The Truth About the Entertainment Industry No One Tells You | Simon Baptiste

Simon Baptiste, founder of Question Mark Entertainment, joins The Corie Sheppard Podcast for a deep dive into the business of entertainment, global ambition, and the realities behind building a career in the industry.

With over 25 years of experience, Simon shares how he went from Trinidad to working in Los Angeles, producing films, managing artists, and bringing international talent to the Caribbean. He breaks down the power of relationships, spotting opportunity, and the “angles” that helped him open doors most people never even see.

The conversation explores the evolution of Trinidad & Tobago’s entertainment industry, the challenges facing soca music globally, and why Caribbean creatives must think beyond local markets. Simon also speaks candidly about artist management, navigating difficult personalities, and the unseen work that goes into building successful careers.

This episode is a masterclass in vision, resilience, and thinking global from a small island.

In this episode:

• How Simon Baptiste built Question Mark Entertainment
• Breaking into Hollywood and the global entertainment industry
• The business of events, film, and artist management
• Why Caribbean talent struggles to scale globally
• The realities behind managing artists and building brands
• The future of soca music and entertainment

#coriesheppardpodcast

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Simon Batiste

Corie 0:00

Welcome to the Corey Shepherd Podcast. Welcome back to everybody who's been listening. Welcome to all the new listeners. David said looking to the camera again, so we're here. Welcome back. Thanks for subscribing to the Patreon. Thanks for supporting the merch, right? One of the other areas of feedback that I keep getting is that we need to introduce the guests. But the problem is that I do not know how. I have with me a guest today who has been in entertainment for how long? 25? Much longer than I've been alive. 25 years. And has been, when I look at the background of the guests today, he has affected my life in so many ways, including within the next coming weeks. I want to welcome Simon Batiste to the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Absolute pleasure.

Corie 0:38

People might know the name Question Mark Entertainment. Like we're hearing it for a long, long time. Right. But coincidentally, I just scrolling through my Instagram or Facebook or one of them things recently, right? And I see Donald Rawlings in Trinidad. So I buy two tickets immediately. I say, wherever is he, VIP, most expensive. I want to be where he is there and he's sweating. I want the sweat to land on me. Right. I saw him recently. I went to the um in Florida and Chappelle show and he opened for Chappelle.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

That's right.

Corie 1:04

Yeah, so I got to see him and I I hope that people who like stand-up comedy come out and see this show. But this is your show. You're you're the person doing this, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Well, I mean, you know, you you get involved with partners, you know, to produce these things, but um, I'm I'm certainly one of the faces behind it. And uh I mean I think comedy is naturally in our blood anyway. I mean, if it's one group of people that know how to not only, you know, give a joke but take a joke. For sure, for sure. On both ends, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um naturally I felt like if uh you know a few years ago I started looking at the landscape, what was there, and and and what I could really position myself into in different things, and and comedy came up as being one that I really felt close to. I'd done a lot of events in the past anyway with comedy, but people just don't know because I think I I do the worst PR job ever on myself. I don't I don't literally go out there saying, hey, you know, I've done this and I've done that. Right, but you know, but over the years uh I I've I've found myself getting involved in different things, and then I'm like, oh okay, well I can do this too. Right. And that's how it came up.

Corie 2:12

So comedy was just you getting back into events and trying to find a niche?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

I think certainly uh in the times that we live in where there doesn't seem to be a lot to laugh about, right? I mean, the the world that that that we're faced with today, uh with the good uh and and some would argue, you know, technological advances, etc. Right. But the fact of the matter is that there's also a lot of stuff out there that has us perplexed, has us scared. You know, we live in a sort of fear where we can't say anything about anyone else. Yeah, or anything, right? Or anything. Right. And and I think that comedy is the one stage where it's actually the most serious form of content because they're saying things that we all want to say, right, or need to hear, but it's being done in this sort of mask, right? And so that's that's how I view comedy as Israeli social commentary that's safeguarded, but I guess I guess especially the good ones, the good ones force us to see issues a little differently.

Corie 3:15

Yeah, so issues that might be heavy for us, they find a way to, you know, like people say when you laugh about something, that's when you know you're over it. Yeah. So they kind of push us gently towards hey, all this happened in the world, but the world is still a good place, or you could look at this thing differently. So, how come Donald Rowling?

Why Comedy Feels So Serious

Corie 3:30

What made you all decide him? Donald?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Well, actually, uh Donald and I have a connection in that we made a film together. I produced a film called uh the The Rise and Fall of John Tessoro, starring Jerry Bednob and Donald Rollins. So it goes uh you know a little bit back, right? Right, and then beyond that, um uh I've always been fond of his comedic style. I brought him to Trinidad many years ago in those sort of formative stages, and I did that with a lot of comedians, Leslie Jones, who went on to do Saturday Night Live and Ghostbusters and all those movies, of course. Um, Tony Woods, who is uh considered to be Dave Chappelle considers him his mentor. I mean, man, there are a ton of comedians I brought in here, and and so it's not just me studying something from scratch and know and know the environment. Got it, but uh the ones that are doing it now, um Lurie Lee Singh and and and Junior Lee and uh Jerome, you know, all these guys who are producing shows here, I think they're phenomenal, right? You know, but we need to figure out how do we now transcend from just what we're showing here on the ground to a regional or even uh uh international space.

Corie 4:43

Yeah, I had Cindy Anne Boson here, and she was talking a lot about that. She was saying that in the local comedy landscape, one of the disadvantages might be that they don't have comedy clubs, there's no comedy club circuits to work out your jokes. Right. But I always wonder if and you have the experience with bringing comedians here. I always wonder how well they translates in the local environment. You know, we like anybody with accents and things, we can, especially in comedy. Somehow it's working other genres, but comedy is like, all right, we're gonna get it.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

They could crash and burn too.

Corie 5:08

Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

You know, they come and witness that, right? But I think what it is is that uh comedians like Donnell, you know, Dave, you know, uh Bill Burr, I mean there's so many of them that uh understand like from the time they get in, decision for material. All right, they they land at the airport, you know, they go and they they grab a doubles, yeah, like all these things they they're gonna incorporate somehow. And and the good ones really know how to do that. Right? Um I think though that you're you're not just going there to hear him try to translate our you know what he he gets hit there as well. It's because you enjoy stand-up comedy, right? Right. And they're they're telling perspectives of life, right? Whether it's romance, right? Whether it's you know the job situation, you know, it's what's happening around us, you know. So you're going for that, just like you go to say uh a singer or musician perform their art.

Corie 6:08

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Right?

Corie 6:08

Yeah. So well, I guess that's me. Yeah. Because I from the time I see it, I don't know who a matter of fact, I didn't really realize like David was telling me we had this schedule. I had no connection between the two.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Right.

Corie 6:18

I just see Donald Rollins, I say, quite it does not matter. That's he's he's just that guy to me.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Right.

Corie 6:23

No, the other thing I worry about with with with well, at least me from a worrying standpoint, a worry nervous kind of guy. Yeah, events on a whole are a little scary for me from a business standpoint. Yeah. So for this, how is how is it going in terms of the response to Don L and people, people buying tickets, they're coming out, people supporting it?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, I mean, it's a great question to ask because we we live in a time in which, you know, I think there's a lot of uncertainty, right? Uh fortunately, we tested the model uh in January. We did a show during Carnival. It was for the most part some a great lineup of of our own local comic stand-ups, right? And then we also had uh Ja Paul as the headliner, who's Trini but is Canadian, right? You know, and and he was terrific as well. And people were just really I think what what was impressive in terms of the turnout, because we had maybe at that time uh 70, about 70 percent of the theater that was full, but it it demonstrated to us that people are really interested in stand-up, yeah, you know, they just want something different, they they they weren't aware for the most part, because we have a different marketing strategy, perhaps to to the comedians who are actually doing it here. So what ended up happening was it wasn't necessarily their audience, right? It was just an audience that came in to see stand-up and were were superbly impressed by what they saw. But when I when I do anything, be it an event, show, concert, you know, uh summit, the reality is that I don't build something just for us. Uh what we did with that particular show, and we're doing for the future of the shows, is that you know, we brought in April King, Jamaican, but loves Trinidad as always for a carnival. One of the top executives in the entertainment game has broken deals on Netflix, and she saw what we have, and we worked with ADL and we we we taped the show, and now we're actually trying to package it as a POC or pilot so that we can get more shows like that developed and produced. So we could go to Jamaica and do the same thing, Bob Badis and do the same thing, and then all of a sudden you turn onto Netflix and you have six episodes of great comedy, but from our people.

Corie 8:33

Yeah, I wonder what that's a lot. Like Netflix has been going in that direction for a long time, right? Stand-up comedy, you would remember Comedy Central being that hub. Of course, yeah, everything was there, yeah. And then there was a huge gap. Like where HBO

Choosing Donnell Rawlings For Trinidad

Corie 8:45

did it for some time, but I guess HBO does top of the top. Yeah, maybe twice a year see a special come out from somebody. Yeah, but no, Netflix special seems to be the thing that even Donald Rowling just put one coincidence.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah, he did Netflix as a joke, I think.

Corie 8:56

Yeah, yeah, right. And he did his own, his own um, he released his own special. I think Chappelle did four comedians that he platformed. I think it was Earthquake Lunel, Donald Rowlings, and somebody else was missing.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, yeah.

Corie 9:07

But you you see us being able to hold those spaces. Uh we know Willware or Trinidadian comedians could have a special on Netflix.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

One of my first shows that I ever attended uh as as a as a child was Paul Keynes Douglas, you know. So I I I know we're very capable of doing what we have to do. The the the two challenges are that one Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, these networks that exist aren't gonna do it for us. Right. And if we just sit around waiting, you know, it's not gonna happen. Right. So we ourselves have to just, you know, say, hey, we're we're gonna commit to this. But but then I think the the other challenge is financially, because you you know that more than likely in doing it, right, what's gonna happen? You you're gonna, you know, make you know, make a loss probably on your first attempt. You know? Um, fortunately, when you make enough losses, you kind of like yeah, you kind of like figure out, oh, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

But I would say that loan. I got them again.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Um but but the reality though is that um uh in in this particular situation, no, I I think that we we're gonna do well, but we're gonna do well not because it's just Donnell participating, but because we have great local stand-ups that have that will prove themselves again and people will start, you know, there's a day when we don't need to just bring in a Donnell, right? Of course, of course. It's gonna it's gonna attract a certain crowd, right?

Corie 10:45

Yeah, it's something I see as a trend in looking into your history too, because you seem to focus not just on us and our domestic market, but what we can represent globally. Yeah. Is deliberate in terms of the way you approach business. You you have to.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

I mean, uh we we we live on an island that as beautiful as it is, I mean, and and taking into consideration the amount of things that we've accomplished, um we're still not globally recognized, right? And people may not like hearing that, but but it's it's the truth, right? You know, it's like me going to Greece and and and in the streets of Athens, always being asked, you know, hey, you know, where you're from, because we're we'll I think we're lovely people, right? We're always friendly, we like talking or whatever, you know, and be like, where are you from? And I'm like, Trinidad, and like Canada? And I'm like, no, still, yeah, yeah, still, right? So it it's it's a situation in which I want to change that, and I want to change that through being able to create product that we can export, you know, so that it's not just uh a matter of great music, but it it's in all facets of what we do, be it in arts, fashion, music, dance, theater, you know. Um, so so that that's why I'm I'm so interested and invested in that. Because I think that we have a lot of work to do, but it's not impossible. We just have to start working together. Gotcha.

Corie 12:11

Yeah, that might be a challenge, is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah, that's the that's the that's probably the impossible part right there.

Corie 12:15

Yeah, really? Yeah, you know. I want to come back to that, but in terms of you going out to somebody like Netflix, like somebody like me creating a product, I just don't know how. So when you you casually say, hey, I produce a movie with Donald Rollins before, it's like how do you get to those spaces and how do you how do you get those meetings?

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yeah, that's a really good question. I think it really comes down to believing in yourself and and just knowing that it's not what you know but who you know, right? And so over the the 25 years of of me doing this, it you know, I've just uh I've always looked for angles and something. I'll give you an example because I think a lot of times people don't understand what it is to look for an angle. So uh there's a time in which I would go to LA, right? And LA's like a stomping ground for me. I worked there, and you know, I in fact my formative years in entertainment with were working with Boys to Men and their managers, right? Janet Jackson managers uh uh John Dukakis and Quadri Elamine. So that's where I got my start. And so going back to LA over the years uh and and building these relationships, you know, you I used there was a time when I used to love clubbing, right? Going out and uh and enjoying myself with other friends, etc. As the LA club scene, as the LA club scene, but the LA club scene is all a list system, gotcha, right? So to get into those places, you you need to be on the list, and you know, looking at who I am and where I came from, that wasn't an easy prospect. And I certainly I'm not a talent, right, in that sense. So what what I discovered one day was I'm just very observant. I stood up outside the club and I noticed there's always this guy who will come and whisper something to the the bouncer's ear, and the bouncer will be like, all right, you, right? And and that person will get in. So I went and asked the bouncers, like, you know, is that the the club owner imaging? Because I'm immediately thinking, right, I have a ball of Angus or Romanica, maybe I could give it to them or whatever, right? So uh he's like, no, that's the bartender. I was like, oh, that's interesting. So then on another event back home in Trinidad, they were like, hey, we want to do something different. And we did, you know, we

Recording Local Stand-Up For Streaming

SPEAKER_00 14:30

still do events and coordinate events. So I was like, hey, why don't we bring some bartenders out of LA, you know, and let them, you know, serve drinks, they'll do it flair and they'll do it a little bit differently, whatever. And they were like, they were sold on that. So I I looked for all the top clubs, right? I brought in three or four bartenders from those top clubs. And so after we did the event and they had a great time, I went back to LA. You connected. I could get anybody in. Right? You know, so now I'm walking past celebrities, right, who are just stuck on the outside. And, you know, it's like, how is this person getting in? Like, you know, they're curious about you. Now they're curious about me, right? But but again, it's just really angled. You have to figure out what's the play, right, in order for you to be able to move to that next level. You know, it's not not that I'm smarter than anyone else, it's not that I have more money than anyone else. It's just about observing, and and through that observation process, you're like, oh, yeah, okay, wait, I think I know how to beat the system. Yeah, there's a hell of an angle.

Corie 15:32

And my mind would have told me when they say bartenders. I meant to give up right there, but it's and you brought in bartenders sort of as talent because maybe at that time here bartenders was just whoever you get to serve drinks, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yeah, yeah. This is this is uh mid 2008, 2009, around there, I guess you could say it was. So it was it was a time not that we didn't have good or great bartenders, it was just that, you know, I was playing my hand in hey, maybe this is something that could work. Makes sense, makes sense.

Corie 15:59

And it doesn't always work, yeah, yeah, of course, of course, of course. So some of them early days, like because you're saying you were in LA and so on, you grew up right here, you were home. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Born and bred.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Um uh I I I grew up in, I was laughing, right? Because there's a sort of stigma sometimes attached to these places you grew up in.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

I grew up in Valsain, okay, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

But but to be clear, I I grew up in the Valsain that was Swampland. Valsain and the Swampland and then they dread it, right? My parents were from Trinity, right? You know what I mean? I don't have to explain to the to the audience, right? But my father's from Korum, my mother from Tullipuna. So before anyone stands and this Valsain, it's not this Valsain, right? That Valsain is a different kind of Valsain, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:46

And I love it for who it is and what they are, but but you know, now it's a different time, man. And schools where you went to school as well. Um, I went to school, uh, Trinity. Right. Right, which I mean, I have to tell you, man, like that was the best experience ever. Best experience ever. Here we go. Like, like, listen, I I came out of Marie Regina, right? Right. My parents, my parents are publishers, and and because my dad was the editor in chief of the Catholic News, he was able angles, of course, right? He was able to get me a Marie Regina, which was this prestigious, you know, school, of course. And but our Marie Regina, I was very young. Um, I was 10 years old when I took common entrance back then. That's right. And so they were like, oh, well, you could do over here. And and I went to Trinity thinking, hey, well, you know, I'll I'll you know, I don't want to stay back with those other guys, yeah. You know what I mean? That was torturing. So um anyway, so I I I go to Trinity and I have to tell you, man, that was that was such a beautiful learning experience because if you if you ever think like you're you know, there's a kind of level of thinking you develop, I think, in schools that are curated in a certain way, and Trinity was real. Right, right, right. Like they were there were experiences that allowed me to grow and mature as a human being, and you learn to appreciate, right? Like, like I think that there is a level of appreciation that at that age, you know, you picked one at first, right? But then you learn how to defend yourself as well, right? Like in terms of just uh being coming mentally sharp and things like that, and and just this system, a lot of really bright, outstanding youth and talent. And man, I was just I'm from Trinity. Yeah, but I mean, I I think I would have been a different human being altogether if I went to my my father and brother went to CIC. And I just feel like if I if God didn't want me to go on that path, and I went a different path that allowed me to become much more grounded. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if that makes sense. It's not that I'm saying that. Samaris no being honest. I've I've you know what I mean, love for my friends and Samaris and who went there. But no, it's just that for me it's what I needed.

Corie 19:02

Gotcha, gotcha. You know what I mean? So and then you're studying um business subjects, science, where you're doing in school then.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Uh so I I was always business and arts since then. You know, loved history, loved literature, you know. Um, I think that's in my blood to uh journalism. And and so I then went to University of Miami. I see. Right, and at University of Miami was where I really started, uh, you know, just I you know, you there's so many things that happen to you on a different level. And we know it from from where we live on an island and what we enjoy and and and what it is that we experience. But at university and and specifically living in the states, there are things that happen to you that really just flips that in such a way that that you really start identifying or doing things differently. You know, so um, you know, beyond all the great experiences I had at university, it was also the the first time I had dealt with racism in such different ways, right? Like, you know, sunblasting, you know, 3-4 in the afternoon, just jogging around campus and being stopped by the police to be asked what you're doing here.

Corie 20:16

It's like campus police and stuff for regular police.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Yeah, this is regular police, yeah, yeah. No, but I mean it's it's not to say that there are a lot of good things that happened, of course, yeah. But those things that happened that were somewhat negatively uh impactful in a way

Building Exportable Caribbean Culture

SPEAKER_00 20:30

also grew you to understand the world that you live in. Because the things that wouldn't have happened in Trinidad, per se, right? Like I mean, it wouldn't experience it. You know, um, but the things that happened there really started making you see things like, oh wait, or this is what the real world can really be like. Where you know, because although I do think that there's a lot of division in terms of politics and and what we have down here, which is just absolutely foolish and and just downright atrocious, right? Um, the reality is that you know we really grow up loving one another. And even as well, yeah.

Corie 21:06

You know, it's funny because a lot of people who study abroad, you might be the fifth or sixth person who said almost exactly that. Right. There's that eye-opening of what is seen as when you go into these spaces.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Absolutely.

Corie 21:17

So you you you benefited from navigating that and just understanding it.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Oh, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because now you you know you start to recognize that the world isn't as protected and insulated as what we have here, right? Which is makes us beautiful as well, right? Like they are things, you know, I always try to look for the beauty and in who we are and and and what we represent from a Caribbean standpoint. And and of course, those differences uh also extended to that you the the African American experience and the the the black or or people of color experience in the Caribbean experience. It's two different things. You know, we we've always grown up knowing what it is to have a person of colour that's Say as a leader. Of course, of course.

Corie 22:02

They may not have that. They may not have had that.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah. Up to the time, I mean, I went to university, there was no Obama. Right. So there wasn't that there as well, right? So there were a lot of things that I think we benefited from, you know, that they uh were still dealing with, right? There's this this this sort of like cage that sort of exists in the states, right? Um you know, you still see it nowhere.

Corie 22:27

Like I see that discussion between black Americans or foundational black Americans with Caribbean people. And it's it's different experiences. So much we could learn from each other. Yeah. But as you brought up Obama, it's so funny. Like my little brother, he lives in LA now, he studies um film scoring. Right. And I remember when Obama was elected, me and my father know we halfway in tears watching this thing and Jesse Jackson in tears. And my little brother then might be four, five, six years old.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Right.

Corie 22:52

And we call him, he's like, Jonathan, come, look at black man president. He said, That's what you call me for. You know, and that always stood out to me. Because he born into a world where we might carry a lot of that thing where all the leaders in the states are white or world leaders are white. But as far as he's concerned, it's like, man, I'm busy. You come in to see some man, I don't care about it. And even the way you see him navigating these spaces now, because he he he went to school in the states and he had some of that experience, so he maybe he understands it, but it's just unique to see how the perspectives change over time.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Yeah, yeah. And and and again, time is is the one factor that allows us to change, right? And and because we have to adapt, we have to understand what's going on. Yeah, there's so many different pieces to that.

Corie 23:36

You know, so what what do you went to study in Miami? What where you went for for university?

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Well, I I studied uh well, I I came up with a uh Bachelor of Science in Communications. Um I majored in motion pictures and history, and I did uh uh uh minors in business um and theatre. I can't really remember. So arts and business, that's it, it's it stayed with that. Yeah, pretty much.

Corie 24:01

So your exposure starting from there in terms of because when you're talking about producing films and stuff, you yeah, you trained in this. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

I mean, uh most of your training, sad to say, really happens when you're on set, you know? Like you could spend four years there, you're not you're not going there for the four years for that reason. I'll tell you why you're going there for the four years. One, because you want to impress the parents. Of course, yeah, to get out.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Your parents want to be able to say to auntie and uncle, well, you know, my son ended up graduating and like, you know, you know that I kind of say it differently now.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

It's like, oh, I'm really going to university for you. Right. Right. Um, and I think uh you're also going for the worldly education in the sense of you know, you're you're dealing with groups of people that you you never dealt with before. I up to the point that I went to university as an example, I'd never had, let's say, Jewish friends, right? Like I didn't I didn't know what that was, you know. But I mean, you know, to be quite honest, right? But then the idea of being able to understand them, their culture, things like that, you know, and of course it's just different mindsets, right? And you get into arguments and debates, and and so uh I I looked at it as really um a school of thinking, right? Uh because now coming out of it, I could appreciate certain things, uh, cultures, you know, uh what people have gone through

The Bartender Trick For Access

SPEAKER_00 25:30

a little bit more than than just being here, you know? It makes sense, it makes sense.

Corie 25:34

It's it's adding up in terms of the way you approach some of these things. You could see that's where that some of that international drive comes from. Because a lot of a lot of again, looking at your work, there's that global feel to it. And uh again, most of the people who sit here who've achieved a lot tend to look at not just the 1.00 million here or the 7 million in diaspora or whatever it might be or Caribbean, but but what's happening abroad. Yeah, so at that point in time you're graduating university, you're looking at working where you're trying to do then. You're looking for a job here.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Well, I was always working, right? Because part of it was, you know, you're trying to earn extra disposable income. Well, yeah, of course. You know, so so I I'd done at that point, man. I I tried all these different things. I worked in a in a a camera rental facility where I thought I was gonna learn about cameras, though I learned was how to clean the boxes that the cameras went into. Yeah, good good information. Um, yeah, I I I did a few jobs on set where I would work as the production assistant, you know, like those sort of things. And then I I moved out to LA, started uh working there too.

Corie 26:42

But but where was you to move to LA at the point?

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Hollywood was where it was at. Like everyone believed in the dream, you know, more so back then than they do now, where people are running from Hollywood, right? You know, but back then it was about going to Hollywood. Uh but our challenge, uh, especially being um not from their country, we're not residents, we're not citizens. I um, you know, I have one passport and I'm I'm proud to have one passport, right? Um but that being said, you know, I was under this form of work permit where if I didn't have a steady job, right, I would have to leave, right? Because the company has to sponsor you. I think back then it was like H1 visas, like it was a whole different kind of ball game. And so um a friend of mine called and said, Hey, I know you're doing these sort of like you're running on set doing production assistant work, and I was doing just wherever I could go and do work within movies, I was trying to find it, right? So they were like, a position is opening up at this company that's growing, it's an entertainment company, you know. And so I I went in and I met with with the manager, you know, and John Dukakis, who I learned a lot from, right? Did the bamboozling part of it, right? Like, hey, because you know, it's like, oh, university student, right? Just ready to go, you know. Oh, but you know, and I was like, hey, I'm doing motion pictures. He's like, yeah, but you know, we're gonna do that soon. Boys to men, we're gonna go into film, we're gonna do those things. They never did. Um, you know, but but the fact was I was like, oh, okay, he said all the right things. Of course, yeah, right? And I think that's one of the things I started learning very, very early, right? The angles. This this is a game of, you know, if you have to get what you want, you you sometimes you're gonna sell the dream. Understood, right? So you're selling the dream to the person and you sell it to the person you're trying to do business with, the person you're trying to work with, uh the artist or the talent, you know. Uh you're selling the dreams. Gotcha.

Corie 28:46

So, what was he interested in a film student for? For like videos and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

No, no, no. It doesn't work. Come on, man. Are you true? Yeah, pull it up. You don't buy the dream already, you know. Don't try to elevate me beyond where I need to go. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

No, I mean, listen, come on, I was fresh out of university, right? A lot of these companies, whether they were CAA, right, um, HBO, right, it didn't matter. They they wanted young blood who would come in, they're just ready, they're just like, you know, go get us, right? And they'll do all the crap that you fed to them. You know what I mean? But I learned certain tricks in that trade early. Like, for example, you know, there are things I didn't like doing, and you'd be like, oh, you know, make me a coffee because you're an assistant. Get a custom, right? You're an assistant. So I deliberately learn how to make the worst coffee in the world so they can get you stop. Please, um, is there something else you can do? Yeah, you know, so then I graduated from that to reading through contracts, like and just sending it out like agreements to different, you know, promoters and things like that or whatever. You know, so it it it it saved me from one meaningless task. And it gave me a task that was just pure, you know, it'd keep you in the office from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. But then I just started, you know, uh reading through all the documents. You know, John's probably not gonna be happy to hear that. Yeah, but you'll learn probably. But that's how you know you learn, right? You're like you you inundate yourself with all those different things, right? And just like just flooding all the information, yeah.

Corie 30:25

I'd ask you because LA is real expensive. Oh, yeah. So at that point in time, you're getting paid enough, you could sustain yourself audience.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Well, it it's funny. Back then, I'm I'm trying to remember. So this is basically I know. Sorry to say this to you guys, but if you can guess by now, so this is the the mid-90s. Okay, okay, right? So uh this is a situation in which I was getting maybe about 2,500 to 3,000 US a month, which was really good. Yeah, then back then, right? Um, but the reality is when you're living in those places, it's it's pretty expensive, you know, and and you get caught up in your lifestyle, right? I mean, so you want to emulate the very peers in your office who are kind of like very, you know, they're gonna demonstrate that too, you know? And so all of a sudden, this the stuff that really should be there that you're earning that can go into savings, do things, or whatever. You know, you you well, because you're you're trying to match up to what is out there, yeah, yeah. Oh, and and oh, yeah, you you come out of it realizing, uh so what ended up happening was I left LA and I came back to Trinidad for a couple of weeks. It was just supposed to be a vacation. Um, and I spent, I think at that time I spent more than a year and a half, you know, with with the entertainment company. And I was just like, I was so unhappy with myself, man. I just for the first time, without that rat race of just running around doing things everyone thinks you're you're glorious because the group that you work for, you know, that probably doesn't even know your name, right? But you know, sold 25 million albums or whatever. Um and yeah, we were getting free stuff all the time. So they were sending, oh, that's the other great thing about working in these companies, right? Like, you know, when your artist rises and you learn that when any artist rises, all of a sudden, you know, rebuck, Nike, they're all sending you free things, right? Nice. And most of the time, I don't even think they're really reaching the hands of the artists. Yeah, I guess, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

The assistants are like, oh, nice, you know, oh yeah, MSI's dead. Yeah, right. So um, you know what I mean? Uh Sean or whoever from the group is like, oh, nice shoes. These were your shoes, Sean. But but I'm glad you like them.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Um, but no, man, it was it was a fun time learning times. But but I guess what I'm getting at is when I came back home, I really started realizing how shallow of a person

Trinidad Roots And US Culture Shock

SPEAKER_00 33:00

you can become in an environment that fosters it.

Corie 33:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like I saw that night life scene in LA. So it's it's just a little plastic. Yeah. And I guess it's about it's about that opular. You have to show that you're doing well to do well. It's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Yeah, it may have changed now, but back then the first question is what do you do for a living? Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

Corie 33:20

And if you gave the wrong answer, that conversation done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were out. So at that point, you're trying to find back that that joy and trade.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

I'm trying to find back who I was. Because you, you know, you you get so tied up in in everyone else's world, right? And you're like, well, well, who am I really? And so fortunately, um uh I did a you know, I I quit my job. Um, I did a stint at the Inter-American Development Bank where I helped develop some programs there uh for youth and media network, which was like a uh a television show um uh that that allowed us to go and discover youth, but also give them a platform in which they can be seen. We we created a deal at the time with the Trinidad Express so that we could also bring out like a monthly newspaper on youth. You know, so we we try to do things that were.

Corie 34:14

That was through the IDB at the time. Okay, so how do you know the IDB looking for people to do these kind of things? It's just advertisers and the applyable. Um I I honestly, man, I can't remember what I did yesterday. Yeah, because when I see IADB, I don't think that at all. We can't try to figure out whether career party goes, but you're doing the same thing in their context.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

I think in terms of the IDB in that particular situation, Frank Morasco was the person who ran the IDB at the time and was very much one probably one of the few IDB guys then that was like, no, let's let's try to do something different. And I can't I can't remember how the call came out. It may have been because someone in the IDB knew what I had done uh in terms of my work with you know abroad, and and and it was just like a referral, uh, you know, and that's probably how it it came up. But I think the beauty of of getting into that situation was I started discovering the kind of talent that we had. Okay, right, and fortunately, Kiskity Caravan had done a lot of the work. I mean, credit to those guys, they you know, they really discovered and nurtured talent, and and it's such a shame that we don't know how to keep shit going. Right?

Corie 35:28

Like we always find a way to like name it, there's a finite time. You could say synergist or custom, you could say Kiskity, you could say party time.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

What I I don't wanna say it's a curse, but man, we we struggle, you know, we start up some you know brand new thing in in a sport, and then everyone's happy with it, and then three weeks later, the the the the guys who partnered on it decide that you know they're gonna one wants to start their own thing. Like I don't know where that comes from, but but essentially through it though, I I ended up discovering uh talent by the name of Precious Magadan and Diamond Cut. Oh right? Oh, and and there was also another guy, of course, called Super Child. Of course, right? So I started working with those guys, and we we we formed a group called Tribe. This is before the band Tribe, so Dave. But anyway, a totally different type of band. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? And um I just went back to doing the things that I used to do, looking for angles. So um we got uh Dwayne Sumal, uh, I think he was called D Squared or D3, I can't remember all these nicknames. He used to work for Biggie Smalls and all these guys or whatever. Um and Danny Brownie got involved as well. And I can't really remember the chronology of all these things, but um uh before I started managing them fully, meaning Precious and right, Magadan, who became Maximus Dan, who became MX Prime, um I took up an opportunity to work with Danny Brownie in Jamaica at Main Street Records.

Corie 37:13

So Danny Brownie's from where? He's trending? Jamaican. Jamaican, okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Jamaican. I believe I interviewed him as part of Network because he he was handling an artist called Red Rat at the time, and Red Rat broke out with the song uh Shelley, right? That of course was a global hit. So uh how how we would work out, and and I was just again fortunate to be mentored by by someone like Danny at the time, who was really an incredible, just an amazing producer. Right. Um and he took me under his wing. I ended up doing like special projects for them. I went on tour with them, created our first documentary, you know, uh filming them. And if it was probably the first representative documentary of dance all artists going, you know, around the world. Right. So we're in Japan, Africa, uh, UK. Yeah, that's when they had kind of main street crew and things like that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, the whole main street crew. Right, right. It was just such a beautiful time in music too, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. But it it also gave me the opportunity to create uh situations that were that were workable situations for our artists back home. So, you know, uh Precious ended up doing some tracks with some some uh Hawkeye and some other artists, you know. Um uh Magadan put out a single, you know, uh on uh one of Danny's rhythms. Yeah, I can't remember the name of the rhythm now, but yeah, yeah, it's just you know, time of it. Oh, actually, it was the same rhythm with Heads High. Yeah, with very and I could almost remember the song, you know, yeah. Yeah, do you see what I see? Yeah, right. So we we were doing things, but but I I think that stems from the fact that I I was never scared of trying something different in that respect, right? Professionally was like, I have to lose. I'm either gonna, it's either gonna work or not work, and then I you know just get up again. And and so that that was how my career really started taking a turn because uh with John and Quadri, I learned the office side of things, right? Um contractual law, you know, how to deal with people, you know, like I listened to all those conversations, so I really got an idea of what that was.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

And then when I worked for Main Street, you know, I really understood what it was like to go out on your road and deal with a completely different sort of personality, you know, because we didn't have those sort of personalities. These were these were stars, huh? Well, when when people forget about Red Rat. No, listen, when we went to Uganda, we went to Uganda with Red Rat at the time. I'm talking about from the the airport um to Antibia, I think, which is the city center, right? Um that must have been I I want to say it was 45 minutes to an hour. And what made it so long was because the streets were lined with people on both sides to see Red Rat. So he would stick out his head like Michael Jackson and wave. This this stuff you can't make up. You know, it was just glorious, right? Yeah, you know, witnessing this thing. And then, of course, um, there's this kid. This is like it would have been a meme today.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

This kid literally ran from the airport following us all the way. This is like this is a 20-mile track. This kid does this, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:45

And but but it it shows you how our Caribbean music is so powerful, right? Like and how it touches the very heart strings, right? Pulsing the heart strings of people. So that so when I when I had that experience at Danny and I, you know, and I and Main Street and I came back to Trinidad, I was like, man, I want to create that here. That was really what where it all started for me in music. I w I wanted to create that here.

Corie 41:11

So it doesn't feel like you should just like for me hearing this, I'm not sure that I come back, yeah. You got nerds and I out. You always had that wanting to come home to do it.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Um, I I I think now home is home, man. You have to love the place and what you do, and it's the people, and you know, so home

Getting Started In LA Entertainment

SPEAKER_00 41:30

is home. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? I would have won that that Trinidad t-shirt with the Trinidad thing, but it got too tight.

unknown 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Um too many pounds, so I can't wait anymore. Um but but I would say that, yeah, man. I mean, it there's a a deep love for hair, and and that I think is why I never left. Like I could have. I mean, there were job offers, there were people interested in in what it was that I was doing. And every now and then I'm reminded by someone who has when I when I say made it, right? I don't think that I haven't made it, but someone who's really like broken, you know, past those walls that that that we set for ourselves or whatever. Right. You know, that would call me and be like, man, you know, I've just got nominated for this Academy Award. You could have been here right alongside me. What are you doing? Why don't you come here and work like so I've I've gone in those calls too. But but in the end, um, you know, uh Trinidad and the Caribbean as a whole, you know, I I want to be a a leader who can champion for us on on you know globally on that on our platform.

Corie 42:41

I with you. And the same way people might even remember Red Rat. I mean, people know when they say Red Rat, they had to Google that, you know, it's just an hero.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Yeah, yeah.

Corie 42:47

But um, Precious was one who shows out like a rocket team. Oh man. That that that first single.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

So talented, let me tell you. Um she could do everything from RB to hip-hop to to dance all, right? I mean, and and was uh was so fluid, and here's this, you know, this and some of the stuff that she wrote was so raw. And I'm like, I know you've been locked at home, right? You know what I mean? For you, how are you coming up with these things? And this is before really the internet had had that sort of impact on us, right? Social media.

Corie 43:24

All the experiences outside them days, you had to be outside, and but but she was writing like a very mature artist, and I was like, this is scary, you know, and but we have so much talent here, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So much talent.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

It's just crazy.

Corie 43:37

At that point, you're seeing yourself as a career in talent management because you do talent management, production, film, events, you do a lot of different things. At that point, you're seeing it as that's where you want to go.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Well, I I think it it started off with events, right? So I I I ended up getting to business, uh, and she's still my business partner today, Carolyn Page. Right? She is sort of that person where if I come with an idea. She has that machine gun and bazooka ready to shoot it down. Okay, go to drag it down.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

It doesn't shoot off. No, no, no, no. She's ready to be like, here are all the holes in this and why it won't work. I like that. And then I'd be like, damn you, Caroline. I'm gonna do it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

And then uh then it fails, and I'm like, oh man, I'm just giving her more ammunition. You know what I mean? But um, no, but but you need someone like that. Of course. And I think the the thing with management, uh, I you know, I I balance between management and doing events because I had an equal love for for both, uh a passion for both. And the fact is that what I discovered, you know, is that with an event, you know, something's going wrong. You could curse all the employees, say, oh man, what the shit you're doing, whatever. You could like literally get into it with them, and because they know, right, that they're getting paid through this event, and this event has to succeed, and we have to do it right way. And okay, did these things. You can't really adopt that attitude with artists. Yeah, I guess, right? Right? But I was I had this sort of like there's a time when Kess used to call me Ari from the show Entourage, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Because I would literally, I would throw bottles, you know, I would do the whole, you know, the whole nine.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

But the fact is that, you know, that personality that existed, right? Uh, especially back then in terms of how you know I would deal with artists, was because I just wanted them to be the best of what they could be, you know, and and I felt like I could either baby and nut you in this process, or I could tell you you're doing crap. What eventually happens is that there are a lot of things that happen in relationships, right? But I think that for the most part with artists, you know, they don't really want to be told when they're doing something wrong. At some point, they just want to hear the yes men, right? Like, oh yeah, great. And you know, and you know, like like res, you know, being resilient to to things could create its own problems, right?

Corie 46:10

But that could be dangerous, no, if you if you just have people who go in and we see it with artists in every genre where you just insulate yourself.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yeah, yeah, it happens because I I think what eventually eventually happens is the person who's collecting the paycheck doesn't want to screw with the paycheck. I guess you you know what I mean? It it literally comes down to yes, sir. Whatever you say, sir.

Corie 46:31

You know what I mean? But you're not talking about that. You you tell them.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

I'll I'll cuss you out. I don't care. I don't care who you think you are.

Corie 46:37

So definitely a runner's talents or something. What are you gonna do if you're chasing talents?

SPEAKER_00 46:42

No, but I mean, listen, you know, the reality is what bar are you setting for yourself? Right? You know, because I guarantee you, even when and take athletes, because I I look at it as the best profession in terms of understanding how you win a gold medal, right? Like you have to train hard, you have to, you know, you have to hear that coach telling you, look, this is not wicked, this is what you have to do. You gotta do it. And sometimes the coach got me wrong too. It's literally what what happens, right? You know, not we're not gonna get everything right. But um, you know, it it's it's a tough job. And I think time, like all relationships, time has that effect where it's like, you know, when you have your girlfriend, you know, and and one day you get up. I'm not saying this has

Coming Home To Build Youth Media

SPEAKER_00 47:30

ever happened with me, right? But one day you get up, right? And you're like, God, how am I still with you?

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Right? I think that that's literally what happens sometimes with with talent and management.

Corie 47:43

I guess, I guess. I guess it's idea, get close. Yeah, yeah, you part ways. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

It's gonna happen, man. Like, you know, look scooter braun. Yeah, but you know, that dude, right? Look, like he all the things he's done, no one's gonna remember. Yeah, but yeah, but I mean, I don't mean in a bad way, scooter, but I mean that's also you know him too. No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Okay, all right, just checking it because the lessons uh, you know what I mean? Probably have to prepare for that with social media, likely based on everything I see.

Corie 48:12

So the question mark, when you when you all started it, you all started it as an event management company, or what was your vision then?

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Oh, yeah, yeah, most most definitely, I think at the time we we really couldn't see, no, no one could predict the future in terms of of artist management. So there had to be something that was gonna pay the bills, right? So we we started off with it, but the way that it came about in terms of doing events and and how that worked out is actually pretty funny. We were we were working at a time with Orange Sky. Nigel is never gonna forgive me for relaying this story, but but Nigel Rojas was one of the most undeniable talents, and to this day I think he he's definitely that, right? But but the fact is back then he was a rock star. Yeah, 100%. And I think the problem was Nigel knew he was a rock star, right? So um uh the fact of the matter is, man, just uh listen, I I can't take anything away from him, right, in in terms of who and what he was. But there there was a point in which, you know, we were supposed to go abroad with with Nigel and do a showcase with them in LA. And what really got us into events is I have to thank Nigel for that. Because Nigel, um, you know, for whatever reasons, I think a lot of it had to deal with trust issues, right? He didn't want to sign a contract with us, and we were like, we're not gonna invest unless we sign a contract. Because our fear was, you know, we take this incredible talent to LA, they get signed, and then they leave us. Of course. Right? And and and for all that that hard work and everything you're done, you you don't say anything for that. So when that in past happened and and we parted ways because of of the differences in opinion, right? Um, we essentially, Carolyn and I sat down and was like, well, you know, we've already raised this money and we were gonna use on this trip. What do we do now? And that's when we invested in Decibel, and Decibel became our real first flagship event. Right. And we brought in Kami Electro, who at the time we didn't know it. We we knew she was kind of like red hot in terms of stuff that she was doing, but then she went into that deal with MTV, she started doing movies. Oh, you see, it would have been just before that. It was just before that on the cusp. Right. Right, and and that was what really broke out uh our names into the business. Because once that happened, it was like question mark entertainment was this big thing. I was like, we were just man, that was just timing.

Corie 50:41

Yeah, really? That was just timing. What was your response to that when you when you put out she trend that responded?

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Oh yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, naturally we we have this thing of of we we gravitate towards what's hot, right? Yes, but then when she came on, she spoke after that first 30 seconds. That was no one gave a shit. Oh, that's it. But I guess the event succeeded already, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

Who's the next act?

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Within 30 seconds, it was like it's over. But but we didn't establish ourselves at that point, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:16

Like it was like, oh, they they they fulfilled it.

Corie 51:19

Right, yes, of course.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

But the the there is a funny story to that, and that is that at the time, Carmen, right, um, her manager, whose name I can't remember, uh decided that because of her fame and popularity, right, they got a they got a movie deal and they wanted to cancel on us. So at this point, right, like you know, this is the point where gonna be Valmon Jones. Yeah, like you're literally crying, you know, adopting the fiddle position, right? Because this is this is make or break. Like your name is gonna be destroyed at this point. So they were doing everything in their power to make sure she didn't she didn't come to Trinidad, and so in a conversation with me, uh, she said something to the effect like basically, what you're gonna do? You're you're Trinidadian, we're we're in Hollywood. What are you gonna do? Uh we fortunately made a connection with an attorney who would eventually go and represent a band called Evanescence, right? That had a hot hand with one track. And and this guy, for whatever reason, he took to us, he really liked us, and I and I explained what happened. He was like, Look, you know, the reality is she's right, there's really nothing you can do. And I I I I sat down and said, Can we bluff? He's like, Hey, bluffing is all part of the game, right? So we called her back and she started. I didn't introduce him right away on the phone, right? I know this may sound a little seedy to you guys, but but they were gonna mess with the trinity first, right? So um, so yeah, so then she said something to the effect was like, Yeah, you all can't do anything about it. And I was like, Well, look, sorry, I've been introduced on the phone. I have, you know, right, the gentleman. And she's like, What? I was like, Well, you know, uh, you you thought we were dealing with our attorney down here, but no, we have an attorney in LA. And then his credentials were pretty impressive at the time. So immediately she asked for a call separately with him, called him and said, We're Americans, we're in this thing together. Oh, nice. You know, that's the angle. He's like, you know, I'm not your kind of American. I always respected him for that, right? And then, you know, essentially she she went with it. But they made it very difficult for us. You know, we had to, you know, do this crazy flight pattern, of course. Get her in, you know, eight hours later on a plane out, things like that. That, you know, just really it makes you think twice about going into events and event management.

Corie 54:00

It didn't make you think twice.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Clearly, you want to do when you win, you tend to be like you think you're invincible at this point, like, oh, I could win again.

Corie 54:09

Right, yeah. Yeah, it it's it's it's when you lose you start thinking. That's a key to position. So coming off of that experience, I I know like one of the concerts we talk about as you tell and Fatim, all of us coming up. One of the first concerts I remember was that CNC Music Factory. Oh wow, yeah, that's one of my first memories. I remember Boys to Men being here. There was an era when those big shows were coming.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Yeah, so well that that that takes a step back because that's before I went to university, right? Oh, that was before. Yeah, yeah, CNC Music Factory, and the Boys was in 1991.

Corie 54:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

And so uh essentially we had we had come out of a a very difficult and challenging time for the country with the coup. Right. And so again, we you know, we knew people, well, me personally, you know, as well as others would have known some of the very young men who would have participated in the coup. Um and I think at the time we were just like uh, you know, we we wanted to do something where we could start talking to our youth, really, you know, trying to figure out what it is that what was the connection, you know. And it was through music, you know, and and that's where I really got my first connection to music. Right, gotcha.

Corie 55:24

So, what was your involvement in it?

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Oh man, um, I was the lead person

Touring Dancehall And Managing Talent

SPEAKER_00 55:30

for Youth Fest, right? Uh, this is where nepotism actually came into play. Um uh my my dad uh at the time he was um the uh GM of the Express, right? And so he had this whole idea of you know how can we, you know, do something. And I guess, you know, father to son, he was like, hey, you know, I want to put you in this thing, I want you to do it, sure, whatever it is. So we we we started this thing where we essentially introduce a lot of people uh who were not before involved in entertainment, got very involved in entertainment after that, right? Um, whether you're talking, you know, um uh I'm just trying to think of names, man, because there's so many. Yeah, I know O'Brien might support me in this because I think there was the first chance for them to test the radio station, right? Um they did like a youth a youth radio station there. Um Steven Dubal, you know, um uh was very involved in Youth Fest as well. Stephen Mahu, right, who eventually went to a lot of club type stuff and promotional type things. Um uh I remember we worked with Tony Charlonon when it was when he was still Chinese laundry and and and we had signal to noise, right? Right. Um Marshall um uh you know performed at the event as well at Youth Fest. Um it was the the first time I I've seen uh a crowd of youth uh get somewhat agitated. We had uh I think it was it was either it was second image came before uh image and company. Yeah, second image was first. Second image was first, right? Second image was first and second image, I will never forget second image, decided to do a rock song. Right, and in within five to seven seconds, that rock song was cut from the set. Yeah, because their morning things that were thrown on that stage and immediately changed the whole atmosphere. But yeah, but listen, I mean, again, all these were great groups at the time, very, very talented individuals who participated, and I for one really had such a love for it. And then of course, um Freedom Williams came on with CNC Music Factory, and then like 20,000 plus people, you know, at the stadium witnessing this thing, and essentially I was just there was this euphoria that you get like as a promoter, like my god, I I know these were my ideas. We did it for the first time on a Sunday, right? It was Sunday, May 5th, right? I think it was, right? You know, and um essentially, yeah, man. Um it was just one of those amazing things because it it it was before the the typical thing that promoters did that you know it was like they saved things, Maxi Priest, yeah, you know, um uh oh gosh, I'm trying to remember this group. Um Rhym's gonna get you. I remember them. No, no. Uh Gloria Estefan. Gloria Estefan. Gloria Estefan. Like, it's just you know, it's like we'll take a chance on these things. So I think it was the first time, you know, I can say that safely, that it was like, hey, we're gonna take a risk on this.

Corie 58:53

Yeah, because when you look at your bio, for instance, the international acts, yeah, who and not not international, Maxi Priest is international, right? But closely connected to Trendar. Is music playing here? Yeah, it's reggae, we like it, we know Maxi Priest. Yeah, if we come safe spaces, right? Yeah, but I think in that in your travels to LA and the connections you made, you bring in people like them. But this is even before then, you kind of had that why you're all identify CNC just because it's your hottest thing then?

SPEAKER_00 59:18

No, so we we had uh again, it's observation, right? Right? So we would get Billboard magazines which would tell us that, oh, this is number one on the chart. But back, I don't know if you remember, you're young, yeah, but back in those days, damn it, my old ass on your program. Um, but but back in those days, right? Billboard would would bring out their chart. So their number one track or number two, whatever, right, would still not be number 20 or 21 in our charts.

Corie 59:54

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

So I'm like, I'm Notre Damist, and I can predict the future, right? Because I'm looking at this thing and I'm like, oh wait. So what ended up happening was we we uh got in touch with a guy called Dan Barnett at Cellerdor Booking Agency, and I remember my dad driving me, I was 17 at the time. What the hell am I doing? And anyway, he so he drove me to Fort Lauderdale where Cellador was located, right? And they'd done all these amazing concerts and festivals, and Dan Barnett was like, you know, the guy there, and we we talked to him about doing an event. So we were originally going with CNC Music Factory, and then we switched to N Vogue, right? And I realized no the CNC thing is hot because they had a second song that came on, right? I was like, okay, right. So I'm just predicting future at this point, right? So so that's how we ended up getting CNC Music Factory. It wasn't like the connection was Dan Barnett at Celodore. But but to find these people. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah, you just have to, you just have to be very look let's cut to Wild on E. Sure, right? Um, or even the MTV show that we brought in, right? How did that happen? At the time, I recorded on a VHS tape the credits for Wild on E show, right? And then saw who the names were for the producers, because I don't know, right? Wrote them down, right? Called E, asked to speak to each one of them, and then eventually I got one person, got the email at the time, right, and then officially wrote them. Right. And they were like, Well, we could come to Trindad if you can make these things happen.

Corie 1:01:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

And it was the same thing for MTV. It was like, we can come to Trindad if you can make these things happen. And and so we flew the guy in, uh Justin Booth, the supervising producer the time for the MTV show. He comes in. Um, I remember at the time Dean Akin, myself, Avanash, and I was saying, I think it was. We we all met with this guy, and Dean was like, Simon, I know, yes, but I have this thing that I'm going on right now, and I gotta really pursue this thing. I'm like, You sure, boy? He was sure. Yeah, he was sure, he was sure. But but we were sure about what we were doing too, until we got a call from the guy who's like, nah, Trendad's not the place. Yeah. So he goes to Puerto Rico. This is how God works in mysterious ways, sometimes violently. Yeah, goes to Puerto Rico, right? And he ends up uh leaving a bar, he and his his co-producer, right? And they get beat up. Oh, right? And he calls me and says, Hey, is that Trinidad thing still available?

Corie 1:02:43

You want to get out of there?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

Yeah. And I did not hire those guys, just to be very clear, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

But but it just goes to show you, right? The fact that he had a say in this says a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:55

Am I that powerful? No, but gone. What was the MTV show? Uh it was called The Gauntlet. Right. And it was uh Railroad versus Road Rules channel. It was very popular back in the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Millions of viewers, and of course, yeah. I mean, so everything that has happened is really just risk reward.

Corie 1:03:12

So let me ask you this: like between now and back then, because some of the things you're saying now song impossible in this era.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

Yeah.

Corie 1:03:18

Like to call up MTV. I don't know that I could call up Netflix and talk to certain people or get their emails. I mean, now maybe I could DM people, but do I expect a response? Is it different now? Making them well, it's now you're properly connected, right? But for somebody who's not, who's starting from scratch at 17, can they make them connections now?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

Hell yeah. More so than ever. I I call it one degree of separation, right? Before they used to have six, now it's just a click. Right? And I think most of the time, what you have to realize is that if you approach it with the mindset that, you know, this is almost impossible for it to happen, then you're right. It's never gonna happen for you. Right? You really have to approach with the mindset of what if I take a shot and they said yes? How do I respond to the yes? What was the follow-up? Because a lot of times people have surprised me and said yes, and I was like, shit, I don't really know what to do next. You know what I mean? I didn't expect you to say yes. You know what I mean? Um, so I I think that there's a certain level of uh bravado and hubris that that one needs to have, right? But certainly it is absolutely possible. Yeah, you know, you just need to have what is the follow-up

Decibel And The Carmen Electra Standoff

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

because if you can't follow up with that stuff, right? It it it's there's a crash and burn involved, of course.

Corie 1:04:36

And I guess those angles and making those connections and networking critical because an MTV respawn, you have a hundred different things that had to happen here, and so the local network is is crucial too.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:46

Yeah, and we were fortunate at a time. Um uh the the minister of tourism, coincidentally, was the same uh uh not not promoter, owner of a venue that that we used to rent.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:01

So it it so it just it just turned out that I could go to the minister of tourism and say, hey, but it wasn't like I had those sort of political connections, it's just the way that life works, that it that those things happen to line up.

Corie 1:05:15

But is a word you keep using like observation, yeah. And I could see it coming true because the truth is you could miss that. Oh, yeah, it's it's very easy to miss them connections, but I suppose you think about it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's the problem. You're always thinking about, you know, what if I could do this? And whatever, and so that could also drive you a little bit insane because you're you're always trying to figure out, like, you know, oh, you know, oh, you know, he's doing that with culture. Maybe I can do this as well. Or like you know, I need a business partner. No, I started to see why this is happening here, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It it really is just a matter of where do you want your vision to go? Gotcha. You know, and and and I think that we we're we're very limited by our vision, especially. Here, you know, because we're so in love with the idea of being not everyone, right? But there's a big fish in you know a small pond mentality that we're attracted to, we get married to, right? Yeah, like um I know clients that I've worked with that we could have put on a very big stage, and when we created the opportunity for them, they came back and said, Yeah, um no, I don't want to do it. And I'm like, why? And they're like, what if I'm laughed at? What if I'm booed? What if they don't like me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? And and these are these are things that have to be worked out for for a lot of people, I guess, because that fear makes them comfortable within the zone.

Corie 1:06:49

Yeah, and it's a really human thing because that that fear of what happens in the next Marshall said something in an interview one time. He said um, he said it's like a video game. He said every time you get past this level, you're starting at the bottom of the next level. You're trying to figure it out and trying to get there. Yeah. And I saw many examples of it. Like I remember there uh was it Bob Marley documentary? He was saying that um, I think it was Blackwell was his name, who was manager, no? Chris Blackwell was saying that he went to the group as the whalers at the time and tell them he wanted them to open for Lionel Ritchie.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:20

Right.

Corie 1:07:20

And Bunny Whaler and Peter Tosh was like, boy, he should be open for we. We're not doing it. And Bob is like, yeah, let me do it. And so that's what you're describing, like things like that, where now you're the big fish here, and I I control the wheel here in this space. And now you're asking me to go on a stage and open for somebody who and there's not Lionel Richie today, there's Lionel Richie when he now and so.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

Yeah, no, no, I don't necessarily think that. I think that um, I mean, artists are always open to the idea of more exposure within this particular market now, which is social media, right? Right, conscious. I think more of like competition, fear of failure, things like that, you know. Like Tessanne was very brave. I mean, to go on the voice, you know, uh after she had established herself in a certain manner, etc., I give her and and and a team because we had literally just parted ways right before. Oh, really? Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um I will say that that that is something where if you, you know, if you're not careful, it could be a career crash, crasher, right? But you know, I mean, hey, there's no one denying that talent, man. And she just went in blows away and she was like, I don't care who all of you are. And she, you know, in all fairness, it was probably unfair because she had so much experience. What what I guess it was established as it's well, yeah, but but at time, I mean, when you think about it, she's performing regularly, she's doing things, and a lot of these other guys may not have had that chance. She's already a star. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They they didn't know that.

Corie 1:08:56

Of course. But maybe it's an advantage we could take off take take advantage of more here. So, talking about that vision, where question mark, where we where were we going next in terms of the events? At that point in time, you're just trying to do bigger events, trying to expose us to more artists. Where was it for you all?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:10

Well, I I I think I've I I reached a point where for events I started taking a different look at how we we created events. So in 2014, right, there were two events that we kicked off almost simultaneously. Um an event called Choosing E Rocks, which was basically uh a matured version, right, to what we did under the trees at Normandy. Then we would we would attract about 800 people or so, right? Um and the the desire to do something bigger, right, and and just establish ourselves within that that that carnival window, right, was something that that uh everyone saw eye to eye with. I can't take any credit for that. That was really a conversation that started between Carolyn, my business partner, and Kess. That's that's where the uh By that time you're all managing Kess already.

Corie 1:10:09

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

We we shoot, we were managing Kess from 2005. Oh, as earlier. Yeah, as early as that. So we went through all the trust answer each every single different form of abuse. I remember there was one time. I remember there was one time, right? This is just these are just funny moments, right? It's not like look, I mean Kess is uh an amazing talent, an incredible individual, right? But I have to say, those formative years, there were some funny things going on, right? I remember being backstage at one event and some guy saying that's the white Bashall Montano, and Kess probably did appreciate that. But but the fact of the matter is that you know what, all those things that we went through, because you look back at it now, and that same person who made that insult probably begging for too much. Right?

Corie 1:11:00

100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

But at the time that you're going through it, you know, man, it it I feel for artist and team, right? Because we're all, you know, people don't understand that journey, you know. Like you're already dealing with so much. You're you're battling family who thinks that you made a wrong choice, right? Sure. You know, you're sure sure, sure. You're trying to deal with the bank because the bank expects that they don't understand what this hobby is. Of course, right? They don't see it as they don't see it as a career, right? So they want joblets and salary and listings. No, no, no, that none of that is acceptable, right? Right? So we're all building. I'm trying to build a firm that's taken seriously. He's trying to build a career that's taken seriously. And so what you know, through those formative years that are molding you into the type of talent or type of manager that you are, right? I I I always credit those managers, right? Like though those managers and and and and understanding where you know it starts from, and you know, because the ones who kind of come into you know, uh position, right? I'm not mad at them, right? But it's a different job. I can see what you're saying. But I think it it's it's reached a point where it's like, yeah, but you don't know how to go through this shit. You know, I mean, let me get 10% of what you make. Yeah, of course, of course. Right? But but the reality is, look, I mean, that is just life. And it happens in all forms of things business and whatever, right? Like, um, you know, you the the the time to be mad has passed, right? Like you you it's a divorce when you when any artist that you work with, you know, um, and it's not just me, I'm not the only one who's gone through that. I'm sure I think there are others in Jamaica that I'm close to that won't call their names, but they've gone through that recently with their artists. Right. But but what you have to understand is that from two two perspectives, one is that, you know, you're you're mad because you know what you had to do and and the and the things that you had to do to ensure that it worked. Right? And I think the other part you're mad at is that you you know that, you know, financially speaking, you know, it's the quickest game where you go from 100 to zero just by someone saying, you know, um, we're we're parting ways. Right? So I I so I get it from that perspective, but then I'm like, I'm probably different in the sense that you know, after you you get over that, you realize, but I was here before this, right? And I'm gonna be here after this. And what is really important to me? What what is it that I'm looking for? What do I want to do? What is it I want to achieve? And then you just and and you take all those lessons learned and you build upon that. Yeah, because I didn't quicksand that's a solid foundation that you've laid.

Corie 1:13:46

Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:46

Right? And then and then you know you do other things and and then one day I'm back. Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? You know, it but but you know, you're doing things that now you love or you enjoy, or it's just a different way that you deal with artists. Yeah, you know.

Corie 1:14:01

Couple of things coming out of that because it's easy to if I um like let's say boys to men. You describe yourself in a situation where you almost disappearing in the background of what Boyster Men is. Yeah, and maybe that's the best way to do the job. Yeah, issues that when they come and they fire me tomorrow, nobody don't know who's Corey. I starting from scratch. Right while you're building the company and building or investing in somebody like Kess or the other artists that you have, you're focused on building your brand and what you all have.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:27

Yeah, yeah, and you have to. I mean, and the reality is there's so many artists that pass through those doors, man. And uh so much, like I said, I always talk about the talent. So when you look at it, whether it was a precious or or a Maximus, who is now MX, sorry. Um Cohen Dubois, um, who we worked with.

Corie 1:14:45

Uh David's favorite personality.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:48

Yeah, yeah. No, another amazing talent, and and I'm I'm very proud of the work we did with him, especially for Sokamonark when we won that year with Turiel, you know, um full blown,

Youth Fest And Booking CNC

SPEAKER_00 1:15:00

um uh man, just so many uh Nadia Batson, right? Some names I just can't remember, and not so. You know, um amazing, amazing talent, you know, um, with a lot of stories. That's the thing.

Corie 1:15:18

So you're talking about people who, I mean, as a fan, right? They're looking at it from the outside in.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:23

Right.

Corie 1:15:23

Some of these people you call in Israel difficult personalities.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

I don't know what you're talking about.

Corie 1:15:27

I know, I know, me neither. But that's some people they're talking about who militants who uh they they they they see the world the way they see the world analyze it. I I'm not sure that I could convince them of doing anything. So, how difficult is that with talents here?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:41

Well, I think, man, look, I I'm not afraid to say anything, you know, uh as I told you on camera, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:48

I mean, but the thing is you don't embarrass people either, right? But I think what what happens is that people can be their own worst enemy, and there's a point where you know you you're really trying your best to save someone, you know, and you realize that you can't do it for them. They have they have to do it.

Corie 1:16:11

Yeah, that'd be on my terms. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I I have to define what is saved for me, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:16

Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? So I I I think that, oh yeah, you're you're always gonna have personalities that are challenging and that will challenge you, you know. Um, and sadly, you know, it it's not always gonna work out. Because I I think the problem is that and the reason why it doesn't always work out is that your vision is bigger than theirs. Not always, right? And and when that happens and and you're trying to push someone into a space that they're not comfortable with, they will tell you, hey, I'm good with second place, you know. I could I could even deal with third and fourth, gotcha, right? As long as I just making money. And it's like, okay, but I can't see the world from that thing because from that angle, because I'm I'm always about, you know, well, forget the money. Let's let's talk about, you know, what differentiates us, what, what, what can take us globally, where people, you know, uh love and appreciate what we do and how we can make it better. And like, so I'm I'm I'm a little bit more in tune with that than some artists.

Corie 1:17:23

Yeah, that comes true from everything, everything that you see. But when you're when you're dealing with those artists, I suppose artists will come and artists will go, right? Yeah, but financially now, if you find me and you see look, like precious is a real good example, right? Sorry to go back there. But it you're talking about raw talent very young. Is a significant amount of investment you as a talent management company will have with it. The money is one thing, but the time and the energy is another one. Yeah. In terms of what you invest in them. Yeah. Is it possible for you? You you recoup is end up making money, is it, is it worth it when you when you look at it spending time with an artist over 15 years of the career?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:58

Well, here's what I'll say to that. I have always like, you know, everyone talks about a superpower. Like, my superpower has always been identifying those who have the it factor. Okay, right? Like, like I literally could be in a room with someone, have a conversation with them, and be able to call Carolyn afterwards and say, Yeah, this person, yeah, they can break the mole. And and I'm I'm pretty on point with that. The problem is that I'm not always the right personality for that person. Understood. Right? So like I I can take them just so far, but then there's that kind of tug of war, right? Where it's like, no, their beliefs are this way, and my beliefs are like that, and so it doesn't work out, you know. And then who knows? They they something else happens for them. Look, we were managing full blown for a year, right? Because I I know what full blown always was, right? Uh just uh just a tremendous amount of talent. But I mean, in all fairness, those guys have also managed and they knew what they they wanted and where they wanted to go too. So, so in the end, it didn't work out with us, not not upset at any of that. I just realized that sometimes it just doesn't work. Yeah, it just it's just naturally what it is, right?

Corie 1:19:15

All mine will end up in cuss out, you're saying this real casually, but I not I because it's that investment is what I'm thinking about because I I know what it would be. Let me use myself as an example, right? So, one of the things I used to pay attention to a lot is when people tell me this is the favorite local podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:30

Right.

Corie 1:19:31

I listen to that a lot, right? Because I don't think it's a local podcast. I don't understand what the word local means. Yeah, I feel is is is um it's a little derogatory, it is, it is. I'm not sure that people deliberate. Yeah, this is why David here, because we have a different way of seeing this thing. David go answer you.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:48

Yeah, yeah.

Corie 1:19:48

I internalize it and I say, All right, it's well, we had to work. Yeah, we had to work because you don't say Rogan is not your favorite local podcast or diary of a CEO. So why we had to be and I would think that somebody who from here should push what we have more than they push Rogan. Why would you advertise Rogan and you advertise what we have here? Yeah, but again, when it's when something is is raw, you're just not there. You're just a lot of work to do. So I know the time and investments and money that it takes.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:16

Yeah.

Corie 1:20:16

And I could do that on my own behalf, but I can't promise I could do that for somebody else and then watch them go to another agency or another manager who then takes 20% of my thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:28

Well, it's business, bro. You can't have many hard feelings on what it is. Yeah, you can't have like it's just business, right? You know what I mean? Um they they they're going to continue to do well. Whoever it is is a client, right? You know, and you're either gonna pray for them, right? Or or you you're you're going to wallow in in some form of of you know disillusionment and and and just hate. And I'm not going there at all. It's just like, look, man, I just for any artist that I've worked with, any talent, any person, producer, partner, whatever, I always wish the best. You know what I mean? Yeah, maybe there's a part of you is like, ah, yeah, you slipped up now.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:17

But I mean, reality is a human, right?

Corie 1:21:21

Like, ah, told you, right? Or you build Tuesday on your rocks and you watch somebody take it and make it Wednesday on your rocks and it's gone and you don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:28

I mean, again, it's just look, hey, you know, the the the the point of life is you live and you learn. You know what I mean? And so the things that you just do differently next time, right? Like, okay, next time I do this, I'll I'll kind of you know do it this way. That's what it is. And you teach others too. Like, you know, but this will come to you for advice, and you'll be like, here's what I'm gonna tell you right now, right? Your best listen. All right, you know what I mean? So so you kind of do that. But again, look, all power to it here's the part that I think separates me a little bit. I am so pro-Trinbegonian, right? I couldn't care whether you spit in my face, not that I want you to do it. But to know that you've gone out there and you put Trinidad and Tobago on a map globally means that next time I go to Athens and Greece and I say Trinidad, they don't tell me Canada.

Corie 1:22:25

Of course, right? Of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:27

So I am there's there's no problem with

Cold Calling MTV Into Trinidad

SPEAKER_00 1:22:30

that, right? That that has to happen and one of us has to do it, you know. Yeah, you you try to be the first person to do it, great. Um, but there there's always an you know another lane. If that one didn't work, you look for the other lane, you know.

Corie 1:22:43

That's fair. So you brought up Sessanchin and what she what she did. I saw Ula Tunji, you touch on him as well. I'm not sure what stage of Ula Tunji's career you were managing, but I know he did this thing in England. Yeah. And when that was you involved there.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:53

That was an US after? No, no, no. Um, Ola, uh it that's a funny story. And so uh so I actually, all right, so so Kes, Kess and Question Mark officially parted ways, right? Um, right before the pandemic. So I always joke. Good time, right? I always joke, right? Like, you know, yeah, um, I always tell them when I see some of them, right, that that's what happens when you message Carolyn. Carolyn created Carolyn went and created the pandemic.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:23

Notes convinced. She was like, if you all will not tour this year, she went and we just start mixing up this little formula. Bat on Iguana. All right, carefully Caroline.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:35

No man, no man. Um, but but the point is that it came at the right time for me, meaning the pandemic, maybe for a lot of us, right? It it allowed us to internalize, right? So I I ended up um really not just wanting to do anything with management. I mean, there were people we talked to and people we tried to help out, but but I reached a point where I didn't have that fire. That had extinguished, like there was no light there, right, for me in it. And so anyone that I worked with, and and and sadly for them, you know, I just didn't have that interest. Like I just you know, I just didn't feel it anymore. And so uh I ended up uh for whatever reasons, I ended up going to um uh Ibitha uh with my wife and and some friends, and I was backstage at David Getter's event, right? And that was when there was like a feeling, yeah. I was like, oh man, right? I like this backstage stuff. I like you know, I I I missed this. I miss telling people, hey, no, you know, I kind of missed that. Yeah, like there was a part of it from a from completely from you know, management, you know, production, like those things, you know, seeing it come together and the crowd responding, right? Because knowing it, it it it's it's everyone's involved in this process, right? You see the artists on stage, but you know there are a dozen plus people are involved in it. So I really felt it after that. Um, I came back home and I looked on my phone and I see a message. No, sorry, a missed call from Tadao. Like, who the hell is Tadao?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:21

I'm trying to figure this thing out. I couldn't.

Corie 1:25:23

Everybody is Tadao.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like Tadow. I'm trying to, right in my brain, I remember who this person is, right? Um, and the thing about it was uh it it was actually crazy because I didn't want to come back and try to manage from the ground up. I want to find someone that was really working in it or whatever. And you know, uh uh at that point I called back, discovered uh Ola was in Florida. I said, all right, I'm gonna fly up to meet you. Right? And that's exactly what I did. I flew up. We ended up going to PF Chang's. Nice, right? And we we we had he had a glass of wine, right? We were there, we talked, you know, I asked him about certain things, right? Um, I felt like the answers he gave were, you know, demonstrated someone who was was very serious about you know what he wanted to do and his passion for it. And and I love Ola. Ola is a very talented super talented. In fact, I would go as far as saying, honestly, Ola has far more talent than any other artist that is up there, right? In my opinion, when he was at you know at that sort of level, right? But the fact of the matter is, you know, we we we went into business together. Um uh I mean he had brought a song to me that at the time, if if I remember correctly, right, he was like Shaf had done a demo on this track, Call Engine Room. And so I heard it, and he was like, Well, what do you think I should do? And I was like, Man, you gotta go and record that. Uh but in reality, I would have told that to anybody after hearing the track it was that that good, right? It kind of left an impression. Um, but we didn't know, no one knew what was gonna happen, you know. Um, and then we went back out on the road and we started getting involved in the same things again, and everyone's like, Yeah, you're back. What do you mean back? Like, I was here before you were born. Like, what are you talking about? Back and amount of times I've like been part of a movement, right? Like it's just reinvented itself, whatever. It's like, you know, and see people come and go, and then they hit you with your back. I'm like, oh get all these. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, so anyway, and so that that's kind of like how it happened. But we were very proactive too. Like, we hit the ground running, we went and we shot a music video, we did all those things, you know. Um, we we really worked the channels as well as we could. And it wasn't the first time we'd we'd As a management company, throughout the years, we had always learned what that was, right? You know, with Kess, it was Soka and Moka. You know, that was the way we we did yeah, the kickoff, you know. With Nadia, it was uh again, uh she had a song called Caribbean Girl. I think it was man, maybe it was Caribbean Girl. Yeah, yeah. And I think she was going to give that song, not give, but you know what I mean. Um, sell that song to Allison Hines, right? And and then, you know, we were like, no, you you you know, hold on to this, right? And again, listen, you know, I'm not here to contest, like, no, Simon, I was the one uh these things happen in conversations, right? And this is what you're doing, right? So whether it was it was because of our encouragement or whether it's because they pulled the trigger, right? The point is that there was that conversation happening that led to something, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:55

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:56

So essentially with with Ola and Engine Room, it was it was developing a relationship where they have to give these guys credit to um Red Boys. Right? Um, and and they did a phenomenal job as as well on production on a track. And then, yeah, man, it it it it kind of set the tone, you know, and and we had uh um what was the song that we had after that? Um yeah, the year after was another song like that. Yeah, another kind of pan like tune, right? Well, I feel terrible, not like I'm remembering. David Gotelli.

Corie 1:29:30

The year after Engine Room, David Ola. Because it was bubbling. I remember seeing Engine Room Party in Isa Eyes a Man. Eyes a man, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:39

Something like that, right? Yeah, yeah.

Corie 1:29:40

Yeah, yeah. But I saw it in um Kyrie People had different, and he was performing in different different is maybe two or three weeks before Carnival or something like that. That was which year? That was Engine Room Yeah, engine room yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. And I mean, you're hearing his song bubbling all the time, and you know, it's a big song. Yeah, it's also a troublesome song to interfere with engineer rumors than a hit from

Artist Management And Hard Truths

Corie 1:30:00

in the 80s and thing already. So for him to just name it Engine Rumor. That was 2023. Engine Rumour 2023. Check with Olave in 2024, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:08

But it was it was yeah, I I think it went by two names, Eisenman and something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Inventor. Right, right. That's what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Corie 1:30:18

When I see him on stage in Caribbean, I was like, all right, this is that's forever music, it's gone. Because the reaction from front to back of the felt with no effort to tell people, but Ola's not you put your hand in the air and wave. It's just such a yeah, his performances encapsulate everybody around him. Yeah, yeah. And uh at that point, I was like, all right, Ola is back, you know. I mean, a hundred percent. So a couple of questions coming out of that because when I look at um Are these are these questions that are gonna get me into trouble?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:42

No, you can still never get in trouble here. Questions are always getting you in trouble, depending on how you answer them.

Corie 1:30:48

I see um Jay-Z doing a uh a reboot of some of his albums recently, right? Right, and one of the questions people always ask is if Lil Wayne is gonna be down.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:57

Right.

Corie 1:30:57

Or they have hits together, you know. I mean, people want to see Lil Wayne, or Jay-Z is in charge of Super Bowl halftime performance, and then people say when we get in a wheezy half-time performance. Right. And then the the the questions that people throw out are the people like yourselves who might know what the industry looks like, right, is that I don't know if Lil Wayne will be in the frame of mind to show up for the Super Bowl the way he needs to show up, or the level of sobriety that he needs to be in. And and he has the hits, right? I don't know that you could could say that he does have the hits, but they said that there was one rehearsal for some appearance he had on his super bowl. It's two and a half hours late for the rehearsal. And it's like, how are you gonna give him his own show? How are you navigating them spaces without us?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:38

This is a quiet time of reflection, one in which we say prayers for us for humanity.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:48

You know, I mean, look, I I I will tell you straight up, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:52

Look, if if I had that level of talent, right, understanding the way you navigate these spaces, I would do everything in my power to do it right. You know? Here's the thing that we don't know human beings go through a lot, and some are able to deal with the things that they go through in their life, and some, you know, sadly played over in their mind. Right? It's sort of like that's a spinning record, you know, and the fact of the matter is that we can do our best to nurture talent, guide people, show them tough love, do all those things, right? But in the end, you know, we don't know what that person is really going through with the demons that they they're fighting, right? Like, like what what that life is for them. And so, man, look, if if it is that you know, someone is going through something, shut your ass, let them right, try to help how you can, but you don't need to go and and and make it any worse than it is because they're already dealing with enough stuff on their own. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so um, whoever it is that's out there, I just pray for them, man. Like for because I know that there are artists on on our radar and off our radar sometimes that that are just phenomenal human beings when they can be that, and then there are times when they just can't fight what it is that they're going through, you know. So my my uh uh my issue with all of that, of course, is that you know, when you look at the bevy of hits that any talent may have in this country or in Barbados or Grenado, right, or Jamaica, or whatever. No, sorry, not going there. Let's deal with so right. The issue that I have is that we've created, you know, a very uh it's it's it's a field laden with minds for them, right? Because if they don't have a hit for one year, maybe the last hit that they had would carry them through. Right? They don't have a hit for two years, what wrong with this person? If you go for three years and something is not working for you, man, that could be your career over. Now, there are those who who who play the what I call the Patrick Swayze game, right? God rest the soul. But Patrick always had this thing where you thought Patrick was done and then he came with ghost.

Corie 1:34:39

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:40

Like like he'll come back, you know, dirty dancing or whatever it is. Like there's there's always a movie that somehow Patrick just emerged again, right? But and similarly for artists, there there is that as well. But I think it's really, really unfair how we as an industry and as a public keep on judging these guys on what it is they have this year. Yeah, that to me, I don't know what what y'all feel that does to someone mentally. Of course, I won't know all the time, but that that is not healthy. Imagine going through you first of all, you already you have a hit song, you already have to do 50 plus gigs in 30 different cities, right? You know, so when do you have time to really sit down, right? And and and function and think about these things. Uh and you might be like, yeah, an artist, well, you can do that. I don't know if that's that easy. You need time to, but pop artists are allowed two or three years off to go and you know work with the top writers, we're with producers, develop a hundred trackless songs, and then be like, oh well, guess what? I can narrow it down to these. We can't even bring out albums anymore. I know Marshall just brought out one, but I mean, he's one of the few.

Corie 1:35:54

You don't see it again. You can't because why, you know, why why why bother? It's something that I wonder about. There's a lot of things that you do and talk about that I don't understand at all. And that is one. Because for instance, and then maybe let's talk about it from the audience uh perspective first. Where so Soca Train was an example of that to me. Remix of Soka Train with Maximum City Time, or then full extreme, right? Is the examples of that where it is not just a hit, it's runaway monster hits that are gonna last forever and then next year that same audience will stand up on you. It's like, all right, I don't, yeah, and you're giving them a year or two extra, which is real grace because sometimes we saw it with JW and Blaze, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:35

That's right, that's right. Right? I mean, um Maximus, uh, you know, I I will always just know him as Maximus, right? Because that's how I managed him, you know, uh throughout those years. But but the thing with with Max is that he is such an exceptional talent, um, and there's no denying that. And I but I don't think he would disagree with me when I say that he will confront you, right? If he doesn't like something. And this is an industry that doesn't want to deal with the confrontation, right? It would prefer to sweep something under the rug, you know, rather than can like like come to terms with what this is. And because of that, he is an artist probably has suffered, right? Because he speaks his mind, right? And you're not gonna talk over maximum. No, yeah, yeah, direct. Yeah, I can't, right? It's humanly impossible.

Ola Tunji And The Engine Room Run

SPEAKER_00 1:37:30

Right? So I think um that that that really just brings us back to what this is, right? It's it's it's uh we're we're involved in a genre that doesn't do itself any favors, right?

Corie 1:37:42

You know, where you can be excused for bringing back the same song you did over and over again because it just but that's what I mean by our audience, because we go to see people, some of the people you brought before and we mentioned here, where if they come back with the same songs you brought them for then in the early 90s and they sing it now, the show sell out. Yeah, like as you see, Kirk Franklin, people singing Stomp All Night, like our old song, that's all 100 years old. But our soccer artists or Calypso, any genre we create here, it seems to be so is it the audience that's stifling? It's the the culture first, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:12

We've created that culture and we've inculcated it and we've we've we've just kept on, you know, uh unfortunately not doing anything to fight it. You know, it started back in the days when my mom and my aunt would be like that's devil music, right? It's it's you know, it's now Ash Wednesday. Right, you know, um it started when you know um radio stations would would switch strictly to Reggae dance hall and for 20 years we got that, you know. So so obviously when you're dealing with those sort of dynamics, you have not created a winning situation for any of us. Yeah, yeah, you know, and and that is that's a huge problem to deal with.

Corie 1:38:52

Um and you think the industry responded to that because sometimes I wonder if it's promoters. As a f as a Fed promoter, I suppose I had to make my party swing, right? So we use the France as an example. Every year I had to decide, you know. And when they hear songs early, is either they're not looking at the artists. I would have thought that as a business person, I would say, all right, I want these artists because that's who control anything. No, there's the biggest artist, that's who I want to book. Yeah. Whereas here they seem to look, listen, they want to hear the song. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:18

Yeah, because they the fact of the matter is they they control that part of the game, right? Like, so you this is still Trennal is still the platform that boosts you. You know, you you make it through this carnival successfully, you're gonna hit 80 places, right? You know, and and you become a millionaire, right? Seemingly overnight, but you've worked your ass off for it, right? Um, so I I think promoters understand you know that too well, that that it's like they have a certain level of power and and they utilize it in in that vein. Um but the sad part again for artists is that you every year you Bruno, Bruno, you have to come up with a hit every year or else.

Corie 1:40:00

That's a nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:01

Like, like no one no one tells that to Bruno Mars or any of those other guys, right? But but we have that on on our our backs. Yeah. Right? So yeah, promoters will call us all the time. I remember, you know, getting those calls for any artist that we had, what do they have next year? Or what do they have this year? Or like like sorry, like that's the kind of thing.

Corie 1:40:20

Like because I guess you all right, so when you hear engine room, you're feeling good about it. But the truth is those when you went and hit your road, you go, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:28

Until social media, radio, right? And and radio is is sort of like there's a a you know, it it doesn't have the strength as it did before. Some people would say it's dying. But I I think that naturally it it it it has to evolve, right? In order to face the challenges of what social media is today. Right? So um, yeah, if if you don't have it, yeah, unfortunately, you could be in a in a bit of a bind, right?

Corie 1:40:57

But you're from a talent management standpoint, you help with that? So, in other words, how you use get radio stations to play is relationships?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:05

Well, back in the day we had a very simple trick. We would hire people that would call, we would literally set up our office, telling you straight up what it is, and we would call the radio stations. Uh, I would put on three different, four different voices, spot till it beeps. Yay!

SPEAKER_01 1:41:21

What do you got going on there, my ugly pressures? Like, you know what I mean? Like, like literally, listen, man. Look, yeah, but we we would do those things because we wanted to make sure. But but we also believe in the songs as well. Like the movie. Yeah, yeah. But but man, we did all sorts of things, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:39

Like, like literally that that that is what you do for your artist. Look, the the things that y'all don't know, and the things that that I I wouldn't embarrass an artist about, but I will say that a manager's strength, right? Sometimes the artist doesn't understand because they're they're going through their emotions and the manager's in an office, right? You don't know what that manager is doing. But trust me, there are those managers that are receptionists at best, right? Oh, hey, how are you doing? Yeah, you want to book Disney, right? And then there are those managers that are really trying to figure out because they they're so burdened by it, right? Like, how do I make this thing work? And and and they're going out and trying to make things work. But there are also those managers, too, that are also putting out fires. Things that you don't know, from blackmail to what have you, right? Where I've dealt with those situations and I've been like, okay, we have a problem here, right? And this is a situation that that you know, grown men or women will cry right in, right? And it's like, yeah, this is happening, you know, this is a real thing. And then we have to figure out, okay, how do we do this? And sometimes it's solved through connections that you have on the ground. Sometimes it's because you know someone who can hack a server, right? And that put that's where connections come in, you know, and then you find out we found out who this person is, and you won't believe who their parents are, right? And like this is the person who has this information.

Corie 1:43:13

And yeah, like or blackmailing themselves or somebody could leak something that were really at school. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:17

Well, we've been through that before. Oh yeah, yeah. And and and I I won't go as far as save that person's career, but save them a heck of a lot of embarrassment.

Corie 1:43:25

Yeah, personally, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:27

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It would have been damaging. But but I'm not the only one who has done that for an artist. I'm pretty sure there are other managers who've faced those kind of fires, right? So we're out fires, but but quite honestly, this is another phase of my career. Um, and uh, I'm gonna leave other more capable, you know, ladies and gents to deal with that stuff. Um but but there are a couple artists that we're still working with. Uh there's there's a tremendous artist called John G. You know, um uh he's he's a musical artist that that does sort of like reggae folk world type and and easy to deal with, right? Easy to talk. Easy to deal with, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:16

Top behind the scenes thing, they can just talk and call everybody's name and then he yeah, yeah, that's I can't drink alcohol. If I only drank alcohol in this program, it'd be like yeah, it'd be like Cat Williams. That's what we mean. That's what we mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:32

Um no man, like so you know, uh DJ Quest, who who uh I think was first runner up in the Red World DJ competition. Right, you know, we we we do some work with him, and and and he's a great guy as well, very talented. Um, Michael Cherry. That's the that that's really I think when you talk about management and what make because I've heard people talk about what makes great managers, and and I'm not saying I'm a great manager, but I think what makes great managers is the ability to really uh jump on an opportunity. And where we jumped on an opportunity with Michael was we built a relationship with many casting directors. One of them said, Hey, we got a script and it said something about a Caribbean person in it, you know, and then we were able to galvanize forces through a community that we have called Otos, which stands for one degree of separation. And then that community, right, of about a thousand people, uh,

Soca Pressure And A Streaming Future

SPEAKER_00 1:45:30

but on WhatsApp it's several hundred, right? Um, we were able to work with Michael so that he he actually went and um uh rehearsed with other professional actors just to make sure he was ready for it. Then we went into a studio like this with Marcus Lee Fuch, um his production company. Uh Regina King comes online with um John Ridley, who did 12 Years a Slave. And and Michael, you know, I felt on that night he had nailed it and when we had done it, but we're like, we don't know if where this is gonna go. Right? But it was during a time when nothing was happening for anyone, no work, nothing. And then this pops up where we weren't working with any artist, right? And then Michael goes and he smashes it, and and boom, we we get the part in that that movie. And that was a two-year journey. Because you you you you go, you act in a movie, something sadly bad happened, right? It created delays, right? Reshoots, you know, Michael then you know uh gets invited to the premiere, right? We get invited along with him, you know, we meet more people, we're we're sitting down right next to you know, some of the most amazing creators in the business and executives, and then we build relationships and that created more work, you know. But again, you know, to get there, it all started from you know that day when I saw the bartender come out. Of course, yeah. It's a real interesting yeah.

Corie 1:47:09

And say hey, you know, and even in your in your mindset, it kind of leads me to just two questions before we close. The um the global nature of your thinking, right, and then the the the local and year-to-year nature of soccer music. What's your thoughts? Is it that we're in a space where we could really break through? Because I have this thing where our podcast could be wherever we want it to be, right? So music, are we in that space where we could do what Red Rat and them do consistently?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:40

Well, I mean, look, I I think I I've been asked this before. Is soaker music dead? Right? Like that that's that's the kind of thinking that that sometimes or the question that comes up. I think that that there's some aspects to that where I would say that, you know, um dead and evolving are sometimes very closely related, right? In the sense that there's there's there's stuff that we did 20 years ago with soccer music that I don't think we could do today. And that part of it is probably we have to kind of put in a casket. And then there's a part that is evolving through Trini Bad and what we're learning, like we've seen with the success with Young Brother, and right, where we we recognize that there's there's there's a part to this that we could take further. Um so what I will say is if we are not careful and we don't start, you know, finding ways of really and truly making things work for us in terms of streaming, right? The way we utilize those relationships with with with our collaborations and and working social media platforms, etc., we're gonna have a heck of a problem, right? Um, and so it is it's not no final nail in the coffin or anything like that. I won't be as as dramatic as that. But I do think that we're not in a healthy place. If we think that that this thing is running on a festival motor right now, right? You take away the festival, right? The pandemic demonstrates it. Right. And you had artists who didn't want to release music, and some of them would tell you flat out, if this is a hit, why am I releasing this in a time when I can't tour? It makes sense. I mean, when you think about it, it's like, yeah. But then the other part to that is, well, this is a problem. Because if you can only make money from going out and performing on a stage, then our music has not really elevated to the point where, as a genre, we're competitive. And don't try to tell me, well, you know, like I've had artists before, you know, like why is it that you can't get me in a room with Bruno Mars? You haven't sold a million albums, records, singles, whatever. Why why are we having this conversation? Well, if

Corie 1:50:03

If I'm on social media and I want one little song that halfway catching, they're taking a meeting with me neither. Why am I not in the room with that soaker artist if I know struggling as struggling artists?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:11

But but we're still also a very minuscule. And again, I'm choosing my words carefully because I know they're there's like I have a best friend. I can't say one bad thing about so you're coming to Miami and calling me a right like you know I mean he does a love with soca. But I'm not not here to in any way talk about it in a manner of like I I want I want so to thrive, but but it has to do that through understanding what the problems and challenges are and how we defeat them.

Corie 1:50:43

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:43

And it has to be defeated by putting on music all year round, making this thing 50% in terms of how you hear it on radio, for example, being more you know, exploring the opportunities that Trinibad and other areas have created that we can, you know, do things with Latin artists. Like there's so many different things.

Corie 1:51:03

Yeah, anyway. Well, I want to invite you back to talk about some of them things because I feel like there's a lot again, it's such a dark world sometimes. Like we see artists on stage, yeah, and as a fan, you think the artists show up, you drive yourself, they book your own gig. You really genuinely think that. Yeah, and you you feel like all the ups and downs that the artists go through have to do with the person, yeah. And it's refreshing to hear some of these things from behind the scenes. And and and I want to thank you as well for the global thinking. It encourages me when I read your bio,

Closing Thoughts And Next Conversation

Corie 1:51:30

I say Jesus Christ, you're not doing enough, you know, in terms of how we think about it or what we believe we can do.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:35

I like my mother who asked me, What are you doing?

Corie 1:51:38

Yeah, but that's what means. That's what they're supposed to do. But thanks very much, man. This was our pleasure. Absolutely pleasant. I want to invite you back to talk about how we're finishing and fixing some of them things, too. Of course, always want to find it too we'll do it on Patreon so you could call all the names in the room. Thanks very much. I appreciate it. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:54

Thanks again, man. Thanks to you and David, of course. My pleasure, David. Of course. He went to the team, so come on. All right, good. Thanks, man.