Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead

In this episode, we talk about Sidney Lumet’s final film, Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead. The film stars Philip Seymour Hoffman, Ethan Hawke, Marisa Tomei, and Albert Finney. 

We talk about the stellar cast, the complexity of the plot, and how Sidney Lumet wanted this to be viewed as a melodrama. We talk about Lumet’s glorious career and discuss other directors with good swan songs. Click and listen! 🎥🎥🎬🎬

Thanks for listening! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

I hope you're checking your messages because we have a real mess here. Oh you, I owe you. And I am your host, David Heath, and I am excited to record another episode and talk to you kind folks that uh are willing to listen. Uh this is a podcast where we talk about movies from every era and just about every genre. We try to cover, you know, the blockbusters, the big movies, the great movies, the classics. Uh we also try to uncover hidden gems. And this uh 2007 uh film is definitely a gem. Uh how hidden it is, I'm not sure how you much you'd want to describe it as hidden so much. Because it happens uh to as my voice is coming to you right now, or as I'm recording, I should say. Uh it seems to be on almost every app imaginable, even free on YouTube. Uh and I when I looked a couple months ago, it was on any apps, and now it's everywhere on all the apps. Not not all of them, but a bunch of them. Uh, but it's called Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. Uh, this is an episode that I have had in my head for quite a while. Uh, I had a couple of ideas for some um guest hosts uh to talk about it. Uh and uh normally I'll I'll give you a little inside baseball here. Normally, when I pick a guest, um in in yeah, I usually give them uh uh several choices to talk about, you know, it's certain movies, and and so it quite often uh the majority of the time, and maybe even the vast majority of the time, my guests uh pick the movie out of a grouping that I select myself, uh meaning the ones that I feel like I I want to record one on or feel comfortable recording one on or whatever. But uh everybody kept missing this one, and no nobody chose it. So I said to myself, uh, and I the hey, um I'm going to record it by myself. It'll be a solo one. Um, but I really wanted to redo this movie before before the devil knows you're dead. Um, it's it's from 2007, and uh the thing is is that there are a lot of compelling things about this movie. First of all, uh it's uh riveting, uh it's it's got action, it's got high-level drama, and uh it's it's got some suspense uh in uh some really good thrilling scenes, and it's shot so well. But we'll talk about uh the uh the movie, the the plot, the the cast. Uh we're going to talk about we're gonna talk about the uh the way the story was designed and talk about, of course, uh the great Sydney Lumet who who directed the film. Now, we are not going to get into spoilers uh until the end. I'll let you know when that's coming. If you haven't seen this movie, it's okay to keep listening because I'm not going to get give away any spoilers. Um, however, at the end, I I will give out a spoiler. Uh I I I typically don't like talk about endings of movies, um, but there are certain ones that uh almost kind of require it, or not require, but uh but because the fact that they're so uh uh different uh and and unpredictable that it really kind of you know it it it just demands me to to talk about it. But uh 2007 Sydney Lumet film, uh nearly 50 years uh after releasing his uh debut film, uh two uh 12 Angry Men. I almost said two and a half men. 12 Angry Men. Uh Sydney Lumet uh delivers this gym. Uh it stars uh uh well who does it star uh Philip Seymour Hoffman, Ethan Hawke, uh Albert Finney and Marissa Tomei. Um you know, I I I feel like uh uh in some ways this is Ethan Hawke's movie uh to lead, but in other ways it's also Philip Seymour Hoffman's movie. But uh nonetheless, uh it's uh it's a riveting film with character studies and character arcs that are just unreal. Uh the the film is not linear, uh and in fact it has several times where where it flashes back, and and the purpose of that the flashbacks is to show you the point of view of each character. Uh so you know we have uh the the two brothers, uh Philip Sebrahoppe and Ethan Hawk, and when we have Albert Finney, who placed the their dad. We have their his point of view uh uh as well. Uh, but um it basically it's it starts out with the robbery scene, uh, and uh these two rob a jewelry store. Well, one runs in and robs it, and Ethan Hawk plays the the guy in the getaway car. Uh Ethan Hawk and Philip C. Hopman are brothers. Uh the other guy was not Philip C. or Hopman. He's not actually in the robbery, but he does does design devise the plan. Uh we soon find out that uh that Philip C. or Hopman's uh wife is having an affair, and it's with his brother, Ethan Hawk. And uh Marissa Tolmei is the is uh the the the woman here in question, the one having the affair. And she's um um I think we're led to believe that she's married to Philip Crappin. Uh they certainly share a residence. Um but uh there's a reference to saying we're like an old married couple. Um so I'm it we're not really sure. Uh but uh Philip Cymer Hoppen is I in in my estimation now when you view this film, you might view it from a slightly different uh lens than I do. I'm not sure. But Hoppen seems to be uh uh uh happy that he landed the wife that he landed, but he is struggling, uh struggling. I couldn't care less about Philip C Philip C more Hoppin struggling. Uh um hopefully people understand that reference. But anyway, the um uh the he is uh he is struggling with dealing with with uh inadequacy. And it's very clear that that he is uh an emotional mess in in the movie. And uh we'll we'll talk about each character uh uh in in in a few minutes, but um but his character is the definitively uh more uh complex than all the other characters in this movie, and even though the others have some complexity to them, but the buttons robin's character here is just a total mess. And he does a really great job, by the way. Every movie he's ever in of having complexity uh within his characters, he's just one of the best actors uh that ever lived. Um, but um we're uh let's see, uh we we find out that each of the brothers have financial problems. Uh now in the case of Ethan Hawks, uh his his character, his his uh uh his financial problems are relatively simple. Uh he is just kind of a loser, a sad sack, uh I guess you you could call him. And he uh owes money to his ex-wife for child support. And Philip Seymour Hoffman is somebody that uh we think you know just kind of wants money, but later in the film we realize why he uh wants it. Uh but uh uh the berg brothers uh finally agree with each other to rob their own parents' jewelry store in an effort to satisfy their financial desires. Uh again, one to pay the debts, and the other uh seemingly just so he can make his wife happy by uh moving to uh Brazil because she wants to move to Brazil, uh to I I think Rio specifically. But um he's struggling with the with the money thing and uh feels like they need a boost in order to get uh enough money to uh move to Brazil. Uh the jewelry store robbery uh goes horribly awry. Uh so much so that uh the mom gets shot during the the robbery and ends up in ICU and then eventually uh on a machine, living on a machine. And uh it's it's terrible. Uh so again, the film isn't linear, uh and it goes back in time uh to show uh the character's thoughts and how they see uh the action unfolding. Um now again, there's no spoilers until the end of uh the show, but uh but the movie depicts the uh unraveling of the two brothers uh after the botch robbery. And then boy, is it an unraveling. It's one of my favorite kind of movies because the movie uh shows how uh you know uh well, like for example, the movie A Simple Plan. Uh we taught we covered that a uh several years ago uh with Bill Paxton and and Billy Bob Thornton. How when things go wrong, when you did something bad and things go wrong, they can just absolutely cascade uh to a level where you get you get pummeled and you can't handle it anymore. And that's exactly what happens to these two two two men. Um, but uh let's talk about uh the the cast and the characters. Um I feel like this is kind of the best way to describe uh the film. Uh Ethan Hawk plays Hank Hansen. Uh Hank is uh just he's just a loser type. Uh he owes the child support. Uh he lives in a crappy apartment. He uh is just down on his luck, but clearly uh he's not creating any breaks for himself. He's kind of obviously somebody that uh you know we we don't get a whole lot of information, uh, but we get the feeling we know enough to know that to figure out that he has some just some problems, you know, with making it in life. Uh he knows he has problems, uh, but he he he just can't seem to get out of his own way. Uh and of course, and the robbery, he brings a buddy uh that uh has done these types of things before. Uh, but uh, you know, that was the real problem with with the robbery, is is that wasn't how it was supposed to go down. Uh his brother wanted him to take a toy gun into the store and and rob rob them with in with a with a toy gun. And it wasn't supposed to be his mom there, it was supposed to be another worker. And the idea is, hey, uh, you know, well, uh mom and dad will be okay because they'll get insurance money. So it's you know, they beat it as almost a victimless crime, except for the insurance company. Uh, but uh Ethan Hawk does a great job in this movie. Yes, he always does a great job. Uh he often, though, excels in these types of roles where he's he's uh bounced off of a character uh with uh little that's a little stronger. Um like training day uh is a good example where Ethan Hawk really shines. Um and that's why he is 55. Uh Philip Seymour Hoffen uh plays Andy Hansen, and as I said, uh his character is a lot more complex, uh, but he does more than a good job here. It's uh uh this is just an unbelievable performance by Philip Seymour Hoffman, except you will believe it because it's Philip Seymour Hoffman. Uh but Andy uh has a has a good job, but uh then he's also got a beautiful wife. Uh at least, like I said, we we we think they're married. However, he seems to be in worse shape emotionally than Hank. Um and uh Andy just can't satisfy his wife, uh Marissa Tomei, and we're speaking uh sexually and and otherwise, you know, even though he's clearly makes a good paycheck, um, you know, uh there's still some desire for more uh money there. And um uh but she's having an affair with with his brother, you know, and and uh and he's got some sort of embezzling scheme. I'm talking about Philip C. Robbins character, got some embezzling scheme going on with which involves uh pay taking pay pay take taking a terminated employees and and and and taking their paychecks and throwing them into various accounts that belong to Philip C. Robbins character. And it's a terrible scheme. Eventually you're gonna get found out with stuff like that. Uh, but uh but of course we find out why he needs money so bad. Um uh because he's on cocaine and heroin. Uh and he has issues with his dad because he never got the affection that he w wanted or praise that he wanted. And uh it's just uh uh his character is just absolutely intense. Um and Hoffman just plays him brilliantly. Uh and uh the uh the drug thing is is really sad because we know how uh Piloty Ron Hoffman died in 2014 um you know of uh hair have heroin overdose and and to see him do heroin on the screen is is quite uh challenging and dis and disturbing. Um but uh you churn through it and and um and we're hopefully far enough removed from his death where we can separate ourselves from it a little bit, but it is jarring to see that. Um yeah. Uh one thing on on a lighter note uh for Hoppen, or kind of a funny note, is the beginning of the movie. Uh now this is a you know, beware, buyer, beware kind of thing. I uh this movie is just absolutely fabulous. Um it starts out in a way that you're going, what am I watching here? It starts out with a sex scene and it's uh relatively uh intense. Um, and uh we've got uh um you know the the you know the the um I mean immediate thrusting. It's like how did this movie get just an R rating? I'm not exactly sure, but um, but uh that's where we are with it. Um and that's how the movie starts. It starts with the sex scene, and but the funny thing about the the sex scene was that of course Philip C. Moorhoff had never done anything like that before. Um and and Sidney Lumet said that he was very concerned about it, and Marissa Tomei was very aware of of Hoffman's concerns. So um the funny part is that she gets on the bed and she just slaps herself in in uh slaps herself on the backside and and and says, come on, let's go, you know, and and uh um just try to alleviate any of any of Hoffman's uh concerns or or um you know because I think it's almost like a it's almost like uh the kind of part of the movie uh is that he is he feels inadequate and and I think that's where he was with with uh filming uh a sex scene. And I don't want to call it a love scene because it it's a sex scene, you know. You know, they are really going at it. Well, I uh not for real, obviously, but you know, it sure looks like it. Um but um in any case, um I I think it's just funny the the way we met described the the story of the the two of them. I tried to find that um that quote on a recording, but I I couldn't find I was gonna include it with the podcast. But he did say that that uh she just jumped on the bed and and and made and made him feel okay about it instantly. And I think that's probably just her nature, Marisa Tomei. Um of course uh Tomei. you know uh she won an Oscar it's it's um it's kind of interesting that that that these great actors that are in this movie well we'll talk about Alfred Finney again too um but um uh you know these these these great actors are are in this movie and and then we've got Philip Z Roman never won uh you know an Oscar and which is just a travesty um and uh uh you know but these uh are all accomplished stage actors and we'll talk about that too in a minute um about the stage actor part of of this uh movie uh but Marisa Tomei uh you know uh she of course uh won an Oscar for my cousin Vinny and uh yeah we're not gonna get into that story about the whole bit there but uh she won that award for real and it's it's her Oscar she deserved it and uh she also got a nomination for the wrestler um uh 20 years later uh it's a long uh list of credits for Marisa Tomei uh she is 61 years old by the way and um she she is good um or or she play she is good here uh she plays uh kind of both sides of of the fence between the two brothers um uh I uh Marisa Tomei is is really uh there's not a lot of not a lot of actresses out there that would have done the same kind of job see part of it is um she she's absolutely beautiful you know and and and and that's part of the the whole situation um is it's she's not just um you know an average looking woman she's an incredible looking woman um but um but she has to play a certain way uh in in a way where um where hoppin's character has to uh you know like I said feel inadequate but it's still she is somebody that is supportive to a large extent um you know and and again we'll give won't give spoilers but she's very supportive of of him you know even though you can tell there's some real frustration there um you know but Marissa Dome is just priceless in this movie and I I like the same way she is in my cousin Vinny my cousin Vinny's not the same movie without Marissa Tomei it's just not and I uh you know I I'm sorry but the best actresses on the earth uh are you can't thrust into the the the role these roles uh the way she was in my cousin Vinny um and and the and the way she is in this movie the the best actresses the you know that are living today um could not have necessarily done a better job than Marisa Tomei does here um you know there's some um just there's something there you know and uh she's just really uh she pulls off a great acting job um but you gotta have someone that's absolutely gorgeous in this role because that's part of the whole thing of why Hoffman uh obviously feels uh uh in inadequate and um you know uh but uh anyway uh so uh we've got uh Albert Finney who who plays the dad uh and uh of course he's a top-notch actor with tons of credits and academy uh nominations um here he plays an emotionally distant father uh but but I but he I think he knows he's got issues and uh no we we only have about a week's worth of time here in this movie for for character development to happen but it does seem to develop and and it revolves around the the uh the the you know the mom being in the hospital and and okay here come the spoilers everybody go ahead if you haven't seen this movie go ahead and and uh hit pause and then go on one of the mini apps that before the devil knows your dead is on at least I hope it's still on when you hear this um and uh watch it and then come back and hear me talk about the end um okay yeah let's all go to the lobby let's all go to the lobby let's all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat okay hopefully everybody has hit pause that if he needed to hit pause and now it's just us talking the ones that have seen it um our Finney is absolutely brilliant I think though that he here his character he he knows he's got dad dad pro he's got problems being a dad um he knows he favored uh uh the one the younger boy uh Ethan Hawk and and he turned out to be a mess and he didn't favor the older boy and he turned out to be a mess Philip C. Hoppin and and they're messes there are messes in different ways um and it's just uh you know he but he knows that he had issues um you know being a a good dad um and it makes it very clear uh after mom dies that you know he is really going through it and wanting to uh to tell you know uh his son hey look I I'm sorry I wasn't there for you uh you know uh all the time I'm sorry I didn't give you the uh the uh affection that you wanted and and um and Hoffman's uh reaction was um not forgiving you know and and the scene where he is in the car uh unloading his emotions uh with uh Marissa Tomei is absolutely devastating it's just a a brilliant raw scene uh with uh Philip Zimmer Hoffen uh pulling off really one of the best uh just yeah I just think this is just a fabulous performance by by Hoppen. But you know Albert Finney though he plays to the dad who clearly loved his wife and he loved his family uh members um you know we could tell he really loved his grandkids uh or his granddaughter uh but uh uh but he knows he's not perfect and and it really empties out uh in in the scene you know after the the mom's funeral uh we see Finney with uh you know a a a really interesting character arc because of the death of his wife and because of the and then of course uh um he you know we see him go from distant to uh remorseful uh to out eye anger when the uh when it's revealed to him that you know hey his son was involved here uh this is his son's pot and um anyway um or or or or uh Albert Finney I mean uh he uh he died in 2019 he was 82 and a really long career uh really great career uh rosemary Harris plays the the mother uh uh that uh gets shot and murdered basically um her role is limited but she appears to be yeah a pretty loving wife and loving mother in in the mood in the in the movie where she the parts that she is in uh and by the way she will turn 99 years old uh in September uh Amy Ryan plays Hank's ex-wife and she is worn out from his butt and so she's worn out from asking for child support from Hank uh Ethan Hawk's character uh right Ryan is of course uh an accomplished actress uh uh um nominated for an Oscar and a Tony uh she is uh 58 and uh there is a commonality here with the actors uh that we have listed here and the ones that are in this movie and that they are stage actors they're obviously movie actors too um but they have they uh but all the actors um the the main players in this movie are accomplished stage actors too and so it's really uh the a choice that Sidney Lumet made um because he wanted these characters to really all they be the movie you know and they he wanted the character arcs to be the star of the movie so so to speak uh Michael Shannon's in this too it's this movie just has just a ridiculous amount of of talent uh Michael Shannon uh his his role is brief um but it is intense uh he plays a mid-level criminal uh kind of thug got type uh he uh uh you know he he basically rounds out the cast uh uh probably has the the the only comic relief unless you laugh at the beginning with Ethan Hawk um the mustache thing and all this uh and there's a little little tiny bit of of humor there but um but uh we've got Michael Shannon uh pulling out the uh the Chico and Groucho reference and that's kind of funny I I um and it's it's kind of good that the um the the the Lumed and and the writer come up with uh something funny to put right there um let's see uh but yeah Michael Shannon and those of you were hopping I I would call them um character actors that really change they're they're kind of game changers in movies that they're in um they can make a bad movie good um by their presence and you know and uh this Michael Shannon's an absolutely fabulous actor um it's weird you know you you you definitely don't want to rank these guys because they're just you know uh they all have their own styles and it's and it all works so well it's great um the score here is by Carter Burwell uh it works out really well too um he's got 45 years of writing scores including uh a bunch for the Cohen brothers yeah he's re he's written most of their scores um uh but uh just uh Burwell has uh received three Oscar nominations uh along the way in his career uh the film was also shot well by cinematographer Ron Fortunado who I surprisingly doesn't didn't have a lot of other movie experience I was a little surprised to find that out because he he does such a fantastic job here and of course then we come down to uh Sydney Lumet uh the the uh director of this fine movie um I think so met uh if you know much about the history of music um Sydney Lumet is basically uh and this is going to be you know high praise here but he's kind of like Beethoven of of uh the film industry and what I mean by that is is that Beethoven was was not really a traditional classical music writer uh composer he was really more uh he really kind of was a transition between the romantic era um you know where you have Chopin and Taikovsky and and um uh you know and a bunch of others but but then you know he's transitioning from Mozart to those guys um he didn't know that he was doing it at the time but that's what he was doing. And so that's what Lumet is doing when he did when he shot 12 angry men we were still in the golden age of Hollywood um but you know in 1959 you don't know it's the golden age of Hollywood it you don't know that it just it comes if you get it's labeled that many years later and it's like oh yeah and through happen or through uh uh retrospect you can see uh the there was a certain time where movies were a certain way and that's the way it was but Lumet was not a traditional you know golden age of Hollywood director but he's also not a traditional uh tour you know like Scorsese or you know uh it's just it's just an interesting thing because he bridges the gap between old Hollywood and new Hollywood and that's what the kind of thing that that's the kind of thing that Lumet was attached to and was able to really be one of the directors to head up a transition. You got guys like Hitchcock and and Billy Wilder uh you know who uh John Ford who were deeply entrenched uh in old Hollywood even though they were pushing um uh the envelope a little bit uh with their movies uh particularly Billy Wilder and Hitchcock they were pushing the envelope a little bit but but they and they did make it all the way into the 70s uh uh you know those two anyway um and but the problem is is uh that uh they didn't really make their best um work in the 70s whereas Lumet you know you know even although we you might say 12 Angry Men is his best movie uh you might even say this one is um but the bulk of his great work was in the 70s with the new Hollywood people um but Lumet uh of course director 12 Angry Men Failsafe Murder on the Orient Express Serpico Dog Day Afternoon uh The Verdict and Network that is a really long list of great movies uh Sydney Lumette is uh just an absolutely fantastic uh director and you know just I I think it's understated how great of a director he was when you look at that list it's like wow that's a great list uh he did have a a a pretty long dry spell where uh of not real success um you know but uh but finished his career with this masterpiece you know the difference between like uh Lumet and say uh Kubrick is that it it's pretty clear you know like every single film that Kubrick made was a great movie uh borderline masterpiece you know um every one of them uh except for maybe his first one um but the the difference here is that Sydney Lamed uh helmed fifty projects in fifty years and you know we we we get barely got a dozen from Kubrick so I think there's something to be said about about churning out project after project after project and constantly just churning these things out and having a lot of them be really good especially in the 70s a lot of them being really good now uh yeah obviously you have the Dry spell uh in the 80s and the 90s and um and that you know but um it wasn't that they would the his movies were bad movies for the for the most part at all it's just that they just weren't as you know big or or as important as the ones in the 70s um you know but the the you know but he was like a factory uh as far as turning out these movies um he's very efficient and um you know it kind of uh in in the clinistwood way uh but this uh film is really uh hard to describe it it it it's it's really a neo noir uh thriller but city lumette wants you the viewer to look at it differently and he wanted you to view this as a melodrama and if you take away the guns and um and the the the fact that this is you know so such high stakes um it is a melodrama like wait a minute and City the Bed insisted that this was a melodrama and I think that was just um revelation to me when uh I saw some of his quotes uh and said he said unequivocally this is a melodrama and he said he did he he he um he didn't use the word angry but you could tell that he was frustrated that people view melodrama as as as something bad or or not you know and not brilliant and because you have a lot of of uh heightened acting um you know but he said no melodrama is a lot harder to pull off uh than you think when you when you really consider it it's it's true because um you know you look at hallmark movies or whatever and and and you know they see these uh lifetime movies or you know the none of them are terrible terrible but the you know but none of them are great either so you know uh it I think I understand where he's come from so if you're gonna make a great melodrama um you you know you really got to put your mind to it and um you know in other words you can walk through it if you want to you can hire mediocre actors or or or or I don't want to say that but you can you can hire just just people and just guys to to come be on the screen or in front of the camera you know just the uh average actors that you know maybe unknowns even um but in this case he hires all these brilliant stage actors that um are you know are also um obviously movie stars too um but they um brought something to the table to this project that a group another group of actors maybe wouldn't have and um you know I mean I I there's some uh uh it it it was pretty clear I was trying to find some casting changes or casting want desires no I think this this his hand picked uh cast uh because I couldn't find any evidence uh that cindy le met wanted anybody else in these main roles and uh you know what you know if you did a what if um like I said you can just name the the uh the uh actress and and put her in Marissa Tomey's place it's not happening it's not happening and it's just it's just not uh you know I I think I think Nicole Kidman in 2007 pulls off a a similar one but uh but Marissa Tomei is just you know that I think that that that beauty factor is part of it and um you know that might make some people Upset um that I that I'm saying that, but I'm telling you, you know, that when you have someone uh like Philip Sierra Hobbin who clearly, clearly had um some issues with um feeling inferior, um, you know, and he's married to somebody that beautiful, it's probably hard to deal with. And that was part of uh part of the deal. You don't just have a really great actress, but you also have somebody that um is an unbelievable beauty, and it's hard really to um for him to come to grips with that and uh deal with um with things. But uh but Lumet uh shot this very efficiently, uh, which was common for him. He had a reputation for being an actor's director. Um, like I said, it compared him to Clint Eastwood. Uh he died in 2011, and just you know, four years after this movie came out. He was 86. And um the the the great thing about this movie, there's a lot of great things, but it's a huge unraveling of of the of the two brothers and um and uh obviously uh of their dad. He is going through uh, you know, can you imagine what it would feel like to know that your sons are involved with robbing your store and they killed your wife in the store while this happened? That that's just uh uh we let that as the viewer go go buy us, uh at least I think a lot of people probably do when they first watch it. The it's just oh that's kind of weird. They're robbing their parents. That's a little weird. Um, we get that, but the fact that these two are brothers, the the one brother's cheating on or the one brother uh is uh having sex with the other guy's wife, the other brother's wife, um, and then we have uh the other component of the that they're robbing their parents. I mean, who are these people? How I mean are they amoral? And and the answer really is not really, they're not amoral, they're just deeply flawed. And you know, it's and and I think that's what makes the movie work is is that they have such deep flaws. Uh, but I I'll I think I said the word already, but yeah, I'm calling this a masterpiece. Um, I think that this is just uh uh a brilliant, brilliant movie. Um uh sadly, it did not get a wide release, and uh they sent off Sydney Lemet with him making a great movie, but but not in the um not in the way um you know not not not not having a wide release really hurt. Uh you know, Warner Brothers did that to Clint Eastwood, you know, too. Uh yeah, with what was what is probably his last movie. Um and uh uh but in any case, um this is a great way to go out. And uh this is a really great way to go out. Uh I I think uh the one of the th interesting things is that this is a really good, I mean, this is such a good movie. I I think it should have been, I think it's Oscar-worthy. But here's the thing. This movie, as intense as it is, came out as the same year, uh came out the same year as as There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men. You know, wow, that's a trio of movies, right? And by the way, I have called Before the Devil Knows Your Dead a movie rather than a film. I tend to say the word film a lot. I tr I usually uh refer to movies as films. Um, this one uh is not a film. Um he did it digitally, uh Lumet did this digit, and and he unlike uh unlike Scorsese or a lot of directors, like you know, probably I don't know about Spielberg, but most likely, um uh but a lot of the the old school directors um we probably resisted um doing movies digitally only and abandoning film. Um but Cindy Lamette, you know, uh this is one of the first movies that um that that was made uh that they completely abandoned the film concept and just made it entirely uh digitally. Um but I I find that to be interesting too. Uh uh there's some discussions that he had about it and and how he really liked it doing do it, you know, shooting this way. Why did I say filming this way, shooting this way? Uh but uh the film did uh I did call the film. Uh it did get $25 million on a $17 million budget. And uh, but I I think that this movie is grossly underrated. Um, is it better than No Country for Old Men? Uh, and is it better than There'll Be Blood? Um, I gotta be honest, I like it just as much as those two. Um, I think There Will Be Blood probably has um the single best performance of uh an actor or for by an actor um in this century. Uh you know, I think Daniel Day Lewis is so good in that movie, um, he's entrenched in greatness in that movie. Um, but this movie has several really great performances, and I I think it just it it bears mention, and and I think we just need to hold this movie up. And the in the same way we hold these other those other two. But uh let's see. Uh I I I did some thinking and and and I was trying to think of uh directors that had equally good swan songs, and I I came up with a uh you know fairly short list. Uh a lot of these guys, uh you know, I they're like ball players. They they have to be they have to be not accepted anymore uh for them before they realize, oh, I maybe I just don't have it anymore. You know, because filmmakers want to keep making movies. They they just do most of the time, most of the time. I think it might be even be an addiction for them, and then it's just something that it's just part of what they are, but I don't think I don't think hardly any filmmaker retires because just because they want to retire. And I I know some do. I I get that. Um, but um you know, but I I don't think they're the the majority of them do. Um but here uh I I did come up with a list of uh um uh True Foe, of course, uh had Confidentially Yours, uh really good movie, and that was a good Swan song. Uh Stanley Kubrick, Eyes Wide Shut, uh uh Doug Cirque, Imitation of Life, uh definitely a melodrama. Uh Sergio Leone, uh Once Upon a Time in America. Uh, those are the ones that I would put up with this one as far as swan songs for directors. Uh, I think this is really a wonderful way for Sidney Lumet uh to uh uh finalize a career, finish up a career. Uh of course, we talked about Hitchcock uh doing Family Plot uh in 1976, uh uh some weeks ago uh with uh with our good friend uh Glenn Andriev. Uh we talked about that movie from 1976, Family Plot, which I think is a good movie. Um it doesn't hold up to the ones I just mentioned, and doesn't hold up to before the devil knows you're dead either. But um uh what a great movie. I I have been wanting to record an episode on this for so long, and uh I I remember watching it for the first time. My first experience was uh when it first came out on cable, and I was just blown away by the the structure of the story and and the way uh everything breaks down and everything goes totally awry uh for the brothers in this and and and for the dad. Um but uh it's just it's a devastating story, absolutely devastating. Um, you know, uh of course we haven't talked about the actual ending, which I've I just realized uh the you know uh I said no spoilers at the beginning until until we get to the end. Um the real spoiler is you know what are you thinking about dad, you know, just absolutely killing his son. Just killing him. Yeah, just killing him. It's crazy. Um I I wonder how many other men would do that. I I I I don't know. I I I can't judge the character for doing that. I can't. I'm not saying that I would. I am not saying that you should, um, but I just understand. And um I just wonder what everybody else thinks about that ending. And uh, you know. Wow, what an ending, huh? You know, he kills his own son. Um, you know, of course, this is following um, you know, his son. What almost killing his other son. It's crazy. You know, and like I said, I are, you know, I I think the only one that might be amoral is Phil C. Robbins' character. I I I'm not sure. I I I think deeply flawed and immoral is the better way to put it. Um, and I and I don't think he was I I think he was probably um you know, so into so or he was probably uh so addicted to drugs that he wasn't even thinking like a rational person. So maybe that's part of it too, but I don't know. Uh but anyway, this movie is not like one of those pick-me-up say, like, hey, what a blast. This is so fun. It it it the ending is so intense and so uh sad um and in some ways terrible, um, but it's brilliant. And uh even though the movie isn't fun, I definitely had fun talking about it. I think this is a fantastic film. Uh I call that a film again. I think it's a fantastic movie, and uh I highly recommend it to people that can handle the intensity uh because it is intense. It is it is intensely melodramatic, too. You know, so anyway, I've had a lot of fun. Thank you for listening. Uh, please do me the favor of liking and subscribing on the podcast platform you're listening to this on. Please give me a good review, and I'll thank you.