"We're helping people on a fundamental level to be more sustainable" Hussein Allawi, Founder the Sustainability Show

From the high-stakes financial environment of the now defunct Lehman Brothers ("buy-and-sell in its most aggressive manner") to putting on an exhibition of some of the most ethical and long-term thinking brands.

That’s the varied journey which my guest, Hussein Allawi, has been on. He took plenty of lessons from those early days, days which he found very lacking in purpose, but which have informed how he's now actively pushing a sustainability agenda.

Hussein is the co-founder and CEO of Frontier Events, the company behind the Sustainability Show where lifestyle, food, travel and finance brands with a perspective on sustainability come together to promote an alternative and more ethical way of living. And one that is accessible to people at all income levels.

It's not how the company started. Like many in their early stages, the company's gone through a couple of pivots before finding its sweet spot as an events-driven hub for the many stakeholders involved in building a more sustainable future.

This is a really broad conversation. We talk about those pivots...

about the Middle East's not straightforward ESG story...

about the ethical roots of Islamic finance and investing...

about the regional drives for sustainability in the North of England...

about how and if consumption can ever be sustainable...

about running an events business during lockdown...

.... and obviously about the show itself which is Frontier's main offering today, with a roster of speakers including previous Karmic Capitalist guest Jarvis Smith.

Hussein is a very eloquent and grounded advocate for sustainability. This was a really enjoyable conversation.

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Only CEOs / MDs apply - strictly peer-level conversation.

Transcript

00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,003 
Iyas: Welcome to the Karmic Capitalist podcast.

00:00:03,003 --> 00:00:12,012 
Iyas: Stories of companies that are doing capitalism better from the cutthroat, buy low, sell high environment of the now dysfunctional brothers.

00:00:12,012 --> 00:00:16,016 
Iyas: Putting on a show of some of the most ethical and long term thinking brands.

00:00:16,016 --> 00:00:18,018 
Iyas: That's the journey which my guest Hussein Alawi has been on.

00:00:19,019 --> 00:00:30,030 
Iyas: He is the co founder and CEO of Frontier Events, the company behind the sustainability show, where lifestyle, food, travel and finance brands with a perspective on sustainability come together to promote on an alternative and more ethical way of living.

00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:38,038 
Iyas: We talk about the shows as well as the business pivots of Frontier as it builds a sweet spot as an events driven hub of the many stakeholders in building a more sustainable future.

00:00:38,038 --> 00:00:40,040 
Iyas: Enjoy the conversation.

00:00:43,043 --> 00:00:48,048 
Iyas: Hello and welcome to this episode of the Karmic Capitalist Podcast.

00:00:48,048 --> 00:00:54,054 
Iyas: It's my pleasure today to have Hussein Alawi with me, who is the founder and CEO of Frontier Events.

00:00:54,054 --> 00:00:55,055 
Iyas: Welcome, Hussein.

00:00:55,055 --> 00:00:55,055 
Hussein Allawi: Good morning.

00:00:55,055 --> 00:00:57,057 
Hussein Allawi: Yes, how are you?

00:00:57,057 --> 00:00:58,058 
Iyas: Very well, thank you.

00:00:58,058 --> 00:00:59,059 
Iyas: Lovely to see you.

00:00:59,059 --> 00:01:05,065 
Iyas: Hussein, before we kick off, just by way of setting the scene in context, what is Frontier Events?

00:01:05,065 --> 00:01:05,065 
Iyas: What does it do?

00:01:05,065 --> 00:01:20,080 
Hussein Allawi: So Frontier Events is obviously, as the name suggests, an events company focused on exhibitions, conferences and other kind of meetings formats, but purely dedicated to sustainability, ESG and impact.

00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,084 
Iyas: And is that why the choice of name Frontier?

00:01:24,084 --> 00:01:25,085 
Hussein Allawi: Yes and no.

00:01:25,085 --> 00:01:31,091 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, the word Frontier derived from the business's history working in Frontier and emerging markets.

00:01:32,092 --> 00:01:44,104 
Hussein Allawi: That's how the company initially began life, but we stuck with the name simply because we wanted to kind of convey a sense of doing events and exhibitions that were at the kind of forefront of new trends and innovations.

00:01:44,104 --> 00:01:47,107 
Hussein Allawi: So it kind of remained suitable in that context as well.

00:01:48,108 --> 00:01:51,111 
Iyas: Yeah, no, I do like the word Frontier a lot, actually.

00:01:51,111 --> 00:01:53,113 
Iyas: There's a lot of very positive connotations with it.

00:01:54,114 --> 00:01:59,119 
Iyas: You mentioned sustainability and we're going to come on to the sustainability show a little bit later on in the discussion.

00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:11,131 
Iyas: But one of the things that screams loud and center when you look at the website and the LinkedIn profile of the company is the talk about the alignment with the SDGs, with the Sustainable Development Goals.

00:02:11,131 --> 00:02:14,134 
Iyas: How does that actually work in practice for the company?

00:02:14,134 --> 00:02:15,135 
Iyas: What does that look like?

00:02:15,135 --> 00:02:16,136 
Iyas: How does that turn up in Frontier?

00:02:16,136 --> 00:02:21,141 
Hussein Allawi: So the business firstly seeks to put on events that generate a positive impact.

00:02:22,142 --> 00:02:23,143 
Hussein Allawi: So what does that mean?

00:02:23,143 --> 00:02:26,146 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, the exhibitions industry in the UK.

00:02:26,146 --> 00:02:41,161 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, estimates range, but it's worth several billion to the economy and it's almost a kind of unnoted situation whereby actually this sector generates a tremendous amount of commercial opportunities for the industries it serves.

00:02:41,161 --> 00:02:50,170 
Hussein Allawi: But also it helps bring people together and it really kind of advances new investments, innovations, technologies and so on.

00:02:50,170 --> 00:02:57,177 
Hussein Allawi: So the sector, by its very nature actually has a very impactful existence and a very purposeful existence.

00:02:57,177 --> 00:03:04,184 
Hussein Allawi: And what we're seeking to do is to kind of harness the power of exhibitions and overlay that with a kind of sustainable framework.

00:03:05,185 --> 00:03:10,190 
Hussein Allawi: So in the events that we're choosing to put on, we want to accelerate certain themes.

00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:30,210 
Hussein Allawi: So for example, the transition to sustainable food, or supporting emerging markets to divest from fossil fuels and generate alternative forms of energy generation, or supporting citizens of the UK, citizens of Western Europe and the United States and so on to be more sustainable in their everyday life.

00:03:31,211 --> 00:03:41,221 
Hussein Allawi: And lastly, to kind of help investors and responsible, ESG, impact driven investors to meet sustainable companies and sustainable enterprises.

00:03:41,221 --> 00:03:54,234 
Hussein Allawi: So the business is using, in summary, the power of those events and overlaying that with a sustainability, ESG and impact framework to help drive real kind of business and sustainability outcomes at the same time.

00:03:54,234 --> 00:04:02,242 
Iyas: And I think that's interesting and I'll love to dive into that a little bit later on in terms of the power of bringing together those various stakeholders.

00:04:02,242 --> 00:04:06,246 
Iyas: I think that's an interesting perspective on what the business is trying to do.

00:04:06,246 --> 00:04:11,251 
Iyas: But before going there, I'm always intrigued in the backstory of how people get to be doing what they're doing.

00:04:11,251 --> 00:04:13,253 
Iyas: What was it for you, Hussein?

00:04:13,253 --> 00:04:15,255 
Iyas: How did you come to be doing this?

00:04:15,255 --> 00:04:21,261 
Hussein Allawi: Like many people who start businesses, I suspect it wasn't a planned situation.

00:04:21,261 --> 00:04:27,267 
Hussein Allawi: There wasn't a kind of decision to become an entrepreneur or to start a business or anything like that.

00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:30,270 
Hussein Allawi: It just kind of arose naturally.

00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:34,274 
Hussein Allawi: So the start of my career I worked right at the other end of the spectrum.

00:04:34,274 --> 00:04:39,279 
Hussein Allawi: So I worked in finance, I worked for Lehman Brothers in the income sales team.

00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:47,287 
Hussein Allawi: So I was right at the forefront of corporate debt for the financial crisis.

00:04:47,287 --> 00:04:52,292 
Hussein Allawi: And I left the bank two years, two months, sorry, before it went under.

00:04:52,292 --> 00:05:01,301 
Hussein Allawi: But by then I had already kind of realized that actually I didn't want to work in that sector, which was very much the history of lots of people who left the bank at that time anyway.

00:05:01,301 --> 00:05:03,303 
Hussein Allawi: So I did something altogether different.

00:05:03,303 --> 00:05:08,308 
Hussein Allawi: I went and worked in risk management, so physical risk management.

00:05:08,308 --> 00:05:16,316 
Hussein Allawi: And I worked I've always been from a Middle Eastern background, I was always interested in working in kind of the emerging frontier market.

00:05:16,316 --> 00:05:25,325 
Hussein Allawi: So I was kind of given a career where I could go and advise investors, multinational companies, on working in Africa and the Middle East.

00:05:25,325 --> 00:05:28,328 
Hussein Allawi: So that was the kind of second stage of my career.

00:05:29,329 --> 00:05:39,339 
Hussein Allawi: And through that I started going to conferences, oil and gas conferences, renewable energy, mining and so on, to try and drum up interest in what the business was doing.

00:05:39,339 --> 00:05:46,346 
Hussein Allawi: And I saw an opportunity to actually start putting on conferences with a kind of investment framework to them.

00:05:46,346 --> 00:06:01,361 
Hussein Allawi: So the business model at the time, this was in 2012, was to work with governments and ministries in the emerging and frontier markets and to use conferences as a mechanism to raise awareness of their investment opportunities.

00:06:01,361 --> 00:06:18,378 
Hussein Allawi: So we started doing that with a number of different countries nigeria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, and so on, basically supporting them to come to financial centers, come to investment centers and promote those investment opportunities.

00:06:18,378 --> 00:06:35,395 
Hussein Allawi: So through that we kind of got a real focus into the sustainable Development goals and what that means and we had projects with the likes of the World Bank and that's where the kind of interest in ESG and impact arose and then that's where the transition came to.

00:06:35,395 --> 00:06:52,412 
Hussein Allawi: Well actually what's happening on a kind of ESG sustainability impact focus in western markets and that's where the idea kind of organically naturally arose to start focusing on those sectors so we then started doing conferences on impact investing through a brand we have called the Good Capital Conference.

00:06:52,412 --> 00:07:01,421 
Hussein Allawi: We ran an event on ESG called ESG for investment, which was all about helping companies to market their sustainability credentials.

00:07:01,421 --> 00:07:07,427 
Hussein Allawi: And then finally we came to the idea of, well, actually, people generally are interested in living a sustainable life.

00:07:07,427 --> 00:07:14,434 
Hussein Allawi: So what can we do to help those people again through the format of an event to kind of be more sustainable?

00:07:14,434 --> 00:07:16,436 
Hussein Allawi: And that was in 2018.

00:07:16,436 --> 00:07:25,445 
Hussein Allawi: So that's when we kind of put pen to paper and wrote the business plan for the sustainability show and then everything went belly up.

00:07:25,445 --> 00:07:29,449 
Hussein Allawi: As you know, during COVID the sector was hammered.

00:07:29,449 --> 00:07:31,451 
Hussein Allawi: One of the hardest hits, I would say.

00:07:31,451 --> 00:07:46,466 
Hussein Allawi: So that became a kind of online situation but at that point we just said, well, actually this is a good time to kind of revise and refine and at least we're out of the woods now, touch woods and we're developing those events.

00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:49,469 
Hussein Allawi: So that's a kind of summary of where we've got to, basically.

00:07:49,469 --> 00:07:57,477 
Iyas: And so it wasn't one of those from the age of twelve you were going to be an entrepreneur and run your own business and looking for the opportunity to arrive.

00:07:58,478 --> 00:08:03,483 
Iyas: It literally was just an evolution of effectively where you were and what you were doing.

00:08:04,484 --> 00:08:04,484 
Hussein Allawi: Yeah, I think so.

00:08:04,484 --> 00:08:12,492 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, I think I've yet to kind of discover someone who's kind of had that sort of light bulb moment effectively.

00:08:12,492 --> 00:08:24,504 
Hussein Allawi: And I think the narrative in business is always that people who start companies are like that, or they're kind of Mark Zuckerberg types that have this shining light and deep pockets, and it's really straightforward for them.

00:08:24,504 --> 00:08:29,509 
Hussein Allawi: But that's not been my history and certainly not the ones of people I other people I know that have started.

00:08:29,509 --> 00:08:37,517 
Iyas: Companies as well, and that drift, if I may use the word, into sort of the ESG and sustainability sector.

00:08:37,517 --> 00:08:41,521 
Iyas: Was that something that was on your mind when you left the Lehman's Brothers?

00:08:41,521 --> 00:08:45,525 
Iyas: You said you left the sector because you felt a little bit unhappy working in there.

00:08:45,525 --> 00:08:49,529 
Iyas: What kind of things were going through your mind in terms of why you were unhappy with that sector?

00:08:49,529 --> 00:08:52,532 
Iyas: And choosing to do something different.

00:08:52,532 --> 00:09:00,540 
Hussein Allawi: Well, I think Lehman kind of obviously epitomized the very nature of corporate cutthroat capitalism, I think in many ways.

00:09:00,540 --> 00:09:07,547 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, it is buy and sell in its most aggressive but business like manner.

00:09:07,547 --> 00:09:16,556 
Hussein Allawi: And I don't think other kind of investment banks, there's been a lot of change in the sector, but I think they really kind of epitomized the sort of cold hard fate of that.

00:09:16,556 --> 00:09:30,570 
Hussein Allawi: On the other hand, it was an amazing place to learn and I put all my kind of the professional skills I've learned even basic things like managing a spreadsheet or writing a good email, things like this, down to my experience there.

00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:41,581 
Hussein Allawi: But I just think that when I was working there, I was at the start of my career, it wasn't fulfilling to kind of feel that this was really what you should be doing with your life.

00:09:41,581 --> 00:09:51,591 
Hussein Allawi: And obviously everybody that was there was purely motivated through monetary gain, but it was very lacking in terms of what the purpose of that was.

00:09:51,591 --> 00:09:59,599 
Hussein Allawi: And I know purpose is quite a kind of heavily used words, but it really did just kind of epitomize why so many people felt lost, I think, by the end of their time there.

00:09:59,599 --> 00:10:20,620 
Iyas: I'm intrigued to watch how much the sector's headline move into ESG is actually deep rooted in some way rather than just playing to a current theme, but intrigued you also you mentioned you go to the frontier markets such as in Africa and the Middle East.

00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:37,637 
Iyas: And it's interesting because you look at the Middle East, for instance, and as a fellow Middle Easterner myself, it's not a region that's renowned for its genuine embracing of sustainability culture, especially when you go to the Gulf and all of the cynicism that there is around at the moment.

00:10:37,637 --> 00:10:50,650 
Iyas: For instance, in terms of cop going to the United Arab Emirates, what's your experience been of the Middle East approach to and depth of genuine feeling in terms of looking at sustainability?

00:10:50,650 --> 00:11:04,664 
Hussein Allawi: Well, I think the Middle East fits within other emerging markets in the sense that they feel it's their right to kind of industrialize and develop and they're not comfortable with the idea that that should be restricted simply because they haven't reached there yet.

00:11:04,664 --> 00:11:06,666 
Hussein Allawi: And I think it's fair enough for them to think that.

00:11:06,666 --> 00:11:18,678 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, we know that a huge chunk of a big part of the reason we're in this situation with the environment and climate change is down to the actions of western nations over many years.

00:11:18,678 --> 00:11:24,684 
Hussein Allawi: So I think that resonates with them and they think, well, why are we being deprived of that right effectively?

00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:31,691 
Hussein Allawi: But on the other hand, they are certainly willing to embrace new technologies, environmental technologies.

00:11:31,691 --> 00:11:35,695 
Hussein Allawi: They need the finance, they need the investment to be able to do that.

00:11:35,695 --> 00:11:41,701 
Hussein Allawi: As long as there's a kind of national commercial reason for them to doing so, why wouldn't they?

00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:54,714 
Hussein Allawi: But the reality is countries in the Gulf, for example, the big oil producing nations were all producing nations because there was major demand for their commodity from other parts of the world and so they've developed on the back of that.

00:11:54,714 --> 00:12:01,721 
Hussein Allawi: And other countries within the region have seen the success of the Gulf, for example, and want to emulate that in some ways.

00:12:01,721 --> 00:12:12,732 
Hussein Allawi: So I think sustainability from that perspective is always going to be less of a consideration than it is for people that live in Western Europe, for example, or North America.

00:12:12,732 --> 00:12:22,742 
Iyas: Yeah, and it's interesting actually, when you look at the early days of oil exploration, that in fact the vast majority of the riches of it were very much went to the west.

00:12:23,743 --> 00:12:33,753 
Iyas: The companies that went and set up to do the extraction and the way that the profit was distributed was very much loaded against the countries where the oil was.

00:12:33,753 --> 00:12:43,763 
Iyas: So it is kind of ironic that we're now sitting in a place where everyone is demanding that they change, although clearly from a global perspective, we do need that change.

00:12:43,763 --> 00:12:59,779 
Iyas: But I think there isn't that lack of understanding that actually we kind of got there over there even that happened primarily because of a quite strong Western demand and exploitation of the resources over there. Absolutely.

00:13:00,780 --> 00:13:15,795 
Hussein Allawi: Where I would say also where it becomes interesting is where these kind of themes border with very long established themes, for example, around Islamic finance and the kind of whole idea of what a business should do and what it means.

00:13:15,795 --> 00:13:26,806 
Hussein Allawi: And I think in these sorts of countries you do have a legacy of investing with an ethical aspect of it, investing with a conscious aspect to it.

00:13:26,806 --> 00:13:37,817 
Hussein Allawi: So in that sense, from a kind of sustainability, business purpose angle, the Middle East has really quite led the charge in that way for many, many years.

00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:53,833 
Hussein Allawi: And actually many of the kind of thoughts of ethical investing and how where ESG came from, especially for example, through the church, and how the church's role, for example, in England as an investor became come from the same place as it does in the Middle East.

00:13:54,834 --> 00:13:57,837 
Hussein Allawi: So there is a parallel in that sense too, though, I would say.

00:13:57,837 --> 00:14:05,845 
Iyas: Yeah. And what role do you see Frontier, the company, your company, playing within the Middle East in terms of facilitating

00:14:05,845 --> 00:14:07,847 
Iyas: that? How has that

00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:07,847 
Iyas: looked?

00:14:08,848 --> 00:14:29,869 
Hussein Allawi: So we did follow a business model of working with countries and governments there for many years, but I think that the reality is putting on a show that is backed by a ministry is problematic as well, because you have to nurture relationships with ministries and political officials and these people change.

00:14:29,869 --> 00:14:39,879 
Hussein Allawi: And what we wanted to do is to really kind of develop something with continuity that could generate impact consecutively over many years.

00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:55,895 
Hussein Allawi: So for that reason we always thought, well, actually, what can we do in a kind of UK context, in a Western European context that can do that, but maybe later on, at some point, we would explore some ideas of doing some events there.

00:14:55,895 --> 00:14:56,896 
Hussein Allawi: Again, at some point.

00:14:57,897 --> 00:15:12,912 
Iyas: And that actually quite nicely brings me around to where your current focus is, because clearly you've got the sustainability show coming up in Manchester and then following on from that in London, so very much back into the UK market.

00:15:12,912 --> 00:15:23,923 
Iyas: How has that shift come about in terms of the focus and what does that look like in terms of moving the business to be more UK centric?

00:15:23,923 --> 00:15:33,933 
Hussein Allawi: The idea for the sustainability show came from just seeing that there are so many more people that aspire to live to be more sustainable, basically.

00:15:33,933 --> 00:15:45,945 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, you'd be hard pressed to find anybody to say, I'm not concerned about climate change or I'm not concerned about rising sea levels or emissions or whatever it is, but does it keep people up at night?

00:15:45,945 --> 00:15:49,949 
Hussein Allawi: Some people, a section of society maybe, but probably not.

00:15:49,949 --> 00:15:58,958 
Hussein Allawi: Other people have other things at the front and center of their mind cost of living, being able to provide for their families and so on.

00:15:58,958 --> 00:15:59,959 
Hussein Allawi: Understandably so.

00:15:59,959 --> 00:16:05,965 
Hussein Allawi: But the reality is this is a major issue and it's not going to go anywhere unless we actively deal with it.

00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:15,975 
Hussein Allawi: And I think that people are naturally frustrated when they see what's been happening in Cot, what's been happening with governments, and they want to do something about it.

00:16:15,975 --> 00:16:18,978 
Hussein Allawi: So you have various iterations of how that's represented.

00:16:18,978 --> 00:16:29,989 
Hussein Allawi: On one side of the spectrum, you've got extinction, rebellion and naturally important movements like Just Stop oil that actually try to achieve change through kind of radical activism.

00:16:29,989 --> 00:16:33,993 
Hussein Allawi: And we need that because we need people to take a good look at what's going on.

00:16:33,993 --> 00:16:35,995 
Hussein Allawi: And that's really important.

00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:46,1006 
Hussein Allawi: At the other end of the spectrum, you've got the climate deniers and the Trump types and so on, but in the middle there's a big section of society that would actually want to live more sustainably.

00:16:46,1006 --> 00:16:57,1017 
Hussein Allawi: But maybe they don't know how, or they think it's too expensive, or they don't think it's right for them, or just a whole range of reasons why they might think, this isn't for me.

00:16:57,1017 --> 00:17:02,1022 
Hussein Allawi: But fundamentally, at the same time, they do want to actually be able to do something about that.

00:17:02,1022 --> 00:17:11,1031 
Hussein Allawi: So that's really what the show is aspiring to achieve, which is to kind of help people on a very basic and fundamental level to be more sustainable.

00:17:11,1031 --> 00:17:23,1043 
Hussein Allawi: And that's represented through the exhibition, through the brands that are exhibiting there, the products that are there, but also kind of the content that's on offer and the different kind of features that are available at the show.

00:17:23,1043 --> 00:17:36,1056 
Hussein Allawi: And of course, we've seen alongside that just the huge explosion in the number of sustainable brands, the kind of movement for B Corpse and 1% for the Planet members and so on.

00:17:36,1056 --> 00:17:44,1064 
Hussein Allawi: So the show is aspiring to bring this whole community together, basically, and Manchester is the kind of northern version of that.

00:17:44,1064 --> 00:17:54,1074 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, there's some amazing initiatives that are happening at the moment in Greater Manchester, arguably in many ways much more ambitious than what's happening in London.

00:17:55,1075 --> 00:18:03,1083 
Hussein Allawi: And the mayor there, Andy Burnham's, done a lot and is continuing to kind of invest in trying to make the city more sustainable.

00:18:03,1083 --> 00:18:14,1094 
Hussein Allawi: But also you've got initiatives in Liverpool and in Leeds, so there's a real focus in the Northwest on trying to make, you know, a truly kind of sustainable green economy.

00:18:14,1094 --> 00:18:17,1097 
Iyas: So so let me go to the show itself.

00:18:17,1097 --> 00:18:19,1099 
Iyas: So who who is it targeted at?

00:18:19,1099 --> 00:18:21,1101 
Iyas: Is it a consumer show?

00:18:21,1101 --> 00:18:22,1102 
Iyas: Is it a trade show?

00:18:22,1102 --> 00:18:23,1103 
Iyas: What exactly is the show?

00:18:24,1104 --> 00:18:28,1108 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, the word consumer, it's a B to C consumer show.

00:18:29,1109 --> 00:18:35,1115 
Hussein Allawi: And so it's helping people, first and foremost, citizens of the UK to be more sustainable.

00:18:35,1115 --> 00:18:43,1123 
Hussein Allawi: And we use the word citizens as much as possible because as you said, the elephant in the room is about consumption.

00:18:43,1123 --> 00:18:47,1127 
Hussein Allawi: We can't consume our way out of the environmental crisis.

00:18:47,1127 --> 00:18:54,1134 
Hussein Allawi: What we can do is shift how we consume and who we buy from and the degree to which we buy.

00:18:54,1134 --> 00:19:11,1151 
Hussein Allawi: And champion other things like recycling, obviously, but repurposing things upcycling your clothes, your furniture, your toys for your kids or whatever it is, and just small fixes like if you're a homeowner, make your home less leaky.

00:19:11,1151 --> 00:19:18,1158 
Hussein Allawi: That has a huge impact on emissions for households in the UK that not everybody knows about.

00:19:20,1160 --> 00:19:28,1168 
Hussein Allawi: So the show is really trying to kind of celebrate these new alternative and in some ways kind of radical shifts in consumption.

00:19:29,1169 --> 00:19:36,1176 
Hussein Allawi: It is championing alternative forms of sustainable buying and sustainable behavior, basically.

00:19:37,1177 --> 00:19:52,1192 
Iyas: So the audience, the people coming to the show are primarily the targets to get citizens in generally, who can just be educated, look at options both in terms of how they do things, but also who they do those things with.

00:19:52,1192 --> 00:19:59,1199 
Iyas: Is it very much aimed at Joe and Jane public, if I may, in terms of who goes to the show?

00:19:59,1199 --> 00:20:00,1200 
Iyas: Is that the target?

00:20:00,1200 --> 00:20:01,1201 
Hussein Allawi: Yes, very much.

00:20:01,1201 --> 00:20:09,1209 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, what we've done actually is say it's free to attend, which is quite unheard of in B to C as a kind of format.

00:20:09,1209 --> 00:20:16,1216 
Hussein Allawi: But we were deliberate about that because we said, well, actually, why should it be just people who can afford to be sustainable?

00:20:16,1216 --> 00:20:26,1226 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, that's a perception of the sector which is, yes, to produce a product with higher ethical or environmental credentials generally costs more, so you have to be able to have the means to pay for it.

00:20:26,1226 --> 00:20:30,1230 
Hussein Allawi: But on the other hand, average people can be more sustainable.

00:20:30,1230 --> 00:20:32,1232 
Hussein Allawi: And there are really close parallels at the moment with the cost of living.

00:20:32,1232 --> 00:20:38,1238 
Hussein Allawi: So energy companies and what people are doing to reduce their energy, that's being sustainable.

00:20:38,1238 --> 00:20:42,1242 
Hussein Allawi: Having more of a plant based diet, that's being more sustainable.

00:20:43,1243 --> 00:20:48,1248 
Hussein Allawi: The way you move around cities, obviously these are themes that resonate with average people.

00:20:48,1248 --> 00:21:07,1267 
Hussein Allawi: So yeah, we want everybody to feel like they have a place at the show, whether that's families, older people with pensions that they want to change, how they invest, young professionals right through to kind of younger people that are naturally extremely worried about the situation and what it's going to mean for their generation.

00:21:07,1267 --> 00:21:13,1273 
Iyas: And in terms of the exhibitors, how have they got engaged?

00:21:13,1273 --> 00:21:16,1276 
Iyas: What does it look like for them to get engaged?

00:21:17,1277 --> 00:21:23,1283 
Iyas: Presumably Frontier Events is a company, so it needs to make its revenue.

00:21:23,1283 --> 00:21:29,1289 
Iyas: So presumably the show is pay to display or pay to have a pay to exhibit.

00:21:29,1289 --> 00:21:33,1293 
Iyas: That's the word I was looking for and use a really sophisticated one that I was missing there.

00:21:35,1295 --> 00:21:36,1296 
Iyas: Is that its business model?

00:21:36,1296 --> 00:21:37,1297 
Hussein Allawi: It is.

00:21:37,1297 --> 00:21:45,1305 
Hussein Allawi: So it's basically you buy space at the show, sustainable brands buy space at the show and they use that for selling their products.

00:21:45,1305 --> 00:21:50,1310 
Hussein Allawi: But also we've got some other bigger companies that are there in terms of activation.

00:21:51,1311 --> 00:21:59,1319 
Hussein Allawi: They want to kind of create a real kind of message on the show floor that resonates with people and that's demonstrated through sponsorship.

00:21:59,1319 --> 00:22:06,1326 
Hussein Allawi: So we've got speaking opportunities on the main stage, we've got competitions, prizes and so on, basically.

00:22:06,1326 --> 00:22:13,1333 
Hussein Allawi: But that's the kind of commercial profile of the show, which is exhibition stands and sponsorships.

00:22:14,1334 --> 00:22:28,1348 
Iyas: And how have you tried to navigate the potentially choppy waters of whether someone who wants to exhibit is aligned with ESG or the SDG goals or whatever?

00:22:28,1348 --> 00:22:31,1351 
Iyas: Is there a criteria that you've used in order to do that?

00:22:31,1351 --> 00:22:31,1351 
Hussein Allawi: There is.

00:22:31,1351 --> 00:22:35,1355 
Hussein Allawi: And that's the question we get asked a lot, understandably?

00:22:35,1355 --> 00:22:40,1360 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, we have put together quite a comprehensive criteria that we give to our sales team.

00:22:40,1360 --> 00:22:46,1366 
Hussein Allawi: And it is questions like do these groups have certain accreditations like B Corp or 1% for the Planet?

00:22:47,1367 --> 00:22:48,1368 
Hussein Allawi: Or are they social enterprises?

00:22:48,1368 --> 00:22:50,1370 
Hussein Allawi: Are they cooperatives?

00:22:50,1370 --> 00:22:50,1370 
Hussein Allawi: As you can see?

00:22:51,1371 --> 00:22:56,1376 
Hussein Allawi: Do they have any kind of aspect of their revenue that's derived from extractives or fossil fuels and so on.

00:22:56,1376 --> 00:22:59,1379 
Hussein Allawi: So yes, there is a checklist that we follow.

00:22:59,1379 --> 00:23:07,1387 
Hussein Allawi: The show itself has quite rigorous sustainability policies in terms of basic things, obviously like single use plastic and so on.

00:23:07,1387 --> 00:23:13,1393 
Hussein Allawi: But we are tracking all the carbon that the show produces and offsetting it to the greatest degree possible.

00:23:14,1394 --> 00:23:32,1412 
Hussein Allawi: But I mean, fundamentally it's also a brand that wants to exhibit at the sustainability show is not going to exhibit there unless they feel like they have superior environmental credentials because they know that people are going to question them on the kind of manner in which their products and services are produced.

00:23:32,1412 --> 00:23:45,1425 
Hussein Allawi: So companies go to the show because they have something that they want to shout about, they have something that they want to communicate to people about that and they kind of feel like they've reached that higher level of environmental sophistication.

00:23:45,1425 --> 00:23:52,1432 
Hussein Allawi: So in some ways the show kind of acts as a natural filter of that anyway, just through its name.

00:23:52,1432 --> 00:24:01,1441 
Hussein Allawi: But yes, we have at the same time as that, we are trying wherever possible to kind of filter ourselves, who are the right sorts of brands that join the show.

00:24:01,1441 --> 00:24:06,1446 
Hussein Allawi: And we anticipate this becoming a bigger responsibility for us as the event grows too.

00:24:06,1446 --> 00:24:16,1456 
Iyas: Yeah, no, I would imagine so because in as much as an exhibitor would be potentially visible and at risk if they didn't have those creds.

00:24:16,1456 --> 00:24:25,1465 
Iyas: The brand of the show as a whole clearly also depends on the exhibitors and speakers there to also be very much aligned.

00:24:25,1465 --> 00:24:31,1471 
Iyas: I noticed, by the way, you have another Karma capitalist alumni speaking there and in the shape of Jarvis Smith.

00:24:31,1471 --> 00:24:34,1474 
Iyas: Yes, which should be a great talk.

00:24:34,1474 --> 00:24:36,1476 
Iyas: He's a very entertaining man.

00:24:36,1476 --> 00:24:39,1479 
Hussein Allawi: Yeah, he's quite an inspiration.

00:24:39,1479 --> 00:24:43,1483 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, Jarvis is on the advisory committee for the show.

00:24:43,1483 --> 00:24:47,1487 
Hussein Allawi: He's been so helpful in kind of directing us, basically.

00:24:47,1487 --> 00:24:50,1490 
Hussein Allawi: But I mean, Jarvis has been looking at the sector for many, many years.

00:24:50,1490 --> 00:24:57,1497 
Hussein Allawi: But he has he knows as well as I do that it's about progress, not perfection.

00:24:57,1497 --> 00:25:03,1503 
Hussein Allawi: And I think that's a mantra we try and say wherever possible because we want to be honest with people.

00:25:03,1503 --> 00:25:16,1516 
Hussein Allawi: We can't say the sustainability show is the one place where you will only find completely vetted sustainable brands because that's such a tall thing for anyone to be able to say that they delivered.

00:25:16,1516 --> 00:25:29,1529 
Hussein Allawi: Basically what we can do is introduce people to options and do what we can to kind of make sure that those options are more sustainable and hopefully that helps them in making a better choice.

00:25:29,1529 --> 00:25:35,1535 
Hussein Allawi: And so that's kind of what we've pinned to our flagmast, so to speak.

00:25:35,1535 --> 00:25:40,1540 
Iyas: Yeah. And I'm going to ask you a potentially risky question by wave selection

00:25:40,1540 --> 00:25:43,1543 
Iyas: here. What kinds of companies are coming to the

00:25:43,1543 --> 00:25:44,1544 
Iyas: show?

00:25:44,1544 --> 00:25:47,1547 
Hussein Allawi: So by and large, it's sustainable brands.

00:25:47,1547 --> 00:25:55,1555 
Hussein Allawi: So it's companies that have been through some kind of B Corp or 1% for the Planet or other kind of environmental focus.

00:25:55,1555 --> 00:25:59,1559 
Hussein Allawi: But sustainability is front and center what these brands are all about.

00:25:59,1559 --> 00:26:09,1569 
Hussein Allawi: They've been incorporated, they've been established to represent an eco sustainable impact, whatever you want to call it, alternative to the regular household item.

00:26:09,1569 --> 00:26:17,1577 
Hussein Allawi: So it's about sustainable living and it's about brands that are helping people to do that in kind of various sections of their life, basically.

00:26:17,1577 --> 00:26:21,1581 
Iyas: So is it across food, household transport?

00:26:21,1581 --> 00:26:29,1589 
Iyas: I mean, is it a very broad cross section or is it any more specific than that in terms of companies that are actually going to be there?

00:26:29,1589 --> 00:26:34,1594 
Hussein Allawi: It's mainly lifestyle, so it's food and drink, it's home and garden.

00:26:35,1595 --> 00:26:36,1596 
Hussein Allawi: Yes, it's fashion as well.

00:26:37,1597 --> 00:26:41,1601 
Hussein Allawi: And then some other kind of fringe ones like money, for example.

00:26:41,1601 --> 00:26:44,1604 
Hussein Allawi: Starling bank is a sponsor of the show this year.

00:26:44,1604 --> 00:26:53,1613 
Hussein Allawi: Travel is also like sustainable travel is a massive growth area now, so that's a big aspect of the show too.

00:26:53,1613 --> 00:27:12,1632 
Hussein Allawi: So it's any brand, product or service that is consumer focused, that wants to help a person be more sustainable, then the show is a good place for them to be exhibiting at because it also adds to their marketing campaign, their advertising campaign.

00:27:12,1632 --> 00:27:21,1641 
Hussein Allawi: These brands are pouring millions into social media and Instagram and people are just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and the conversion rates are so low.

00:27:21,1641 --> 00:27:29,1649 
Hussein Allawi: So the show is also helping those brands to target people and speak to them directly and hopefully that's beneficial for.

00:27:29,1649 --> 00:27:37,1657 
Iyas: Them absolutely and large as well as small or is their focus on indie brands, if you will, what's that mix look like.

00:27:37,1657 --> 00:27:54,1674 
Hussein Allawi: So the show has by and large it's mainly smaller sustainable brands that's a big section of the show because being sustainable is also about supporting those smaller brands, it's also about shopping locally and shopping with the conscious and being positive in your choices and so on.

00:27:54,1674 --> 00:28:06,1686 
Hussein Allawi: So like a big chunk of the exhibition is from smaller indie brands, as you said, that are sustainable alongside some larger businesses that are really tackling this issue head on.

00:28:06,1686 --> 00:28:15,1695 
Hussein Allawi: So they want to tell people about how sustainable they are becoming and the journey that they're on and they hope that that resonates with people.

00:28:15,1695 --> 00:28:22,1702 
Hussein Allawi: And then in the middle you've got some larger sustainable brands that are growing really quite successfully.

00:28:23,1703 --> 00:28:25,1705 
Hussein Allawi: So the show is great for them too, basically.

00:28:26,1706 --> 00:28:29,1709 
Hussein Allawi: So there is a range of different company sizes.

00:28:29,1709 --> 00:28:34,1714 
Iyas: Fantastic. And I think it's great to give the indies a

00:28:34,1714 --> 00:28:42,1722 
Iyas: platform. I think it's a tough place to compete in and actually having this kind of a platform is going to be invaluable for the ones who get

00:28:42,1722 --> 00:28:56,1736 
Iyas: involved. Beyond this, there's London as well and I'm intrigued in terms of frontier events itself and your own business trajectory, are you seeing this very much as the direction now to be driven by sustainability

00:28:56,1736 --> 00:28:59,1739 
Iyas: shows? Is that the main string to the bow for the

00:28:59,1739 --> 00:29:00,1740 
Iyas: foreseeable?

00:29:00,1740 --> 00:29:00,1740 
Hussein Allawi: I think so.

00:29:01,1741 --> 00:29:17,1757 
Hussein Allawi: I mean, we've said as a business we want to be a company that's devoted to sustainable events and shows and to try and use those shows, as I mentioned, to create some kind of impact, however small, in what they do.

00:29:17,1757 --> 00:29:20,1760 
Hussein Allawi: So that's the kind of mission of the company, basically.

00:29:20,1760 --> 00:29:23,1763 
Hussein Allawi: So at the moment, that looks like the sustainability show.

00:29:23,1763 --> 00:29:48,1788 
Hussein Allawi: We have another B to B conference and exhibition called Sustainable Foods, which is all about helping, again, sustainable brands to find distribution, to meet with retailers and multinational food companies, also to help those bigger businesses to grapple with the major sustainability issues within the food and drink supply chain, which are just enormous.

00:29:49,1789 --> 00:29:58,1798 
Hussein Allawi: So the conference is trying to help that sector as well to really kind of tackle their environmental problems at the same time.

00:29:58,1798 --> 00:30:06,1806 
Hussein Allawi: So we might come across some other themes that sit within the kind of ESG impact arena that the business can adopt.

00:30:06,1806 --> 00:30:10,1810 
Hussein Allawi: But that's really going to be our primary motivator, basically.

00:30:10,1810 --> 00:30:30,1830 
Iyas: Fascinating and in terms of the company's own evolution, we've had on the karma capitalist, a couple of sort of pretty much startups through to post IPO companies where is frontier events in its own evolution right now and also intrigued as to where you would like to see it go.

00:30:30,1830 --> 00:30:32,1832 
Hussein Allawi: We're still a young business basically.

00:30:33,1833 --> 00:30:36,1836 
Hussein Allawi: Our shows are still in year two basically.

00:30:36,1836 --> 00:30:50,1850 
Hussein Allawi: So in some ways really just kind of starting out with this portfolio but we're just really focused on trying to grow the shows and give value to people that join it.

00:30:50,1850 --> 00:30:54,1854 
Hussein Allawi: Whether it's exhibitors, we want our exhibitors to sell their products at the shows.

00:30:55,1855 --> 00:30:59,1859 
Hussein Allawi: We want them to really have a good experience at the show so that they rebook and come back.

00:30:59,1859 --> 00:31:05,1865 
Hussein Allawi: We want people to come to the shows and feel like it was really a good use of their time to go there.

00:31:05,1865 --> 00:31:15,1875 
Hussein Allawi: And if we can kind of co op this community of people that celebrate this alternative way of living then the show will organically grow by itself.

00:31:15,1875 --> 00:31:18,1878 
Hussein Allawi: I think so that's really our focus for the time being.

00:31:19,1879 --> 00:31:35,1895 
Hussein Allawi: But further on down the line it would be wonderful to have a business that champions all of these various different shows and events and exhibitions with that kind of impact framework in mind because that's just generally, I think, where business as a whole needs to go.

00:31:36,1896 --> 00:31:53,1913 
Hussein Allawi: People are kind of tired of the old sort of way of business and how that's been and people are rightly drawing connections between this kind of growthist narrative and what old school businesses are like and they're challenging that.

00:31:53,1913 --> 00:31:55,1915 
Hussein Allawi: So we want to be part of that as well.

00:31:55,1915 --> 00:32:02,1922 
Iyas: Yeah, no and I think as a forum for bringing people together, different stakeholders, I think it'd be very interesting to see how that grows.

00:32:02,1922 --> 00:32:05,1925 
Iyas: You mentioned you had the B two B food show as well.

00:32:06,1926 --> 00:32:09,1929 
Iyas: So clearly there is a B two B.

00:32:09,1929 --> 00:32:11,1931 
Iyas: Is there an investor perspective here?

00:32:11,1931 --> 00:32:23,1943 
Iyas: I'm thinking also it would be a shame having had the education that you had although you were somewhat dispirited by the time you left it, but you have that background and speak that terminology.

00:32:23,1943 --> 00:32:26,1946 
Iyas: Is there bringing together of investors as well?

00:32:26,1946 --> 00:32:29,1949 
Iyas: Is that an arm of this or is that something that maybe later we.

00:32:29,1949 --> 00:32:36,1956 
Hussein Allawi: Have another brand called Good Capital which is all about partnering responsible investors with impact companies.

00:32:37,1957 --> 00:32:50,1970 
Hussein Allawi: That is something we're also developing but we're just kind of trying to figure out the best format for that actually because investor matchmaking as a practice has changed considerably over the years.

00:32:50,1970 --> 00:33:01,1981 
Hussein Allawi: I mean virtual meetings just like this are basically the norm so we think that there's room for us to develop a product around that too.

00:33:01,1981 --> 00:33:22,2002 
Hussein Allawi: So that is something that we're looking to kind of bring out within the next six months as well, which is all about helping sustainable brands to meet a variety of different types of investors and helping those investors to connect with genuinely sustainable companies, environmental technologies, ethical businesses and so on, basically.

00:33:22,2002 --> 00:33:32,2012 
Hussein Allawi: So generally those smaller brands are just too small to be of any kind of interest to a bigger bank, an investment bank or so on.

00:33:32,2012 --> 00:33:40,2020 
Hussein Allawi: So they need help with funding and investors at the same time need help in meeting companies and sourcing new deals.

00:33:40,2020 --> 00:33:44,2024 
Hussein Allawi: So that is something we're also developing on the side.

00:33:44,2024 --> 00:33:57,2037 
Iyas: Yeah. And it's interesting because you could look at it almost as Frontier Events being a social and community hub that brings together all of those various stakeholders in driving forward NESG

00:33:57,2037 --> 00:34:03,2043 
Iyas: agenda. And that can be sort of quite an exciting place to be right now, as well as clearly an impactful

00:34:03,2043 --> 00:34:07,2047 
Iyas: one. Hussein, just a quick, very practical, low down

00:34:07,2047 --> 00:34:11,2051 
Iyas: question. Are you still taking companies for the Manchester and

00:34:11,2051 --> 00:34:15,2055 
Iyas: London? And if so, how would they go about finding out about the

00:34:15,2055 --> 00:34:16,2056 
Iyas: show?

00:34:16,2056 --> 00:34:17,2057 
Hussein Allawi: Yes, absolutely we are.

00:34:17,2057 --> 00:34:25,2065 
Hussein Allawi: We want to hear from any, any business that wants to that trades with sustainable products and services front and center.

00:34:26,2066 --> 00:34:27,2067 
Hussein Allawi: We've got a floor plan.

00:34:28,2068 --> 00:34:37,2077 
Hussein Allawi: We want to kind of enlarge the floor plan as well and get as many businesses as we can involved with the exhibition so they can just write to the team.

00:34:38,2078 --> 00:34:46,2086 
Hussein Allawi: Our email address is hello at Frontier Events so they can just communicate with us and we'd love to have them on board with the show, basically.

00:34:47,2087 --> 00:34:51,2091 
Iyas: Fantastic. Well, Hussein, thank you so much for making the time to talk to me

00:34:52,2092 --> 00:34:53,2093 
Iyas: today. It's a fascinating

00:34:53,2093 --> 00:35:07,2107 
Iyas: journey. I personally would love to see as and when and if there's a loop back to bringing the Middle East into this, as well as vested interest being one myself, but love where you're taking it right

00:35:07,2107 --> 00:35:11,2111 
Iyas: now. Wish you all the best for the show, which is in July the 8th and 9

00:35:12,2112 --> 00:35:15,2115 
Iyas: July. Wish you all the best for the show and for the trajectory

00:35:15,2115 --> 00:35:15,2115 
Iyas: beyond.

00:35:15,2115 --> 00:35:16,2116 
Hussein Allawi: Thank you very much.

00:35:16,2116 --> 00:35:18,2118 
Hussein Allawi: Yes, it's great to talk to you.

00:35:18,2118 --> 00:35:20,2120 
Hussein Allawi: Yeah, I love what you're doing and love the podcast.

00:35:20,2120 --> 00:35:24,2124 
Hussein Allawi: So we'll hope to see great things happening with the karmic capitalist as well.

00:35:24,2124 --> 00:35:27,2127 
Iyas: Absolutely. Perhaps we should have a karmic capitalist pod at the

00:35:27,2127 --> 00:35:27,2127 
Iyas: show.

00:35:30,2130 --> 00:35:31,2131 
Hussein Allawi: We'll consider it.

00:35:31,2131 --> 00:35:35,2135 
Hussein Allawi: You left that for the last minute, but yeah, we'll consider that.

00:35:37,2137 --> 00:35:37,2137 
Hussein Allawi: Nice one.