Ever found yourself questioning the boundaries of fidelity within marriage? Today we unravel the intricacies of both physical and emotional infidelity. We dissect the subtle yet significant behaviors that might indicate a breach of trust, from micro-cheating to the types of kisses exchanged. By providing insights into the dynamics of different forms of affairs, we aim to shed light on the true gravity of these actions and help listeners understand where the lines are drawn in their own relationships.
The journey of love can take us through the fiery throes of passion, but what happens when that passion crosses into the realm of an affair? We delve into the intense emotional state known as limerence and the transformation love undergoes over time, referring to the work of Dr. Helen Fisher to unpack how married individuals caught up in an affair experience this phenomenon. Furthermore, we provide a beacon of hope to those whose marriages have been rocked by infidelity by introducing our Save My Marriage program, offering practical tools and heartfelt guidance for healing and rebuilding the sacred bond of marriage. Join us on this powerful exploration of love, trust, and the resilience of relationships.
Relationship Radio is hosted by CEO of Marriage Helper, Kimberly Beam Holmes, and founder of Marriage Helper, Dr. Joe Beam.
Regardless of your situation, what we teach will not only make your relationships better, but will also help you to become the best version of yourself along the way.
Relationship Radio is released every Wednesday and is an extension of Marriage Helper.
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. We love hearing from you!
For more resources about your specific situation, visit marriagehelper.com.
We have a new website for the It Starts With Attraction podcast!
Visit www.itstartswithattraction.com to check it out!
Ever found yourself questioning the boundaries of fidelity within marriage? Today we unravel the intricacies of both physical and emotional infidelity. We dissect the subtle yet significant behaviors that might indicate a breach of trust, from micro-cheating to the types of kisses exchanged. By providing insights into the dynamics of different forms of affairs, we aim to shed light on the true gravity of these actions and help listeners understand where the lines are drawn in their own relationships.
The journey of love can take us through the fiery throes of passion, but what happens when that passion crosses into the realm of an affair? We delve into the intense emotional state known as limerence and the transformation love undergoes over time, referring to the work of Dr. Helen Fisher to unpack how married individuals caught up in an affair experience this phenomenon. Furthermore, we provide a beacon of hope to those whose marriages have been rocked by infidelity by introducing our Save My Marriage program, offering practical tools and heartfelt guidance for healing and rebuilding the sacred bond of marriage. Join us on this powerful exploration of love, trust, and the resilience of relationships.
Relationship Radio is hosted by CEO of Marriage Helper, Kimberly Beam Holmes, and founder of Marriage Helper, Dr. Joe Beam.
Regardless of your situation, what we teach will not only make your relationships better, but will also help you to become the best version of yourself along the way.
Relationship Radio is released every Wednesday and is an extension of Marriage Helper.
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. We love hearing from you!
For more resources about your specific situation, visit marriagehelper.com.
We have a new website for the It Starts With Attraction podcast!
Visit www.itstartswithattraction.com to check it out!
We get this question often what's the difference between an affair and an emotional affair? We assume what they mean by that is what's the difference between a physical affair and emotional affair, because sometimes spouses will justify themselves to the other spouse. Well, I didn't really do anything with that person, it was just an emotional connection. As if that means you shouldn't be as upset about it Should you be, let's talk about it. Hi, I'm Dr Joe Beam, with Marriage Helper, along with Kimberly Holmes, our CEO, our fearless leader. How many times do you think you've heard that question in the last few years of working with marriages?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a ton In fact. I don't know when it's going to post, but I recorded an episode last week, not exactly titled this or about an emotional affair specifically, but micro-cheating. When does something become an affair? Is it crossing the line, if you do digital messaging and you know all of this kind of stuff? So people do ask this question to know whether they've been cheated on or to know if they're crossing a line, cheating for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's do two things here. First, let's define the difference between an emotional affair and a physical affair, and once we get that clear, I've got some questions about this. Micro-cheating stuff Sounds good. So an emotional affair typically means we have not done anything physical, although that might be a hedge. It may mean, well, we have kissed, we have hugged, we have cuddled, but we haven't actually had intercourse.
Speaker 1:Because I know of a lady once who said it was only an emotional affair because it didn't involve intercourse, but it definitely involved a lot of sex, and she was just saying, well, we didn't do anything.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, you did. But the way we think of it is this If it's an emotional affair, then there hasn't even been kissing, not even hand-holding, if it's being romantic hand-holding. And so the way I would and we'll find out if Kimberly agrees is that a physical affair is the first time it actually turns physical. If you're touching lips with each other, if you're particularly touching certain areas of the body that you shouldn't be touching, then as far as I'm concerned it has become a physical affair. Now, if you would rather define that as well it only includes intercourse, then I think you're going to find yourself in a very big gray area where that you may be saying it's only an emotional affair, but if your spouse knew what happened, he or she would be saying oh no, no, no, that's not emotional, that's physical. Well, it may be emotional, but it's also physical. You agree or disagree with that?
Speaker 2:I would absolutely agree with that. I especially kissing and onward, you know, with hand-holding. I think that's where there can be some blurred lines of is it still physical or is it emotional? Okay, but definitely once you kiss and anything past that I mean. Think about back when people are dating, right, like typically the kissing and what goes past. That is when they say their relationship has turned physical. So agreed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm thinking here. I remember a guy who looked me right in the eye and said I didn't really do anything wrong, it was only oral sex. Now my friend, Dr Barry McCarthy, who is a very famous sexologist, researcher, counselor etc. Points that out as being a thing that people would call a high opportunity, low involvement. Meaning yes, I did something sexual, but because I didn't commit myself all the way to it or because I wasn't feeling strong emotion at the time, it's okay. And he said more men will use that justification than women by far. And what we're saying is a high opportunity, low involvement affair. Meaning you're not going all the way sexually or that you don't have the strong emotional connection to each other selling an affair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Dr Barry McCarthy may call it high involvement, high whatever. High involvement, low, no high opportunity low involvement, yes, but I call it someone being an idiot, because how in the world can they think, oh, I'm just going to do this oral stuff and it's not? It's not, it's not physical, like it's not going to hurt my spouse?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, he also as a kind of affair. The Barry talks about Barry and our friends. He's a great guy. He talks about one call an ongoing compartmentalized affair. It's where there is a strong emotional connection, but only on occasion, like if he and she worked for a company but they're on the other side of the country and every year in the company convention they live together as if they're husband and wife and then for the rest of the year they don't even email each other, don't even contact each other. And they justify that because it's they don't deal with it because it's car compartmentalized. I can say that word car compartmentalized, which means it has nothing to do with my real life, with my family, and it's ongoing and that it will happen once or twice a year. And so they're actually some affairs out there like that.
Speaker 2:And it's still people justifying about saying but yeah, it's amazing what people will do to justify their selfish desires. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so a physical affair involves physical interaction. An emotional affair actually can be more intense in the sense that a physical affair may not involve much emotion If it's a high opportunity, low involvement. You know the guys on a convention in Chicago and somehow in a bar he winds up with a woman that night. It's still wrong, but there's no strong emotional connection. It was, we did something, so in that sense it's actually not as intense as the emotional affair. But then that would beg the question well, what if it's an emotional affair that has no physicality? Is that still more intense than an affair that has both emotion and physicality? What would you say?
Speaker 2:Great question. Well, I would think off the top of my head. The emotional part is what draws people in and really gets them connected, and a strong desire to wanna be long-term with the other person.
Speaker 1:If it's not just sex.
Speaker 2:Right if it's not just sex, but I don't see how, especially if it's already gone or if it's gone physical. There's so many more bonding chemicals that have happened in the brain at that point that it would add to the feelings of love and acceptance from the other person. But now also there's the dopamine and oxytocin, so it would have to be a stronger reaction.
Speaker 1:If it's both emotional and physical and emotional.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I dealt with a couple not that long ago and he was saying well, you know, I travel a lot because of my business and now occasionally we'll meet people and have sex with them on the road, but I don't really care about them, I'm just having sex, so my wife shouldn't be all this upset about it.
Speaker 2:Heavens to Betsy. What'd you say? Heavens to Betsy? Who's Betsy, the woman who is frustrated and hurting by this.
Speaker 1:And she was kind of looking at him like, what planet are you from? Yeah, now, does it hurt more if it's both emotional and physical? Actually, it depends on which gender you are. Men tend to be more upset about the physical part that their spouse said was somebody else, and women tend to be more upset about the emotional part. Now, I'm not saying they don't get upset about the other, but in terms of which one's the bigger deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, most of the affairs, all affairs, are gonna cause problems, sure, even if they're allowed. What I mean by that is if you say, well, you sleep with who you want to and I sleep with who I want to, and that'll be fine. We get people on our workshop all the time. Well, not every workshop, but we get people on our workshop that live in their lifestyle. And back when I used to talk to them before they came, which has been a long time ago, and they would say, well, we're gonna stay in that lifestyle. Well, why don't you help save our marriage? To which I would reply I think you just need to save your time and your money, because if you come over here and we help you work this out, if you still live in our lifestyle. It's gonna happen again. You can't do the things that create emotional connections and expect no emotional connection to occur.
Speaker 2:That's right and that I mean this is becoming more and more common. We had several people, even just yesterday, contacting us saying we agreed that we were gonna be in an open marriage, but my spouse isn't doing it the way I want them to, or they went and had intercourse with someone else and I wasn't there, so they violated the boundaries.
Speaker 1:Or they did it secretly.
Speaker 2:Or they're because they have more free time. They're able to do it way more than me, to which I just look at the conversation and say how did you expect this was gonna turn out?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did you think was gonna happen?
Speaker 2:What did you think was gonna happen here?
Speaker 1:But see, in some research, couples who first get into that kind of lifestyle in the short term their marital satisfaction increases, their sexual satisfaction increases in the short term. Basically, we do something in you that's exciting, You're all for it, I'm falling for it. But if you look at it over time, I'm thinking of a couple. Right now we deal with that. The reason she divorced her husband that had been doing that and the reason she divorced her husband was because the guy that she was gonna go with, who of course divorced his wife to make this happen, was better at oral sex and so that's why she went with him. She said Banned on, the husband took the kid. I mean, it gets so complicated, so messed up and we just say, if that's what you're doing and you want us to help you with your marriage, I don't know how.
Speaker 2:Mm-mm Right, because there's a premise that we work from and believe at Marriage Helper that a strong component of a strong marriage's commitment that you're going to decide to stay together through the hard times and all of the things. And so in that example of the story you just gave what's gonna stop that woman from leaving and taking her kid with her again, again, when she finds someone once again better and I'll never forget the woman who looked at me and she said I know he's having an affair.
Speaker 1:And I said how? How do you know? She said because he's doing the same things with her he did with me when he had the affair on his first wife. Okay, all right. Now, kimberly, we often talk about limerence. We don't have time to do a whole session on it here but limerence is when the emotions become extremely powerful. Basically, limerence is characterized by a craving for oneness with the other person. In other words, there are a bunch of different characteristics of limerence. Sometimes they vary from person to person, but that one is the fact that I'm willing to give up anyone or anything in my life to have you Emotionally connected to me. That's the key if you want to figure out why, if it's limerence or not, because one of the questions we will get- as a matter of fact.
Speaker 1:I Can't read that without my glasses. What about you? I'm happy to read it.
Speaker 2:What differentiates a limerent affair from a couple who starts meeting each other by being single and has had no affairs From falling in love and getting married? It seems the feelings are the same and after a few years reality sets in and the marriage Starts to fall apart. So the question is what differentiates a limerent affair from a couple who starts by falling in love and then gets married, even though they both may experience limerence?
Speaker 1:It's still emerence. You see, people need to understand. We don't say that limerence in and of itself is always bad. If there are two single people and neither one of them is bad for the other, it's not unusual that people go through limerence before they get married Maybe he will, maybe she will, maybe they both will when they have these intense longing for emotional connection. I want to live with you the rest of my life. And if they're both single, which means it's not going to destroy other relationships, and if not, one of them is bad for the other, because if a single person is in limerence and the other person is really bad for them, they're not gonna ever see that. And when their friends try to tell them that person's bad for you, you don't understand. Now people say so you don't have anything against a limerence if it's between two single people.
Speaker 1:No is see, we look at limerence as being bad. It's matter of fact, not just us, but the in social psychology or sociology and psychology. Limerence is bad when it takes this relationship and destroys it Because one of them is now wanting to go to a new relationship that they think is going to be far better. Now let's go back to the original thing. Okay, so two single people, all in love, get married. Is the limerence going to end? Yes, it makes no difference if you're single or married or whatever limerence Always ends.
Speaker 1:It has a shelf life. Dr Helen Fisher is better fact at the time we're recording this. Kimberly is gonna be interviewing the next day after we record this, dr Helen Fisher.
Speaker 2:I'm so jealous, I'm excited, I'm jealous.
Speaker 1:I'm one of her biggest fans. I love that lady. Anyway, she will point out that it has to end. She's a biological anthropologist that it has to. If you think about it, that's true because it's so intense. If you say that that level of intensity, your productivity just goes to pieces. Civilization could not survive if people wouldn't a limerence and stay to limits. So it's going to end.
Speaker 1:Whether you started off as single or whether you left a marriage for the other person, limerence is going to still in. And so that's why we know that newly weds will have one kind of emotion for each other Shortly after the marriage and two or three years later it's gonna be a different emotion. It can still be love. It's not gonna be the limerent kind of love.
Speaker 1:Now, alice and I have been married off and on for 53 years. So in 53 years is there any limerence there? No, no. Is there love there? Deeper, deeper, far deeper? Then, with limerence it's not perfect love. There's still days when I act like an absolute jerk and now let's wondering why in the world if I married him all these times. But but it's a deep love that keeps you together, that binds you together. So, yes, that excitement is gonna fade and if you think the best excitement, that kind of intensity, is what you need to say together, your mindset has been to some degree corrupted by novels and movies and fairy tales, making you think you're always going to feel that way. Reality is, those emotions will change.
Speaker 2:Even the Hallmark movies, as much as we love them.
Speaker 1:I just read that the Hallmark researchers are on the verge of discovering another plot. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:You sent me this yesterday and I rolled my eyes, which is a sign of contempt, so I apologize.
Speaker 1:My wife, my daughters love Hallmark movies. Sometimes I watch them as well.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, For a happy marriage. You watch them.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, here's what we know. We know that many people are affected by their spouse being involved in an affair, or maybe they've experienced affairs as well, and affairs as well From the research. That is difficult to do is the research of how many marriages actually are affected by affairs, but from what we can see, it's somewhere between 30 to 50 percent is believed. How many marriages are affected by an affair, and we believe that because we experience probably about 70 percent of the people who come to us it's because an affair has affected their marriage.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and the reason we can't give an accurate statistic from overall research? People don't tell the truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. I mean, I even sent you something a couple of weeks ago and it was talking about how many marriages have been affected by an affair, and the older people got the more they admitted it and maybe even had more of a chance to.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of ways you can, because many more years together.
Speaker 2:Exactly All of that to say. We realize that if this is what you're struggling with, then you are not alone and we have a way that we can help you through this. Inside of our Save my Marriage program, we have specific tracks and toolkits for you to go through on how to understand how to navigate, moving forward in your marriage, even when an affair has happened. And we want to offer you, as one of our podcast listeners, 25 percent off your first month inside of our Save my Marriage program, and you can access that offer by going to marriagehelpercom slash podcast P-O-D-C-A-S-T. You can see that in the show notes, whether you're watching on YouTube or listening to us on wherever you listen to podcasts. But we would love to have you join us and start doing the productive and proactive things to not just wallow in your hurt and your pity but begin to actually do the things to move forward in saving your marriage. So, again, you can access the 25 percent off your first month by going to marriagehelpercom slash podcast.
Speaker 1:We look forward to talking with you and hope you join us again on the next relationship radio episode.
Speaker 2:And remember there is always hope, Always.