What Sexual Frustration Actually Reveals In A Marriage

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Transcript

Naming Sexual Rejection And Its Cost

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Sexual rejection is one of the most common marriage issues that we see. And it's also the one people talk about with the least honesty. You ever hear these platitudes where people just, oh, you need better communication, you need to make a list of all the things you want to do and cross things off that you're not comfortable with. Many of that those things just fail. When people feel sexually rejected, it can seem like an emergency. Totally destroys your self-esteem. If only I were better fit, or if I had more resources, or if my spouse loved me, they would do such and such for me. It's an incredibly lonely feeling. One of the worst things is when you're the spouse who can't manufacture those feelings, and you feel like you're letting your partner down. What many people don't realize is that sexual frustration is rarely about intercourse, it's rarely about the sex itself. Most people don't understand the elements that are causing the disconnect. And so they never really understand what to do about them. But on today's show, we're going to unpack what actually drives desire and what erodes it. So if you're stuck somewhere between feeling pressured to perform or feeling your spouse withdraw from you, today's conversation is going to matter to you. With that, it's over to you, Dr. Joe.

Beyond “Fix The Relationship” Myths

Universal vs Specific Sexual Problems

The PIES Lens: Physical, Intellectual, Emotional, Spiritual

Desire, Arousal, And Sacrifice In Marriage

SPEAKER_09 1:26

When I talk to marriage counselors and they tell me about that, they have a couple comes in, put some kind of a sexual difficulty. That one of them wants to have sex more than the other. And then if you get further into that, you realize that after frequency will come certain particular sexual acts, like I want to do this, but she doesn't, or I want to do that, but he doesn't, those kinds of things. Well, we'll talk about that today because of the fact that sex is an important part of marriage. We know that uh there are a lot of people, and not just males, by the way, a tremendous number of females, who are using pornography regularly. And these are often married people, and the other spouse is saying, What's wrong with me? Why do you why don't you watch that instead? And then there are people, of course, who have extramarital affairs, and sometimes they will use the justification. Well, I had that affair because of the fact that I am so sexually unfulfilled. Is that ever a valid reason? Well, let's talk about that. You see, when I talk to marriage counselors who've been trained to be marriage counselors about this, they've had little to no training in how to help a couple with sexual issues. Because of the fact that they've been trained that if we can just help them fix the relationship itself, then the sexual issues will fix themselves, but that's not necessarily true. My early mentor back a long, long time ago, many years ago, when I was still in my teens, my early mentor told me that everything that happens outside the bedroom affects what happens inside the bedroom. And everything that happens inside the bedroom affects what happens outside the bedroom. And so, yes, in that sense, the relationship is crucial. But not just in the sense of if we can fix what happens outside the bedroom, then everything inside the bedroom is gonna be okay. Not the case. And so if you talk to somebody who is actually a trained sex therapist, and you come to them with some kind of a problem, for example, the presenting problem I mentioned already, but we have a discrepancy in desire, meaning that one of us wants to have sex a lot more than the other person does. They're gonna, or if you have a particular problem like anogasmia, uh either he or she can't reach orgasm, or perhaps it's erectile dysfunction with him, or that could be any number of other things, then there's gonna be two sets of questions that the sex therapist is gonna ask. The first is going to be, is this a universal problem or did it have a beginning date? In other words, have you always been like this, or did this start with some particular situation? For example, a couple I worked with years ago, he had an affair, and uh uh afterwards he and his wife got back together, and they were going to try to make their marriage work, but but he couldn't function sexually when it came to his wife. So he went back to his affair partner and he could function with her. And so the question they were asking me is why is it that he can function sexually with that the partner outside of the marriage, but not function inside the marriage. And now we have to start examining that. Okay, we have something now that is not universal, it's not always been the case. It happened at a particular time, at a particular time it started there. So let's see if we can figure that out. And that's what we did for them, helped them figure out what was the precipitating factor or what made this change. Now, the other question they're going to ask you is is this universal or specific? Meaning like this. Uh, would this be applicable to everybody that you were going to have sex with or just with this particular partner? And so in the example I just gave you, it was not universal. He could function sexually with the other woman, but he couldn't function sexually with his wife. Now, by asking those two sets of questions, has it always existed or did it have a starting point? And it would be true with everybody, or is it just true with you? You can start getting into it. Now, if it had a particular starting point, and if it's just with the spouse, then yeah, in all likelihood it's about the relationship and you can fix it that way. But sometimes it's existed a long time before that. And sometimes it can be it's it's uh it's been universal. I mean, maybe when I was a teenager or before we ever got married, I tried to have a sexual experience with somebody else and I couldn't do that either. And that's when you start looking into what we do when we talk about pies. You say, okay, is there a physical reason for this? Something that we need to involve a physician with to help fix this. Some couples, for example, discover on their wedding night, particularly if they go as virgins, that uh the wife may have a very thick hymen that can't be broken by attempting intercourse. And then they have to go see a doctor, and the doctor then is going to have to do something to remove that hymen. So that's a physiological problem. Or let's say the men, well, you understand what I'm saying here. I'm saying if it's physiological, then you need to fix it there. Uh one woman told me years ago, of course, her husband was with her, and she said, I just can't seem to have an orgasm when we are having sex with each other, but when I run, I do, at least based on how my girlfriends describe orgasms, I have that when I'm running. What do you think the problem could be? To which I replied, My guess is it's physiological. It has to do with your body. Probably a hooded clitoris. And in that case, what you do is go see your gynecologist, obstetrician, uh, show him or her this is what's happening, and they may find that you have a very thick hood over the clitoris, a one that doesn't retract like it's supposed to, and then they can do that with some minor surgery and help you figure that out. And so that you look at it, is there a physicological reason, physical physiological reason for this? And if so, how do we fix that? Sometimes it's the intellectual reason. You say, What's that? That a person thinks, well, what you want just isn't logical. It doesn't make sense to me because I would think, well, intercourse is what makes babies, and therefore it should be only intercourse, and you want to try some other things in addition to that. And and they're not objecting to it emotionally, not even objecting to it spiritually, but objecting to it because it doesn't hit or fit their thought pattern. Then of course, another problem you have would be the emotions. If uh a person, for example, was sexually abused when he or she was younger, or if in a previous relationship, even in adulthood, they were treated terribly by the other spouse. Um, maybe a husband, for example, that was mean and cruel to his wife in their sexual encounters, and finally they're divorced, and she marries another man, and so he might recommend or suggest that they try something, and she's saying, no, no, no, no. Well, why not? It's not because she intellectually objects to it like it doesn't make sense. It's not even that physiologically she can't do it. It would be, no, this triggers emotions that are exceptionally difficult, and I can't deal with those. And then finally, the spiritual. You say, What do you mean? Well, I've been taught by my church, by my pastor, my Sunday school teacher, my teen group, that this is wrong. You can't do that because it's a sin. Now, that can cause some problems in marriage because sometimes a person will say, But I really want to try that, but based on what I was taught at church, I think it's wrong. One of the things I have done as I've traveled a country doing a seminar called Love, Sex, and Marriage, is help people to realize what the Bible really does say about what you can and can't do in marriage. Now you say, Well, what has all this got to do with understanding a relationship? Well, if there's a sexual problem, say a discrepancy of desire, a frequency that you disagree on that, or some particular act that one of you wants to do to the other, or that there is some physical or emotional pain involved. All of these things come back then to who is listening to whom. Now, one person says, as a guy told his wife many years ago, he said, I'm the man, I should have the strongest sex drive. Therefore, if I don't want to have sex, you shouldn't either. And she was extremely frustrated because she had sexual needs. And she had the two of them talking together. Can you help him understand that it's not just for the man, it's for both of us? Well, what had to happen there is that each person would truly hear the other. And sometimes you would be involved in sex with the other person, even when you were not exactly feeling like it. You see, when they look at the old Masters and Johnson model of arousal and then plateau and that kind of thing, they used to have a thing ahead of that, ahead of arousal they called desire. But it's been proven, and particularly with women, that you don't necessarily have to have desire before you start doing things to increase arousal, that many women can't differentiate between arousal and desire. That only when they start becoming aroused do they find themselves desiring to have sex. And so what is it telling me if you walk in and you say, well, we're having some serious sex problems? If there's not a physiological reason for it, an emotional reason based on something that happened to you earlier, or a spiritual reason where you say, I have a system of right and wrong, and this is outside of that, then we're going to look at the relationship itself. Do you genuinely care for the other person? Are you willing sometimes to forgive the word, but sacrifice to be with him and her, be with him or her, meaning that right now you don't necessarily feel like it. But can you function this way so that the other can have the fulfillment that he or she needs? And in that sense, if you're not having sex, we say, okay, figure out if it's physiological, emotional, or spiritual. And if it's not one of those things that needs to be corrected and fixed, it's going to be about the relationship itself. Now, sometimes people say, but okay, we haven't been sexual, and my husband, or it could be the wife, has justified stepping outside the marriage because of the fact that we didn't have sex with each other for a long period of time. Does that justify what he or she did? My response would be, no, but you contributed. You say, What do you mean I contributed? Well, let me refer back to the Bible since I'm a Christian here. In 1 Corinthians chapter 7, it says we should fulfill each other, that my body belongs to my wife and her body belongs to me, and that we should not go without sexual fulfillment except for a time of prayer. Really? So that you will not be tempted because of your lack of self-control. And so if you have been turning down your spouse sexually, I don't mean just an episode, but going for a period of time which is pretty much sexless because you just don't want to be involved, or you're mad at them, or you're punishing them, or all those kinds of things. No, it doesn't justify adultery. It does not. But it makes you a contributor. You may think, well, would the same thing be true of pornography? Yes. Not in the sense that it's your fault they're looking at pornography, not in the sense that maybe your body's not everything you want it to be. Don't think like that. But think in terms of the fact that a spouse who has no sexual fulfillment in the marriage might be tempted to do something else. I'm not justifying the temptation, I'm not justifying the action. Now, the last thing, and I don't have time to answer this today, you might be thinking, well, well, what if my spouse is involved with someone else? Should I still be having sex with him or her? Hmm we'll put that question off to another time because it's too complicated to answer in the 60 seconds I had left. But I would like to know one thing. You can write it either on the screen if you're watching that way, or send us an email about it. I've been talking to uh Dr. Holmes, our CEO, Kimberly, about uh doing maybe a two or three hour online webinar about sex, where I'd be teaching for the first hour and a half to two hours, and then for the next hour taking questions and answering as best I can. If you're interested in that, please let us know. No. We're gonna start going to the calls in a minute, but welcome, Dr. Kimberly Holmes.

SPEAKER_05 13:49

Thank you. Glad to be with you today, Dr. Joe. And it's your birthday. So happy birthday.

SPEAKER_09 13:55

Thank you kindly.

SPEAKER_05 13:56

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_09 13:57

I mean, I've had a rough life. Look at me, I'm just 39. Look at what life has done to me.

SPEAKER_05 14:03

You've had a great life. You've impacted a ton of people, helped save a lot of marriages. That's right.

SPEAKER_09 14:10

It has been a very fulfilled and interesting life.

SPEAKER_05 14:13

For sure. Well, we are going to be answering your calls today. So if you have a question that you would like for us to answer, call us at 615-912-2998. Again, that is 615-912-2998. And we would love for the chance, the opportunity to possibly be able to speak with you and answer your question.

SPEAKER_09 14:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 14:39

With that, Joe, let's go to our first caller, Melanie from Pennsylvania. Melanie, how can we help you today?

SPEAKER_07 14:48

Hi, happy birthday. Hi, can you hear me?

SPEAKER_09 14:50

Thank you. Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_07 14:53

Happy birthday, Dr. Joe.

SPEAKER_09 14:55

I appreciate that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 14:56

Dr. Joe, I was on your Limerence webinar last week, and I asked you a question. I was talking about my husband ending his affair a few months ago, and that he seems to be in a lot of shame. You had mentioned that me showing him kindness and forgiveness and acceptance can sometimes keep, I guess, the shame going. So that had me a little concerned if I should be doing anything different from what I have been doing.

SPEAKER_09 15:25

Okay, make sure let me make sure what you just said can keep what going.

SPEAKER_07 15:33

Um I had asked about the shame. The shame is feeling.

SPEAKER_09 15:39

Okay. I didn't get to that word. That's what I was asking. All right.

SPEAKER_07 15:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 15:44

And what's the question for the other thing?

Live Calls: Shame After An Ended Affair

SPEAKER_07 15:46

And then so then I wanted to ask if I should be doing anything differently, because I am showing him a lot of kindness and acceptance. Um one thing maybe you should know is that we have been separated for two years, but for the last year he's been living in a different state than me for work. So I only get to see him about once a month. And when he does come back to our hometown, he will stay at the house, although he stays in a spare bedroom. And he just started that since he ended the affair last summer. So I guess I'm just looking for advice on how to move forward. He'll never initiate a relationship conversation with me, and I'm hesitant to because I don't want to push. But I feel like at this point, maybe I need to push a little bit to push him with change.

SPEAKER_09 16:41

How would you push Melanie?

SPEAKER_07 16:44

I just worry that if I initiate a conversation with him, but that alone will push him.

SPEAKER_09 16:51

Push him in the sense of making that pain come back up of what he did.

SPEAKER_07 16:58

Yes.

Bad Advice, Boundaries, And Staying Home

SPEAKER_09 17:06

I think that the best way to start a conversation like that is to start with you. Like, let me tell you what I feel. And and don't do it in such a way where you're going to be attacking him because that's not going to work very well. But be open and honest about your feelings. I just want to tell you how I feel. Obviously, I was hurt by what you did. But I want you to know that I still genuinely and deeply care about you, that I still love you. You can start off with that kind of thing. So rather than trying to get into what he feels, you become self-revelatory about what you feel. And that can even be done in a little bit less threatening way. If when he's there, you can tell him a story about, hey, the other day, this is what happened to me at the grocery store. You know, I I've been trying to figure out what I felt about that. You know, I felt this. Or you can pick a story from your childhood and say, you know, I'm trying to understand more about me. And I remember this time when I was eight and this thing happened to me. Let me tell you what happened. But then let me tell you how I felt about that. And so what you do is you wind up modeling to him that you can be open and transparent about what you feel. Now, don't expect him to immediately reciprocate. But if you set up an environment like that, and and of course you can't do it every minute, every time you see him, it's going to be gradual over a period of time. But if you can set up an environment like that, it's much more likely that he is eventually going to start telling you what he feels and what he thinks. And so you don't push for that, you allow it to happen, but you model it so you set up where it can happen. One other thing I'd recommend, he is, in all likelihood, also going through a grief state, um, not just because the affair is over, but grieving what he himself lost in M. Like I used to be this kind of guy, and then I did those things. I I used to stand for this, and then I did those things. And there's a grief involved in that. And so you might want to go to Spark of Life. That's S-B-A-R-K-O-F-L-L-F-E dot org. And they've got some great materials there about how to help people grieve. Because that's what he's doing right now. And so I recommend you check those out. So two things model openness talking about events and then the emotions you felt, and then wait for him. And the other is to find out some more about grief to see if there's something specifically you could do to help him. Okay. All right, Kimberly.

SPEAKER_05 19:38

That sounds great. Let's go to John from Florida. John, how may we help you today?

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Hi, Dr. Bean and Dr. Kimberly. Thank you for your time. So um my wife and I have been married for six years and we are too young kids. Um and we, you know, do we have course here? We had a same faith, but I had a very little knowledge about emotions and you know um relationship building and all that. So I grew up um we both had a like a character, like whereas my wife had a PDFT and learning ID and her parents separated and her mother married. Um we both had if you think in my case, I grew up uh there was no funny thing I home, but um correction and all that. So uh I might have been maintaining like something because my code. Um but you know I can left here. I never really care about all these emotions and how to fix myself. I thought I'm doing everything right. So um doing the very um I have to take the the the load in terms of fixing things and taking the crediting with computers and um making sure everything is you know taken care of. I was a fixer uh for the majority of the time. Um and uh whenever he comes to me with certain um emotions and all I used to I mean there were times when I lose my temper and um you know feel all the anger and all that. And and and the same thing he was also doing the same thing, so there were kind of toxic behaviors from both of us, um like a water bowl and all that. Um and the the same night when I go to bed I had so much of pain in my stomach, you know how I did this to my wife. So the next morning I'm compensating that by doing some um you know, making breakfast or taking the kitchen. So um now we are gonna point where you know um we kind of erase the concerns and target taking the few therapy and where with her therapist now it's reached a point where my wife labels me as a like a narcissist. Oh boy. And any efforts because I've been taking a lot of a lot of um your course and also um other learning and trying to put it in practice, you know, um doing mindfulness and breath work and what not so much and being intentional about my day-to-day things and she thinks everything is a manipulation. Um and now right now she's asking me that I should leave the home. And um and her therapist thinks that she cannot heal if she's a if she's around me.

SPEAKER_05 22:34

Lord help us.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Because her therapist Yes ma'am of course it is um and and um and and and and all my honest efforts all the sacrifices that I did yeah I mean we did have bad moments but we did have a good moment as well.

SPEAKER_05 22:59

Yeah. How long have you been married John six years? How young are your kids five John I am so sorry that this is what you're going through. I'm really sorry that your wife has a crappy therapist and you my my recommendation we can't tell you what to do. You're following marriage helper materials of course of course that's what we would recommend uh don't leave that home don't leave that home if the as long the the thought of that therapist of the thought that she has is is all about your wife's happiness right now. It is not at all about the what's good for your marriage or what's good for your children. And so as long as it's a safe place, which I understand that y'all fight a lot or you have fought a lot in the past, but that that happens as long as it's a physically safe and not any kind of emotionally or physically abusive environment, then stay in that home and begin just being consistent with the things that you have been learning. Practice smart contact day in and day out in how you respond to her. Be very present for your children and just don't allow yourself to believe the the the lies from this therapist who's never even met you from what you've from what you've said.

Motivational Minute: Intimacy As A Diamond

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Have you ever talked to her therapist no um I I at some point I proposed my therapist and heart therapists should talk or you know there should be some sort of um you know uh um we have to bridge the gap and we have open dialogue and um but my wife didn't want it to do that. And and just to uh give you just uh a little bit of extra information um my um see I'm practicing things with the calmness being grounded anything comes out my I can feel my body and then I immediately you know I I know that what I have to practice. So I've been doing that consistently uh for the last um five six months and there are times I I missed it right so there was a time where you know then something happened to my daughter and I didn't like the the the product which was used and all and my she thinks my voice my tone was high I was not abusive or anything my tone was high and the DCF was cold. Um I think somebody else she thinks she says she has not reported it but someone else has reported whoever she spoke to so now um um I do think that she's talking atonism to see um you know if I'm not leaving the home how do I what would be the next step? So I'm just um unsure at this point because being because for me I do take a lot of parenting responsibilities. Yeah uh in addition to you know uh work so I don't have full confidence on her um the kids being with her all the time.

Patience After A Powerful Apology

SPEAKER_05 26:06

Well you okay right and you can't control her anyway. You can't control her anyway. The only person you can control is you. And whether you know I can't speak to DCS being called or anything like that, but here's what I know you continue to be the good father, the right kind of person who's continuing to work on controlling his anger, controlling his temper, um practicing being calm, practicing smart contact. And that, John, is the best thing you can do right now, apart from coming to our next men's in-person workshop here in Nashville, where you could get even more specific guidance on exactly how to handle your situation. But John, I know you care about your wife I know you care about your kids. Keep practicing these things don't listen to what your wife's therapist is saying and the way that she is being manipulated right now by her therapist. And I can say that because I'm a woman talking about two other women right um so just just don't listen to it right now. Focus on these things because these are the things that if anything works to bring your wife back this will but it's going to take consistency over time.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Okay John yes sounded ma'am but do you think the space is gonna help so that way she can no think cleanly no in in my absence? No Okay. Because she has so much a rage uh the same level of rage she had with her mother before and she was constantly complaining that how how how angry she was and now now she's uh she has EMDR sessions and now she's um she's talking to her mother and she's close to her mother but same intensity of emotions and uh anger is towards me now.

SPEAKER_09 27:52

No just don't react to the anger my friend do not respond with anger you be calm you absorb that and I'm agreeing totally with Dr. Holmes here don't leave that home unless you're forced out legally don't leave that home. You be there but you be the best you can be John Right that's right John that's right.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Well Joe, let's head over to Michael and his motivational minute hey friends when I talk to couples about their marriages oftentimes the subject of sex will come up and whether you feel like you're having too much sex which is probably not the case for most of us or whether you feel like you're sexually frustrated or would like to just see more sex and connection in your marriage. I remind couples that sex is only one facet of intimacy. Intimacy is a lot like a diamond. What gives the diamond its brilliance is the different cuts are when the the different facets the different sides of the diamond when light hits that that reflects off of another side that reflects off another side that's what gives intimacy its brilliance there's multifacets when it comes to a diamond. And the same is true with intimacy being known liked loved respected offering trust being able to actively listen to your spouse those are other aspects of intimacy. And so rather than just focusing on sex on one side of intimacy I want to encourage you maybe it's time to begin to focus on some of the others how can you show your spouse that you trust them? How can you show your spouse that you love them and respect them? What are some of the other facets of intimacy that your spouse needs and then see how it reflects brilliance on all the other areas of intimacy including your sex life so as we started whatever happens inside the bedroom affects what happens outside the bedroom and whatever happens outside the bedroom affects what happens inside the bedroom.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

That's right. Well we are answering your calls I'll give the number again it is 61592998. Again the number today is 615912998 I had too much coffee this morning just so everyone just so everyone knows what do I even focus on right now. Well let's go to our next caller Chrissy from Pennsylvania chissy how are you doing today hi Dr.

SPEAKER_06 30:26

Joe hi Dr. Kimberly happy birthday thank you very much. Chrissy we talked to you a couple of weeks ago we asked you to call back with an update what's going on yes I talked to you last week um so do you want me to start from the beginning or where we're at?

SPEAKER_09 30:44

Just quick quick summary just a very quick summary.

Pregnancy, Recent Affair, And Intimacy Fears

SPEAKER_06 30:47

Quick summary okay okay two weeks ago my husband came to me not wearing his wedding ring asking for a divorce after one year of separation um in that one year he had always worn his ring and never brought up divorce um because of what I've learned with marriage helper when he came to me and said I want a divorce you know I'm happy living without you blah blah blah um I was able to stay calm and I reacted the complete opposite way that he was anticipating that I was going to react. So during that conversation um he actually ended up very confused because he could see the changes that I had made and he was like oh my God I I came here with my mind made up and now I have no idea what to do.

SPEAKER_09 31:36

So where are things now?

SPEAKER_06 31:37

We ended up having so he left off and he said I want you to prove to me that you understand me. In order for me to think about reconciliation I need to know that you understand me. So he said let's talk again in a few days and you can tell me all the ways that you understand me. And I was thinking okay great he's just gonna you know I I took it as a manipulal a manipulation tactic. But anyway so on Friday we talked again we it was just over the phone and I had written him a five page letter just putting it all out there all the ways that I understand him all the things he needed and didn't get all the things that I understand that I did wrong just this whole letter and by the time it was done by the time I was done reading it he was sobbing. Wow speechless I would say that's a win chissy it wasn't even a long it wasn't even a long I I was expecting us to be on the phone for hours but he was just like I have no words right now he's like I need time to process this whole thing um he asked me to email him a copy of the letter so he could like go back and read it again. And he also asked me to email him a copy of our vows because he's like I want to go back and refresh our vows and see what I promised you. And I was like okay I mean you married me so that was presumably you know maybe I didn't say that okay I mean so that was on Friday I didn't hear from him all weekend and then on Monday he texted me and said um I'm very apprehensive about what my next step should be I'm actively pondering. I just need time to think it over and that's where we left off at and so I need to know how how long do I give him because I feel like the longer I wait or the longer it takes like I feel like he's talking himself out of it again. I feel like he was convinced that he should try again and now he's like maybe talking himself out.

Prostate Cancer, Function, And Connection

SPEAKER_09 34:09

But you're saying that you had this conversation with him two days ago Friday.

SPEAKER_06 34:16

I think she said it was Friday. Monday it was Friday yeah I I read him the letter on Friday.

SPEAKER_09 34:21

Oh I see I just saw on the screen up here that you said something about Monday. What happened Monday? Monday he texted me and said um that he was very apprehensive about what his next but what I'm saying is your last contact with him was Monday and now you're asking about how long do you wait? Two days is not very much time.

SPEAKER_06 34:44

Okay. I just feel like I'm being tortured right now. Like not purposely by him but like I physically feel like I'm being tortured. Because I'm like every day you're waiting. Every day you're waiting to hear I don't want yeah I don't want to give him time to change his mind.

SPEAKER_09 35:02

I feel like it was on the right track and I feel like so you don't trust him to think you know maybe I don't think I had Chris you're a take charge kind of person that just charges in there and fixes things right yes and he's a laid back person that has to process things and think them through right to death yeah he has to process things to death beat them with a you know beat a dead horse over and over.

SPEAKER_05 35:38

But by the time he makes up his mind he makes up his mind right you've done really well so far.

SPEAKER_09 35:45

Yeah. Don't start pushing the dude now he feels understood. He feels that you've listened to him that you really got him that that that that and that's touched him deeply don't blow it by calling him up and saying okay dude time's up your mind. You know that's the worst thing to do.

SPEAKER_05 36:00

Chrissy I want to help you reframe this just for a minute. So for you I'm I'm probably very like your personality style. So so for you you're thinking I want this tied up in a bow I want an answer I want a plan I want us to start moving forward because that's gonna make you feel better. I 100% get it. But what about right now for him? Let's get this show on the road. But for him what if he needs this time to truly the tension for him is good. The tension is going to force him to wrestle with it. It forces him to bring it all to light the longer this tension is there for him right now, your fear is he's gonna talk himself back out. In reality this tension allows it to stay at the top of his mind and for him to and for him to like actually wrestle with it so that at the end of it he will be able to confidently move forward into a next step. If you push him right now he's going to back off he's gonna say she didn't change I don't want to go back into exactly what I tried to leave that's the last thing you want to do allow him the time you just told him you understood him. So now you have to show him you understand him in the way that you react towards him allow him this time he needs to process you're gonna go crazy so find something else for you to focus on go to the gym read a book find a show to binge watch on Netflix like whatever you need to do to keep yourself from going crazy because you going crazy will make you want to act you acting too soon is going to go backwards in progress.

SPEAKER_06 37:41

Okay. So how long do you like is it would this be normal for him to be like you know another week another month like I don't know how you don't know. I know so you have no idea yet patience my friend patience. Patience and prayer crystal I just need to sit back and wait for him. I need to wait for him to come to me not reach out to him.

SPEAKER_09 38:08

No unless you have a a valid reason to like if if you know something comes up business wise and you need to contact him you know do that. But about this, yeah, be patient let him work through it. And if you want to send like a three-word text somewhere along the line like I love you just that nothing more no questions no pushing and and if you do that don't do that every day or every other day do it occasionally okay all right all right keep us informed we want to know we're invested in this all right thank you you're very welcome thank you Christy is a lot like you how do you how do you say what what gave it away what gave it away there was something in the chat from the very beginning of the show that I would love to go up to uh we had a chatter on the YouTube comments and oh I she retracted the message.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

Well I won't share the names but basically the idea of it was um my my husband I feel like he's pulling back from me intimately and I he says that he doesn't when I approach him he says that he doesn't but I feel like he does the second message she sent was an oh by the way he recently ended an affair with an intern at work and I'm 31 weeks pregnant. When you hear that kind of situation what might you think Dr. Joe, sexologist Joe, that could be leading that man to maybe not be as he's going to do all kinds of emotions right now if he just ended an affair.

SPEAKER_09 39:54

Plus, you know he's gonna be a dad she didn't say with the first child or not, right? No, not that I remember we run into it a lot. Don't panic when I say this, but we run into it a lot. Where that sometimes husbands will have affairs when the wife is pregnant. Part of the reason for that, at least with some of the guys is the fact that all of a sudden there's more responsibility and and they kind of run from that responsibility a moment around from that responsibility seven affair. If he's pulling back from you right now intimately how how long does gestation take place? How many weeks?

SPEAKER_05 40:26

Gestation oh like the full pregnancy 40 weeks. She's a PhD You're pregnant 40 weeks.

SPEAKER_09 40:37

You're within two months of delivering I I wouldn't panic about it right now just be romantic in the sense that whatever you can you know if he's still into hugging uh occasional kiss on the cheek or whatever do that but don't push it and don't be upset that he's not being intimate with you right now be patient.

SPEAKER_05 40:59

That sounds like absolute great advice gestation indigestion? I'm not sure you've watched three children be born no two. You weren't in the room for one of them?

SPEAKER_09 41:15

When an angel was born that the the Moz guy hadn't come along yet. So you weren't allowed you weren't allowed in the room for the back then it was all civilized that dad's all went outside and smoked.

SPEAKER_05 41:26

There you go.

Non‑PVI Fulfillment And Ongoing Hope

SPEAKER_09 41:27

But yes I've watched two children be born yes and you one of which was you one of which was yours truly all right I'm looking at Jason.

SPEAKER_05 41:34

Jason do you want us to go to Nathan? Okay I was trying to read his cues behind there. You need a whiteboard we're gonna head to Coffee Grounds with Nathan Grounds.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Hey guys I want to tell you a story of a couple that I've been working with this is a story that sounds somewhat similar to others that I've told in that it begins with just one spouse who wanted the relationship. We call these standing spouses sometimes solo spouses. We have workshops designed specifically for solo clients and this guy was one of our solo clients he started off by coming to a solo workshop he started coaching with me. Through those experiences at the workshop and in coaching he began to realize the issues in his relationship at this point he and his wife who had been together for I believe 20 years at this point were already separated. He desperately wanted the marriage she was checked out she was a reluctant spouse. He was confused as to why until he began learning about himself through our workshop and through coaching. And he began right away making some of the changes many of the changes that we at Marriage Helper encourage standing spouses to make. He began working on his pies he started to become a more attractive person. The most attractive he'd been in years he said he started to implement some major pulls back into the dynamic with his wife however she was quite skeptical what made this guy so interesting and fascinating was not that he did anything necessarily revolutionary although many of the changes were quite pronounced, were quite stark such that his wife could definitely tell what made him special was that he didn't quit. You see a big part of our philosophy is patience and consistency. Because just like so many other standing spouses who find us and begin making changes his wife was very side-eyed at first was very I'm not so sure this is not just another attempt to control me which had been his nature in the past he was a controlling person. That's what he was starting to learn about himself through our material. Through patience and consistency his wife began to warm to him to the point that they started eating meals together he started coming over sometimes he'd even start staying the night in time the two of them went to a couple's workshop So now she's learning the same material he's learned. And since then, they've come to start coaching with me through a process of exploring reconciliation. It's been wonderful to watch how one man, through patience and consistency, with a little bit of help, doing the next right thing, was absolutely able to revolutionize not only himself, but his marriage as well. We'd love for a story like this to become one of yours. And so if you're thinking about joining a workshop or coaching, I just want you to know you will benefit from it. And we hope to see you there real soon.

SPEAKER_09 44:37

So, Kimberly, do you think he really has coffee in that cup? I'm I'm thinking he's faking that.

SPEAKER_05 44:43

No, I think he has coffee in that cup. Okay. Who wouldn't want coffee in their cup? That's the real question. All right, we're going to go to our next caller, John from Texas. John, how can we help you today?

SPEAKER_04 45:00

Yeah, I was calling because I've been married to my wife.

SPEAKER_05 45:06

John, can you do me a favor? Can you move somehow closer to your microphone? You're you sound far away. So that better? Oh, way better. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 45:22

I've been married to my wife for 24, 20, almost 25 years. Um five kids. Uh a couple years back. We ran into a flag where I got diagnosed with cancer, had to have surgery, ended up um, you know, had the surgery, and doctors told me it would take a while for me to get back physically. Um she had some medical issues herself. And just the last couple the last three years has been rocky and said that she wanted divorce, separation, and everything, and part of that comes back to um intimacy. She said that I was lacking intimacy with her and physically um and everything that you know, whenever we get into the arguments, or she makes that statement, it's been the last couple of years that cover the time span of the surgery and whatnot.

SPEAKER_09 46:18

Sean, uh James, I mean, what what kind of cancer did you have? It's John. It's John?

SPEAKER_08 46:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_09 46:23

Okay. Sean, what kind of cancer did you have? Prostate. Okay. And and did they uh what kind of it was a pretty radical surgery?

SPEAKER_04 46:33

Uh just uh prostate, they just took the prostate out.

SPEAKER_09 46:36

Okay. And so that of that affected your ability physically to be able to uh have a divorce, for example. Correct. Okay. And have they been able to help you physically get past that problem? Not just the cancer, but uh but the sex problem.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

Uh the biggest thing has been it, you know, the doctor said I I had three options either do injections, peels, or surgery. Another surgery. Um but I you know I opted for um the peels due to my age. He said that was you know, based on my age, I should bounce back quicker. Um so over the last, I would say over the first two years, it was a struggle. Um going into the third year following the surgery, I started getting some reaction, um, but not fully. I mean, we we tried a couple of times in that third, second and third year, and nothing really.

SPEAKER_09 47:34

Okay, so when that when that happens, does does she react emotionally when you can't function in that way?

SPEAKER_04 47:42

Uh at that point when we were getting trying it, it was you know, excitement as far as she was into it. And then she was let down a couple of times. So that was, you know, later on we had a conversation. So what kind of physical problems did she have? Uh she was dealing with um more of a heart issue.

SPEAKER_09 48:09

A heart, yeah. Heart issue. Okay. And so if if I'm hearing you correctly, the fact that she wants a divorce from you is because of the fact that because of your surgery, you're not functioning in the way she wants you to function. Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_04 48:23

That's some of it. The other pieces is more or less, oh, we're not communicating uh and things of that nature, and I'm not a support in the home.

SPEAKER_09 48:34

You're not a support in the home, is that what you said?

SPEAKER_04 48:38

Yeah, that's what she's saying, but you know, I'm doing everything possible uh to be there in the home, you know, interact with the kids, her and so physically speaking, other than the the sex thing, physically speaking, are you doing well now, John? I am. I am um I have not seen any more signs of cancer, and everything else seems to be getting back in, and I'm you know, getting healthier every day.

SPEAKER_09 49:02

John uh, John, I'm gonna ask a question that if you don't want to answer on the air, because obviously anybody in the world can hear you answer and just say, none of your business, Dr. Beam. But um, have you been able to help her be orgasmic even though you've not been able to function in that way?

SPEAKER_04 49:19

That is something we have not interacted with.

SPEAKER_09 49:23

I mean and so she's been sexually frustrated, not just because of the lack of what we call PVI, uh penile vaginal intercourse, but she's not been orgasmic either, correct? Correct. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 49:36

And that's not and that's not due to me offering or trying to do any of those things. I understand. It's just that I've been put at a distance.

SPEAKER_05 49:48

They just haven't been having sex.

SPEAKER_09 49:49

Period. Okay. Correct. So so right now, part of it's physiological, but but a lot of it has to do with your emotional connection, correct? Yeah. And uh if we were to talk to her right now and say, what do you feel about John? Describe him for us, what would she say?

SPEAKER_04 50:13

Uh she would go to the the most negative statement, I guess, saying that, you know, uh love him for being a father, but I don't love him. And the reason she would say that would be what um she's you know, when I talk to her, she's basing it on just a lack of communication and things like that with us.

SPEAKER_09 50:37

Um so when you have conversations, John, do you listen to her a lot or do you talk a lot?

SPEAKER_04 50:46

I can say I'm I'm kind of more in a defensive mode at times. So lately I've been trying to I I try to defend a lot, yeah. I I'll you know, she said something I, you know, at one point I was always fix it. Now all of a sudden I'm listening, and then if I get upset, sometimes I can hold my emotions, sometimes I can't.

SPEAKER_09 51:05

Okay. Kimberly, why don't you speak to that from a female perspective?

SPEAKER_05 51:09

Yeah. Well, I mean, I was just sitting here thinking, I like John. I think you're very self-aware, and I appreciate you calling and talking about a difficult subject, which I think a lot of men don't want to talk about. So, John, for that, I just give you kudos. So when your wife, I uh, you know, I don't know her, but if I'm thinking this is a, I don't know that it matters which of these started first. If it was the sexual frustration that led to the distance in your connection, or if it was the the lack of connection that led to the distance sexually. But in some ways, it doesn't matter. Because likely what your wife is wanting right now is simply for you for her to feel like you are listening and care about what she's saying. And, you know, think about your your wife. You've probably seen her multiple times over the years with your kids trying to tell them to go clean their room or to go do this and to go do that. And the kids just respond back with, I'm not gonna do that later, not right now. And she just gets at her wit's end. Now, when you see that with the kids, you understand, like, man, they just need to listen to her right now. Clearly, you're not her child, but that's a similar way that women can feel too, of I'm just trying to tell you how I feel and what I need you to do. But if you're not listening to me, at some point, women just shut down. They just shut off, they stop talking because you're not listening to them anyway. So, what I would recommend you doing, John, is uh you you said she asked for a separation. So you're in the same house right now, right, John? Yes, you are. So what I would recommend is next time you next time you try and have one of these conversations, and maybe you're the one who starts it this time, where you just go to her and say, Hey, I realize I've been defensive lately. And what I really just want to understand is what can I do for you right now that would take some pressure off your plate? What can I do from for you that would help out more around the house? Because those are things you said she's already mentioned multiple times. And then whatever she says, even if you feel like it's unfair, whatever she says, you say, I appreciate you sharing that with me. I'm going to do, I'm gonna start doing this to help more. And then you start doing those things. So instead of just being defensive about it, you listen and then actually do some of the things that she's asking you about. Now, if she's being unreasonable in all of her expectations, you don't have to do all of them, but you should do some of them because we know that that's a current issue for her that is affecting your relationship.

SPEAKER_09 53:55

That's pretty good. Very good. Um let's talk about cancer for a couple of minutes, if we may.

SPEAKER_05 54:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 54:01

We started off this program talking about sex and and how that uh, if there's a sexual difficulty, you look at the pies, physical, intellectual, emotional, spiritual. And and when it comes to physicality, though our bodies have certain limitations. Prostate cancer moment is rampant. When I was a very young man, like you know, 120 years ago, when I was a very young man, I remember a physician telling me, if you live long enough, you're gonna get prostate cancer. And there's no way to disprove that, by the way. But if you're gonna live long enough, all I know is that when that last year, when I was dealing with prostate cancer, the uh everybody it seemed like, every guy I knew it seemed like was contacting me saying, Yeah, I've had it, I've had it, I've had it. It's a very common thing, and they don't even really know why. I mean, they know it's a male thing, but we we can't say it's your fault because you did this, this, or this typically. Okay. Dealing with it either is with chemotherapy, which uh obviously puts you uh out of the picture for a while, or or radiation therapy, either the old kind, uh which if they blast a big area, or the proton where they blast a very tiny area, uh, those kinds of things. And to begin with, they'll try to, if it's if it's not too bad, they'll just watch it. They won't do anything. It's like, okay, the kind you have takes about 20 years to grow and you're 75, therefore, we're not going to worry about that right now. But here's something for the wives and the guys to understand. It definitely will have a sexual effect. And and when it does, some of it is mental, like, oh my goodness, but some of it is actually physiological, where things that just can't happen anymore. Now, John implied that his wife needed to feel more intimacy. Michael, in his motivational minute earlier, uh was saying that intimacy is not just having sex. Oxytocin is this chemical that's produced at orgasm, which is a very strong bonding thing. But oxytocin is also uh produced when you just hug each other, when you hold hands with each other, when you sit next to each other on the sofa and reach over and kiss each other on the cheek. And we say even if the physiological part doesn't work for PVI, uh penile vaginal intercourse, there are many things you can do for each other, uh, both not just for the wife, but for the man. Now I'm going to be very careful how I say this, and hopefully you'll understand it, and I can't really elaborate on more. But uh a man does not have to have an erection for him to be orgasmic. The erection is designed by God in us to be a transfer tube to be able to move sperm from here to there. But you don't have to have the transfer tube for everything else to take place. In other words, it could still be non-erection and still take place. Now, sometimes that can involve a man's ego and that kind of thing. But continuing to try to fulfill each other sexually, and no longer by PVI if that can't be done, but but through stimulation to the penis and stimulation to the clitoris, et cetera, remains important for lots and lots of reasons. And one of which, and I'm not going to elaborate on this at all, is called penile atrophy, which is basically saying that uh, well, sometimes the uh urologist will say it this way, it's a use it or lose it kind of proposition. And so to all of you out there who are listening, women or men, if if the the man gets this prostate cancer, it's extremely important that you still try to take care of each other sexually, even if it's not going to be in the way it was before. I hope I wasn't offensive with that. I tried to be deliberate and kind.

SPEAKER_05 57:55

Why would it be offensive?

SPEAKER_09 57:57

Who knows? When I was a young minister back in the late 1800s, I got chastised for saying the word pregnant in a pulpit.

SPEAKER_05 58:06

The most ridiculous thing. Apparently you're supposed to say great with child.

SPEAKER_09 58:12

That's exactly what they said.

SPEAKER_05 58:13

Because that's that's the King James version. Well, I know this has been a bit of a different topic of the show for this week, but believe that it's been one that's been helpful.

SPEAKER_09 58:25

As always, we would love your feedback about especially if you would be interested in a two or three hour uh webinar about sex, which I would present from a Christian perspective, obviously, but pretty um frank.

SPEAKER_05 58:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 58:41

I'm always very frank.

SPEAKER_05 58:42

Joe and I have a bet going that whether whether or not the audience would want to have something like this or not. So if you do, you gotta let us know. Is he gonna win on his birthday or am I gonna win?

SPEAKER_09 58:54

She said that you guys weren't interested in it.

SPEAKER_05 58:57

So okay, we'll find out. I did. I said they want to know about affairs, they don't want to know about sex.

SPEAKER_09 59:02

Okay, but let us know otherwise.

SPEAKER_05 59:04

Let us know. Thank you all. We'll see you all again next week. Have a good one.