Caitlin Marshall and Lizzie Rose: Improve your mental health with a little creativity

On today's episode, trailblazing founders of Makeshift, Caitlin Marshall and Lizzie Rose share how creativity can have a profound impact on your mental well-being. 

From crafting community workshops to pioneering trauma-informed creative programs, Caitlin and Lizzie have learned that creativity can be a crucial element in the toolkit for mental health recovery. They believe that everyone has the capacity to draw on their inner artist for healing and resilience, and in their new book, Creative First Aid, offer 'creativity on prescription' as an essential part of health care.

Caitlin and Lizzie will inspire you to integrate creativity into your daily routines, much like a self-care regimen, to combat the inevitable stressors of life. From the curative power of ocean swims to the revitalising role of live music, this episode is a testament to the joy and stability that creativity infuses into our lives, even in times of chaos. 

If you're ready to foster a resilient mindset and explore how Makeshift's philosophy and resources can enhance your mental wellness journey, dive into the therapeutic revelations shared in this not-to-be-missed conversation.

Transcript

Creativity for Mental Health Recovery

Speaker 1 0:01

You're listening to the Secrets of Successful Business podcast , your go-to source for business tips , tricks and proven strategies that will help you create a streamlined and profitable business . We chat to the best minds in business about their journey . It's my business and I'll do it my way , how they started , rather than going harder to get more focus on growing more with what you have . What they learned along the way . How long are you going to give this ? What compromises are ?

Speaker 3 0:29

you going to make Just because ?

Speaker 4 0:31

you can do it doesn't mean that you should do it .

Speaker 1 0:33

It's really important to remember that it's a long game and , of course , we'll ask them for their secret source for creating a successful business . If you're not feeling you're not doing it right , you should be struggling at times . That is part of the journey . Join us as we take a sneak peek behind the curtain , talk solutions for those business pain points , working smarter , not harder , mindset and the challenges of bidding it all in with the demands of today's busy life style . If you're a business owner , side hustler or just starting your business journey , this podcast is for you . Now here's your host , business coach and content creator , justine McLean from Fawcay Creative .

Speaker 4 1:13

Hello and thanks for joining me on the podcast today . In case we haven't met , I'm Justine , a small business owner on a mission to uncover and share the secrets of creating and running a profitable , sustainable and successful business . I've been in business for over 20 years now and I get to use all that I've learned along the way to help other women in business reduce the overwhelm , gain visibility around their numbers , charge what they're worth and make more money . It's about designing a life you love that fits into your definition of success . So if I can help you create the profitable business you deserve , please reach out Now without further ado . Let's dive into today's episode .

Speaker 4 1:58

Being creative is good for us . It lowers our stress hormones , it calms our nervous system and can get us into a flow state . And while innate creativity is part of being human , many of us have been told from a very young age that we're not good at art , or definitely not creative , so it's something we tend not to pursue . But with mental health challenges on the rise and support systems stretched to the limit , something's got to give , and so I'm happy to welcome today's guests , caitlin Marshall and Lizzie Rose , to share how we can use creativity as first aid to improve our mental health and wellbeing and reduce stress too . Caitlin and Lizzie are the founders of makeshift , an award-winning agency that provides trauma , informed creativity and mental health programs for communities , workplaces and groups throughout Australia . Since 2013 , they've worked with thousands of people , including first responders , communities affected by bushfires and floods , and they've worked with some of Australia's biggest corporate clients as well . So , without further ado , I'd like to welcome Caitlin and Lizzie . Hi , caitlin and Lizzie , welcome to the podcast .

Speaker 2 3:14

Thanks so much for having us , Justine .

Speaker 4 3:17

It's great to have you here today and to talk about one of my favourite subjects , which is creativity , because I think so many of us think that we're not born with a single creative bone in our body , and so is really a breath of fresh air , I think , for people who are looking for different ways or an alternative to help with their mental health and their stress levels . But before I dive into that , can you share a little bit about your business , makeshift , and what inspired you to write Creative First Aid ?

Speaker 2 3:55

Sure so makeshift . We founded the organisation about a decade ago , under a different name actually , and we had a different focus , which was about creating a platform in the community for people to exchange skills , creative skills , skills in DIY and sustainability . And so for years we ran hundreds and hundreds of workshops where community members had the opportunity to teach and other people in the community had a chance to come and learn . And over time we kept hearing from people that this was not only great in learning how to cook from scratch or how to make you know how to sew or how to fix your bike , but also it was having this impact on people's wellbeing and sense of connection to the community , which we know social connection is a really important part of mental wellbeing . And then what happened was that doctors and psychologists and allied health professionals were getting in touch and saying , hey , we're referring people to your classes and we really , given that our background is and training is in social work and Lizzie's in community development , sustainability education we kind of took that really seriously and wanted to push that further and started a pilot program , an eight week program that we designed to work with people mostly with PTSD and who were unable to work and that was called creativity on prescription , which took people through a journey of exploring a different creative practice with a different artist each week , alongside learning about how our nervous system works and how to support your wellbeing .

Speaker 2 5:40

We hear that all the time , you know , we've got to support our wellbeing , we've got to look after our mental health , but actually we're not really taught a lot of practical information about how to do that . So we started that . The pandemic arrived and suddenly being a face to face grassroots workshop organization meant we had to Change pretty quickly and went online , which a lot of people did , and that really opened up the doors to be able to work with people all over the country . And since then we've run hundreds of programs and courses using this approach of what we call creative first aid In different ways , and also lots of work in workplaces as well , which has been really wonderful .

Speaker 4 6:24

Were you surprised at that link between creativity and how it helped mental health ? Because I'm sure when you started your program , or when you started what is now makeshift , you probably didn't go into it with a mission of providing that mental health support .

Speaker 3 6:43

No , it's kind of the opposite . It wasn't a surprise to us . We were cultivating a design and development of our programs with that intention . We just didn't lead with the forefront , we didn't put it out the same . This is a mental health program , but absolutely the undercurrent of the work that we've done in community development from the start has been about bringing together people with a shared interest to then explore these interests to resolve potential problems . So we had a real intentional design and it's when the psychologists and GPs in our community started picking it up and the participants started feeding back to us that it was having an impact on their mental well-being that we really enlarged the work that we do and went there and formed makeshift as it is today .

Speaker 4 7:31

And so what have you discovered as the link , I guess , between mental health , that well-being and creativity ? Like , where did you first see those sort of changes , or those aha moments , or what changes did you start to see that you thought that we know , there's this link , we're now getting approved .

Speaker 2 7:53

Well , we definitely saw it in our work . I mean , I've seen it . I've worked in social work , in mental health and kind of crisis , sexual assault support as a young social worker and I saw it . Then I was using creative practice as a tool in that work and what you witness is that people , creativity or engaging in creative practice gives people a little space to just sit outside of their identity for a moment .

Speaker 2 8:20

You kind of get to try on a different version of yourself . It creates space for curiosity and curiosity leads us to new ways of thinking and often what gets in the way when we're really kind of overwhelmed with anxiety or depression is some really rigid thinking that can kind of trap . So it just is this kind of gateway to . Ultimately , I think that to really work through challenging mental health tricky times requires creative thinking . We have to kind of find new ways through , and so practicing creativity kind of gives us the practice of thinking in a different way . When we do something creative , even if we've never done it before , you've got to , you know , try something new , experiment , take a risk , be prepared to maybe to go a bit wonky , not be sure how it's going to turn out , and so that's an amazing practice . Space for doing that in our lives .

Speaker 4 9:25

Yeah , it's so interesting , isn't it ? Because when I grew up , my mum had some pretty severe mental health issues and I really wasn't aware of them . I wasn't , I mean , obviously I knew that something wasn't right , but at that age and at that time it was not something that was in the picture , certainly not in the news , not talked about , and I couldn't really put my finger on it . And the prescription was always tablets , you know , to take this . At that stage it was never going to see someone unless there was going to be , you know , quite an invasive intervention .

Speaker 4 10:01

I suppose you know that more traditional approach has obviously changed a lot over the years and certainly it's probably not as archaic in 2024 as it was , you know , way back in the sort of late 70s , early 80s . But you know , I just wonder what the benefits are of if someone is listening to this and they're thinking , yeah , look , I really feel like I've got these issues , maybe I have pursued this more traditional route of an approach to help with mental health . How can they transition , I suppose ? Or how can they start to prescribe that creativity for themselves or talk to a professional about having that option as an alternative to that more traditional medicine ?

Speaker 3 10:53

I think it begins with , I guess , agency and the realization that as human beings we're all creative , so we kind of already do have a bunch of built-in tools that we can lean upon .

Speaker 3 11:03

So you know , one of the first steps that we work with our participants in our programs is just the gentle reminder that you know we do have agency over our mental health every day and we can apply a practice of creativity that can gently interact with our nervous system and help us shift our mood . It's not a quick fix and it's not at all everything and it sits alongside , you know , therapy and sometimes medication . But I think the beginning steps , can you know , we lay it out in our book around the methodology of creative first aid , and then the book ends with 50 prescriptions at the end , which are just everyday prescriptions that anybody can do with minimal materials . So there is creativity just waiting to be engaged with or embraced . So it's . I think it begins with just a bit of curiosity and dialing up the curiosity to what is something that I might be able to do for myself and that looks a little different to the , you know , existing medical model of treatment for mental health .

Speaker 4 12:04

Yeah , and I love your prescriptions , by the way , because I was expecting them all to be pick up a paintbrush and whatever . But there's , you know , so many different options how to do a nature walk and so on . And it's interesting that you say that because I think for so many of us , we think we're not creative . I am , I feel like I am quite creative . I'm used to painting really big pictures .

Speaker 4 12:25

But last year was a particularly stressful year for me and I found that when I went to go and be creative , I was completely paralyzed by the idea that I had to try and paint this big thing . It just was adding another stress . So my husband kindly bought me a paint by numbers for Christmas and I just found that sitting there in this mindless activity of looking for a number and finding the color that matched the number was exactly what I needed to get me out of my head . So for anyone listening who would like to , you know , pursue a creative , you know task rather than taking a walk in nature , for example . But they think , oh , I'm not creative , what would you say to people to sort of overcome that barrier to entry that they might be thinking exists ?

Speaker 2 13:13

Yeah , firstly , I would say that it's so common . So many people have that idea about themselves that they're not creative . And we , when we dig into that , we've met thousands of those people . It's often come from some message quite early in life that either from a teacher or a parent or a friend or a sibling , that is so profoundly formative in in kind of developing your idea about whether you're creative or not . And so people if they get that idea early oh you're not good at this , then they kind of close the door on that for

Creativity and Self-Care for Well-Being

Speaker 2 13:48

their life .

Speaker 2 13:48

And the truth is and we kind of try to lay this out in the book with evidence and research is that all humans have innate creativity . We are born with it hardwired into us and in fact there's a lot of ways that we can be creative . It's not just about making art , and so it's kind of like a muscle that can lie dormant . It's there whether we use it or not , and actually for the purpose of supporting our nervous system and our well-being , which is kind of the place that we're talking about how it can be applied for our mental health . We don't actually need to be that good at it for it to be good for us . It's actually like you were saying , the paint by numbers , just the act of , you know , filling out with colour over and over again . It's the sensory process that happens by that action that actually helps to regulate our nervous system . Immediately it starts to interact with our brain chemistry . So that tells us that doing these things is good for us .

Speaker 2 14:49

And if you want to start with the paint by numbers , or you know those colouring in books that exploded a few years ago , you know , I think that was this beautiful moment of people remembering this actually feels good , it relaxes us and you don't have to have any particular skill . And of course it's part of why we have written this book is because creativity is so closed off to so many people , and I think that's a real tragedy . You know we all have a right to express our creativity and humans have used creative expression in every culture around the world , in all recorded human history . So to have so many people just say I can't do that , that's not for me . I'm closing that door . It means we're closing off this whole free , reliable , innate resource that every single person has . So now I say start small , start with the paint by numbers , start with something really , really gentle and easy and not over ambitious , to just start to flex that little muscle .

Speaker 4 15:55

But , as you say , like colouring in I forgot about those colouring in books that were so popular , still around everywhere . So colouring in or writing a story or lots of things , but you have so many prescriptions in your book , so it doesn't need to be that kind of that definition of creativity that we're all thinking about . When I think about the world now , I mean there's just so much going on and you know you don't even really need to look far afield for the stresses . Right , it could be that iPhone in your hand with social media on it . It could be something that's going on in your family or your friendship group or at work , or , you know , a financial stress .

Speaker 4 16:34

There just seems to be so much stress and so much overwhelm that it's almost like , as a community at large , we're all headed to some sort of burnout , but we're just not even seeing the symptoms now . We just accept that this is part of a living in this day and age and we kind of have to just keep soldiering on . And I think this is particularly true of women and business women , who are a lot of our listeners . So what are some of the signs to look out for that ? You know , maybe the stress that we're experiencing we just shouldn't put off to being OK , it's just another day in 2024 . And that maybe we should have that intervention with ourselves to practice that self care and perhaps , you know , jump into a creative activity .

Speaker 3 17:29

I mean , I think that the I think the signs definitely are already well and truly out there that you know as a kind of population at large , people are struggling with burnout and overwhelm and anxiety , with overconsumption and the productivity and rate of life .

Speaker 3 17:45

So some of the really obvious signs are just being in that you know , kind of monkey mind and really busy mind state and on this treadmill of keeping going and trudging on and trudging on until we just keep going and then we just can't anymore .

Speaker 3 17:59

So our prescriptions are designed as really gentle interventions that can be done daily . Some of them only take two to five minutes and self care is something that gets banded around a lot at the moment and it's absolutely is necessary that we prioritize self care and some of the prescriptions are just based around this idea that they are hoped to become habits so that you know , no matter what state you're in of busyness in your life , there's there's probably never going to be the right time to sit down and stop and do creativity . So we really just urge people to just start with it as as though it's like brushing your teeth . It's something that's non-negotiable , that you're doing every day because it's tending to your nervous system and it's tending to your mental health , doesn't matter where you are on the sliding spectrum of well being , something that , as we all have physical health and we all have mental health , so something that we all do need to look after every day , and creativity is just a playful , gentle , really effective way to do that .

Speaker 4 19:02

Yeah , so . So maybe you know , as you say , no matter where you are on the scale and no matter whether you are noticing those physical symptoms or not , just make that decision to think OK , for five , 10 , 15 minutes every day as a start , whether it's the start of the day , the end of the day . I'm just going to find that tiny bit of me time , that white space , and see if I can do something that's creative . Yeah .

Speaker 2 19:27

And I think too , in our book we talk , you know , we make a big link between the gap in general literacy around mental health is about our nervous system and learning to notice and listen to the cues that our nervous system is telling us , which are often the cues that we need something .

Speaker 2 19:44

So when we get into that really activated overwhelm kind of 20 thoughts in our mind and we can't sleep , that's a very clear sign Our nervous system is waving at us saying I need something .

Speaker 2 19:57

And just like our body gives us messages every day , like hunger first , you know I'm cold , I need a jumper , and we tend to answer those calls for physical needs , like hunger and thirst , but we're not really given the tools to understand signs that they're being met . And so that's what we kind of lay out in the book learning to notice those signs and they're different for every person , there's often patterns to that and then the prescriptions are a way to start to apply a little strategy to offset some of those signs and return us into a place where our nervous system is regulated , we are able to follow through with , you know , making decisions for our health , for our business , for our family , from a place of logic , rational thinking , being able to be compassionate , which is hard to do when we're really kind of out of our heads , you know , overwhelmed , panicked , or even just numb and completely exhausted .

Speaker 4 20:58

And there could be , I guess , more subtle signs as well . You know , you don't have to be in that state where you're sort of waking up at night or having those 20 thoughts in your head , and so I think it's important , as you say , to kind of try and build it in , make it a daily practice , make it a gift that you give to yourself every single day . But I think it's also important to say that if you are in that position where you're feeling completely overwhelmed and like you're unable to cope , then it's definitely essential to seek professional help .

Speaker 3 21:28

Oh yeah , absolutely , absolutely yeah . This is not like we said . You know , it's not a medical intervention that solves , you know , extreme mental health problems . It's a maintenance for well-being and it does also work in , you know , trauma recovery . It's something that we can do every day and sits alongside other interventions and other therapeutic care .

Maintaining Creativity and Mental Health

Speaker 4 21:50

And both of you have worked for a long time in this field and you've also been involved in some high stress situations . The bushfires , the floods are the more recent ones . So what brings each of you that delight or and joy every day ? What do you each do for your mental health and creativity ?

Speaker 3 22:14

Yeah , I'm fortunate enough to live by the coast down here in South Asinian , wollongong , where makeshift is based , and so the ocean is my go-to salve . Every day A dipper day is kind of how I phrase it I do laps in our local sea pool or I just dive in at the ocean and that really keeps me grounded and keeps clears my head and listening .

Speaker 4 22:38

You and I are on the same planet . Here , a dipper day keeps the doctor away .

Speaker 2 22:47

Yeah , and I think too , we've been fortunate enough but also worked very hard in our business to weave this kind of way of working and living into how we work as well . So sometimes you know , having meetings outside or going for a walk , or actually in the middle of the day , we'll go , let's go and have a swim , and wouldn't it be great if everyone can work that way , and I know that that's not necessarily the case for a lot of people . But , yeah , I certainly find having a garden , having animals I do lots of drawing and just make sure there's notebooks and things to doodle on almost in every room of my house and live music for me is something that just if I can regularly get some kind of live music , it's absolutely a game changer in helping me feel connected to other people , but also that big dose of absolute joy , yeah .

Speaker 4 23:45

Yeah , so there's , so , yeah , there's lots of ways and 50 ways in your fabulous book , creative first aid , which , by the way , is available now at all good bookstores . So just putting on a different hat for a minute when you think about you know , makeshift in your business and what that has been over the last decade . What would you say is your secret , or secrets , of running a successful business ?

Speaker 3 24:11

Well , I mean it definitely . You know it requires putting on a different hat but at the same time it doesn't , because of the secret for us for our success is to have integrated creativity into our everything we do . So you know we obviously running a small business has a whole lot of organization and admin and a lot of really boring stuff that goes around with it . But we inject play into most of what we do to keep ourselves grounded and , you know , not take ourselves too seriously . And it also it's where the I want if we allow a bit of create creative practice before we design or develop a program or have , you know , a set agenda meeting that we do every week . It allows for ideas to form and it allows for us the free thinking and the mind wandering , so it enhances our business . So , yeah , it comes back to first aid .

Speaker 2 25:05

Yeah , interesting , and I think it also helps to live with the uncertainty . You know how you're running a business running a small business , in particularly in the last five years . You can't necessarily plan the next five years with any certainty , and so sitting with a lot of uncertainty is just part of that , and that can be really uncomfortable , it can be stressful , and so we have to apply the framework that we write about in our book of staying curious , you know , having lots of compassion , for we're doing our best and sometimes things don't always go the way we wanted them to or hoped they would . There's things out there we can't control , like when we're not allowed to meet in real life , and I know we've passed that now .

Speaker 4 25:51

But , yeah , I think that's been a big part of how we've stayed the force and stayed focused to yeah , so when you encounter those moments , it's about going back to the principles that you've written about and the things that you know in that creative first day the reason you started your business is . Is that what you mean ?

Speaker 2 26:13

Yeah , that's right . And just as long as we're still working to our values and our purpose and really focused on what is our work doing to have this social impact which is really at the heart of what we want to be doing , then you know , whatever kind of waves we're bobbing around on , that we didn't expect , we can still feel like we're . On course , you think we're not quite sure where we're going to land . Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 4 26:41

Yeah , I think that's such good advice for , you know , anyone who's listening , particularly now , who's feeling a little bit uncertain about where they're going , and you know , when you think back is there something that you know now that you wish you'd known then and maybe employed earlier In business .

Speaker 2 26:58

Oh gosh .

Speaker 2 26:59

Yes , I think you know there's a lot of great advice in business coaching and mentoring about getting your foundation really solid from the beginning , and a lot of that is the kind of boring stuff you know , getting really good financial processes , having really clear documents written out , making sure that , yeah , all those kind of nuts and bolts of your business are sorted and so you can get on with the business of doing what you're actually there to do and yeah that's . We've learned that a million times , how important that is , and I reminded of how important that is .

Speaker 4 27:42

Yeah particularly when you're starting out Amazing . Hey , Ellen and Lizzie , thank you so much for being on the podcast today . I know that everybody listening needs that dose of creativity in their life and , as I said , your book Creative First Aid is available now at all good bookstores . But what's the best way for listeners to connect with you if they want to sort of take things a step further ?

Speaker 3 28:07

They can find a lot of information about our organization , our programs , on our website , makeshiftorgau , and they can follow us on social media , makeshiftcreativefirstaid . No makeshift underscore . That's all right , it's a mouthful that makeshift underscore creativefirstaid .

Speaker 2 28:26

Yeah , yeah , I'm sure if you just type makeshift into Instagram .

Speaker 4 28:37

Surely it's going to come up and look for yeah look for Caitlin and Lizzie . And one last question , and I'd love each of you to answer this before we go If you could have a billboard with anything on it , what would it be ?

Speaker 3 28:54

Remember to play .

Speaker 4 28:56

That's a nice one , Lizzie . How about you , Caitlin ?

Speaker 2 29:00

Oh gosh , that's a big one . Yeah , I think it would be quite similar , but I suppose it'd be more about being kind to yourself . I mean , I've just spent this week running all these programs with people who are going through hard times and that self-compassion is so far away for so many people and it creates a lot of suffering . So we can create suffering for ourselves , but we can also create peace and connection and play . So be kind to yourself , which ?

Speaker 4 29:32

yeah , yeah , I love that . It's one of my values . Be kind , thank you again . Congratulations on the book and have a fabulous day . Thank you .

Speaker 2 29:42

Thank you so much for having us , Justin .

Speaker 1 29:46

Thanks for listening to the Secrets of Successful Business podcast . For more information on all things business , head to focicomau and make sure you hit subscribe on the show so you don't miss another new episode . If you're enjoying the show , please give it a quick rating or review , share it on your socials or with friends who might enjoy it . See you next time .