When You Feel Like You're The Only One In The Marriage

This week's live show, streamed on March 18, 2026

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Transcript

When Busyness Feels Like Abandonment

SPEAKER_05 3:15

Welcome to Mary Chelper Live. I'm Dr. Joe Beam. Glad to have you with us today. You know, several years ago, um, kind of a religious scandal. It wasn't really a scandal per se, but a lot of people in the religious world were shocked. When Dr. Charles Stanley, a well-known minister from Atlanta, Georgia, who had television programs that were broadcast all over the world, and known not as one of the televangelists, but as a man who was really a biblicist who taught the Bible. The world was shocked, or the religious world at least was shocked, when his wife divorced him. Now, Dr. Stanley has passed on, he's with Jesus now, and so has that wife. She's gone as well. But I want to talk about it because when people ask what happened. Now, was there an affair when it was not? Was there some kind of terrible thing going on in your marriage? Uh not really. But when they ask her, why did you divorce Dr. Stanley? She said, because I felt alone. He was busy all the time, he was gone all the time. It was like I didn't have a husband. And even in one of his own books, he talked about the fact that in his ministry he stayed too busy. That's a quote, by the way. And so let's talk about that for a while. How does it affect a marriage if one spouse, either the husband or the wife, is so busy doing other things, so involved in other things that he or she is not there very much for the spouse. Is that a cause for people to want to be out of a marriage? We will talk about that. Because when you look at the research, the top three motivations that people have that lead them to want to be out of a marriage is I don't feel like you love me, or I don't feel like you like me, or I don't feel like you respect me. Now, to talk about this, we're going to get a little bit personal because my special guest today is not my daughter, Kimberly Holmes, but my wife, my beautiful wife, Alice Beam.

Our Second Chance Marriage

SPEAKER_05 5:15

Now, for anyone who happens to know our story, let me just give it to you briefly. Alice and I are in our second marriage to each other. We were married for the first time for 15 years, and then I divorced Alice, and I left her for another woman, which was a tragic thing, by the way. And it took about three years for me to come to my senses and finally come back and ask Alice if she would be willing to take me back. She manifested a lot of grace, a lot of mercy, and she forgave me and she took me back. And so now we were trying to put the back together a marriage that I had destroyed. Now it wasn't always easy because of the fact that some of the things that had led to our problems were not yet fixed. But in the room of what we're talking about right now, Alice. It wasn't long after we remarried that I was off traveling all over the world, uh, particularly across America. I was doing corporate speaking for people like Sears. Uh for you younger people are used to be a store named Sears, and they were all over America. And for United Artist Cable and for many people like that. So what I would love for you to talk about is how did that affect you that we'd remarried? We're trying to put a marriage back together, you've been very gracious to forgive me, and and now, not too long into that marriage, I'm flying away quite a bit. So would you mind telling folks how that affected you?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Wow, you know, when I think back on that, Joe, it was a very difficult time. We had just gotten back together, not that many, probably a year, year and a half, we'd been back together and we were working on things. And like you said, not everything had been fixed, but we were really working toward, you know, our relationship becoming good again and getting close to each other again. So when he started traveling a lot, it was kind of a mixed bag of things because he was paid a lot of money.

SPEAKER_05 7:21

And that was nice.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

That was nice. That was nice. But what it did, because the more he spoke and the more he was out there, because he is fantastic at what he does. You know, he is my husband, but he is very good at what he does. And even in the business world, people were really wanting him to come and do things for their company. So more and more he would be gone longer. And what was difficult for me, and I'll have to go back to our first marriage, y'all, if you'll just indulge me for a moment.

Travel, Money, And Triggered Loneliness

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Okay. In our first marriage, I did not feel like I had a voice. Okay, so I I did not I did not feel comfortable disagreeing with him or telling him things that I really felt that would be negative, if you understand what I'm saying. So in the second marriage, when things were going, you know, we were putting things back together, things were going well, and he began to travel, what I found myself not able to do was voice how I felt about it. How I really felt about it. Why didn't you why didn't I feel that way?

SPEAKER_05 8:40

No, no, why didn't you voice what you were feeling about?

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Well, yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry. Um, because I was still in, you know, we were in the infancy of putting everything back together, and I was still kind of walking on eggshells. I had not come to be the person, my own person fully yet. I was working my way up to being able to stand up to him, to be able to say what I felt. So it had not been that long that we were to get you know back together. And I did not want to do anything that would that would sabotage. Yeah, sabotage.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

So let's ask you a question. Obviously, you were in the driver's seat. You were the one that had chosen to forgive me to take me back. That's right. So since you were in the position of power, if you will, why did you feel you had to walk on eggshells?

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Because of 15 years before. Of the 15-year marriage we had before when I didn't feel comfortable, where I felt like I just needed to accept everything that he said and not if there was any disagreement, just keep my mouth shut.

SPEAKER_05 9:56

And what? What would I do? Go ahead and be honest.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Okay, you would shut me down. He would. He would shut me down. He doesn't mean that. No, no, no, not anything physically, but just uh why do you feel uh you know, why? Why do you feel that way?

SPEAKER_05 10:14

You know, I would keep asking you questions until finally you just gave up.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

I just gave up because it was easier just to give up than it was to try to explain the way I felt. And I hope this is making sense.

SPEAKER_05 10:26

It's making a lot of sense. And I and I didn't realize how badly that was affecting you because you were afraid to tell me.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah. I was totally afraid to tell him. I'm not now.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

No, she's not.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Not as much. I mean, let's go back.

SPEAKER_05 10:42

No, she's not afraid now.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

She'll tell me. I'm not as afraid now, but I I was then.

SPEAKER_05 10:49

And when you say not as afraid now, you're not afraid now at all.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

I'm not afraid now. No, I'm not afraid now.

SPEAKER_05 10:55

You just try to be gentle in the way you say it typically.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

I do. I try to approach it in a different way. I try you know, over the years since we've been back together, what I have learned and what Joe has shared with me is I try to understand where he's coming from with things. And why he, you know, why things why he feels the way he does about things and things like that. And I see try to see it in his perspective. And I think he's he's he I don't think he does that with me too. You see more where I'm coming from and why it means so much to me.

SPEAKER_05 11:37

Because sometimes you'll actually say that. I don't think you're hearing me. I don't think you hear how I'm feeling, how I approach this.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Right.

SPEAKER_05 11:44

And and do I listen?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_05 11:47

At least most of the time. Most of the time.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

I'm not grow, you know, the same here. You know, we're not per but we are we are gr we are good with it. We really are.

SPEAKER_05 11:59

So so in this second marriage where you're afraid to tell me what you're thinking, and I'm gone a lot, I guess the positive side was I was bringing home some pretty nice checks.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

You were bringing home money. You and it was nice, but it did not take care of the loneliness I felt, of of the um retros thinking about what it was like for the three years that we were divorced, that I was, you know, I felt so alone then.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

So I was still triggering some of those negative emotions. You were triggering by being gone alone.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Yes, of the emotions.

SPEAKER_05 12:37

I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:40

Okay. So this went on for a while.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

It did go on for a while. It did.

SPEAKER_05 12:45

Um by the way, so you guys can know, uh about half of that travel was speaking for churches. And I guess you also felt like, well, if he's doing good, he's up there speaking for God. I shouldn't be selfish about that. And then about about half. Oh, by the way, they didn't give me the big checks like the corporations did. And but the other half was for the corporations, and they were giving me some pretty nice checks. So how long did it take for us to begin to change that?

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Oh, wow. When I think back over that, I think really, honey, I think it came within me too. It's not, guys, it wasn't that I did not trust I I trusted him. I absolutely trusted him. I did not think he would ever, you know, have an affair again or anything like that. And you know, that's a h another whole subject that we won't go into, but I I trusted him. But it was just those triggers of feeling that loneliness and you know, by myself with the girls and um and just not having, you know, we would go places, you know, even to church or whatever, and families would be there. And and it was just like it was almost like, well, I'm back to being single again.

SPEAKER_05 14:08

Is that how it felt, really?

SPEAKER_02 14:10

It did at times. But you you were asking how long did it take to get over that? I would say probably just a year or two. I mean, I think.

SPEAKER_05 14:19

Tell the folks how we got over that.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

How we got over it?

SPEAKER_05 14:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

How did we get over it? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_05 14:27

Well, both you and and our children, particularly Kimberly, who was our youngest child, began to tell me.

Finding A Voice Without Fear

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Oh, yes. Yeah, the girls, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:37

That that you're not here for us, we feel we feel left out, we feel abandoned, and that gave me more courage to tell me the same kind of thing. And that's when finally we decided, now this went on for a while until finally I thought, wait a minute, I've got to find some way. And I still need to make a living. And in the meantime, we had started working with marriages.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Marriages, and then yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:59

And that got tough financially because I wasn't making all that corporate money anymore.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

And we decided, as you recall, we needed to move to either uh Dallas or Nashville.

SPEAKER_05 15:13

Mm-hmm. And the reason we thought about that was because of the fact that I could still speak for a lot of churches and do what we need to do in our organization here where we help marriages and families, but I wouldn't be gone as much because it'd be like a driving thing. I could drive over there and speak and be back that night. Uh whereas we lived in Augusta, Georgia, or at least in Augusta, Georgia area. And if I if I had to go anywhere, I'd have to fly to Atlanta, wait a couple of hours and then get on another plane and fly out to wherever that was. Whereas in in Nashville and Dallas as well, then there are a lot of direct flights. So, for example, if I were going to be on the Today Show, NBC's Today Show, I could fly out one afternoon and fly back the next afternoon. Yeah and and not be gone those long periods of time that I was. And so we decided to do it to move.

Moving Cities To Save Connection

SPEAKER_05 16:02

But did the move scare you?

SPEAKER_02 16:04

You know, the move didn't scare me. I was actually looking forward to the move. And and when we were, because it took us about a year or so to work it out. It did. It took about a year or so to work everything out. And the thing that worried me during that year and a half, what if this doesn't work and we're not able to move? Because I felt like it would just you know, because Augusta was where we the first place we lived after we got remarried. It wasn't the same house, but it was the same area. And I felt like and even with um, you know, with Kimberly, she was born there. Um, but even you know, I felt like that it would just be the a great new start. To go someplace new. Yeah. You didn't tell me that.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

Well, if you did, I don't remember, but you know I'm amazing.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

I mean, I was so excited to move to Nashville. And well, it it was just so we planned it out.

SPEAKER_05 17:12

Alice actually came up to Nashville when I was still in Augusta. She found the house.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yeah, me and Ellen.

SPEAKER_05 17:17

My sister-in-law, my brother's wife. And they came up and they found the house. I never saw the house. We bought it.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

We did.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

Yeah, you came up and and you found the house. We bought the house that way, and then we moved up and moved the entire company. Some of the people we had to leave in Augusta because they didn't want to move, and so they ran our ministry there for a while, while the rest of us moved up and started it in Nashville. And and uh that all happened the same time at 9-11 occurred, which meant that we had a lot of financial difficulties because all of our donors to the nonprofit that we were using then at the time uh all of a sudden weren't giving because everything was in in flux. You know, what's gonna happen next, and business was up and down and et cetera. And so not only were we now living in the same house, but we didn't have any money. That didn't worry you too much, did it?

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Because it was like we were still I knew we were going to make it. I had I knew in my heart that somehow this was going to work out, that God was on our side, that we were doing a good thing, and it was somehow going to work out.

SPEAKER_05 18:32

And so am I right to assume that it was more important to you that we be together and not be traveling all the time than to have money.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:43

Then you folks may have some questions for Alice about this. And if you if you call in with a question for Alice, we will actually give you precedence over other people out there. But it's time now to go into our phone calls. But before we do that, let's go to Michael's motivational minute.

Box Breathing For Calm

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Hey friends, the number one tool that I've used in order to get calm is a technique called box breathing. It's very simple. It's where you breathe in for a count of four seconds and then hold for four seconds, or sometimes I do two, and then you exhale for four seconds, and then you hold again for another four to two seconds. It goes a little bit like this.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

You breathe in, two, three, four, hold, two, three, four, release two, three, four, hold, two, three, four.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

And you do that a handful of times. And I have found that in meetings, in difficult situations, in traffic, before I'm gonna say something that I need to get some clarity on, I use this technique and it helps me get calm. And I hope it helps you get calm as well.

SPEAKER_05 19:57

Thank you, Michael. Michael does a great job. He uh he works with a dust in various capacities here. We enjoy Michael a lot. Let's go to Doug from St.

Caller Doug Learns To Listen

SPEAKER_05 20:06

Louis. We'll make him a first call. Hello, Doug. Are you there? Hi, thanks for checking my call. You're very welcome. How may we help you, Doug?

SPEAKER_08 20:18

Well, I was curious about how to move forward with conversation with my wife. She told me about the separation in early January, moved on and a half in January 30th, and then two weeks after the stricter communication boundaries to where she just wanted to limit it to only. And I've been hearing that for last week on Monday, and notified if you want to learn a green, and the conversation we have with what does that mean? Um the conversation that we hear with about two and a half hours long is from we covered a lot of reading from I don't think it was a few of that unfolded in a two and a half hour long conversation. We finished the conversation with her summarizing it as a good. And the next day, she thinks the different energy about me. And I asked what she means if she described that kind of conversation that was perhaps the hardest conversation in our relationship. Um I did not have any defensiveness, I did not have any anger, I didn't try to explain or justify anything that I had done.

SPEAKER_05 21:52

So let me ask you a question. When did she move out?

SPEAKER_08 21:57

So we we she we ended up getting Because she described me as being all of those things. Defensive, not present in conversations. She felt like she couldn't share anything with me because I would react to it poorly. I would be I would take everything she said as criticism instead of just perhaps a a thought that she had, or maybe it's just her preference, or maybe she just was sharing something she thought was interesting. I took everything as criticism to the point where it ended up making her shut down. Now she in that conversation last week on Monday, she described having a dysregulated nervous system and not feeling safe to share things with me because it overreacts and gets defensive.

SPEAKER_05 22:38

Do you know where she got that terminology from?

SPEAKER_08 22:43

I I don't know where she got that from, but I do know that she's been reading a lot of self-help books over the last several years.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

Okay. And so what I'm hearing you say is that Alice, it sounds like she felt a lot like you felt in her first marriage.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Absolutely. Sounds so much like me.

SPEAKER_05 22:58

So do you kind of relate to what she's saying? I was hearing similarities. So you kind of relate to what she was saying?

SPEAKER_02 23:03

I can kind of relate to what she's saying. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 23:06

So why do you think then, Alice, based on the fact that you've been pretty close to where she is, why do you think that she felt differently about Doug the next day after that long hard conversation?

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Because I feel like now, you know, this is just the way I feel. I'm not a counselor or therapist or anything like that, but from having been where kind of where your wife is, you know, thinking like that, I feel like she saw you in a different light when you actually sat there for two and a half hours or whatever it was and actually listened to her and didn't have any negative feel feedback in our workshops. We we referred to that as horsemen, you know, defensiveness and things like that. Uh where you didn't come back at her, but you you let her talk and you listened and you actually heard what she was saying. That's the way I feel.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

Sounds good to me, Doug. So how how may we help you, my friend?

SPEAKER_08 24:08

What I what I'd like to know is in the days since last week on Monday, um so she she mentioned it the day after. She mentioned it again on Thursday where she reflected back on the Monday conversation. I felt like I might have done it wasn't the whole conversation was unplanned. She walked into the house to clean some closure and she left. None of that was orchestrated, it was just an organic conversation. What I'm wondering is, did I do enough to change the identity that she had built around me to where I could try to introduce more relational conversation? And if so, how do I how do I try to get her engaged in those conversations? Or is it too soon? Do I still need to I understand consistency and time?

SPEAKER_05 24:57

Well, let's let's ask Alice, and she went through much the same thing. Let's get her opinion, then I'll give you mine. What do you think, Alice?

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Well, I think that personally, I think you don't need to push it to just let it happen naturally, like you said. Just don't put don't try to plan any, because you didn't try to plan this. It just naturally happened. It was a great thing. It was fabulous. I mean, really. There's so many people out there that are listening, I'm sure, that are thinking, oh my goodness, I wish this would happen to me. You know, like this. So, Doug, I think you ought to just kind of chill. And just as y'all are together, just naturally let things happen. And don't try to plan anything or sabotage or manipulate her. You do not want to do anything to manipulate her.

SPEAKER_05 25:50

Now, this is coming from a person who is probably a lot like your wife. Yes. Is is your wife a person that's kind of um uh very warm person but processes before she acts?

SPEAKER_08 26:04

She is, yes. Uh she thinks before she speaks. In most occasions. I guess there's a couple of times where she might be able to do it. She generally thinks before she speaks. And she is intentional with all of her all of her decisions and actions. She's very intentional with them. Uh she came over on Sunday to just to visit. And when she came over on Sunday, she wore, she chose to wear a sweatshirt that I got for her for her birthday this year. And when I noticed it, I just said, Hey, nice shirt. And she replied with thanks, I wore it for you. I wasn't even expecting that.

SPEAKER_05 26:42

Things are going your way right now, man. So uh here's our recommendation.

SPEAKER_08 26:48

If I'm hearing correctly, your your advice is just pump the brakes, count on more organic emotions or whatever, and and react to those. Yes. In the meantime, just be present, is is yes, yes, is what I'm adding.

SPEAKER_05 27:02

Because your wife and and my wife, Alice, are apparently very similar. Okay. And and I'm glad she's here. Uh maybe this is a god thing for you, Doug, that she's here with me so she can speak from somebody who has been where your wife is. And so I would take her advice on this. No, when when she does open up and she's warm, respond the same way, but don't push her any further than what she's willing to do at the time. Uh, as you were saying a minute ago, consistency and time are crucial. But Doug, right now, all the signs are favorable for you, my friend. Sure is.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Sounds great.

SPEAKER_08 27:40

Thanks, because it's it stresses me out that I want it, I want more forward movement, but I I understand that I'm I'm gonna have to move at her pace.

SPEAKER_06 27:50

Exactly. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 27:53

And so whenever you start to want to push a little bit, you just see Alice's face and and and she's saying, Stop it. Take your time and chill. And and let her be the voice for your wife right there to help you do that. Doug, I think that you've got things going very, very well for you right now. Don't blow it, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Yeah, and she's the processor. She's the processor, she's thinking. Yeah. So just let her process and you be like.

SPEAKER_05 28:20

Yeah. I'm happy for you, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

I am too. Sounds great.

SPEAKER_05 28:25

All right. If we can help you, call us back, let us know, my friend, okay? All right. Thank you. Thank you, Doug. Take care. Yeah. I think that that woman and you are sisters.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

And the love alive, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:39

Um, because she sounds a whole lot like you. And Doug sounds kind of like me.

SPEAKER_06 28:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:43

And that's that when she was trying to talk, he would hear the criticism, which was me, and I'd respond and defend myself. And so um, Doug, this this makes me happy that this conversation has taken place, and you just take your time, my friend. Take your time. Okay, let's we're gonna go to Marshall in uh Michigan.

Caller Marshall After Affair Disclosure

SPEAKER_05 29:05

Hi, Marshall, are you there? Uh yes, sir. So are you snowed in, my friend?

SPEAKER_07 29:13

Uh I'm not really from Michigan. I thought I threw out an anonymous name and location.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

Yeah, well, see, if you just said yeah, it's it's twenty twenty three twenty-four feet high, I would have never known the difference. It's okay for you to be anonymous. So, how may we help you, Marshall?

SPEAKER_07 29:31

Um my wife uh I told her about my affair um this Sunday, and she left that night. Uh, she went to go stay with some family, and then the next day she came back, got some stuff, uh, left. Um and we haven't really spoken since. Uh, she's had her own thing with someone online for a couple years, doesn't really know him, doesn't really know what his face looks like, but she seems to have a little thing for him. What what do you mean then? Um she she wants well, she's had her own affair, I guess, emotional affair, and um with a guy that she doesn't even know what he looks like.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Online, that's what he said.

SPEAKER_05 30:13

Okay, that's what I'm saying. Okay, so Marshall, how long have you guys been married?

SPEAKER_07 30:18

Uh seven years.

SPEAKER_05 30:20

Seven years. All right, and and uh I'm I don't want to pry, but can you give me just a little information about your affair? How long did it last? How did it start? And is it over?

SPEAKER_07 30:31

Uh it's over. Uh it's it was going on for a couple of years. Um and um yeah, it's it's over and that that happened for a couple of years. I I what was the other question? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

Well, i i okay, that's what I'm gonna know, it's a couple of years and it's over. How did it start?

SPEAKER_07 30:50

Um, I reached out to her. Um I I don't really know what made me think about it. It's just I just reached out and one thing of course led to another.

SPEAKER_05 30:59

Okay. And so why did you tell your wife?

SPEAKER_07 31:04

Uh she kind of uh was acting kind of strange all week and uh it felt very tense around the house, and so I just I don't know. She blew up out of nowhere on Sunday and just stormed out of the room and said, uh, you uh you cheated on me and you cheated on me, and I had been it's been waiting on me for a while, and finally when she just asked me about it, I I just told her.

SPEAKER_05 31:23

Okay. So you just told the truth when she asked. What made her do you know what made her think or what made her realize that you were cheating on her?

SPEAKER_07 31:32

Yeah, yeah. She uh unfortunately found uh some underwear in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_05 31:37

Okay, so she had she had evidence that you were doing it. Okay. Are you sure she's been having an emotional affair for a couple of years? Are you positive about that?

SPEAKER_07 31:49

Yeah, I've seen the messages.

SPEAKER_05 31:51

Um have you uh confronted her about that in the sense of asking her what that's about.

SPEAKER_07 32:00

Yeah, I have, and um uh she says that she just feels like uh, you know, she feels listened to, she feels like she can talk to him about things. It's just it's so I I know I should listen to her about some things, but it's a little uncomfortable sometimes because she talks about like supernatural, like spiritual stuff, like uh tarot readings and uh um astral projections and things like that. And so I don't know what to think of it sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 32:25

Did you ever ask her to stop the interaction with that guy?

SPEAKER_07 32:30

I have, and she told me that she she won't. Well, actually she uh she hasn't spoken to him in four months, so she says he's deleted his accounts and um hasn't heard from him since, but this is this has happened before where he's deleted his accounts and then he just comes back out of nowhere. Okay. So you think she's still involved with him? I don't know for sure. I don't know yes or no.

SPEAKER_05 32:54

Okay. So do you think that that she was um and I I don't know how to ask this any other way, so forgive me if it doesn't make sense. Do you think she was relieved or happy to find out that you had had an affair so that she could justify leaving you?

SPEAKER_07 33:12

A little bit of both, because she did admit some guilt uh that she had some guilt of her own, called herself a hypocrite. Um uh I I don't know. She did cry a lot and she was shaking. Um so I think she might have felt both a little bit in a way.

SPEAKER_05 33:27

Okay. Did did she make any statements about still loving you or anything like that?

SPEAKER_07 33:34

When she came to get some things, we did hug for a good moment and gave each other a kiss on the cheek, and uh we did tell each other we love each other still. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 33:43

So how may we help you?

SPEAKER_07 33:47

I'm not sure where to move from here because she we used to have shared locations. Uh we used to talk to each other all the time. Um she disabled her location. Um she told me to stop asking her mom because she she's been sick before and she she spiraled thinking that people were poisoning her, that people were out to get her parents. Like it just it it became a whole she had a deep infection and it didn't didn't fit well with her, obviously. But um I was worried that was what was going on again. But she won't take a t I mean she took the test with her, but she hasn't told me if she's taking it or anything, and she told me to stop contacting her family about it and asking her uh which I reached out once to each of her her cousin and her mom, but um I haven't reached out since. I haven't reached out to anybody since. I've just kind of been okay.

SPEAKER_05 34:34

I kinda kinda got lost in all this. When did you tell her? I told her this Sunday. Okay, and she just moved out. Yes, sir, on Monday. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 34:45

And and you do or don't know where she is? Um, I believe she's at she was at her cousin's. That's where she told me she was at.

SPEAKER_05 34:53

Um that's the last thing I know. And you're telling me that she's paranoid about being poisoned and things like that?

SPEAKER_07 35:00

Uh not this time that I know of. Uh this time she's been saying that one of her exes is coming out to get her or me. Um the last time she was saying that it was my ex coming to get me and her.

SPEAKER_05 35:11

Okay, so she is somewhere to paranoid. How if I may ask, how old is she?

SPEAKER_07 35:16

Uh she's in her early 30s. Okay, how old are you?

SPEAKER_05 35:20

Uh 32. Okay. All right. So your specific question then is what, my friend?

SPEAKER_07 35:29

Um, what can I do from here?

SPEAKER_05 35:32

Okay, you said you're talking every day. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_07 35:36

No, we we have uh we used to talk every day, but we used to talk every day.

SPEAKER_05 35:39

Have you heard from her since she left? No, sir. Okay. All right. The first thing to do is give her some time here. She's got to process the fact, you know, she found the the the the the clothing and and she confronted you and you admitted it, which actually is a good thing that you did. So thank you that you did. And give her some time. Give her some time to process, give her some time to think it through. But at some point, uh if you have any way to communicate with her, either by email or text or any other way, and I wouldn't do this immediately, I'd let at least a couple of weeks pass. I would uh send just a very simple text saying something like, uh, I know I hurt you, I would appreciate a chance to talk to you, and then leave it at that. In other words, don't push hard, take it very easy. But if at some point she agrees to talk with you, then you guys have got a lot to talk out. Now, uh it sounds like that that her beliefs are more into the new age kind of thing, is that correct?

SPEAKER_07 36:38

Uh I I wouldn't really know what to call it, but um Okay.

SPEAKER_05 36:42

It's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_07 36:44

And what belief system, if any, do you have to Um I I mean I believe in God, but uh I'm not like uh I don't go to church regularly. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 36:55

When you say you don't go to church regularly, do you go to church at all? Nothing. Okay. All right. My my recommendation then, right now, uh you have to give her some time. But after two or three weeks, just a simple text, and if she doesn't respond, don't send another one until another two or three weeks. After another two or three weeks, in other words, you've got to be very patient here, something to the effect, and again it can't push her, just like I still love you, I'm sorry I hurt you. I would love to talk when you're ready. And that that's all you say. You don't push any further than that. If she genuinely still loves you, my friend, if there's still love for you in there, at some point she's gonna respond to that. Now, if if she doesn't love you at all, then she's not gonna respond to that. But you said that she hugged you and that she gave you a kiss on the cheek, is that what you said? And that she says she loves you, correct? Yes, sir. Do you believe that?

SPEAKER_07 37:54

Um in the moment it's hard, but uh I I don't know right now.

SPEAKER_05 38:00

Okay. Well, why don't we just take her word? So that'll be my recommendation right now that you that you do it that way. And if you and uh one thing, if we have online over a thousand free videos. If you go to youtube.com slash marriage helper, all one long word, marriage helper, marriage helper. We have videos on all kinds of topics there, and and I think you can find some there that will help you in the meantime know what to do and how to do. And those are all free. Okay.

unknown 38:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 38:36

Thank you, sir. All right, you're very welcome. Uh I hope this works out. If you do get some kind of contact with her, and and if she does start to respond, then we can help you better. So that'd be the time to contact us again, okay? All right, you take care.

unknown 38:53

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 38:55

Uh I didn't hear. Our producer is talking to me, and I thought it was God. This is interesting. Okay. Our producer is talking to me, but I didn't understand what he said. Here's what we're gonna do. Our telephone number, if you would like to talk to us. Good grief. I can't see that. 615 912 2998. That's 615-912-2998. If you would like to talk, call there. Our call we screen, and we'll talk to you. We've got some calls waiting, but right now what we want to do is to go to Coffee Grounds with Nathan Grounds.

Coaching Story Of Real Change

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Hey guys, I want to tell you about a couple that I met last year at an in-person workshop in Nashville that I was leading. What drew me to them right away was the fact that it came to everyone's attention, because they announced it to everyone, that the two of them had been divorced for three years. You'd think a couple who'd been divorced for three years would not be at an in-person workshop, but that was the case with these guys. We later came to learn some of the reason why they were divorced, and it had in a large part to do with his temperament. The gentleman, at least in front of us, was very nice, easy to talk to, very friendly, but apparently he had undergone some major life changes to get to that place. Because, according to himself, the guy that he was before that was nothing like the guy sitting in the room. He was kind of hot-tempered, very strong-willed, uh, ready to fight at the drop of a hat. And he also was a bit of a player, had had multiple affairs. Surprisingly, he made some major changes. He started doing some of the things that we would teach him to do even without finding us. And those changes resulted in him and his wife coming to an in-person couples workshop. After the workshop, they started coaching with me, and we started moving through what we call the e-system of exploring reconciliation. And while we have not finished the process, the transformation that I have seen in the relationship has just been phenomenal. There have been many issues that we've been working on through the process, but one in particular for the wife at least, was feeling like she was the one responsible for the relationship. Whenever there was an issue in the past, it was always up to her to initiate some kind of repair. And, you know, it could work in theory, but she was always, at least for her, felt like she was placating to him and his emotions. And she's saying, if we're gonna be able to reconcile, I need you to take some initiative. I need you to be the leader. I need you to share what you're thinking and feeling without me constantly moving to you and asking you. He held space for that. He accepted how she felt. And in the course of time, he's made some tremendous changes, which has resulted in her softening to him, coming over a little more often, doing things together as a family, planning regular activities with one another, and it's just been so neat to see the warmth between the two of them. When we talk so much about these workshops, part of the reason we do so is that we see what it can produce in the stories like the one I just shared. And so if you're on the fence wondering if you should get your spouse to come or if you should join a solo, I just can't recommend it enough. I hope to see you there. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_05 42:30

I always wonder if he really has coffee in that cup. I don't know if he does or not. By the way, if you come to the workshop, Alex if I'm doing

How Forgiveness Became Possible

SPEAKER_05 42:40

the workshop, and often uh if it's an in-person workshop here in in Middle Tennessee, we do both online and in-person. And typically, even if it's Nathan leading the in-person workshop here, or Jamie or David, and they're all well trained and they do a great job. And they also do online programs, but if they're doing one here in Middle Tennessee, or sometimes I'll be leaving the one in Middle Tennessee, then typically, no, it's not every single time, but typically Allison comes to the workshop with me on Sunday. And and the reason for that is because people like to ask her questions.

SPEAKER_06 43:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:16

Particularly about how could you ever forgive Joe? And why did you take him back? And and how could you ever trust him again? Now, without taking as long as we do in the workshop, take about two or three minutes and give a summary answer to those things that you get asked in the workshop, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Okay. Well, I hope I can do it. Remember, I'm a processor. But yes, uh, when Joe asked me if I would uh consider taking him back, I told him I had to think about it. I didn't know. Uh, you know, because I had uh I had gotten to a pretty good place where I felt really good about myself. Uh but the two weeks I took to think about it that I told them I was gonna think about it, I was asking everybody's opinion, because n everybody just said I shouldn't take him back. Wrong thing to do, 'cause never trust him and all that. But the thing that I could not get past was what if I do take him back and it can be a different relationship. I knew I did not want the relationship we had. I did not want the same marriage like we had. I wanted to be able to have a voice. And on the other hand, I knew that if I told him yes, there was no guarantees. You know, I'd be going into it just not you know, I don't know if it's gonna work out or not. I I had actually already seen uh been seeing someone and and the more I thought about it that two weeks I thought, you know, everybody has baggage. Everybody has baggage. But what I knew with Joe is that I had 15 years and two children. And I could not imagine those children not being with their di uh their dad. And what I could not imagine is telling him no and then wondering the rest of my life, what if I had? What would it look like?

SPEAKER_05 45:24

Oh I'm glad you didn't. So uh I am too. How could you forgive me after what I had done?

SPEAKER_02 45:29

Well, because uh you had to forgive me. I mean, uh you know, everybody thought I didn't have the affair, I did. I know you didn't, but there were things that I did that was not Yeah, I could have been more there for you. I could there were things that I did that I felt like.

SPEAKER_05 45:52

You're not taking responsibility for my decisions.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

I am not taking responsibility for his affair. That was him. But I had to forgive myself for some things that I did that I knew weren't good for the relationship.

SPEAKER_05 46:07

And let me clarify that. She hadn't done anything wrong or bad. She's talking about the fact of not being there for me emotionally and not supporting me and things like that. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_05 46:17

And then if we had more time, we'd talk about how we rebuild trust and stuff like that. And maybe we'll bring you back for another program if people say. As a matter of fact, if if you want Alice on more of the programs, not she doesn't have to necessarily be with me, she could be with Dr. Holmes, Kimberly, our youngest daughter. And if you want to see more of Alice, then put it up there on the chat, just right in there. We want to see more of Alice. We'd like to have more questions with her. And and if you if you just want to say, no, just get rid of Joe, that'd be what we want. Then you can put that on there as well. Okay, we have a call here from Susie in Florida.

Caller Susie Living With Infidelity

SPEAKER_05 46:51

Susie, are you there?

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Hi, Dr. Joe. Thank you so much for taking my call.

SPEAKER_05 46:59

You're very welcome. How may we help you, Susie? Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Can you hear us?

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Yes, Doctor.

SPEAKER_05 47:05

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Yes, hi. Um, my husband and I are separated, and so we still live in our home together and and we share meals together. It's my it's by my husband's choice. Um he's currently having an affair. He's in Mimran. And his affair partner is from another state, and so he would go um, you know, probably like once a month or you know, just to see her. Um, it's been very uh it's been very hurtful, very painful for me, uh, Doctor. Um last April we signed up for your Marriage Helper workshop, and he went with me under Dureth. We did it online and he was resisting and he he was very angry with me. And especially when they were speaking about limerence, he said, Well, why can't people just live live their their their lives? And so the reason why he separated from me uh Dr. Joe was because of the lack of intimacy in our marriage. I started to have um perimenopausal uh symptoms, and so I was not as intimate as he would have liked.

unknown 48:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

And I did not understand what was going on in my body, right? And so I went to many doctors to try to get help, and I would o they would only prescribe antibiotics. And so I could not it it was I didn't know.

SPEAKER_05 49:04

So did this precede his affair or uh in other words, the the the fact that he became sexually frustrated, did that happen before the affair?

SPEAKER_00 49:15

Um he was, yes, sexually frustrated. He would send me videos talking about how the lack of sex would hurt marriages, but he never really told me how he felt. He was a very good idea.

SPEAKER_05 49:27

Okay, and how long did that go on? And where he was sending the videos and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

It w it went on where he would occasionally for for two years.

SPEAKER_05 49:38

Two years. And at what point did he get involved with the other person?

SPEAKER_00 49:43

He's been involved with this person for over a year now. He met her. Um, they play an online game together, and he he he played on his sympathies.

SPEAKER_05 49:56

Do you know anything about her? Like how old she is or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 50:00

I I don't know, uh I don't know her age. I don't know her age. I apologize for the background noise. I had to step outside.

SPEAKER_05 50:10

That's okay. So you don't really know anything about this woman, but you know that he goes to see her every so often.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Right, and she's uh she lives in Tennessee, and uh she she was divorced, she's divorced, and I'm not sure if she has children.

SPEAKER_05 50:29

So are you divorced?

SPEAKER_00 50:32

No. We're not we're not. We're still together, we're still uh living at home. Do you ever have sex with each other now? No.

SPEAKER_05 50:43

Okay. And when you say he's living together, does he sleep in the same bedroom with you?

SPEAKER_00 50:49

No, sir.

SPEAKER_05 50:50

Okay, but you say you share meals together. So are you having conversations? Are you communicating with each other?

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Yes, we do. We we we we speak to each other, we talk to each other casually. Um, I treat him as a friend. Okay, as a friend as a roommate.

SPEAKER_05 51:09

All right. So how may we help you? What can what we what can we do for you?

SPEAKER_00 51:14

I well, my husband, as I said, he blames me for 100% of our failed marriage. And he has a lot of anger and resentment towards me, Dr. Joe, for not giving him the the the sex, I'm sorry, for being so blunt that he needed, and he doesn't trust me anymore.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

Doesn't trust you in what sense?

SPEAKER_00 51:43

Right, right. And he says that we're not equally yoked, and no amount of scriptures from the Bible will help in our situation, and that he he he's thinking about getting a divorce, but doesn't want to rush into anything.

SPEAKER_05 52:02

That's kind of interesting, don't you think? The fact that he's still living in the same house with you, the fact that he's not rushing into a divorce, he's angry with you without a doubt, but he's still living with you. So apparently he's not ready to go be with this other woman, wouldn't you think?

SPEAKER_00 52:20

Right, but uh uh that's what that's what I that's what I think. He said he wants to make sure that we're financially secure.

SPEAKER_05 52:29

How old is he?

SPEAKER_00 52:31

And so my go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 52:33

How old is he?

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Um, my my husband, he's uh 50, 51.

SPEAKER_05 52:42

Okay. So what we have going on here is he's gone to the online workshop, he got angry when he heard about limerence, he's been involved with this woman for about a year, and yet he still hasn't uh done anything about leaving the marriage. He's still married to you, he's still living in the same house. Now, if indeed it is limerence, and it sounds like it is, but if indeed it is limerence, it at some point's gonna start to fade. Which means that if he keeps dallying like he is now, at some point this relationship with this other woman is gonna come to an end. Here's the question for you. If it ends, do you still want to be married to him?

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Yes, I do, Dr. Joe. I I love my husband very much, and I want him to come back to the Lord, and I want him to come back to me. I want my marriage to be safe.

SPEAKER_05 53:34

Good. I want it to be as well. Are you using or have you used the coaching that came with coming to the workshop?

SPEAKER_00 53:44

I I I use uh the smart contact, I I use the the the pies, um, and I also signed up. I was in in uh Kimberly's workshop about for the pies that she had recently for six weeks.

SPEAKER_05 54:00

Did have you worked with one of our coaches?

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Um yes, I worked uh I I worked with with Scott. He's wonderful, but because of my husband ha does not want to pay for the marriage helper workshop, and I'm the one who's still paying for it.

SPEAKER_06 54:22

I see.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

And I'm not as financially secure as I am right now, so I I couldn't afford any more. I understand, Susie. I get it.

SPEAKER_05 54:32

I get it. Well, Susie, it kind of boils down to this. I think you have a lot more control of the situation than you think you do. He's still living in the same house with you, he's still eating meals with you. I'm assuming that you prepare those meals, or at least somebody does, and and he's not ready to pull the trigger on ending the marriage. You know, sometimes people do what they're allowed to do. Now, if you're happy with the situation as it is right now, then indeed what you can do is just continue to live this way and hope that at some point he gets past delimerance. If you're not happy with his it is as his right, is I'm stumbling over my language here, Alice, as it is right now, then what you can do is you can you can demand that something happens. What I mean by that is you can say, look, either you stop the contact with her or you move out of the house. And and you have the right to do those kinds of things. Now I know that you want to stay in the marriage, and I'm all for that. And I hope and pray that he comes to his senses. So, Susie, the only two choices I see for you right now, either you continue to tolerate what you're living in at this moment and hope that the limerice ends and he comes to his senses, or you will do something such as seeing an attorney and go ahead and saying, nope, we're gonna stop this, and hope that by doing that that you can bring him to his senses. Now, for all those other people out there listening, I typically do not recommend that you go find an attorney and and make a final threat thinking that's gonna straighten your spouse out. Because you never go see the attorney unless you realize that that might be the end. So you don't use it as a threat. You don't use it as to manipulate the other person. You only use it when it's like, okay, something different has to change

Boundaries, Self-Respect, And Closing

SPEAKER_05 56:24

now. Well, Alice, we're almost out of time here. What else would you like to say to this good girl?

SPEAKER_02 56:29

Well, just stop.

SPEAKER_05 56:32

Summarize summarize what you learned about not putting up with being ignored.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

What I Okay. What I learned from standing up for myself is that uh that I feel better about myself and that Joe respects me more, and I totally have more respect for myself. Uh but what amazed me is the respect that I gain from him from doing that.

SPEAKER_05 57:02

Because of the fact that you act and acted in a way and and basically demanded by your behavior that you will not.

SPEAKER_06 57:09

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 57:10

You will not ignore me anymore. You will not live your life running off here, there, and everywhere. Now, you know, because I've gotten older, not as many churches invite me anymore, and very seldom do corporations do that now. By the way, uh Alice and I would come together now if you want to invite me to come speak for your church or your organization or your business, uh, because now we can travel together, which was difficult when you had young children at home.

SPEAKER_06 57:38

Right.

SPEAKER_05 57:38

But sometimes you just have to say, I will not accept being treated like this.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

Right.

SPEAKER_05 57:44

Is that scary?

SPEAKER_02 57:46

Not as much. Not as much. I mean, there's sometimes now that, you know, I have, of course, you know, that I say, you know, I feel like that you don't respect me in this matter.

SPEAKER_05 57:58

In this particular matter.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

In this particular matter. It's not many, but you know, but I have the courage to do that. And I really feel good within myself when I do that. Because I feel like for me it's the right thing, and for you, it's actually the right thing that I tell you that. But that you don't know unless I tell you.

SPEAKER_05 58:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 58:18

They don't know. You you have to voice it for them to know what it is.

SPEAKER_05 58:22

It's hard to read the other person's mind.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

Right. And it's not fair for you to be mad at the other person when you have not told them, you know, what you're angry about because they have no idea.

SPEAKER_05 58:36

But that happens all the time. Well, he should just know.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

Right. And he can't know unless you tell him.

SPEAKER_05 58:43

I appreciate that. Alice, thank you so much for sharing an hour with us and coming on the program. Again, if you guys would like to see more of Alice, then let us know. You can put it here in the comments to Kelly there, who is operating, or you can call us and tell us then. But uh, I've enjoyed having you on the program. Kimberly is in Virginia or West Coast.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

She's in Virginia, West Virginia.

SPEAKER_05 59:04

She's in West Virginia conference. She's somewhere on the East Coast, and she'll be back next week. So thank you very much for watching and hopeful to see you next week on very cool line.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

Thank you.