Counseling vs. Marriage Helper Coaching... What's The Difference? – MH LIVE

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Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:10

Most of the time when people feel like it's time for them to get help for their marriage, the first thing they think to do is get counseling. I need to go see a marriage and family therapist. I need to go see a licensed professional counselor. And there are definitely times and places for that. But then there's also coaching. There's marriage coaching, which is making a rise for sure. And so the question becomes for many people: what is the difference between coaching and counseling? And how do I know which one I need to do? What can I expect from each one? How are they actually different? And so we're going to be diving into that topic today. And to do that, I have my friend Meredith Ball with me today. Meredith is also one of our marriage helper certified coaches, as well as an associate licensed professional counselor, which means she is very, very close to being a full LPC, just like months away.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:08

Yeah. So she's been doing the work, been doing a lot of work, has counseled tons of people and coached tons of people. And so who better to have this discussion with than you?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:19

Yeah. What's the difference between coaching and counseling?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah, I would say if I were to sum it up in just a few sentences, I think I would focus on coaching, be all being a little bit more practical and forward looking. So what behavioral changes am I going to focus on today, right now, to start making forward progress? So I might think really practically in terms of, you know, I'm going to do these two or three things, right? In the case of marriage helper, I'm going to really be focusing on the marriage helper of principles. What does it look like to practically put them into play for myself and in my marriage?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Counseling tends to be, and there's a lot of different kinds of counseling, but counseling tends to be, um, at least at some point, a deep dive into the past. So if there is some way that I'm showing up today that feels dysfunctional or feels like it's not serving me well, then I want to figure out where that came from. Classic example is maybe it came from childhood. Um, most of us have ways of showing up in the world that date back to when we were kids. So you don't want to be backward focused forever. If you have a counselor that tries to keep you there forever, that may not be a very good counselor. But there can be benefit in going back and trying to figure out where that comes from, where dysfunctions come from and reworking them for the sake of showing up differently. So I would say counseling is more of a it tends to be longer term, tends to be more of a deep dive. Counseling can include components of coaching where you just get really practical about like what does this week look like for me? Um, but it's a little what's psychoanalytical, right? Trying to figure out um psych psychologically where things are coming from.

SPEAKER_07 3:08

When you think about the types of situations that we see here at Marriage Helper, people where their spouse is in an affair, their spouse has filed for divorce, they're separated, those are kind of the key issues. What when you think of it situationally, what should people think more towards leaning towards coaching for versus when should they think I should lean towards counseling for this?

When Each Option Helps Most

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah, it's a great question. Because I would say most people that I've worked with at Marriage Helper could benefit from both a coach and a counselor. And I understand that can be expensive, so I'm not saying you have to do both of them simultaneously, but coaching is going to equip you using marriage helper principles to give your marriage a fighting chance. So I've heard Dr. Joe say many times, if anything works, this is going to work as it pertains to your marriage. You're here because you want to save your marriage. Um, and for many of you watching, you may feel like that's an uphill battle. It often is, right? And so you need patience, you need endurance, you need somebody who is cheering you on. You know, you think of a football coach or a baseball coach, a person standing on the sidelines going, think about this and think about that, and get your head in the game and do this and don't do that, and don't worry about that other player over there, right? And so you're really just practically pretty singular, singularly focused on what do I need to do? And of course, often it means looking at yourself, right? But what do I need to do practically to give my marriage the best chance? Now, why I say a lot of marriage helper clients that I've worked with could benefit from a counselor is most of them are impacted by trauma. Right. And that's going to require looking backwards and understanding where that trauma is coming from so that you can work it out of your brain.

SPEAKER_07 4:58

So it's two different issues that conflate over one situation for many people. Absolutely. And maybe that's why it can be confusing of well, what is coaching going to do for me and what is counseling gonna do for me? Counseling is really gonna help you go back and understand where the feelings and thoughts and behaviors within yourself are stemming from. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

And, you know, one of the questions that I probably get most often as a coach when we're especially when we're talking about pies work, is how do I work my emotional pies? Everybody, it's easier to understand how you're gonna work the other three, but that emotional pie can feel a little bit elusive. And so I have some different ideas on that, but I do feel like one of the best ways you can work your emotional pies is potentially to go and see a therapist and do a deep dive on, you know, if you're a person who is either overly reactive or overly withdrawn, um, most people identify with one of those two, then figuring out where that came from.

SPEAKER_07 5:56

Yeah. You and I did a podcast episode over a year ago on trauma. And this is something that you've done a lot of your kind of your study in counseling on trauma. Would you say it's your specialty? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah.

Emotional PIEs And Trauma Defined

SPEAKER_07 6:12

That you sort of so for people who are listening, first of all, help them understand what the emotional part of pies is. And then what is trauma?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yeah. So we talk a lot about pies at Marriage Helper. That is becoming the best version of yourself physically, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually. So being the healthiest you can be, body, mind, heart, and soul. So, and you know, sometimes you don't you don't necessarily have to pigeonhole fit that. There are things that you could pursue that would be good across the pie spectrum. Right. But, you know, typically, you know, when it comes to being healthy physically, we understand most of us could say, hey, I could stand to eat healthier or do something about my sleep hygiene or go to the gym. Okay. That's how you would work on your physical pies in terms of intellectual pies. I can be a learner. What am I interested in? How can I challenge myself intellectually? Spiritually, I can spend more time in my personal devotions, I can get involved at church, those types of things. But that emotional pie could feel a little bit more elusive. How do I become my healthiest and best self emotionally? Okay. So what I encourage people to think about is where do you feel like your emotions are outside of your control often? Right? Where are you not showing up as your best self emotionally? And, you know, we talk about attachment styles at the workshop, at the Marithelper workshop, but often it looks like anxiety or avoidance, disassociation. Like I feel like I'm overfeeling everything, over-identifying with my feelings. So I find myself being angry and upset a lot, right? Or I just find myself kind of tapped out. Life has been hard. And I have dealt with that by um kind of checking out on meaningful relationships. I kind of avoid intimacy because it hasn't gone well for me. So that is trauma, right? That is registering registering in the limbic part of your brain. And it is not necessarily something that you are choosing. It is your amygdala perceiving threats and going off, causing you to either become anxious or avoid situations. Okay. So it may not be enough to just say, hmm, I think I should quit being anxious. Let me flip my anxiety switch over here and turn off the anxiety, right? It may require the help of a trained professional to help you understand where that's coming from so that you can build new neural pathways and have it be working with a different brain.

SPEAKER_07 8:50

And the way that that's done in uh trauma-based type of therapy is things like EMDR.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

EMDR, brain spotting, internal family systems. Uh, there's a lot of somatic-based techniques that are popular in the therapy world that can help you heal. So if you're doing that kind of work, it is going to show up downstream as a healthier you if it's done well. It's a healthier you who shows up in relationships in a way that you feel better about.

SPEAKER_07 9:22

But in and of itself, honest, like honest question, honest answer, in and of itself, if someone's trying to also save their marriage, but there's the trauma that they're dealing with from their past, is the counseling just based on their trauma going to be enough to help them save their marriage?

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Rarely would I say that that's the case, right? So I want to fire on all cylinders. If I'm noticing that if my marriage is in a bad place, what's going to happen is that is going to open me up to learn more about myself. Right. So I want to call marriage helper in to be the experts in helping me to save my marriage. And through that process, I may notice what's what's often going on in a marriage crisis is uh old scar tissue is getting tapped on, right? You already had abandonment wounds from the past. Now your spouse is threatening to leave, or your spouse is in a relationship with someone else. Well, guess what? If you had anything in the past that even felt like abandonment, your amygdala is going off, right? And part of why that's so hard is not just, it would have been hard enough, but part of why it's so hard is you're being reminded of unresolved trauma from the past, right? And it's not going on in your frontal cortex, it's going on in your brainstem and in the back part of your brain. So what will often happen when people come to workshops is they actually have been in therapy and they actually have some really good insights and some really good self-awareness around the trauma, but they haven't had a marriage saving specialist teach them those skills.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

So I think that they are, I I've told clients before to think of, you know, a therapist and the marriage helper program as kind of like two parallel lanes. You know, we're certainly not contradicting each other. I would hope that we're not. We're helping you go in the direction you want to go, but it is two different specialties.

Trauma Therapies That Rewire Patterns

SPEAKER_07 11:23

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I want to start going to some callers, but some questions that I'm gonna be asking Meredith coming up are how do you find a good coach or and a good counselor? Is it the same thing you're looking for? Is it different? And we're also gonna talk about structurally how do the sessions actually look different. But before we go to our first caller, first of all, if you have questions that we can answer, give us a call. 615-912-2998. 615-912-2998. And I also just want to let you all know that one of the things that Meredith said is very real, which is it can be expensive to do therapy and also get coaching for your marriage. And so we're actually launching something brand new that we've never done before at Marriage Helper. It's called the Coaching Lab. This is the most affordable way that we can provide coaching for you to actually help you work through specific steps, very forward-focused in the things that work, the marriage saving principles that work to help you save your marriage. And it's gonna be done in a group coaching format. You're gonna have a dedicated coach. It's gonna, they're gonna guide you through these eight weeks with up to six other people in your group. And we've made this very affordable for you to get started. It's eight weeks. We're doing a founding price, like a founding entry point price for people who join this week by Friday, where you can get all of the eight weeks, plus we have teaching sessions that are gonna go through and teach you uh separate from the coaching lab that you'll be able to join a couple of different times a week and teach you the actual content. But then you actually have the time where you can join your coaching lab with your group, with your dedicated coach, and get the coaching experience there as well. And so you're getting all of this, plus a brand new Marriage Helper app, which has some Marriage Helper AI in it, which is really cool. It's Kimberly approved because Kimberly hates AI, but I love this AI. Uh, and you get all of that normal price is$797 for the eight weeks, about$100 a week, which even at that is a great price. But when you join before Friday, you'll be able to get those eight weeks for$497. So saving$300 off when you use the code EarlyAdopter. And Meredith's actually helping us with the group coaching of this and how it's going to be structured and how it's going to work. And so after the after the first call, we're also going to ask her a little bit more about that for those of you who are interested. But first, let's go to Shannon from North Carolina. Shannon, how can we help you today?

New Coaching Lab Offer

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Okay, um my husband and I have been married for 26 years. We've been together for 30. Um, we have a 13-year-old, and he has been in an up he's been having an affair for over three years. Um, he moved in with his affair partner. Um December made a year ago, and their that their child, who is a year old now, and I have been standing, I have been fat, and I have been doing everything I can possibly think of to do. But um he is he's feeling Lambert and should I feel um should I feel stay here and fight day after day for this marriage? Um and in our son, it took us I have multiple sclerosis, so it took us years and years to have him. We finally he's a miracle. We finally got pregnant after going to a fertility doctor. So he's a miracle and for him to leave us for somebody else and baby. I I don't know what to do. Um I don't know what to do. Oh shit should I feel should I feel cute fine for this? Because it's like he's a whole different person. Like he's so mean and cruel and cold to me.

SPEAKER_07 15:35

I'm so sorry, Shannon. I just want to give you a hug. It's such a difficult situation. Right. My heart goes out to you. I know my heart goes out to you too. Shannon, I mean it hurts. I know it hurts. How are you doing yourself right now? Take your take the the situation going on in your marriage. How are you personally taking care of yourself right now?

SPEAKER_04 16:01

Um now really good. Um I have started doing um projects around like projects around my house and my yard and um gave me strength. Oh my god. That's the only way I could find what he learned, what he is um having to experience his his very open um within the woman in your child. Um but anyway, I I think I'm taking pretty good care of my feel like how's your and how's your son handling all of this? He I don't know. He he does he doesn't say anything. I do I never bring attention to this. Um he he keeps everything inside, and a couple of times I have asked him um if he wanted to talk about anything, and he says no, and he does not want to talk about it.

Caller Shannon On Long Affair

SPEAKER_00 17:31

And Shannon, that's very typical for a 13-year-old boy. Okay, they're not gonna verbalize their feelings developmentally. That's difficult for them, and just socially, that's difficult for them in the social spheres that he's in. He's probably not used to hearing his peers talk about their feelings. So I want to normalize that for you. And I would also encourage you, you can still build him up. You can talk to him about feelings, things. You can probably make an educated guess as to how he's feeling and you can validate that, right? So with teenagers, especially, especially teenage boys, um, I've heard shoulder to shoulder can actually be more effective than eyeball to eyeball. So take him for a drive, um, take him out to do something fun, and you don't have to make it awkward, but you can say, I know this is a really difficult time, and I bet you're really hurting. And uh, I just want to tell you that I see that and I notice that, and I see you continuing to to do the things that that you're asked to do, and and I know that can't be easy. And I'm here for you. And I promise you he's soaking that in and he's hearing it.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

And on down the line, you'll hear about how much it meant for for him to to to get that validation from you.

unknown 18:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

That's really good, Meredith.

SPEAKER_07 18:49

Shannon, so is your main question. The limit is your main question about the limerence and could it actually last this long, or is your main question about should you keep standing for your marriage?

SPEAKER_04 19:00

Should I keep standing?

SPEAKER_07 19:03

So, Meredith, when you're in a coaching session and you have what do you how do you kind of work through this with clients that you're working with?

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah. Shannon, did I hear you correctly that he moved out of the house December a year ago? So he's been out of the house about a year and a half.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Right. And you said that he's he's become cruel and mean. What how often do you communicate with him and what is the nature of that communication?

SPEAKER_04 19:30

Every day. Um every day.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Um well I feel like um what he's doing is um and that he's supposed to be here protecting us and um just to protect us instead of somewhere else and constantly daily telling not maybe not daily, but a lot telling him how sinful it is in that he's not teaching Brooks any integrity or so are is this are typically are these typically phone conversations or face-to-face?

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Um He stops by here when he gets off work every day because our house is right next to the farm where he works. And so he stops by here to see his to see Brooks and then leaves to go to the woman's house.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:45

So I don't really I don't I might not say anything.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Sure. Here here's what I want to um encourage you to do since you do have regular contact with him, and that is positive, right? I sometimes talk to so solo spouses who very rarely have communication with their spouse. So I would I would encourage you to keep in contact where you can. The fact that he's stopping by the house, even if it's to see your son, that's something that you can use to your advantage, right? Assuming there's not any harm being done to you and it's not an abusive situation, I would encourage you to keep standing for the marriage. And the reason that I would, Shannon, is because I've I've worked with so many clients who have gone through a season of standing. Um, very rarely have I seen these situations resolved quickly. It usually is a situation that plays out over the months or even the years, unfortunately. And I always hate to say that, but I also feel like clarity is kindness. And so I want to be very clear that I I've occasionally, I think I've maybe seen two situations since I've been at Marriage Helper where there was kind of an overnight instantaneous change of heart. God can do that. I'm not saying that he can, but what I typically see is someone who starts to Earn more of a positive influence with their spouse over time. And especially because you're saying you're in regular contact with him, I really want you to focus on using those times that you do have with him to not push and to pull. And remember that the ultimate pull is acceptance. So whatever you, and I don't want you to be disingenuous, Shannon. So I don't want you to endorse things that are wrong or encourage him and to do things that you don't want him to keep doing. But I do want you to look for things that you can show acceptance for. So I understand that you're really hurting. I understand that you're torn. I understand you feel like you're in love with this other woman. You know, I understand that you don't see a future here right now. I'm praying that that could change, right? Um, but I hear where you're right now. That's a pull because you're not trying to control him and you're focusing on accepting him right where he's at.

unknown 22:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

Right. That sounded so good.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:01

So it did. It did. She did a great job at that. Meredith's an amazing coach. Uh yes, and you can hear the difference, right? I know that you're that you're hurting, that you're mad. You've gone through a lot of stuff, health stuff, fertility things, and for him to leave and abandon you now is is just more than you feel like you can bear. I don't think it's doing it's I don't think it's having the impact you're wanting it to when you're reminding him what you're doing is a sin. We need you to be here. That's not the pull. That's the push. That's the push that we need, that we need to stop. And just like Meredith so beautifully said, how can you still be, how can you still be genuine to yourself? You're not saying it's okay for you to have this affair, you're not saying anything like that, but instead just changing the way you speak so that you become that pull, that you evoke emotions with him that within him he enjoys feeling instead of evoking emotions within him that he that he doesn't. Listen, Shannon, um, do you want to save your marriage?

SPEAKER_04 24:04

Yes, yes. More more he's he's part of me. I might not be part of him, but that man is part of me, part of my soul, and um it I don't I don't know how to explain the hell that I am actually in right now. I am I'm in the middle of hell on earth. But yes, yes, I want to um save my marriage.

SPEAKER_07 24:32

Shannon, uh, we have this new thing. I was just talking about it. It's called the coaching lab. It's limited to 90 to just 94 people. That's literally all we can take in. That's all our team can capacitate in in how we serve it. But if you're wanting to save your marriage and you will commit to doing the work and joining your small group sessions with your coach for eight weeks, I want to gift that to you.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Oh thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. Yes, yes. I will Shannon 100% do it. Thank you so much.

Pull Not Push In Contact

SPEAKER_07 25:06

Thank you, Shannon. Our team will reach out, okay? We want to help you. Thank you, Shannon. Thank you. Next, we're gonna go to John from Arizona. John, what question do you have today?

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Hi, um, thanks for taking my call and think I was able to get on. Um watching your show for about two months now and perfectly separation with my wife.

SPEAKER_07 25:34

John, move a little bit closer to your microphone. Can you do that?

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Oh, sorry. Yeah, I'm on the head headset.

SPEAKER_07 25:42

Ah, that happens. I totally get it.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Okay, apologies. Um But I guess my question is, um my wife is dead set on the fact that I mean the marriages and cannot be saved. Um that it can be, but um I don't think she's an acceptance phase that she doesn't want to work on. The marriage and now we're just cohabitating um in the same house. Um eight years old. I'm just trying to maintain peace into the household and also focus on me. Um and how I can get better out of taking full accountability of the things that I did allow that right now.

SPEAKER_07 26:42

Which are what are those things, John?

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Um I get anything. Um I'm I'm just working on myself now. I think I'm gonna point acceptance understanding that there's nothing I can possibly color or signature to change your mind is the way that we feel. Um but mostly I just want to keep the peace. Um and be able to have a conversation with her. Have a conversation with her about boundaries and what are the boundaries in the household and uh cohabitate in the same household and being with a thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah, John, you've you've said a couple of times now that you're looking for peace, and and kind of what you're implying there is uh you you won't be able to find the peace until you're you and your wife is separated, I think. Can you can you explain to me what that peace would would look like? What are you looking for there?

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Um well so I guess a couple of times, and maybe this is because I think expressed my mind reading correctly and talked to my earlier about this in the last time that we talked about this conversation about um if you don't need other than my daughter that is not like I'm just being like gonna be her dad anymore. Or I just let her know that I don't know that ever happens, you know, you do what you want to do, but um, my daughter's not gonna call that person dad because that's a person is not her dad.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Sure. Yeah, you've you've already got some anxiety about where you're headed, and and I understand why why why you would. Um John, what I'm hearing is that you are focused on becoming a better version of yourself. You're you're doing therapy work to understand why you've been emotionally disconnected and you're being accountable. You're not denying the fact that you know your wife gave you that feedback and you see you see the legitimacy of that and you want to change. So I actually seeing you do some really solid, what we would call solo spouse work, or you're focused on becoming a better version of yourself, taking accountability for what you can take accountability for, the piece that I'm not seeing is kind of some hope for what could be. And I think when you get in these situations like this, it's just so easy to be discouraged because you're not getting positive feedback from your wife. But I do want to encourage you that if your wife can continues to see the version of who you seem to be right now, and maybe you haven't been that version of yourself for very long, but a person who is is willing to take feedback, who is willing to make changes, willing to be accountable, willing to work on himself, right, willing to lean in and create something new and different, that is what I'm looking for from a solo spouse where we can hopefully with some time, it often takes time and patience, but with some time, we can we can get you to a point where maybe your wife would want to come in and be a part of that work. And maybe she would have a more collaborative attitude with time. So I don't want you to give up too early when when I hear a lot of things that I like and what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Yeah. And and I guess that the one thing that I'm and I'm hearing that because I didn't just listen to a lot of podcasts, which are you know, reading a lot of books and I'm hearing that, you know, whenever this happens, you know, try to work on themselves and go better, but it doesn't go both ways. Um that it's not just call me. Um she's this whole time and basically blame me for everything. Yeah. Um partner at at first, you know, as you can.

Caller John On Cohabiting Separation

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Yeah. And and I hear that. You know, reconciliation absolutely takes the participation of both spouses, right? It's it's collaborative. You both have to be willing to listen and take feedback. And what I think I'm hearing you say is your wife is just so hurt that she's not she's not willing and able to do that right now. But we we see a lot of miracle stories around here. And she hasn't experienced this version of you that she's seeing right now for very long. And I want you to take some some encouragement in that. And hopefully, right now there's just not a lot of hope for your marriage, um, for you, right? And I want to try to instill that in you a little bit, maybe try to lend some of that to you because it's it is it's hard to live in a house that's tense and there's kind of an in-house separation going on and you feel like you're walking around on eggshells. I've been there, it's not fun. I get it. And so what that that just weighs on you and that gets stuck in your limbic system, right? And that's and that's hard. But I don't want you to give up hope too early, right? And and I and I I want to validate some of the things that you're saying. We we you know, if if your wife continues to to blame you and that starts to become a pattern that hasn't changed over some time, then it's then it's a different conversation. But I just don't know if you're there yet.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah, that's definitely helpful and encouraging to hear that. Yeah, because it it does feel like that. Um doesn't see anything on her side that she would have to work on.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Yeah. Yeah. If you're in a position where you could go ahead and invite her to a couples workshop, it often takes a few invitations to get a reluctant spouse to a couples workshop. Um and we have some materials out there about, you know, how to anticipate your spouse's objections and how to answer those objections. But um, you know, there are reasons to come to a workshop, even if you don't think you want to save your marriage. And um, you know, the it might be good to go ahead and start start planting those seeds to see if that might be something that she's interested in as well. I th I think you guys could be good candidates for that.

SPEAKER_07 33:43

Yeah. John, keep keep on keeping on. Don't give up yet. Just yesterday we had um uh someone who was a previous client. He eight, nine years ago, he had been standing for one year for his marriage. And on his one-year anniversary date of standing, he decided, I'm done. I've waited a year, clearly this isn't gonna go anywhere. I'm giving up. I'm gonna file for divorce. But he was, and he was a part of some of the things we were doing at Marriage Helper. And he had another marriage helper friend that he told that to, and his marriage helper friend said, I really don't think you should make any decisions out of your emotional state that you're in right now. Don't make the dis this decision out of anger, fear, anything like that. Just take some time, just process this and and really sit on it for a while before you give up. Two days later, his wife reached out and said she wanted to come to the couple's workshop with him after she'd said no for so long. She said, I think I'm willing to try and see what this could look like. He was about to give up. And his wife ended up turning around, saved their marriage. They've been happily married eight years now since then. And that's the those are the kinds of stories I think of. Is there a time to eventually give up? Probably. But you're not there yet, as Meredith said. So keep holding on. There is always hope. All right, Meredith, uh, I wanted to go back and I wanted to touch on a couple of more things about the difference between coaching and counseling before we go to our next caller. What do you look for in a good coach? What do you look for in a good counselor? Is it the same thing or are you looking for two different things?

Finding The Right Coach Or Counselor

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Well, I think as it as it would be with looking for a new dentist or a new chiropractor or whatever, you're you're looking for um people that seem competent, that seem legitimate, that you've been referred to, right? Who do you trust? Yeah. Right. So, you know, the benefit of working through a program like Marriage Helper is, you know, all of our coaches have been certified by the same people and through the same processes. So we certainly all have our own styles, but we've gone through a similar process and we teach the same material.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

So if you're bought into the Marriage Helper brand, and I hope that you are, you're at least kicking the tires on Marriage Helper if you're here, right? Then by coming into a marriage helper program, um, you will have access to a marriage helper coach. And you can pick your coach, but I I think that all of the coaches are really good. And there's I've referred to other coaches for different reasons because I thought they would be a good match for particular people. So you can't, I don't think you can have a bad coach at Marriage Helper. And I'm not just saying that to win friends. Um That's right. I don't think you can either. So for sure. So sometimes you just end up uh oh, I lost my headpiece. Um sometimes you just end up going with the um person whose schedule best fits yours. Uh so do that if you need to do that. And same thing with finding a counselor, look for referrals. Um, if you go to church, your pastor may have good referrals. He or she may have people that they trust that they've worked with or that they've talked to or that they referred to a lot, um, or just other people that you trust that are wise people. Um, look for them to point you in the right direction. And if you're looking to potentially hire a counselor, you can always do a free consultation, usually for about 15 minutes. Any counselor is going to be willing to give you, give you some of their time to make sure it's the right fit for both of you. So just ask good questions and and um do your research and find people that you trust that can help you find good referrals.

Caller Tyler On Co Parenting Counseling

SPEAKER_07 37:32

Trust is a big thing. And I think that can be difficult for a lot of counselors because most counselors don't have a platform like Marriage Helper has, where you get to hear how we think and how we answer callers, different things like that, before you pay them money, like you can with us. And so that's one of the reasons we do this. We want to kind of showcase how we think, what we do, how we do it. And so for counselors, like Meredith said, being able to have that 15-minute call kind of is able to fill that space of trying to understand is this someone I jive with? Is this someone that maybe the personalities, not that you're looking for someone with a personality match, but is there rapport there? Is there enough that you could trust this person? And so I think that's a great way to look at it. Let's go to Tyler from Washington. Tyler, how can we help you today?

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Hi, ladies. How are you guys today? I've talked, I've talked to you guys a few times. Thank you so much for taking my call.

SPEAKER_07 38:28

Yeah, you haven't talked to Meredith yet, though, have you? I know. Are you ready, Meredith? I'm ready. She's ready. Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Uh, you guys have helped me so much. Long story short, married eight years, together 10 years. Wife is two young kids, five and two. Wife is in a limerence affair with a high school, like a high school flay and they're playing a high school reunion together, and they basically live together now. She spends any waking moment she has when she's not with the kids in her 50-50 custody with him. Uh, she has agreed to do a co-parent style communication kind of therapist counseling. So, my question is like to start pulling the fog apart, breaking the fog, would a coach be better or like a counselor? I don't know. I'm just stuck on this, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Yeah, so she's agreed that she'll collaborate with you on something that has a co-parenting focus, some kind of professional assistance. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

I I have connected us with a counselor who is a relationship, marriage counselor, and she kind of gave a little, oh no, no, no, I don't want to do that. That's trying to save our relationship. And I reiterated with her, it's like, no, no, no. I prefaced it with her when I met with her. It's a co-parent style communication. So I was just curious in your professional opinions, and yeah, you guys are very good professionals. What how would I kind of would I go to more towards uh counseling, more to more to more towards coaching? What what do you think would be the best in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah, that's hard. I would I I guess if I were in your shoes, I'd be looking to compile uh maybe two or three options that that you're interested in that look good to you, maybe invite her to do the same and the two of you could review those together. Um, of course, I would love to see you guys come to a couples workshop. We talk about co-parenting. Nearly everything that we teach at the workshop can actually be applied to raising kids. So would I.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

I would love to I would have to I would have to convince her to come. That's the hard part.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting to me that she wants something with a co-parenting focus, but she hasn't brought an option to the table. So is there a gentle way to challenge her to do that? Hey, can you can you find a you know an organization or um a counselor who would be able to help us with that? Then you can kind of start practicing working together on something, which is probably something you haven't done a lot of lately. And that could be a unifying experience. Um so that would be my thought. And not being familiar with with the the professionals in your area, um, the you know, the two of you could brainstorm together and bring some options together and talk about them. I think that could be good. What do you what do you have on that, Kimberly?

SPEAKER_07 41:07

Well, I mean, one of the the question I I see written up here on the screen from our screener is which would be better to help break the fog of the limerant affair, coaching or counseling? A co-parent communication counseling is not gonna break the fog of the limerant affair. So I think you have to understand or reset the expectation in your own mind of if you're just gonna do something of how can you co-parent better, then that's the that's the result you should expect to get. Um, unless you I mean, I don't even know, Meredith. I'm sitting here thinking, like, would one if you were to be coaching Tyler and his wife and he's like, hey, she's gonna help us with how to co how to communicate better with our co-parenting, like what does that look like from if you if you were to be one of these options, yeah, how would you handle it?

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Yeah. I mean, if if you came to me as a counselor and your goal was we want to be really good co-parents and we want to have a plan for doing that, and you both seem aligned on that, then you know, we're not gonna probably talk a lot about limerants. We're probably not gonna talk a lot about the marriage. We're gonna talk about how to be good co-parents. Right. So, you know, where I'm located in the Nashville area, I know of counselors that specialize in co-parenting issues. Um, so I would say that there are probably those kinds of professionals in your area as well. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't, I don't think it's good or bad in terms of the marriage. I think it's good that you would be collaborating on something. I know that's what you want to do. So that may be if that's what she's willing to do. I always say when I'm working with solo spouses, work with them on what they're willing to do. And if that's what she's willing to do at this point, then then I then I would I would be working to find find a professional that she feels good about. And, you know, you're you're kind of setting the outcome to the marriage on the shelf for a bit, not that it's not important, but for this work, I think your goal would be a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Yeah, I'm I'm playing the long game. I mean, she's l loving her life with her high school claim, but she's still just throwing out breadcrumbs a little bit. So I love your answer. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 43:13

Yeah. Okay, Tyler, one day I want to see you in our workshop. Yeah, that's what I want, Tyler. I want to meet you.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

I'm gonna come walk. I'm gonna come in one day and I'll surprise all of you.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

I the uh the men's solo. There's a men's solo next month, right?

SPEAKER_07 43:28

There is a men's solo next month, Tyler.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_07 43:32

I gotta look that up.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

You've got just enough time to get a plane booked. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

I know, I know. I gotta I start looking now, save some money.

SPEAKER_07 43:40

There you go. There you go. Don't link spirits no longer an option. You gotta pay a bit more.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

I know.

SPEAKER_07 43:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

That's true. Well, thank you, ladies.

SPEAKER_07 43:47

Thank you, Tyler.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Thanks, Tyler.

SPEAKER_07 43:50

Meredith, at the beginning of or right before we started answering callers, we were also talking about this coaching lab. Can you go a little bit more into what someone can explain? Expect from the group coaching sessions that are going to be a part of the coaching lab.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Yeah. It's funny because right before I came here, I was in our building next door talking to Marcos about what it's going to look like. So we're we're kind of in the design stage.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

We are.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

We've got some really good ideas, but we're looking at these coaching labs being up to six people. So most of them are probably going to have about five or six people in them. And what I think you can expect is maybe a bit of a support group atmosphere, but with a qualified coach. So you have somebody who's going to really be serving as a good guide, keeping the group on track, giving you the kind of feedback that you would get from a coach, but you're getting the benefit of talking to people that I'm going to call colleagues, right? Who are in your situation. So one of the things that I hear all the time, absolutely every workshop that I do is clients will say to me, I just felt so isolated in my situation, right? Like I'm the only one I know that's going through a marriage crisis, which actually statistically, you're probably not the only one you know going through a marriage crisis, but you're the only one you know is going through a marriage crisis, right? So people come to these workshops, and because I live here locally, I often work at the in-person workshops and they meet people going through what they're going through who have similar goals, have the same kinds of goals to save their marriage, right? And the community that that comes about from that is really powerful and really healing and really helpful. So you're going to be able to get that. I mean, therapeutically speaking, outcomes are typically better in groups. Um, we can heal faster in groups because we're getting feedback from different kinds of people and we're holding each other accountable in a good sort of way, right? Um, encouraging each other, challenging each other. And that's what these groups are gonna be. You'll you'll meet with the same coach and the same colleagues each week for eight weeks. So I would imagine at the end of those eight weeks, you'll know those people well and you'll be invested in them. There'll be people from all over the world, likely. We have clients all over the place. So it's a really unique um experience to get to know people in a deep sort of way and um help each other grow. So I'm excited.

SPEAKER_07 46:22

I'm excited too. I love that so much. I am just thinking through, I've never done a group therapy type thing where I was a client of a group therapy session, but I've done other types of coaching cohorts where it was group based and just thinking I tend to get so much more out of those than I have with the similar, even if it was a similar um like intention in a one-on-one type setting because I really do learn a lot from others. And other people ask questions that I wouldn't have thought of that way or their experience, mimic something that I've had, I feel less alone. There's a built-in, not just accountability, although there is the accountability, like, oh, I don't want to miss that because I want to show up for them. I wanna, I wanna hear how they're doing. I'm invested in their story as well as my own. But then there's also a greater sense of like camaraderie. You're not alone. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Yeah, absolutely. And these groups will be confidential, by the way. We're gonna ask you to verbally agree to a few things with the first group. And one of them would be, you know, we're gonna hold, we're gonna hold what is said in here close to the vest, right? So that allows trust and intimacy to be built when when you um know that the things that you're saying aren't being shared, right? It's just being kept within the group. So it's probably intimidating to some of you, but I can promise you that if you'll put yourself out there a little bit, I think it's gonna be a really helpful and heal healing experience for a lot of people. And it's gonna mimic a a lot of what is so helpful and healing for people at the workshop. It's just a little less intense, right? Kind of a light version of that.

SPEAKER_07 48:00

I I love that. How does it relate to one-on-one coaching? What's the difference in this group coaching model versus a one-on-one coaching session?

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Yeah. So in one-on-one coaching, um, usually the first question I will ask a client is Are there any developments in your situation since the last time we've met? Is there anything that you've been processing? Is there some way that I need to help you, right? So you get to set the tone. It is your time. It's 50 minutes where you've got my full attention, where the two of us can think about your situation together. So group coaching is going to be a little bit different for obvious reasons. There's going to be five or six people, so no one's going to be able to kind of necessarily set the tone, right? But we do want everyone in the group to be able to share. One of the goals that we have for the group is to find that balance where everyone has a voice, everyone is being heard from, no one is monopolizing, right? And so what we're going to do is we're going to have some kind of structured discussion questions. There's going to be eight unique lessons. You will have gone to the big teaching section before you come to your group, and the group questions will be structured around the group teaching. And we really want to get you to get you to think about how you can apply what you're learning in the teaching and make a commitment. Talking about coaching, coaching is making, you know, short-term commitments, things you can change this week and this month, so that you can set yourself up for success. So you are more likely to make changes if you've made commitments in front of other people. Right? That the very fact that you've verbally stated something you want to commit to doing differently is you're more likely to actually put changes into place.

SPEAKER_07 49:46

That is 100% true. Any of the, like I said, the group coaching things that I've been a part of before, when I've said, by the time we meet again next time, I will have done this, this, and this. It may be midnight the night before, but I am like getting those things done because I could not imagine just the thought of going and saying I didn't do it was not an option.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Yeah, that's kind of lame.

SPEAKER_07 50:08

It's so lame.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Nobody wants to be that person. No one wants to be that person for sure.

Caller Lisa Sees Spouse Softening

SPEAKER_07 50:13

Well, once more, until Friday night, you can join the coaching lab. You can get$300 off as a very entry founding price, if we want to say it that way, using the code ERLYADOPTER. Let's go to another caller, Lisa from Alabama. Lisa, how can we help you today?

SPEAKER_06 50:33

Hi, Dr. Kimberly. Hi, Meredith.

SPEAKER_05 50:35

Hey there.

SPEAKER_06 50:37

Good to hear from you, Lisa. How can we help you today? Um I was wanting to ask a question. My reluctant spouse, I believe, is moving into the valley. Um, he has been reaching out to me more, uh, texting and calling. He initiates it, calling me on the phone. Um, he called me several days in a row. Good at night and this morning, first thing this morning, he called me. What did he say? And w was speaking with me. Just telling me what was going on on his work trip. Nothing, nothing, you know, flagging, just normal stuff that he used to do when we were and just telling me what was going on on his work trip, and a guy walked up that I didn't know, um, and he asked my husband, was he talking to the boss? And he said, No, this is my wife. Guys, he hasn't called me that in a while. I didn't react. I just maintained composure and danced to myself. Yes. Um and I was just wondering it does feel like it could be the valley. Is there anything that I could do to to keep these cold? I don't want to get too excited. Because I talked to Scott today and he said, Don't get too excited. Um don't don't, you know, book a trip. But um right, I want to know overdo it. Is there something I could Right. I won't I wanna focus because Kimberly, I called in it's been a month now, I think, and and talked to you and Dr. Joe and your dad helped me understand that my husband is in grief. Grief. And he is um mad at God. And he was worried. He he I've been trying to figure out how to get him to the spark of life. That's what I was um offering him. And so your dad was real unsure about where we would go with our marriage if he didn't deal with his grief. But he feels like he's coming around. And we are talking about my nephew more. My nephew um anniversary of his death is coming up, it'll be next Monday. And that'll be one year.

SPEAKER_07 53:25

Six years, okay.

SPEAKER_06 53:27

Six years. And I asked him to spend time with me that day, and he agreed.

SPEAKER_07 53:35

That's amazing. Which is big. Lisa, what are the things you have been doing? That was your I mean, that was your first question. What how what do I do? Things that I've been doing are working, what should I do more of? Well, what have you been doing up to this point that's made such a huge difference? It's worked.

SPEAKER_06 53:50

It's worked.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 53:54

I'm I'm trying to maintain smart contacts. I I don't and I know that um I may be being too strict with my smart contact, but I don't reach out first. Okay. You know, like I don't call him or I don't text him or I let him come to me because he is living with his affair partner.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:17

Yes. Yeah. Because he's living with the affair partner. Um so he I try to let him come to me. He did he did come to our house on Sunday and spend time with me Sunday, and he agreed on Sunday um to come back and do my lawn care. So I he seemed excited about it and I told him to please take a moment and think about what I had asked him to do. I said, because if in a day or two you change your mind, I don't want to get my heart broke.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Yeah. How long have you been married? How long have you been married? Thirty three years. Thirty-three years. So you know this man very well. Okay. What I really want you to do is put yourself in his shoes, right? If you were him, you know him as well as anybody, okay? You're the expert on him. If you were him, what would be a push? What would be a pull? Right? Um pushes and pulls can kind of be a way of of just another way of saying treat other people the way you want to be treated, right? Empathy so often looks like being able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. So what I'm gathering, Lisa, is that he's kind of a low-key guy, right? You've probably got some anxious attachment and some anxiety. You can tend to react, right? He's probably pretty avoidant. Yeah. Probably he's got some guilt and some shame going on based on the affair, and that can explain the avoidance. So you're trying to find that balance. And I would just encourage you to ask yourself, bitch, put yourself in his shoes and ask yourself what what what would what would he like and what would he not like? What would evoke positive emotions, what would evoke negative emotions, right? But I think being able to put yourself, you are gonna have to put yourself in his place because I think there's some differences between what you would want and what he would want.

SPEAKER_06 56:15

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

But the fact that he's in the valley now is a, you know, it's it's a positive development. We're seeing him move in the right direction.

SPEAKER_07 56:25

I mean, Lisa, I I understand where where Scott's coming from, and I agree. You don't want to over-emphasize this one win because if tomorrow something were to backtrack, you don't want to give up hope at all. However, I think you should celebrate. I think you need to do something because you've been working on this for a while. I mean, you've been following the principles, you are seeing the change. You need to make sure you honor yourself with that and just say, you know what? Like I have this has been hard. And I have been consistent and I haven't been perfect, but I've been doing this and I'm seeing it. Like, give yourself that positive reinforcement.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

I'm not where I want to be, but I'm not where I was.

SPEAKER_07 57:08

100%. There's progress. There is progress.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Take yourself out for some ice cream.

SPEAKER_07 57:13

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

And and write it down.

SPEAKER_07 57:16

Like write down in a journal or something. Like I will. This is how far I've come. So that the next time things get hard, you can go back and read and remember there has been progress.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

There has been progress. It's easy to lose sight of that.

SPEAKER_07 57:28

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_06 57:30

I have become super, super close with a group of standards that I've met through marriage helpers, and they are my cheerleading crew. And we they are jumping up and down for me.

SPEAKER_07 57:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 57:47

So um I do have such a support. I just I just want to think none of y'all would be here without me. That's very true. Everybody who's marriage helper They only can understand. You only feel normal when you're with your marriage helper family. We don't have to explain ourselves to each other.

unknown 58:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:27

You're not just needed to save your parents.

SPEAKER_00 58:31

Yeah. You're you could be a family.

SPEAKER_05 58:34

They've created a family.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Yeah, you could be an ad for the new coaching lab because you found community and it's been helpful to you. And we are we're not made to do life alone.

SPEAKER_07 58:43

100%.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

You gotta find those safe places to plug in. So I'm so glad you found people that have been able to be a community to you.

SPEAKER_07 58:51

And I will tell my mom and my dad. I will tell them. Will not accept it and say she did nothing.

SPEAKER_00 59:00

She may, she may bake you a loaf of banana bread.

SPEAKER_07 59:03

She may, yes, Lisa. If you and your husband ever get to where you come. She can. She makes great banana breads so good.

SPEAKER_06 59:11

Anybody. If there's anybody that's on the line that's not sure, that doesn't know if nothing else that Mary Shepherds is for us individually. If we save our marriage, that is terrific. But it is for us. And to find a community where you feel normal again and where you feel accepted. And it doesn't matter what religion anybody is. We don't even that doesn't matter. We're family. And these principles make us just better people and make us feel like we can hold our heads back up and walk through life even if it is a long.

SPEAKER_07 59:53

Yeah.

Celebrate Progress And Closing

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Yeah, that's so good, Lisa.

SPEAKER_07 59:56

It's so good, Lisa. I'm so glad you called and we got this amazing update from you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:01

You need to go celebrate. We're celebrating with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

That's right.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:04

I will. That's right. I will. Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. What a great call to end with.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

Yeah. She's so fun. Miss Alice's. That's Miss Alice's legacy.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:18

Her banana bread.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Her marriage. Damning for her not giving up on her marriage.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:24

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

There's a lot of people that have been impacted by that.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:27

So true. Yeah. It's so true. I'm going to go call my mom, y'all. Hey, thank you so much for joining us today. We'll be back next Wednesday. And how amazing was it to be with Meredith?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

She's fantastic. Usually I'm just living a regular person's life at noon on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:43

Hey, you're going to have to join us.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

Now I got called up to the big leagues.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:47

That's right. You've been called up to the big leagues. You're going to be coming back for sure. All right. Love you guys. Take care. Bye.