I Want To Save My Marriage But I Don't Know How To Start

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Transcript

Divorce Legacy And Culture Shifts

SPEAKER_01 0:03

I want to talk today about the cost of divorce. And I actually pulled some stats earlier about the updated cost of divorce when it comes to finances, when it comes to impact that it's gonna that it has on a family, on a person, on a marriage. Here's some things of most recent data that we can see. We see that divorce cases that go to trial, they average around$23,300 for that divorce. We see that overall divorces are now ranging from$10,000 to$20,000 and they continue to climb. That's as of 2025. However, divorce triggers moving costs, home refinancing, additional child care, and therapy, which adds thousands of more dollars. The custodial parent who ends up taking care of the children experiences a 52% drop in household income. About four years before a divorce happens, a couple's net worth begins to decline. And that decline continues to happen, of course, even after the divorce for both people. And custodial mothers lose 25 to 50 percent of their pre-divorce income. And many of them fall under the poverty line after divorce occurs. It continues to go on and on. It talks about how it creates an incredibly detrimental cost to children emotionally, the emotional impact for kids. Overall, we know divorced people end up having more health issues. They end up having higher doctors' bills, medical issues, all of those things. It is the gift that keeps on giving. As one of our friends, Dr. Mark Regneris, told us before, divorce is the gift that gives, or I guess the gift that keeps on taking. It continues to compound and compound and compound. It's expensive financially, it's even more expensive emotionally. So what can you do? If you're watching this, you are likely in a situation where you're saying, I'm facing this, and everything you just shared with me, it's really dreary. And those aren't the things I want to hear. I feel like I can't help where I'm headed. So what can we do? I'm joined today with Dr. Joe Beam.

SPEAKER_09 2:24

Thank you for having me back. I've been gone for a while.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

You have been gone. I'm glad to have you back. We had some good fill-ins. We had Marcos, we had Coach Jared. Those were great to have, but it's never like having the original, the original Dr. Joe.

SPEAKER_09 2:38

The original, the one and the only.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

The one and the only. Joe, I mean, you uh you've been working in this space longer than I have, although I've been at Marriage Hill for almost 15 years, which is crazy. But of course, you've been doing this for the majority of your life.

SPEAKER_09 2:55

Well, not quite, but 32 years.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

It's a long time.

SPEAKER_09 2:58

Unfortunately, that's not the majority of my life and forty-nine years old.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Aaron Ross Powell The majority of your adult life.

SPEAKER_09 3:04

Yeah, 32 years I've been doing this. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

That's right. What do you see as the impact of divorce on people and how can we begin turning that around?

SPEAKER_09 3:13

Aaron Powell Well, just yesterday I was reading some more research when they were trying to predict if a person were going to go for marriage counseling or a marriage course like we do or whatever, what would be the predeterminants as to whether or not it was going to work? What what would we measure ahead of time that give us a good idea as to whether this is going to be effective or not? And the first thing they list is if you are coming from a home where your parents were divorced. If that's the case, then they know that the likelihood of being able to save your marriage decreases right off the bat. Wow. And it's because of the fact that you've learned a pattern where when things get tough, when things get rough, rather than trying to work them out, you leave. You go start someplace else. And that's the legacy that we've been leaving for our children. And we've gotten to the point now where that uh there's a great majority, uh, pardon my allergies there, I apologize. But there's a great number of people who are single. And about roughly half of the adult population of America is single. And it used to be that the majority of these people were looking forward to get getting married, and that's still the case, by the way. The majority are still looking forward to getting married. But the number of percent or the percentage of people who are adults who are single that don't want to get married is increasing dramatically, and particularly among females.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Mm-hmm. Single women keeping other women single. That's what I keep going back to. You see it all the time on social media now. Women saying I one of the best things I did was get a divorce, and they just perpetuate this narrative that gets other women to want to stay single or become single. It's the craziest thing.

SPEAKER_09 4:49

Aaron Powell It's part of a self-justification, don't you think, Kimberly? If I can get you to divorce your husband or divorce other women to divorce their husbands, and it justifies my divorcing my husband, so I don't feel so guilty about it. And then they start talking about, well, I've got the freedom, I can do this, I can do that, I can do the other. And that's a possibility, absolutely. But you know, you can find, and I've said this for years, it's easy to find people who will use you. It's difficult to find somebody who will truly love you. And so what they're missing out on is love. True, genuine love.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Joe, let's talk about what we do at Marriage Helper, because as we said, this is, it can feel daunting. People watching this, they feel either a divorce is currently in the works, they've been handed files, or they fear that that's what's going to be coming. So what do we do at Marriage Helper that can help?

SPEAKER_09 5:45

Well, it's kind of interesting because we live in a world now where there are some couples that have been able to solve their own issues. And the next thing you know they're on Facebook, you know, we we had this problem, and it's typically adultery, but we had this problem, and then we figured it out, and then we're doing really well now. And because we know how to do that now, we'll do that for you, it's just 99.95 or 299 and 95. And and they think that they're experts because they were able to work it out on their own. Well, two two two kudos to them. Number one, I'm sure glad you worked it out. Good for you. I'm happy that happened. And number two, thank you for wanting to help people. But you understand that just because of the fact that you've been through a marriage crisis doesn't make you equipped to help other marriages. Because unless they have the exact same situation as you with the exact same circumstances as you, then there's going to be some different um variances going on there, and you won't know how to help those couples through their variance. And so while I appreciate the fact that you want to help, although I get a little aggravated that you advertise that you're now the guru when it comes to marriage and you can fix everybody else, or even that you can now train them where they can fix other marriages. Just my PhD degree, just that degree costs$100,000. And in addition to that, years of research and work. And and how often do we research here? I'm reading research nearly every day. And you're reading it all the time. And and that's just to barely keep up. And then when you have somebody out there that says, oh no, we have all the answers, come to us because we're cheap, we're good, and one couple said we have a 99% success record. If you have a 99% success record, you're not dealing with people in crisis. I'll just tell you that right now. And so what's different about us and what those well-meaning people out there are doing? Knowledge. We we have studied about everything you can possibly imagine. How this goes wrong, how that goes wrong. We've studied about communication, the good parts, the bad parts, the parts that sometimes are hard to uh qualify. We've studied uh infidelity, obviously. We've studied control, and even to the point of mutual influence. We understand the difference between demand withdrawal patterns, that's a macro level, and push-pull, which is a micro level. We we have studied about everything that you can possibly study forgiveness, reconciliation, how to get past things that are so bad. And when we help people, it's not just, well, we had this little experience and we now have all the knowledge we need to help you with yours. It's not that. We have broad experience, and even then, we're continuing to broaden by research and research and talking to other people who are in the same industry as we are. What are you seeing? What are the kind of things going on out there? So when a person comes to us, it's not like you have to fit our little mold, and if you do, your marriage is going to be great. When you come to us, it's like we're gonna help you understand what's going on. And it's not gonna be the same as the perk that couple over there or that couple over there. It's gonna be some similarity, but some differences. And we're gonna help you not just figure out what's going on, we're gonna help you figure out how you got there. Oh, this is where we made a bad decision. That's where we did the wrong thing. Oh, this is how we're perpetuating that. Hmm. If we were to change that, how would that and in the process of doing that, Kimberly, as you know, we help people find hope. So many people walk into a workshop saying, There's no hope, there's no hope at all. And particularly when one spouse walks in saying, I'm done.

SPEAKER_07 9:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 9:18

I mean, I don't care what you guys do, I'm here because the Thomas Gospel would be, I'll participate, but there's no hope here. Who at the end of the third day are saying, We can see it. This makes sense. And the thing we hear more than anything else. Why didn't somebody teach us this five years ago, ten years ago, thirty years ago? And and uh so what do we do that's different? It's a very broad-based, extremely uh scientific approach, but broad-based so that you don't have to fit a little pattern of mole to work with us. And we can we know how to help deal with this situation and that situation. And not only that, we have trained coaches that once we leave our workshop uh can continue to work with you on the phone or whatever. And we have a membership so that people are in the same situation that you're in, and you can continue to learn in that membership and even specific toolkits on specific issues about I need to know more about that or more about that. In other words, we're very comprehensive, very broad-based, and work with people where they really are. And we have the credentials, we have the experience, we have the success. I know that sounds kind of arrogant, but sometimes I get so frustrated at Kamber League when I see all this on the internet out there, and all these people have all these answers, and when you start looking into it, it's like I don't think they even understand what they're doing. I hope they're not doing a lot of damage out there. And do they help some couples? Probably. If those couples are exactly like them, probably so. But what about the others? You see, here's what I really fear. If you go to somebody who doesn't know what they're doing, who doesn't have all this experience, they may make your marriage so much worse that your spouse will never ever again even look into the things that could make your marriage good again. In other words, not only do they not help your marriage, they so sour you or sour your spouse that that all hope is lost and nothing is ever tried again.

Solo Path Hope Without Your Spouse

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Very much so. The other thing that we do that can really help you get started even now is you don't have to have your spouse be an active, willing participant, or participate at all to even get started. So we have our solo path and we have our couples path. And our solo path, you get the workshop experience, the three-day experience, you get the coaching, you get the membership, all the things that Joe just said. And it really helps you to understand exactly what you can begin to change starting now. And we saw actually at our team meeting yesterday, we were just talking about how in our couples workshops, the team is seeing sometimes half of the attendees there are people who started in our solo program and were able from starting there, their spouse began to see changes, their spouse's heart began to soften, they ended up in the couples workshop and they're seeing amazing turnaround from that happening. So please don't let that false belief of, well, I just have to wait till they're willing, or I have to wait until they are want to be there, or that they're going to be there for this to work. That's not true. And it's only going to keep you stuck exactly where you are right now.

SPEAKER_09 12:36

Because sometimes, Kimberly, I think that when people think, okay, what you guys do may work. You know, I'm not we never guarantee that it will because we don't lie. But we have tremendous success, high percentage of success. And so people are thinking, okay, what you do works. But it's kind of my last bullet in my gun. If if I try this and it doesn't work, I don't know what else to try. And so they keep putting off coming to our workshop because it's it's the last thing they're going to try. And so they're afraid to do it now. Yeah. Because if if that doesn't work, nothing will. But what happens by putting it off and putting it off and putting it off and putting it off, things get worse and worse. The distance becomes greater and greater. And by the time they do finally come to the workshop, if they ever get a chance. Because people sometimes say, well, when's the best time to come to the workshop? And the first time your spouse says it will come. That's the best time.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Now, now, yes, like in the minute your spouse says it.

SPEAKER_09 13:32

Well, maybe I should wait till you know December. Well, uh, if he or she's willing to come now, they may not be willing to come in December. You don't know what's going to be changing. And so I say, do it immediately upon the agreement of the spouse. And we've got a video series that'll teach you how to ask them, not manipulate them. We don't believe in that, but how to ask them in such a way that it's very likely for them to say yes, if you do everything in the video system. Because some people will just look at it and go, got it. No, no, it requires some work. You have to think it through, you have to do some writing. But if you do, that increases the likelihood dramatically. Don't let your fears stop you. Because one day you're going to wake up and realize it's too late to do anything. So do something as soon as you can.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Let's go to our first caller. Vince from Missouri wants to know what are some better ways to ask his wife to attend the workshop with him. Vince, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_03 14:32

I am doing well. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Doing well, Vince. Great to talk to you. How can we help you today?

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Yeah, so I have asked my wife a few times to attend a workshop with me. And she hasn't said no. She doesn't think about it. And she never gets connected to me. And I'm trying to figure out she's on the thing, right? And I'm trying to figure out a better way. Maybe I'm asking it to you that I guess this is what you're just gonna also really help easy in learning the navigating the process kind of thing. Um I haven't told her exactly like just for marriages, but it includes the whole umbrella of you know, from the start of the marriage till the end. And she just says she'll think about it and never gets back to me. So am I just asking wrong, or is this something I just need to do a question?

SPEAKER_09 15:30

Have you ever asked her what appeals to her about it? Pardon my my allegiance here. You explain it to her. When she says, Okay, I'll think about it, have you ever said what part of it do you think might be helpful to you or us or me? Have you ever done that by any chance?

SPEAKER_03 15:48

I have not, no, sir.

SPEAKER_09 15:49

Okay. So when she says, I'm thinking about it, you don't really know if she truly is or if she's just blowing you off. Is that correct? Yes, sir. Okay. Well then my recommendation would be when you bring it up. First of all, have you been through that PDF and and video where you write out everything in advance before you ask? Have you done that? Uh yes, I have. Okay, and you wrote everything out?

SPEAKER_03 16:17

That is correct.

SPEAKER_09 16:18

Okay, good. I'm not trying to put you on the spot. It's just that many people won't write it out. No, you're good. Okay. Well, then when you do that, and at the end, when you make the request, sometimes if if you say, Well, I'm still thinking about it, say, okay, what parts uh of it are you thinking about? What part do you think might be beneficial to you or to me or us? And and uh if you can just get her talking to you about it, where it's actually a conversation, not a one-sided thing, that can be very, very much to your advantage. And then in the process of that, you may find out what her true objections will be. She might say, Well, what I like about it is this, but you know what I worry about is this. And she may say something, for example, it's gonna give you false hope where you think that we can work this out. I'm telling you, there is no hope. Now, if you give you an objection like that, don't argue with her. Don't say, Well, don't make that decision till that we go. Instead, you just say, I understand. I know exactly where you're coming from, I accept that's what you feel right now. I'm asking that we go for these reasons we've already talked about. And and uh, I'm not gonna take false hope, but thank you for thinking about me for that. In other words, no arguing with anything. And if you've done that whole argument of that whole PDF the way you should, you should have already been ready for any negative response she gives you because you would have thought that out in advance and you'll know what to say. But it's never ever argument, never manipulation.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

Yep, nope. I I completely agree with you, and I'm ready for whatever she does come back with.

SPEAKER_09 17:50

So good. How many times have you asked her?

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Why now in a couple weeks? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Are you still living together? Are you separated?

SPEAKER_03 18:06

No, we're still living together. We'll probably be living together for a while.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Okay. That's good.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

But I already did the financing for the program. I didn't realize that it was already gonna make me start paying this month. So I'm like, oh shoot, what am I doing now?

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Well, have you done the solo one either way? Have you done the solo workshop yet? I have not. Okay. I have not. Okay, so you're said, oh, you're the person we're talking about. You're the person who's saying, I'm gonna wait to do this workshop until my wife will agree to go with me, although you could start with the solo this moment.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

That's right. So it's a perfect question for this.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

That's great. Well, Vince, as I'm sure you know, you uh I mean, you can keep asking until the cows come home and she may never give you an answer, at least right now. You're gonna get tools in that workshop. You're gonna get you're gonna get a better understanding of exactly what you need to do, exactly what you can do in your situation that are going to increase the chance of her saying yes to come with you in the future. And as you know, when you come, when you come back, when you're a graduate, you get an extremely discounted rate on the couples. So please don't let that be what holds you back. Start doing the things now. And I know you are. Were you on my were you on my webinar last night?

SPEAKER_03 19:30

I sure was. And I was your first caller last week.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Were you, Vince? Okay, you're doing the work. Don't stop by just waiting for her. Continue to do this work. You're Amber's star client. Oh, it's all coming together.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

I remember. I can't be the star client every week.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

You'll be the star client when you come to the solo workshop before waiting for your wife to say yes. Then you'll get Kimberly's star client of the week.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

All right, I'm in, I'll be there by myself. This month.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Awesome.

SPEAKER_09 20:03

Thinks.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Love it.

SPEAKER_09 20:04

Something new, star client?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah. Amber started it. Cool.

SPEAKER_09 20:09

I had no idea. That's what I get for being out a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yes. Okay. Yeah, that's it. All right. Let's go to our next caller Joe. Let's go to Christine from Tennessee, right in our home state. Christine, how can we help you today?

Caller Christine Navigates Suspected Affair

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Hey guys. Hi. I'm glad you're back, Dr. Joe. Thank you. Thank you. Um you're welcome. Thank you. I need help navigating maybe the next thing. I need help navigating the next thing. I don't know. I don't know where to do it.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

You want to make it a little bit more than a little bit.

SPEAKER_09 22:01

And so what do you think would happen if you say, okay, I think you're having an affair with, or I even if you say, I know you're having an affair with Claudette or whatever her name is, uh, how do you think he'd react?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Um, it would go terribly because I I already did that um Christmas or around Christmas time the year before last. I I did it gently. I I wasn't I just said I I feel like you're having an affair and then it didn't go over very well. What happened? Uh he became very defensive and then started bringing up things from the past 20 years ago that I did, which I just I broke up with him and had a sexual affair with a friend. So it wasn't it wasn't good, but it was twenty years ago, and we moved past that and we got married and everything. But he brings that up and then just starts stabbing with little things.

SPEAKER_09 22:52

So So basically he's just trying to throw you off the subject.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_09 22:59

Okay, so what's the value then in telling him again?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Um I I I feel like if I tell him I I feel like maybe he's compartmentalized it and he doesn't he doesn't believe that I know because I don't know, but I don't I don't really know his way of thinking, but I feel like if I tell him. So what are you gonna tell him?

SPEAKER_09 23:23

Since you don't know, what are you gonna tell him?

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Um I would just tell him that I feel like he's having I still feel like he's having an affair. Um and but I'm I'm still standing for our marriage. Like I'm I'm here for him. And what kind of open the door, I guess.

SPEAKER_09 23:41

Mm-hmm. And is that what you hope to happen is gonna open the door?

SPEAKER_00 23:45

That's what I that's what I hope to happen. Okay, so here's my question.

SPEAKER_09 23:49

Here's my question. If they have two possibilities, if you do that, there are two possibilities. Possibility number one, it opens the door. He starts talking, you get open and transparent. Possibility number two is that that he becomes more defensive and shuts you off even more. Which one of those is more likely to occur?

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Uh defensiveness, for sure.

SPEAKER_09 24:09

If that's the one that's more likely to occur, then why would you do it?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Well, probably a little selfish and selfish reasons that I just I want it out there because it's it's hard living in this secret because we still live together.

SPEAKER_08 24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Um but part of it is I want to I want to show acceptance. I want to be able to show that more so than I already am.

SPEAKER_09 24:35

But what I just heard you say was as soon as you bring it up, he's gonna become defensive and move away from you emotionally.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah. Yeah, if he can, he's already very far emotionally. So I mean maybe you're right.

SPEAKER_09 24:49

Yeah. No, I'm not saying I'm not telling you what to do. Okay. I'm just saying if your goal is to get him to be more open and transparent, it does not sound as if this is the way to do it because you tried it before and you and you have a pretty good uh track record of how he's gonna run continue from there. Now, it doesn't mean that it can't be done, but I'm thinking the way you want to do it sounds like it's gonna backfire on you.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, that sounds about right. Joe, what do you think about her? I mean, if the goal here is I want him to know that I love and accept him, then what about saying something just as simple as, hey, I know, I know that there's something in between us. I don't know what that is, but I just want you to know that I love you. And whatever it might be, whenever you're ready to talk about it, I'm here and I want to be able to work through it no matter what it is.

SPEAKER_09 25:45

Yes, yeah. I think that's much more likely to work because first of all, you're not attacking or accusing him of anything.

SPEAKER_07 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 25:51

It's all me, just of what I feel, this is what I think, this is what I would like to have happen. And people become much less defensive when that occurs. So I think that that has a much much, much higher likelihood of success.

Motivational Minute Do Not Quit Early

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah. Yeah, I know we I mean, uh it sounds, Christine, that you're just so fixated on wanting the affair to be exposed, but really you only want it to be exposed. I mean, of course, you want it to be exposed so that it's out in the open, you can deal with it, all of those things, but really it's because you want him to know you accept it. So just uh work towards the acceptance anyway, because you can't force him to tell you the truth about the other thing. But the more he feels accepted now, then long term the more likely he's going to want hopefully feel safe to open up about telling you about the affair in the future. Okay. Well, let's go to Michael's motivational minute. Michael, over to you.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Hey friends, there's a famous story about a man who invested all of his money into purchasing a gold mine. And he began the process of digging and digging and digging. And over the course of about 18 months to uh almost two years, he was never able to find any gold. So he sold the gold mine to someone else, and within three weeks, they were able to break through on the other side and find gold. See, the man gave up just a little bit too soon. And maybe that's where you're at right now when it comes to your marriage, when it comes to your marriage crisis, when it comes to looking for solutions. You are just maybe right on the cusp of having a breakthrough. You're maybe just right on the other side of seeing the situation for yourself change. And that's what we're here to do to help you. At Marriage Helper through our workshop, through our coaching, through our community, we want to help you break through so that you don't just win the jackpot of gold, but so that your marriage and your entire life can be transformed and changed.

Caller Michael Rebuilds Trust And Backbone

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Always love hearing from Michael. Let's go to our next caller, who is also named Michael. Michael from California. How can we help you today? Are you there, Michael?

SPEAKER_04 28:14

Hi, are you there? Yes. I am uh so I I don't know if you rephrase my question. Um my wife filed for divorce. Um, she's really angry. I broke her trust.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Um how did you break her trust?

SPEAKER_04 28:38

I just I'm just a liar about lots of small things. And then that uh, you know, there needed to be financial disclosures with the divorce. So then I actually had to finally tell her sort of how much I'd been struggling at work and that I had some debt that I used to pay bills. Um I also, you know, I told her I was a porn addict, um, even though I think I'm just sort of like a distraction addict. Um, but I just, you know, we have young kids, and we both were very sad, I think, and alone in the marriage for years. But um someone from my my Bible study, now that I'm back in church, has really been in my ear of like, you just cannot give up on this marriage. Um but you know, she basically wants me gone. And you know, part of she's probably advocating for herself. But part of, you know, her what she says is basically like you should, she tells me you should walk with all the debt, you should leave me all the equity in the house and all of our money. Um and that would be the kind of man I might consider being with in the future.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Hmm. Did she know about all of the lies before she filed for divorce, or did that come out in the divorce?

SPEAKER_04 30:04

She knew, you know, there'd be stupid little lies, right? Like, did you take out the trash? And like, I don't know, it's some sort of like, you know, it had become sort of like a mothering relationship. And I would feel I would just like answer immediately, right? Did you take out the trash? Yes. And I didn't. And I'd be like, why would I do that? I don't know. It was rebellious, right? And then during divorce is really where I'm like, well, I got some news for you. I, you know, have this debt that I was using to pay bills. Part of it was to pay for her business. And because I was always sort of on my back foot and thinking, okay, I'll get, you know, I'm I'm gonna get my own business back up and running, and I'll make money and I'll pay the debt down, and then I can kind of like have a more assertive conversation with her. I was putting a lot of money into her business and not getting she was putting all the profit into her bank account, but I was paying, you know,$10,000 a month to support her business.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

You have separate bank accounts?

SPEAKER_04 31:07

And then that became so she maintained accounts with her parents, but then she was on my bank account. Um, I paid all the bills always.

SPEAKER_09 31:19

So are you feeling like you need to be punished? Yep. Are you feeling that you need to be punished?

SPEAKER_04 31:27

Uh I I said to her, I I do I feel like no, I don't think I need to be punished. I know I betrayed her. I have immense regret. Well, let me give you a question.

SPEAKER_09 31:38

Let me tell you what I've heard, and you tell me if I'm right. It sounds to me, and if I'm wrong, just tell me I'm wrong, but it sounds to me that what you're saying is this that you resented her, you resented her taking control, you resented her doing this, that, or the other. But at the same time, you kept giving her everything. For example, you'd put$10,000 a month into her business, whatever profit she made, she kept, and you didn't get any beats of it, and that that you would lie, even about things like taking out the trash because you didn't want to feel like you were controlled or dominated. And now that she's telling you, well, you need to pay all the debt, you need to do all of this, you need to do all that, uh, that you sound as if you feel that you deserve that you should have to do all those things. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_04 32:24

Um no, I don't think so. Uh and I I don't did I, yes, did I start becoming sort of resentful, feeling right, like I had no power in the relationship? And then I, you know, I was like, I don't want to like seek power to seek power. Um she's a very forceful personality.

SPEAKER_09 32:45

And she's running all over you, isn't she?

SPEAKER_04 32:49

Yes, correct. And this is how her parents' relationship is. And I you know, my perspective is what she saw is the mom just absolutely dominates the dad.

SPEAKER_09 33:00

And now she's absolutely dominating you, and you're letting her do it. Correct. And so by letting her do it, you're not getting her respect.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

Are you no, no, yeah, of course not. She outright told me like years ago I don't respect you.

SPEAKER_09 33:17

That's because you're not standing up to her, young man. You can't let her continue the pattern that you learned at home with her mom because it's a bad pattern. I'm not saying you should be mean, vicious, and cruel. That's never called for. But but standing up to her and saying, no, I put$10,000 a month into your business. And and therefore, you should be giving me back part of your profits. And and uh if you have a good attorney, then you can make those things happen. I'm not trying to advocate for your divorce, but I'm saying unless you stand up and demonstrate to her that you have a backbone, which apparently her dad never did, but unless you stand up and demonstrate that you have a backbone and say, no, I'm not gonna put up with this, then it's just gonna continue to go downhill. Now, this is my view. Kimberly, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Are you a compulsive liar in other areas of your life, Michael?

SPEAKER_06 34:10

In what?

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Are you a compulsive liar in other areas of your life, or is it only in this relationship with your wife?

SPEAKER_04 34:21

There have been times I would lie to people randomly about stuff, but a lot of it would be these like dumb little lies of like, oh, I'm gonna get in trouble. I said I would do this.

SPEAKER_09 34:34

Yeah, we call that a get out of trouble liar. Which which makes me again, Michael, is saying the same thing, my friend. You're gonna have to stand up and develop a backbone. Not just to her, but to everybody.

SPEAKER_04 34:45

Well, here's the Yeah, here's I mean, look at like I don't, you know, she is we still live together right now, but she wants me every day, she wants me out. I can't really have any it's weird. She'll she'll want to tell me about her day, and then she'll immediately flip and you know tell me to shut up if I try to talk to her about anything. So I shut down, I don't know how to engage with her. Um I just kind of get quiet, and this is I think part of you know makes it worse my family growing up and my makes it worse since divorce. Um I just don't, you know, I just I don't have any thought of like how to get her just one more time. She thinks we did everything possible. I don't. We tried some therapy, but we never really did homework. We I also think at one point we had a really bad therapist. Probably once I the marriage really got bad in the last year, you know, I started going to Bible study. I started hanging out with guys from the church, I started a men's group for like the lying and the porn, which has been incredible. Good. Um she's been hanging out with single mom with a bunch of moms that are getting divorced.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Oh crap. Oh my. Okay, so Michael, what are you gonna do? Are you just gonna let this happen or are you gonna do something to stop it?

SPEAKER_04 36:05

This is what I don't know what to do, and this is the hardest thing in my like porn recovery group. There's all these guys that cheated on their wives like 10 times, and their wives are still in. And I'm like, I was like, I was lying to my wife, and she's out, and like money, I think she would have preferred I had an affair than I had debt. So I just I don't know what to do. Um I'm trying to be I'm sort of running full speed at becoming who I want to be, high integrity, like disciplined. I was a weak man. I I except I was like weak, and I I kind of curled up instead of being like, you know what, no matter what, my marriage is falling apart, I have to go full speed at making money. I, you know, I just kind of like an addict, I just curled up in the easy path of distraction. Yeah, well, stop that.

SPEAKER_09 36:53

And but stand up and be a man, Michael. Show her your backbone. Let I mean I'm not talking about dictatorship. That's bad. Nobody wants you to be that. Sure. But be the man that that you need to be, and and don't let some of these things happen, my friend. You can stop this. And if you say, well, it might cost me my marriage, it's costing your marriage that you're not doing it.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Speed at who I want to be. The problem is like I'm not I'm doing little things that I think will make her happy, but every day she's mad about something. Like last night I bought the wrong shrimp and she exploded. What did it cost us? It cost us 10 more minutes to make dinner because I bought the wrong shrimp. But you know, I get it, like she's so annoyed with all these little things. But I it's not like going out of my way to try to please her. I'm focusing on myself, which is a little bit selfish. Um, but also like to me, it seems like what she would want out of me is like me to dump a ton of money into deferred maintenance on the house that I'm about to walk away from, dump a ton of money into her car. Strongly recommend that.

SPEAKER_09 38:03

I strongly recommend that you not do that. Stand up, I'm gonna be it be a guy. Right now, she's dominating you, she's controlling you, she's manipulating you. Sure. And only you can stop that. And and you're gonna have to stop that. You really are. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Now one last consideration, because she's just so angry, you know.

SPEAKER_08 38:27

Yeah. Oh.

unknown 38:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Michael, I what was that last consideration?

SPEAKER_09 38:34

I didn't hear it.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

I'm sorry. No, no, that's what I'm saying. Like, I just I I'm completely lost. I'm like, you know, it it you know, I think once we're separated, that it's only going to reaffirm.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

I don't I don't think you're lost, Michael. I don't think you're lost. I think you're talking yourself in circles. Yes. You are you're bringing in every possible thing that's happened that could happen. Well, what about this? What about that? And that's what has to stop. You have to stop talking in circles and you have to just begin to do things different. You just have to change the way that you act and react to her. You need to stop caring about what she how she respot caring. If you did something wrong that led to that, okay, apologize, move on. But she's trying to keep you in trap. She's trying to keep you under her thumb so you'll do what she wants you to do, and you need to, you need to mentally stop caring about that. You are gonna have to like just grow a backbone. I would recommend that you get a coach, one of our coaches here at Merrithelfer, who can help you learn how to act in a way that it will get your wife's respect. It doesn't mean you become a douchebag, but it means that you do need to not let her run all over you. And part of her running all over you includes you ruminating about every single aspect of this. So, Michael, you have to stop. You have to move forward, get a coach. Highly recommend that you get a coach with us at Marriage Helper because we can actually help you do this and in a way that's going to be most likely to save your marriage.

SPEAKER_09 40:14

Oh. Okay, we need to go to Jason right quick, unless we have another We don't we don't have another segment today.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

So let's go to Jason from Iowa. Jason, how can we help you today?

SPEAKER_05 40:27

Hello guys, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Hi, doing well. How are you doing, Jason?

unknown 40:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:32

Wow, I can call on you guys, so I'm not doing too good. So my wife wants to separate. Um and there's been betrayal and trust issues on both of our ends throughout the entire marriage. Um, what brought me here today is I suffer from some substance abuse problems that I had under control for a couple of years. Um when we first started uh dating and then getting married, I was using and hiding it, and she didn't find out for a few years, and then you know, there's obviously cheating and betrayal that came along with that, and um I stopped everything and was on the street marrow for a good couple years. Good for you just recently. I was I found some stuff in her phone because I've had a hunch, and the things that I seen just really tore at my self-esteem and making me feel just tiny. So I started. Can you give me an example of what you're talking about? Um so when she found out about my usage in cheating, she did the little playback, you know, re revenge thing and went with her youngest son's dad, and they started having an affair. Um the things I read were just like they were just back back like square one, like I love you, how it's work. Um the thing she was saying about their sex was just shit. She's stuff she's never said to me.

SPEAKER_09 42:02

Okay, and so she's still involved with him.

SPEAKER_05 42:06

As far as I know, no, right now, no.

SPEAKER_09 42:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 42:09

She's had something going on with her other son's dad for I never had like really concrete proof until recently, but I still don't know the extent of it, but I know it's lines across and it's just entirely inappropriate, whatever the heck it is that they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

How many different dads are involved?

SPEAKER_05 42:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Okay, so these are the other daughters together too.

SPEAKER_05 42:35

Yeah. And how long has she been with you? I'm not really um we were just about to hit five years next month marriaging.

SPEAKER_09 42:43

And how long ago was she involved with this one of these dads?

SPEAKER_05 42:48

So when I found the stuff in her phone back in November, it was very old. It was from three years ago when I did, you know, when I got caught. So it wasn't fresh, and I've seen the text messages that were current, like they're back to obviously not liking each other because maybe it's because we're still together or what, but it did it did look like it stopped, but I didn't keep going with it.

SPEAKER_09 43:09

Um how may we help you?

SPEAKER_05 43:11

Yeah, like what can we do for you? So she wants to separate, and I found out about this by being paranoid and like spying on her. Um she had talked to everyone in her family about it besides me. Like I was the last to know, of course, and I only knew because I confronted her. Well, she wanted to leave and separate because she didn't use separate with who she was talking to, it was divorced, divorce, divorce, whatever. Um because she suspects I was using again. And I was. I mean it wasn't confirmed, but I was using, I won't lie. But at the time, like this all blew up last week, I had been clean for over a month and a half. I I didn't tell her, of course, I'm not gonna tell her like I'm clean again because it was a battle I was fighting with myself. Um but now I just wanna know, like, she wants to separate, she's trying to get a new house. Um but she wants me to give her Six hundred dollars a month to support this, and I just feel like I don't know what the hell to do. Like, should I let her go or I just feel like if I were the one suggesting this, she'd say I was running away from my problems, and and I don't know why she can't stay in the house and I can leave. I can find somewhere to stay for free and she can stay there with the kids. We don't operate the kids and I don't have to waste a bunch of money.

SPEAKER_09 44:22

Do you think she would possibly come to the uh the workshop with you so we can help you guys think this through together?

SPEAKER_05 44:30

She said she's open to to marriage counseling at some point, but we can't be in the same house while we do it, she said. But to get back to the problem at hand, like I know she's having an emotional affair right now, and I'm clean. I'm not clean for very long, but I'm I got therapy sessions scheduled in the near future to work on myself. What part of the country are you in? I'm not using drugs. Where are you, Jason? I'm in Iowa.

SPEAKER_09 44:53

Oh, okay. Iowa, that's right. So would she go to the workshop with you if you were not in the same room?

SPEAKER_05 45:01

Uh I think I hope so. I think maybe.

SPEAKER_09 45:04

Well, see, we have an online workshop. We I would love for you to come to the in-person workshop right here in Middle Tennessee, just south of Nashville, because I would love to meet the two of you, that kind of thing. But we also have online workshops, and sometimes we have couples in the online workshop who are actually in two different places. Like we had one, he was in Antarctica, and she was like in Central America or something. It was kind of wild how far apart they were. Uh you could actually be in different houses if that's if that's what would make her comfortable. We had one couple start off the way he was in Chicago, and she was like in Houston. And so after the first day of the workshop, he flew to Houston, and the second day he was there with her.

SPEAKER_07 45:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 45:43

So I'm saying you can come to the workshop as a couple and attend as a couple, but still be in different places. If she's willing, because in in those workshops, Jason, we can help you learn and her, learn a whole lot about what's going on here and and about what to do.

SPEAKER_05 46:02

I actually got a I got a phone call with somebody from your guys' camp today at four to discuss a solo workshop. Excellent. At least starting it on my own. I gotta get started on something.

SPEAKER_09 46:12

Excellent. Well, at least do that. That's the place to start. We as Kimberly said at the top of the program, we uh we've recently been having a lot of people come to the workshops who first started in the solo workshop and have just come now again, bringing their spouse to the next workshop, which does get a significant discount. That would be great. Whomever you're talking to, my I'm I'm gonna recommend, Jason. Of course, it sounds like I'm prejudiced because I work here, but I'm gonna recommend that that you actually enroll in that solo spouse workshop. Let us teach you as much as we can in three days. It'll be revolutionary, my friend. Revolutionary. And then you guys podcast.

SPEAKER_05 46:54

Sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

What was that, Jason?

SPEAKER_05 46:58

I'm sorry, I think I started talking. I should have let you keep going. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

The uh the thing I really care about too for you, Jason, is that you can get to a place. You mentioned you want to work on yourself, and I think of course I of course I think everything should everyone should. But what I want for you is that you don't turn back to using whenever your self-esteem gets hit, whenever you find the whenever you find these text messages, because that's what has to happen for you and for your kids and for your future. And our solo program isn't net isn't specifically gonna help you stop using drugs, but it will help you get your confidence back, find your peace, get your self-esteem back to where you won't want to turn to that again, because you don't want to turn to that. I know you don't want to turn to that. You just can't let these like you can't let your wife's current reaction and emotions towards you influence you to turn back to those things. And we can help you do that for sure.

SPEAKER_09 47:57

Now, speaking as an addict uh who's been in recovery for many, many years, uh Kimberly was almost right. You will want to. But what she's saying, and I agree wholeheartedly, is that you'll have the strength not to. Love for you to come.

SPEAKER_05 48:15

But what about like so her and I talked last night, and at this point it's like it's starting to make her mad because I just keep wanting I want to keep talking about it and thinking of stuff that I didn't ask before. And I've been listening to you, I drive around for work, so I've been listening to podcasts literally for eight hours a day the entire week. I've I know where I'm messing up. I've been controlling, I've been doing all kinds of stupid stuff. But like I know she's having an emotional affair with this person, and she's refusing to because I asked her last night, I said, have you cut off this guy? Like, I cut off using I I deleted block my the guy that I get stuff from. Like I'm already making steps. It might not seem like anything to her. She said, She said, No, I haven't, and I'm not going to. He's a client from work. I said, What do you mean?

SPEAKER_09 49:02

Like You see, that's the thing that we can help. When when she finally comes to the couple's workout with you, either together in person here or online in different houses, whatever it might be, that's where we can help. That's where we'll help her understand and see some things and think about it a little bit differently. I wouldn't push for that right now if I were you. Right now, I wouldn't even think about the guy. Don't think about him. You can't do anything about him. No, you work on you, Jason.

SPEAKER_05 49:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:31

I know. I've I came to that epiphany this morning that there's absolutely nothing I can like. I listened to one of your episodes about control, and are you controlling in the quiz? And I said, damn. Certainly in controlling. I have been. It wasn't all five questions, a yes, but at least three of them were. And I was like, damn, dude. I said, Yeah, I'm certainly controlling. And uh yeah, I know. There's nothing I can do about it.

SPEAKER_09 49:59

Enjoy your four plug session with our guy. And uh I look forward to meeting you soon, Jason. I hope it works out. Thank you.

Caller Marcos Cheating And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Yeah. Joe, let's go to Marcos from Florida. We happen to have a guy named Marcos. Who used to live in Florida. I know. I'm like, is this Marcos calling in as like a series? Yeah, that's what I was liking when I looked at it. I thought, hey, is that Marcos? Marcos, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_09 50:28

Great. Marcos, you don't sound like you feel great, my friend. How may we help you?

SPEAKER_06 50:34

I do not think.

SPEAKER_09 50:38

What can we do for that?

SPEAKER_06 50:40

No, I do not feel great, but um long story short, um a bonehead. I messed up my marriage. And he's filing the paperwork tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

So what happened? Why is she filing tomorrow?

SPEAKER_06 50:57

Because I cheat on her.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Um how did she find out?

SPEAKER_06 51:02

The first time it happened, we swept it on under the rug. She never won I I wanted help. I wanted to go to town scene, I wanted to talk to the password to everything. And and at least confess my sin and get away from it, and there was never that opportunity. I tried to get her to have all the passwords for my phones and anything, which she does, actually, she's always had it. But for her to have uh control over my devices and everything, and she didn't want that to shut down. And then subsequently, of course, it happened again.

SPEAKER_09 51:38

Marcos? Marcos right now, and I keep Hey Marcos, you're making it sound like it's somebody else's responsibility to keep you from doing this. Is that what you really think, Rafia?

SPEAKER_06 51:50

No. I it's to establish the trust so she can't.

SPEAKER_09 51:56

But you said because she didn't help you, because she didn't help you, you wound up doing it again. Is that what you said?

SPEAKER_06 52:07

Partially I was never able to actually get to the root cause of my of my issue, which I believe maybe is what contributed to me falling again from the same trap a second time.

SPEAKER_09 52:20

No, Marcus, I agree that we need help. Okay. I I said just a few minutes ago, for example, I'm a recovering addict. I would never be able to do that by myself. So I understand. I get it that we need help. But at the same time, we can't expect a responsibility to become somebody else's. It has to be ours ultimately, don't you think?

SPEAKER_06 52:41

So then I guess the question is just what could I do? Or what should I do about that? How can I I don't know what I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 52:52

And that's a that's a brilliant statement, by the way. I wish more people would think that. I don't know what I don't know because that's where you start, my friend. What what part of Florida are you in, if I may ask?

SPEAKER_06 53:05

Great city, Miami.

SPEAKER_09 53:07

Great city of Miami, it's a big city. And the the affair, was it with the same person each time? Did I lose you, Marcus? And it wasn't really an affair.

SPEAKER_06 53:22

It wasn't really an affair.

SPEAKER_09 53:24

No, I think. No. Okay. So what's precipitating these things? You say it's not really affair. What's going on?

SPEAKER_06 53:39

I don't know. Within myself, to be honest. It's just um I'm not focused. I I I believe that I'm seeking something weird. And um when I feel like I don't receive it, I I I do I do stupid things.

SPEAKER_09 54:00

Well, welcome welcome to the club, Marcos. We all we all do stupid things. Yeah. We're running out of time here, so here's my suggestion for you. If you would contact us, I think that you would really dramatically benefit from working with one of our coaches. And and I think you also, if if you would make time for it, would dramatically benefit from coming through our three-day intensive for for solo spouses. You can either come to them online or you once a quarter, we do one for men here in Middle Tennessee. But uh you sound to me like a good man who who, like you said, I don't know what I don't know. And I I think when somebody says that, that's gold, because that means, okay, there is something to know. We'd be happy to help you learn that. Either through through our coaches, if you want to work through them, or coming to our solo spouse workshop, okay, one or the other. Uh, do you know how to contact us?

SPEAKER_06 55:01

Hello?

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Can you start that over, Margos?

SPEAKER_06 55:05

No, no, I do not. Uh never even encountered your website. I I actually find you guys through YouTube, scrolling YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Did you find us today on YouTube or did you find us a couple days ago?

SPEAKER_06 55:17

No, ma'am. I found you a couple of days ago, and since I drive a lot and and I usually go to sleep listening to YouTube, that's pretty much what I've been binging on for the last couple of days. I see. Well, I just want to know if there was even hope for this. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

There is hope. Marcos, I have your number written down. We have it on our screen here. Is it okay if I just hand this over to someone on my team and have them give you a call today?

SPEAKER_06 55:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

Thank you, Marcos.

SPEAKER_09 55:44

I actually appreciate that. You sound like a good guy, Marcos. We want to help. We really do. Okay? Okay. All right, take care, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

All right, Joe. Well, we are at the end of our show for today.

SPEAKER_09 55:57

What happened to Nathan's grounds?

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Coffee grounds under Nathan grounds? I actually don't know. I think it's um, you know what, he's just preparing an even better drip for next week.

SPEAKER_09 56:13

Well, I've been gone for a couple of weeks. I didn't know if we were still doing it.

How To Reach Us And Closing

SPEAKER_01 56:16

Oh, yeah, we are. We are for sure. He has great ones. Well, if we can help you, please contact us. You can go to our website. You can even call our office 866-903-0990. We'll have all of that in the show notes. We'll put it in the chat. We're real people that are here to help you save your marriage. Until next week, remember, there is always hope.