Marriage Helper LIVE - December 10, 2025

This episode is from the Marriage Helper LIVE Call-In Show from December 10, 2025. Marriage Helper LIVE airs live on YouTube, every Wednesday at Noon CT. To listen in or have a chance to call into the show, you can head to https://youtube.com/@marriagehelper

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Transcript

Sacred Intimacy Announcement

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, I'm Dr. Joe Beam, and this beautiful young woman here is my lovely daughter, Kimberly, who is also our CEO here at Mary Chopper, who happens to be drinking from a cup that says Dolly.

SPEAKER_09 0:12

Dolly for president.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

You may have figured out by now that we are in Middle Tennessee and we are fans of Dolly Parton. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_09 0:21

Who wouldn't be? Who wouldn't? It's great.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

That's right.

SPEAKER_09 0:24

It's great.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

That's right. I wish I could live up to the name of that song, Joe Lean. Why would you want to live up to the name of Joe Lean? So it would be Joe who is lean.

SPEAKER_09 0:35

She was a husband stealer. Oh, I'm sorry.

What The Course Includes And Bonuses

Openness About Sex And Teaching Background

SPEAKER_01 0:39

I just want to be the lean Joe of the Spotify at that point. Let me start off with something quite unusual and very different than what we normally do. Because of the fact that a lot of the questions that we have received over the years about marriage difficulties have involved sexual difficulties, we have developed a product that is just to help a marriage with their sexual situation. Now realize if your marriage is in crisis and you're not having sex with each other at all, what I'm about to say may not appeal to you whatsoever. But if sex is one of the things that you're arguing about or having difficulties with in your marriage, what I'm about to say may be of great interest to you. And if you know a young married couple, for example, that you want to give a good Christmas present to, um, say your grown children or whatever, you can give them this product if you wish, and it will benefit their marriage when it comes to sex. Now, remember that my PhD, my doctorate degree was earned at the University of Sydney in Australia, where I researched and studied the causes of and correlations between marital satisfaction and sexual satisfaction. Uh, twice I've been on NBC's Today Show talking about sex, particularly from a Christian viewpoint. I also taught for eight years in the psychology department at a Christian university where I taught human sexuality. So let me tell you what this product is and how you can get it if you wish. It's actually not available today. It'll be available next week. Therefore, if you wanted for a Christmas present, you can go ahead and get it today. Now, explain it very quickly and then we'll move on to doing what we normally do, which is to take calls and talk to people about their difficulties they're having in their marriage. Now, we're calling this one Sacred Intimacy, and it's 12 videos. And each uh of the videos is approximately a half hour, approximately. But altogether, all total, there are seven and a half hours of videos. You start in verse in number one and work all the way through to number 12. And in that, I start off with the very basics, like let me teach you some things anatomically that you probably don't know about your own body or about your spouse's body. And to go all the way through in it several times, I'll say, stop the video. Now there's a PDF you download, and we will measure things such as whether one or both of you may be sexually inhibited, uh, sexual compatibility between the two of you. If one of you wants to do something sexually that the other one is hesitant or just flat out doesn't want to do, we have a profile you can work through there to figure out whether or not it might be beneficial to try it or absolutely a disaster if you try it. In other words, it's extremely comprehensive. We have in the past have sold this for$399, but as our year-in special, we're gonna cut that to$199. But let me give you a special offer if you're interested in buying it for yourself or for someone else. And that's this. Uh we have a landing page, and that landing page is not complete. But but even though it's incomplete, you can go ahead and order this on the landing page if you will. If you order this before the landing page is done, or even before December 31st, here's a couple of things that you can get in addition. One is in January, I'm gonna be doing a two-hour online seminar. And people who get this before the end of the year, even if you buy it for somebody else, you can be in the seminar if you wish. In that seminar, I'm gonna be talking about sex, but I'm gonna be answering questions, uh, all kinds of questions, no boundaries on the questions that people can ask in that two-hour seminar. And the only people that'll be invited to it are the people who buy this product before the end of the year. Now, if you buy it before our landing page is complete, which will be sometime next week, we're gonna put you in a drawing. And from all of those who buy this before the landing page is complete, which might be Monday or Tuesday of next week, we're gonna have a drawing, and I'm gonna draw at the computer draw, actually. The computer is gonna draw three names. And I'm gonna give each of those three a 45-minute consulting session with me personally. Now, Kimberly can tell you that we normally charge, and this is not the hype, this is what we actually charge, we actually charge$1,500 for a 45-minute session with me personally. But if you're one of those three that will be drawn by the computer, you'll get that absolutely for free. Now, that's if you buy the product before the landing page is complete next Monday or Tuesday. Now, we know that several hundred people watch this live, but thousands watch it a little bit later. And even if you're the thousands or one of the thousands who will be watching this later, as long as you can get this done before the landing page, you will be put into that batch and the computer will draw three. And so the price for this,$199. The bonus, two-hour seminar with me about sex. Other bonus, if you buy it in time, you'll be put into the drawing list, and the computer will pick three people I'll spend 45 minutes with in consultation just with you. Now, the landing page, I guess we can put it up in the in the notes there, right? Uh Jason, I almost called him Jared. Can you everyone does? You can go to he's going to put a BTS link up there that you can go to. I'm going to give you a longer link. Your dot marriagehelper.com slash sacred dash intimacy. That's your.marriagehelper.com slash sacred dash intimacy. Now that's the long version, or you can look there in the notes and there's the short version, the bit.ly version. But if you buy now, then we're going to help you in the ways that I just said. Now, if this is not the product for you, don't worry about it. But if it is, now's the time to do it while it's half off and gets all these benefits with it. Well, Kimberly, there's my Christmas commercial.

SPEAKER_09 6:46

I love it. It's hard to know who to trust about sex and what a great solution or resource, even to say, to know that you can go to someone who has a Christian background, Christian beliefs, and also can help with your sex life. And that's about all I'm going to say about it, because it's my dad. So we can just move right along.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

We will say this. When I was teaching human sexuality at Lipscomb University, which is a Christian university of some renown, Kimberly was in the first human sexuality class I taught. And as we were discussing a particular aspect of the female anatomy, one of the other young ladies in the class looked at Kimberly and said, Is this like freaking you out?

SPEAKER_09 7:34

To which Kimberly replied, No, at my house, this is dinner conversation.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

We've always taught our children openly.

SPEAKER_09 7:44

Yes. Well, and it was even more so when you were going through your PhD program because you were sharing about things you were learning and you would bring your friends.

Caller Marie: Divorce Threats And Trauma

SPEAKER_01 7:53

I would bring my friends. She'd bring her friends over to ask me questions about sex. All right, let's get to a call.

SPEAKER_09 7:58

Sounds great. Let's go to Marie from Sacramento. Marie, how can we help you today?

SPEAKER_08 8:04

Hi, yes. Good morning. Well, it's morning here in Sacramento. I'm not sure what the time is where you guys are.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

It's slightly afternoon. How may we help you?

SPEAKER_08 8:13

Okay. Yes, I just have a question in regards to where I should What I can now is my husband and I, we've been married for 16 years, known each other for 20. Um he wants to file for a divorce. He said that about two weeks ago. Um we've done a lot of things together, which it was kind of a rocky start to begin with. It was kind of one of those where I think he was forced to get married. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_08 8:42

He did explain because his background of Christianity.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Are you saying that you slept together and therefore he felt he should marry you?

SPEAKER_08 8:54

Uh he had to marry me because I would not be accepted into the family.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Okay, I'm I'm not understanding.

SPEAKER_08 9:05

Well, we got married. Um we did like each other, we were dating, we were best friends in the beginning, and it started off rocky because I this was my second marriage. Didn't want to get married to him. But because we were best friends and I was falling for him, I did get married with him. Really rocky church. Um we did a lot of things for church, everything was based around it. Um the divorce just came up about two, three weeks ago because it always came up at every argument because he has trauma and he had learned that the reason why he married me is because he was looking for a mother's love.

SPEAKER_09 9:51

Okay. So he has not been married before, you have been married before, but he's the one who's been bringing divorce and every argument for 16 years.

SPEAKER_08 10:00

Both of us because I I see it as if you're not happy, I obviously can't make you happy. I obviously can't have kids with you because I have my own kids in your marriage. And all of that was made out. He understood it. I did get pregnantly lost. It's just been really hard where I'm just really training. However, I don't know where what to do because of the situation of him saying that he's fighting for divorce that it was two, three weeks ago, and haven't heard anything about it. We are living roommate now, separate rooms. We do conversate here and there just about dinner. We used to go to movies every Thursday that have talked as of last week because he doesn't want to do things with me anymore.

SPEAKER_09 10:56

Why does he want to divorce?

SPEAKER_08 11:00

Because he started understanding that he did not really understand himself, he didn't know his ide his own identity. I don't know, it's a whole lot of mixed up trauma, everything from everything he's learning about being a man, how he can't take care of me because that's what God says, and he's supposed to be the provider. But all of this, we already knew this in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

So where are this coming from? If he's saying this now, who's putting this in his head?

SPEAKER_08 11:32

You know what, and that's a great question that I have because I don't even know who well I do kind of in a sense. I know he spoke with his parents and told them that he's filing for a divorce. And I know his mom never accepted me.

SPEAKER_09 11:48

It seems like there's something you're not telling us. Like I feel like you're dancing around it, and that's fine if you don't want to share it on on the on the call, but it seems like you're dancing around something that would help us understand all of this.

SPEAKER_08 12:04

Okay, I don't really know. I I really don't know what to say. I just know my husband told me that this is why he feels that we should get a divorce, is because he just never really loved me. I I really don't know. I don't know where to go from. We've gone to marriage accounting, we've done meetings with pastors, like none of that has ever helped. It just made it seem like the fault was on him. Like he the judgment was on him. And I don't think that was fair.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Do you want to save this marriage?

SPEAKER_08 12:44

I do. I want to save the marriage because what we had prior to being married was awesome. Like everything was amazing. We did everything. We had so much fun. We got married, we did everything, and next thing you know, he just feels that.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

So you're trying to recapture something that occurred more than 16 years ago, is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_08 13:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 13:10

You also said you didn't want to get married 16 years ago.

SPEAKER_08 13:15

And that the reason you didn't want to Go ahead, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_09 13:19

And the reason you did was so that you would be accepted into his family home by his parents, but now you're saying his parents are the ones who want who are encouraging him to get a divorce.

SPEAKER_08 13:30

In the beginning, his We got married, and I told him, Yes, that's correct, because if you're gonna live in my household, if we're gonna sleep together, I do agree with that because I don't agree with having intimacy, you know, intimacy out of wedlock. I grew up as a Catholic and that's how I that's I strongly stand by it. So I did that and I started calling for him, I started doing things, we started getting along. We do have like a we do have a rocky marriage. It's just Rocky why I open up what's Rocky because he just doesn't know how he does I don't want to say he doesn't want know how to communicate, he just feels like he doesn't know how to talk to me.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Okay, so you're open and transparent with him, but he's not open and transparent with you. Is that because he feels that you're judgmental or that you don't accept him as he is, or that you would react negatively if he told you what he really f thought or felt?

SPEAKER_08 14:25

I think it's more of because I try to explain to him that those are all negative feedbacks. Why don't we just focus on what we want? Wait, what? Versus what anybody else tells you.

SPEAKER_09 14:34

Oh, that okay, what other people are saying to him about your relationship are negative. Okay, you're trying to protect the okay, got that makes sense. Is he upset? You you mentioned earlier, you said it in passing, you have kids. Did he want to have kids with you? He did. Is that a big issue?

SPEAKER_08 14:56

It had been until he got over it, I suppose, three years ago.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Okay, so what I'm hearing is this that when he tells you what other people say, do you think there's a possibility that he's quoting them or referring to them because of the fact that that's a safer way, emotionally speaking, for him to tell you what he actually feels? And that when you respond by explaining it away, don't listen to them, etc., that if he indeed is disguising what he really feels by using them to explain it, then you're dismissing what he feels. You think that's a possibility?

SPEAKER_08 15:34

I mean, it could be. I I he has I've just been really confused right now. There's so much going on.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Mm-hmm. Are you the dominant person in the relationship?

SPEAKER_08 15:44

Uh no, we kind of both are.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

But he's not open and transparent at all.

SPEAKER_08 15:52

He can be, but not to an extent.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Okay. And so what it sounds like is that he's afraid to tell you what he really thinks or feels. What's he afraid of?

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Who's he afraid of?

SPEAKER_08 16:09

Well, I just know that his childhood it was abuse, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Is he afraid of you?

SPEAKER_08 16:17

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Is he afraid of your is he afraid of your judgment? Your your criticism?

SPEAKER_08 16:24

I that I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Has he ever said that or indicated that in any fashion?

SPEAKER_08 16:33

Um he's brought it up in the past where if he expressed himself and I am guilty of that, where I try to be more of a positive, I didn't know how to actually express because we both come from trauma, childhood trauma. And I didn't not know how to express that, but I just wanted to be more on the positive side versus the negative, because he can be negative.

Validating Feelings And Building Safety

SPEAKER_09 16:55

Okay. Just because you both come from traumatic backgrounds doesn't mean that you have to stay stuck in that controlling your life. And so I believe, Marie, the best thing that that you have to do, hopefully him as well, but the best thing you have to do is forge a way forward in how you can figure out how to stop doing the things that are pushing him away and start doing the things to pull him back and not let the trauma be an excuse. Now, trauma is real, it has to be dealt with, but it kind of sounds like it hasn't been, it hasn't been dealt with. And instead of trying to actually deal with some of those things, it's been pushed down and said, hey, let's just, let's just be happy and optimistic and not think about those things. And at some point, it it's not necessarily that you have to live in that, live in that past and allow it to can allow it to just dominate what's happening, but by not dealing with it, you're allowing it to dominate and control what's happening. And so, regardless of what's happened in the past, it's about what do you do now? It sounds to me like your husband is scared of you in some way, scared to be open, scared to be transparent, scared to be honest. I wonder, I just have to wonder if the fact that he entered into the relationship wanting kids and you said, I already had my own, like how that has affected him, how that's affected him to feel like there's even that level of intimacy he can't get to with you. And a loss of a dream that perhaps he's even had. I think there's hurt that's happened over the years that hasn't been properly addressed. And so at this point, you said he's wanted a divorce. You said you've gone to marriage counseling and it hasn't necessarily worked. Do you think he would be willing to do one more thing with you to try and make it work?

SPEAKER_08 18:55

He doesn't want to do any. We we had we had talked about it recently in October. He agreed to it, but come November, we just came back from a cruise, we had a great time. He said he doesn't want to do counseling, he doesn't want to do any of those classes, any tutorials, nothing, because he feels like everyone's gonna judge him.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Mm-hmm.

Caller Cassidy: Parenting Boundaries And Unity

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Because he feels judged. Here's a suggestion, if I may. You say that whenever he says whatever those he it sounds to me that he's actually disguising his own emotions, his own feelings by quoting other people, and you say, Don't listen to them, don't listen to them, but he's telling you what he really feels, but it makes it easier for him to use them as the uh conveyance for that. And then you say, Well, but I try to stay positive. He says these negative things, and I stay positive. That's basically a denial of what you're doing. If if a person were to say, for example, I hurt, and you say, Oh, no, no, don't hurt. We have some good things going for us, that person feels rejected. And so I'm not trying to make you a villain by any shape, fashion, or form, but I'm recommending this. Please, whenever he does open up with you, when he finally says something, even if he appears to be quoting whoever, that you say, help me understand how you feel about that. And do not reply. Don't say that's bad. Don't say that's good. Don't say that's anything. Just say, help me understand more. And listen. Genuinely, deeply listen. Now, uh, Kimberly, if they were if he were decided to come to our workshop, he certainly wouldn't feel ridiculed by our people. No, not at all. And so we'd love for you to consider that, if you will. I'm not trying to make a sale here, but I'm telling you, we have a way to help you figure this out. And and how would they contact us to find out about them? Yeah, they can I don't know what the new I don't know what the new link is now.

SPEAKER_09 20:48

Uh yes. So we have something we'll put in the chat. It's a link that you can, there's some questions that you can answer so that we can make sure you get to the right person and then you can book a call to speak with someone on our team.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yeah, at least go look at that, if you will, because I think we can really help you here. But even though you don't mean to and intend to, I think you're shutting this guy down. And and he's not being open and honest enough to tell you that. That's what I think is going on.

SPEAKER_09 21:12

Mm-hmm. I agree. But we do believe that there is hope, Marie, and we would love to help in every way that we can.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Mm-hmm. Okay, then we need to go to Cassidy in Texas.

SPEAKER_09 21:24

Let's go to Cassidy in Texas. How can we help you today, Cassidy?

SPEAKER_07 21:30

Oh, yes. I was wondering how to help make the least amount of damage to your children and to your family unit when you are the standing spouse and uh you're on the M in smart contact, but uh you keep getting past it kind of seeming like reconciliation and you don't know why, but there's random outbursts from the spouse, and it's just it's it's not helping. And it it worries so much, like, for example, the one, the 14-year-old child won't be able to play with the younger two children the PlayStation they're getting for Christmas. So um I do coach and I'm thankful for coaching. You guys have done a great job in the program since November of last year, and uh it's helped me a lot. But this this is one of those uh standing pushes. I've done a few, right? But this one is is it's more difficult. And so I'm trying to understand, you know, what are the right standing pushes and how to create the least amount of damage, no matter you know what the outcome is. Obviously, your standing, so you want it to work, but but sometimes maybe it's not meant to. I don't know with that yet. But anyway, yeah, thank you all for the work you do.

SPEAKER_09 22:27

Thank you, Cassidy. Really appreciate that. So, really, your question is when your husband is doing things that are making things worse, but you are intentionally they're gonna be pushes, but they're standing, they're they're what we call those pushes, the essential pushes, the necessary pushes that are needed. Um, how do you handle it when it just creates further chaos and havoc with your with your husband? Is that right?

SPEAKER_07 22:54

Yes, I think that's a good good way to put it too, and create the least amount of damage to anybody. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 22:58

Yeah, and he's taking it out on the kids.

unknown 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 23:01

How old are your kids, Cassidy?

SPEAKER_07 23:04

Fourteen, nine, and six.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Is the fourteenth uh you're all a male?

SPEAKER_08 23:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Okay. And you feel that your husband's punishing him.

SPEAKER_08 23:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

And the children, are you guys still living together?

SPEAKER_07 23:22

We had a separation for a bit, um, not by my choice, but also it was one that uh we agreed neutral for a little bit because he's a little too hot-headed and afraid he would get physical. So in that situation, he needed to be uh make sure he would not be able to read, you know, to a point he can verbal's one thing, physical's a whole new level. So you need to excuse yourself because you have a mental uh ability to not be physical.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

So where does he live now?

SPEAKER_07 23:48

Where do you get we've uh so that was uh been the problem since November of 24 and July of 25? We had uh uh like a month where we just we weren't together much. So he's there now.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

He's living there now. Yeah, so since September we're okay, and you're saying that that there's a a a PlayStation coming, and he's saying that the 14-year-old can't play with it, but the younger kids can.

SPEAKER_07 24:13

Why uh not really any good reason, but I I've also accepted his point of view, you know, and and made it clear that that I see where he's coming from, but I want to create the least amount of damage to anybody. He feels like the 14-year-old has created damage to him because he got him a one we got him a one-wheel last year and a piano, and he hasn't used the one will or the piano much, and so he feels like it's it's almost like his way of retaliation to the 14-year-old, but it's a 14-year-old. And I don't want alienation or damage in the family, you know. So I'm trying to work through that, and I've said that very clearly, very nicely, very much worked with it on my with my coach, you know, those kind of things.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

So right now, what you're wanting to do is protect the emotions of the 14-year-old. Yes. Okay. And you're asking us what's the best way to do that? Is that the question? I understand.

SPEAKER_07 25:00

Yes. Yes, I think at the heart at the end of the day, that is the question. There's there's there's a bigger, you know, we had to word it such a way, but yeah. And if that is that.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Does the 14-year-old understand that this is going to occur?

SPEAKER_07 25:11

No, I have not said anything. My coach said he would see how it plays out. Um, and so I I thought about saying something to the 14-year-olds, but I but I haven't yet, because I that is another case of the thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

How do you believe that the 14-year-old is going to react emotionally?

SPEAKER_07 25:27

He would I mean who he would feel discluded. He would feel alienated. I mean, I think it would be.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Okay, so what you really want is for your husband to do something where that indeed the boy would focus on the things he's supposed to do, but at the same time not feel left out. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_07 25:43

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Like at first it was the thing that's if you say something to your husband about that, how's he going to react?

SPEAKER_07 25:51

I have, and he's just like, I'm firm on this. He's not gonna play it.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Okay. And are you going to accept that?

SPEAKER_07 25:59

Well, and that's where I'm having a hard time trying to figure out the best way to stand because I do think it's unacceptable.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

So that's where I'm having to. Do you think it's gonna have long-term effect or damage on the board and that I've went over with my coach, and I'm trying to go with no, because there's bigger things, right?

SPEAKER_07 26:19

Uh but if I may ask, who's your coach?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

We we have great coaches. Who's your coach?

SPEAKER_07 26:23

You well, actually, I've coached with Nathan. I've coached with uh I've coached with everybody, actually. Uh they're great. My current coach is Benny. I think he's absolutely more of a fit for me, a little bit older, and so I think a little more um not saying nobody else, they're great. They're all great. So I do particularly coaches.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

And so, Kimberly, what I hear is this. She doesn't want to cause any more difficulty with the husband if she can help it. Yet at the same time, she feels that the boy's gonna be mistreated by this. She's torn between whether it's gonna be a major or a minor effect on the boy. But if I'm hearing it correctly, she's leaning toward the major.

SPEAKER_09 27:01

But she doesn't want to admit it.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

So, what would you recommend?

SPEAKER_09 27:06

I mean, they're in, they're living together, right? So we have to take into account what their current marriage situation is. So it seems like they're on the road to reconciliation to in to some extent. Um, I would try and sit down and and speak with him and say, hey, let me uh and and and it and it seems like there is a reason that her it's not that he's just pure, but she also indicated that he's vindictive. Sure. So helping him try to understand that. This is a hard one because as parents, you have to be, you need to be unified as much as possible. When you're reconciling a one with the ways you build trust together is by doing things like this in unity. I think they have to get on board with what this is going to look like as a unified front.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

I concur. Has Vinny uh talked to you about the uh oh compromise circle?

SPEAKER_07 28:02

Uh I no, I don't believe. I would love to, he may have, and I didn't get the memo that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Ask Vinny. Ask Vinny to because we don't have time here. But we have a thing that that is powerful about how to compromise, where each person feels that they got what they wanted. And Vinny can help teach you that. Now, typically we don't have our coaches teach. Have you and your husband by any chance been through our workshop?

SPEAKER_07 28:28

I've been through the workshop. Um, he has not, he refuses to acknowledge um, even when he left, he refuses to say that you know, oh, there's a problem, but I'm just coming back.

Compromise Tools And Workshop Path

SPEAKER_01 28:39

So when you went to the workshop, you actually were exposed to the to the compromise circle. Okay, and so I'm gonna look through all my workshops. Okay, look at that, and then get they need to help you understand it again, and then try that with your husband. I think if there's any possibility of doing it, it's gonna be with that compromise circle. And and that's it's extremely powerful. You are exposed to it in the workshop. You they need to help you remember it again. And I think if you can get him to participate in that, and it's where he won't lose, but you won't lose either, that you can find a solution to this. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 29:11

Okay. Compromise circle, and that's in the workshop materials. Is there any other place, Vinny and workshop materials, any other place that is or that I can uh really you know hone in and try to make or understand and implement?

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Believe it or not, we actually talk about it more than uh Goblin does. So, yes, in our materials where you're gonna find it, and Vinny can help you, okay? He can do it.

SPEAKER_07 29:32

Okay. And then look through the workshop. Got it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Cassidy. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

For those that are not aware, if you come to the workshop, be the solo workshop or the couples workshop, we use some material by John Gottman, who is a relationship guru. Most of our workshop is based on our material. But we also use some material by Gottman and some material by Sternberg, because those are brilliant men. Uh, not just the fact that they're men, they're brilliant people who study a lot about relationships and love and those kinds of things. And so we insert some of their material in our workshop. Um, and again, most of the material is ours, but we do that. And if you have trouble compromising in the sense of, oh, well, if we compromise, somebody loses. If you come to the workshop, and we hope you come through as a couple, because that's the best version of the workshop. And we hope that you uh you can do it online if you need to do that, because we have people from all over the world do the online workshop. And if you can come to Natural, I think that's even better for you. The workshop online is great. Uh, the workshop in Natural is a little bit better because of the fact that you get to interact with us personally. We're here, and we would love you to do that. But that's where you can learn how to do a compromise system that deals with nearly everything so that you both come out feeling that, hey, I I didn't lose, that we got something here that worked for both of us. And if you want to know more about that, tell me again, Jason. I'm sorry. You go to marriagehelper.com slash apply. Okay, marriagehelper.com slash apply. I'm gonna rest a while. I'm tired.

SPEAKER_09 31:11

Well, it's a perfect time to go to Michael's motivational minute. Michael, we'll head over to you.

Motivational Minute: Building Step By Step

SPEAKER_00 31:19

For years, it's been rumored that in our little town, they're going to be building one of my favorite restaurants. And a few months ago, they began to till up the ground. And then a few weeks after that, they laid a foundation. And a few weeks after that, they began to build out the framework of studs of the the inside and the outside of the building. But it was really only this week when they began to put some tiles on the outside, when they began to paint some of the building a particular color, and you could see what they were doing on the inside and the outside. And I could say, yes, okay, that's the restaurant that I've been looking forward to. Some of you are in different areas of rebuilding the life that you've envisioned for yourself. Some of you've just come to us, and it felt like your life has been tilled up and the ground's been torn up. Some of you have been able to lay a strong foundation by watching our YouTube videos or our podcast, participating in the live events that we've been having like this. Some of you have been able to build a strong uh framework uh around your marriage and your own heart and your own mind and your own life because of attending one of our workshops. We want to encourage you. The life that you've envisioned for yourself may not look exactly where you want it to be right now. It may not look exactly like that perfect uh building that you've been building, but you're working the steps, you're working your pies, you're learning to control what you can control. Uh, you are uh entering into a community of people that love you, that care for you, that want the best for you, and that are here to help you. That's what Marriage Helper is able to do. So I want to challenge you today. Maybe take that next step. Book a workshop, talk to a coach, join one of our community calls, whatever it is, I want to encourage you, take that next step as you are building a new foundation, as you're building a new framework, as you're working towards the life that you envision for yourself and for your marriage. We're here to walk with you every step of the way.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Am I the only person frustrated he didn't say which restaurant it was?

Caller Shannon: Suspected Emotional Affair

SPEAKER_09 33:30

I know, but you know what? No free advertising. They've got to pay us if they want us to be a sponsor. I don't even know. What restaurant would I be so excited about? None, because I'm not a chain restaurant person.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

I'm not either, but that was a very good point. A step at a time, a step at a time. Brilliant point. Thank you, sir. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 33:49

Well, let's head over to Shannon from Texas and answer her question. Shannon, how can we help you today?

SPEAKER_05 33:57

I just had a question. Um I think my husband and mine have had an emotional affair a couple years ago with my sister. And I just didn't know how to bring that conversation up with him. We have had that conversation before, but he gets super defensive and shuts down and um threatens to leave, and then I get scared and beg him not to because I have fear. So and I just hope that I'm like right about it, but I've seen hundreds of text messages because she's on she was on my call log and I saw that they were going back and forth a lot, but all the messages have been deleted on both ends. And uh what were the messages about that you saw? Um so I didn't see the actual messages, I just saw that they were communicating because she was on my phone plan.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

And so you're in the case.

SPEAKER_05 34:50

I just saw that they were texting a lot.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 34:53

Was it around your birthday? Did they throw a surprise party? Like was there something that in that they could have been talking about that made sense?

SPEAKER_05 35:02

No, because this has been going on for like I want to say like eight years, and I told them to stop a long, long time ago and they didn't. And so I felt disrespected because I found out that they they were doing it again and it happened multiple times where I would tell them to stop and they wouldn't stop.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

So you're talking to your sister.

SPEAKER_05 35:25

I haven't I have not talked to my sister AI is quiet. Um I don't know. I'm just I'm just I just have a lot of fear. I feel like she I feel like he will get mad.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

If you had a conversation with your sister where rather than confronting her, which means people always get defensive. If you confront your husband, he's gonna get defensive. That's what people do. But rather than confronting her, you just sit down and said, Let me tell you about a fear I have. And and the fear I have is that you are more involved with my husband than etc. How would that conversation go, do you think?

SPEAKER_05 36:12

And I also know he I know he was sending her money. And I found that on our statement, and I'm sending me though he didn't tell me that he was sending her money. Um, like sixty bucks, fifty bucks here and there. And then I asked him, you know, what the text messages were about, and he just said, Oh, whenever she needs help, I help her. She's but she's on drugs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. And he's a really he's a really nice and giving person.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

So as far as you know, I don't know if I'm making as far as you know, it really may be he's trying to help her with her addiction.

SPEAKER_05 36:44

I don't I don't know. But I know that he downloaded Snapchat and um that's her favorite app, and I I think they were communicating through that because I saw on his email um search bar that he looked up her name and the word Snapchat at one point. I just don't understand why somebody would want to contact somebody so much. If are you and your sister close? No, we're not.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

If you actually talk to her, what would happen?

SPEAKER_05 37:20

I don't know what she would tell me. I do know that a long time ago when this first started happening, I saw him texting her saying, Good morning, beautiful, and she sent a picture of herself fully clothed to him at one point, and then I think there was a message about our relationship. But I just don't want to make the wrong decision if nothing happened. So I don't know if it's like a insecurity.

SPEAKER_09 37:45

And you actually saw that like an insecurity.

SPEAKER_05 37:47

You see him send that you saw that with your eyes.

SPEAKER_09 37:51

We're not gonna ask how you saw it, but we know you saw it in seconds.

SPEAKER_05 37:54

This was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_09 37:55

I mean, how how long? Eight years ago?

SPEAKER_05 37:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 38:01

I mean, that's not good.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Are you accusing your husband of having an affair with your sister?

SPEAKER_05 38:09

That's what I think happened. I think it might have been I hope that it was not physical, but I think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Is there any missing time? Like you don't know where he is for uh an hour or two at a time.

SPEAKER_05 38:21

Does she live close? There would be She does live close. She lives about twenty minutes. Okay, but is there missing time? There's been times where he has gone to his friends at nighttime a couple of times a week, but and you think he's always done that, which is I don't know. I hope not.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Okay, here's my suggestion, Shannon. Rather than confronting him, because confronting always makes the other person defensive. It's just what people do. They get confronted, they get defensive. Just be open enough to say, let me tell you how I feel. I worry about this. It's it scares me. And and I have some incidences here that seem to f uh uh to indicate that this is what's happening, but at the same time, I'm not accusing you of that because I don't have any definite proof. And so I'm asking you, as your wife who loves you and that you love me, uh, please give me the assurance I need. And one of the assurances I need is that you not be communicating with my sister whatsoever. Not as a demand, like if you do that, this is what's gonna happen. There may be a time for that, and that time may be coming, but I'm saying right now it would be more of, will you do this for me? Have no more communication with her because I worry about this. How do you think he would react if you do that?

SPEAKER_05 39:46

Um, I think that he would I mean he's already he's already told me that he stopped communication with her.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

And has he?

SPEAKER_05 39:57

Um, as far as I know, I don't I don't. No a hundred percent, you know, because I know that there's there's ways around that on a phone.

SPEAKER_09 40:04

So your your issue is you don't trust him.

SPEAKER_05 40:09

Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't trust him. I know one I know one time about five years ago, he did meet up with her early in the morning to to help her move her storage building, but he didn't tell me that until after he got home.

SPEAKER_09 40:21

I mean that's not great, but that was five years ago, eight years ago. What has happened in the past three months that you know has happened?

SPEAKER_05 40:35

Um I know that she texted his phone and said, Hey, uh I know you don't know who this is, but maybe you can't say who this is right now. Insinuating that. Yeah, she sent she did send him a text and said And the reason you know she sent that text is for Did he let you see the text? No, he did not. So you're probably I found it on my own.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 41:04

Yeah.

Calculative Trust And Clear Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Sounds to me, Shannon, like you're doing everything you can to make yourself even more paranoid about this, you know, sneaking, looking, etc. Just tell him up front, look, what I need is the ability to trust you. And and it may all be me. It may all be my paranoia because you think it's, you know, that you're you're saying you haven't done this. But what I need is reassurance. And so I need access to your phone, I need access to your emails, etc., etc., just so I can, and and not forever, maybe just for the next nine, ten, twelve months, just so I can have some kind of peace with this. But Kennedy, you're gonna have to be able to figure this trust thing out because either A, you are very paranoid, or B, he's really doing it and you're catching him. And and the only way to decide which one of those two things it is is to develop a system with which he needs to agree. We call it calculative trust so that you build a system so that you can trust him. And calculative trust needs that where you can see what he is doing. You know where the money goes, you know where the time goes, you know what's on his phone, you know what's in his email, etc., etc. And and if you could sit down without attacking him, but telling him up front, this is what I need, would you please do this for me? And if he agrees, it'll settle everything. If he disagrees, then there's more things to look into. And and uh I think that at some point you need to have a similar conversation with your sister, not attacking her, but letting her know what you feel and that you don't appreciate that. And and so rather than sitting in the background and worrying yourself to death, which is definitely not good for you, you take specific actions. This is what I need. Please do this for me.

SPEAKER_09 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

And and then hopefully, hopefully, then he will open up and and give you that system of calculative trust and you can pass this.

SPEAKER_09 43:05

Yeah. Hopefully. You've got you, but you have to stop assuming. There's a lot of reminiscing, ruminating on previous things and assuming current things. Don't do that. Just do exactly what Dr. Joe said. Ask. This is what I need, this is how I feel, this is what I need, and start there. If that doesn't work, call back. We'll help you work through plan B that will go from there.

Sacred Intimacy Offer Recap

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Okay. Very quickly before we go to the next call, and I you may have some other things we need to do as well. I'm just reminding you at the top of the hour, when we first started this, I mentioned our new product that is called Sacred Intimacy, which is about sex in marriage. Now, you may not be ready for that because of the situation you're in, but then again, you may, particularly if you've been arguing about sex, or you may want it for a Christmas present, maybe for your grown children or people that you know are having some sexual difficulties or that just want a better sex life. And if you go to your dot marychelfort.com slash sacred dash intimacy. Or and we're gonna put a BTL uh bitly, a bitly thing, that comes with a thing here on the screen where you can see that, and you can go to that as well. But what I've made an offer is this if you buy before December 31st, you get an invitation to a two-hour seminar with me, where we're gonna be talking about sex very openly and honestly. Nobody gets invited to that except people who buy this before December 31st. But if you buy before we finish putting that web page together, because if you go to that landing page, it's incomplete. But if you go ahead there and buy it there, which you can do right now, anybody who does that, we're gonna put into a queue, the computer's gonna pick, and three different names it picks. I'm gonna give personally a 45-minute consultation session, which we normally, and I'm not making this up, we normally charge$1,500 for that 45 minutes. But if you get to pick between those three, you'll get that for free. And so go to that site. It's 12 sessions about sex, all from a Christian perspective, but also helping overcome inhibitions to be able to have fun in the bedroom.

Caller Pat: Midlife Crisis And Limerence

SPEAKER_09 45:23

Sounds great. Let's go to our next caller, Pat from Canada. Pat, how can we help you today? Hi there.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Hi Pat.

SPEAKER_06 45:35

Hi there. How can we help you today? Um So my question is Um A year ago I found out my husband's been having an affair. The date it's been about three years with him being in his affair off and on. Um when I found out about it, D Day was last December from Christmas. Um but he told me he was no longer in the affair. And I could see that he was he had been different for both August of 2024. Um then you know, we were trying to repair. We had gone to couple therapy, individual therapy, we even did uh retrovise um with the Catholic diocese. And um at one point I caught him in the den, and I think he was talking to her on the phone and he became very scared. We had gone to on a trip and then we returned actually in the plane because he he said he wanted a divorce, and uh since then he's he's gone back to the uh that was July of this year. Okay. So he tried to repair for he he's moved out. Um he was here for a while because we have an in-law suite, but he's moved out and he's gonna have another town to live. No, so so my husband used his work in order to have this affair. Um, so he saying to me monthly that he'd have these tri so she she lives six hours away. Um so he would go and see her for a couple of days almost every month from what I was able to track. Um it's not in the open that he's with the fair partner because he he has not put her around to her family. Um the kids have never met her, his family has never met her, his friends have never met her, but he has a life with her there, and he he spent Thanksgiving with her, um, has met her family and so my husband had a scared um when he turned 51 about four years ago, um, and the doctor he he was in the hospital and the doctor said he almost died. So he had a midlife crisis event and he changed from that point. Um I think just a glimmerance from everything that I've observed. So my question is do I stand is there anything I can do while I'm trying to stand for this marriage and see if this passes I and I know I've I've heard you say yes, this will pass, but it's torturous in the meantime. Um you know, the holidays are coming. What do you recommend? Um my kids are grown, 26 and 24. Um my daughter's still home, my son has left. Um yes, we have kids, but uh only one of them.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

What's the relationship between them and their dad?

SPEAKER_06 48:38

My daughter, um very limited communication. She's um not happy with him at all. My son also limited, but he he's he's a little bit um better. Um they talk on the phone, but I think they've invited um his my son lives with his fiance, so they've invited his their father over for Thanksgiving, but that's it. Um he has not invited the kids out for dinner, he has not um invited them over to his new condo, very limited interaction, and I know that's shame and guilt. Um, and you know, he's rewritten our history saying we've been together 30 years and he's rewritten our history saying he's never loved me.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

He's yeah, that's that's very typical. All right, so he still lives in the area and the other woman lives six hours away. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_06 49:27

Yes, so he he from what I've observed, he goes to see her every other weekend, but when he goes, he goes for five or six days at a time and he'll work uh at his job from her place. Okay, you can work online.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

What do you want? Seriously.

SPEAKER_06 49:44

So I grew up Catholic and I I want to stand for my marriage. I loved our marriage. I there was nothing wrong with our marriage. I had a happy marriage, you know, and I he's he's just rewritten everything, and I'm like, that's not true. Um my old husband back is what I want.

SPEAKER_09 50:01

He's 53-ish, 51, 55.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

She's 53, is that what you said?

SPEAKER_09 50:06

Her husband is.

SPEAKER_06 50:07

He's 55 now.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

And how old is she?

SPEAKER_06 50:09

He's 55. She's 45.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Okay. So you want the marriage, he has little to nothing to do with you at this point.

SPEAKER_06 50:21

Yes, that's right. Except he only communicates for m m monetary things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

I see. And he's been involved with her for how long?

SPEAKER_06 50:31

Um almost three years. Okay. Oh, three years. Three yeah, no, over three years, but there was a period that they were not in contact for about eight months. Okay. Apparently. I I can't confirm that.

Standing Well And Solo Spouse Support

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Based on the statistics, and I realize you're not a statistic, neither is he, neither is she, but based on statistics, it's extremely rare for limeries to last more than 36 months. Uh on the long side, 48 months. Now, every once in a while, and it's extremely rare. Every once in a while it may go past 48 months, but like I said, that's so rare. It's called an anomaly. It's so rare you can't even count it statistically speaking. The fact that she lives six hours away and he's seeing her sporadically can make it go just a tad longer. But the fact that there's nothing between them anymore and he can see them anytime, see her anytime he wishes and be with her, that actually also speeds it up, meaning that the limerence doesn't last as long because one of the drivers of limerence is the fear they're not going to be together. No, so it's totally up to you. We can't tell you what to do, it's your decision, it's your life, and we certainly don't want you to live in a miserable situation. We understand that. But if you think that the man that's doing this is still in there, the good man I mean, the man that who's doing this still has the good man inside of him. And if you feel or believe that that man is worth rescuing, then yeah, standing for your marriage can definitely work out. That rewritten history, it eventually goes away if he comes back, if things work out. The fact that he cut off mostly all contact with his children, not a good sign. It means he's basically left his old world behind. And in that he's making a new world with her. Could that possibly mean that even after limerence he might stay with her? To be truthful, yes, that does indicate that possibility. It's not likely, but it is possible. I want to tell you that because we want to be real with you. We want to make sure that we always tell you the truth no matter what. Now, if you want to be able to deal with this and deal with the frustration, we can help you with that right now. And then if, if indeed at some point that begins to weaken and he begins to show some indication back toward you again, we also can step in and do something very powerfully then. But if you really want to deal with this, and forgive me for sounding like a commercial, but I I know what that thing feels like. And and I hate that anybody experiences. I would hope that you would contact us and consider the possibility of coming to one of our solo spouse workshops, which you can do online right there from where you live in Canada, and and don't have to come all the way down here. And in that solo spouse workshop, it'll be all kinds of people in the same situation that you're in, which will give you a community, people who understand, people who relate, and and often people develop friendships right there that become very powerful. So we can teach you a whole lot of good information that'll help you. Now, would it automatically make the pain go away? No. But it'll make you so much stronger, so much more able to handle this and give you so much more hope about what can happen in the future. And so again, that forgive me if I sound like a commercial, I don't mean to. But if you go to marriage helper.com slash apply, you can just fill out a form there. And if we believe that there is something we can do from you for you, then then we'll make contact with you about that. But it's your decision. No. If the pain that you're feeling right now is mostly because of the holidays, then you might be feeling better after the holidays. But I can't guarantee that. The only thing I can do or that we can do to help you is to offer you the solo spouse workshop at this point. Emily, am I overstating that?

SPEAKER_09 54:35

No, I don't think you're overstating that at all. When it's I mean, the question is, what do I do? And when everything feels like it's falling apart and I don't know what to do. And even worse, you've tried other things. You've done counseling together, you've done it separately, you've done a different marriage intensive, and at this point you feel like you're at the end of the rope and that nothing has worked. And that's a really hard place to be, especially at Christmas. Especially knowing that when January turns around or comes around, that's when we see divorce filings pile up and all of the things. But there is still hope. We believe that, Pat and all of you who have had questions about this, and it really comes down to doing things differently, having a different focus, having a different set of goals that you're working on, doing the things that are going to build the marriage, that are going to pull your spouse back, stopping doing the things that are going to push your spouse away. And right now, especially for those of you like Pat who are in a situation where there's just very limited to no contact, there is still things that you need to do for your own mental sanity. We were speaking with one of our team members who lives in South Africa. I actually had never met him until earlier this week. And we were on a call. And before we hopped off, I said, I just have to introduce myself. And he introduced himself to me. And he said, You have to know that even though Marriage Helper, or my marriage has not yet been saved yet, that marriage helper saved my life because of the change it made in him. And that is the powerful thing that we see through our solo path, through our solo spouse program that we call it. We can really intently and uh intimately is not the right word, but like one-on-one, personally work with you to make sure that you are following the seven steps that we have, the seven steps of how to save a marriage, starting with calming down, going to getting clarity, stopping your pushes, starting your pulls, forgiveness, reconciliation, rebuilding trust, igniting passion and intimacy, and then creating your dream life together. We have a path for that whole thing. And so we we include a lot of the we include the whole the whole cycle. Whereas other programs or things, while many of them have good attributes, they do part of it, like a small part of it, and it keeps people stuck. And then they lose hope. We don't want you to lose hope. We want to infuse you with hope. And so anything that we can do, anything we can do, we know how to help you. And so we would love to help you in the way that we best know how to help you. You can go to marithelper.com/slash apply.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

And if you do one of our online workshops, you may meet some of our South African team members because they often are involved in our online workshops. Um For sure. Uh Kimberly and I uh don't always get to meet the people that work with us from other countries. We, I mean, they go through a screening process, they have to know what they're doing to work with us, those kinds of things. But but because of our positions, we don't always meet every person. And so I'm glad you got to meet him. I finally got to meet him about a month ago. It was cool. He's great. And I got to meet two other South Africans in that same thing a couple of months ago. It was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_09 58:00

I love it. Well, Pat, we will keep you in our prayers and we hope we can help you in every way possible. Joe, I'd like to take another caller. I'd like to go to Matthew from Ohio.

SPEAKER_03 58:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 58:12

Matthew, how can we help you today?

Caller Matthew: Depression, Affair, And Choice

SPEAKER_03 58:15

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I appreciate it. I know we're kind of butting up at the end of the time. Um so for for me, I have been a standing spouse um since July when when she told me she wanted a divorce. Um and I didn't blame her for for wanting a divorce. I had unfortunately kind of turned into somebody that I wasn't proud of and I was diagnosed with major depression. And you know, if I weren't her, she was I would have uh divorced that person too. So like I gave her a lot of grace and love for that. Um now, so when she told me she wanted a divorce, she was having an emotional affair with somebody. Um and I've been standing for our marriage for the last, you know, six months. Um and she did tell me that she wanted to try us again. Um and she didn't tell me until I asked her directly that, you know, the status of their relationship and she was uh she had just stopped talking to him because he stopped responding to her. Um and she was, you know, sending him gifts that she made just this past like two, three weeks. Um kind of felt like I was being left a second option. And also she told me that, you know, she did say that she was in love with him and that they they were physical, they did have sex. Um which that part hurt really bad because um sex has been an issue for us for for fifteen years. We've been together for fifteen years. Um she was a you know, God bless her, a a rape survivor from when she was young. She has complex PCSD about it. Um and so we we primarily have been in a sexless marriage for for fifteen years, having sex less than ten times a year, and it was always hard for her to give that part of herself away, and I was always understanding and um patient and supportive, and I never pressured her, and I don't regret anything. But it just it Thank you. But it it just it hurt extremely bad for her to say for all those years it's hard for her to give that part of herself away and then to go give it away to somebody else. Um and so now we've kind of we've kind of vacillated, we've flip-flopped. I've been standing and you know, I even told her I was standing. Um and now she's saying that she wants to try again. She doesn't want we have a two year old and a four year old. She doesn't want the kids to have separate holidays, and now that she disclosed that she, you know, gave her heart and body to another man. Now I have vacillated and I'm thinking, I don't know if this is what I want. I want somebody I'm a big love as a choice guy, and you didn't choose me. You didn't choose us.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

May I suggest something to you, Matthew? May I?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:49

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

When you were in depression, you were a different person. Right? When she was in limerence, she's a different person. That's not who she is. Limerence is just as powerful or more powerful than depression and changing a person's thoughts, emotions, and everything else. So the woman you're in love with, that core woman didn't give herself to that guy. The woman in limerence did. And if you if you want her to have grace toward you for when you were in depression and now are out, give grace to her as she was in limerence and now is coming out. Does that make any sense whatsoever?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

It it does. It does.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

Does it help? Does it help or does it just make you mad?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

I mean it it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't make me mad. I I guess it almost just like I don't know. It ju it it does hurt. Um and I know there's I know there's I'm having a separation between logic and emotions, right? Like logically, I know that that her you know being in Librance absolutely throws all of her brain chemicals off. And it didn't help too that she's been on antidepressants for the last six years, and then right before she started talking to this guy, she decided to cold turkey them. And then this guy re-entered our lives. Um so like of course, serotonin bombed out, he became into the dopamine when you know we were we were already going through a hard season, not just with my depression, but our our kid has special needs, and that's very challenging. So we haven't we've been more like roommates because of you know the both the depression and uh our son with special needs, we haven't been connecting. Um so they just uh I I I know logically what you're saying is right, Dr. Beam. It's just hard for me to emotionally accept it if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

Yeah, but you want her to emotionally accept that you were in depression. You want her to emotionally accept that you changed. Are you are you asking her to do more for you than you're willing to do for her, my friend?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

No, never. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

Um and it's you sound like a really good guy. You sound like a really good guy. I like this guy already.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:06

I know, I do too. Matthew, we want to help. We love you so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:09

We've all we've already decided we like you. I I love you guys much more. I and I will say, actually, if I mean I know we're on a live call for people, and I'm not a I'm not a therapist. I will say that the working the pies helped my depression more than any therapy did. So totally unrelated. Um take that for what you will. But um, I'm grateful for you guys because I found you right when I needed you.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:32

Um that's amazing to hear. We were I forget where we were at. Well, what I'm hoping I I have I have a question for you. So did I I want to make sure I heard you right when you said she is willing to work on it now because you flip-flopped, right? You were standing, now she's wanting to work, and you're the one vacillating. Okay, you said love is a choice and she didn't choose you, but she is choosing you. She's choosing you now. Yes, and right now is what matters. So what are your next steps, Matthew?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

Um right now I'm I'm trying to decide what my if my next step is if that's what I want, because it's hard for me to then grasp, and I I know we've talked about trust and calculative trust. It's hard for me to trust that if we go through another hard season, how do I know that she she won't won't choose me again? Like she can choose me when times are hard, but if we go through another hard season, which all marriages do, how do I know she's not gonna vacillate and go or not or go and limit somebody else and every relationship chosen?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:32

Every relationship is a risk. Every single risk. Yeah. Okay. So what are you gonna do, Matthew? We're gonna make a choice based on your logic and hope your emotions catch up, or make a choice based on your emotions and later hate that you did. Which is what you'll do. I'll predict that for you right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:52

So, like if I if I make an a cho a choice based on my emotions, which right now my emotions are telling me I don't know what I want.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

If you decide I'm not gonna do this because I'm hurt, I'll guarantee you that that within two years, maybe within a year, you'll be calling me back saying, Why didn't you tell me? Because you'll regret it, my friend. You you know who this woman is inside. And you know that the good woman's still in there, right? Yeah. Okay, if if and and don't just say that because I'm saying it. Do you really believe that?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

I I have I've actually even used your words of um I know when when her and I have have had talks and like been had hard to hear, I've told her that, you know, she's a good person that that did a bad did a bad thing. But I also said I'm a good person and I've also done a bad thing. So, you know, both of us taking accountability. So I do believe, yes, she is a good person.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:50

You have Matthew, Matthew, you have every single thing you need to get to save this marriage and it be better than ever before. Everything, everything you're saying, the how you've reacted, how you're acting now, the way like your thought process. This is so salvageable. This is so salvageable.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

It is, it is 100% salvageable. And like I know probably me calling into a marriage helper radio shows that like it I I want to save it, but like part of me is just you know, now with the with the issues of like you know sex and you know her giving herself away. And I I get it against delimerence and everything. It sucks. It's terrible. And we even I hate it happens. We even had a conversation where like she she said like she doesn't want to be responsible for you know my my sexual fulfillment, which also hurts. And she said that she would rather me just go out and find it uh outside of our marriage, which I don't want to do. She doesn't mean that.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:46

You're not gonna do that. You're not gonna do that because we already know who you are, Matthew, and you're not the kind of person who's gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

So it's not you, it's not you. Yeah, yeah. I tell you what, I will give you I will give you I will give you the sex, the new sex product, sacred intimacy. I'm gonna give that to you. Okay. It's the kind of thing that you watch together because it leads to a lot of conversations. A lot of conversations. Okay. But I'm only gonna give it to you after you decide you're gonna put this thing back together.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:14

Dun dun dun.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

Are you putting me on the spot, Dr. Dames?

SPEAKER_09 1:07:19

Or not putting you on the spot right now. Uh it's your decision. Are you in like are have you done something with marriage helper? Are you uh are you in membership? Have you done it?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:30

I did membership. I did the standing spouse uh back in August.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:35

In person for the men, men only or the um no, it was it was online.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:41

It wasn't it was not men only.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:42

Okay, okay, cool. Um, yeah, I mean, Matthew Would she be willing to come right now with you to the couples workshop?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:52

I haven't I haven't told her that I've done anything marriage helper related. I see. Well you wouldn't. I'm going to, but what?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

Well, first of all, you know, you if if you decide to do that, and I'm not trying to make a sale, but if you're trying to do that, you get a significant discount. And and um and if I need to help you more, I will. I want you here.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:13

Matthew, we want to see this through. Matthew, we are in this with you.

Hope, Workshops, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

And if I have to do more to get you here, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:22

What what are you gonna do, Dr.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:24

Main? What does that mean? I'm not gonna say it on the air because then I'll get 400 calls. I got your number. I've got your number. It's 330, right? Your telephone number is 330? It's 330. I got it. You got it. Uh-huh. And and I'm not gonna tell you on the radio or I mean on on the live here what I'm gonna do because I'll get 400 calls asking for the same thing. But I'm telling you, I'm telling you, we believe in you. We instantly liked you. I want you here. Thank you. I'll do what it takes to help you get here. Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:00

That can help you decide, Matthew. That can help you decide. The workshop will by the by Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

The two of you.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:08

The two of you.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

The two of you make you and then make the decision. How about that, buddy?

SPEAKER_09 1:09:12

And then you'll get the sex product.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:14

That's right. All right, deal.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:16

That's the attorney. You guys drive a hard bargain.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:18

Uh hey, we do what we can.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

Thank you. Thank you, Matthew. You're gonna get a call from us, bud. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

All right, I'll make sure my voice smells clear, just in case.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

Thank you, man.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:35

Thank you, Matthew.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:36

All right, guys. Thank you so much. Have a great day. God bless.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:38

You too. You too. Bye. Oh, he was great. I like that guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

I know. He's he knows what he's talking about, et cetera, et cetera. And uh and some people thinking, you didn't offer me anything. I'm sorry if I sound prejudiced. I I just like it when somebody has already done their work, already done the research, already been to one of our workshops, for example. They know they know what to do, and they're vacillating. Yeah. We and plus, we have people call us that that just don't have any money. Uh, and we do our best. And we don't want anybody ever to miss our workshop because they don't have money. And I'm not saying he doesn't. For all I know, that guy's a billionaire. But yeah, but we don't you want you to ever ever bypass our workshop because you think you can't afford it. We'll figure out something.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:27

We will.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

If you have a genuine need. A genuine need, not just looking for a discount.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:32

It's true. Well, I know we're at the end of our time together. I would like to end differently.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:39

So what I would like to do is end in prayer.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:44

You're the boss.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:45

I am the boss.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:47

I work for you.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:48

I get to choose what happens. No, that's not true.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

She signs my paycheck.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:53

Yeah, somehow, someone does electronically. But uh at the it at Marriage Helper, we have been taking 12 days, along with those 12 days of Christmas that we all sing about and all the fun things. But we have been doing 12 days of prayer. And so as I was getting ready today, I thought we should do it today on the live show as well. And so let's pray.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:18

Go ahead.

Access And Support Commitments

Closing Prayer For Marriages

SPEAKER_09 1:11:18

I will. God, we are grateful that you love us. And God, we know that there are so many hurting marriages out there. That's right. The people who are listening right now, the people who will listen later, the people who won't listen at all. There are still so many marriages that are in crisis. And God, as much as it breaks our heart for those marriages, which it does, it breaks your heart even more. And God, we are grateful that you care about those marriages. And we pray that you would intervene to soften hearts. We know that there's free will. But God, we pray that you would provide every circumstance absolutely possible in order for those hearts to be softened, for people to turn back, for reluctant spouses or straying spouses, as we sometimes call them, to turn back to their marriage, and also for standing spouses, like we just heard, to continue to be bold, to continue to stand strong, even when hurtful things happen, when hard things happen, when there doesn't seem to be any hope or any progress, God, that you would give, that you would give the sustenance needed in order to continue to forgive the hard things, to continue to love even in seemingly impossible situations, because we know that that's what you've done for us. And God, we are so grateful that that you do love us and that you loved us first and there was no prerequisite for it. And God, I pray that you would give us, everyone listening, whether they're a believer or not, that same heart, that same heart to love. And I pray for anyone who's listening who doesn't know you that maybe this is the time for them to pray themselves because we know that you are present and near, and you don't have to have any special education or requirement or anything to simply go to you in prayer. And so, God, we pray for marriages to be saved. We pray for us to have the correct uh and and holy heart position going into the Christmas season. That everything we do, that we would become more and more like Jesus and how we act and love each other. That's right. And it's in Jesus' holy name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:34

Amen.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:34

Amen.