Relationship Radio: Marriage, Sex, Limerence & Avoiding Divorce
Relationship Radio: Marriage, Sex, Limerence & Avoiding Divorce
Is It Possible To Rebuild Trust After An Affair?
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Trust can be a fragile and complex component of any relationship, as many of us have discovered through personal experience. Imagine rebuilding your relationship after a significant breach of trust; it’s not impossible, but it requires effort and understanding. Today, we unravel the hidden layers of betrayal, from infidelity to financial deceit, and the emotional upheaval that follows. By sharing examples of these betrayals and exploring the motivations behind deceptive actions, we'll equip you with strategies to address the emotional scars left behind and begin the journey of rebuilding trust.
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Trust me. How many times have you heard somebody say that and the first thing you thought was no way in the world am I going to trust you? It might be because you think they're trying to sell you something that's way too expensive or that's not as good as it appears to be, or because somebody is trying to convince you to do something that you're very wary about. I don't think I should do that. Or somebody's trying to lead you to believe something and you're thinking it's just not right. I can't buy into this, because I'm not sure that this is true. And yet they say trust me, don't you trust me? As a matter of fact, sometimes, when they ask that question, don't you trust me? It can be one of the most manipulative questions that you can ever hear, and so if somebody says that to me, don't you trust me? The first thing I'm going to do is back up and say what's behind that? What is the motivation behind asking me that question? Well, let's talk about it. Hi, I'm Dr Joe Beam. This is Relationship Radio, welcome. Let's talk about trust, and particularly in this particular episode, we're going to be talking about trust when it comes to somebody violating the marriage vow, and now you want to put the marriage back together, or at least one of you wants to put the marriage back together, and when you say, oh, you're talking about adultery, but there are other things that can violate the vow just as well Gambling haul the money away and the other person doesn't know it. You've done it secretly. I remember working with one couple many years ago. He had gotten several credit cards she knew nothing about and he had maxed them all out, gambling at sports bars. She eventually found out when this guy obviously not thinking very clearly went to apply for a mortgage so they could buy a new house, the creditors instantly found out about the other cards that she knew nothing about. She found out about it and she was livid. You can understand, you can imagine that right. So it could be something like that. It could be something like I had some secret from back in my life and, because we're married and I love you and I trust you, I shared my secret with you, hoping that nobody else ever hears about it ever, maybe. It's something I did when I was five years old that I'm still ashamed about. Or 15 years old I wish I hadn't done, or five years old it was done to me and I don't want anybody to ever know. It happened to me, and so it's like I've trusted you with that information. But you violate my trust in the sense that you tell someone else. And now it's public knowledge out there, or at least public enough that I know that certain people know about it. And now I'm thinking how can I ever trust you again? I told you my deepest, darkest secret and, rather than protecting it and cherishing it, you shared it with somebody else. You may have said to that person that don't you tell anybody, which is probably what they told the person that they told it to Don't you tell anybody. And it went on that way down the line.
Speaker 1:So, yes, it can be adultery, it can be gambling, it can be pornography that's hidden, it can be violating the sanctity of a secret that you've been holding that other people really don't need to know. It can be any number of things, but what happens is the other person looks at you and goes I don't think I'm going to ever trust you again. When I'm working with a couple where infidelity has occurred, often the person who has been cheated on will say something like this you don't know the worst part about this. Of course I listen because I need to hear what they feel, but most of the time I can predict what they're going to say. Next, the most difficult part of this, the most terrible part of this, the part of this that hurts more than anything else, is he lied to me or she lied to me. I trusted him, I trusted her and they violated that trust. They took advantage of my trust and when I began to know that something was happening and it became very suspicious because of circumstances and situations and I would ask questions, it would be like well, trust me, don't you trust me? I would never do that. And then they found out later that they did.
Speaker 1:So what is trust anyway? Trust is a belief system, believe it or not Trust if I trust you, it means that I believe that the decisions that you make and the actions that you take will be for the benefit of our relationship and or benefit me. I want to say it again If I trust you, I believe that the decisions you make and the actions you take will be for the benefit of our relationship and or me. If I distrust you, it means that I believe that the decisions that you make and the actions that you take will be for what you believe is your benefit, but will be harmful to our relationship or harmful to me. In other words, you may feel it's benefiting you, but you know, you know that it's harming our relationship or it's harming me, and that's what distrust says. I can't distrust what you, I cannot trust what you think, I cannot trust what you do, I cannot trust what you believe, because of the fact that I'm convinced that you think primarily about you and you don't really care about the welfare of a relationship or my welfare. So that's the difference between trust and distrust.
Speaker 1:Now, usually mistrust and distrust are used interchangeably. I prefer to differentiate a little bit. Mistrust for me is like I don't know whether I can trust you or not. So trust, I believe that your decisions and actions are a benefit of our relationship. Distrust I believe they're going to only benefit you and actually harm our relationship. Mistrust is I don't really know. Now again, these are usually interchangeable, but in my way of thinking, those are two different things. So we can talk about all of these things of thinking. Those are two different things. So we can talk about all of these things. But for the sake of time, let's just key into infidelity, because that one kind of talks about a whole bunch of deep emotions and involvements and we can learn from the principles from that about how to apply to all the other things I just talked about.
Speaker 1:And so if one spouse cheats as a matter of fact, think about that word. And so if one spouse cheats as a matter of fact, think about that word. We call it cheating because of the fact that we see it as being dishonest, that we see it as being only for your benefit and actually to my detriment. It's hurting me, it's causing me pain, harm in some kind, and so that's why we tend to call it cheating I cheated on her, she cheated on me, or whatever it might be. And that that's why we tend to call it cheating I cheated on her, she cheated on me, or whatever it might be. And that word's pretty significant.
Speaker 1:As a matter of fact, I remember one guy in one of our workshops it was one of our in-person workshops a few years ago that other people in the workshop were saying things like and, by the way, we don't make you tell this, people sometimes want to volunteer it and we make it a very safe place if they do, but nobody's forced to talk about what they did, and nobody can talk about what their spouse did. We don't allow that. But some people were talking about what they had done and they were using the word affair. This one guy turned to the group and said I'm not going to refer to mine as an affair, I'm going to call it adultery. He said I'm a religious man. I follow the Bible as best I can, or at least I have done so most of my life, but I have not done so. Recently I committed adultery, and so he used the word. It was pretty powerful, pretty strong when most people use a softer word and we actually use it in our workshops the softer word the affair, so as not to be offensive to people.
Speaker 1:Now, in that situation, he was in our workshop because he was wanting to put his marriage back together. His wife wasn't sure if that's what she wanted to do or not, but because she believed at heart he was a good man who had done a bad thing, she wanted to at least explore the possibility of. Can we figure out how this happened? Was it me, was it him? Was it life, was it circumstances? I want to know what led to this. And then she also wanted to know can we get past this? Can I possibly in any shape, fashion or form be able to forgive him to the point where that it's not going to be eating at me in my heart and my mind for the rest of my life? And so that's why they were at the workshop.
Speaker 1:By the way, quite a few couples come to our workshop for that very same reason, whether it was the husband who cheated or the wife who cheated, they come for that. Now I hope you heard me say a minute ago we make it very safe. We don't say, okay, tell us your wicked, terrible sin that you committed. We don't do that. And if somebody does decide to tell us something about what they've done, we don't attack them, we don't accuse them. We try to understand and to help them. Sometimes it makes some people upset I want you to chew my spouse out, beat him up, let him have it. Well, no, if you want people to do that, I'm sure there are people who will. But we're trying to help you save your marriage, not just end it by destroying it. So, as they're doing that, then, dr Beam, suppose they learn how they got into this situation, and almost always they do. Suppose they learn how never to get in that situation again. And they do, and suppose they learn a process where they can actually forgive, to the point where they can get past it, where it's not going to haunt them the rest of their lives. Yeah, they learn how to do that too, but how in the world are they going to trust the other person again?
Speaker 1:Now, one of the things that kind of sets us apart is the fact that I continually read research about relationships. That's not the part that sets us apart. Many people do that. But I read not just about personal relationships, like a husband and wife, a parent and a child, best friend, whatever. I also read about relationships in other situations. So, for example, I'll read about relationships in businesses, about the relationship between this company and that company and how they can build it, how they can maintain it and if it is violated, then how can they restore it and be able to trust each other again. And so I read about how corporations and companies do that. I read about how nations, if they ever do that, can do that. I read about how even people in different political parties can do that rarely but occasionally somehow are able to do that. And so we're not just looking at husbands and wives, we're looking at relationships in every kind of category you can imagine. You say why? Because it's amazing how much you can learn when you look at it from different perspectives, not looking at it the same way all the time. Let's look at it from these people's eyes Now. Let's see it through these people's eyes Now.
Speaker 1:One of the things that we developed by reading about corporate America actually is a process called calculative trust. You say now, what does that mean? It means I don't trust you, I distrust you, but I'm willing to try to put the relationship back together. But a crucial part of putting the relationship back together is that we have to reestablish trust, and we can't do that just by you saying, hey, I'm sorry, I did that, everything's fine, I'll never do it again, trust me. I wouldn't buy into that. Why would you? And so calculative trust basically says all right, we're going to set some parameters, we're going to set some conditions and criteria and then we're going to set some way to monitor that. And if you fulfill these criteria, if you meet these conditions, if you do what you're supposed to do in a way where I can know for a fact that that is happening, not in just the things that you do, but in the things that you must not do, and I can have some way to know that so that I am not just taking your word, I can monitor it. Then that's called calculative trust. We're going to calculate a way to build a process where I can eventually trust you again Now in a corporation.
Speaker 1:It might be something like you mishandled some of the money we gave you to do this particular project that we subcontracted you to do, and so one thing we will do in our calculative trust is we can have our auditors come in every three months and look at your books to make sure that everything is kosher, the way it should be. You say, well, wouldn't that be offensive to the offending company, like we don't want you looking at our books? Yes, it would be offending to them if they have something to hide. It would not be offensive to them if they're on the up and up and saying we made some errors there, we made some poor decisions, but we're going to prove to you that we're going to do it right this time. Calculative trust.
Speaker 1:So let's put that with a husband and a wife, and there are two sides to this. There's the person who did the cheating and there's the person who was cheated on. Now let's say that it was the wife who did the cheating. She's the one who had the affair, the infidelity, and she has come back to her husband and said I want to put this back together. And he's saying I don't know if I can ever forgive you for that. I've run into that situation so many times. I don't know if I can ever forgive you for that and I don't know if I could ever trust you again because of the fact that you pulled it off so smoothly. I mean, you were able to do that and completely blindside me where I never knew what was going on. If you can that smoothly do something to hurt me, how can I ever trust you again? And we'd say well, let's put you through the workshop so you can find out how it happened, what happened, why it happened, how you can repair that and determine the emotions between the two of you, how you can figure out all the methodology of reconciliation, the things you need to do.
Speaker 1:Her violation of the covenant by cheating, by sleeping with some other guy, not to absolve that there's guilt there. But how can you put it back together without either one of you feeling that he or she is a slave, that, oh my goodness, the rest of my life I'm going to be treated badly because of this. Because I did have one woman tell me one time several years ago the only reason I stayed married to him is so I could remind him every day for the rest of his life how evil he is. We won't help people do that Now. As part of this process, then they're going to have to build some kind of a system where each person will buy into it completely, and it's going to be a calculative trust process that will last for some time. It might last for six months, it might last for 18 months. Now, it can't last forever. Trust me, I'll come back. Oh, I said, trust me. I think that's hilarious. Trust me in the sense that it can't last forever, and I'm going to show you why in a few minutes. Okay, so what kind of calculative trust? Okay, if she's the one that cheated and we find out?
Speaker 1:Okay, part of that was because of the fact that she was hanging out with these divorced women and she would go out with them at least once every other week, if not every week, and they would go out to a bar together and drink, and these women sometimes would allow themselves to be picked up by guys. And while she was the faithful housewife, that lifestyle began to affect her. And one night some guy who was particularly charming, particularly handsome, whatever it might be, somehow convinced her to go to a hotel with him. And she had a night with him I'll be kind with my words here and she found it titillating, she found it exciting and she tells herself well, I'm still in love with my husband, I would never, ever leave him, I'm going to stay in this. But, man, that was exciting.
Speaker 1:And so she meets him again, and then maybe again, and maybe it finally turns into what we call limerence, where she finds herself feeling quote madly in love with the other guy. Or maybe it never turns into that, maybe it's just what we call a high opportunity, low involvement affair. In other words, it's really easy to do it and I don't have to commit myself in any way. Whatever the reason might be and we help people figure that out in our workshop which is it? What is it? But whichever it might be, she gets caught.
Speaker 1:She now wants to try to save the marriage and the husband's saying how can I trust you again? You told me all those nights that when you came home a little bit late, it's because one of them had a problem and you stayed to help her out and listen. You lied so successfully that I believed everything that you said and you had me completely convinced that I was the bad guy for suspecting anything. And now here we are in a situation where you want to come back and I'm saying how can I trust you when you can lie so effectively? And you did something that neither of us ever thought you would do. All right, now there's a lot more involved in the reconciliation process.
Speaker 1:I'm just talking about the trust part here, just the trust. And you say about the trust part here, just the trust. And you say what would you do? Calculative trust, all right, what must not happen? You must not hang out with those women anymore as part of the calculative trust, because it was their influence that led you to the situation where you did the thing that you had promised you would never do. Therefore, I cannot trust you if you're still doing things with them and if she were to say well, what if I spend some time with them, but at the park, not at the bar. You know, sometimes we just meet there and sit and just talk to each other.
Speaker 1:The husband might say I won't accept that as part of my calculative trust, you can have no contact with them whatsoever. And what I mean is no text, no emails, no meeting in the park, and if you bump into them in the grocery store, you say hello and you keep going, you're on the next aisle very quickly, and I need to know that you will do that because I don't trust them. Now, another thing is you can have no more contact with that guy. She said I'm done with him, I'm over with him, wonderful, but you can have no contact with him, for whatever reason. And so it might be well, he has my cell phone number. I can't help it. He calls me.
Speaker 1:Okay, one part of the calculated trust might be then we need to change your cell phone number, but that's going to be difficult because of the fact that I've got so many things tied to that cell phone number business things, personal things, apps on my phone, paying our bills, et cetera, et cetera. That's going to be a monstrous product or project. I should say that's going to be a monstrous product or project. I should say, that's going to be a monstrous project If I changed my number, to which he might reply but I'm looking for safety. You see, if you have a brand new number and you're not giving it to anybody else, then I won't worry about that guy trying to call you Now, on the other hand, he might say okay, that is too difficult.
Speaker 1:So here's what's going to happen. I get to see every phone call, every text, and so what I'm going to do is, when a phone call comes in, whoever you talk to during the day, whatever calls you make, whatever call comes back to you, then what's going to happen there is, I'm going to get to see everything and therefore, if he does call you, he tries to contact you. I'm going to know, because I'm going to see it. Well, but I'll have no privacy. That's correct. And we're not going to live like that the rest of our lives because you're not a child. So we can't go two years, three years like that, because neither one of us can stand it, but we can go a year like that, and if she says well, what about nine months?
Speaker 1:I think you compromise at some point, but you understand you're making hard. In fact, you cannot do this and if you do, there is a consequence. Now, if you come to our workshop, you'll be able to become membership or have membership with us and in our membership I actually have a series it's video and it's on PDF that'll tell you how to do all of that stuff, how to put up the boundaries that need to be put up and how to enforce the boundaries that need to be put up, and that's all available to you for free if you become a member with us, and that will automatically happen. I think, is that right? Automatically happen. If you come to one of our workshops, you say but that's going to be tough, and then there might be some other things like okay, here's another thing, I need to handle all of the money. Well, I'm used to taking part of my paycheck and just going and having fun with it, and you will again. But right now I need to handle all the money because I need to know if you buy a burn phone. I need to know if you're spending money on liquor. I need to know if blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah you say really, and if you're going to be 10 minutes late, I need you to call me and tell me where you are and take a picture and show me that kind of stuff. Now I'm beginning to make it sound like you're going to set up like 40 or 50 things here and I'm telling you you can't do that. That would absolutely not work. What I'm saying is it has to be something where the person whose trust you're trying to regain can feel safe, but not so much that this person over here gives up all hope. So that's where it can't be five years, it can't be the rest of our life. It's got to have some kind of an end period that you work out.
Speaker 1:You say well, why would a person agree to this? They won't, unless they're wanting to reestablish trust. So when I cheated on Alice, my wife, way back in 1984, we remarried in 1987. I divorced Alice for the other woman when we remarried in 1987, without even realizing what we were doing, we said those same things. Alice handled all the money. She knew where I was every minute. There were certain places that I would not go.
Speaker 1:One agreement I made with her was, even though I was helping people, you can never meet with one woman alone, even if she just wants to have coffee to talk to you. Never meet with one woman alone. Okay, that's fine with me. Well, what if the woman says I've got to talk to you and talk to you alone and nobody else can hear? I'll say there are plenty of people out there you can call to help you, but I don't meet with any woman alone, because that was a precursor that set up my infidelity helping a woman and finally beginning to care too much about her, which led to my infidelity.
Speaker 1:So since we knew that, we cut that out, you say, well, wait a minute, that was back in the 1980s. Do you still have that To a degree? To a degree in the sense that if someone wants to talk to me alone, I'll ask Alice, is that comfortable for you? And she says, yeah, I do. If she says I don't feel good about one, I say okay, I won't. It's not a criteria that she's laid on me. It's one thing I continue to do because I want to convince her.
Speaker 1:So I don't live by all the things we did. I did those things for about 10 months to a year where I was basically being treated as if not being treated. I willingly did it. So let me rephrase that I was not being treated badly. I volunteered. You can check on me like I'm a wayward teenager. You can know everything I do. You can see my cell phone, you can see my. Do we have cell phones back in 87? I can't remember. But you can do all those kinds of things, but I can't do it all my life because I would feel I was some kind of a slave. And so I can do it until you regain trust.
Speaker 1:And that's what calculative trust is. And so it has to give safety, emotional safety, particularly to the person who has been violated, and it has to be voluntarily agreed to by the person who caused the pain. Therefore, each of them together have to build a calculative trust. Now if you say, what if we can't agree on how to do that? Okay, it's not always the easiest thing in the world to do.
Speaker 1:We have coaches that work with us here at MH International Marriage Helper, and the coach will not tell you how to do it, but the coach can help you think through how to build that calculative. The coach can help you think through how to build that calculative trust by asking questions Okay, is this really that big a deal? If it's not, let's just leave this one aside. And so sometimes the spouse is saying I have to have this, I have to have this. The coach might say to them. You know, that sounds a little extreme to me. I don't know if anybody can live like that, are you sure? Is it that important to you to do that? And so the coaches can help you keep it there by asking questions and making comments, but they will not design it for you. You have to design it for you individually.
Speaker 1:Can it be done? Yes, can trust be re-earned, absolutely? Well then, dr E, how long did it take you to re-earn Alice's trust? Probably about a year. And then she trusted you again, mm-hmm. Now, occasionally she'd come up with some questions, because of the fact that sometimes things just pop up out of nowhere. But yes, she did, and she's trusted me for all these years, and that trust has been validated. And so we look at that and go so you can trust the other person again, Absolutely. You can trust them completely, absolutely, absolutely. You can trust them completely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I even one time, a few years ago, when I was on the road speaking at an event, I actually had a waitress make a heavy pass at me. You know, I know, not now, not this old fat guy. This was a few years ago. I tried to remember every word she said. You said why? So I could go back and tell Alice, you what. I went back and I told Alice. Here's what she did. Here's what she said Did you have to do that, mm-mm? Why did you do it? Because I knew it would help her trust me more. I'm going to tell her anything like that so she doesn't have to worry about what I'm doing out there. And so, in that sense, the rest of my life I will do things to increase her trust for me. But for about a year we did Calculative Trust. Now, to find out more about that, of course you can talk to one of our coaches and he or she can help you.
Speaker 1:But we also have this thing called a workshop. It's a three-day intensive for couples who have trouble, and a lot of the couples who come are there because of infidelity Not all of them by any means, but a lot of couples who come because of infidelity. Sometimes it's the husband, sometimes it's the wife, sometimes it's been both. And in those three days we go through a lot of things in our hurry helping people to understand how did that happen, why did that happen, how to not ever do it again how to rebuild a relationship, how to reconcile where it's fair and you can live with it All passing, how to forgive it so you don't have to be haunted by it the rest of your life. And how can you trust each other again. You say you can teach us all that in three days. Yes, and we're going to be perfect after three days. No, that's why we continue to have this thing called membership that we hope you will be part of and stay with us for at least another year, where other members can help you and our own staff can be in there and that membership helping you. And we also have coaching available to you, where our coaches can help guide you either individually or as a couple. In other words, we want to give you the full package so we can help you put all this back together trust each other again, be deeply in love with each other again.
Speaker 1:If you go to marriagehelpercom that's marriagehelpercom slash call you can go to there, marriagehelper that's marriagehelpercom slash call.
Speaker 1:And you can schedule half hour visits with some of our team not our coaches. These are not counselors, these are not therapists. These are people who will talk to you, listen to you, ask you questions about your situation. Understand where you are, what it is you're looking for, what you need. Ask you questions about your situation. Understand where you are, what it is you're looking for, what you need, what you want, and if we have something we can help you accomplish that with, they'll tell you about that. And so, if you decide to come to our workshop, we'll teach you all the things I've been talking about and, because of the package, you'll be in membership after that and you'll have access to our toolkits after that and you'll have coaching available to you after that and we can help you save those marriages. And now the question is but will we be in love with each other again? See it all the time, but will we ever really be again? That's a good question. Let's talk about that in the next episode of Relationship Radio.
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