To Live and Die In LA

In this episode, we talk about the 1985 William Friedkin neo-noir film, To Live and Die In LA. This was a comeback of sorts for Friedkin. We talk about the cast, themes, and that awesome car chase.  Click to listen! 🎥🎥🎥🎥

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Oh, and welcome to Cinema Chat with David Heath. And I am your host, David Heath. And this is a podcast where we talk about movies from every era and just about every genre. And I'm excited to come at you with another episode of Cinema Chat. And now, if you haven't been able to decipher yet, I know there's show notes, so we can probably read them, right? At least read the title of the show, this episode. But we are going to talk about the 1985 film To Live and Die in LA. The film is uh directed by uh William Friedkin, and it stars uh William L. Peterson and Willem Defoe, as well as several other character actors that we'll get into in a few minutes. But uh it's a Neo Noir with pretty dark themes. It involves uh Secret Service uh agents who dealing with the underworld of counterfeiting, and the the story isn't so much about counterfeiting as much as it's a character study uh of William L. Smith's uh uh William L. uh. Peterson's uh character. Uh but uh he plays the agent uh uh that uh is chasing after Willem Defoe. Of course, he doesn't know who he's really actually chasing after, uh, but uh he is best known for uh being in over 380 episodes of CSI. That's a lot of episodes. Uh Will and Dafoe gets his first big role here as the artist that is capable of counterfeiting $20 bills and making them look really great. Uh as a matter of fact, there's a very elaborate scene uh where we uh establish how uh he makes the the $20 bills. It's it's kind of amazing. And you know what's uh kind of funny in them in the movie is he's printing money, and there's a scene in the film where he's actually negotiating with somebody, doesn't want to give him uh as much money as the guy was asking for, and he said, and the guy's like, well, why let me ask you something why do you care? You're printing this money. Why do you care how much you're giving me? Good point, right? Um, but um uh Defoe's character uh uh drives a hot car and he he plays the the villain perfectly. Uh he is uh willing to go to great lengths to protect his operation. Uh so great that at the beginning of the film he uh commits murder against one of the Secret Service agents, which is why William L. Peterson is so hot on the trail because he wants to get the guy that killed his partner. Uh the Secret Service g uh, on the other hand, goes to great lengths to destroy the operation. Uh and uh again, I'm I'm not sure that William L. Peterson's character is nearly as worried about the the dollar bills as he was as he was the uh um getting the getting the guy, uh getting the villain, uh dwelling defoe. Uh but early in the film, uh uh of course he his his friend his friend and and and uh is murdered and and then the movie r revolves around uh finding him. Um now we're not gonna talk about spoilers until the end, um, but I I will say toward the end uh uh we are going to spoil this movie. Uh so uh to live and die in LA is not probably uh the most prolific picture uh of the 80s, but um it's been seen by a lot of people, and it has been 41 years, but nonetheless, um, you know, you can listen for the next few minutes, but I will tell you when that we're going to spoil it at the end, uh, because I think the end is worth talking about. Uh, but uh notable scenes in this movie. Uh again, we don't want to spoil it, but but we do want to tell you the scenes to look for. Uh the airport scene uh where you see John Tutoro. Uh, and and boy, he's absolutely fabulous in the short screen time he has here. Um, and uh he pops up in the film about a third of the way in, and he gets arrested. There's uh good conversation uh between Tutoro and and and uh uh Defoe though, while he's uh while Tutoro's in prison. Um, you know, he's like uh it takes a lot of balls for you to show up here. You know, the guy is a counterfeiter and he shows up in the prison and they even talk on the phone, which is something I just I find just absolutely insane. He's talking on the phone about committing crimes, uh, you know, in the prison, you know, the prison phones where I'm you one would assume that there's somebody listening in monitoring the conversation, but uh they talk about that. That's uh I don't know if that's a flaw in the movie or not, or if the guy's just ballsy. I I I'm not really sure. Um, and maybe he's just ballsy and gets away with it. I I'm I'm not sure. Uh uh there's several intense uh scenes in this movie though, with uh there's it it's quite quite a bit of violence, and uh a lot of people might say gratuitous violence, but it it really isn't. Uh the movie is is it's supposed to depict uh the dark side of Los Angeles. Um and we'll talk about uh a little bit more of the of the uh setting uh yeah in a few minutes, but uh there's also a chase scene in this movie. Uh in you know, of course, if you know William Friedkin, you know he directed uh the French Connection, which contained what is uh largely considered one of the you know two or three or four or five best car chase scenes in any film. Yeah, a lot of a lot of uh film film uh a lot of film freaks will tell you the that the French Connection had the best. You know, it was this the best uh of of the car chases. Well, William Friedkin didn't want to put a car chase in the movie because he did have the French Connection, and he thought that was the ultimate car chase scene, and he ultimately was talked into doing one, but he said if he's gonna do one, he's gotta outdo the French Connection, and he pretty well does here. Uh, there's a moment where they're driving in a trap. William L. Peterson's character is driving the car uh on the wrong side of of the the interstate, and he there's cars coming. Uh, this is a uh a scene that is mostly authentic, uh from what I've heard. I I how if that's really true, I'm I'm not sure. I'm not there's a lot of people that can verify it right now. Um most of the people in this production are still are still alive. Um, but uh the um the um the the the car is going the wrong way on the highway, and it's just it's outrageous. And of course we see the the famous uh uh you know Los Angeles uh uh river basin, uh, you know, like you see in the movie Greece and and I I don't know about a dozen other movies. And uh, you know, we the 70s really uh there were a lot of movies in from the 70s and early 80s that were filmed at that river basin. And when you see it, you know it. If you've never been in Los Angeles, you still know you still know that you've seen it because you've seen Greece. Uh but uh they uh evidently they only had one chance to uh film the scene, and and uh it's it's it's just uh an awesome thing to see. Uh the music uh which of course you heard a lot of the music uh during the uh trailer that I played at the beginning uh of the show. The music is uh notable because it's uh the rock band Wang Chung, who uh of course had the famous song Everybody Wang Chung Tonight, uh, which I think a lot of people really liked in 1987, but not so much now. Um, you know, I think it I think it did number one. Uh I I I didn't fact check that before I started recording, but I think it hit number one. Of course, that was uh not from the soundtrack. Um Wing Chung had they did a lot of music that uh was instrumental and it just it really kind of fit the film well. It's an 80s film, uh, and uh it was 80s music. It is it is it it does sound dated. And and I've said before, it's it's odd, but I think it's true, that 80s movies are more dated than say, like a 40s movie. I just think it's funny how that works, but uh the 80s music just absolutely gives it away. Uh but um in any case, uh uh it's an interesting thing to have a rock band do the uh do the uh complete score uh of a film. Uh of course Queen did it for Flash Gordon, uh, which is also a notable one, but that just doesn't happen very often. Uh occasionally uh rock artists are you know handle it uh on their own, but uh you don't see rock bands do it too often. Uh I don't know of more than two cases where it happened. I'm sure I'm sure it's happened more than that, but uh but anyway, let's talk about uh the cast of this movie. Uh William L. Peterson uh plays the uh Secret Service agent, uh determined to get the counterfeit counterfeiter that murdered his partner, and he pretty much stops at nothing in his attempt to catch him. Uh he really is kind of cold-blooded. He's not really a hero. He's more of an anti-hero. Uh, but uh the William L. Peterson, of course, as I said, he was in uh over 380 episodes of CSI. Uh he is retired now and is uh 73. Um and uh of course Willem Dafoe plays the villain. Uh he had uh lots of important roles of that people know about Willem Dafoe. Uh he has 163 credits. Uh sometimes plays the the lead, sometimes plays the villain, sometimes plays supporting roles. Uh just uh an awesome actor. He's almost a generational talent. Uh he's can do everything uh that a director would want. Uh, of course, a lot of people know, a lot of younger people know him from the Spider-Man movies. Uh he's in three of those. Uh then they of course he more recently was in the lighthouse, and I I think that might have been his best performance. Um I I don't know. What do you think? Um but in this movie, To Live and Die in LA, he plays a cold villain uh that is very calculating. Uh he doesn't go over the top in the role at all. You know, the there's this uh a famous meme or gif of uh Willem Nafoe, uh, you know, that you know, looking, you know, cheesy and over the top, um, but uh which he's capable of doing. Um but in this uh movie he duh he he's nuanced, even though he's cold-blooded, and there's no no doubt about it that he'll do anything to protect his his his his uh status and his freedom and his operation. He'll do anything. Uh he'll throw anybody under the bus, he'll kill anybody, obviously. Uh and you know, but he uh, you know, he's still nuanced where he he's not evil to be evil, you know, he just does things to protect himself. Um John Deuturo, another one of our great character actors, uh 124 credits. Uh not in a lot of this movie, but where he is, he it's it's very uh that's very good. Uh, of course, a lot of people know him from Old Brother War Thou, um uh Barton Fink, the Big Lebowski. Uh he was in three Adam Sandler movies, uh Do the Right Thing, 1980, uh, what is it, '89. Uh, and the Quiz Show. We did a podcast episode uh on Quiz Show where he was uh uh played the an important role in that. Um he is 69 years old. And one movie that doesn't really get very much attention uh from Tutoro is uh a movie that he made uh where he portrayed Howard Cosell. Um and uh it came out. Um I I didn't write it in my notes, but it came out around 1999, 2000, 2001, something like that. Uh but uh it was a made-for-cable movie, and I I thought he was so good as Howard Cosell. Uh but uh Gary Cole was also in this movie in his first feature film. Uh Gary Cole now has 209 credits. Uh and of course, uh, if you don't know who Gary Cole is, he's one of those that guys, you know, where you look at the screen and say, oh, that guy. Yeah. Uh, you know, most people would know him from playing Lumberg from Office Space. That really is probably his most famous role. And we see a lot of memes with him on it too, uh, don't we? Uh, but uh he uh just another great character actor. Um, and uh he'll be 70 in September of 2026. Um, and then we've got yet another great character actor, Dean Stockwell, uh, who had had a couple memorable scenes in the film. Uh yet uh you know, another one of those great actors that can do anything, do the lead. He can play a villain, he can play, you know, a supporting role, he can do anything that that the director would want. Uh his career uh spanned over seven years and included 205 credits. Uh he uh unfortunately died in 2021 and he was 85. Just a master class of of character actors. Uh we also have uh uh someone that's lesser known, uh Darlene Ann Flugel uh plays the role of the sort of girlfriend of William L. Peterson. Uh really he's basically just using her for information uh and for sex. Um but I don't think he really cares for her. You know, you can see the look in his face. He's nonchalant about it. Um and uh just not another not a he's not really a good guy. Um he's not really a good guy. Um this isn't uh uh John Wayne that we're looking at. Um this uh might have been Darlene uh flug or Darlene uh flugel's uh biggest role though. Uh she uh stated once um that she did want to play bimbos. And when you see her filmography, you realize she she really didn't didn't do that. She was true to herself. Uh but uh but she was also uh a model and a trained actor. Uh so she herself was a really good actor too. Unfortunately, she uh died young of of Alzheimer's in 2017. She was only 64. Uh that's really tough. Alzheimer's at that age. Um the the real star of this movie though uh might be uh oh oh I wanted to also mention Robert Downey Sr. is in this movie, uh, which uh he also uh died in 2021. Uh and uh but he's in a few scenes uh as as well. Uh but uh the uh what I was gonna say was the real star of this movie though was the camera. Uh you know, Robbie Mueller uh was the cinematographer here, and and he had uh 79 credits, including uh another 80s gym, uh Paris, Texas. If you haven't seen that, you know, put that near the top of your list because Paris Texas is an excellent movie, and we'll probably do a podcast on that at some point. And probably do an episode on on Paris, Texas. Just really, really fantastic 80s movie. Uh but this movie to Delivid Die has so many good shots, um, but that's not glamorous. We we we don't go down the Hollywood streets and we don't go through Beverly Hills, um, and instead we see uh dark and grim streets. And uh a lot of this is shot during the day, so you know it's not you know like a night, you know, like a pure devoir or even um you know, but it but it uh but at the same time uh it's still a dark film uh with dark themes, and it it explores uh the uh a CD underbelly of the CD underbelly of Los Angeles in 1985. It's time it's kind of a time capsule. Um I have to say something that I really like about Live and Die in LA. There's a lot of things I like about this movie. Um but one of the things I like about it and appreciate about it is it doesn't involve drug deals or drug use or uh doesn't involve gangs or anything like that. It's it's About a counterfeiter, and it makes it pure and simple. This guy counterfeits, you know, money, and that's what it's about. Because the like the drug dealer thing and all that, that's so stereotypical, especially in the 80s. I know. And uh we see a lot of that in 80s movies, and you look back and oh wow, didn't know didn't really start about many movies about drug dealers in the 80s. But there were a lot of movies like that, and uh or about gangs, and um it's it's it's uh I don't want to say the word refreshing, but it's just something that's uh kind of uh different um to see a criminal um that you know that's not sniffing cocaine and stuff like that. I I I I like that about this movie, you know, there's a dark qual darkness quality to it, but but it doesn't involve drugs, and that's pretty I think that's pretty cool. Um, but some people might not care, but I I I noticed that. Uh that it's one of those movies that actually does doesn't involve drugs and it, but it still involves you know, seedy and shady dealings uh, you know, uh with criminals that really shouldn't be out in the in the in the in the open field. Uh but the uh the film is shot so well, and we and we gotta give credit uh to uh uh to Robbie Mueller uh for just putting on a masterclass of cinematography. Clearly, uh a lot of that had to do with the way Freakin uh wanted it shot, but it's you know it's a it's just an excellent delivery. And and uh Freakin, of course, died in 2023. Um he was 87. Um and he uh directed a movie that we talked about on the podcast episode podcast episode with Mike White uh last year. Uh we talked about the night uh they raided Minsky's. Um and that is uh a movie that is nothing like this. Uh but uh course he directed The Fringe Connection and The Exorcist. Uh but after that, Freaken went on a real uh he went into a real slump uh as far as uh movie direction and uh his movie right before this was Deal of the Century. Um if you haven't seen Deal of the Centry, it it is one of the most meaningless uh plotless movies. I it has a plot, but it's it's extremely flimsy, and and Deal of the Century really is one of the most disappointing movies I've ever seen. Uh this uh and it had uh uh Chevy Chase and Gregory Hines, and I uh I remember, you know, this is coming off of seeing uh we saw uh Chevy Chase and uh vacation and uh you know thinking, wow, this is gonna oh another good Chevy Chase movie. Oh no, it was really bad. It's really, really bad. And it was so poorly written. Um, it looked like they the actress didn't want to be there, and it was just an awful, awful movie. And and Freakin was was really on a losing streak. When he made To Live and Die in LA, he was not given a whole lot of money. Um uh it was a six million dollar budget, which you know was a lot more money back then, but it was still very modest for as far as a big production. It just was they just weren't gonna give a lot of money. Um, but it turned to a really good profit, making 17 million, which again doesn't sound like a ton of money, but you know, it's almost three times the amount. And they didn't market it, so that six million dollar figure is about what it cost, you know, because a lot of times movies, you know, producers will they'll spend uh you know $100 million on a movie and then they'll spend $25 million marketing it. You know, well, this movie didn't have really a marketing budget. I think they just threw it out there and um and freaking you know scored with it. Uh and uh it's I don't even know if it's arguable that it's his uh best work from you know uh that wasn't attached to the 70s. Um but uh the I don't think it's arguable. I but freaking was uh just an absolutely fantastic uh uh director, though he understood the what it took to get a good shot. Um and um and I think it's some probably fair to say that certain you know people when they make movies, I mean it happened to Spielberg, it it happened at Scorsese. Uh people you know get in slumps, and sometimes, you know, maybe uh maybe you read the reviews uh and and the reviews are great, and then you think you can wing it or something. I I'm not sure what happens there. Um, but uh it's occasionally directors run into slumps, and and this was a major slump for for Friedkin, but he pulled out of it with a really fantastic uh movie um in here in 1985 to live and die in LA. Um, now um for everybody that hasn't seen the movie, this is where you uh get off. It was really nice talking with you. Uh, you can pause it, um, but we're gonna talk about a spoiler, and it's very important if you haven't seen this movie, don't listen to this next couple minutes. Um, just uh hey, we'll see you next week. I really appreciate you listening. Okay, so three seconds here. Okay, so everybody that has seen the movie, um, I I don't like to I don't spoil movies too often on this on this podcast, but uh but this is one that I just think is uh it's it's it would be indefensible for me not to talk about uh the ending. Of course, we really kind of just determine that the main character isn't William L. Peterson's character because he gets shot down and and just you know uh it's it's absolutely insane what happens to his character. Uh you you think there's a little bit of r redemption coming that maybe uh they're going to um he's he's going to locate uh the you know the bad guy Will Nefoe and and you know and he's gonna go go home bloodied and beaten, but at least he got the bad guy. Well, he gets killed, you know, uh when and it's just absolutely killed. And and uh and it's not just one of those things where he got to say goodbye to anybody. Uh it's just bam, bam, bam, he's gone. And um we say goodbye to his character w without having any notice, any kind of uh warning. Uh there's nothing that's gonna tip you off that this guy's going to get killed. And it's not at the end. It's it's near the end, but it's not at the end. You know, of course we see uh his partner, you know, that he really didn't care for that much, and his partner was about to turn on him. Um, you know, uh uh at least he, you know, he didn't he would have turned on him, but he didn't want he didn't want his partner, he didn't want the guy to get killed. So he was very careful about it, but uh he got killed anyway. Talking about William Peterson. Um, but his partner, of course, um you know, at the end of the movie says says to Darlene and Flugel, uh, you know, I'm your new boss. And I'm like, what in the heck happened there? Wow, what an ending. Um, that's an awesome ending. Uh it's an awesome ending to really uh I think what is an awesome movie. I mean it came out in 85 and and uh I was 14 and I was not terribly interested in in seeing it didn't appeal to me um at the time. Um and I saw it so late, you know, that I I I watched it on Turner Classic Movies uh and uh Ben Mankowitz introduced the film and and um I was boy I didn't know what I was missing. I'm glad that I watched it. Um and then uh a few years later I watched it again, and and uh now this is my third watch uh of To Live and Die in LA. And uh it's quickly become uh high up there in in the 80s movies that I think are great. Uh so when I was a teenager, there were a lot of 80s movies that I thought were great, but uh they've lost a little bit of the luster uh since then. But uh not all not all of them, but some of them. Uh but to live in dial a way up there. Um fantastic movie um that is dated because of the music a little bit, um, but it really feels kind of more like a 70s movie than it does an 80s movie, if that makes any sense at all. I guess if you've seen it, you know what I mean. Um, but if if you are if you have seen this movie and you're listening to my voice, go watch it again. Uh it's so fun and uh fun uh in in kind of a uh a dark way, I guess. But that that car chase scene, it's just fantastic, and that's worth watching again just to see that. And um, you know, but in any case, I want to thank everybody for listening to this episode of Cinema Chat, and I'm so glad to be able to uh come at you every week with a different subject, and it's it's really a pleasure and a joy of mine, and I love talking to everyone, and uh I I I wish I'd get people talking back more to me. Sometimes I get some uh texts and uh and emails and private messages uh about certain episodes and uh sometime might open up and have like a mailbag uh show or something. I I don't know. Um, but uh it's a lot of fun. But hey, uh if you haven't subscribed to the podcast on the platform you listen to, what are you waiting for? Please do it because it really helps helps me, it helps the show, and um it definitely is an encouragement to you know keep pressing on, which I'm gonna do anyway, but um, but I definitely would like the encouragement to press on. Um but anyway, thanks for listening.