In this compelling and deeply moving video, Gemma James shares her personal odyssey from marital turmoil to resilience with the invaluable support of Marriage Helper. Witness the transformative power of the Save My Marriage program even when separation and divorce looms as a possible end result. Journey with Gemma as she recounts her courageous process through crisis, healing and moving forward.
Gemma's story is a beacon of hope for anyone facing the daunting prospect of saving a marriage after a spouse wants out. Through candid reflection and heartfelt advice, Gemma illuminates the process through forgiveness, personal growth and a bright future.
Join us on this poignant exploration of love, loss, and redemption. Subscribe to Marriage Helper for more inspiring stories, expert advice, and practical resources to strengthen your marriage and reclaim your happiness.
Relationship Radio is hosted by CEO of Marriage Helper, Kimberly Beam Holmes, and founder of Marriage Helper, Dr. Joe Beam.
Regardless of your situation, what we teach will not only make your relationships better, but will also help you to become the best version of yourself along the way.
Relationship Radio is released every Wednesday and is an extension of Marriage Helper.
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. We love hearing from you!
For more resources about your specific situation, visit marriagehelper.com.
We have a new website for the It Starts With Attraction podcast!
Visit www.itstartswithattraction.com to check it out!
In this compelling and deeply moving video, Gemma James shares her personal odyssey from marital turmoil to resilience with the invaluable support of Marriage Helper. Witness the transformative power of the Save My Marriage program even when separation and divorce looms as a possible end result. Journey with Gemma as she recounts her courageous process through crisis, healing and moving forward.
Gemma's story is a beacon of hope for anyone facing the daunting prospect of saving a marriage after a spouse wants out. Through candid reflection and heartfelt advice, Gemma illuminates the process through forgiveness, personal growth and a bright future.
Join us on this poignant exploration of love, loss, and redemption. Subscribe to Marriage Helper for more inspiring stories, expert advice, and practical resources to strengthen your marriage and reclaim your happiness.
Relationship Radio is hosted by CEO of Marriage Helper, Kimberly Beam Holmes, and founder of Marriage Helper, Dr. Joe Beam.
Regardless of your situation, what we teach will not only make your relationships better, but will also help you to become the best version of yourself along the way.
Relationship Radio is released every Wednesday and is an extension of Marriage Helper.
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. We love hearing from you!
For more resources about your specific situation, visit marriagehelper.com.
We have a new website for the It Starts With Attraction podcast!
Visit www.itstartswithattraction.com to check it out!
So, yeah, at some point in my journey I lost, I got laid off, and before it would have been chaos. But in this case I was like, right, this is the next thing that's thrown at me. And you know, I believe in God and I believe that everything happens for a reason. And I walked out of that thinking what's next and I think that's one of the things of going through this in my marriage course was like I have to stop. I have to stop because I'm going to destroy these children unless I, because there was no one else being the strong one. So I was like I have to get better.
Speaker 2:You were literally alone.
Speaker 1:I have to get better, I have to calm down, I have to sort myself out for the sake of these children. The thing I always held onto was that beauty would come from the ashes, which is a verse from the Bible, and I had that written on my mirror and I think now the beauty I thought it was going to be, this beautiful reconciled marriage and the kids were going to have their dad back and it was going to be beautiful. But I'm realizing that in my specific story, the beauty was within. In my specific story, the beauty was within Gemma.
Speaker 2:this is probably the relationship radio episode I am most excited to have a conversation about, because it's with you. It's with you, gemma. For those who don't know, you are now the COO at Marriage Helper. You've been on the team for since 2020, officially beginning like beginning January 2020. And not only are you an amazing member of the Marriage Helper team, a personal friend, but you have had an amazing story that you've experienced. So how did you originally find Marriage Helper? Because you didn't start as a team member. You started as a client several years before.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, kimberly. I am very privileged to be working here at Marriage Helper. And, yeah, thank you for those kind words. So, yeah, I found Marriage Helper originally as a client back in 2017 when my spouse came home one day and said he didn't want to be married to me anymore and was done, and I was blindsided, like I had no idea it was coming.
Speaker 1:I thought we were happily married, we had two small children at the time and thought we were doing fine. We had problems like any other couple, but we were doing fine in my mind. And then I really didn't know what to do. So I searched everywhere online for some help, searching things like how can I save my marriage when my spouse wants out and came across Marriage Helper and specifically the Save my Marriage program, and so I signed up straight away. It just seemed to be what I needed, because I felt like I wanted to try and save my marriage and try and understand what was going on, like why on earth he was saying all these crazy things and just trying to find some resources. So, yeah, that's how I discovered this amazing organization all those years back, all those years back.
Speaker 2:So you got the Save my Marriage program. And then what happened?
Speaker 1:So, right before the Save my Marriage program, I mean I was going crazy trying to understand, trying to get what was going on, and so I was doing all the things that we say in the Save my Marriage program not to do so begging um, pleading, trying to uh, guilt, trip him into explaining why he didn't love me anymore and didn't want to be with me. Um, and it was getting worse and worse and worse, um, to the point where I wasn't eating or sleeping or really functioning very well in life. Um, then, when I started doing the Save my Marriage program, the principles that we teach in that program, um, about how you can push and pull push your spouse away and pull your spouse back to you changed everything, like it really changed how I was communicating with him and understood that things needed to calm down. You know, he was never going to want to come back to somebody who is screaming in his face, um, or crying or begging Um. And so I just started to implement those principles and and things with him were better. I mean, I'm not saying we were anywhere close to understanding what was happening, but things started to get better. And so I felt like, man, this program really program really works.
Speaker 1:Um, I started doing some coaching with a marriage helper coach, which really helped just dig into what the specifics of my individual situation and what I could do, um and so like, one of the things I was doing loads of was manipulating him into wanting to come back by organizing family parties and then inviting him to come. And he was. I mean, he was out the home, at this house, separated, and didn't want to be there. And the coach just really helped me understand what do you hope to achieve by that? I mean he says he wants out. You know, you really think he's going to come back from you inviting him to a party. And so just enable the coach is enabling me to see. You know, give him some space If that's what he wants, listen to what he's saying and kind of don't push, don't push him by drawing him in, um, and so that started to change Um, and to the point where, um, the coach helped me ask him to come to the Marriage Helper Turnaround Workshop and he did not want to come and was very, very reluctant to come.
Speaker 1:But over a period of four weeks of me being very strategic in the way that I asked him many, many times, trying to work out what he wanted, and managed to get him there and that really, for me, was going to be my kind of turnaround point. That was the aim. The three-day workshop was going to be the my kind of turnaround point. That was the aim. The three-day workshop was going to be the turnaround point. And so he came and at the workshop I met you and Dr Joe and Alice and the gang and man. That was such a great weekend. I mean, it was crazy because I hadn't, at the time when we came, I hadn't actually spoken to, uh, my husband at the time for about six months other than interactions about the kids. And so suddenly we were here in Tennessee for three full days together, like um, and it was just an amazing time together and we learned. I learned loads about myself personally um and about the relationship.
Speaker 1:So how did you figure out what he wanted? Well, how did I get him to go? He really needed me to write a reference for a job for him and needed to speak to somebody at the job to say that he was who he said he was. And at that point he, you know, we were separated, and so it was um. What I said is, if you want me to give you a review as your wife, then you have to act like my husband and come to this workshop with me. And, uh, he really wanted the job. So, although I think he said this is a very controlling thing that you're doing which it was, but for me it was I was willing to to give up um, being the kind of wife that went along with everything to get him at this workshop because I realized how important it was and this wasn't the only thing going on in your life at the time there was I'm trying to remember the the timeline of your story.
Speaker 2:I know there was a job loss yes, oh yes.
Speaker 1:So we right after I'd done the workshop and in our story the workshop wasn't a turnaround on the three days although plenty of our clients we see that three-day workshop by the end of it um, they're kind of back together. And in fact I was so annoyed because in our breakout group there was another couple and my husband and their husband had the same name even, and their marriage was like saved in the weekend and mine wasn't, and I was so like I can't believe it, so it's supposed to be my miracle, but anyway. So when I got back we were still separated for a year afterwards and about six months into that I got laid off and so at that point I was, you know, a single mom of two kids, really, with a mortgage, full time job and now separated and now a job loss, living in New York City. So it was a crazy situation, crazy situation, but really I felt like through that situation, like I could really face anything. I mean, part of what I learned from Marriage Helper was building your emotional resilience, because a marriage crisis takes it out of you. It takes everything out of you, takes everything that you could imagine out of you. It takes everything out of you. It takes everything that you could imagine out of you, but I learned that the way you build emotional resilience is you work on yourself. So you work on the things in your life that build you up and bring you joy, and you do more and more of those things until you are the best version of yourself.
Speaker 1:And I'd done that continuously from the moment I joined the Save my Marriage program, and so things like when my husband left, I didn't know I couldn't drive in New York City. I'd learned to drive in England and I'd never got a car, and so I really felt like I'm stuck here in this home with two little kids and we're just, you know, powerless, and so I was just waiting for him to come home so that everything would be better. And then a realization of no, I can do something about this. I can have driving lessons, I can get a car and I can learn to do crazy parallel parking in New York City, and I will take these children to the museum and we will have a good time. And I'm not saying it was always easy will take these children to the museum and we will have a good time. And I'm not saying it was always easy, but it gave me a feeling of power in this powerless, out of control situation and that, consistently, is what I did.
Speaker 1:So by the time we did the workshop and he came back, it was before he came back. It was just this routine I would get in of anything that life threw at me. I knew I could deal with because I had great friends, I had a church that supported me, I had mechanisms and things in my life that gave me resilience. So, yeah, at some point in my journey I lost, I got laid off and before it would have been chaos, but in this case I was like right, this is the next thing that's thrown at me. And you know, I believe in God and I believe that everything happens for a reason. And I walked out of that thinking what's next? What's next for me? There must be something that is in this, because things have been chaotic, like every part of my life has been taken away from me and now the latest thing is my job. So what's next? Um, and actually what's next was marriage helper little, did you know?
Speaker 1:little did I know uh emailing in on LinkedIn to Kimberly saying please let me come work for you. And now I was really desperate, really, please let me come work for you, because I don't have a job yeah, you didn't come across that way though. No, I don't. I well, I think the first one you ignored and then it was the second one. I have no idea what we.
Speaker 2:I mean, we were still pretty small back then. Yeah, all things considered, yeah, all things considered, where am I going to put a person from New York city? What could she possibly do? Well, the answer turned out to be literally almost everything. Probably the only role you haven't done is like breakout leader coach. Yeah, you're marketing. I haven't done breakout leader coach.
Speaker 2:Developed our. Anyway, we won't get into we'll. We'll get into all of that, probably later. So tell me more about how you felt when you left the workshop and you signed the paper. You did the reference like you said you would, and he didn't come back no, he was so adamant at that point that the marriage was still over.
Speaker 1:That, um, like I said, I was so sure I was gonna get this miraculous turnaround because, like you said, I'd done everything right, I'd followed the program completely, done all the smart contact and I really focused on my pies and and I was, I was like rocking my pies, I looked hot, I had I'd done all my hair and um and all the things I'd kind of struggled with when we were married, like I would get absorbed in him and not have my own friends, and he hated that, that and I really worked on that. And then even the spiritual side I had such a great, amazing church and was singing worship in the band and just feeling like I'm really on top of my game in terms of attractiveness, but he just would not see it or could not see it, and it drove me crazy really. When I got back from the workshop, I just went into a depression of thinking I don't know if this is going to work, I don't know if I'm really in the right program or like if he's ever going to come back, but the only thing I knew what to do, which is just keep doing the next right thing. And the next right thing was continuing to focus on myself, because, even if he didn't come back, like I wasn't going to go back to the old way of being absorbed by anyone, like I was my own person now. I was like strong um, independent um, and so that was just like well, I'll keep doing this.
Speaker 1:Then, because this feels right and I feel good about it, and started to have a better relationship with him, like he would um, come around and like, after we dropped the kids off, hang around a bit, but there was never any indication that he was going to come home at all, um, for a good 12 months, until there was, and that happened quite quickly. He came back one day and said you know what I think, let's give it another go. And talking about celebration, I mean it was like every possible hope or dream I'd ever had was fulfilled in that one conversation and for anyone who knows me, I don't do anything by halves so probably within 24 hours our whole marriage was back together you had figured it I'd figured the whole thing out and how it was all going to work.
Speaker 1:Um, now what I didn't do and I would recommend this to anybody who is at this point is go back to our marriage helper coach and work out really how to reconcile properly. And we now, at that point, we didn't really have many reconciliation resources, but now we have loads, and especially for our workshop grads, it's like all sorts of resources that you have for helping you through this process. But anyway, I decided to do it alone because he said he wanted to come back and that's all I was waiting for, so the rest would work out. And so he came back for um, I think we were together again for another year, but it was tough. The first three months were reasonable and then it got really hard, and mostly because we hadn't really sorted out anything. And so now we have this five-step reconciliation model and it's not just what the person the reluctant spouse wants in order to make the marriage work, but it's also what I needed to make the right something. And I didn't say that. I didn't say what I needed in order to rebuild trust and and have a sense that he wasn't going to walk out again. So we didn't do any of that and we didn't really sort out any of our issues. And so he decided to leave again, fortunately, which was about two and a half years ago, maybe three years ago.
Speaker 1:That's when that all kicked off and it was harder than the first time, was it? Yeah, and I think it was harder because I'd really like taken him back into my heart and I'd I'd let my guard down again and I'd I hadn't stopped doing all the pies that we talk about, all the physical, intellectual, emotional, spiritual development. So I still was strong from that side of things. But I was so hopeful like I and especially working at marriage helper at that time, I was working in marketing at the time and especially working at Marriage Helper at that time, I was working in marketing at the time Like I wanted to be the poster child for Marriage Helper.
Speaker 1:Like I wanted to do all the interviews and like tell everybody don't worry if you follow this program. Like it really, really worked. And in fact I did, I was, I was telling everybody and then I felt like sheepish, like I had to go back and say it didn't work for me, unfortunately. Um, and so we processed with the divorce and got the legal papers done and that's where I am um, separated, completely divorced, moved on um and actually moved away from him. And now I'm in the move-on phase, which is quite, you know, and I think for a lot of people listening they're like oh, we don't really talk about this at marriage helper, do we like what happens if it?
Speaker 2:doesn't work. I know and I I know I bet there's some people too that are like you moved away, what? What about the kids? And I even encouraged you, like us working together, and I was looking at the whole circumstance of your life and seeing how little support you had in your current situation and you were going to break, like I knew you were going to break and I know there was other people in your life encouraging you too. But I was like you. You need to go be around support. Yeah, shot myself in the foot because you ended up leaving the country, but you're still COO now, so I guess it all worked out Um but it, and so I think that's the other thing of like.
Speaker 2:Every situation is different and so, yes, like, generally, you know, even after divorce, we recommend, like you got to think about the kids, you got to think of the co-parenting, but you've done that, even though y'all are separated, like you know, not even living in the same state. I feel like you've worked it out for the good of the kids. How have you handled the like through all of it? What was that like with the kids? How yeah, how were you there for like through all of it? What was that like with the kids? How yeah, how were you there for them in their processing?
Speaker 1:Cause they were young, they've yeah, they were really young when, when it all, when when he first left, I think the kids were two and six months or maybe like one and two and a half, something like that, so they weren't really young. Um, and I I definitely carry a lot of guilt from how I handled it initially because I was definitely in all the screaming and begging that was a lot of that was in front of the kids and I remember even my uh two and a half year old at the time getting very upset, because I was very upset and I just couldn't I just couldn't control my emotion to not be like that in front of them. Um, and I think that's one of the the things of of going through this in my marriage course was like I have to stop. I have to stop because I'm going to destroy these children unless I because there was no one else being the strong one. So I was like I have to get better yeah, you were literally alone it.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I have to get better, I have to calm down, I have to sort myself out for the sake of these children. And then and then, when we were in the period of being separated, like I felt like I was a great mom to them, like I I really was there them, able to be there for them, because I wasn't overly focused by what my spouse was doing at the time. And then when he came back, it was really hard for the kids because by then they were older and they kind of got used to him being around. And then when we decided we were separating, it was really hard for all of us, including him. It was really hard, and I'm not really going into all all of us, including him. It was really hard.
Speaker 1:Um, and I'm not really going into all the details of of why there's a lot of, you know, people are like you just left. You know it doesn't seem to none of it seems to make any sense, but there was a lot of things that were. It became clear that the marriage wasn't going to work. Um, but yeah, when, when I made the decision to move back to England, it was really like, like you said, I can't keep going like this, like I'm a really strong person and I've done. I've done it for the kids, but I need support. I need them. I can't thank them enough.
Speaker 1:Took me in back into my home, childhood home in England and took took us in and initially it was just going to be a few months um just to be enveloped by them, and you graciously allowed me to um keep connecting with marriage helper during that time and keep working for marriage.
Speaker 2:I'm just going for three months, just going for three months. That was the original plan, even though you sold everything well, I didn't stand up.
Speaker 1:I put everything in storage. That was it. I put everything in storage. Well, actually, no, I gave a lot away. Um, because we had yeah, we had a lot of stuff, but I gave a lot away and we separated everything and then I put what I had left in storage in new york and then went back for a few months.
Speaker 1:But I knew, I mean, I would say, within a few days of being back in England, I'm like I need to stay here for a while to just be close to my brother and sister and old friends. And I found like there was so many things that came together on that. I found an amazing church and a group of women, amazing women around me, and then a new home, found a new home for us, and I was able to go through that process of really getting the kids settled into a new way of life. And I would say the other side of what happened is I was able to develop quite a good working co-parenting relationship with my ex, which, again, I completely put down to the teaching of marriage helper, because I think back, if I hadn't have done this and we'd have ended up where we are now, I think I mean, I, I was in so much pain and had so much emotion in me I don't think I would have been able to have a working relationship with him. You know, you hear all these parents who just can't be in the same room with each other, but we didn't have that.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I did actually it was really helpful in my journey is I went and back and did our solo workshop right around the time, right before we separated for the second time, and it really helped me to just process all my emotions and and everything and really helped me to understand that I needed to forgive him. And I know I'd done that same section in the when I've done the couples workshop, but when I did it in the solo workshop, I remember we started to do the forgiveness section and I had this like anger, like I felt it here and in my jaw to the point where, like it hurt, like physical pain in my body, and then we did the section on forgiveness, um, and I remember just feeling like I have to forgive him. I have to and he does not deserve it, like and and and he's not asking for forgiveness, but I have to forgive him, not for him for me. I have to let go of this pain. I have to release it so that I can be the best version of myself, like otherwise I'm going to be carrying this with me and and it's bringing me down and like.
Speaker 1:Not only that, but I was like getting ear ear infections and throat infections like I. Like my immunity was compromised because of this.
Speaker 1:So I went through the steps that we go through in the workshop to forgive, and I felt this release almost instantaneously, and sometimes I say it's like a rolling forgiveness for him, because even when we co-parent, like, we don't always agree on everything, but I'm so determined that I'm not going to hold things against him and, and you know, I think he feels the same way. So, actually, for the kids, we work really well together and so either I bring the kids to him or he comes and visits the kids. Um, they speak on the phone all the time and and we do whatever we can for the sake of the kids and I will like. One of the things that I said from right from starting the Save my Marriage program is I am not going to speak badly about him in front of the children ever again, because they're half of him, like when physically they are half of him. And if I'm talking negatively about him, then how does that reflect on who they are as individuals? Um, but also I really want them to have a good relationship with their father, like that's really really important for them as they grow up.
Speaker 1:And so you know me speaking badly. How is that going to help anything, and so I'll specifically, I mean I'll back my tongue with anything. And they, you know, as children, don't know the full story of everything that happened, but they know, 100% sure, that both their parents love them 100% and that both of us will do anything for them. And one of the things I always say to my daughter and I say you're so beautiful, and you know why she says yes, mom, because I'm half of you and half of dad. I'm like, exactly, that's it, you're half of each of. I'm like, exactly that's it, you're half of each of us and that's why you're so beautiful. And I say that to her all the time.
Speaker 2:Are you glad that you tried to fight for your?
Speaker 1:marriage A hundred percent. I don't think I could live with myself and with the children without knowing that I did everything within my strength, and from the moment I found out to the moment I gave up was six years around, and that was a tough six years. I mean six years at my age it's a big portion of my life was spent wishing and hoping and working for this marriage to be restored. Um, so I'm really really glad that that I did everything within my power to save it A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:You did, you really did, I did, you did and I, like you, can confidently say it. I can confidently say it as someone who walked through part of that with you and I think there's a freedom in that. You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is Um, and actually in the part of when I was getting to the point where I'm like, okay, I'm going to sign these divorce papers for the final time and it is over for me, Like this is the end of the six year journey, I'm signing and I'm letting go, and I remember um going back to the Save my Marriage program in the course, the very final of the 12 videos is when it's time to move on. And I watched that video again because I'm like I just want to check I'm doing it right, Like I work at this organization and I want to make sure.
Speaker 2:You literally could have called Jo, but instead you just decided to go log on to the course.
Speaker 1:Well, the resource is available for you.
Speaker 1:When you're a member, you get them forever.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 1:So then I was looking, I went back through and thought and listened to him and the way that Dr Joe teaches is, you know, using the pies again and saying, at the point when it is impacting you physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually negatively, then and obviously that's a hard one because for some people they're like well, it is now, and I'm a month in, right, okay, you've got to give it, you've got to do the full program, give it your best shot.
Speaker 1:But at the point when you're years into it and and some of our members are like long-term standards, you know three, five, even eight years, you know, um, and you're still at that point where it's starting to have an emotional or intellectual, spiritual impact on you, then it might be time to move on. But it's really speaking with other people in your life and being like is it, you know, am I, am I ready for it? And then making the choice. And for me the choice was signing those papers and saying that's it, I'm done and I'm. I do not believe that this will ever reconcile. I'm signing it and I'm moving on with my life. And then what does moving on look like?
Speaker 2:before you get to that, what was the feeling you had?
Speaker 1:signing the papers. Yeah, it was sadness, to be honest, real sadness, because it was like the end of the dream and the dream, the fairy tale dream that I had in my mind of what marriage should be like. Um, but you weren't mad.
Speaker 2:Oh no, you weren't fearful, you weren't anxious.
Speaker 1:No, like you felt at peace, oh, massively, yeah. And I knew I a hundred percent, knew I was going to be okay, a hundred percent. And that emotional resilience that started off, you know, six years earlier with working on myself, um, carried me through, you know, to the point now where I won't compromise. I won't compromise on not seeing my friends and not having a friendship group and not being involved in a church and having a small group of people who pray with me, and I won't compromise with not um reading books for myself and developing myself and pushing myself into new, new roles at work that maybe I feel uncomfortable. I'm not going to compromise, I'm not going to go back to the old me I'm. I'm going to push on and continue to develop myself, um, and so in that signing those divorce papers, I knew I'd be okay, like there wasn't anything that life could throw at me that will make it so.
Speaker 1:I'm not okay because I've been through everything. Well, don't say please, don't say that because I've been through everything. Well, don't say please, don't say that. I've been through a lot. I've been through a lot and and I'm okay.
Speaker 1:And not only okay, but filled with joy and filled with anticipation of what my life is, what's going to happen in my life, and when I look at my ex, I don't, I don't long for him, I don't pine, I don't wish anything was different. I see him for who he is and and I'm so grateful that he gave me my two children. And I don't know why our marriage wasn't one of the ones that were saved, because I've seen thousands that have been saved doing this job. I don't know why mine wasn't one, but, um, I see the situation for what it is. It was, it was what it was for the time it was, and now it's not. You know, that's not who I am anymore. I'm not his wife anymore. I'm my own person, a single mom of two beautiful children, doing a job that I love how did you know it was time to move on?
Speaker 1:so, yeah, it was. I mean kind of the paperwork came. So either I signed oh, I didn't sign it, but I had peace. I had peace that, um, things, you know, things wouldn't wouldn't be back, and I also knew in my heart I would not take him back again for the third time. I was not willing to go through it for the third time around. And it had been long enough, um, you know, and nothing had changed on his side, and also he didn't want to be married to me anymore, still you, almost consistently for a long time. And so, um, yeah, that was it. It was time, it was time to move into a new phase of my life.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking of the people watching who are either at the very beginning, like they're weeks or a couple of months into this journey, and they're listening to this thinking six years into this journey. And they're listening to this thinking six years. You have got to be kidding me. What would you say to those?
Speaker 1:people. Well, six years is just a series of one days, many, many times over. And so I remember, right at the beginning, when I had some had somebody saying that it would take one year, potentially one year, and I was like one year, I can't do one year, I can't even do one day. So, um, if you're right at the beginning, just take it day by day. I mean, that's part of what we cover in the um smart contact program, but just take it one day at a time and just do a series of one day. Because right at the beginning, when it, when you really are in the depths of your crisis, sometimes it's even as much as taking one minute at a time just to get through. And and I remember that vividly um, and you don't know, you don't know, every individual is different. I mean we've seen people save their marriage instantly, you know, at the workshop or even before, and we've seen people that it's taken a while longer. I mean we say anecdotally in the office an average is a year. So if you're in those early phases and you're like I'm not going to last a year, one day at a time, and now for those people who are maybe three, four, five, six years on. It's up to you. It's completely up to you, at the time when you feel it's right to move on. And if you want to talk to a coach about that, sometimes that's helpful to get some outside information, um, but if you feel like you want to wait around for five, ten, fifteen, twenty years, you know, go for it.
Speaker 1:I remember I remember we interviewed Scott on our information. He was like when my marriage fell apart, I knew I wouldn't get remarried. I was this was it and I was going to move on with my life. But moving on with my life meant the door was always open if she decided to come back. You know, I think that's amazing. That is amazing that he was willing to kind of do that with me. I just, um, I felt like, you know, I didn't want to do that. I felt like I'm young, you know I'm was excited about a new relationship and what that could look like, and felt like, you know, I'd given this my all and and was willing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say you are the poster child for marriage helper, your marketing dream. Years ago, for sure, you did everything. I mean perfectly no, not at first at least, but you have everything like what is that bird in the Harry Potter movie that comes out of the ashes, right Like? You are the one who stop laughing. I'm like I don't watch Harry Potter. I've got no idea. How can you not know Harry Potter Phoenix rising from the ashes, like a Phoenix rising from the ashes? No, but I mean seriously. You like even just what you were saying. If you do it one day at a time, you have more joy now than you've ever had. You aren't going to uh, what was the word you use? Compromise? You're not, and I don't even think that was because of your ex like holding you back in many ways. This is you deciding for yourself, like there's a better future for me and I'm going to take hold of it and pursue it and I'm not going to let my life situations hold me back. A hundred percent. That's you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said Phoenix from the ashes, but I, the thing I always held onto was that beauty would come from the ashes, which is a verse from the Bible, and I had that written on my mirror and I think now the beauty I thought it was going to be this beautiful reconciled marriage and the kids were going to have their dad back and it was going to be beautiful. But I'm realizing that in my specific story, the beauty was within. You know, it came out to enable me to live a life that I wouldn't have even thought possible before. You know the way I feel about myself and the way I'm able to really connect with other people who are going through a crisis, because I've been there, I know the pain and I feel it, feel it in other people and I have this incredibly big heart for people going through difficult times I don't, I didn't have before. I feel like I was very judgmental and I felt like if you're, if you were, divorced, well, it's your fault. You know you obviously did something wrong and now I'm in it as a divorcee and feeling like man. Every situation is so different and who's anyone to judge what's happening in your situation? You know, who am I to judge anyone's situation. All I'm there to do is love and support the people around me as much as much as I can, and I think I can only do that because of my experiences.
Speaker 1:There is always hope. One of the things I was thinking is um, somebody once asked me like man, you work at an organization that saves marriages and yet you're divorced. Isn't that like a bit hypocritical? Like how on, how can you be motivated to do that? Well, I could have done that, but no, who are you to say? Who are you to say? Don't be so judgmental. No, one of the things.
Speaker 1:One of the reasons why I am so passionate to do this role and why I'm so excited to be in a place of leadership at Marriage Helper is because I truly believe there is always hope and no situation is hopeless.
Speaker 1:There is always hope and no situation is hopeless, and I truly believe that most marriages I mean we're at 70% of marriages saved from divorce right now, but most marriages can be saved using our principles. If anything works, this program works 100%, hand on heart, and the reason I can say that is because I've spoken individually to countless couples who have been in the craziest circumstances. I mean so multiple affairs, cultural differences, long distance issues, like crazy situations that have been saved because of going through our program, and so I really believe in it, like I believe if you, if you're married, if you're married right now and your marriage is in crisis, you have to give it your all, like, give it the best shot that you can, do, the best thing that you can, and and then, if at the point that it isn't, then move on with peace. Move on with peace and and never neglect yourself. You know, focus on being the best version of yourself, because it will carry you through anything in life what are you most excited for for your future?
Speaker 2:and then, what are you most excited for for the future of marriage helper um, for my future.
Speaker 1:I'm just I'm excited for what the future holds, you know, with with all that that holds, new relationship, um, a new potential, um home life for the children um, you know, quite precautionary in that because of everything that we've been through and for what the kids have been through, but I'm excited of what the future will hold in that um and for how that will develop. For sure I'm really excited about that. And then for Marriage Helper. Oh, there is so much that I'm excited about. We really have the best team of any organization in the world. I mean really phenomenally talented people that work here. And we've seen significant growth over the last six to twelve months and growth in terms of the number of marriages saved, um that of people who've come through our organization. And we're seeing growth, both here in the US but internationally as well, of people who've come through our organization. And we're seeing growth, both here in the US but internationally as well, of people who are hearing of us and coming through our programs. And we're really now running twice as many workshops as we were, you know, 18 months ago, and that's just because of the number of people that want to come through our program. I'm really excited about our Save my Marriage program and how that has been developing and growing and we're seeing more and more people accessing all of our resources and taking those first steps. You know, when the crisis hits, to do the best things they can. And I'm really excited about our coaching. You know we've got coaches that support our clients individually as they go through the program and this coaching really works. Like our coaches are amazing, phenomenally people and the stories they tell us of of the clients that they've helped is just super exciting.
Speaker 1:Um, and I'm mostly excited about the impact just the impact that this can have um on society, on what's happening. Know, we're in a world now where marriage can almost be thrown away when things get tough, and I know how tough things can get. So I'm not saying that flippantly, but I really believe that marriage and family is the source of stability for children and it and it. If, if at all possible, you can make it work, then you should try, because even though children are resilient and my kids are very resilient they've been really impacted from the separation and so if, if I can help anyone avoid that, then I will do it at all costs. So, yeah, I'm hopeful for the impact the impact in society, but also the impact for the individual. Each individual person that comes to us and their marriage is saved is like a celebration. I mean you should hear some of the celebration stories that we talk about in as a team meeting, where we get really excited for people that we've seen come through and we really celebrate it.
Speaker 2:I think this is the best relationship radio episode I have ever done. I'm not just saying it either. I love this so much. I agree with all of those things and and more. We expect greatness for our clients and for the future. We really do we really do.
Speaker 1:And, um, I suppose I'm just thinking, as we're talking here, like there might be some people who are listening to this, who who, like you say, maybe feel like they've lost a bit of hope after hearing my story, because they're thinking maybe I'm like her and I should just give up now. And I suppose I just want to say to you if you're in that situation, is there one last effort you can give it? And so one of the principles that I used is never make a decision in heightened emotion and give it an extra 30 days after I've got upset about it. And then, after that 30 days, see how do I feel now. No, I still feel upset. Okay, it's not time, until the point where I'm like actually, I feel okay, I feel peaceful, I feel good about this situation, I'm like okay, now it's time. So use that as a barometer, but also talk to one of our coaches. They can help you.
Speaker 2:So many great options, where would you recommend people start?
Speaker 1:If you're really brand new to Marriage Helper and you're not really sure what this is all about, then join our Save my Marriage program. It's on our website what this is all about. Then join our Save my Marriage program. It's on our website. It is a monthly subscription and as part of that you get all of our Save my Marriage resources. Plus, we have toolkits for every individual situation. Whether you've had an affair, there's something for you, or your spouse was the one that had an affair, or there was no affair. If there's a toolkit all about hate, like I feel like my spouse hates me, what should I do? And then you can kind of unpack that situation. So there's just loads of resources the smart contact toolkit which we talked about, and then resources about increasing your attractiveness.
Speaker 1:So emotional, spiritual, intellectual attraction, um, the your best self course we called is, is part of that program as well.
Speaker 1:So you all those resources, um, plus a um weekly support call, in fact, loads of weekly support calls at all different times, um, including one time that just fits Europe and Australia in the middle of the night over here in the US. And then um a community group, so a whole group, thousands of people who are in the same place trying to save their marriage. And so if that's, if you're brand new to marriage, proper start there, like that's the best place. You'll get support, you'll get information. If you're at the point where, like, actually I want my marriage to be turned around, then look into our couples turnaround workshop. That is the single best thing that you could do right now to save your marriage. And if you think, well, that's all very well and good, but I could never get my spouse to go, then our solo program is right, right for you. It's very similar information from our couples program, but it's all designed around you and that's a three-day intensive program.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll have the links, of course, to all those in the show notes. Gemma, thank you so much for sharing your story, for being the person that you are for now, being a marriage helper and helping to guide and lead the team into the next phases of growth and impact, and marriage is saved. You are, you are a gem. Uh. You're definitely beauty from the ashes, so honored to work alongside you. Oh well.
Speaker 1:thank you, kimberly. I feel like we need to hug at this moment across the table, but no, thank you for allowing me to tell my story. I feel like a bit apprehensive, kind of going into it and kind of delving back into the past, but I think it's important. It's important for people who maybe can identify with me Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It will help thousands of people, I'm sure of it.