Relationship Radio: Marriage, Sex, Limerence & Avoiding Divorce
Relationship Radio: Marriage, Sex, Limerence & Avoiding Divorce
Why Labeling Your Spouse Won’t Save Your Marriage
Enjoy the episode? Send us a text!
When your marriage feels like it's falling apart, it's tempting to search for answers—especially ones that explain your spouse’s behavior. Maybe you’ve wondered, "Could they be a narcissist?" or "Do they have bipolar disorder?"
In this episode, Kimberly Beam Holmes is joined by Marriage Helper coach and counselor Meredith Ball to unpack the dangers of diagnosing your spouse. You’ll learn why it’s natural to want clarity, but how labeling your spouse can backfire—leading to more disconnection instead of healing.
We’ll discuss:
- Why people self-diagnose their spouse
- The risks of assigning mental health labels without professional help
- How to focus on what’s actually within your control
- The surprising way real healing starts
If you're struggling in your marriage, don’t wait. Get our FREE resource: The 7 Steps to Rescue Your Marriage 👉 https://marriagehelper.com/free
📞 BOOK A CALL WITH OUR TEAM: https://marriagehelper.com/call
🔗 Website: https://marriagehelper.com
📱 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marriagehelper
👀 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@marriagehelper
Follow our other channels!
📺 https://youtube.com/@kimberlybeamholmes
📺 https://youtube.com/@drjoebeam
Should you diagnose your spouse with a mental health disorder? If yes, how do you do it and if not, why not? That's what we're going to be discussing on today's episode, and I am joined by marriage helper coach Meredith Ball, Glad to have you back again. Thank you. Also. You are a counselor, professional counselor, working towards your licensure in LPC, which stands for licensed professional counselor, Correct. Did you have a class on this in your master's program? Like should you diagnose other people?
Speaker 2:There's a psychopathology class that you take.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yes, so that you know, part of my licensure will be a mental health service provider, which does give me the right to diagnose, but there's quite a bit of discussion in the counseling field about how helpful that even is. That may be something that we get into.
Speaker 1:Oh interesting. Is there a psychopathology in the DSM for people who love to diagnose other people?
Speaker 2:That probably could fall under some different things. It's not an official diagnosis that I know of.
Speaker 1:Right. But there I mean, I see it all the time I'm sure you do too where people just want to know or they want to have some kind of explanation for things they don't think are quite right. Yeah, why do you think that is?
Speaker 2:It's something I run into a lot in my work and it's something that I can relate to, because in the case of a marriage helper client, what is often happening is there's a standing spouse who is seeing behavior in their reluctant spouse that seems completely contrary to the person they've known them to be, and I think the idea of a diagnosis to them seems like it would be some kind of peace, almost like I can wrap my mind around why my spouse is acting, why their behavior seems so out of line for them, and it almost makes their spouse maybe a little less culpable. If there's a like a medical or a psychopathological reason why their spouse is acting the way they are, maybe some of their behavior is a little bit easier to stomach as well. So I get why it is. I think we like answers.
Speaker 2:Uncertainty is hard. So whether it's something going on with my spouse that's caused them to want out of the marriage, or something going on with my kid who's having trouble focusing at school or is in trouble at school, whatever it is, we go looking for answers and maybe other people who would say their symptoms are in line with what we're experiencing. I think there's some sort of reassurance that can be found there. So I certainly can understand why and, like I said, I've been there myself with people close to me that I'm like I have to wrap my mind around why they're even doing these things that they're doing, which seem really crazy. I mean, it's crazy making stuff that we and maybe we notice in ourselves as well, but certainly in other people that we're trying to figure out. We're trying to figure out something yeah, we can relate, how we can get solutions, that type of yeah, I had a family member who diagnosed herself.
Speaker 1:She diagnosed her child being on the spectrum, and this was like 25 years ago. Because she was like, oh well, they're like sensitive to certain types of fabrics and have interest in certain subjects more than others. Therefore they must have asperger's. And then she started treating them that way, even though they didn't have asperger's, but she was like using it as the way to like explain why her child was different but, it was.
Speaker 1:I think in that specific situation it was more of like she had shame about the fact her child was different and wanted an answer, and but, but they didn't. They didn't like the bottom, but they didn't. They didn't but the bottom line they didn't. And so then there was this resentment, as they grew up, of like you labeled me I was treated as somebody who was different. Right Instead of just accepting me you tried to like, label me and fix me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean in that case there are a lot of kids who are sensitive to loud sounds or bright lights or fabrics. I mean that's, that's a thing that we see in a lot of young children when their brains are still developing. So some of the symptom symptomology that she was noticing, which she was probably correct about, um, and I think what I would caution people to be careful of is over-identifying with that symptomology.
Speaker 1:Because why.
Speaker 2:Because, like in your case, she almost came to identify her child with something that felt pathological to the child, Like mom is identifying me with something that's wrong about me and is treating me in such a way that I'm different, where certainly you know, she notices that her child is sensitive to certain fabrics.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe she does want to explore what she can do to help with that. You know, nobody wants to be sending their kid off to school and they're uncomfortable because of the fabrics they're wearing, or something like that, and she may even seek out the causes for that. But to then over identify with it and make it like this identifying characteristic in your child's life, and especially if the child started to feel like there was something wrong, with him or her. Yeah, I can see where that could. That could go south.
Speaker 1:When it comes to the marriage situations, what do you think are the common ways that people like? What do they typically diagnose their spouse or try to diagnose their spouse with from their own Google or chat? Gpt research.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think we're going to talk about this in another episode but narcissism is the one that I hear a good bit.
Speaker 2:I have spouses that I work with who say my spouse is saying that I'm a narcissist and then spouses that are saying I think my spouse is a narcissist.
Speaker 2:So now that is a psychological disorder of narcissistic personality disorder. I think sometimes when people say that, they're kind of conflating it with the general umbrella of personality disorders, that's probably the one that I hear the most. But I mean I hear all kinds of things major depressive disorder, ocd, bipolar, you know, anxiety disorders, ptsd, all of this and all of those diagnoses they may be. There may be something they're probably noticing, some kind of symptomology that would they may be. There may be something they're probably noticing, some kind of symptomology that would credibly lead them to believe that their spouse might have that kind of diagnosis. But how helpful is it to actually seek that out on your own when your spouse doesn't want that, may not need that? I think it's an over focus on in a direction that may not be helpful in the example of somebody whose marriage is in crisis, like if I'm a standing spouse and my spouse wants out of the marriage or they're having an affair, and I'm seeing in them all sorts of behaviors that are very troubling to me.
Speaker 2:I still have to focus on what's most helpful for me which getting on Google or chat GPT and trying to diagnose them with something and and and then what happens is you start trying to pin the entire entire problem on this diagnosis and it's probably not the main route. That's that's the trouble in the marriage and it's it's also just it's not something that's within your control. A lot of times Now I did. I had a client recently who you know she. She came to her first coaching session and she said my husband was recently diagnosed with bipolar two. This psychiatrist gave him that diagnosis. The psychiatrist is treating it with this certain medication and this certain kind of therapy, and so that is being dealt with and that's an important her husband was bought into the fact that that's something he needs to deal with. He's seeking out his own treatment with the support of his wife. So that's something that's being dealt with over here. It's parallel to the work that they're doing on their marriage, but it's's. It's parallel to the work that they're doing on their marriage, but it's not at the heart of the work that they're doing on their marriage. Now, as his bipolar gets treated and he gets in a healthier spot, that I mean that's essentially him working his pies like he's going to be in a better place to work on his marriage.
Speaker 2:But the marriage issues are what we see all the time there's some infidelity and there's some control. Issues are what we see all the time there's some infidelity and there's some control. And that's the kind of work that they need to focus on when they're here, when they're coaching, when they're trying to make their marriage better. They need to both be focused on the things that they can contribute to making the relationships stronger and not pinning it over here. But absolutely I mean there could be other issues that need to be dealt with. But absolutely I mean there could be other issues that need to be dealt with.
Speaker 1:It's just I would be careful of penning the marriage problems, or the hope of the marriage, on getting a certain diagnosis or getting that treated. Ok, I want to. I'm going to ask this question first and it's going to sound like we're going a little bit backwards. But what if you truly do believe that your spouse is struggling with something like that and you know that it would really help them if they got treatment? But you can't force them to get treatment, like how, what is what? What are some of the best practices of encouraging your spouse to get help for something?
Speaker 2:yeah, I I mean I. I have heard with clients that I've worked with in in coaching and in counseling. They have told me things that would lend me to believe that their spouse might have a personality disorder or even psychosis or bipolar. I would, I would at least want to investigate that if I were that person's medical professional or counselor, which a lot of times I don't have any access to that person at all.
Speaker 2:So you know, in the case of a personality disorder, one of the characteristics that we often see in people that suffer from a personality disorder is they kind of think they don't have a problem. They tend to play the victim pretty well. The problem is out there, with everybody else. They have a hard time taking ownership of everything. So it really does put you in the lane of the very solid marriage helper advice, which is to work your pies. Do your smart contact. Focus on accepting your spouse. Express the acceptance when you can. When you can authentically express acceptance puts you out of the crazy making of trying to fix them and ruminate on what they're doing or not doing. Puts you back in the driver's seat of your life, focusing on the things you can control and you really are, I mean. A lot of times.
Speaker 2:Nearly all the time when I see somebody in Marriage Helper, they are playing the long game.
Speaker 2:We are giving their spouse a chance, maybe for limerence to wear off, maybe for them to take notice of their spouse and the things they're doing, to see if they want to incorporate similar changes and see if they get there. If after 12 months or 18 months there hasn't been any progress on the spouse's front, then I do think you can have the discussion with trusted loved ones as a standing spouse. What does this mean for me? Like this person seems to have their heels dug in pretty deeply. They're not being moved by any of the changes that I'm making. They don't want to come in any closer and discuss the work that we can do. You've still made the changes and you've done the things that you need to do to be healthy, be a healthy person and be in healthier relationships, and you were never able to control them anyway. But I would say wouldn't it be worth it to give them the chance to see, Because I believe that nobody is beyond the possibility of change.
Speaker 2:Some people take a while to get there, so you're essentially it's a lot of patience and focusing on yourself and the things that you can control At a certain essentially it's it's a lot of patience and focusing on yourself and the things that you can control at a certain point. You know, we wouldn't expect anybody to just stand for a marriage interminably if there really isn't, if their spouse really isn't addressing things that need to be addressed.
Speaker 1:Another thing, though, too, is I know that I like if, if a situation is happening in my life, I blow things out of proportion, Like no, I know it's hard to believe but I may exaggerate circumstances, and so, um, I'm thinking about something yesterday where I was frustrated about a situation and I just went to one of like one of my um, one of the groups that I'm in, and I was like I feel like this is so like crazy and terrible. And after telling it to them, they were like this sounds totally normal and completely overcomable, right, but for me, sitting in the middle of it, it felt crazy, and so I have to feel like that happens a lot too, when people are sitting in their bed at night and just thinking like clearly, something must be wrong with my spouse.
Speaker 2:Oh, and it's worse at night too.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent, always worse at night, and so I think what you shared is even more powerful than two of like you. First of all and this is what I want to get to next, like is it even helpful for there to be a diagnosis? But then, secondly, even if there was, it doesn't change what you have to do.
Speaker 2:Right, that would be my main point. Yeah, is it helpful to get a diagnosis? It could be, but if it's for another grown, adult person, they're going to have to be the ones that drive that process of getting the diagnosis and getting treated. Have to be the ones that drive that process of getting the diagnosis and getting treated. If they don't want to do that, you know you want to work hard and do your pie, so that you have that influence with them, so that perhaps they want to pursue that.
Speaker 2:I mean absolutely. I mean I think basically all of us would benefit at least at some point in our lives from some therapeutic help. I think that basically all of us are probably, at least maybe not always throughout the entire span of our life, but at some point we could be diagnosed with something in the DSM. So there's no shame in getting help, but the person who would need the diagnosis has to be the one driving it, or else it's just not helpful.
Speaker 1:I remember I guess it was like 12 years ago now. It was when they just had added a new item into the dsm, which they've probably added several since then, but it was like this overarching diagnosis, uh, and I can't remember what the word was, but it was basically like difficulty adjusting to new situations, adjustment disorder, adjustment disorder. Yeah, yes, exactly yeah. I just remember being taught like this one's kind of the and it's the catch-all and they in counseling school.
Speaker 2:They're like if somebody doesn't meet the criteria for PTSD but they seem to be having a hard time adjusting because of some live event. You can diagnose them with adjustment disorder and some I mean there's a lot of politics that go into that, because sometimes you need a diagnosis in order for the insurance to pick up the bill.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean, that's what I was about to say. Like, because you mentioned at the beginning of the episode. There's this, these talks in the counseling world of like. Is it even helpful to diagnose people? Can you expand more on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know where I work in the private practice world and where I went to school where most people were going into private practice or at least that's probably their longer term goal. There's a lot of discussion about what people really need be once they're healed and to lean into that and that a diagnosis might actually get them focused on their own psychopathology and actually hold them back.
Speaker 2:And now there are probably people in the medical world that would say that doesn't, that doesn't. Maybe that works in the counseling world but that's probably not going to work in in in their realm. But there's a lot of people that think that diagnoses can hold people back more than it can help them.
Speaker 1:I could see that. I'm thinking about a friend of mine who she struggled with several different things but her husband for sure leaned into her labels and was just like, oh well, she's just a sick individual because she was struggling with depression and anxiety and some other things and then. But then he just ended up seeing her that way and then she ended up staying stuck in this cycle too, like she was already struggling. But then to have your spouse also kind of on top of that, have your spouse also kind of on top of that, continue that narrative Kind of reinforce your lack of self-worth, right yeah?
Speaker 2:Or people begin to believe that they aren't capable of things that other people would be capable of because of their diagnosis. So you don't want it to be a self-limiting thing and you don't want it to be an others limiting thing, where you're placing a limitation on somebody else and you don't want it to be an others limiting thing where you're placing a limitation on somebody else.
Speaker 2:And you know, along those same lines I was thinking of, I've had some marriage helper clients saying things that just seemed unreal to me and I was hurt and I was angry because of what was going on in the marriage and I talked too much, and one of the things I said to people who really it was none of their business was I think he might have a psychotic disorder. Well, now she's poisoned the well. So when their marriage started to turn around and they started coming back together, she has damage control to do from the things that she was out there saying. And it doesn't mean I also talk to a lot of marriage helper clients who could probably use an extra confidant or two to really talk to these things about. They're just very, very isolated and so sometimes we talk about how to resource them in that regard. But the other mistake that you can make is to talk too much and speculate too much about things that you really don't know about and then regret it later.
Speaker 1:And I haven't I mean, I haven't really had this with like diagnosing other people with mental health disorders. It's more so been like my own health concerns that I like to try and find, you know, Google, and so it's like my mom, my dad, my husband there's like my three people that when I feel myself spiraling about those things, I call and they are able to talk me off a ledge, and so, you know, in the terms of marriage crisis, it's finding those people who can talk you off a ledge and hold hope with you and not like feed into your spiraling.
Speaker 2:And maybe even say you know, like faithful are the wounds of a friend, like I know you're really hurt but I think you're saying things that are unfounded. We at least need to wait for the proper medical professional to make that kind of diagnosis.
Speaker 1:Do you think that most people's friends are that wise?
Speaker 2:Well, and a lot of us have a hard time taking that kind of feedback. Yeah, yeah, if you want to have good friends, you have to be a good friend sometimes. Yeah, but I am sometimes refreshingly surprised at how well some of my clients can take feedback like that. You know, I'm always trying to like package it in a little positive sandwich, but some of them are like that's a really good point. I need to let that work be their work and I need to stay in my lane.
Speaker 1:That's really good, okay, so what are the key takeaways you would want someone to have from this conversation?
Speaker 2:I think the main thing I would want to say is I understand the need to try to explain stuff that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2:I get that and you know that's what draws us to seek out help, and there are lots of really good sources of help out there.
Speaker 2:I think speculating on a diagnosis for someone besides yourself without the proper you know medical authorities there to help you is it can take you down a really dangerous path.
Speaker 2:Path and my encouragement to you would be that I don't think you're ever going to find an explanation that's going to make some of the nonsense that is going on, because I coach with about 20 clients a week and there's just a lot of nonsense going. There's a lot of crazy making stuff going on out there, and I don't think you're ever going to get an explanation that's going to be like oh, now I totally understand why my spouse is doing these crazy things that they're doing. That is not where you're going to find your peace. You're going to find your peace by continuing to work on yourself and do the things that you need to do to be the best version of yourself, to be a relationally healthy person, that type of thing. So I get it and I would just really caution the hazard that's there and that you want to put some boundaries around that need to try to find answers where maybe it's okay to kind of live with some uncertainty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I think that's super wise. Okay, well, we're going to dive in to our next episode about narcissism, but for those currently listening, this is the end of this week's episode. Tune back in next week as we pick up talking about narcissism. And what do you do if your spouse has said that you're a narcissist? And what if you think your spouse is a narcissist? We're going to dive into that until next week. Remember, there is always hope.
.png)
.png)
