The Whales of August

In this episode, we talk about the 1987 film The Whales of August. The film stars legends Lillian Gish, Bette Davis, Ann Sothern, and Vincent Price. These stars had all aged but we talk about all of the great performances, the compelling story, and the beautiful cinematography of this unique film. We also talk about how  Gish and Davis bickered with each other during production. Click and listen! 🎥🎥🎬🎬

Thanks for listening! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

The whales of August.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

The whales of August would be nice. Do we go here instead of these two?

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Well, hello, and welcome to Cinema Chat with David Heath, and I am your host. My name is David Heath, and I'm happy to come to the listeners today. I'm going to be discussing the 1987 film, as the trailer had indicated, The Whales of August. We'll talk about the production, the cast, the wonderful cast, and we'll also talk about just the how the movie did at the box office and that kind of thing. But let's get into it. We're going to have some factoights about the movie. And it is a movie that is considering the gigantic personalities that are in it, Lillian Gish and Betty Davis. Certainly Betty Davis has a gigantic personality. But regardless of that, it just is a hidden gem. It came out in 1987, and it's directed by Lindsay Anderson, who uh had is directing a film much different than others. He had directed Malcolm McDowell in in a couple of uh films, including O Lucky Man, which has a completely different pace than this uh slow paced, and that isn't that's not a negative, but it it is slow paced. Uh but you know, a song a movie like O Lucky Man with Malcolm McDowell, I recommend seeing that. But it is almost the exact opposite of this film. That's about a young man, and the film is at a very rapid pace. And this one, not so much that you're gonna take it slow, take it easy. It's almost like uh a day out on the porch and just sitting there talking and sometimes. Uh it's not always that pleasant, but it just does feel that way. Uh, but it's uh yeah, like I said, directed by Lindsay Graham, or Lindsay Graham, Lindsay Anderson, um and uh uh the um uh yeah, the film stars uh Lillian Gish, uh, who was 93 when they started filming. 93. And one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about The Wales of August is because well, first of all, it's a really wonderful, warm film, uh at times uh a little you know heartbreaking and at times, but but it is a warm, warm film. But the the interesting thing about this, and I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but now we're really coming out of full bloom. Um Lillian Gish starred in a film in 1912 called The Unseen Enemy with her sister Dorothy. Now we are 75 years later, and she's starring in another film, The Whales of August. That's 75 years. Now, what I challenge every listener to do, and I have challenged some very heavy hitting hitting minds on this, there ain't no other actor out there ever that starred in a film and and then 75 years later started another one. It has not happened. I don't know that it can happen, but one of the amazing things about it is Lillian Gish was an adult. She did she when she was in the unseen enemy. It's like uh it's it's just like it's absolutely insane that that that she was uh an adult when she was an unseen enemy. And then 75 years later, she stars in another one. Now, there are lots of not lots, but there are a few examples of actors uh such as Mickey Rooney, who had you know a a career slightly longer than Lillian Gish's career, but he didn't headline a movie, he didn't star in a movie. Uh now you could make a case for saying the you know Betty well Betty Davis sort of has top billing, and we'll get to that in a second. But no, Lillian Gish is the star of this film, and that's Betty Betty Davis is the co-star, regardless of what the billing looks like. This is Lillian Gish's film. Uh and uh they they I just think this is just a wonderful movie, and I think it's absolutely fantastic that Lillian Gish had 75 years. I'll challenge you again. Now let's say it again. Now, 1912 to 1987, that's the span of of be of Lillian Gish's career, uh film career. Um, you know, and again, I'll repeat, there are other actors that were in movies, you know, uh that many years later, but they had bid parts. Um you know, I I think um I I think I counted three, maybe four actors, and there may be a couple more that were in a in a film uh in a cameo or maybe just in one moment, like Mark Lawrence uh was in uh the um uh the 2003 uh uh uh Looney Tunes movie, It's Escaping Me. Um but his career spanned 76 years. And I know I think Mickey Rooney, if I remember, uh, was eighty years. But these guys didn't headline headline most of their movies. Mickey Rooney certainly did in the beginning, but later in his career, I mean, he was always just kind of like, hey, look at me, kind of thing. And um just always hamming it up in front of the camera. Um, but he didn't star in a film. So that th that's a very big distinction. And I don't know there what exactly the technicalities would be, and you know, but this is some sort of a record that little English has. Uh, but we will get off of that uh for a minute. Well, we're gonna get off of that for a while. Um, but uh yeah, uh Betty Davis, of course, Oscar winner, uh two times. This is a typical role for Betty Davis. Uh, one of the things that made Betty Davis great is she did not mind look, she did not mind looking ugly. And I say ugly, sometimes she had some ugly makeup, uh, whatever happened to Baby Jane. Uh, and sometimes she just had an ugly personality, which uh the Wales of August, she certainly does. She's she's uh she's a bitter old woman uh in this movie. And uh, but of course the movie also uh stars Ann Southern, who got an Oscar nomination for for supporting role uh in this movie. Uh and she stars as uh their uh friend Tisha and and she is uh uh in the film and in a few scenes and they're memorable. And uh one of the scenes are she's you know, well, she tries to flirt with Vincent Price a couple of times, and it's it's quite humorous, and and she's she's fun. Uh as a matter of fact, um, you know, Ann Southern gave an interview about um uh uh about her career, and she mentioned, of course, uh the erb was mentioned the that she won or that she was nominated for an Oscar, but uh this is what she had to say about it.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

I'm happy to have a nomination. That would be enough for me, except I wish to win.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

She she won it she wanted to win. Uh but uh she was nominated though, and and and I I think it's I I think it's uh it's a really nice gesture on the Academy Spark part uh because she's quite funny. And and I and her role is necessary because uh she's sort of uh a uh sort of a relief for the other two our two our two main characters, Lillian Gish and Betty Davis. Now interestingly, on the uh we'll get to the credits here. Uh on the credits, Lillian Gish's name is above Betty Davis's, but it's to the right. And Betty Davis's is to the left, uh, which sort of means she has top billing, but technically Lilyn Gish is above Betty Davis. Uh so they were very creative in putting that that one together. Lily and Gish didn't care about top billing. Uh Betty Davis cared a lot about it, and evidently she uh caused a a stink about it. You know, and they also did not get along during the the year during the uh production at all. Uh evidently uh uh Betty Davis was upset that Lillian Gish ke uh uh uh she's she claimed that Lillian Gish was missing her cues. Um but I think it may have been created on purpose, like the antagonism, because I I think that Betty Davis just wanted to up her performance, and I think it's possible anyway. This is complete can complete speculation on my part. I really don't know. If we were in a courtroom, um the other side would be saying uh objection cut speculation, okay? But I think that it I'm gonna give Betty Davis the benefit of the doubt that she was trying to create some antagon antagonism just so she could perform better. I I I don't know. But it it worked uh because yeah, they they they were really good on the screen against the each other. Uh but but everything that I have researched indicates that Lillian Gish really was not that hard of hearing at at the time, and that Betty Davis was probably overblowing it. You know, but highly possible, don't know for sure. But uh the two sisters in the movie uh have trouble getting along with each other, and it's mostly Libby's fault, Betty Davis, because Betty Davis won't be nice uh to her sister. Uh it takes place in Maine, of course, takes place in August. And uh uh the two uh sisters are from uh Philadelphia, you know, some nearby. Uh but uh there's a lot of uh tea and small talk in the movie, but but there's noticeable tension and consistently Betty Davis is a character is making snide comments and sometimes just quite mean comments. And um, you know, but that like I said, that real life tension probably added to the to the performances. Um I I I want to think it did. I really do want to give Bay Davis the benefit of the doubt. You know, I think she did the same thing to Joan Crawford, um, which of course they had a long standing feud, but uh well, I guess we won't get into that quite uh quite right now. But uh uh the main reason for the title is because the there there are um evidently the whales would go visit where they were staying at seaside in Maine. Of course, uh the uh the sisters wanted to see them, particularly Lillian Gish. Uh her character wanted to see uh the whales. But uh Vincent Price uh, of course, is in it, and he's a little bit of a romantic interest um of Lily and Gish and also of Ann Southern's characters. Um of course Vincent Price is the horror king, and and this and that he's in a much different role. A lot of times when he wasn't in horror films, uh he he wasn't really in horror films in the 40s for the most part, um, but uh he still had and played a role of an antagonist quite a bit. Even if not a villain, uh he was still an antagonist. Uh so he did that quite often, and you know, his voice lent to that. But here uh he is a very kindly gentleman, and he really just kind of wants to uh wants to get along with everybody, and and uh Davis doesn't want to allow that. Uh but um uh Harry Carey Jr. is also in this, and and if you're not sure who that is, he's the guy you've seen in a million westerns, if you've seen a lot of westerns, uh notably in in he was with John Wayne, he performed with Robert Mitchum, and he also much later uh performed, uh even after a Wells of August, he performed uh in Back to the Future 3 and in Tombstone. So uh he's a guy that you would recognize uh from from that, from those. And he's playing a slightly different role because normally he's he's in an awful lot of westerns. Um then here this is not a western, it's far eastern as you can go in the United States, um, pretty much. But uh there are some beautiful shots, and um a gentleman uh named uh Mike uh Mike Fash uh is the cinematographer. Uh and this uh was one of only a few of his only chances to do it, and he did such a fantastic job. Never will understand how cinematographers sometimes they do a great job and they never get hired again. Yeah, it's weird, but it does happen. Yeah. There's a lot of soft music by Alan Price. Again, somebody that uh did not really do this kind of music, but this is really soft and warm music that you you could, you know, if you're just listening to it by itself, uh you could probably fall asleep to it. Uh, you know, but here's a guy, Alan Price, that was in the rock group The Animals. If you're familiar with the Animals, I mean they were not soft, they were pretty rough around the edges, and they played some pretty hard music from the 60s. Um, but the uh whales of August have has a really soft uh uh soft uh score, and it's wonderful to listen to. Um Catherine Headburn uh was approached uh to uh play uh I think she was asked to do both roles, asked if she was interested in either one. And uh I don't I I I I think I think they really kind of wanted her to do the uh Benny Davis role, uh, but Benny Davis eventually took it and Catherine Hepburn turned it down. Um there seems to be some conflict or uh uh conflicting um representations of what was going on with the casting, uh, because um on one hand the the the it's been said by the director that that Lillian Gish was in was in mind for her role the entire time. And but it I've also heard that two other actresses, including Catherine Heburn, were were offered that role. So I'm not really sure where the truth lies. Um but it it all worked out as as it seems to most of the time. The you know the the actors you know are usually in place. If uh if a film is cast badly, then it's probably a really bad film. Uh because it's usually not the actor's fault when the when the film is bad. Uh but uh but I I think uh Catherine Hepburn was probably approached for multiple reasons. Obviously, she's a great, great actress. I mean, that's no question about that. Um but I this film also had a little bit of an on golden pond feel to it. Uh you know, you got nor uh norm, you know, you got Betty Davis playing the the Norman Thayer part, you know, except husband and wife here they're sisters, not husband and wife. And so I think that's really the main uh difference. And that may have been one reason why Hepburn didn't want to didn't want to do it. Um and it it just could have been that she just didn't feel like doing it. I don't know. Um but but it's an interesting uh way. I I think I could easily see Catherine Hepburn playing either side. Um something I failed to mention um is one reason why Betty Davis's character is so bitter is because she's gone blind. And uh so I I failed to mention that. Um and that's something that is um uh probably problematic for her personality. Uh you know, she obviously got bitter uh because she's old and you know not important anymore the way she feels anyway. Um but uh the um um then anyway, the Wales of Aw get August is just to me, it's just such a really, really, really good movie. The but screenplay is by David Barry, uh who David Barry wrote a lot of plays, and uh this one looks like a play, and you know, but it has the beautiful setting of the ocean, and that makes uh look more uh cinematic. Uh now the film only made $1.3 million uh the on a three million dollar budget. Uh three million we we we will just call it a modest one, but it didn't uh it did not have any marketing w almost whatsoever. They just put it out there in theaters and let it sink or swim. And unfortunately it just wasn't a big hit. Um now I the film had some good reviews and you know it didn't have any really poor reviews, but but but Siskel and Ebert argued about it uh a little bit in the in their show. Gene Siskel did didn't like the film overall, but he loved Lillian Gish in it, and he loved Lily and Gish for her for her performance and not for the fact that it was just a novelty, hey, look at this 93-year-old in a movie. It was because the fact that she uh performed well and didn't like the rest of the movie. Um Roger Eber was uh really sad. Not in not indignant or uh or angry, just sad that Gene Siskel didn't receive joy uh from this film. And uh yeah, I I I was kind of I was kind of sad for Gene Siskel too when I saw when I saw the clip uh from 1987 uh from there at the movie show. Uh but it it's it's a it's a warm, wonderful film, and I love it. If you haven't seen it, then you know it's on YouTube. There's no reason not to be able to see it. Yeah, the movie moves relatively slowly. Well, not even relatively, it moves very slowly, very methodically. But guess what? It's 90 minutes long. This isn't a slog, this is 90 minutes, and when when it's over, uh you just kind of have this nice little sigh uh because you saw something wonderful. And yeah, it's beautiful. Uh, the only thing I don't like about the Wheels of August, I'm gonna be just completely honest, is I really wish that I really wish that Betty Davis would have been nice to Lily and Gish. But maybe that was something that lifted the the the film because of their antagonism. I don't know. Certainly something that lifted whatever happened to Baby Jane, right? But here uh Lily and Gish shines, and so does Betty Davis, and and so does Ann Southern, and so does Vincent Price. It's uh really for really, really great performances. I love the seeing these these people. The and the only other thing about it is is is knowing that this was the the last uh project uh for uh Lily and get Gish. And uh it was the next the last project for Betty Davis, and it was the last project for Ann Southern. Uh Vincent Price would go on and do some other things, um uh as would Harry Carey Jr., who was in it. Um you would I I like I said, I I think I mentioned earlier uh people my age would recognize Harry Carey Jr. from Back to Future 3 and from Tombstone. And uh oh, you know, and uh other folks would recognize him uh from being in John Wayne movies and also being in a movie with Rod Robert Mitchum back in the day. Uh but anyway, uh I d I highly recommend watching The Wales of August. Uh you get it all in in 90 minutes, it's on YouTube, it's on it's on several several venues, and I always hesitate to tell people when something is on a certain app because sometimes they disappear. And you might be listening to this seven years later. Hey, I still get clicks on on podcast episodes from eight years ago, so uh yeah, you just never know what people are going to be clicking on uh or when people are gonna click on it. Well, anyway, I want to thank everybody for listening uh to me talk for 20 minutes about the whales of August. I want to also ask you, please, if you uh have not subscribed to the podcast, and all all you got to do is just click subscribe on the on the app that you're listening to this on, or whatever whatever you're listening to this on, um, I ask and you kindly please subscribe because that will help the show trend. And it will help more people, more people find the show, more people will find classic films. And uh, by the way, this is a classic film now. It's 39 years old. And of course, the actors in it were in an awful lot of classic films. I I think uh altogether the the the five of them, including Harry Carey Jr. Uh had uh uh I think around 650 credits or something like that. That's a lot. Uh and I and that's just uh uh doing quick math on my part, it's very it's not exact, uh but somewhere around there. Well, thank you again for listening and tell your friends about Cinema Chat with David Heath.