Relationship Radio: Marriage, Sex, Limerence & Avoiding Divorce
Relationship Radio: Marriage, Sex, Limerence & Avoiding Divorce
Dr. Joe Beam Answers Your Relationship Questions
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In this episode, Dr. Joe Beam answers questions listeners have submitted to the show.
We cover:
- The Valley
- Limerence
-Commitment
- & Much more
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Welcome to 2025. I'll tell you what. I'm Dr Joe Beam, with Marriage Helper MH International, if you want to be technically correct. And I never thought I would live long enough to see 2025.
Speaker 1:From my boyhood back in the, you know, late 1800s, this is a long way advanced, and have I seen the world change in my lifetime? Well, obviously I wasn't born in the late 1800s. I was actually born at the end of the 1940s 1949 to be exact, if you wish to know and in the time that I have lived from then until now, I have seen changes that people my age are still remarking about. How did they do that? How has that occurred? I mean, from the time that we went to the moon back in 1969, actually Alice and I had just married and we're on a honeymoon and watched that moon landing from there, and that's a big transition all the way to the ICBMs that could destroy the whole world, to technology that's amazing, so that you might be listening to this in Sri Lanka, and here I am talking about this in Nashville, tennessee and that has been amazing technologically speaking, but not necessarily altogether good, because with the increase of communication with people around the world, where anybody can talk to anybody anytime and do it to some degree with anonymity, then some evil has arisen in that as well. But let's not talk about that today. What we want to do today is this I want to answer some of those common questions that we get here at Image International Airage Helper, if you prefer and as I go through these, let me point out that some of the changes we have seen, you see, when I was a boy back in the 1950s and yes, I know you can't relate to that, but when I was a boy back in the 1950s, when people gave their word, they pretty much kept it.
Speaker 1:Now there were people that you couldn't trust, people who would lie, people who would con you if they could. Those people existed, but not like it is today, where that you don't know who will keep his or her word and who won't, no matter how good they seem to be, no matter how wonderful they are otherwise in their lives, because of the fact that we live in a culture now where giving a word and commitment they just rarely exist. And commitment, they just rarely exist. And so in my boyhood people would do a million-dollar contract over the hood of a pickup truck and just shake hands and not sign any papers and each knew the other would do what he or she would say they would do. And now we have people committing to be married until death. Do us part, which some now have changed until as long as we both shall love, which is a really ridiculous thing that we can talk about sometime if you wish. And now we have people in relationship problems all over the world, and it's facilitated to some degree by the technology, but a lot of it has to do with the cultural change where people just don't do what they say they're going to do. Commitment doesn't mean anything other than as long as I feel good about this, I'll do it. And when I stop feeling good about this, rather than figuring out how to fix it, how to make it better, I think I'll just go try something else. And that's the kind of thing we deal with every day.
Speaker 1:So let me give you some of the questions. I'm going to be reading them here. I'm actually going to try to read them without my glasses, so this might be a lot of fun. Here's the first one. I'm feeling taken advantage of at this point. It's been seven months of in-home separation, sleeping in different beds and her not wearing her ring. I'm good enough to pay the bills and fund her shopping trips, but I'm not good enough to be her husband. We get along fine, just no love or touch. But I'm feeling used. How do you suggest handling this situation? Stay on this path or address the feelings?
Speaker 1:If you've listened to many of the things that we have done online and YouTube and many other places, you may be familiar with what we call the valley. The valley is when a person is between decisions. So let's suppose the spouse is the this is the hill range on one side of the valley and whatever the other attraction is. The other attraction could be another person, it could be a lifestyle somebody's pursuing, it could be a dream or a fantasy they're trying to fulfill, but in between means they haven't totally committed to this other thing or this other person yet and have not totally broken all contact with the spouse. We call that the valley, and in the valley a person is to some degree indecisive and people say well, what is your opinion, dr Beam, about whether people should do when their spouse is in the valley? Should they just end it? Should they tolerate it? Now, remember, when I give you a suggestion, that you have to make the final decision. I cannot make your final decision for you, and no one else should make your final decision for you but you, because you live with the consequences of that decision. We don't. So think it through very, very carefully.
Speaker 1:Now, in this situation, you're describing a person who appears to be living in the valley, in the sense that she, the wife, has not totally broken contact with her husband. She's sleeping in the same house, just not in the same bed, and she's living off his money to some degree at least, at least that's what he indicates here and we don't know what this other thing is over here. Now, typically it's either something somebody's being drawn to If it's the valley, as a matter of fact, it has to be it's something that somebody is drawn to. If they're just fleeing this situation, it's not a valley, they're just going away. So the valley means there's something else, some other person, some situation that they're drawn to, rather than the spouse. So in this situation, based on what he has said, I don't know if it's somebody that's just fleeing him but not going so far right now because he's made it comfortable for her to be there or if indeed there is something else.
Speaker 1:Now, according to what he says. He doesn't think there's something else. Now, if that's the case, if that's the case, then in the valley we say, as long as they are still making at least some movement toward you, we'd recommend that you stay in the valley for a while until they can make up their mind. But if they're totally moving toward the other hillside over here in other words, another person, another thing and moving further and further away from you, we'd say there's no use, at least as far as I can see, in staying in the valley. That's when you can go ahead and make some decisions about ending things, bringing things to a head, et cetera.
Speaker 1:And if he's right, and she's just moving away, but not so far yet, because she likes being able to use his money to shop and it's comfortable to have a place to live, then the question becomes if she's not moving further and further and further away because he says they're getting along well, then what are you going to do? Well, if you want to bring it to a head, understand that this is the potential downside. The potential downside is that she will move further and faster away because now you have upset what she's doing, she's in a comfortable situation, she can do pretty much what she wants to do right now and you still provide for her and take care of her, which means she doesn't have to make a decision. But if you bring it to a head, then she might feel compelled that now she does have to make a decision. And if she does that then she's probably going to move further and further away from you. You say, wait a minute, might she not move back toward me? Yes, that's possible. But the fact that she's already been moving away from you and feels comfortable about that indicates the likelihood that if you bring this to a head, she's going to go further from you rather than back towards you. But you're right, she might come back toward you. And so if you're happy with things like they are and just going to live like this for the next month, year, decade, then leave it alone and just leave it like it is.
Speaker 1:But if you've had it like you say here, you feel you're being taken advantage of. You feel like that you can't live like this. This is not a comfortable thing for you. And you're saying I want to do something. What do I do? And then the thing you say here is you don't talk about cutting it off. You don't talk about cutting off her money. You don't talk about getting a divorce attorney and getting her out of the house. What you talk about is addressing the feelings.
Speaker 1:Now, after having given all that background, which is probably a lot more than you wanted to know, addressing the feelings makes sense because I don't think she's going to move back towards you, at least it doesn't appear. Doesn't appear that she's moving back towards you. Therefore, doing something makes sense, and if it's addressing the feelings, then that makes even more sense, because now you're not threatening with the attorney, you're not cutting off money, you're not trying to the attorney, you're not cutting off money, you're not trying to do something to harm or damage or even make her pay for what she's doing. In the sense of repercussions, it's like. May I tell you what I feel, and so I would say, in my opinion, that's a good idea, as long as you remember all the things I said up front, which means that, rather than getting her to open up and be transparent, and you begin to blend the relationship back together, which is what you want, it may propel her further away from you, because now she's thinking well, I've gotten away with this as long as I can, and I I don't want to go back, and now that he's bringing this stuff up, I've got to do something. So do you hear it? One possibility is it'll send her further away faster. The other possibility is at least you can start talking to each other, and I like the fact that you say you want to do it by addressing your feelings. Don't accuse her, don't attack her. Tell her what you feel. People are less likely to become defensive and fight back when you just tell them what you feel rather than talking about what they do. Now, that doesn't guarantee they won't get mad and fight back, but it decreases the likelihood of that. So, in my opinion and it's your choice, yes, and why did I give so much information about that? I wanted you to have a bigger picture of it. So go back and listen to all of this again, pick out all the little pieces, make sure you understand all the nuances. But then, if it were, I I'd tell her what I felt.
Speaker 1:Okay, here's a second question. I'm a bit confused and want to know whether my spouse is in limerence or not. She's recently had a compulsive desire to be friends with her ex, who she dated 25 years ago. Obviously I'm unhappy and uncomfortable about it ago. Obviously I'm unhappy and uncomfortable about it. He's been following him on social media and searching his entire family, including his wife. I don't know or understand what she's going through. She says she loves me, but she wants to meet him and have coffee and catch up, sometimes over the phone or in person. If he visits the city where we live, he lives in a different city. She said to me I don't know what's happening to me. I can't explain it. What do you think this is? Should I be patient or leave the relationship after being together for 23 years and have three lovely kids? That last sentence is the thing I would strongly recommend that you not do. It's not time to leave this relationship.
Speaker 1:When she says I don't know what's happening to me, I'm quite convinced she's telling you the truth. She doesn't know what's happening to her. You say well, is it limerence? Well, technically, if she's not had much contact with him for 25 years and she's thinking if I could just have a phone call to catch up, that means that they're not in contact and dialogue with each other in any shape or fashion right now. If she's telling the truth about that, then I would say that this is, in all likelihood, not limerence. It doesn't fit the characteristics of limerence. You say then what do you think it is, dr Beam?
Speaker 1:I think it's a fantasy. I think it's a fantasy. You see, sometimes in life people get to the point where it's like I thought life would be different by now. This is what I expected life to be, what I would have, what I have done, where I'm headed, all kinds of things, and when those expectations are not met, people can go into an emotional crisis. Now, often it's referred to as a midlife crisis, but it's not just in midlife. It can happen at 25, 35, 45, 55, and any number in between. It's because of the fact that at some point and it can be different for different people, and it doesn't have to happen at midlife, and it can happen more than once At some point people look around and go there's something missing and I don't know what it is. And what will happen often at that time is that a fantasy will begin to take over of. Wow.
Speaker 1:I remember what it was like 25 years ago when I was dating Charlie or Mary or whomever it might have been, and it was a different time, more idyllic Now, to some degree and I'm old enough to say this. It was a more gentle time, but not nearly as much as we think it was. You see, people sometimes either think about only the bads and therefore their history is terrible and oh my goodness, I never want to go back there again. But there are some people who think only about the goods, like let me think about how happy we were when that happened. Let me think about how happy I was then. This is what I came home from school, I did my homework and then my boyfriend called me and we talked for an hour on the telephone and whatever. And these fantasies based on the good memories from back in those times become very, very powerful and it creates a craving, a longing. Now, in that sense it is similar to limerence.
Speaker 1:Limerence does have a craving and longing for a particular person that they want to be with for the rest of their lives. She's saying I love you. I don't think she's craving or thinking about being with him the rest of her lives, although that fantasy may have occurred and that's why she may have checked out the wife to see if are they happy, those kinds of things. But in my opinion, not limerence. In my opinion, it's unfulfilled life. Right now she's missing something and she can't place her finger on what it is, and so her mind has jumped on that past, thinking, wow, if I could just have it like it was back. Then you say so how do I help her with that? Not by leaving her. I mean, she's confused already. You don't want to do something drastic like that. She says she still loves you, believe that Now you can sit down with her on occasion if she is willing.
Speaker 1:Don't push this, don't force this and say let's talk about the things in life we thought. Each of us individually thought that we have not by now, not what we thought as a couple, but what did you think? What did I think? And let's just kind of talk about that a little bit of the time. 10 minutes today, 15 minutes next week. Let's just have that conversation every so often and, as we do, let's see what it is that we thought we would have, that we don't. I don't think you're going to be able to immediately come up with it. It's not on the surface, it's deep in there somewhere, and so it will take some degree, and one way to talk about this is okay. As we try to figure that out.
Speaker 1:Let's tell each other stories from 25 years ago or so. Tell me stories about your life back then. That will help me know who you were. Then I'll tell you stories about my life back then so you can know who I was back then. And it's often in the stories that each of you will begin to get a glimpse of what's missing. And you say how? Because you begin to see the emotions change. You'll begin to see her either get happier as she tells that story almost rapturous or you'll begin to see her cry, get very sad maybe not necessarily tears, but sad and maybe tears and even possibility sobbing. No matter which reaction you see, do not negatively react. Be understanding, be compassionate. Don't get jealous.
Speaker 1:If she's missing something with a boyfriend from 25 years ago, that has nothing to do with you directly. It has something to do with her missing something. Now you might be thinking, but that may mean I'm not giving her something she needs, or she's not finding something in a relationship that she wants. That's correct, but that's still not attacking you. It's her mind trying to tell her. This is something that I want Now. If you can help her discover that by asking questions and listening, paying attention, not reacting negatively. Don't do that. Then there's a possibility that together you guys can figure this out and then you can change certain things about your situation. Because it may be that she wanted to be an adventurer and that all it means is that you find a greater job in Alaska and you move there, unless you already live in Alaska. Or it may mean simply she wants to go back to college and get a degree in such and such that she never did. It can be anything, but it's fixating on that boyfriend from 25 years ago. I can almost guarantee you it's not him, it's something else associated around that part of her life, that period of her life. Now, if you can't figure it out together, then she's going to need to see a good therapist, particularly one who is trained in EFT emotionally focused therapy who can help her begin to understand what emotions she's going through. Did you hear the main point? Don't leave her. Help her, please. And now the last question for this particular episode.
Speaker 1:If you're still with me and haven't left because you're so mad at some of the things I've said so far, my reluctant spouse has agreed very recently to attend the workshop. You see, we at MH International Marriage Help, if you prefer to call us that. We do intensive three-day workshops for marriages that have troubles. We do them in person right here in Spring Hill, tennessee, which is just south of Nashville, and so therefore it's easy to get to for people from anywhere. We often have Canadians here. We often have people believe it or not from Iceland who come to our workshops here in person. We've had people from England, china, I mean all kinds of places, because Nashville is easy to get to and if you come to an in-person workshop, you actually will have a great experience here. Now we also do online workshops for people who just can't get here, and people from all over the world get into those online workshops. It's the same material. It's taught the same way. The group dynamics changes a little bit, of course, because it's online, but we do workshops both ways, both in person and online.
Speaker 1:I love to be in the in-person workshops actually. Now he goes on to say recently she agreed to attend the workshop. We'll be attending the in-person workshop the first weekend in January. I think I'll actually be doing a portion of that workshop. Unless something changes about health or some situation like that, I'll be doing a portion of that workshop, so I'll get to meet these people, unless something strongly bad happens. I'll be doing a portion of that workshop. So I'll get to meet these people. Unless something strongly bad happens, I'll be there, okay, so we'll be attending the in-person workshop the first weekend in January. We're about three years into our marital crisis and two and a half years since she moved out.
Speaker 1:I attended the in-person solo last March. Now we have solo workshops in the sense that, okay, my spouse is not ready, I want to come to a workshop anyway. We have three versions of that Our online version both men and women attend the solo workshop. Then we have in-persons right here in our teaching building, right here in Spring Hill, tennessee, and we have either men or women, but we don't mix them in the in-person workshop. You say, why not? Because they're hurting people, and hurting people sometimes will start ministering to each other and that can go over boundaries very quickly because of the pain. Not because they're bad people, but because of the pain. So in-person workshops are either all male or all female. As a matter of fact, I'm leading the next all male solo workshop and it will be in March. I'll give you information in a few minutes about how you can find out about that. I love doing the all-male workshops. It's an amazing weekend for all of us. So they're coming to one for the couple. They're coming to an in-person couple workshop right here in our teaching building, which is just 100 feet from where I'm recording right now.
Speaker 1:And he says as the date draws nearer, I find myself so very grateful for marriage helper, excited to finally be to the point of attending with my spouse, and also a bit apprehensive all at the same time. If I were you, I would experience all those same emotions as well Joy, happiness and apprehension, all at the same time. I get it. I understand you love this woman. Now mine is a story of hope and perseverance and, although the outcome is far from certain, I know I'm a better man for having made the journey with the help of Dr Joe. Well, thank you, kimberly. Kimberly Holmes is our CEO and she does a great job leading us and a wonderful marriage helper team. We have team members that live in Tennessee. We have team members living all across America. We have team members living in South Africa and they're all wonderful people. I'm privileged to get to work with them. And he goes on to say then I'm a better man because I've gotten to deal with all you folks to ask a very broad question what advice would you have for me as I navigate the couples workshop?
Speaker 1:Okay, before the workshop, do nothing that might be a push. Now we talk about pushes as being those things that evoke negative emotions in the other person, and so, therefore, don't say things that you believe would probably evoke a negative emotion in your wife. Don't say things, don't do things, don't talk to other people about things. Don't do anything that might come back to bite you in the butt, in the sense that she will think that you have done something to hurt her. Therefore, be very quiet, very calm, very helpful if she needs help with anything, very understanding to anything that she says, and if you have any interaction with her, only do those things that evoke positive emotions within her and don't guess. You should know her well enough to know those things that do and those things that don't, and be very, very careful. If there's something you're thinking that might evoke a positive emotion in her, but it might not, then don't do it. Just let things lie as best you can. Don't create any situations between now and the workshop.
Speaker 1:Now, what do you do when you come to the workshop. Be at peace, don't push her. That was one workshop where this woman actually punched her husband and said are you hearing what that man's saying? Listen to him. Oh man, it didn't go well, so don't push her. Don't push her one iota. Don't say hey, why don't you tell them about this? Or did you hear that? Or what did you think about this other? As a matter of fact, what we tell people during the workshop is this it took you a while to get into the situation that you're in. You're not going to fix it overnight. Don't try. Just come, listen, participate, be friendly with the other people that are in the workshop and just be your best self, and still don't do anything. That's a push that's going to evoke a negative emotion within your spouse.
Speaker 1:The workshop is very laid back and easy. In that sense, it's easy for people to be comfortable. It's easy for people to feel safe. It's easy for people to listen without feeling they're being pressured. We do all of that on purpose, so don't mess that up. Shared. We knew all of that on purpose, so don't mess that up. Just come in as relaxed as you can be, as kind as you can be, as gentle as you can be and let us do our work. You don't try to do it for us.
Speaker 1:By the way, we have workshops regularly, both those right here in Middle Tennessee and Spring Hill, just south of Nashville. If you fly in, you'd fly into our airport, which is about 40 minutes from here, maybe on a bad traffic day, and there are plenty of good places to stay around here, plenty of fun places to eat around here, and if you spend an extra day or so, go down to Nashville. It's a tourist spot. You'll have a blast down there. We recommend that you stay sober if you go down there, and so Nashville is a wonderful place and the people that will do the workshop are wonderful people, because we care and we're not going to pressure anybody.
Speaker 1:So if you're contemplating our workshop, here's how you can find out more about it and, by the way, it won't put any pressure on you at all. If you go to marriagehelpercom slash call, you say what will that do? It'll give you a way to make an appointment with one of our representatives that you can call and talk to, and you can ask all the questions in the world. They'll also ask you some questions because we want to know if we really can help you and they'll ask some questions about that. They'll be gentle, they'll be ask you some questions because we want to know if we really can help you and they'll ask some questions about that. They'll be gentle, they'll be kind and when you ask questions, they'll tell you the truth. Okay, and you can find out all about our workshop and don't feel that you're going to be hounded to death until you come.
Speaker 1:We teach our representatives not to be pushy. We teach them how to understand, how to listen, how to ask questions, and if a person really doesn't need a workshop, they'll ask you if you want to come. They're not going to hold back and they'll ask you that, hey, we got one coming up next weekend or whatever. Would you like to come to that? Because they really care, all of them really care.
Speaker 1:Now, these are not counselors, these are not therapists, these are not coaches. And so if you think, oh, I'm going to call and get a free session, like I'm talking to a counselor, no, but you can get up to about 45 minutes of conversation with somebody who cares and somebody who is very well trained. It's just that he or she is not a coach, counselor. They are people who understand folks like you and help you know about what we have and whether you want to do it or not, and it's a free call. All you have to do is go to Marriage Helper, marriage Helpy or marriagehelpercom slash call and you'll get to register some slot.
Speaker 1:Now, if you do that, I ask you to remember what slot you registered to have the call, because our folks are busy helping people and they actually talk to people all over the world and that's no exaggeration. And so if you, if you book one of those 45 minute slots, please remember it and please hold it for us so that our folks don't wind up not being able to help somebody during that 45 minutes. And so if you schedule it, please be there for it. We ask you to do that if you will, because we care about your marriage. I hope you care about your marriage and we want to be there for you. We have some things to talk about here in the new year at Relationship Radio. We're happy that you were in this episode. Not all our episodes are going to be like this, where I'm just answering questions. We're going to do a variety of things I think you're going to find very interesting. So, Dr Joe Bean, speaking for all the crew at MNH International, I look forward to seeing you in the next episode of Relationship Radio.
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