We've Explored Less Than 1% of Earth's Deep Ocean... And T&T Is About To Change That | Dr. Diva Amon

We know more about the surface of the Moon than we do the deep ocean.Dr. Diva Amon is a Trinidadian deep-sea biologist, National Geographic Explorer, co-founder of SpeSeas and Chief Scientist leading the historic Deep Wonders of Trinidad and Tobago and the High Seas expedition.For the first time, a Trinidad and Tobago-led team will spend a month exploring the nation's deep waters aboard Schmidt Ocean Institute's research vessel Falkor Too searching for species never before seen by science.In this conversation, we discuss:• Why 70% of Trinidad and Tobago is deep ocean
• Why less than 0.001% has ever been explored
• The strange creatures living kilometres beneath us
• New medicines hidden in the deep sea
• Swimming with sperm whales
• Taking Will Smith to the bottom of the ocean
• Why the deep ocean may be Earth's final frontier

This is one of the most fascinating conversations we've ever had.

Join the WhatsApp Channel to follow the expedition: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029Vb7WmCK4o7qPcYbUuY0O

Transcript

Welcome And Deep-Sea Teaser

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Only point zero zero one percent of Trinan Tobago's deep sea has ever been seen. We think about the scarlet ibis, leatherback turtle, all these iconic animals, right, from Trinan Tobago. But we don't ever think really about the like many marine species as well.

SPEAKER_05 0:22

They're all the animal fish, right? And there's so much more.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

Really, we're trying to collect information about what species live where and why they live there, and potentially then how we are impacting them. Will Smith and I, we went down into the deep sea together. That's not a metaphor. When I didn't ring biology, I remember friends being like, What are you gonna do with us? You're gonna be broke your whole life.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

No, we are not going down the island. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

You are no live and Cory Stephen Cory Step on Cory Step and Cory Stephen Podcast. Mommy, look at this one. It's gonna be sexy.

Corie 1:09

Welcome to the Cory Shepherd Podcast. My name is Cory Shepard. Thanks for everybody who's been tuning in. Today we are way out of our depth. You're gonna hit every pun that you could possibly have. Think of all, right? Today we have with us Dr. Diva Amon, deep sea biologist, founder of Species NGO, which is a marine biology NGO in Trinidad and Tobago. And we're here to talk about, let me see if I could get this right now, the deep wonders of Trinidad and Tobago on the high seas. How we do?

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Have you been doing this for a long time? Because that was perfect. Was it? Yes.

Corie 1:43

It's our tenth take. The 10th time we went through that. She va in good. Welcome to the show, Diva.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Thank you so much for having me, Corey. I'm so excited. Uh, you've had such an incredible array of guests, and I'm just so happy to be one little one that can join us.

Corie 1:55

I'm glad we had to it. I'm glad we had to it. So I was telling you when we spoke before, the sea for me, right? The ocean for me, my whole experience is in Macrip. So we're gonna relate everything back to Macreep here today. The expedition is in Macrip by chance.

The Trinidad And Tobago Expedition

SPEAKER_04 2:11

No, Macrip, Macrib scares me. Doesn't it? It's like it's real dark and like no chance, nothing scares you.

Corie 2:17

Nothing scares you. So let's talk about the expedition first now. What is what is this about?

SPEAKER_04 2:22

We have a world-class research vessel in Trinan Tobago. It's gonna be heading out to explore and study Trinan Tobago's deep waters. Right. So I mean everything that is out of our reach, beyond the reach of recreational scuba diving.

Corie 2:40

Okay, so it's not Macrib deep, isn't it? This is not Macrib Deep exactly. So Macrib have a big sink in it, so that's what it is.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

I actually heard that recently. Someone was telling me that. Yes. No, no, I'm talking about like from 50 meters depth all the way down to 4,000 meters depth, four kilometers, right? And so not a lot of people realize that Trinan Tobago is actually 70% deep ocean by area. I see. Yeah, so it's majority of our country, exactly, right? Majority of our country, and yet we know next to nothing about it.

SPEAKER_06 3:09

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

And so this vessel is coming. We have a team of primarily Trinan Tobago scientists. It's led by Trinan Tobago scientists. That is a first, which is incredible. Right. And we also have international scientists joining us. We're gonna go out to sea for a month and we're gonna be exploring and studying the places we have been to, we're going, sorry, no one has ever been to before. Ever. So we have no idea what we're gonna find.

Corie 3:32

Do you excited about this? This song is exciting. So exciting.

SPEAKER_04 3:34

Can you hear the excitement? So new species, new ecosystems, things, you know, treat really transforming the way we understand our country. Right. I think. And the best part is that we're gonna be live streaming it all. As soon as our equipment hits the water, it's gonna be live streamed on YouTube and Twitch. And anyone, once you have an internet connection, can follow along, see the discoveries happening in real time. Exactly. You could be sitting down, not to sell out your business, you could be sitting down wherever your home is, sitting on your living room, 6 p.m. on a Friday night, and you're hopefully you'd have better things to do. But 6 p.m. on a Friday night, Wednesday night. Let's see Wednesday night. And you could be watching four kilometers down in Tranan Tobago's waters live. I understand. Live. Yeah.

Corie 4:22

Sounds very, very scary.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Why is that scary, Corey?

Corie 4:26

Because it's deep. You prefer deep water, not deep.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

I don't know if you're no, that's true, and I understand that. There's a lot of trauma, I think, with the ocean. But on this, while I have been into the deep sea myself in submersibles, this expedition we won't be doing that. Okay. We have this car-sized robot called Sebastian.

SPEAKER_06 4:46

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

And he or she is gonna be going down into the deep sea for us. He will be our ears, our eyes, our hands on the deep sea floor, and we can control him from the ship. So we'll be nice and dry and comfy, and he'll be doing all the hard work.

Corie 5:00

Exactly. That's what I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

The only thing is, we're at sea for a month. So the whole month you're not seeing land.

Corie 5:07

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

And you can't come back. No matter what happens, you can't come back.

Corie 5:11

Really?

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Yeah.

Corie 5:12

Usually when people say that they're working offshore is oil and gas. You know, when you do oil and gas, people say they're gone for a month at a time.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

And that's because this is, and you're right, right? But this that's because these expeditions don't happen often. In the history of Trinan Tobago, there have only been a handful of these, and all of them have been foreign-led. Right.

Corie 5:29

So this one is led by us.

SPEAKER_04 5:30

And this is led by us. And so it's a very a huge shift in how we are doing our science, who is doing our science, the questions we are asking. And it's really about, I think, sovereignty, right? And understanding things better. But this is a not, I am gonna say it, but it's a once-in-a-generation opportunity for science, hey, in Trinidad and Tobago.

Corie 5:56

Yeah. Well, with my ignorance, I'd ask you the basic questions, right? What will you be looking for? What will we be looking for? Is it one of them things you just know where you're we discover what you discover? Oh, you'll have a plan, you have an objective as to where you're going for it.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

That's a great question. So, what we're trying to do is we're trying to get as systematic an understanding of the whole all of Trinidad and Tobago's waters, what we call our exclusive economic zone. And that means that we've chosen different spots to explore based on the depths, because we think that will change what lives there, right? So what have ecosystems were found. And also depending on where different currents are. So we're sampling in a few different ones. So we're hoping we can see the full spectrum of deep sea life in Ternantobago's waters. There was a study that came out just a few weeks ago from one of my students and from Yui. And she um she found that so far there have been 450 species recorded from our deep sea in Ternan Tobago. Which sounds like a lot, right? No. Really? So, but then because she did modeling and she expects that there are more than 1600 species. So more than 70% of deep sea life in Trananta. We just don't know. Hey. So it means the opportunity for discovery is massive. Species we have never seen as Chinese, species no one in the world has ever seen. And really, we're trying to collect information about what species live where and why they live there, and potentially then how we are impacting them so that we can think about how we can steward them better in the future.

Corie 7:36

You see, my mind a little warped, you know, because I studied what I'm gonna do for weeks.

Meet Sebastian The Deep Robot

Corie 7:40

I studied what I studied what kind of thing these species can do. We like wild meat, you know. I study anything to eat when you go on there.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

Okay, so let me tell you. So we have a species, we have a species of mussel that we know lives in Trinantabago's waters from a study that was there in 2014 and then one in the 1980s. These mussels are this big.

SPEAKER_06 7:56

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

So think about the mussels you eat. They're like this big, right? If you do that. But these are this big, except, so which sounds good, all right, except that they use sulfide as their food. So they like pong of rotten eggs. I mean, it's not eaten, not feeding.

Corie 8:15

And then for the email cocktails.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

But I mean, you say food, right? But like actually the deep sea and life there supports fisheries that many of us rely on. Hey, in Sharon and Tobago. There's the potential in the future, if we get a better understanding of what lives there, of new medicine coming from the deep sea. That's a that is a frontier of med of research right now, is because the deep sea, life is really flipping weird down there.

Corie 8:39

Yeah, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Or yeah, we'll get on to that, right? But like really weird. They've evolved under very extreme conditions, no, no sunlight, very little food, crushing pressures, and near freezing temperatures. And so that means that they're accustomed to operating at in a way that we are not. And so those properties mean that they're perfect for medicine, they're perfect for biotechnology. And so this is the next frontier of exploitation is a strong word, but potentially sustainable exploitation. Yeah, so like getting these types of things from our ocean in the future, and by being us being able, the first step is us being able to go and look to see what's there.

SPEAKER_06 9:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:23

So that then we can think about how we're using it. But we're already using our deep sea, right? It's we have oil and gas exploitation happening right now, and that's with very little safeguards. We don't know what lives there, and so we don't know how to safeguard it.

Corie 9:37

Oh, yeah, suppose once you find oil and gas, that takes precedent.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Exactly, right?

Corie 9:40

It's like every other industry we talk about here, you know, the oil and gas thing in Trinidad and Tobago.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

And I and we understand that, right? It's powered our economy for so so long. But you can have balance, you can have, you can have exploitation, but you can also have protection in other places.

SPEAKER_06 9:55

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

And actually, here in Trinidad and Tobago, we don't have us, we well, we have one marine protected area, Baku.

Corie 10:01

Okay, okay, in Tobago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:03

That's it. Really? It is a relatively small, shallow coral reef, very special, of course, but that's it. We don't have any others. And we as a country have committed to 30% of our land and ocean being protected by 2030. We're not even at 1%, right?

Corie 10:22

So we're the coral in space, sorry, the big green coral. That's not a correct.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

No, isn't that crazy? It is where that is, it's a UNESCO man in the biosphere reserve, but that doesn't confer protection status. I understand. So all of these amazing parts of our country, things that many of us like treasure and also that help to support the life that we lead, right? They're they're not protected. Yeah. And it's I think it's a it would be a very easy win for whichever government were to put that into place.

Corie 10:58

It makes sense too. And you say not protected, but probably not known, because if you're you're talking about 1% being explored, so what what causes it to be beside all like expensive equipment? I see everything there looks like hundreds of millions of dollars a little. But what what why was it that we only explore in it now when we have so few and far far in between?

SPEAKER_04 11:16

That's such a great question, and you've already hit the nail on the head, right? This isn't working in the deep ocean is not cheap. That vessel, which is owned by a philanthropy, a US philanthropy called Schmidt Ocean Institute. Um, it was founded by one of the founders of Google.

SPEAKER_07 11:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

Um, they and his wife, they um they started this because they know the deep sea science, deep sea exploration, is incredibly expensive. What this ship that's hit costs about 70,000, 80,000 US a day to run. I see. Right? That so, in total, we're looking at this expedition being two to three million US.

SPEAKER_06 11:54

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

So that's not something that like countries like ours can afford every day, right? So it means that actually this isn't just a Trinan problem, this is a global problem. Most of the uh less economically developed countries in the world just can't access the deep sea, despite the fact that for many of them, deep sea, as we've talked about, is the largest ecosystem. Bobby, this is 99% deep sea.

SPEAKER_07 12:18

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

Okay. So it means that for the majority of the area, they have no idea what lives there. They have, they don't understand how it works, and therefore they can't manage it effectively, like understand if we're impacting it, and then come up with solutions to fix those impacts.

Corie 12:34

Yeah, I guess for the layman, I'm not even thinking of the marine part of our country as the country. Our country stops on the shore for me, you know. You don't think of it at all.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

Totally, and that's like it's crazy because there's so much opportunity there. The ocean can potentially provide, you know, solutions to some of the greatest challenges that we can be facing, whether it's antibiotic resistance or an energy source or food, um, food sustainability. All of these things come from the ocean and yet we just don't really think about it. And I think also, you know, we think about scarlet ibis, leatherback turtle, all these iconic animals, right, from Trinan Tbago. But we don't ever think really about the like many marine species as well.

Corie 13:22

Yeah, like kingfish. Again, listen, they mean mark kids.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

They're all the animal fish, right? And there's so much more.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

There's so much more.

Corie 13:30

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

And we never really think about them as being, you know, prized parts, like iconic species. When we think about iconic species, we think about I don't know, what do you think about pandas?

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Yeah, I guess, I guess, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

Grizzly bears, I don't know, right? But here we have these iconic species, and there's so much

What We Might Discover Down There

SPEAKER_04 13:50

more in the deep sea that we is there waiting for us to discover that I think would be so incredible to like enter into the cultural zeitgeist.

Corie 13:58

Who paying for this? Where do money come from?

SPEAKER_04 14:01

I'm really glad you asked that because on social media we have a great social media campaign happening right now, and a lot of the comments have been like very political. Howdy government have money for this, think, think, think, this party, this party, whatever.

SPEAKER_06 14:13

Yeah, it comes.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

And actually, it's that's not none of those are correct.

SPEAKER_06 14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

The vessel is owned and operated by Schmidt Ocean Institute. It's a US philanthropic organization, and they have created this vessel so that anybody can use it in the world once you go through this process for free.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

So they're really like broadening access. On top of that, we have other philanthropic donors who are helping to fund the science. Pure Ocean, the Explorers Club, National Geographic Society. Um, and so I also last year got, last year, the year before, got the Anthony and Sabger Caribbean Excellence in Science Award. Some of that is going towards this. So there's it's all philanthropy. None of this is government funded. We're very happy to be supported in other ways by the government, the fact that they're helping to facilitate our permits, etc. But this is all private, philanthropic money.

Corie 15:09

Makes sense. Makes sense. So I could see where where the um where it gets difficult to do often, because I suppose this bidding for resources all over the world, because now we have a few ships, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04 15:19

Exactly.

Corie 15:20

A few people like yourself. Thank God one of us is training. You know what I mean? I like that part. But I suppose the bids happen all over the world for these kind of expeditions.

SPEAKER_04 15:26

So there are a handful of these ships around the world, and this has been a three-year process to get this vessel to come here. We had to put it in application, go through rigorous vetting. It was a very competitive. And and then once it was uh once we were given the opportunity to have the vessel come here, you know, so much planning has gone into this. This isn't like a the ship reach you, jump on the ship, you're gone.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

No, we are not going down the islands, Corey.

Corie 15:54

I thought you just catch a ship the morning.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

No, so you're we're going way, we're going like hundreds

Deep Sea Value And Hard Choices

SPEAKER_04 16:00

of okay.

Corie 16:00

So how far are you from land? Let's study it.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

So we're we're working in lots of different places. Right. Off the east coast and north coast of Chinese Bay. Okay. But like way off, right? And so the closest will be is in that place where the giant brain carl is, the man in the biosphere reserve. We are gonna try to get some data from there, the deeper places that have never been seen.

SPEAKER_06 16:22

Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

But then we're working ways, like hundreds of kilometers offshore, right? So so you can't just go out there for a jolly, right? Like the team has had to go through sea survival training from several days of sea survival training. They've had to get a lot of insurance in case something goes wrong. They've had to have various scientific training, like this has been a whole process. But what is wonderful is that the majority of people who are gonna be on the ship, scientists who've been on the ship, have never been to sea before.

SPEAKER_06 16:53

Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 16:54

They've they've never been to sea before, right? And so this is this is an incredible experience for them and could really, I think, change their lives.

Corie 17:02

Yeah, I would imagine. I would imagine like you're talking about marine scientists and they're never so they'd be close to shore.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

Because that's like on little boats, or like they've never been sleeping out at sea, like weeks out at sea, right? Because that's a very rare thing because they're just a few ships.

Corie 17:18

Oh, of course.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

Um, but I mean, I'm sure we're gonna have plenty of people who get seasick. I, for one, get horrendous seasick. No chance. I am on drugs. From what I see on YouTube, whole time, right? I'll drug to the nines. I have a dance cyan score. Okay.

Corie 17:37

Just to make sure.

SPEAKER_04 17:38

So, no, because you can't you can't be like puking up the place when you're trying to like run the expedition, right? So, um, so I'm sure we will have some people who do get seasick, but I mean it literally is like you have a whole town almost at sea. It's a ship with close to a hundred people on it. Right. You have captains, you have cooks, you have cleaners, you have everything, right? And then it's very close quarters. We have recreational rooms where hopefully we're gonna be streaming the World Cup matches. Oh, you can go again, all right. Um, and then uh there's places to go and work, there's labs, there's cabins which you have to share with at least one person. Yes. So I mean, nice. Uh depends who you end up rooming with, but sure.

Corie 18:26

And I'll just remember the him for saying he's going offshore. And when you say ship, I hear boat, right? I hear like down the islands.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Rowboat. You didn't even go down the islands boat. You went to the boat.

Corie 18:35

No, no, no, yeah, rowboat, fishing boat, you know. So I I was amazed one time. He took money thing, and it's like a little city, like so many people. It's so good. That's so cool. I just went on, they were docked for a while for whatever reason. So we got to just walk through the boat. It was it's it's a new world for sure.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

For sure, right? It's like you have to be self-sufficient. They like just silly things like the pan, triani ship, the storage, food storage is amazing. Exactly, right? You have to have you have to have your food last for like a month. And it's they can do incredible things, like, but it is funny when you're at sea, you see like things disappear quickly. So, like lettuce is one of the first to go, right? Then bananas, spoiler, then like no, this well spoiled, yeah. So, like, so let's so you know you're on like week one, lettuce goes, week two bananas go, week three, maybe eggs. I know whatever else, right? But like, yeah, it's you really are out there. Yeah, that's you can't just come back and go to the grocery, yeah.

Corie 19:33

Should be able to. So I suppose similar. A month is a long time.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

A month is a long time, but we don't have supply boats. So every so everything we are parking on eboats on Saturday and Sunday, this we'll go in with.

Corie 19:47

So it's 29th of June to 28th of July?

SPEAKER_04 19:49

Correct. And so we're gonna be streaming. Once that robot, remotely operated vehicle hits the water, we're gonna be streaming live.

Corie 19:56

What's his name again?

SPEAKER_04 19:57

Sebastian.

Corie 19:58

Sebastian. So he could collect sample. That will do everything that you need to do. Everything. But does it go down and come back up to surface for it? I see. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 20:05

So we put it, put it off the boat when we're ready, goes and goes on journeys, wherever. It's connected to the boat, goes and does its whatever you want it to do, collects samples, and it can, it's so incredible. It can either like break rocks, okay, it can or it can collect the like most fragile coral that's like made of like bone china. Absolutely. Right. And so it has this dexterity that's amazing. And it puts all of the samples onto the front. It has baskets. Oh, gotcha. So it puts all of them onto the on there. It can take temperature, it can take oxygen pressure, etc. And then it brings it all back to us and we are able to work on them.

Corie 20:42

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. So I suppose it what what does it end with? Is it a report? Do you tell us how do we know what happened?

SPEAKER_04 20:48

So we're after this month at sea, we're gonna be streaming live. So it's not like a lot of science, you have to wait years and years and years for it to come out. This you're seeing a lot of the discoveries happening in real time.

SPEAKER_06 20:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

But once we come back, so for instance, if they're a new species, we can't actually confirm it's a new species unless we have it in hand.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

I see.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

So when we come back, we're gonna take all the samples we've collected, all the different animals, and then look at them. We're sh we're pretty sure the majority are gonna be new species, which is incredible, right? And and then we'll do different types of analyses. Those some will take months, some will take years, and then ultimately there'll be different scientific reports and publications done. But we're making a really good effort to make sure that is communicated broadly.

Corie 21:34

Because ultimately, the layman version of the case.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

Exactly, right? This is what's the point of doing science for science's sake. We should be doing science to communicate with as many people as possible, to inform stewardship, etc. etc. Makes sense. And so that is our aspiration, and that's what we're hoping. Culture. Not hoping, we're aiming to happen after this.

Corie 21:53

Okay, I want to talk to you about what is happening when you come off the boat, right? But again, curiosity like so how you know you're gonna be new species or. Can tell that already.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

So we can tell that because only 0.001% of Trinan Tobago's deep sea has ever been seen and explored. Exactly. So because so little has been explored, there's a we can make an educated guess that we're gonna be finding plenty new things. Which is incredible. Uh it always blows my mind that in this day and age, we're still finding species that no one has seen before.

Corie 22:28

Well, I guess I heard you say in an interview that we like globally, it's still at 1% kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Yeah, it's less, so less than 1% of the deep sea globally has ever been seen. Think about that. Like, this is the ocean of our own planet we're talking about. We have no idea what lives there, no one has ever seen it. We don't understand how it works, we don't understand how we're impacting it. And this is our own planet, right?

Corie 22:50

You see, when you say these things, I just feel like, we're right, well, you shouldn't go there.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

So that I mean, I'm so glad you said that, right? Because there is this, like, this uh what's the word I'm looking for? Often exploration leads to exploitation, right? That's like a thing that we do as humans, unfortunately. And I there is the chance that that happens here, but we have to hope that by doing the science we can then say, hey, this species is really fragile, or this one we can potentially think about using, or hey, we should protect this very special place.

SPEAKER_06 23:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

Um, and so on, because yeah, we don't have a good track record as a species.

Corie 23:28

Yeah, as humans, you mean. So let's talk about you know, your your preferences for people like Sebastian or robots

OceanGate Safety And Certification

Corie 23:36

like that was a good one. Any submersible. Because the only thing I know about submersible is the Titanic people, you know. I was from the time I talked to you, I said, frightened for Diva. I'm so glad to hear it's a remote vessel.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

So let's talk about Ocean Gate quest, the Titanic one.

Corie 23:49

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

I was actually at Sea of Costa Rica on the same vessel when that happened. Oh, really? Yeah, and we were transfixed, right? As was the world.

Corie 23:58

This is Yeah, especially YOL. Right?

SPEAKER_04 24:00

YOLA, like this is people who are paying huge amounts of money to go down into the deep sea to explore, to go to see this incredible wreck. Yeah. And then they disappear. He came up possibly right. And then like Titanic took I didn't mean to laugh. Titanic took more victims, right? Like 100%. Like it's Titanic is a victim itself, but it's still taking people. But ultimately, that the owner of Ocean Gate and Ocean Gate as a company, they, as we've seen in numerous documentaries, numerous documents that have come out, they were not, they did not go through the safety steps. Okay. They were really, there's a certification process to make sure you're submersible, the little smaller than a submarine, that you go in to make sure that is safe to go in. And they, time and time again, did not go through that process. It was not certified. I see. And they used materials that you don't usually use materials. They were essentially a rogue actor. That then, despite numerous people saying, hey, what you're doing is dangerous. This is because of the way you're doing it, you really need to stop. They just ignored all of that, and then this is where we ended up. Apart from that, everyone else gets their submersible certified. And actually, it's one of the safest industries globally. They have only been two other deaths globally from scientific submersibles.

Corie 25:26

I understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

So it's very, very safe, right? We're diving in these things all the time.

Corie 25:31

So you feel safe when you're going into the sea, but was it fair factor?

SPEAKER_04 25:35

It's interesting you ask that. So I've dived a lot in submersibles. The deepest I've gone is two and a half kilometers.

Corie 25:42

Okay, so how long will you go down before it gets pitch black?

Darkness Pressure And Sea Fireworks

Corie 25:46

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

That's another good question. Good question.

Corie 25:50

Everything I see you is in the dark. First time I see me in real. It's pitch black download.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

Right. So once, okay, so I've been to two and a half kilometers depth, but once you, which is 2500 meters, once you go past about 400 meters, which is well below scuba, scuba is like 40 meters.

SPEAKER_06 26:08

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

Once you get to 400, there is no sunlight. None. To get from zero to 400, you see the light disappearing. Oh. And not only does the light disappear, but different colours of light. Because you know, light is like lots of different colours and make it up, right? Like the rainbow makes up white light. And so as you're going deeper, colours disappear. So red is the first colour to go. And so you could be wearing a red shirt in a submersible, and within like 100, like within like 50 meters, it will be black or brown. It's like the cr like it messes with you. Yeah, right. Like you could do, I remember once I did rainbow nails. Right. Rainbow. Because you know, you have to have fun with these things, right? Rainbow manicure. And it was like and you want and it and it's totally different manicure you have by like 50 meters, right? So it's a it's a crazy experience. You lose light, but then Corey, once you get into the darkness, sure, there is a l- there is some fear because ultimately you are going to a place that no one has been before. You are going to a place that if something goes wrong, no one is coming to help you. Right?

Corie 27:24

So don't have one of these buttons like any MRI machine, you can tell them because as red disappear. So wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So if you're down there and something happened, who is your tethered or something out?

SPEAKER_04 27:38

So if you're down there and let's say you get trapped, right? Like you get caught on a fishing line, maybe you have a depending on how much air you have, you have a few days where people can come to rescue you. Okay, right? But more often than not, that is not what happens, like what we saw with Ocean Gauge. Gotcha, gotcha. They didn't even know what like they didn't even know they were going. Yeah, of course. Like it was milliseconds, right? And you're crushed. You don't know. So that's more likely than not what's gonna happen. But again, it's a very safe industry. So so you are feeling a little bit of fear because this is this is still quite rare, right? This is you're going somewhere no one has been before. And sure, there is a little bit of unknown.

Corie 28:23

And you're by yourself or is it people with you? Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

Thank God.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

My God, I wouldn't trust myself to drive. I would not trust myself to drive on a nose. Or you have somebody you have a pilot, a drive, one of the drivers.

SPEAKER_04 28:35

Um, and depending on the submersible, you can also have another guest. So, for instance, once Will Smith and I, we went down into the deep sea together. That's not a metaphor, but we did go down into the deep sea with a submersible pilot. And he had on a red shirt and went through that whole thing. And you could see, bless him, the the fear, right? It's all in Disney Plus Nadio's Welcome to Earth series, which is streaming now. But you watch his face and you can tell he's been very open that he's not comfortable in the ocean, understandably. And you can see he's extremely fearful. And the whole time we're going down, we went a kilometer depth together, so pitch black, right? And he was like silent, in silent, and because it's dark, also, I was like, is this man asleep? Like, what it like just two of us on a pilot, and like it was just like silence, and I'm like, Do I ask if he's okay? Is he taking a nap? Like, I don't know, right? But no, he was just almost paralyzed with fear, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and again, it is understandable, but fair aside, it's a once-in-a-lifetime experience. It's like going to another planet. You feel so much excitement that you are part of this very privileged minority who gets to see places that no one has seen before. And you never know what you're gonna see, right? Like, not only is it likely no one's been there before, but the ocean is always changing. And so it could be like a massive six-skilled shark or a mantery or a several thousand-year-old coral.

SPEAKER_07 30:22

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

Right? Like, you just don't ever know what you're gonna see on this journey, and it's an incredible thing to witness. And then on top of that, when you're on your way down or on your way back up, when you're going through the darkness, there's like the most crazy firework display you have ever seen of your entire life. Have you heard about this?

Corie 30:41

I saw I saw one video you all did today to just switch off the lights of the Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

So you you can flash the lights, or in the darkness, if you turn off the lights, you see all the. But essentially, because the deep sea is dark, animals ha have evolved to create their own light. Like an anglerfish, right? You know, the anglofish have like little lur on the front. Exactly, exactly, right? He has this little lur that he lures his food in with. And but there's so many more dark stories about anglofish we could talk about. But so but except it's not just anglofish. We think like 70% of species in the deep sea create their own light. And so when you're going down, these things are just like firing off, like blue squirts, green squirts, they're lighting up in all these rhythmic displays. And it is like it's like you're on drugs. Yeah, like it's like you're watching, like exactly, like you're on the craziest psychedelics, and you're just watching this incredible like world in front of you.

Corie 31:43

Listen, you're the more you talk, the more frightening game.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

I am not doing a good job then.

Corie 31:49

I'm not doing a good job then, and one kilometer is a light work for you.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Filled with awe and wonder.

Corie 31:56

I am, I am, I am. I'll be on the live stream. I'll take it in. Let me let me let me start there, you know. But that is that I mean, it takes a lot to get to that point, I suppose. And as you say with the training, because everything I see about the ocean, for instance, is the pressure and the depth. You have to go through training to deal with that too.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

No, so but these submersibles, it's like sitting in a car.

Corie 32:14

Oh, I see. You don't feel yeah, you don't feel anything. So you could come up at whatever speed and all that, too. It's not a scuba.

SPEAKER_04 32:18

Yeah.

Corie 32:19

I saw something you all showed where you all put a styrofoam cup. That's a reason is a reasonable.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

I actually brought one for you to do, yeah. So, so because when you go in the deep sea, right, there's meters and meters of water above you. And that, of course, has weight, has mass, right? So it's heavy. And so what happens is we to demonstrate that, we take styrofoam cups. Sure, we know styrofoam, not environmentally friendly, but they are necessary for this purpose. Sure. And we have people decorate them like yourself. And then we attach them to our robot. They go down into the deep sea. As they go down, the pressure squeezes them, squeezes all of the air out of it, and it comes back like shot glass size.

Corie 33:06

So you see that and you still went.

SPEAKER_04 33:09

So, so I mean, yes, right? Because, but tell me, okay, so if I came to you tomorrow and I was like, Corey, we have a submersible coming. Let's go. We go into a kilometer deep, let's go.

SPEAKER_05 33:23

Would you say no?

Corie 33:24

No, I will do it.

SPEAKER_05 33:26

You would do it.

Corie 33:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have one experience, right? Nothing like that. But we uh we went to um, I want to say it was Cancun at the time.

SPEAKER_07 33:32

Okay, yes.

Corie 33:33

And they had a um, you know, they do these underwater things. So I remember being hesitant about it because they're telling you all this other thing at the help. The thing is very heavy, so you had to start going down. The helmet, right? Yeah, and you could walk the seabed.

SPEAKER_04 33:47

Which I've never done.

Corie 33:48

Yeah. No, but you've done much more, right? But so you walk the seabed, and um, there's a guy giving you a tour. You know what stood out to me a lot about it? There's a piece that came because when they put the thing on you, right? This is what he's telling you. Well, don't lean forward because then water rise, like, all right.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

You're like, I definitely don't lean in forward. Don't worry about that answer.

Corie 34:06

My wife and my son pull out immediately. I read by myself because whatever it was, they had nobody in the line when we went and went to them, see them. It's like, nah. It's like I go in. We're here, you know what I mean? What better place to go than Cancun? You know what I mean? If we all feel so you had had forticula. You know what I mean? At least, at least I had a good time. Cancun was nice, but they had to walk in the seabed and they'd take it through, like you had the little stingray thing, and they had photos underneath. So there's a guy who um there's a scuba diver with you. Okay, he's he's taking it on the tour, and I think it's man-made because there's like a railing down there you could hold and walk, and there's some statues. Yeah, he did photos the whole time, but there's just basically two signals you could give him. It's either like you're good, or yeah, maybe it was that or okay or up. Yeah, so you know, I've ready, yeah. But it was nice. There was a there was a quite kind of serenity that came because um I think for me, there's a peace in knowing your cat, where you go do you're going home. If something goes wrong there, you out.

SPEAKER_04 35:03

Totally.

Corie 35:03

So um, so for that reason, probably if you say that yes, I do love the ocean. I I I like being I feel most comfortable there. But uh, so if you say we go in, we go in. I mean you bring back Will Smith in one piece. I I trust him.

SPEAKER_04 35:18

Right? No, but it's I mean, I'm glad to hear you say that because I think there are a lot of people who like if I also said, Would you want to go to space, would you?

Corie 35:26

Yeah, I mean, I also hear a good life, you know. I mean, I do in it. I uh just for to be able to because there's something uh intriguing about somewhere nobody's gone before. I agree with you on that. Totally a little bit, right? I'm not as excited as you. Totally, but there's something about that. So I think I will go. Is that the experience you have with most people? People will people will go.

SPEAKER_04 35:47

I think most people definitely. They are sure a minority who are like nano me in that.

Corie 35:51

Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:51

But most people, they as you say, they want this. I think it's human nature, right? To explore. That's why, like for hundreds of years, thousands of years, humans have been going all over the planet, places that no one has ever been before, and finding, you know, climbing mountains and going to the deepest point in the ocean and whatever, right? Just because you want to.

Corie 36:11

Yeah, I guess. There's this.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

Because there's like that conquering. There's something there.

Corie 36:15

So we have another hour to figure out how you get into this, figuring out as because something about you caused you to go there. Because I was I was reading something too about this the Mariana Trench, you'll call it where's yes, there's the deepest point on earth. You went.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

So I have a so the Mariana Trench is where the deepest point is, right? 11 kilometers deep. I didn't.

Corie 36:33

That's like going south. That's like going to be a shogunus. And no water.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

It's a really good analogy, actually.

Corie 36:41

Check and see how far from here 11 kilometers is from. I don't like it. I don't like it. I drive 11 kilometers to come here in a car.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

It's like we have we have a social media post coming out, and it's like, it's like Trinan Tobago is four kilometers deep. That's like going around the savannah twice.

SPEAKER_06 36:58

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_04 36:59

That's like, that's like if you lined up 4,000 double vendors next to each other, right? That's like it's like 17 to win.

Corie 37:09

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_04 37:10

So it's it's far. Right. So um, yes. But what was your question?

Corie 37:17

Mariana Trench. Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

So I have so I have been to the Mariana Trench. We've worked up to six kilometers deep with robots.

Corie 37:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

But I've never actually been to the deepest point on the planet. Only, I think, like, I think by now it's like 30 people in the whole world through history have been to that point. So is it one of these things in your profession, like Everest, where your Kong, so much people wins and everybody wants to go and it's a- I mean, I would say not necessarily in marine science, but I just think in like the exploring community, which is very alive, right? A lot of very wealthy people are in this exploring community.

SPEAKER_06 37:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:49

And they just want to go to the bottom of the Marianas to say they have, right? They want to do, they want to climb the tallest mountain, they want to go to the deepest point. Yes, I know. And then they want to hit space.

Corie 37:59

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

You know, knock off the trifecta or whatever it is, right?

Corie 38:03

Well, you would go to space, I should ask you this, would you?

SPEAKER_04 38:05

It's interesting. My sister is actually an astrophysicist. Oh yeah. So she studies space and I study. She studies outer space, I study inner space, is what we call the DC. But you know, I would because just for exactly what you said, you get the opportunity. You would take it.

SPEAKER_06 38:22

You cannot do that.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

Would I be afraid? Absolutely. Um, and yeah. I would. I would definitely want to go to Mars. I want to come back. I'm not, I'm not tired. I'm not tired, I'm not tired of living yet. I have things to do. I have, you know, people to see, things to do.

Corie 38:42

Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. So we get some of your origins now. Where you come from that you're your you and your sister. What was happening in all your households?

SPEAKER_04 38:49

My parents, I don't know what went on there.

Diva’s Origin Story And Career Path

SPEAKER_04 38:51

What did uh my mom flew for Bi Wee for like 30 years, and my dad built sailboats.

Corie 38:58

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

So I guess that's where some of the ocean came from.

Corie 39:00

But like Biwi Auto Space Medium.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

I mean, sure, sure. I mean, many people would probably say that about Bi Wee.

Corie 39:07

Where y'all grew up with?

SPEAKER_04 39:09

I grew up in Marvel. Okay. Um, and yeah, I mean, for me it was just that because my dad built sailboats, I spent a lot of time by the sea, you know, before chagramas, definitely. But also, like, I mean, this was I grew up in the before cable time, right? To age myself. And so on the weekend, like, what were you doing? You went to the beach, you went maracas, right? And so that was my childhood. Right. On the beach, in the ocean, whatever. And I specifically remember Corey like standing at the water's edge or being on like a sailboat down the islands or whatever, and just wishing I knew what was swimming down there. Yeah, I'd like to look down, and of course, our water hair is not like Barbados water, right? But you like look down, not quite, and so you look down, and it's like murky, and I'm like, oh, I wonder about all the amazing things down there. And fast forward now, 30 years, and I have tools that allow me to see these things, and we're finding things that no one has ever found before. And I feel very lucky to be able to do what I do.

Corie 40:14

Yeah, that's unique because I just look forward another two to come out. Yeah. When you see, I'll see. We're in here, let me come out and it's a bacon chugger. Oh, let me see your bacon chagger to what's your insane. So you think that as early as that is where love for the ocean came?

SPEAKER_04 40:28

Yeah, definitely a lot of my earliest memories revolve around the ocean. Like I remember, I think we went Barbados for the weekend. I must have been like three.

SPEAKER_06 40:36

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

And I remember, I don't know what the circumstances were, but there was a dead manter on the beach, like a big, big mantor. And I just rem like I again to remember that as a child, right? Like you're like three years old, being like, wow, what is this weird ass animal? And why is it dead? Like and feeling very sad about that. So I think a lot, a lot of these, this is my childhood hey, really shaped that love for the ocean and also the curiosity of wanting to answer questions that no one has ever answered before.

Corie 41:08

Went to school?

SPEAKER_04 41:08

I'm in Convent, Port of Spain. Oh, it's Convent.

Corie 41:13

Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 41:14

Wait, do you want your son to go to Convent?

Corie 41:16

Well, if all is into marine biologists and space explorers and things, maybe I should get performed sex. Why not? You know, I mean this is 2026, you know. I mean, it's a new who knows? Who knows what will happen by the time he reached there?

SPEAKER_04 41:26

But I mean, this is we I but when I did marine biology at university, I remember like friends being like, what you gonna do with that? You're gonna be broke your whole life. Like, what like they would all be lawyers, engineers, doctors, and of course, all of those things are so important and critical, and we can't under underscore that. But so I was very much like the ugly duckling, right? Like the one where they were like, She's gonna be on a beach eating sand for the rest of her life. But actually, fast forward, and we're seeing this huge shift globally. I think since COVID, we're especially we're realizing how important our natural world is. And without being able to know, understand, and value it, we will find ourselves, humanity, in a very sticky place. Of course. And so I think there is new recognition about the importance of these types of roles.

Corie 42:19

For sure. The truth is that it's important in so many different roles. We have a we have a real doctor lawyer engineer society. So your parents are happy when you tell them undergrad you went away to study or I did go, I went away to study, I went to England University. I see.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

And um my dad, I should say my dad is British. He lives there and I've lived there for the last 40 years. But my mom is Chinese and my dad is British. So I went, so yeah, so I went away to study.

SPEAKER_06 42:41

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

And I mean, oh god, like if they weren't if they weren't happy after this, like, come on, I took Will Smith into the deep sea.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

Like, if they're not happy after this, which is very very possible for Caribbean parents, they'll be like, so next time Obama.

Corie 42:59

Yeah, you know, like always do a little better.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

So I no, I do think they are happy and they are proud. And but I mean this expedition is really a dream come true. I left after I did my master's. I did my I went on my first expedition, and it actually, coincidence, left from Trinidad.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

I see.

SPEAKER_04 43:21

We have a very good port, and so they were mobilizing here. And my master supervisor, who was British, he invited me on board because he knew I lived here, right? And so we went and we went to the Cayman trench, which is the deepest point in the Caribbean Sea, it's about seven kilometers deep, and we found these incredible new ecosystems all of these new things.

Corie 43:40

This is remote vehicle knowing. This is also remote vehicle, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

And though I did go to some in a later expedition, I did dive at those. Um and we found all these new things, and I was hooked after that. But I left. This was how old was I? It was my master's. So 2000. 2010. Around day. And so now 16 years later, we are leaving from the same place that I left on for my first expedition. And now I'm leading the expedition. That is nice. And it's not a team of British scientists, it's a team of Trini scientists.

Corie 44:17

Congrats, good ones.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

And so this really feels like a very full circle moment.

Corie 44:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

And I hope it's the first of many.

Corie 44:24

Yeah, well, that's it's good. It's good, it's good. And I think it is meaningful when I saw the work that you're doing. Because it it we get hope and inspiration from all kinds of places sometimes. Just as people from here, it's good to see people like us in spaces. Because that they have somebody now who by the beach, hopefully they watch it being careful, but they by the beach like you are three years old. And wondering the same thing, it's just the truth. That's that's where it is. So when they see people like you is encouraging, but the initial when you went, you did my marine biologies where you went and do.

SPEAKER_06 44:52

Exactly.

Corie 44:52

And that's Southampton?

SPEAKER_06 44:53

Yes.

Corie 44:54

And then your PhD is in other. Listen, these fellas are good Marcos Jess and are they not?

SPEAKER_04 45:00

Like stalker. I mean, no, yes, Southampton. And then since then I've worked in Hawaii, I've worked in London, I've worked um in California, and but now I'm very happy to be home.

SPEAKER_06 45:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:16

Because I think we there's so much for us to do here. And it's not just the research that needs to be done, but it's also creating new generations of scientists. And also about working with the government to make sure that these incredible natural resources that we have here are around for generations to come. Yeah.

Corie 45:35

Right.

Coral Reefs Protection And Enforcement

Corie 45:36

So when you say things like that, it takes me back to Booker Reef, right? Because when I was a child, I remember what Booker Reef was like and what um what is it called in next place again?

SPEAKER_04 45:45

Nylon Pool.

Corie 45:46

Nylon Pool. I remember that tour. And I remember going recently, and it's a whole boat ride, it's a whole fet, you know. I mean, I was one with Treasure Queen, it was barely anything to see compared to what I saw as a child there. Yep. So isn't that was it expected that the Booker Reef was depleted? And would people know that?

SPEAKER_04 46:03

So since the 70s, 60s, 70s, Caribbean reefs across the board have been very much in decline.

SPEAKER_06 46:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:11

And that is because of the amount of development that we have happening here. So a lot, there's a lot of sedimentation from coastal development, etc. And then when you combine that with other types of pollution and climate change, right? We are, it's like they just reefs just cannot cope. And so now, I mean, I was talking to one of the team members who's sailing with us, Dr. Angela Gnace. She's at the Institute of Marine Affairs. Um I was like, you know, out of 10, where would you see Trinan Tobago's coral reefs are? And if 10 is like perfect condition, right? And she was like, man, two, three? So this is happening globally. It is worse in the Caribbean. Okay. Um, but you know, Baku, there are secret patches of Baku where they are like for instance, Elkhorn Coral, the ones that look like the antlers of elks, where they're coming back. Okay. Right. And so with the right actions being taken, we can try to turn things around. Um, but I think you're right, right? Like now the tours that happen is a fit.

Corie 47:28

Is that right?

SPEAKER_04 47:28

Is a fed, right? And like that's fine if that's what you want to do. But then there should be also there should be tours for people that do want to hear about the reef, right? And understand more about it, etc. etc. Not everybody needs to go on a Fed and go to Fed. And you know, I think Internat, we have a really, really poor track record, Trinan Tobago. We have a really, really poor track record of protection and enforcement. And she laughed. I did not laugh. And no, in anything we're talking about, right? And our natural there should be places here in Trinan Tobago that are off limits where you can't, and sure, like again, probably before our time, people used to be walking all over Baku. Do you remember?

Corie 48:14

Yeah, I remember the the a big part of ours was a good education. 100%, right? So a big part of all tours was that education where they tell us why we need to preserve it, how to treat with it, what to touch, what not to touch. But I don't know, I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

But like back in the day, they used to give these jelly shoes and used to want to walk out all over. That's it. And so, like, it so it shows 100%, right? So it shows we can make positive changes, right? But it but there does need to be that stepping up from regulators, from the government to put in place these rules that people will have to abide by. And it's not just, I mean, it's not just like the reefs and the natural world. We saw the jet ski accident happen a few months ago. The awful tragedy happened in Pigeon Point. And it's like, sure, I'm sure it's gonna go quiet for a bit, and then Yeah, so there's horse.

Corie 49:00

You know, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

But and we just we can't afford to be like that with much of the natural world, especially the deep sea, because animals down there are incredibly fragile. I mean, they're corals that are like thousands of years old, like older than the wheel, older than pyramids, right? And so they don't deal well with impact. And so we need to tread very, very carefully, and that requires some leadership from those in power.

Corie 49:27

Of course. So part of your work is the advocacy to get those things done?

SPEAKER_04 49:30

Yeah, so we have so five of us set up a marine and ocean NGO, hey, called species. Thank you for flagging at the beginning, and we do research, education, and advocacy. And so part of that is doing science like what we're doing on the expedition, but then taking that science to policymakers so that we can try to see positive change. But then also, for instance, ahead of this expedition, we've been going into schools around Trinidad, around Tobago, to tell kids all about the expedition, how they can follow along. Many of them are gonna join us virtually on the ship, get a tour, see the deep sea, et cetera. Because this is how we we have to change the hearts and minds of people, right? If we want things to be better.

Corie 50:12

For sure, and people and the public to be sensitized too. Because I was real encouraged when you said you had schools and you said you had some visits on the vessel, right? Or or at least calls where people could.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

Yeah, so we're gonna do a few things. So before we leave, we're having several members of government. They're coming on board to see the vessel, which is very exciting. Um but then once we set sail on Monday, we are we're gonna have several at least 16 live interactions with whether it is members of the government, schools, primary schools, secondary schools, some NGOs, whatever. And they will join us live so they can A see the ship, B, see and hear what we're discovering. And C, we they're also going to, they can ask us questions, you know, see science happening in real time. And that's something very special.

Education Livestreaming And Public Access

SPEAKER_04 51:05

I mean, when I used to go to so again, I'm aging myself here, but on the first expedition I ever went on, again to the Cayman Trench, and then Antarctica after that, and a few other places, they you they used to give you an email address when you got on your ship. And they that was the only internet you could get, that email address. And then they would twice a day, they would download everyone's emails.

SPEAKER_07 51:31

Oh, that's funny.

SPEAKER_04 51:32

And then, but but you couldn't, they couldn't be over a certain size, right? Otherwise, they would bounce. So, and that was the connection you had. If you wanted to call somebody, you had to get a phone card and then like be dialing up in your in your room phone, like whatever. Whereas now the students who are coming on this expedition, I'm like, y'all don't know how easy y'all have it. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 51:51

Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_04 51:52

They could just be with Starlink, they could just be like what you know, WhatsApp calling. Yeah, they're like kids at home or whatever it is, right? Um, so it's a very different time, but this incredible internet connection we have is giving us this opportunity where we can bring the deep sea and the science we're doing to thousands of people in Tradan Tobago. Recently, this the same ship was in Argentina, and they were doing the same thing, deep sea exploration, and they the expedition went viral.

SPEAKER_06 52:23

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 52:24

Like they were literally getting millions of views a day on the live stream, right? They were playing it in gyms, gas stations. People would literally tune in every night. Families would tune in every night to watch things happen, right? It just it just went crazy.

Corie 52:43

Yeah, I guess you're right about the innate, you know, the need to explore for people. So we'll set up the call of Divo when we um by the firework time, right? We'll set up the fireworks, we go for the fight.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

No, if we see, I mean, you can't see the fireworks through a camera.

Corie 53:01

Uh right. It has to be a low-like camera. Of course, of course, of course.

SPEAKER_04 53:04

But we can set up and then, like, we, I mean, you'll see new species ecosystems like amazing.

Corie 53:09

We got that way when you invite me, I could say I see it already. I don't want to do any submissible. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 53:14

Oh my.

Corie 53:15

That might be my way out. Well, when you mention students, is UE, right? Is UE students who come in? So they're they will be studying marine biology, no?

SPEAKER_04 53:22

So we have students exactly who are studying um environmental science. Okay, undergraduates, we have postgraduates, and I think there are eight or nine coming from the University of West Indies, um, UE. And then there's one coming from University of Plymouth, one coming from a Spanish institution, a lot, a lot of students. This is really about training as much as it is doing the research.

Corie 53:45

Makes sense. And you were researching UE now as well.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

So I'm an honorary research fellow at UE. Um, but my primary affiliation, hey, is species, the NGO. Okay. But then I also have a relationship with the University of California, Santa Barbara.

Corie 54:00

Okay, I watch you. I watch you.

SPEAKER_04 54:02

So yeah, multiple hats, you know. I see, I realize, I realize.

Corie 54:05

I see why you need to discipline to the ocean a few times a year, you know what I mean? How often you do this? How often you'll be on expeditions? Is it three years apart? Or you're putting in several at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 54:14

So, like at one point I was doing three of these a year. So you had to see for like three months. It's like offshore live in, right? But this one, I mean, this is the first, this this will be the one and only this year for me.

SPEAKER_06 54:24

This year.

SPEAKER_04 54:24

Um, but it's hard, right? I think people don't talk about how hard it can be to sustain a personal life. Of course, yeah. When you're doing it can be a little weird. Like 100%, right? Um, so no, I'm very happy. This is the only one this year.

Corie 54:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:37

And it's gonna be great. It will, it will, it will.

Corie 54:40

We're looking forward to hearing from it. Something you mentioned there about the the

Pollution Where Humans Never Go

Corie 54:44

kind of answer. When you talk about corals at thousands of years old, uh, my first thoughts was okay, well, thank God humans can't reach it. There's only people like you who trained and went through everything and have a passion for it will go there anyway. But I saw you say in an interview that when you all do expeditions, you find pollution in the places that people never been.

SPEAKER_04 55:01

Yeah, so saying people can't reach it is kind of true, kind of not.

Corie 55:05

Right.

SPEAKER_04 55:06

Because we can have impact without actually going somewhere. And that's what we see time and time again in the deep sea. So climate change, the ocean is warming, it's getting more acidic. That has an impact, even if no one goes there. Trash. I mean, let me tell you. So once I was we were exploring the Gulf of Mexico, or Gulf, yeah. Anyway, we're not gonna say what I was just about to say. Gulf of Mexico, and uh we the R R V touched down on the seafloor, the robot. We were about a kilometer deep, and the day before we had found this incredible shipwreck, like hundreds of years old, had all these like artifacts all in, and it was so amazing. And so, this this dive, we had another sonar target we were exploring, and we we expected it to be another shipwreck. So we were all taking bets, right? People were like throwing down the best chocolate, the best whatever, right? About how old this shipwreck life gets very sad on these ships sometimes, Corey, okay? And so and so we touched down on the seafloor, and like you could hear the anticipated, like you could, it was just silent because people were so excited to see what we were gonna see. And we started to drive closer to it, and you could see these very angular shapes looming out of the distance, and we were like, okay, angular. That means it's a more recent shipwreck, probably metal. And then we found ourselves driving through a field of fridges, dishwashers, stoves, dryer, garbage.

Corie 56:37

I thought it's plastic bottle and it's done.

SPEAKER_04 56:39

So we definitely get plastic bottles too. Plastic is everywhere, right? But no, like we because the deep sea is like the bottom, when things go overboard, that's where it ends up, of course, right? So we see everything from household appliances to actually about 10,000 shipping containers are lost a year. Every year at ship. Like, or not even a storm. They like apparently they've fallen off all the time. 10,000 them a year, just dropping off ships. Yes. And those end up in the deep sea, right? There's plastics, there's chemical pollutants, there's I've seen everything like dolls, clothing, like cups, plates, like garbage bags filled with God knows what. I don't want to know, like, you know. So the deep sea ends up being this sort of repository, the last resting place of many things. And then because it's so cold, a lot of things last for a very long time. Exactly. They're very well preserved. And so all of these things have impacts. So often we go to somewhere for the first time, and even though no human has ever been there before, maybe impact on it. We find evidence of ourselves before we've been there. Oh my god. Yeah, and this is time and time again, right? From the Mariana Trench to Antarctica to right here after Nat, I'm sure we're gonna see some.

Corie 57:59

Yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 58:00

Yeah.

Corie 58:00

No, I've seen my millions, because this just is now intriguing. Like, I just want to watch this live stream.

SPEAKER_04 58:05

But to see what kind of trash we find.

Corie 58:08

Let me see, let me see why. You know, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 58:11

But I mean, like, there's it's not, it's sure, trash, yes, but you have to think about all the other amazing things we're gonna see, right? Like there's like life down there is like, you know, Dr. Seuss? Like cat in the hat, how he had all those like weird animals. That's like what life is like on deep sea. There's glow in the dark sharks, there's coral that's thousands of years old, older than the wheel, right? There's um these worms that live only on the dead bones of whales. Way, bones of dead whales, right? Like there's two worms, that one of which is named after a marine biology professor here, the first professor at UE. So we've named one after her. And they get like three feet long. We get giant sharks, we get, you name it, it's down there, it's weird. And that's what we're so excited to see.

Corie 59:04

Glenn Dark Shark, you're going by these gluten dark sharks. I don't how cool is that though? Shut down stereo ready.

SPEAKER_05 59:10

We're good enough for the dark likes, they can just like creep upon you. Hello, Corey.

Corie 59:16

You see where Will Smith get quite?

SPEAKER_04 59:20

That is No, there's like a sea cucumber that swims that we call the headless chicken monster because it looks like a literal, like headless turkey, right? Like there's all of these weird but totally amazing things like anglofish. Can I tell you a story about anglofish? Okay. So anglofish, of course, the deep sea is dark. You've said that so many times. And it's massive. That means it's hard to find also the fish itself is massive.

Corie 59:44

Or the deep sea is massive, okay. Deep sea is massive.

SPEAKER_04 59:46

Fish is not that big. Okay. Um, and so that means it's really hard to find a mate. Okay.

Corie 59:52

Right?

SPEAKER_04 59:52

We think it's hard enough for us, like walking around with apps and like all the other things. Like, no. They don't have any tinder on there, and it's dark, right? So they struggle to find each other. So when they do find each other, the female anglofish is about 60 times larger than the male. So let's start there. The male, she has her beautiful lure, right, that lights up. He doesn't have that. Instead, he has giant nostrils and giant eyes. Okay, you can tell he's very attractive. Okay. And when he finds a female, he gets so overwhelmed by her charisma, her scent, her great looks that he bites onto her. He bites onto her side. And when he bites onto her, it triggers this whole reaction inside of his body. And before he knows it, his lips fuse to her side. So he can never leave again. Oh, it gets better. We're not done. We're not done. So the lips fuse to her side. And then all of his whole blood system, like veins, arteries, all starts to dissolve, right? And then before he knows it, he is permanently attached to her side. He gives her sperm whenever she needs, and she keeps him alive by giving him everything he needs. And that is how they spend the rest of their lives.

Corie 1:01:22

Anglofish is Trinidadian. Anglofish is Trinidadian.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:30

Right.

Corie 1:01:31

So Trinidadian women have been to the deep sea before in life.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:37

I would say Trinity Mad, but sure.

Corie 1:01:40

That's insane. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

And so these are the kinds of stories that we want trainees to know about, to be fascinated by, to laugh at. Because they exist like these iconic species, these iconic ecosystems. They're in the deep sea too. We just need to get them in front of people to be captivated.

Corie 1:01:59

All right, well, wait till

Deep-Sea TV Sperm Whales And Safety

Corie 1:02:00

we sold. We sold. We're definitely going to talk to you while you are next year. We bring some light. I mean, whatever bet only making, I want a side bet. I want to be in Omnipool. I want to welcome a pool with David and them I lost that time. So I'm looking for something. I'm looking for something to join. So when this is done, where do you have planned? Where are you going from it?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:19

So excitingly, on this, so I dabble in TV, right? Um, I'm a National Geographic Explorer. I make a lot of TV for them. Um, for instance, if you have Disney Plus or National Geographic, you can find Welcome to Earth, which we did with Will Smith. Um, and we're currently in the process of making Secrets of the Deep, which is exciting. Um, we I've just done my first shoot, which was in Mauritius with sperm whales.

Corie 1:02:44

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:44

Um, swimming with them, um, diving and swimming with them, which was incredible.

Corie 1:02:48

This is not submissive. No, this was just free.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

And let me tell you, like some of those, it was a it was an incredible population of sperm whales off Mauritius that only has 25 individuals. Mostly women, moment, female and children.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:04

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:05

Um, because the males tend to go off and roam the oceans, right? And just like humans, the female whales all help to take care of each other's children.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:16

So, like aunties take care, friends take care, and they all sort of ray the kids together. And so we got in, I got into the water with these to film them and film with them. And think about kids, right? Some kids are a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:35

Right? Some kids, some kids are a lot, some kids, kids just don't have a filter, kids are just like all up in your business. That's exactly how these whales were. They were literally like big kids, except big kids, I literally mean bigger than this studio, right? And so you're having this whale that's only like three years old, but it's like coming at you because it wants to play. And it's coming at you because it wants to see what you are, right? And be inquisitive. So they don't, but they do. The sperm worlds have like a long lower jaw. That's really skinny. Think about movie deck, right? And so they don't really bite, but I mean don't really bite.

Corie 1:04:17

You say that.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:18

But they like, but they use, but they're incredible because they use that lower jaw to hunt giant squid. Okay, right? So they hunt it's incredible to think about. They go on these deep sea journeys every day, the moms, to find food giant squid down in the deep sea. When they go down, she stays in contact with her baby the whole time at the surface through clicking.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:38

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:39

How they talk to each other. And so the baby knows the exact clicks that it's its mom. And then she comes back, having fed her fill, like eaten her fill of giant squid, and she feeds her baby young. And so these animals, which we think of as being shallow water species, like sperm whales, like leather-backed turtles, they actually spend a considerable amount of time in the deep sea.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:01

And so we're it's almost like changing the way we think about animals and where they live, right? These are actually deep sea dwellers and not shallow water dwellers. But so, all of that to say, we're I'm currently filming a new series for National Geographic, Secrets of the Deep. It'll be out either next year or the following yeah. Um, and really excited about that.

Corie 1:05:21

Yeah. You are frightened for you. You live good, good maravand, you're making some life choices. Last thing, I'm a curiousity kill my last thing, but so with things like those, you sure yes, be safe. Like, what is the safety? This is worrying. I like the submersible thing, nothing can bite you in there. So when you're going in there, you know that the species is not going to try to attack you.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:43

So, because of the pressure, these submersibles, depending on what depth, so the ones that go to a kilometer, right, they're made of acrylic. Right, right. The acrylic is seven inches thick. So, like, I can't even do that. So big, right? Like bigger than this. And so nothing can get to. You do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:01

I like it.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:01

But then the ones that go deeper are made of titanium.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:05

Seven inches thick. So again, nothing can get to you. That this is doing deep scientific exploration is one of the safest things you can do. It's far safer than getting in a plane, far safer than getting in a car. And these are things we do every single day. Okay. So, Corey, when I call you in a few years' time and I'm like, Corey, the sub is here. We go in.

Corie 1:06:25

I go in, but you're not telling me you're gonna swim with these chat with these what is this?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

Sperm wheels.

Corie 1:06:29

No kind of what going on. You just free diving. Why are we doing this? For what? Just vibe?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:36

No, because we're filming with them.

Corie 1:06:38

So it's just to learn about the species.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

To learn about the species and to also be able to share it with as many people as possible.

Corie 1:06:44

Alright. Alright. I'll see where your passion lies.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:46

But let me tell you one thing. So when you go in, so for me, I love going down into the deep sea. Again, it's such a privilege to be amongst the first people on the planet to see these places. But there's something about when you're coming back to the surface and you're seeing it getting lighter and lighter and lighter and lighter. And then you break the surface of the ocean and you're able to open the hatch, etc. It feels like coming home. That you're hit by sunlight, you're hit by all these smells, whether it's the smell of the ship or the smell of the ocean or whatever it is. It is literally like coming home. And so one of my favorite parts of going to the deep sea is coming back.

Corie 1:07:23

I'm glad to hear that's all right. So glad that we want to get back at all. How long you stayed on?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:28

That's a great I'm glad you asked that because it can be like 10, 11 hours and there's no toilet.

Corie 1:07:35

Oh, that's possible. Is that depends kind of situation we're going on?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:38

So you have a few options. Depends is one of the You are joking, you're laughing. But depends is one of the options. They literally say to you before you go down, you can weigh an adult diaper.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:49

You can dehydrate yourself. I suppose. Which means like stopping drinking the day before. Right. Or you or you can, for men, it's easier. You have your little like.

Corie 1:08:01

Yeah, I suppose.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:02

I don't know what you call them. Like the little pea contraption thing. Whatever. Right?

Corie 1:08:05

It's called a corner. It's have a corner or anything, like a hill corner, like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:09

Is it really called a corner?

Corie 1:08:11

No, you just go in a corner as a man.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:14

My god, do not put that in.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:17

You cannot be in the corner of this version. You will never be invited back. But no, there's like a little we don't have a pea container or whatever. But no, because you're like, we're so remember, it's like small, so you're so it's so close, I'm like touching you, right? Like you're literally like sitting down tight, tight, tight. So much less if you had to do anything more than we wee yang. Yeah. You'd never be invited back. Oh my god. You'd never be invited. That would be a horrific thing for anybody.

unknown 1:08:42

Yeah.

Corie 1:08:43

Every time I feel convinced, every time I feel like convinced, you bring my ride back to land.

How To Watch And Join The Community

Corie 1:08:47

You take it in Macri. You take it in.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:50

We are actually gonna have a WhatsApp community where we'll be putting out updates every day when we're getting in the water, what we're gonna be exploring, so that people know when.

Corie 1:08:59

We gotta check on you for your own safety, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:01

I should definitely like plug. So please follow along. You can watch via the ship is owned by Schmidt Ocean Institute. So they have a YouTube channel, a Twitch channel, follow along live streams there.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:12

To be there.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:13

Or species, follow all of our socials, or Schmidt Ocean Institute's socials. Just spell species for people S-P-E-S-E-A-S. So follow along. We will have a WhatsApp community, anybody can join. This is really about bringing the deep sea to Trinidad and Tobago. We want this to get as many people as possible.

Corie 1:09:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We join. All of us join in. We're proud that you are one of us. It feels good to have you there. It feels good to even I didn't know it before, but now we know we have a Trinidadian-led expedition. But Diva, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time to come to I know it's a very, very busy time and you have plenty running around to do. I thought it's just like flagged on her. So I'm happy to learn about that. I feel like a little less in the dark now. I feel like it's 450 feet rather than a little less in the dark. But thank you very much. Thanks so much for coming. Thanks for having me, Corey. It's up to you soon.