Family Plot (With Glenn Adreiev)

In this episode, we talk with filmmaker Glenn Andreiev about the 1976 Alfred Hitchcock film Family Plot. We break down the final film of Hitchcock’s by talking about the cast and story. We also talk a great deal about the last decade of Hitchcock’s legendary career. 

Glenn has been a great guest on the show. Be sure and check out his IMBD. 

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0028333/

Thanks for listening! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 2:03

Hello and welcome to Cinemacha with David Heath. And I am your host, David Heath, and this is the podcast where we talk about movies from every era and just about every genre. And sometimes we try to find some hidden gems. Sometimes we'll talk about blockbusters, and we will just kind of go in between sometimes too. And that is kind of where we're at with uh this uh particular film. Uh, we are going to be talking about uh Family Plot, it's uh directed by Alfred Hitchcock, and it also is his final film and from 1976, and uh we'll be getting into uh the plot, the characters, the actors, and talk about Hitchcock, talk about how this uh ended up being his last film, and we'll also talk to Glenn Andreev about it. And uh Glenn, of course, has been on the show uh multiple times. He is a film director, he uh and uh director of Sharp and Sudden, uh Windy Wild Story, and also uh director of a documentary that I, or at least you hear my voice in, uh, called Long Island Joins a Space Race. Also directed two really good documentaries called Lost Eulsion and Found Emulsion, all about lost movies and uh and movies that were once lost that are now found. So uh Glenn Andrev, uh welcome back to Cinema Chat and uh how are you?

SPEAKER_02 3:53

I'm doing I'm pretty good. Um right now I am uh right now I'm uh sort of in the middle of a documentary. It's taking a long time to do, as documentaries do. Uh it's uh called Long Island 70s, and it's all about the music venues, the musicians, the movie-going venues of the 1970s.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

I'll also be talking about the mall, the malls and the shopping and uh these sort of weird crimes on Long Island at the time, including the um that certain house in Amityville.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Um, and then how you know there was a mob pre there was a mob presence, you know, on Long Island. So it's kind of like very much akin to the Roaring Twenties, where you know you had this inventive music, but you also had this sort of crime element that you know made made it like a very uh very unique decade.

SPEAKER_06 4:56

Yeah, the 70s definitely decade. Um what a uh fascinating subject that's going to be. I am uh I I will put a link in the show notes on how people can uh help you uh uh finalize that that project because um you know uh these these things cost money, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Oh yes, they do. And even when you're not spending money, I mean you have to, you know, you have to spend a lot of time on it, you know, time that you would be making money somewhere else.

SPEAKER_06 5:31

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I I uh I I do that w with uh the podcast sometimes. I make a little money off of the podcast, but not nearly as much as I I want to. Um but but it gives me you know it gives me a certain sense of of joy and pleasure and uh and pride to get out there things that uh you know people may not know about. And sometimes I allure people in with the real uh big topics, you know, like today when we talk about family plot. I had an episode on rear window. Uh that's kind of like a a gateway to the podcast. If people see that and then they they click on it, and it was you did get a lot of clicks uh about last year when I did one on rear window. Um, but uh and we did one, you and I did one on North by Northwest uh uh a few years ago. And um and I've got another I've got another Hitchcock one in the in the hopper right now. Uh but I I'm excited to talk about family plot.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Um first of all, I was just very curious, uh, how long, David, have you been uh cinema chat been out there for twenty since May of 2018?

SPEAKER_06 6:49

Um so when this thing actually comes out in people's ears, um it will be basically eight years old. Um uh when once uh uh once it once it once I get this published. Uh yeah, it's an eight-year deal. I've been doing it for a long time. And it is it is uh it is a labor of love, you know. Uh I I I spend uh quite a bit of hours thinking about it, and I think spend quite a bit of hours uh executing, you know, my ideas. But uh, you know, my my son asked me, uh he said, Are you are you ever gonna run out of subjects? And I said, No, because uh in fact, the more I do the the the more subjects I kind of run across. Um, you know, I'm yeah, I may have a director like Hitchcock, where you know I do several of uh several episodes on on, but uh at the same time, I um you know I I uncover things uh and and it may you know maybe an idea that comes out like I mean you as a filmmaker know um uh that sometimes you have an idea, you could have had an idea back in 1998, and and it's just now kind of coming about because of whatever things that were going on or weren't going on that couldn't, you know, couldn't be helped. And now all of a sudden you've got an idea. Oh, hey, here it is. That's how films work. Uh and that's really kind of how how uh I do the podcast too, is I have all these ideas and I write them down, and it's like someday I'll get to them, but I write them down faster than I can execute them. And so I'll never I but I'm not I gotta say never, but but I I'm I'm not gonna run out of ideas anytime soon. My list is a lot longer than it was eight years ago, trust me. Um but uh yeah, yeah, uh we're coming up uh on eight years and five we're we'll be at 500 episodes of probably early 2027. So yeah, yeah. So it'll be a lot. It's a lot of episodes. Um but um yeah, Family Plot uh is is one uh and I don't know if I told you this, Glenn. Um, but when I told you I uh you approached me and said you wanted to do a Hitchcock film, and I have been itching to do an episode on Family Plot, and guess what? I had never actually seen it. I just kind of wanted to cover it. Um and I when I watched it, I literally watched it for the first time this week, and my impression was that it was almost exactly what I thought it was going to be. Not spectacular, but still good. What are your thoughts? Uh uh or what do you do what are you what was the first time you remember seeing Family Plot?

SPEAKER_02 10:00

I saw it when I was um rather young, I think probably in in high school. Um I I think uh not on its first release in 1976, I think just shortly afterwards. Um and I kind of knew, okay, this is you know made by a 77-year-old director. Things are you know, you know, expect things to be kind of slower. Uh and I didn't really like not like it. I mean I liked it, but I was entertained. It was you know, a lot of fun uh all throughout. And I just again I too watched it recently to prepare for uh this uh this podcast and it's you know, he wanted to make a light, enjoyable film. Hitchcock always thought about his audience and thought, okay, you know, these people are gonna be going to the movies and you know, they're going to just have a good time. He doesn't want to put any spectacular set pieces like a you know, like a cropdruster sequence or um you know the uh you know, the incredible editing in the shower sequence in Psycho or anything like that, or some bravado camera move that's impossible. Um there's just very little like cinematic trickery in the film. Right. Um it's very you know, it's very straightforward. Uh it almost feels like a like a TV movie, but it just has that sort of Hitchcock, you know, uh feel to it.

SPEAKER_06 11:46

You know, I I love that you said that because I felt the exact same way when I'm watching it, I'm going, this feels like watching Colombo, you know, a little tiny bit. Where's Peter Falk? Um, you know, I because the sets looked exactly like a 70s TV show, but it had just enough of the kind of oomph in it to make it uh a feature film, which you know for people that are younger today, they didn't they didn't know they they don't they didn't know that there was that big of a difference between a TV movie and a theatrical release because because now they're so blended uh with each other. Um, you know, you see the really the premiere uh actors, you know, were doing stuff for HBO Max and stuff like that. And there's just no line anymore like there was in the 70s. And it was it was a sharp line and definitive in the 70s and 80s. If you were a TV actor, you probably weren't gonna get a lot of movie roles uh for um that that were that were coming out to the theaters. But at the same time, I I did feel Hitchcock in it. I I just feel like uh um no, it's definitely not w w one of his best. Um, but I did I don't I don't think it was bad by any stretch.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Uh oh no, no, like I said, I just recently watched it and um it was I I thought the one thing that was interesting, it starts out we're following uh the characters played by Barbara Harris and Bruce Jern, and it's um the sort of con woman uh Tony Psychic.

SPEAKER_06 13:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Uh and she played that so well too. Her co cohort, a uh out of work actor who was employed as a cab driver. Yeah and he's you know and they're they're talking about this plot where, you know, they you know, if they do everything right, you know, this isn't some little penny ante uh case, they're gonna make you know, in nineteen seventy-six dollars ten thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Which would probably be about seventy or eighty thousand nowadays. Um so you know, it's you know, they're about to embark on a kind of like really uh big project. And they're driving, they're they're driving through this this town, and all of a sudden he slams on the brakes because he almost runs over a pedestrian. Right. And now we're following the pedestrian as she walks to like a police station and she's allowed in, and it turns out you know, she's a kidnapper. And she's completely you know, she's completely worthless. Um she's got blonde long blonde hair, you know, dark glasses. And uh wondering what's going on with her. We know we know she's very dangerous and she means business. And then she's picked up by her cohort played by William Devane, and she's you know, of course she's Karen Black. Uh she takes off the blonde wig and there's that you know, dark hair that Karen Black has. And so, you know, we go we sort of like wander from like one set of characters to another set of characters, and it's almost something that like Tarantino would be doing almost twenty years later.

SPEAKER_06 15:39

Yeah, that's a really good point. It does have a little bit of uh a slower version of pulp pulp fiction.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Um then we find out uh, you know, it's you know, these these people, you know, William Devane and Karen Black, they're kidnappers. And there's nothing really to connect the two, almost that Bruce Dern almost ran her over. Um but they slowly become connected.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

As the film goes on. Um and uh Yeah, and then it has like these really interesting characters that happen. I think um the most interesting supporting character is the uh character of Maloney. The um character of a mechanic gas station guy played by Ed Lawfer.

SPEAKER_06 16:38

Yeah, he's in all he he's in so much in the seventies.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

And you know, he's just this you know, sort of like grease monkey guy, you know, just you know, he just lives yeah, one of those guys that just lives for cars. And uh he's such a good Hitchcock villain. Uh you just you know, you just right away when he just walks on to the scene, you just know there's something rather sinister about him. And then the other thing I was thinking about here's a film made by somebody who started in the silent film era in Europe.

SPEAKER_06 17:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Uh and then, you know, made his reputation in you know, in England, you know, in the 30s, well before World War II. Uh worked all through Hollywood, and here he is relatively excuse me, modern picture. I think it's the only time that so rock music appears in a Hitchcock film.

SPEAKER_06 17:48

Oh, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Um, I I have Bruce Dern visits the tombstone maker.

SPEAKER_06 17:54

Every time I hear uh rock music uh in a movie uh with an old director like that, I always think of things like that. Certainly like, you know, when you see a movie from like 1957 or something, they'll have you know rock and roll in it, and it and it and and and you know that the director wasn't into that music, but it's in there anyway. Um but yeah, that's pretty that's a really good thought. I I hadn't even I I do know what what you're talking about, and I didn't rem I didn't remember. Um but um uh the music overall is done by John Williams, and I I I absolutely I love John Williams score in this. Um you know it it's uh it's less uh it's less uh uh bombastic uh than Raiders of Lost Ark or Star Wars or Jaws. And instead it's got a little bit more of uh uh uh uh more nickels or moracone. You know, it's like uh it's it sounds it sounds more um there's more going on, you know, with than just hey, let's just play in this note kind of thing. And um I I I I love how uh and may maybe even a little Mancini-esque too.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Um it's it's definitely playful at times.

SPEAKER_06 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Um, especially when uh Bruce Stern's doing his uh slew thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Uh basically for people who may never seen family plot, just what triggers the plot is that he um uh Barbara Harris is employed by this wealthy woman to uh find uh this missing heir. They don't have a name, they don't have you know a description. A person is the man out there that they need to find.

SPEAKER_06 20:02

Yeah, you actually have a person being the MacGuffin in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

And it's uh Bruce Stern, you know, has to sort of uh piece things together and there's like some sort of mystifying clues that uh it seems that the person maybe may have died twenty-five years earlier.

SPEAKER_06 20:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Uh when he visits the uh the cemetery, finds a tombstone for this man, you know, somebody who was born in nineteen thirty-three and died in nineteen fifty, uh a seventeen-year-old, and they're buried next to uh their parents, and the parents' tombstone is beginning to decay and you know shows signs of age. Uh the 17-year-old has a relatively new looking stone.

SPEAKER_06 21:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

So that triggers, you know, the you know, that triggers the uh mystery even further. And uh Bruce Dern just does more and more slu you know, sleuthing and uh basically it's it's almost like a film noir or um almost like a thin man type of film. But going back to the music, it's very playful, especially when Bruce Dern is doing his investigating. And when Barbara Harris is doing her phony psychic um routine, uh the music has this like uh female vocal, like this sigh in the background that's actually quite spooky. And um this plays an important part towards the end of the film. And uh yeah, it definitely um falls kind of Week every now and again I just found a scene where Bruce Dern has to rescue Barbara Harris uh in one scene. It's the rescue is just kind of like humdrum.

SPEAKER_06 22:15

Yeah, I'll go with you on that.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah, it's just like it was almost like we need to get this done before lunchtime. Uh that's what it felt like. And uh because there are some like really cool moments in family thought.

SPEAKER_06 22:34

I got in the time.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Uh one of them, I think one of the most the two most celebrated, uh uh is the scene in front of the church where Bruce Baron knows that he can talk to the Monsignor uh who's in the middle of giving mass, that uh he's gonna find out a lot of information.

SPEAKER_06 23:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

But then all of a sudden this uh sort of elderly woman walks across the Monsignor, walks past the Monsignor as he's giving the you know giving mass and she falls and then somebody else comes along, it's William Devane dressed up as a priest, and jabs the uh the priest with a hypodermic.

unknown 23:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

And they usher him out, and what makes it seem kind of unique is that we're in a church, right? And everybody has to be polite.

SPEAKER_04 23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

So everybody's just standing there watching this Monsignor get kidnapped.

SPEAKER_06 23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

And it's like something, you know, Hitchcock would, you know, have you know, have fun with, you know, explore uh religion. I mean, it sort of makes you think about I Confess, where uh the priest played by Montgomery Clift. He's um here's a confession by a guy who says he just murdered somebody in the town, and uh the police think that Montgomery Clift did the killing, and he's you know, taking a vow. He can't reveal what was said in confession.

SPEAKER_06 24:22

Yeah, fantastic film.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

And so uh so it's kind of like the same thing there. And then there's a scene where uh there, you know, um Barbara Harris are to meet Ed Lawter, who's gonna give them some more information in exchange for some money at a uh sort of roadside diner. And Lawter doesn't show up. Bruce Ern and Barbara Harris are waiting inside, but he you know, finally Ed Lauter shows up and it's very apparent he has just cut their brake line.

SPEAKER_06 25:01

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

And okay, this is 1976. Censorship has become more lax, and Greencras probably I'd say it's even uh more lax than it is today. Uh somebody was saying that they were trying to make it realistic, and as Bruce Turner is driving down this like winding mountain path with no control of the car, that Barbara Harris and his passenger would be just vomiting all over the place.

SPEAKER_06 25:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

Um so uh and then of course you think about these sort of similar situations in like a James Bond film where uh there is this great danger and they're all nobody's panicking, everybody's like still calm, you know, even though at any second they can go off a cliff and die. So um uh it's kind of fun that you know Hitchcock has fun with it. He meets it halfway. That Barbara Harris just becomes annoying, and she's like, George, will you please stop? My hamburger's about to come up. And she's like, you know, holding on to him, and he's you know he's trying to drive. And uh it's it's just it's very funny. It's also very dated looking because Hitchcock did it the old-fashioned way. He filmed them in a uh studio with a rear projection in it, you know, in a phony studio car. Um nowadays, you know, you think of French Connection, they would actually go out there with the car.

SPEAKER_06 26:51

Right, yeah. That was a thing in the 70s uh uh to do those real car chase kind of things.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

But this is yeah, even though you can tell that's a weird screen behind Bruce Stern, it's so much fun.

SPEAKER_06 27:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah, and I think that's like the whole spirit of the film. And uh, am I allowed to give away the final shot?

SPEAKER_06 27:14

Um, you know what, yeah, let's just go ahead and say, spoiler alert, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

If you haven't seen it alert, you know, cover your ears.

SPEAKER_06 27:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Uh when Barbara Harris is rescued, and they uh they find out who this person is they're looking for, and they're going to have, you know, they're they're locked up and they're ready to be arrested, and everything's all solved, they're going to get this tremendous reward. Uh Barbara Harris's character is sitting on some steps in this house, and we go to a close-up of her, she looks right at the camera and winks. Breaking the fourth wall, breaking character.

SPEAKER_06 28:02

I I I love that for a final shot in a Hitchcock movie. In Hitchcock's final movie.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

And it's actually, when you think about it, that's the final shot for Hitchcock's whole career.

SPEAKER_06 28:16

Right. Right. Yeah. Do you do you think he he I I I honestly don't know. I I I I don't think there's a lot of interviews with Hitchcock uh available, but most of them tend to be earlier than this movie was made. Um did did he do you think he wanted to continue his his career and make another movie or Yes, in fact he had a uh film in the works. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

And they started working on it. Um when Hitchcock made Family Plot, he had some, you know, health issues. I mean, he's this overweight 77-year-old man. Um you know, he had a pacemaker. So he let the audience you know, he let the casting crew know that he's got this pacemaker. Um he's definitely moving around slower, he's got some arthritis. Uh, but he wants to continue. Uh he um wanted to do like an espionage film called The Short Night. And this looked like it was gonna be a really unique film. It was kind of a combination of North by Northwest and Psycho.

SPEAKER_06 29:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Uh and it was the start with a prison break that was gonna s you know, be done apparently in like one continuous camera shot in the middle of London. And he had it all planned out. It was gonna be done on a studio, not on location. And he he's invited a screenwriter to come in and you know work work on a screenplay with him. And the screenwriter they were interviewing him, and they said and he said there were days he went into Hitchcock's office to talk about the film. And you know, Hitchcock was talking about you know, camera angles and uh character motivation and all these things, just you know, being an incredible detail. And he said, Oh, this is great. This actually actually looks like it might be one of his better films. Um but then comes back the next day and Hitchcock is just very sluggish. He's talking about a bottle of whiskey that he's uh you know, hiding in his filing cabinet. And he's talking about basically nothing to do with the film. And so after a while, um, I think it was Hilton Green, his uh you know, his assistant, uh gave uh this interview, and he says, you know, one day he gets a phone call at Universal, Hilton Green does, and says, You see Mr. Hitchcock in his studio, in his office. So he goes over there and Hitchcock's very pretty much beginning to cry and says, I can't go on. I can't I can't make this movie, I have to retire.

SPEAKER_06 31:31

Yeah, I didn't know the story. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

And uh I believe it was Donald Sutherland was gonna be um they were they were considering Donald Sutherland for the film. I mean, they were really, you know, pretty much the start pre-production. A screenplay is available out there. I think it's in the it's part of a book called The Last Days of Alfred Hitchcock.

SPEAKER_06 31:58

Uh yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

So if anybody you know wants to look that up, you can see what the short night would have been. It's quite an alarming film.

SPEAKER_06 32:10

Interesting. I definitely need to get put that on my list. Uh I didn't know that existed. Um yeah, I know he had another film. Uh I I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it because I'm sure you know about it. Um uh the the film Kaleidoscope that he that was never actually shot. Um what what do you know about that movie?

SPEAKER_02 32:32

That was going to be done, I think, in the mid-60s.

SPEAKER_06 32:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

When you had all these like independent avant-garde, you know, I wouldn't say avant-garde, but sort of like French New Abe-ish type of comments. Um comes to mind is uh John Casavetti's uh Shadows from 59. Uh a lot of hands held 16. Hitcock actually wanted to film it in 16mm. And it's about a um young rapist in Central Park.

SPEAKER_06 33:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

And uh there was going to be a very brutal rape murder in there. I think a lot of this spilled over into his 1972 film, Frenzy.

SPEAKER_06 33:19

Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. Which was his only R-rated film.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Around 1965, uh there's a Warren Beatty film. Film with Warren Beatty called Kaleidoscope.

SPEAKER_06 33:36

Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen that.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

So I'm wondering, it's like, oh, this title's available, Hitchcock's not going to do it.

SPEAKER_06 33:44

Yeah, that's that's uh yeah. The only thing like I just did learned about this film and during research during research uh this week, and I was uh I was floored because I guess I I guess I what I read that it was so disturbing, the whole concept was so disturbing that nobody wanted to cooperate with him to to shoot it, which is just fascinating to me. You know, and and uh yeah, that's pretty interesting that he kind of adopted the idea and and threw it in another film, Frenzy, which was uh his only R-rated film. This movie, Family Pot that we've been talking about, was PG. And um, and I think it it was definitely a PG movie because it was there's uh there was it was it's not uh super intense. Um it's just uh like like we've stated it, it's just kind of a light fun compared to some of his other stuff, you know, from earlier days. And uh but I I'm fascinated. One of the things that you mentioned earlier, the thing that makes me happy about movies like this, and I've mentioned this kind of thing before, but it it's this it's this cross-section of of filmmakers uh that were around uh prior to you know you know my parents being born and uh that are were still making movies, you know, you know, while I was alive. You know, that that uh you know the reason why I had never seen uh Family Plot was because um uh my mom my mom and I were in in lockstep about 80% of the way when it came to uh movies. Uh she she somehow shielded me from a lot of stuff that she wasn't interested in, and I might and my mom, my mom listens to the podcast sometimes, so she probably probably gonna get mad for saying this. But um, but um, you know, yeah, I had to twist her arm to watch the Jaws.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Um, you know, and well that's interesting because I remember early in 1975, um I was beginning to discover the films uh the films of Woody Allen, whenever they played on television.

SPEAKER_06 36:20

Yeah, my mom, my mom doesn't like Woody Allen at all, and and I I never watched any of his movies until I was an adult.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Uh yeah, they they you know, his films are kind of slapsticky like uh sleeper and take the money and run. So when Love and Death is coming out, I'm like, oh dad, I want to see this, and like, all right, well, thank you. And Love and Death has like all those sex jokes. And my mom was very religious. She um the next film was Bananas about the banana, you know, about the banana republics. And towards the end, there's this sort of like Monty Python type of skit, has nothing to do with the film. It's a television commercial for a fictitious uh brand of cigarettes called New Testament.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

And um, you know, it's actually uh the there's a priest uh saying, smoke New Testament. He would like it. Oh and my mom, who is a Catholic, she oh, she blew up. Oh, I can't. I remember the car ride home from bananas.

SPEAKER_06 37:28

Oh, I can only imagine. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Here I am, 14 years old. Glenn, you're never gonna see even a PG-rated movie. You're just gonna see G-rated movies. But but but mom, mom, it's like, what the heck? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember there was that being, and then all of a sudden, back two months later, she's like, Do you want to go see Jaws? And she already saw the movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

I mean, okay, uh, religious cigarette jokes are not okay, but Alec Kittner becoming a blood fountain, that's fine.

SPEAKER_06 38:08

Uh yeah. By the way, uh I I saw Jaws on the big screen uh for the 50th anniversary last summer, and and it was just um it was almost like I hadn't seen it before. You know, I oh yeah, yeah, it's just um and my son, I took him and he comes out and and um I and he said uh I never saw that movie before. And I I I said, wait, I never showed you Jaws, really? And evidently I never showed him Jaws, which I which is odd because I you know I showed my my kids just about every movie that I fell in love with as a kid, they they had to fall in love with as a kid too.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Well, you know, the the Jaws story with uh Family Plot.

SPEAKER_06 38:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Made it well, Jaws was made in 75 uh Family Plot the year afterwards.

SPEAKER_06 39:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Um I'll retell it really quickly. Uh they're on the soundstage for Family Plot, uh, and Bruce Stern, a star, he walks up to Hitchcock and he says, Um, Mr. Hitchcock, you see at the uh at the entrance over there, there's uh this young young man sitting there, standing there. That's Steven Spielberg.

SPEAKER_04 39:30

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

He wants to meet you. Uh and to which Hitchcock just said, Oh, that's the boy who made the fist movie.

SPEAKER_06 39:42

I I heard that story. That's awesome, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

And it's like, and the meeting never happened.

SPEAKER_06 39:48

Oh my gosh. Which is essentially a a Hitchcock movie. He basically made Hitchcock movie. But yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

I mean, yeah, he's he's borrowing from Hitchcock left and right.

SPEAKER_05 39:58

Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

And uh I I don't know whether he was like angry that okay, the torch is being passed.

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Uh um he said some sort of excuse that they, you know, he did the narration for the exhaust ride at Universal.

SPEAKER_06 40:18

Uh-huh. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

And which doesn't make any sense. You know, you know, they paid you to do, you know, to do this. Um but that was like, yeah, that was kind of kind of sad that you know the two of them couldn't have uh chatted together.

SPEAKER_06 40:38

Well, you know, I can tell you another intersecting uh story about Spielberg that you might know, but for listeners that this is fascinating, they there was another story of Billy Wilder and Steven Spielberg uh when uh when Schindler's List was a uh was a project that hadn't been made yet. Um it was an idea out there. Billy Wilder uh wanted desperately to to do that film. And uh and and of course, he's at the time was more than a decade removed from making um anything. Um and uh but he desperately wanted to make it. But uh Steven Spielberg called him and he begged him off the project. He said he said, you know, like hey, um you know, let me let me do let me handle this. And and um and Billy Wilder relented and said, Okay, that's fine. Um, I I you know I think he was heartbroken. But when the project came out, Billy Wilder went to see it and they asked Billy Wilder what what what he thought about it. He said, I would have done it differently, but I can't say I would have done it better. Uh that was clashy, you know, that was very clashy. Yeah. Um but but yeah, I think uh in the case of Hitchcock, um he was still in the game and probably felt like he didn't want out of the game. Uh whereas Billy Wilder, um I don't think Billy Wilder ever really made peace with not making any more films after Buddy Buddy, but I but at the same time, I I think he had enough time to kind of let it sink in. Um that you know there's other people out there that are gonna do better than I am right now, you know. So um you know, having said all that, I wish we had three or four more Billy Wilder films. Um but um one of the other reasons why I want to bring up the subject of family plot was because uh the fact that Hitchcock um you know obviously overlapped the uh period between uh silent films uh to uh the classic uh film era, which whatever you want to call it, the golden age, whatever you want to call it. Um, and and he overlapped into New Hollywood too. Um, and it's something that he and Billy Wilder and John Ford, you know, three of the best directors that ever lived, um, you know, I I could make a case for them being the most important film directors ever, um, and then I can make a case anyway. But uh here you got these guys that just didn't uh they just didn't fit in uh with the new Hollywood concept. And um they they were the guys that uh were edgy, uh or certainly Billy Wilder and and Hitchcock were edgy. Uh but uh you know they they they knew what they were doing and they were at the top of their game at the same time, and and then it kind of wilts a little bit in the and by the time the 70s rolls around. Um What are your thoughts on comparing uh or or On Hitchcock trying to make it uh into I got because I feel like I feel like Hitchcock and Billy Wilder in the 60s and 50s were uh were in this uh big pool and they were the big guys in the pool and they they ran the pool. And then when the 70s rolled around and the the Hays code had been broken and completely obliterated, they were kind of in the ocean with all the other you know creatures of the sea. Do you think that's a good good analogy?

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Well, and going on to another Hitchcock film from his later period, uh Torn Curtain, people you know, a lot of critics say no, this is such an extremely old-fashioned film. It's got need to get you know up with the times. If you ever seen Torn Curtain, it's a very modern film.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

It does these sort of jarring cuts in it. That would almost be like in a film by Jean-Luc Godard, uh, or you know, these like real cool innovative moments in Torn Curtain. Uh it feels like a very modern film.

SPEAKER_06 45:19

There's a lot of great shots in it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

And uh, you know, of course, there's a lot of bravado in for you know and experimenting in frenzy. And like I said, it just he you know, he didn't want to make like the spectacular long tracking shot in Family Plot or um something that's like amazingly edited, like you know, the shower sequence or one of the attack scenes from the birds.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Um, you know, he just was just really just telling a good, fun, frothy story.

SPEAKER_06 45:57

Um it wasn't gonna be possible to top himself.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Right. And he's he's just you know, he's just having fun.

SPEAKER_06 46:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Um and yeah, I see that a a lot. Uh when you talk about you know directors like Ford, you know, who also started in the silent era and worked until about 1966. Um, but you have these directors that you know are flourishing, you know, in in the 70s when you know when they started in the business in the silent era, one is uh William Wyler. I mean, he started as an assistant director, ironically, on the silent Ben Hur. Then he goes to make the you know the big classic Hollywood remake in the late 50s. Uh but he's doing um films with Barbara Streisand at the very end. Yeah, he is. And uh one film that I really liked that says one of his later films was uh The Collector with Terrence Stamp.

SPEAKER_06 47:03

Oh, that's a good movie, yes.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Um Chaplin wanted to do a fantasy in 1971 that would have involved special effects.

SPEAKER_06 47:15

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

And this, you know, I mean, it was uh actually planned out, and we're just wondering what this would have been like.

SPEAKER_06 47:26

Yeah, yeah. I know he had one project in the works that was just laying there. Um yeah, I think I know which one you're talking about. Um Chaplin's another one, uh, you know, just by the time he made his final film, and I just, you know, and then didn't go away. It it was in '67. There's just a little bit of a time gap there, but but but it still holds true. Um, you know, he uh I I I want to like the Countess of Hong Kong, but I uh just I can't. It's there there's a few moments in it that I that I think are fun. Um Sophia Loren is is adorable, but Brando in it, oh well he he's just somebody that just didn't want to be there. Um yeah, he didn't want to be there and he hated Chaplin and all that. Uh but uh I just think it this the the it's so fascinating being able to uh you know wield your way through um you know uh movie history and and realize yeah, some of those directors you yeah, like William Wyler, uh Howard Hawks went along one long time too. Um and uh uh you know, of course, um you have some of the same thing, you know. Some some some of the ones that spilled over uh just didn't quite their films in the 70s and maybe early 80s didn't quite resonate, you know. Like I I was talking uh uh with um uh Joe Joe McBride uh a few years ago. We were talking about Buddy Buddy and and he he knows he he he met Billy Wilder multiple times and and he said you know Buddy Buddy doesn't have one single laugh in it in the whole time. And I was like, Well, I don't know, it has a couple of laughs. What do you I don't know what he said nope, it doesn't have any laughs at all. It's like okay, all right, he says so.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

I think another director that he sort of falls into what we're talking about is um Ikiro Kurosawa.

SPEAKER_06 49:44

Yeah, he kind of fell apart too, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

Not really, because you know, he started during World War II in Japan and uh the films then, you know, in Japan, you know, nothing like Hollywood. He they were very, you know, limited. Um, you know, his first films, uh you know, there's really no real technical finesse in them. Uh it's just when uh you know in the post war period that's when he really flourished with movies like Stray Dog and Roshalon. And then of course there's you know the amazing Seventh Samurai.

SPEAKER_06 50:24

Oh, yeah, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Um he's you know, moving along through the nineteen sixties, uh there's a little bit of a dim out. Uh then he does um films like Kagamusho, which is it's slow going, but it's it's very, very good and just you know breathtaking to look at. And then he does, you know, at seventy-four years of age he does Ron.

SPEAKER_06 51:03

Okay, I need to see that then. I gotta put that on my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

I remember I I I caught it like three times when it came out back in nineteen eighty five.

SPEAKER_06 51:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Um and uh so then, you know, I remember just thinking, okay, is this gonna be you know, he this swan song, he's gonna just uh go out with his ferocious fangs. And somebody said, No, he's planning another movie.

SPEAKER_06 51:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

And they were wondering, oh my god, is this gonna be more spectacular than Ron? Because there's these battle sequences, there's these you know, set pieces of stuff during you know, the samurai era in Japan. Yeah. And then he does a film called Dreams.

SPEAKER_06 51:53

Okay, I think I've seen that one.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

Which is so different than anything he made beforehand. It's his first film that really involves special visual effects. Um and has a cameo of Martin Scorsese as Vincent Van Gogh. Um and uh it's a really beautiful film, really beautifully made. It doesn't feel creepy, and I think like family plot, he says, Well, I'm not gonna try to like top Psycho and the birds, I'm gonna just make a good, enjoyable film. And that's what Dreams is. It's you know, it's visually spectacular. Um and then, you know, his last Turosawa's last two films they're kind of tough to sit through. Yeah, that's that's that's what I was yeah, referring to City in August with uh with Richard Gere. It's the first time he's really working closely with a Hollywood uh-huh star. And uh Mattadale, which I remember I kind of fell asleep during.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

But dreams, you know, for an 80-year-old director. Wow. And 80 years old. Of course, nowadays you have uh Martin Scorsese, you know, still working past eighty.

SPEAKER_06 53:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

And you have Spielberg, who's in his late 70s, he's coming out with uh disclosure day.

SPEAKER_06 53:32

Yeah, Spielberg probably has. Yeah, yeah, I I I haven't seen it. I need to I need to see the trailer yet and see. Um yeah, that's um yeah, I think Spielberg probably has a couple more really good projects left. And and uh Scorse Scorsese probably at least has one really great one left. Um, but uh that's m my thought. Uh did you enjoy Killers of the Flower Moon?

SPEAKER_02 54:00

I haven't seen it yet. I saw pieces of it.

SPEAKER_06 54:02

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, it's a it's um it's a must see. And and I and and what I would suggest, Glenn, is and to anybody who's listening, um, is you know, turn out the lights and and you know, watch the watch the movie uh with the lights off because it will enhance your your your view. Um it really will. Yeah, Killers of Fire Moon, such a really uh it's it it's not an easy watch, but it uh but it it's so good. Um I I'd be before you go, I I wanted to I I thought of the subject of you know directors, and I may do a whole podcast episode sometime, but I uh uh but maybe just a little preview now. I I um I I thought about uh directors who made really in my opinion great films um uh for their final you know final uh projects. And I and I came up with uh umce a time Once Upon a Time in America, uh Sergio Leone, and and I came up with Eyes Wide Shut, Kubrick, which a lot of people would disagree with that. Um but uh and I uh the one that I think is so good that people overlook is Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. Have you seen that one?

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_06 55:32

Yeah, Sadie Lumet is just one of those really unsung directors, uh you know, and and I think that movie is a masterpiece. Um I think that's as Mmung his three or four best. I think it's as Hmong his his two best, right? To be perfectly blunt. Um I I 12 Angry Men and and Before the Devil Knows Your Dead, they're like almost like bookends to me. And and um they're uh and I mean they are almost literally bookends uh as far as big projects. Uh but uh because that was his first big project, and then Before the Devil Knows Your Dead is his last really good. Oh what what do you what what are your thoughts on directors that made really good movies for their final project? Uh uh I think in most cases they don't know it's their final project. Um but but you know because in in the case of Kubrick, I mean, he didn't live even to see the release of Eyes Wide Shut.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

Um and Kubrick was only 70.

SPEAKER_06 56:40

Yeah, he was still a fairly young person, you know, and um I mean uh he um you know images I see him on on the set, I mean uh he seems fine, I mean, even though Tom Cruise later on in the interview said, you know, that's a tired man I'm working with. Yeah, you know, I I even had uh I I I I've I've had I've had people um that that you know I've argued not violently with but but uh but mildly with um on the internet, you know, where uh they were talk they s they have like a Kubrick versus Hitchcock uh discussion. And the thing about Kubrick is that uh most of his movies are pretty close to perfect. Um but uh unlike John Ford and unlike Albert Hitchcock, he did not have this un unlimited amount of time to work on them. And and they, I mean, those guys were churning out films in the in the 40s and 50s and 60s, and and they were turning them out faster. Um even though you don't see on the big screen, uh it doesn't look like it's a ro the rush projects, but you know, but they they they look fantastic, you know, and and uh Kubrick had all kinds of time. And I I've thought about this like a million times, and I've meant I've mentioned it on the podcast. You know, uh you've got actors like Daniel Day-Lewis, who clearly is like one of the best actors that ever lived, uh, but he spends years, you know, honing the character and understanding uh what to do uh with what uh how he's going to portray this character. Whereas there's another guy, you know, there's there's not another guy, there's literally hundreds of character actors that could show up on a set on Tuesday and be one guy and then show up on another set on Thursday and be another guy. And they don't they don't need the the the whole uh uh method acting thing, and and they they just do what they do, and uh, and it's just like the Lawrence Olivier. I don't know if you know about the Lawrence Olivier thing with Dustin Hoffman. Have you ever tried just what I understand?

SPEAKER_02 59:25

It seems like um Olivier and Hoffman like um forged a uh a very strong friendship on the set of that film on Marathon Band.

SPEAKER_06 59:37

I I can imagine that.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

I can imagine So, you know, when he says, My boy, why don't you just try to act it?

SPEAKER_06 59:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

I'm staying awake for four days straight.

SPEAKER_05 59:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Um, you know, it sounds it sounds like you know, friends busting on one another. Yeah. Uh because I understand that uh Hoffman had a apartment in New York and Olivier would come over you know, with you know, some expensive wine and he's um uh basically uh doing uh Rits from Shakespeare for Dustin Hoffman and they're just hanging out with friends. Um yeah, in the case of uh you know, going back to Stanley Kubrick, uh you figure he might have been a little bit tired, but he seemed to be in rather good health.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

Um and you know, he was just wondering, did he have like another film that he wanted to make? And whatever the heart attack was, uh uh you know, he might have you know, he might have seen one more Kubrick film out of him.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:52

Yeah, it it is interesting. I I didn't hear I never heard that comment from Tom Cruise about that's a tired man, uh, you know, uh and one can imagine, you know, because he he definitely uh I don't think there's any question he ate slame, ate slept and drank his his projects, you know, and because they were all perfect, you know, uh it's it's uh except maybe the first couple, um, but when he had five dollars to spend. But uh yeah, I mean it's just uh fascinating to to to think about. And uh and in the case of Kubrick, uh he had the he he had the the he didn't come in the same time as these other guys were talking about. He came in uh when Hollywood was uh in drenched in the in the Hayes Code and and uh um I didn't he he played a small part in in destroying it too, but um, but I I think uh Hitchcock and Billy Wilder, you can credit them with quite a bit of that too. Um but uh yeah, I I but I uh going back to Family Plot, I I really find it to be uh a fun movie. I think I have almost the exact same opinion that you have. I think it's fun, uh it's not great great. Um, you know, you're you're not you're not locked in thinking, oh, this is gonna be fantastic. Um, but uh it it it it is exactly what I thought it was going to be. And I I had never um uh again I I had never seen that movie uh until this week. And uh I usually watch movies twice to prepare uh for uh the podcast. And and in this case, uh I had these are the only two times I watched it. And um and I just love I I I I'm I I love the theme of it. I like the fact that the McGuffin is a person, and I just think that's so fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

Um, you know, well the one thing uh one sort of lecture that I do, they do these film history lectures, uh I'm doing one that uh I I've done several times already here on Long Island, Theodore Roosevelt on Film.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:19

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

Uh which is basically showing how Theodore Roosevelt, you know, our 26th president, uh was the first president to really realize how to use motion pictures to uh sort of advance, you know, his persona just to get himself out there.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:39

He definitely had a persona.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

He's definitely very animated. Um there is film footage of Willie McKinley, and Willie McKinley's kind of stiff.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:49

Yeah, yeah. No, it's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

And uh, but you know, Roosevelt, I mean, he's just out there with his arms flaring and uh just getting shot and continuing to talk anyway.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:03

The guy got shot well during a speech and continued to talk.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

I I talk about that. Uh and uh then you know he finished the speech and then said, Oh, let's get you to the ambulance. Uh no, I have to go across town and do another speech.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:21

I'm not done.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

I'm not done yet. And uh I'm talking about people that you know work themselves. Uh he dies at 60.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:33

Yeah, and in yeah yeah, people died a little earlier then, but but that was that's notable. And I I think that guy really did wear himself out.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

Um he also had like the most incredibly insane diet. He had six hard-boiled eggs for breakfast, plus a bison steak, another steak for dinner, drank the equivalent of about a gallon of coffee a day.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:01

I didn't know this about him, but I definitely believe it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

And uh but and the Hitchcock is you know not too far behind. I mean, he enjoyed his steaks, his brandy, and his cigars.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

He indulged I'm sure his cardiologist at the time of Haley Plot's like saying, You just stop.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:21

You know.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:23

That's what every cardiologist says. I don't know. I don't know of any cardiologist. I don't know of any cardiologist that says, you're doing great. Keep going.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:39

And uh just you know, uh the one thing I wanted, you know, I send you to these film history talks, and one that I do, I call it Hitchcock Hidden Zens.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:49

Uh huh. And there are some of those.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

And I start with family plot. Normally when I do a I talk about uh of actors or Person's career, uh, like I did Elvis Presley, I'll tell, you know, um, you know, I start with his first film, Love Be Tender, and I go all the way up to uh um films like Sorrow, I mean, I go in chronological order. Um but it's got hidden gems. I start with Family Plot, and the whole idea is is that if you took away, let's say his ten most famous, most notable films, like the you know, Psycho, North by Northwest, Verigo, Your Window, Strangers on a Changer simply did not exist.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

He would still be considered a great director.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:43

Absolutely. That that's an awesome that's an awesome thought.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:47

You're absolutely it's like, you know, family plot has so much going for it, you know, with you know, making fun of the you know, realistic car chase. Um and then I go on to like how the film as a whole may not work, but there's individual scenes in there that are just brilliant, like uh Topaz. Um the whole opening with Roscoe Lee Brown. Oh, sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:31

I haven't seen that one. That's on my list, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

And it's there's these jump cuts in there. Again, like I mentioned, French New Wave. I mean, it feels like a French New Wave film.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:43

Uh these jump cuts and these um little like risque blue jokes that are in there.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:50

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:51

Uh it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

Uh then of course you have like his um, you know, some of his hidden gems from his British period, uh uh Young and Innocent.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:04

Good one.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:06

Which is like Family Plot, is not there's nothing like real, you know, except for that big cracking shot at the end. There's it's just a fun film. Um and here's another thing to think about as far as Family Plot is concerned, uh the casting.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:24

Yeah, you know what? I I I I didn't want to brush over that like we did earlier, and I and I realize we haven't talked too much about the the people in it. Um, you know, uh what what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

Well, originally um you know, Hitchcock still still had to listen to the studios, even though you know he's like you know, the head band. Um they were all considering for the Bruce Stern part Al Pacino.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:56

Ooh, I gotta think about that one for a second. Uh wrap my head around it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

I was thinking about it when I was watching uh Kennedy Thought again, it's like Pacino doing this. It could it it could work, it would have been a different flavor, but you know, uh Um, you know, I can you know say he's kind of like this gruff uh kind of this gruff character that uh sort of contrasts with uh the suave gentleman played by William Devane.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:25

Yeah, who was great, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

But the problem was that Al Pacino, and he's coming off of Godfather Part 2, Dolday Afternoon, Surpico, and he wants a million dollars.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:42

That's a bit much.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

And Hitchcock said, uh, I'm not going to give a million dollars to Al Pacanow.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:57

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

And so they had to go through okay, if he knows, who else? And that 15th on the list is Bruce Stern.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

Now Hitchcock worked with Bruce Stern earlier in uh Marnie.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:16

Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:18

And they really liked working with each other, they actually pretty much formed a friendship. And then um you know, uh Bruce Dern did some of the Alfred Hitchcock presents and you know right after Marnie.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:35

So, you know, Hitchcock was making sure that Bruce Dern was getting work.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:40

Yeah, but by the way, I gotta tell you something. Uh that that's another reason why my mom wouldn't probably would not have let me watch this, because she absolutely has this huge disdain for Bruce Stern, and I think you know why. Um you know, which is Bruce Dern has stated that a lot of people can't stand him just because of one movie role. Yeah, I'm you can guess, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:09

Oh, he actually had me stunned.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:11

Uh uh well he killed John Wayne.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:14

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:18

Yeah, uh you know, uh that and my my mom uh my mom is one of thousands. Bruce Dern said in an interview that he said, well, I uh he says uh I I I think he talked about it on Gilbert Gottfried's podcast a while back. Uh he said something like, Yeah, there's so many people that can't stand me uh because I killed John Wayne. But yeah, but I think he was fantastic in this movie. Uh and I I I'm trying to think of Al Pacino how he would have done.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

Yeah, I think he Pacino could have done well, but again, yeah, we're talking about method actors, so which Hitcock really did not like working with.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:08

Uh I can see why that would be the case, uh, because of um the whole, hey, I'm the movie genius here, not you, pal. And I I have a feeling that that's what that would have been.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

It's also it's kind of hard to juggle when you're trying to make a film.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:28

Like I I had this on some of my films where you had uh the male leads a method actor. So you have to cater to his method actor needs.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:40

Uh the female lead, uh she can just turn it on and off.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:48

You know, and uh you know, she could be joking about an episode of Friends that you saw, you know, in between takes, and then we're like, okay, we're ready to shoot, and then boom.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:59

Yeah, they're there. Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:00

They're there. And you know, the method actor has to walk around the block four times. Yeah. So that that can get a little bit on the batting side.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:12

Yeah, no, I can see where that and that's where we mentioned Chaplin and Brando together. I think that's what the dynamic was there. You know, I I think you had um somebody that just thought, I I know what I know what I'm doing here. And and uh um, and then you had the filmmaker who was more of a perfectionist than just about anybody uh in film history, probably, uh, and said, No, no, we're gonna do it my way. And you know, Brando said he was an idiot, you know, and like, um, not really.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:50

But well, um one of the talks that I give is on James Dean. So just as his career is just you know sparking delight, he dies in a car accident. And I like to ask my audience, he's like, where do you what sort of films would James Dean have done? I mean, would there have been these films that they would have invented for him?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:22

Yeah. I think he would have gone 15 more years.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:25

Oh, yeah, he probably would have gone into like the nineties easily.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:29

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He yeah, I I I think he's the kind of guy that would have, you know, just slowly, you know, eased into other types of roles, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:43

And like they're talking about, you know, unfortunately this week we lost Robert Duval in 95. That would have been James Dean's age.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:53

Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

I mean, the one thing I'm, you know, going way off of family plot here, but there's a sort of scene where uh uh James Dean, Natalie Wood, and uh Salamino are joking around in this deserted mansion, if you remember the scene.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:15

Uh-huh, I do.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:16

And they're pretending to be this like young honeymoon couple. And I'm wondering if the studio put that scene in there because they want to try James Dean out on romantic comedies.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:29

Good point. I never thought of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:31

Let's put in a little romantic comedy in here.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:35

And see how he does. And, you know, he did quite well. But one thing, you know, we talked about what roles would he have gotten. What famous roles uh you know, famous performances would have been his. And somebody said, What if he was alive and he got the part of Norman Bates? And I was like thinking, Okay, a method actor like me and Alfred Hitchcock. It could have gone either very good or very bad.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:12

Um and another thing is I was reading somewhere that Hitchcock didn't want family plot to be known that it's taking place in Northern California. Uh, you know, normally which is very interesting with Hitchcock films is you know, the location for the character on itself, like previously London in Frenzy, or um uh yeah, or again, Northern California and the birds, or um all the different locations in North by Northwest. But yeah, this he wanted Family Clot to be like any time uh you know, any town USA.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:00

Yeah, and it felt that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:03

And uh so I remember there was like a famous there was like a a key location where they give it like uh 107th Street and dates. And you see the street sign and you're just wondering, is that like a made-up street sign? Is that like a little like wink wink towards Psycho?

SPEAKER_06 1:17:30

I I didn't see that. Uh that's fascinating though. Um I had to be, it had to be. It really had to be a wink, yeah, it had to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:41

So yeah, it's like I said, it's really been interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:45

And I know as a um they actually started filming uh with um an actor, Roy Tinnis, uh for the William Devane part.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:58

And originally Hitchcock wanted William Devane.

unknown 1:18:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:03

William Devane was not available, but then there was some sort of shift or something, a cancellation, and all of a sudden William Devane's available, so he sort of kicked out Roy Tinnis, who was apparently doing okay in the role, and they reshot a couple of the scenes with William Devane.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:21

Yeah, I just I think he is so great in this role. Um, I think his eyes are so perfect. He's got big eyes, which I never really thought about before, but he's got very big eyes, and and uh you you can just tell that you know that there's evil lurking inside that man in in this movie, and and I I think it's I think it's a really fantastic uh choice, and I think it worked really well.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:56

Uh, you know, and there's a scene with William Devane and Ed Lausser that is just so bizarre.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:05

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:08

When Devane's at his jewelry store and Ed Water stops by. Did you notice something there?

SPEAKER_06 1:19:19

No, I I'm not I'm not sure I did.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:21

Uh what what uh it's not halfway through the film. Yeah. It's just before, you know, he gets the idea, okay, cut their brake line and kill Bruce Stern. Try to kill Bruce Stern. Um is standing in the middle of the jewelry store looking at William Devane, and he's clearly superimposed in.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:44

Okay, I'm gonna have to re-look at that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:48

And just I'm wondering is like, okay, they had this location to work with, and uh yeah, why can't they just bring oh and then Ed Water's in there in the in the jewelry store? But somehow they have to like put him in there. And I'm just wondering if this was a conscious effort by Hitchcock touched by Hitchcock that um William Devane's supposed to be alarmed to see Ed Water there standing at the door. And just Hitchcock r always loved playing around with the point of view shot.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:30

Yes, he did.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:31

So it's probably something to like you know, make uh make it more jarring that he took what should have been like a standard to stand there and we'll film you, turn it into a special effect, and turn it into something memorable.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:47

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:49

Look at the shot again.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:51

I'm definitely going to.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:54

It's really UV. And I was watching it again actually this morning.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:58

I was like, no, this isn't a goof up or an accident. This is on purpose.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:05

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna uh re-examine that. I I I I definitely didn't didn't notice. Um uh the one thing I I that is pretty obvious is that these two these two guys they play villains in the movie, uh, but uh William Devane often plays charming people in his charming in this for part of it, uh, but he but he's uh he usually he he usually plays a guy that's uh kind of a good guy, uh whereas uh Ed Lauder always plays uh this you know uh second level nasty guy, you know. Um and I I think of him in a movie he made the same year, uh one of my favorite movies ever, uh Silver Streak.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:56

Uh he's in that movie playing a similar character, you know, at that second-level villain, you know, uh just not as important as the Well going back to William Devane, it's um uh just the way you know Hitchcock really wanted to get out of his villains, that they're very ordinary people, they're very charming.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:21

Um there's the famous story when uh Joseph Cotton was offered the role of Uncle Charlie in Shadow of a Doubt. He's saying, Why are you having me play such a despicable character? Yeah, I'm kind of like a right actor. And to which Hitchcock caught Joseph Cotton out to a park, and they're sitting at a park bench, and he says, What's all the people walking around? Now tell me which one's the killer. Which one's the killer?

SPEAKER_06 1:22:50

I love it, love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:52

And he's like, it could be anybody. He says, That's exactly my point. Um, I think you see this early on in um a sort of lesser-known Hitchcock film, which I think is quite good, is uh Secret Agent.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:07

Oh, okay, yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:09

Where the villain is Robert Young.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:13

Very charming Robert Young.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:15

Mm-hmm. Very charming, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:17

And you know, this goes on all throughout. I mean, Robert Walker and Strangers on a train, you know, it's always like the boy next door.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:26

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:27

Now he's like the total psycho next door. And for that psycho, Anthony Perkins, who's like the boy next door.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:34

Yeah. It's boy, that's a very good point uh brought up by you, and certainly uh excellent job by Hitchcock to recognize those things. That not everybody has to be like the fire-breathing villain, you know, to be a bad guy. You know, you just um you know, you you can spew out charm. Um and William Devane doesn't, it isn't like he he spends the whole film saying really terrible things. He only does it, you know, a couple of times. And then there's times where where uh Karen Black's character is actually uh who's not a good person, but she is appalled by his behavior uh in a couple times in the movie. Uh and um, you know, like this isn't what I signed up for exactly, kind of thing. Um, and um I think the I think the thing that uh that does make this work, I I I I think the the characters are well constructed, and and I I enjoy the fact that um you're not exactly sure who to root for for quite a while in this movie. Um they all all four of them have really really horrible traits, shall we say? Um, you know, but um you know, but it then it becomes clear who the who the good guys are. It's just that um, you know, they're ordinary people, they're just a little um quirky. Uh, you know, talk about Bruce Stern and Barbara Harris. Uh who I I uh I I think uh if if you ask me a question, you know, like who who was the M VP of this movie, I think it's Barbara Harris. Uh I because I uh I I think she's the the glue uh of of this um what what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:32

I really think so also. You know, she's uh you know, Bruce Darren's kind of like he's doing a lot of the work, but he's sort of tagging along. She's sort of in charge of operations.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:46

Yeah, and and I and I I think Karen Black on the other side thinks that she's kind of in charge, but later on realizes, oh uh, there's more going on than I had thought and wanted uh to be in this mess. But uh yeah, I I love Barbara Harris in this movie, and um you could tell very early on. I I think my favorite scene is when she's having a conversation in the kitchen uh with Bruce Stern and also uh pretending to be uh you know doing her uh her little act of the uh of being a medium. Um it it was sort of I I don't think it uh once again we're talking about winking. Um I don't think it was a nod to um Wizard of Oz, but it reminded me of that a little tiny bit. You know, you know, I like I'm not I'm I don't really know what I'm doing. I'm not really a medium. I'm just here to take people's, you know, nickel, you know. And and uh I I think that's very much what what uh I that reminded me of. And I thought it was I thought it was adorable that every once in a while she threw out a oh oh oh while she's talking to Bruce Stern in the kitchen in the other room and just think that was fascinating and fun. But I love the characters in this, and uh I I really do. And I I think overall, you know, uh yeah, this doesn't crack your Hitchcock top 10. Um I can't imagine it cracking anybody's Hitchcock top 10, maybe even top 20. But you're absolutely on the money when you said you can take away you know his 10 best movies, um, and you still got you know an incredible director. Um, and that is absolutely not not in question. It's just it's so uh we're we're talking about somebody that was just so so so good at what he was doing and and had vision uh had a vision probably every time he got on a set um and realizing. you know, what do you wanted to accomplish and and um you know uh of course you directed a Hitchcockian type movie uh Sharp and Sudden. And oh yeah yeah that's uh very uh that's very much uh which uh by the way have you found a home for your for your collection of of movies that you've directed yet or I because I know you were Oh yeah there's a um uh company in New Jersey called Wild Eye Releasing and they have the films they're putting them all out I guess this year they'll be on Blu-ray and they'll have uh directors commentaries uh and then little like uh I guess making of um it was kind of funny because they they got uh one film every movie make which has the cameo by uh somebody who's doing it the Bernard Getz.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:56

Mm-hmm So I had to go out and screw like this documentary about Getz. And uh you know we basically didn't have that much money to deal with. I mean I was getting somebody to work with. But I didn't have the money to get the rights to sell like a uh a headline you know a real life let's cover the New York Post. So I had to do I had to be like really like super creative. And doing this like guest documentary that lasts about maybe seven, eight minutes. And I had fun doing that. It was like okay, yeah, it's you know here's a rat. Big Thanksgiving dinner.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:43

That was a that that was w one of the two or three most fascinating stories of the 80s the Bernard Goethe story. I remember uh it was for a while it was wall-to-wall coverage of it uh on the news and the news the news was so different back then you know it it it you it it was so different uh well it's kinda it almost like played like a Hitchcock film because yeah you know you hear about this man who shot these buggers and everybody's looking for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:15

They have this description of them um and everybody's like wondering okay who's this Subway vigilante and you know who's this like sort of like real life Charles Bronson? And just like out of a hitchbox film like Rear Window where you know we're we get an image of the villain and then it's just like very soft spoken guy. Yeah right just like how Raymond Burr at the end of Rear Window and what is it you want from me? And you know Bernard Getz almost has like the same type of voice. Yeah I I didn't know like living I didn't know this button in Hitchcock film.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:01

Yeah I I didn't know this but I just looked I just looked him up.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:04

I just I didn't realize he he was still alive uh Bernard Getz oh Getz oh yeah yeah yeah he's pretty much um retired you know from whatever job he had um and he really didn't want to do anything as far as like the spotlight I contacted him a few years ago. Uh yeah and then just like how Hitchcock villains would have like some strange sort of quirky habit or pastime. Um Bernard Guest like to um uh what is it take care of the squirrels in uh the nearby park in New York City. I've heard that yeah that's weird yeah and I went to see him once and we go over to the park and he's teaching me how to hand feed squirrels. Fascinating and yeah again this is like something you know like a like a movie villain would do like they they would have that sort of habit like oh it's I'm plotting you know all these like deaths and everything but yeah I like to keep little squirrels.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:17

Isn't that crazy? I yeah that's fascinating met him and talked to him that's and and and that's absolutely fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:25

Uh it's and uh another villain you know very good and soft spoken and uh very charming is James Mason in North by Northwest.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:39

Oh absolutely yeah yeah yeah we we we had a long talk about that one a few years ago yeah yeah that's uh that that there's some people that would say that was Hitchcock's best movie. I yeah I think I think if you asked ten people uh you know that are film fans uh you know that are true film fans ask them what's your favorite Hitchcock movie you'd probably have seven or eight different answers um I I think there's some people people I guess you have your rear window you have vertigo you have psycho which are anybody's masterpiece you know no matter who made them that's that's that's my masterpiece but he made like five more that were you know you can make that that are that are just as good or if not better um you know there's some people that say rope was his best that's the other thing with um uh I guess Hitchcock is is especially that uh the lesser known films they they might be reviewed as such like okay this is not quite psycho this is not quite North by Northwest and it doesn't reach that level so people think automatically okay this is like a mediocre film and uh I remember when they had the five Hitchcock films that were taken out of circulation in the late sixties and there's like I'm trying to to learn all these Hitchcock films and one of them was Rope and all the Hitchcock film books that oh it was a commercial failure and um the experiment didn't work and blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:23

I enjoyed Rope immensely.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:25

Rope is Rope is a fantastic movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:28

And uh so it's like I wonder like what are they talking about? And if you think about everybody talks about the best you know the ten best what about the the lowest of the Hitchcock films?

SPEAKER_06 1:34:40

Yeah it's it it there's not very many lowest comes to mind um I I honestly to me I I probably um I don't have any that I don't enjoy at least to a small extent um I'm probably going to say I'm not the biggest Marnie fan um but I still think it's a good movie. Oh I think it's a really good movie the other one is uh Topaz which is mediocre but like I said this the scenes with Roscoe Lee Brown in the beginning I mean just really percolates as you know just you know great suspense Yeah I I saw Topaz uh for the first time not too long ago as well and uh those are those were two holes that I had to fill and and um you know Topaz is in a lot of ways more interesting than this than Family Plot but um but I chose Family Plot because it was his last movie and I I felt like uh I also feel like that the the the people in it are are worth talking about and and I just was fascinated by the the whole concept of this being his final film.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:05

And uh like even like some of his like lesser real lesserdone films like um Under Capricorn which has some you know it's kind of tedious but it has some really good stuff in it. And Jamaica Inn, which uh you know his last film in England really uh you know really crackles with some really quirky characters and uh some great you know suspense moments in there. No agreed it's kind of odd that it's a hitch top period piece.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:39

I think I saw that on TCM um I may be wrong but I know I've seen it.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:47

They recently restored it and it's um it's a beautiful looking film. Yeah oh I agree yeah um and like I said it's um I have the Blu-ray of um a family plot it's in part of a TikTok box set and it's uh like I said yeah there's no like real spectacular shot in there there's no uh vertigo shot in there or north by northwest shot it's just um you know it's well photographed but it's just a very fun film.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:30

Yeah yeah no I agree I agree um yeah I was actually just looking at at the Hitchcock list and it's like ridiculous. I I you know we haven't even mentioned Rebecca I guess that's you know dial in for murder is the notorious it's it's to catch a thief. His list is absolutely ridiculous. I like The Man Who Knew Too Much is a movie that um that in my opinion the the um Stuart version um is is just good it's it's not great I think it's good um but I still love it you know and and and you know that I think that's one of his lesser movies and I still love it. So I just think I think that's just um you know I I recently saw four foreign correspondents uh blackmail is one I recently saw and I I recently recorded an episode on um the Lodger um because I I I had another guest on that um what he really wanted to talk about was the Lodger. And I'm like well I already scraded a Hitchcock episode with Glenn but I I'm like okay we'll do it. And so the Lodger uh the Lodger episode uh will be out right before this one I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:53

But um but yeah another thing that's kind of funny about um Hitchcock um I guess he really I mean his previous film was uh frenzy and he um before that with Popaz um Hitchcock rarely had bad language in his film.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:19

Yeah in in the 70s he finally kind of introduced that yeah and in Family Plot there's I guess there's very little in there except uh where uh Bruce Dern's constantly saying oh for Christ's sake yeah um for Christ's sakes and uh I think there's even a joke about it that uh you know they have to go looking for a man and he says oh for Christ's sakes no we don't have to look for Christ you know he he says a joke like that and I saw family plot on like network TV it was the second time I saw it and I noticed that they relooped Bruce Bern to say oh for rice cakes Lance for rice cakes and then um I finally got to see uh the Trouble with Harry where Edmund Green thinks that he's he shot this guy and he says oh for rice cakes I've done it that's in the 50s so I was just wondering was that like a little you know hint at what you know from trouble with Harry I don't think I'd do anything for rice cakes because I don't I don't really care for them but you know it's just I mean you um you know how the 80s how it's they're just looping a scene out. Yeah I I know uh I a while back my uh my sister and I uh um you know like 40 years ago in the 80s well we we we we watched a movie on uh regular TV and and and they said stuff you at least ten times yeah stuff you like oh this doesn't work um um and yeah that's I just wonder how like things like the Goodfellas or uh yeah I've seen good fellows on radio TV on network TV I've seen it on uh on on like uh I think it was AMC back in the day and I only watched it just for fascination purposes only to see you know how just how terrible the cut would be and it was absolutely awful um you know the it they didn't they didn't dub any words but they you know you know kind of bleeped everything out and and it just sounded ridiculous and uh you know it just sounded just so so terrible uh but um uh but uh yeah I I'm looking at this Hitchcock list though and I'm like I just I I just can't believe that this man produced so many really uh great treasures and uh you know it's just and so by the time like we've mentioned a couple times already by the time he made Family Plot um he he he wasn't gonna outdo himself there was no way he was gonna outdo himself uh so um you know it just you know here's uh clearly it wasn't intended to be a swan song but but it turned out to be kind of a a nice little final film and who knows how bad the the the next one would have been if he would have completed it uh under the conditions the health conditions that he was uh afflicted with at the at the time you know because he could have gone on even though he said I gotta what if he did try to go on um I sometimes and I and and forgive me if anybody for saying this but I I um Clint Eastwood's last movie I I kind of wonder how much he directed how much was he was he was he just sitting there when the camera guy was really directing it or was he really directing it by by that point? I don't know. But I don't know if we're gonna get another one from him. I um I don't know I just saw what he looked like on the set and I just doesn't doesn't look like somebody that's gonna make any more movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:46

Well there's talks about Mel Brooks doing a sequel to uh Spaceballs.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:51

Yeah Mel Brooks is is is is upright a little bit more and and still has some spryness in him and and um you know I mean he you know my honest opinion Mel Brooks might live another 15 years he might well there's another director who um whose final film um sort of got a bum rap uh that he you know his final film as a director is uh Dracula Dead and Loving It. Yeah you and I have talked about this before uh and there was somebody else that mentioned it too and I was one of the ones that gave him a uh gave it a bad rap and when I re-watched it I thought you know what this is a pretty good movie I don't I don't know why I wanted to trash it because I I I think people were expecting Blazing Saddles uh or young Frankenstein and they got something different and and uh and uh and I think that that caused people to have um a lesser opinion of it um than maybe you know I I I I think uh much like Hitchcock or Billy Wilder or or John Ford you know his name the director the you know that made it into the 70s um the it's well like you can be a victim of your own success and you know you end up making really great movies and then um you may you know I mean there's there's some people that would hang their hats on making that movie on Dead and loving it you know I'm talking about you know there's there's some movies out there that are just you know good movies or decent movies that people could just say hey hey I made that movie you know I like I I one one of one of my uh uh uh friends uh um uh from the movie Sixteen Candles uh she was in the movie sixteen candles she came on uh the show and and uh uh she um she uh she made a living out of being you know like the best friend and and for about 10 years and um and then um and then she got a chance to you know star in her own movie and it was like you know really low budget nothing like the other movies that she was in but she at least had her name on the movie poster and and so for some people that's that's the like the highlight um yeah but tell me what you're gonna tell me about Dead and Loving It because I I I I recently revisited it and I did give it a bad rap and you're not the you're not the only person that brought that up that brought that's brought that up I'm I'm trying to remember who was the other person that brought it up. What what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:43

Well I I heard it had like a bad reputation. Yeah I was going to do a talk I did a talk on Mel Brooks and uh he uh and I never seen Dracula didn't loving it so I said oh I've got to watch it for the talk and uh I just wound up really liking it and I said okay this does not have the signature moments of like a young Frankenstein but it's good it's a lot of fun um he's playing around with um with the the whole vampire genre something fierce and I mean he's going to town on the if you've uh you know ever seen the movie where they have to uh stake uh the character of Lucy in the casket if you did I don't know if you know ever seen that sequence. Yeah oh yeah yeah it it's like something straight out of Monty Python.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:47

Yeah it is it is it's it's good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:51

Uh and uh you know just the whole film just you know Leslie Nielsen's just terrific in it um and it's a it's a good film like I said it's not you know the problem is if you're going to compare it to young Frankenstein you're gonna be in trouble.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:11

Yeah and that's exactly that's exactly what my thought is and I and I um yeah and I uh I remember watching space balls in the theater uh and as a teenager uh I uh it came out in 88 I think uh uh if I'm not mistaken and I remember really liking it a lot um I thought it was hilarious in moments there's moments of real true genius in that movie uh but again if if you compare it to Wigg Frankenstein uh yeah that's that's not a comparison that's fair you know and then Mel Brooks again you know just a victim of his own success you know made those two movies that were just so fabulous um and not to mention the producers and um you know I you know I mean it's Silent Movie is a really good movie but nobody gives it credit because of the previous ones um so yeah I uh High Anxiety is a fun movie too uh a nod to Hitchcock you know so did you know the the Hitchcock story behind um I've heard it but I don't it's it you can tell it again because I can't remember what he said about it or what he what was going on with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:34

Well he was invited to a preview screening Hitchcock was invited to a preview screening of the film. Uh-huh so Hitchcock comes in with like a little bit of an entourage they sit and watch the film in complete silence all the gags uh huh you know the you know sort of the goof on the uh uh the psycho shower scene yeah uh the sort of goof on The birds, you know, those all those crazy gags that are make high anxiety, just a lot of fun. And then uh Mel Brooks watches this, you know, Hitchcock entourage just like walk away at the end of the film.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:15

And he's like, uh oh. Oh my God. He doesn't like it. Um I guess people know where this story's going. Uh Mel Brooks is in his office and uh he gets a delivery of this big box and it's from Hitchcock. And Hitchcock found out that um Mel Brooks is a wine connoisseur. Oh. So it was all these expensive wines, and it's like, you know, thank you for your wonderful movie. And um you know, they they were like having dinner together, um you know, Hitchcock and and Mel Brooks afterwards they actually became good friends.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:02

That's nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:05

And uh, you know, Hitchcock just you know, he had to have that fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:12

Um he also did that once around the time of family plot, it might have been or I think it was a little bit earlier because you know he's not quite you know, the other person wasn't quite a director at the time. Uh Peter Bogdanovich.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:26

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:28

And they're walking from this one room in a hotel down the elevator, Hitchcock and Bogdanovich, and they're talking film in the elevator. And then when the elevator door opens and there's people waiting to go into the elevator, Hitchcock pretends he's in the middle of like a really grotesque story. And, you know, his hand was chopped off. So all these people are wondering what was the what was the lead up of the stor story? You know, Hitchcock just loved his his little pranks.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:16

That that's uh that's funny, and and he obviously did it with uh a straight face. Oh well Glenn, this has been great. Um uh anything else you want to add uh about Family Plot that we we missed?

SPEAKER_02 1:52:35

You know, like I said, don't expect the big fireworks of um North by Northwest or Psycho or Wear Window. But it's just a fun film. Um when uh one one sort of place where I get in trouble with is the films of Humphrey Bogart.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:02

And I sort of wedged Casablanca maybe like fifth or sixth down.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:07

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:08

Uh I don't think like seventh or eighth.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:11

I'm not spectacularly wild about Casablanca, but I think it's a really well-made film. Uh it's it's it's very good. I could watch it anytime. But you know, Bogart, I think, did you know, did better films. Yeah, the um and when people say, How could you not like uh Casablanca? I said, Well, name me your favorite Italian food. And they might say, Oh, lasagna. Okay, so let's see, does that mean you dislike spaghetti? Which because that might be your fourth favorite or an e vodka?

SPEAKER_06 1:53:51

Very good, very good. I get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:55

You know, your favorite.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:00

Uh what is your favorite Bogart, just out of curiosity?

SPEAKER_02 1:54:03

I would say Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:05

Okay. Oh, yeah, we did an episode on that. We did an episode on that. That's right. We did that. Um, and yeah, I mean, you you know, you got that and the Maltese Falcon and King Mutiny, it's changed so much. It's uh uh I need to do an episode on the King Mutiny at some point. Uh when and we did we did one on Mutiny on the Bounty too, which is very similar, but not this not the exact same. Um but uh um but uh I I I want to do an episode on the King Mutiny at some point, but uh but I'm it's on my list of things to do. But um well, all right, Glenn, I know you gotta go. Uh so um hey, I I want to say thank you for another you know fantastic conversation. We veered off track, much like uh Bruce Dern's car a couple times, but but that's okay. But that's okay. We had a fun we had a fun time.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:02

I mean, that's what you know that's definitely what happens, you know, with you know talking about film.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:09

No, and somehow here we're talking about you know the final films of Alfred Hitchcock, and somehow the seven samurai winds up in there.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:19

Yeah, we we had Kubrick in there, and uh uh we talked uh we even talked about 16 candles for a second. Um I don't know about you, but I think of Hitchcock, I think it's 16 candles.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:33

Um that you and I talked about not too long ago, and uh it's from the same studio, Universal.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:43

Um what if they gave, what if Universal gave um Hitchcock to direct roller coaster?

SPEAKER_06 1:55:50

Oh, yeah, we talked about that one too. Uh that seems a lot like a Hitchcock movie. Yeah, it really does. Yeah. I think we might have met talked about that during the podcast episode too. Yeah, the charming villain. Yeah, yep, yep, yep. Um good call. Good call. Um, yeah, we um yeah, so for people who haven't haven't listened to our roller coaster conversation, uh, go back and listen to that. And you can go back and listen to the Treasure of the Sierra Madre conversation or the North by Northwest conversation. Every conversation with Glenn is a good conversation because the same thing, David. You you know everything. Except I did stump you uh with uh why did uh why do people not not like Bruce Stern? Um and I think because yeah, you you you're a man, and I think women women are the people he was referring to that don't like him uh because they because they killed John Wayne and and men could deal with it, but the women couldn't. And um it's gonna get me in trouble there, uh what I just said, but that's but it's true. Um well it's been nice talking with you, and I always think