when they want a picture of an artist, they call me.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Right?

SPEAKER_00 35:26

So I am like a resource of course for them, which is which is fine because we have the information there.

Corie 35:32

You know, so yeah, it's excellent. Now the word international, because uh Chutney in itself or Chutney Soka, we have some markets that are critical, Guyanese market, Florida, yeah, uh Toronto, you said in Canada as well. I know you had done uh you had done it internationally one year, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Yeah, we did Chutney Soka monarch in Toronto, right?

Corie 35:50

How did that go?

Venues, Logistics, And TV-First Packaging

Rum Songs, Censorship, And Lyrical Standards

SPEAKER_00 35:51

It was good, it was good. That was 2019. The intention was to move it to New York the following year in 2020, and then COVID came and shut down the old place, right? So um that stopped us for a couple of years, and and we were not able to get it going again. Um, however, there are um Chutney Sokamonak is open to international artists. We actually had in the last two years, we've had something called uh um a wildcard, and the wild card is an international wild card where we ask um international artists to submit their songs and then we look at it and we give somebody uh a free pass straight to the final because we know that it's very difficult for international artists to come to a semi-final, right? Travel to Trinidad and then perform. Then you had to go back and then you have to do that. Semi enjoying it and all that it's very expensive, of course. So we've tried our best to do things to help that international market. Um, Guyana is the same thing. Actually, Guyana's Chutney Soka Monarch. Guyana was doing a Chutney Monarch before, and we went into Guyana and we actually started Chutney Soka Monarch in Guyana, which they've continued, right? Um, and um so they continued separately, sometimes they continued it separately. So when I went in there, we actually did the show. Um, we brought three of the top winners to Trinidad that was in 2011 or 2012, right? That's the year that KI had single forever. That's the year we went to Queen's Park Oval. I don't know if you remember. Yeah, we came to the Queen's Park Oval. And um, so that year we actually brought three artists from Guyana who were the three top winners in Guyana, and we actually paid for people from the TV station in Guyana and the minister to come to Trinidad, right? And I thought I said, okay, good, you know, we've done this, we've we've showed Guyana what we could do, right? The next year, now Kamala Pasar Bisessa was in power. Of course. Um, and the next year I went to the minister over there at the time, and I said, well, okay, you know, we everything we promised you in 2012, we did. Right. You know, but in 2013, if we have to continue doing this, you're gonna have to put out some money, you know. Government government. Yeah, because I am gonna have to explain to the prime minister in Canada why we bring in these people to take Trend their money. Of course, of course, of course. So um, and the guy told me, the minister told me at that point, he said, um, he said, George, you are a great talker, you know. He said, I'm sure you could explain that to the prime minister. Oh, that's his response. I like that. Yeah, right. So I was like, okay, I left our office and I chop it. Of course. Right? Because um, and then the I never told them I chopped it. And when it was coming up to their competition, they called and they said, George, what going on? What going on? And I was like, Well, you all didn't put no money, so we ain't doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and um, they were very upset with me, so they continue doing it on their own, which is which has been very successful. Okay, I'm happy because at the end of the day, they're still promoting the the Chutney Suka brand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The art form. So yeah, so that's good.

Corie 38:56

Well, let's talk about anime, because I hear you talk about that several times, right? Because there's a complaint in society where a private enterprise is going in to make money or to you doing it for the purpose of making profit, as a private enterprise is defined. What is the reason that we need government funded? So you hear people say that all the time why taxpayers' dollars go in to private people? They complain about this with you as well as with Monroe. What's your thoughts on it?

SPEAKER_00 39:19

So it's impossible to do Chutney Soka Mark without government funding. But now, yes, we went into it, and that's why I made the point that when we started, we started with it being a money-making exercise.

Corie 39:32

Yes, as a business would say.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Um, I cannot tell you that Chutney's doing Chutney Soka Mark. Sometimes I wonder to myself, why am I doing this?

Corie 39:40

It would be a greater purpose, you're saying.

Sampling, Bollywood Melodies, And Rights

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Right? Because it really does not generate the kind of income profit-wise that you should be getting. However, it is an important event. You know, um it is impossible. Okay, so the prize money, for example, the prize money alone, you can't uh right now the the only sponsor in the show is government, right? Government and state boards, right? They are the only ones. So if you do if you take that out, then you can't do Chutney, so come on out. So so I mean, yes, it's a private enterprise, however, I think because it's a private enterprise that the shows have been so successful, you know. I mean, I mean, no disrespect to the government, but at the end of the day, the privately run shows are the ones that are probably done much better than the ones run by the government, yeah, right? Um, when William Monroe was doing soccer monarch, it was a great success. I mean, that was the show of shows. It was really Fantastic Friday, you know, um, and it was really a spectacle, you know. And um, so Chutney Sokamonarak is still that, but very important. Government funding is very, very important now in 2015, right? Um, PNM had now come into power. Now and Gardsby Dolly was the culture minister, and um I went into her office and we sat now we're talking, you know, Chutney Sokamana, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then she said to me, she said, but she said, Well, George, you just make real money by the door. You know, um, and I was like, Minister, you know, really and truly we don't make money by the door. You know, because when you have Ministry of Culture, and you have NCC, and you have the City Corporation, and you have NLCB, and you have this one and that one, and everybody's saying, Yeah, let's okay, we want a hundred tickets, we want 200 tickets, we want 300 tickets, want 500 tickets, right? And you know, William Monroe told me that story very early on in the game, and I didn't believe him. Right? He would tell me that there are five, six thousand people inside the Queen's Park Oval or wherever they're doing it, that have not paid. And I was thinking, earlier, Mary, you expect me to believe that boy? You know, but that is the truth. You know, so we have seven, eight thousand people sometimes inside Skina Park that have not paid, you know, that are in there in complimentaries. So I said to her, I said, you know what, Minister, I'll prove a point to you. We're going free. I'm going to offer the show free to the public. And since 2015, Chutney Soka Monarch has been free to the public. Now, our belief in that is that if the government is paying for the show, then we give it back to the people. Right? So that nobody could say George collecting money by the gate. Right? Didn't we collect no money by the gate? We get sponsorship, which is apart from government sponsorship. There's small sponsors that are involved in the show, but we try basically to cover the show. Chutney Silka Monarch is a very large production, it is a very expensive production, and it is absolutely free to the public. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So it's the one show in Carnival that nobody has to pay for, right? But it's a real spectacular show that we don't we don't um pull back on anything. We we go all out.

Judging Fairness And Public Backlash

Corie 42:58

Yeah, so just get talking about our purpose and and and as you say, carrying it on for a greater, a greater good. It's like some of the legacy acts. Let me call them that, right? Which will turn out to be the ones who went 30 years ago, like you mentioned, Sundar Propo or Sonny Man, for instance. You identify or make make the link between the amount of Chutnisoka artists, young ones who come up now, that I don't know if they would have had that influx or that growth among Chutnisoka artists with all the competition. That's something you pay attention to. I know you pay attention to the legacy you usually honor.

Competing Shows And Genre Definitions

SPEAKER_00 43:30

No, no, no, definitely. I mean, in the years when we started, um, so you had the normal artist, right? Um, and then so so what one of the one of the points I made recently to someone, right, is one of the things I I like about the show now more than anything else, is the fact that we have so many young people that are coming into the show. So the fact that you have young, so many young people entering the show who were not around that industry before. Right, it tells you that the industry has has long legs, there's longevity there, right? You have continuation um of the thing, and you have good music coming out, yeah. You know, um we have people coming into the show. Um, for example, no, I I shouldn't be calling this name yet, but I mean there's some there's a big soccer act also that is coming into the show in in 2026, right? That has just registered. Yes. Um, I haven't seen the form yet. If I had seen the form, I would have called him. Right. I had to see the form first, right? But so it tells me that the soca acts, and you know, Chutney Soka Monarch, right, is the only show where you have these big soccer acts competing with the Chutney acts in the soccer show, any soca monarch or ultimate soccer, whatever you're calling it, right? If they have it, um, you don't see, you don't see that that kind of that kind of um feel that kind of mix. Not really, not really. Yeah. I mean I was in the first ultimate soaker. I was in the I was in the um Queen's Park Oval, right, when they pelled Sonny Man. I don't even remember that. No. They pelled Sonny Man and Sokamona because Sonny Man threatened to stop Sokamona that yeah. It's something that happened, right? And he threatened to stop Sokamona for some stupid reason. I mean, if you had come out as a Sonny Man, don't do that. Don't do that. You know, don't do that. But um, and when you went on stage, they they stone him down, you know, which was a little bit disrespectful, but I could understand the the the the the people you're trying to stop. He blues are get pets, you know. The pelts super blue and runny and then the blues are getting pelt. It was just as it grows. So um, I mean, but but is he is is a and and the love that you feel, the love that you get, those soccer acts get. Right. So we used to do a show called Girls Go and White, right, right, many years ago, which was a ban, a band fed, right? And um I remember this is 90% Indian people, it's a chutney event, right? And Stalin came into that show to perform. He was one of the guest performers, and he was performing, I think it was at 2:30 in the morning, right? Where another man comes in there and started singing black man feeling to a party and flatten the place. When I tell you, flatten it, you know, and the love that you get from that crowd for both soca, chutney, whoever it is, you know, the the culture of Trinidad and Tobago is phenomenal. You don't see that kind of energy, that kind of love coming from a soca event. Yeah, I don't mean it badly, but it's a fact. No, it's true.

Corie 46:38

I mean, in fact, in over the years, I I could I could remember the songs and the artists who were the I don't even want to say breakthrough because it's one culture, yeah. But like Lotella is an example of it. Wherever he goes, he was loved, but but Lotela loved. I don't know if he could have performed his catalogue in some of the fetus and he could be.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

No, yeah, Lotella, yeah.

Corie 46:57

I agree with you, and even big, big songs, yeah. Now, this is cultural time, right? Because you bring up venue and thing. I know you had done it in town and and and Skinner Park is home, but I saw recently where the government has made some changes to the amount of venues that are available for Canada as a promoter. Let me take some water.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Yeah, if you had to refresh anything, you need more coffee and I I I I I feel like we're continuing to drink water until you finish answer that question. Yeah, yeah, let me hear you know, yeah. So we see if I can answer this politically correct.

Corie 47:43

So the recent change, I see the government make some changes in the amount of venues that are available. So the stock of venues changed. So I see Brian Lara uh Academy is one that that closed up. I see so far so good with um Skinner Park. It looks like you're good for for 2026. What's your thoughts on it overall?

Honoring Legends And New Awards

SPEAKER_00 47:59

So I'm good for 2026. You sure? Yeah, that that I think, you know. I told you before we started this interview, right? I told you I tend to focus on my stuff. Gotcha, gotcha. You did say so. Yeah. So I don't have anything at Brian Lara Stadium. So, you know, one day somebody from the media called me and said, Well, George, what are you thinking about Brian Lara Stadium? I was like, hold on, I'm in a meeting, I have 10 people in front of me. I was lying. Right. Um, and call me back, please. You know, and I didn't take the call for the rest of the day because I didn't want to comment on it. I mean, I I feel for the guys who have the events at Brian Lara Stadium, I know what they're going through. That's fine. Um, 90 days before carnival to come and tell somebody that your venue is not available when you're planning carnival six months before is really um a challenge. However, 90 days is still a long time, right, for you to be able to make the changes that you have to make. I know that Prestige made the change and they are now going to um Skinner Park, right? So they were able to fast to get their stuff in order very quickly and and put the, you know, there's some guys and the Stanley Promoters Association wanted to take the government to court. Bad move, you know. Um, I think that was a terrible move. Um I understand the challenges that they face, but I think there are other ways of dealing with those kinds of problems, you know. So, I mean, I really have no comment on it at the moment, as I apart from what I just said, right? But um, we're good at Skinner Park for now.

Corie 49:32

And um But if that changes, you change because I know COVID will be a big adjustment and you continue the competition through that. So if you if you again use that even you change, the competition comes in.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

I'll tell you something, right? One of the phenomena about events now is that your online audience is actually the bigger audience, right? So your TV show, your TV package is actually the more important package than what is going on in front of you in terms of where you are, right? And and how many people in front of you. So as I tell people, once you see we have um a show that's that's that's being broadcast on TV, that does your TV audience want your international audience, your streaming, your your your people are looking at the show online. That's a big, big, big audience. And that's the those those are the ones you have to really. I mean, yes, you want the people in front of the stage to have a good time, right? And you make sure that they do.

Corie 50:26

Yeah, the audience is part of the show in a way sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

You know, but um, but the online audience is is what is uh the TV packaging now of these shows is what is very, very important.

Taking The Brand Abroad Again

Corie 50:38

Okay, okay. A little more kankerang and lacquery because artist expression, right? Artist expression, right? I've been saying for a long time, and let me let me let me let me parallel trinny bad music, right? And the Zestany Steam and things now, where there's a lot of heavy criticism on the youths now for the type of lyrics that they sing. I guess if I could tell my position on it before, I think artistic expression is a funny thing. You know, sometimes with music, it's so um personalized as if somebody's saying about pick up a gun, they're making an outer and pick up gun. While movies, which is another artistic expression, it don't give you the same. You watch violent movies all the time. You went through something like that around 2011, 2012 as well, right? Because the the one of the criticisms, you know, you take it one at a time. One is one was your rum songs. It was too much of rum songs encouraging drinking and mashing up the household that was against some of the kind of things. They were saying that for some time before. What was it? What was your thoughts on it when the complaints started happening?

2026 Format Changes And Live Screening

Risk, Budgets, And Staying The Course

SPEAKER_00 51:32

So Trinidad and Tobago and Carnival is a rum culture. Trinidad and Tobago is rum culture. I doing my part to contribute to that. Right? If you go into a bar, right, you cannot tell me that a bar, when you go in, is only Indian people sitting out drinking rum. It's Trinidad's, it's Trinidads. Everybody, everybody who in the village sitting on there, whether you're black, white, green, yellow, whatever color you are, you're all sitting out together and you're enjoying a beverage, wherever that beverage may be, right? With regards to rum songs and songs that were I never I never wanted to to um censor songs because I felt that the expressions that people come out with, the lyrics that they write, songs that people come out with, calypso and soca and chutney, it's a story. So it's storytelling, right? And it's basically storytelling of things that may be happening in their village. So if someone comes and talks about um wife throughout a husband because he's drunk or something like that, right? Maybe something that happened is a story, right? But but it's a story, you have to take you have to take what what the message is, you know? No, we got a lot of licks for it, yes, and everybody classified Chutney as rum, right? And in 2012, I think it was, we actually banned rum songs. So I said no rum songs at all, right? That was 2012. Um, and we got no rum songs, and in 2013, I didn't say anything. I didn't say it was banned or anything like that. Right? Nobody came with rum songs in 2014, um, but in 2013, so 90% of the music was rum music, huh? Was rum songs. So when we stopped the rum songs, so just pick up on it and re because you listen to most so they have some intonations or rum and partying and whining and ever since, right? So, I mean, I can understand, right? But anyway, so for about three years, nobody sang about rum. And then people like they forget I said no rum songs in 2012, right? And they came back in 2015 with rum. And I was like, Okay, yeah, you know. So, I mean, what we've tried to do is we've tried to keep songs. Domestic violence is definitely out. I don't allow anything with domestic violence that somebody holds our battle and beating our woman on stage and all that because we've seen that on stage already. Yeah, we've seen that, we've seen people depicting that on stage, which is not good. You know, so we stopped all of that. But I mean, I cannot see how rum could encourage somebody to go and drink rum in our bar. That makes absolutely no sense. Yeah, yeah.

Corie 54:26

It's still adult choices, I suppose, at the at the end of the day. So, where do you screen it when the guest submissions you do three songs?

Level Playing Field And Tokenism

SPEAKER_00 54:32

We actually screen the songs. Oh, you do? Yeah. So this year we actually have a live screening for the first time. Oh, nice, right? So we're gonna have three people sitting on there. Um live online or live in person? Live. Um, we we're actually doing live and recording clips. Oh, that's nice. So that will come out on social media as well. Um, so we're gonna No, I want to write a song just to get banned. I want to so you know, um, that screening, one of those three people, will I actually be one of the three people. Now I don't judge Chutney Soker, right? So semi-finals and finals, you will never see me sitting there. And it's only at the finals they will come with a piece of paper and hand it to me. So everybody, but you know, um I have a nickname when Chutney Soka is going on. So they call me Judge Singh. Oh, nice, nice, nice. Instead of George Singh, right? So people find all kind of names to call me, but it's okay, right? But so um, but the thing about it is I feel that it's important for me to sit down in the screening because after 31 years, I think I know what I'm looking for, you know? And I could, I, I, I could, from a screening perspective, I could tell you, okay, this is something that we want on stage, or this is something we don't want on stage.

Corie 55:46

Yeah, I suppose it's your name behind so much, you ought to be responsible for the final product. Yeah, because I get blamed. Right, of course. Right?

SPEAKER_00 55:51

So I get blamed for the wrong music. They blame me. I, as I said, I don't write these songs, right? I'm not responsible. I've created a platform for them to sing these songs, but I am not writing these songs. So we have had meetings, constant meetings with artists, okay, producers. I talk to the producers about the topics, you know, I talk to the producers actually about when somebody comes with a song. You know, if you know the song is not an acceptable song, send them back. Yeah, but sometimes they take it because they want the money to produce the songs. You know, so um, but but I talk to producers, artists, we meet with them, you know, constantly. Um, I have an open door policy also. So anybody could call me, my number is in the public domain. I take calls um all the time. Um so I mean, yeah.

Corie 56:41

I guess at that point, is putting aside personal beliefs on business, I do what's best for the brand overall. Yeah, yeah. I think another another controversial thing in Chuckney Soka has always been the criticism of the creativity part. Oh Mass, before I go to that, 2012, you said no rum songs, people did it. Did it diminish the quality of the competition or or it creates more creativity and innovation?

SPEAKER_00 57:01

So so it it did, it did um it did it did probably nurture a bit of creativity. Um, I think that one of the things that we've pounded into people since 2012 is lyrical content, you know, lyrics, very important. Make sure your lyrics are good, you know. Um, I think Soka suffers from the same thing too, you know, the lyrical content in some of these sounds, locking bad. You know, when I write a song, tattoo is in it, and I see whole song.

Corie 57:28

I was writing this up on stage, not any studio.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

I was no good partner. I was, you know, I love you, right? Yeah, but um, but but it is what it is, you know. Um he might write half two words in his own, but he's a win so come because his song has vibes and everything else, right? And people love it. You know, so at the end of the day, yeah, you know, adjustments.

Corie 57:49

So you made the adjustment as well when it came to the the kind of sampling of whether it's Bollywood music or bad jans, he was taking a lot of melodies. It's part uh for me, it's part of the there's the way genres evolve sometimes, but it's have a vibe. When you hear somebody like Ravi B, take a song and do it over, it have an energy. But I remember you said at one point in time, did you stop it? Or so we never stop that.

Future Vision, Succession, And Evolution

SPEAKER_00 58:09

So let me tell you um, our definition for Chutney Sokha is any song that has an Indian melody mixed with the rhythm of sooker is considered Chutney Soka. So if you really take that and you and you you analyze it, right? Any song that has an Indian melody, people take that definition of Chutney Sukha and they beat us with it over our back. So basically, from year one, right, when you look at Ajala, who had the song Sonani, Sonani was an old Indian song that he just took and redid and brought real energy to the song, right? Um, it was a great song. Yeah, absolutely. And I think he did well with it as well, right? Um, you know, so so really and truly, Bollywood, Bollywood melodies, now, even Mangal Patesa, who has been a great resource for me. He's he's been a person I have gone to many times to ask questions about different things, you know. There's a certain level of creativity in taking a uh a Bollywood song and changing it. It's not something we encourage, but I tell people, now I tell them and say if you're using a melody from a song, make sure you have the copyright um paid up, make sure you're in form cut, right? And you get the whoever it is permission for the song, and you have to give us a piece of paper seeing that you have permission.

Corie 59:28

Properly sampled, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:29

So, I mean, that's that's what we do, but um any song that has an Indian melody, make sure you're remote so is canceled Chutney so.

Corie 59:37

Okay, so you could enter with it. So Judd singers, you bring up Judge Singers. At the time they say Ricky, Jai Kalsenal. They say they say they have they need Ricky and they need Ricky for the competition, so they had to get Ricky. They said the same thing about Marshall for a few years well, you'll remember in so come on up.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Yeah, so I remember um so in the early years, Sonny Man won first, Harold Al run won the second year, I think Ricky won the third year, right? Um, and there was this particular artist who said what you said, you know, kept saying to me, you know, all your Tifin, Ricky Jai, Ricky Jai, Ricky Jai, Ricky Jai, Ricky Jai. You know, and I said to him, I said, you know, it's only when you win this competition that you will know that this competition is completely fair. You know, and he went publicly and he said that he felt that we were we were dishonest. And then he won.

Corie 1:00:28

All he was honest, though, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

He won. And then he came to me and he said, George, I have to apologize to you. Oh, he did. Right. Um, I really thought this the competition was rigged, but I realize now that it's not rigged. You know, and that and that and and that guy went on to win several times as well. Right? Um it's unfortunate because there are some people that win. I remember one year somebody somebody came second, and not gonna call names. Right, and the man and his wife abused me online for about 48 hours, non-stop, non-stop. I mean, I screenshot the messages, I have them. I do, you know. Um, you screenshot them too. I see it, I see it, I see it, I see it. I get abused 48 hours straight, right? And then they said, never coming back, Chutney Sukhan, never coming back. You're unfair, you this, that, whatever. Next year they entered and they won. Right? They won. And they went on to win a couple of years, you know, and then eventually they lost. And they came somewhere around fourth or fifth or something like that. And it was fire again. You know? They wanted the Ricky Jai package, you didn't get them the Ricky Jai package. Um, and I was like, come on, are you serious? When you win in this competition, it's fair, and when you lose, it's not fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, is that fair to me?

Corie 1:01:53

Well, the nice thing is once you do them things publicly, people see it for what it is eventually, you know. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Yeah, people. So that's another thing. I leave social, I leave them, you know. So people will come and write all kind of nonsense on my page and I leave it. You know, I I I say to people, I want people to see how stupid people are, yeah, you know, and what they write. The only thing I tell people on my page, do not like if a man comes and write something about David Wiz and say David is so and so and so and so, I will I will delete it. I will delete it and I will bl I will probably delete that person or block them or warn them. You know, I do not allow people to come and abuse other people. Or all of a sudden you see my page and then you see two people having a fight in the comments section of the page. Have you seen that? You know, if somebody put up, I will put a post and then down below you have two people quarreling or some shit. No, you know, that's good, it's good for the um for the for the post. Yeah, but not useful, you know, but not good for the yeah, not useful.

Corie 1:02:53

You're not useful, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you said before we started that you don't pay a lot of attention to the um to the others, right? The parts of business is watching your competition all the time. And I was looking at um the origins of Chutney Soka Monarch, and then looking at our competition also recently, where they have uh uh a Chutney version or a Chutney Soka version and an intellectual Chutney version. One of the things that I found was um unique about the competition, right? Let me choose my words carefully now. You said, for instance, you have a definition for what qualifies as Chutney Soka with the blend of the Indian melody and soaker music, right? Uh, what I saw in the competition, particularly with some of the people who won the competition, was songs that my, I mean, my ears can't be trained by any stretch of the imagination. But I feel like noise at Chutney Soka. And I hear songs that I don't know if I would qualify it as Chutney Soka. In which competition? Uh, the intellectual, not the intellectual one, the other one, the Chutney. I don't know what they call it, Chutney Monarch or whatever it's called. And um, I think it's by National Chutney competition. And um, I see one one comment to mine as Nylo Black Monday. I know these songs, songs play on radio all the time, but I don't know if anybody would define it as Chutney music at all. Thoughts on it? You pay attention to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

So, um okay, so let me deal with intellectual first. Sure. Right. When was the last time they had the intellectual Chutney? So come on.

Corie 1:04:14

It could have been it could have been two, three years ago. When was the last time they had it stopped?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

I don't even know. It stopped. That's the most important thing, right? It don't happen anymore, right? It's not happening, right? Right? So it and it didn't last very long, right? Um that Chutney monarch thing that they did, right? For many years before that, it didn't happen. You know, so that has been an on and off, on and off, on and off. That particular year, they they they they for some reason they went on the same night as us, too. So it was done on the same night. Now I don't have a problem in anybody doing another competition, you know. But gosh, don't go on the same night now. Give people if you want to do another competition. Okay, it's a form of development, it's good for the industry, right? I will support it, I will even hype it on my stage if you want it to, right? But not if you're on the same night with me, you know. Um, but Nyla Blackman coming back to that. I mean, definitely was not Chutney's song. It was a chance.

Corie 1:05:19

Okay, I thought it was my own trainers here. No, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

It was a soaker song, it was a very popular soukha song. There's nothing in the song that had Chutney in it, you know. So I don't know how she won the competition. Um, I don't think people were paid either for that competition. I might be wrong. But if anybody was paid, they could probably inbox me and let me know. But as far as I know, nobody was paid. Right? Um, and all my people were paid. Oh yeah, right. So but I knew that that competition um had we use that trend had a bubble in it. Yeah. That bubble, and I told the artist that from Beginning, I said you're not going to get paid. Yeah. Because the ministry ain't could support that. I see. Right? And so said, so done, the nobody got paid.

Corie 1:06:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

As far as I know.

Corie 1:06:10

I didn't realize the intellectual know that you say it, but I always wondered if the in the word intellectual is a strange word to put there, right? I always wondered if it was in direct response to the complaints about Chutney Soka and the only singing about Roman Woman and the band. It probably was. Yeah. Yeah. But it ain't last, as you say. No. Okay. All right. Uh, a couple more things I have on the way you structure this show. You typically, on almost every occasion, every year, take the opportunity to honor somebody who would be a legend in the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

Well, we started doing that, yeah. We we did it the first time in 2013. Legends of Chutney. And we did it a couple of years going back um where we did honor certain people. So important to you? Something that's uh I I think it's important. What we have been trying to start actually also is the Indo-Caribbean Music Awards, right? Which I think is a very important event, which may happen also very soon in 2026, um, early. We uh actually went through the process already. We have everything, all the results, everything. So it was a vote, it was a whole process that went on, started somewhere in July. Um, and we were supposed to have this show in November, we didn't get funding fit. Right. Right? There was no funding fit, and and that show is a show where we invite artists as a black as a kind of black tie kind of event, cocktails, kind of thing. So it's not a paying kind of event. Yeah, more like the Grammy kind of setup.

Corie 1:07:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:31

But so we had to get funding fit, right? Yeah. Um so I mean, I'm hoping if we don't get funding, I told I told my staff that we're gonna have to find a way to pay for the first year. Either we take funds from Chutney Soka Monarch or something like that, and we do the Indo-Caribbean music awards as part of the whole process of carnival, you know, because that in itself is another project that I believe will motivate and encourage artists to excel by winning an award, a music award.

Corie 1:08:03

Well, congrats in advance, right? Because you know when you say that you're gonna do it. Nah, nah, we're gonna do it. But I did hear Avi B complaining about because what the Caribbean Music Awards, I think is the same is, right? They're doing a great job, yeah, but I heard his complaints, I could hear the frustration because it's like the the and and last year passed, and I don't think the category was so so he made noise the first year, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:22

Right, that they had no Chutney Award, and then the second year they gave him an honorary award, like a lifetime achievement kind of thing.

Corie 1:08:28

Yeah, yeah, I like to keep quiet.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:30

So the Chutney Music Awards, it's not the Chutney Music Awards, it's the Indo-Caribbean Music Awards. I see, so it's expanded beyond. It covers all the different categories of Indian music.

Corie 1:08:39

It makes sense, and you have yeah, you're fleshing it out in terms of categories, so and it's uh it's it's across the board international.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:45

So artists from oh not Caribbean. So so it's Indian artists that are with Caribbean music, okay Caribbean music. Indo-Caribbean music.

Corie 1:08:53

Okay, but you right so yeah, so I I think that would by by definition the diaspora will come in and you have different yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:00

And you're doing that here, and that's a show we're doing in Trinidad. We we want uh the intention is to do it in Trinidad for the first couple of years and then start moving it around. So Guyana, Miami, New York, Toronto, taking it to the diaspora areas, you know, because we're touching all the all the artists wherever they are in the world.

Corie 1:09:18

Yeah. Uh before we wrap up, I had to ask you about that because I know you said you did Toronto before COVID. Intentions to take Chucky Soviet.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

So we'd like to. We'd like to. We really did intend to continue doing it because I think it was a great success in Toronto, and I knew that it would have started building. Unfortunately, COVID stopped it. We haven't been able to get it going again, but it is our intention to probably have it going again.

Corie 1:09:45

To continue it. Yeah. And as you say, this year is a big year. You have a you have a yet to be named, you go find out soon big soccer artists coming in sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

Yeah, we have some big soccer artists inside of there. Um the show this year, I think, is gonna be really nice. We are we are packaging it very differently, right? So it's it's really packaging for TV. So that live screening, for example, is something that we've never done before. So we're looking forward to that. I think that'll be an exciting aspect for people to see those that that can't sing, you know, and to have those controversial, those controversial moments. Yeah, that's nice. We will tell you keep cutting grass or something.

Corie 1:10:24

You know, um you need a uh a Trinidad got talent kind of finishing it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

So that is happening um and also um the semifinal and any final. The final is at Skinner Park. It's on the it's on Valentine's Day, Carnival, Saturday, 14th of February.

Corie 1:10:41

Nice, nice, nice. So let's just talk about your legacy before now because when you started in this thing 30 years ago, you have any idea that you're here still and landing in this now? No, no kind of intention later.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

I didn't think that I would last this long um insider Trotney Sukamona. I never thought for when we started it, for example. I mean, I never thought it would grow to the extent that it is now. I didn't think that it would have had the impact that it has um today. I really didn't think that we were going to. I mean, I knew that it was something that was would happen in a big way. Um, I knew that it was something that was important for the industry. At least I felt that way, right? But I really didn't think it would reach the point that it is. Now, every year in doing Chutney Soka Monarch, when you start planning, right? And you first do a draft budget, you're talking about an event that costs millions of dollars that start there, right? When prize money included, right? So it's millions of dollars you're talking about, and really and truly it's a very risky thing. So when you're really think about it, I never thought that I would be going down the road. Sometimes, I mean, I have done semi-finals already without knowing that the government giving you money, which is risky when you really think about it. It's not risky, it's crazy, it's crazy, you know. Um but I mean, thank God the government continues to support it. I think they've recognized the importance of Chutney Sokamana, it's well established on the on the carnival um landscape in Trendal and Tobago, the Caribbean, and the world, you know. Um so I mean, we're happy to be be here and continue doing it.

Corie 1:12:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'd like to. I mean, with the current prime minister, there was one point in time you had a two million dollar Chutney Sokamana prize. Anything you want to announce now? No.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:33

Um, I mean, I wish I could announce it, but but let's talk about that for a while, right? So one of the things that I always said and I was always fighting for was a level playing field, you know, and um I always said, you know, it it they always treated Chutney Sukha as a lesser, a lesser event. So when we gain a hundred, a hundred thousand, I'll just use another figure. Sure. 100,000, this one gained 500,000 or a million, right? And I was I would always argue, why is that? You know, what what is wrong? Why? You know, and when Kamala Pasad Bisessa came into power in 2012 or 2011, um, one of the things that she announced the day before elections, it was a Sunday. I see, right? Before election day Monday, she said two million dollars for Chutney Sokamona, two million dollars for Sokamona, two million dollars for Calypso Mona, level playing field. And boy, my phone went to the case. I can imagine, you know, George, you just hear that? So we all went and we voted for Kamala Pasaji, right? To make sure, to make sure we get our two million. We did, right? We didn't we did get it. Um, but it was the first person, right, that really recognized the fact that, okay, you know, we have to do a level playing field. Now, PNM came into power in 2015 and things went back like that. You know, and one of the things I I met with the current minister, Minister Benjamin, and she asked me a question. She said, George, what's one of the biggest challenges you have? Right? In inside a Chutney Sokamonak, in doing Chutney Soka Monarch. And I said to her, I said, Minister, there's a word I'm going to say. It's an ugly word. I said, but I want you to write it down.

unknown 1:14:19

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

She said, Well, what word is that? I said, tokenism, right? I said, and tokenism is what I have had to deal with for the last nine years, right? And you know, I I feel terrible about it because I feel that at the end of the day, what we have done. Okay, so I'll give you an example. Okay. Ultimate Shutney Soka. Ultimate soaker, sorry, of course. Ultimate soaker monarch. First time they do any show last year, and um, that was never around before. It was the so-called reinvention of soaker monarch, right? We were in our 30th anniversary, and they got a million dollars more funding from the government than we did. Come on, yeah, yeah, yeah. You serious? You know, and we're not even hearing about that this year. We don't even know if it happened. You know what I mean? So they they have to recognize what Chutney Soka brings to the table. Um, it now has created an industry that is a very, very large industry, an industry that not only um covers Trinidad and Tobago, but it expands through the Caribbean and through the Caribbean diaspora, through the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, when you have artists now performing in South Africa, in Holland, in England, in wherever, the Netherlands, wherever, right? Um, I mean, come on, you know, this is really something that's really happening. And really and truly, the event is a very, very important event for the Trinidad and Tobago cultural development and the Caribbean.

Corie 1:15:46

Yeah, it's you can't argue it. You can't argue it because um let me let me say panorama. So if you had to make you know it's make a mount rush more of things, right? If you had to do a mount rush more events for Carnival for the last how much of a year, I'm not sure that you could leave Chutney Sokomark out of it at all. Yeah, tokenism is an interesting word. You personally, you feel like you've been appreciated for the efforts you're putting to.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:09

So I have said that I'm gonna write a book before I die. But unfortunately, they will not be able to publish that book until I die. Because when I call names in the album, might cause your death. Yeah, they will kill me anyway. So it's better a death. Right when I publish that book, you know, but but there's interesting stories. I mean, what I have had to endure doing culture, right? I don't think anybody would have tolerated. You know, it's really been a terrible, terrible space, you know, and I don't see why we must have to endure that kind of thing. You know, Indian culture in this country is really treated with tokenism, you know. Get them that hold up and stay quiet.

Corie 1:16:54

Yeah, you say tokenism, I always say it's like an afterthought a lot of the times, you know. So that is wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:00

That is wrong, and that needs to be fixed. You know, and that's the one thing I spoke about when I met with Minister Benjamin, tokenism. You know, I said that's the one word I'm going to leave you with, you know, and remember it. Write it down, you know, because that is something we cannot tolerate anymore. You know, and I feel confident that um since our Prime Minister, Kamanapasarbi says, it's now the Prime Minister, um, that she will deal with issues like this because these are things that we've had to deal with. Um, let's see.

Corie 1:17:31

I hoping that I'm hoping that we could hear news on it because I I agree. I agree that it should be equal. Uh I have I have thoughts on the funding of competitions on a whole, but once you're funding competitions, I can't, in other words, that somebody's making a decision.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

I am not saying give a million dollars.

Corie 1:17:46

No, I understand what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:47

I'm saying if you're giving a hundred dollars, yeah, give a hundred dollars. I uh well, I agree with that.

Corie 1:17:52

I agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

So so I I always feel I always felt two million dollars was too much for one song. Man coming and singing one song and asked and you get two million dollars.

Corie 1:18:00

I mean, I must see why Marshall and asked about the price, no. He must tell yourself, you know, I mean he done collect some of them two million back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:06

Yeah, you know, I mean, I'm not saying that they're not they're not valued, sure, sure. Right? They have value. Um, I and I think it's important to recognize that value. Um, I mean, our minimum price at Chutney Sukamark is 30,000. And I think that is a a good price that anybody coming on stage. Yeah, they can at least cover that out. Yeah, you know, they know they're collecting$30,000. This is a lot of money in any in any um any space.

Corie 1:18:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, yeah. Uh just just as as we wrap up, your future. We're we're we're seeing it go beyond the book. You're gonna continue to do this, your past.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

Well, yeah, we I mean, um South Texas is a company. Yes, I've been a face of the company, but my sons are a young men who are very much in tune with what is going on. Um, so I believe that they will continue the legacy. Um, I think it's an very important legacy that we're leaving behind, um, that I will leave behind eventually. Um, so I mean, whoever continues, I would like to I would like to think that Chutney Soka Monarch is something that would be continued for years going on. No, music, you said it, music is is an evolving thing, sure, right? And music continues to evolve. And I always say that what you're hearing today, and and so is a good example, you know. What you heard with soccer music in the 90s, for example, what you're hearing now is completely different, you know, and so so much so for Chutney as well. So that what you're hearing today in Chutney Soka may be very different 20 years from now, 30 years from now, it may be called something else, right? Um, but but that's fine because music is a is is an evolving thing that will continue to evolve, yeah, you know, but once it it is coming out of Trinidad and Tobago and it's part of our culture, then it needs to be supported.

Corie 1:19:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you see the culture thing, right? This is personally, no, no, no. Yeah, that culture thing, it's so important to me. I'm glad that I appreciate your frankness on it because I feel as though we have parts of the culture that relegated. And it's a thing we refuse to talk about, we refuse to bring to the fore, we refuse to say, well, all right, why one treated less equal than the other one, you know? So I appreciate you. I appreciate you talking about that. And like I say, I typically do a little bit of research before I have everybody come in here. I was looking for the interviews where he was complaining about these things where man though to uh those we had a wait for the book out.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:21

Yeah, I I don't, I don't, I tend not to complain. I mean, um, I don't think what I said here today is a complaint, right? It's just it's a fact. It's a fact that this is this is what is happening and needs to be fixed, right? But I am not one to complain. I actually I tend to deal with issues in a different way.

Corie 1:20:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we appreciate it. We appreciate your dealing with the issues, and uh anybody who has done anything for 30 years has gone through a lot. So we appreciate you sticking it out and and and bringing it to where it is because as I say, it's one of the pillars of our carnival. And I hope too, I want to join your call as I say, not a complaint, but I want to join the call to see when all the pillars of our carnival can be treated on a even feel respectfully, you know. Yeah, so I appreciate it. Thanks very much. David, does anything go on? David, let's do it.