Sarah Megginson: Why it's time to stop saying you don't do money!

Thrilled to have personal finance expert Sarah Megginson join me on the podcast this week to talk about money. 

In this episode we talk about money confidence and how to make better money decisions both in business and in life. We chat about those financial pitfalls we all encounter from pay now, pay later to falling for the ever-growing range of money scams. 

We're discussing practical tips and sharing actionable advice to help you incorporate and maintain healthy financial habits - from monthly money meetings to mindset and everything in between. Tune in to master your money and design a life you love!

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

You're listening to the Secrets of Successful Business podcast , your go-to source for business tips , tricks and proven strategies that will help you create a streamlined and profitable business . We chat to the best minds in business about their journey , how they started , what they learned along the way . How long are you going to give this Going harder to get ?

Speaker 2 0:21

more Focus on growing more with what you have .

Speaker 1 0:26

What they learned along the way . How long are you going to give this ?

Speaker 3 0:29

What compromises are you going to make ? Just because you can do it doesn't mean that you should do it .

Speaker 1 0:33

It's really important to remember that it's a long game and , of course , we'll ask them for their secret sauce for creating a successful business . If you're not failing , you're not doing it right . You should be struggling at times . That is part of the journey . Join us as we take a sneak peek behind the curtain , talk solutions for those business pain points working smarter , not harder , mindset and the challenges of fitting it all in with the demands of today's busy lifestyle . If you're a business owner , side hustler or just starting your business journey , this podcast is for you . Now here's your host , business coach and content creator , justine McLean from Flossie Creative .

Speaker 3 1:13

Hello and thanks for joining me on the podcast today . In case we haven't met , I'm Justine , a small business owner on a mission to uncover and share the secrets of creating and running a profitable , sustainable and successful business . I've been in business for over 20 years now and I get to use all that I've learned along the way to help other women in business reduce the overwhelm , gain visibility around their numbers , charge what they're worth and make more money . It's about designing a life you love that fits into your definition of success . So , if I can help you create the profitable business you deserve , it's about designing a life you love that fits into your definition of success . So if I can help you create the profitable business you deserve , please reach out Now . Without further ado , let's dive into today's episode . Hi everyone and welcome to the podcast .

Speaker 3 1:59

Today I have an extra special guest with me . Her name is Sarah Megenson . Now , sarah is a personal finance expert and she has over 20 years of experience by day . She's the head of editorial for findercomau , which is a financial comparison site dedicated to helping everyone make better money decisions , but she's also a regular columnist for Yahoo Finance and the Money Magazine and frequently appears on TV , radio and in digital and print media . I'm sure you've seen her somewhere . In 2023 alone , her tips and advice were featured over 1,200 times .

Speaker 3 2:38

Now , what makes Sarah extra special to me is she also happens to be the editor of my brand new book Become a Business Money Magnet Simple Ways to Manage your Money and Supercharge your Profits . Sarah was an incredible resource for me . She was that sense check that read through the book and made sure it all made sense , so I'll be forever grateful to Sarah for her comments and her thoughts and her edits around my book . Now , today , sarah and I have decided to join forces because we're both really passionate about helping women particularly increase their financial literacy , and one of the things that we really want to put a stop to is women everywhere saying you know what ? I don't do money , because it's a narrative that just isn't serving us in 2024 , and now is the perfect time to change it . Sarah's also going to share her insights from her recent trips to the UN Women's Summit in New York and Money 2020 in Bangkok , so there's lots to talk about . Let's get into it . Hi , sarah , welcome to the podcast .

Speaker 2 3:44

I'm very happy to be here . It's so lovely to have a chat .

Speaker 3 3:47

It's very exciting because we've been working together quite closely over the last few months bringing my book to life . I was just saying I couldn't have done it without you .

Speaker 2 3:58

Oh , I appreciate that , but all the magic was yours .

Speaker 3 4:03

Thank , you For people who don't know you ? Can you start by telling us just a bit about yourself , what you do and , in particular , the passion that we both share about helping people make better money decisions , and why that's important to you ?

Speaker 2 4:16

Yes , awesome , my name is Sarah Megenson . Obviously I'm a personal finance expert and I've been a finance journalist for a couple of decades , for probably 22 odd years and over that time I've had the chance I was managing editor of a couple of magazines and for the last four years I've been working at a comparison site called findercomau , where I'm head of editorial and I manage our team of writers and stuff there . So over that time I've had the chance to interview so many different people in really diverse and interesting roles , so that everyone from bank CEOs and tech kind of unicorn CEOs through to politicians , deputy prime ministers , titans of industry , like I've just . I've interviewed all of these really smart , switched on people and you start to pick up themes and ideas and understand what makes people tick and you also start to understand that these are the decision makers that really shape the world we live in .

Speaker 2 5:09

So that's why I find it so fascinating and why I've always been , you know , so lucky to be a journalist and get access to these people , because I love figuring out , you know the decisions they make and why they make them and how they impact us in the real world , and that's what I'm really passionate about is trying to take those concepts and those ideas and make them really easy for everyday people to understand when it comes to the economy , to interest rates , to cost of living , to all of these things that impact everyday Australians . You know , just recently , last month or a little while ago , we had the federal budget . I can remember in my 20s not even caring about the federal budget , not even really understanding it , didn't understand the purpose of it or why I should have any interest in it whatsoever . I love now being able to take something like that and try to make it meaningful for people and try to help them understand how these big things impact them and why their interest rates are going up , why inflation matters and why they should care about this stuff .

Speaker 3 6:04

Yeah , I think that's so true , isn't it ? Because we , you know , as people who obviously you and I get the finances , but as people who don't get finances , all this stuff is often a soundbite on TV and it depends on the slant of the journalist or the organisation that's sending the message out , or the interpretation of what we're listening to a politician say , or the governor of the reserve bank . That will determine how we sort of , you know , take in that information and react to it . And I think it's just so helpful to help people , you know , to have people like you who can put this stuff into plain English , because for so often , for so many of us and I think women in particular there's this narrative that we just don't do money In school .

Speaker 3 6:52

We kind of get taught just I presume it's the same as it was when I went to school a load of rubbish . Frankly , that is not going to help you unless you're doing a science degree at university . It's not going to help you in everyday life . And so a lot of us will naturally think , oh well , we just can't , we can't deal with the numbers and , you know , I think when we think about 2024 , that narrative just is no longer serving us . You know , why do you think we need to really lean in and start to change that narrative ?

Speaker 2 7:22

It's so funny you say that . Just this morning my daughter she's in grade eight and she was whinging about her algebra homework and she's like , when am I ever going to use algebra ? I said don't be surprised , but it depends what your career is . When you get older she goes maybe if I want to be an algebra teacher . But no , it is such a great question and I think this idea that I don't do money or I don't do numbers , it comes from a lack of confidence usually around how we interact with money and numbers .

Speaker 2 7:50

But I just think the stakes are too high to not engage with it anymore . The thing that we miss out on you know just from the really small things . Again , when I was in my 20s didn't understand super , didn't care about it , didn't consider it my money . But now I realize if in my twenties I had just been able to find $20 a week and put it in my super fund , the impact that could have had over time to build my wealth . You know probably when you crunch the numbers somewhere between tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars , more wealth I would have had just by engaging in that when I was a little bit younger . So I think , yeah , the stakes are too high to ignore your money and no one is going to save you . You're going to have to figure it out eventually . So you might as well try to figure it out sooner than later . And I think you know you're exactly right . They don't teach enough of this stuff in schools and it is .

Speaker 2 8:40

I think a lot of people , women in particular can get overwhelmed by all the complexities involved and just start to tune out of when you have someone on TV , like you said , an economist , talking about an RBA rate rise and we've seen a correction in interest rates by 25 basis points and people tune out . What does that even mean ? What is a correction to an everyday person ? What is a correction in the market or what is a basis point ? No one knows what a basis point is . We know what interest rates are .

Speaker 2 9:12

So that's a really big kind of passion of mine is trying to make sure that I take whatever is happening and then rework it into being really simple . You know , the last two years I've spoken about inflation more than I care to ever talk about it again . But you know I was talking to my husband in the kitchen one night two years into . You know this cost of living process . And he goes what is inflation anyway ? And I said it's just the difference between what something cost last year and this year .

Speaker 2 9:40

And I was holding , I think , a bottle of milk and I said the bottle of milk last year cost $2 and this year it costs $2.20 . That means that bottle of milk has had inflation of 10% , like it's just a change in price over 12 months . And he's like , oh , never understood that , just understood that it's being talked a lot on TV . So that's really . You know , a passion of mine is to just make these things as easy to understand as possible . Take all the mystery out of it , because when you understand it you can then start to make decisions that are really empowered and that you know put you in the driver's seat of your experiences in life .

Speaker 3 10:13

Yeah , I totally agree with you . I always say in business you know , understand the story of your numbers , so you can be the author of your story because you know , rather than just leaving it to someone else . And I think it's just as important in our personal life . And I think when you don't understand something , it's easy to just sort of oh yeah , I don't do numbers or I don't understand that . And , as you say , a lot of it comes down to confidence with our finances and just making those better money decisions . So what are some of the things that we can do right now to help us become more confident and make some better money decisions ?

Speaker 2 10:51

Yeah , I think the first thing is to get your head out of the sand if you are avoiding it . A lot of people avoid their financial situation for a number of reasons because they don't feel confident in managing it , they don't understand it or they're afraid what they'll discover . You know a lot of people are overspending and they think I just want to avoid that for as long as possible . So I think the first step is to just actually create time for it and get your head out of the sand and say , okay , I'm going to actually attack this and I'm going to work out my finances . And then the second thing I would say is make it fun . And I know for a lot of people they're thinking what , how do you possibly make money fun ? But by that I mean turn it into something that doesn't make you feel drained and anxious just at the thought of doing it . So you might be a person I am a person who loves spreadsheets , so I like tracking all of my stuff in spreadsheets .

Speaker 2 11:40

For some people , spreadsheets are their idea of hell , so everyone has a different system that will work for you . It's just a matter of putting a structure in place . Whatever that is , I love tracking all of our money stuff through spreadsheets , because then I can monitor it over time and I can see the changes . If that doesn't work for you , you could do something as simple as a folder where you chuck your receipts and your invoices either a real folder in real life or a folder on your computer , just that it's all in one place , and then when it's time to do your tax , you can give that folder to your accountant . You know , you've just got a structure there to capture it .

Speaker 2 12:12

I also think automating your money is absolutely the biggest time saver and also the biggest mental energy clarifier . I guess when people are constantly thinking about their bills , it's very draining . So having your bills automated and set up so that you have , you know , one account that is your bills account , you always make sure you've got enough money in that account so you're not getting overdrawn fees . But too many people waste too much money on late fees and those types of penalties just because they're constantly scrambling to pay their bills . So I think automating is a really good way to start as well .

Speaker 3 12:48

Yeah , I agree , and you know , when you talk about some of the reasons that people you know don't look at their numbers that in the kind of the pile of I'm imagining the pile of unopened credit card bills and that sort of thing sitting on the bench it often means that we end up making some big mistakes with our money . What are the things that you've noticed over the years that people are continually making mistakes with in terms of their finances , and how can they avoid those mistakes ?

Speaker 2 13:20

Such a great question . The really big one in the last few years is buy now , pay later . It has just absolutely exploded and it just makes spending money you don't have really easy . The very low barrier to entry there , so you can shop with money you don't have and , you know , pay it off over six weeks . But there was a study done by a university not last year , I think the year before , a couple of years ago and they calculated the true cost of buy now , pay later . Because they advertise themselves as no interest , which is true , but you do get a lot of fees if you don't pay it back in time . They worked out an average purchase . I think it was a $50 purchase . If you didn't pay it back on time , you could have an effective interest rate of 267% . Wow , because the fees they don't seem much , but the fees are $8 here , $10 there and they build up and up and up . So if you've got a $50 purchase and you pay a $10 fee in it five times , you end up paying double for that item and I just think buy now , pay later .

Speaker 2 14:23

Really the only way that should be used is if you are buying something that you can afford and you have the money to pay for it , but you just want to , for cashflow reasons , spread that payment out . So I've used buy now , pay later . I have some beautiful shelves behind me that I bought from Ikea for $1,500 . And I used Buy Now , pay Later to buy that because I spread that $1,500 out over six weeks , paid it on my credit card anyway , so it was automatically taken out of my credit card , so I didn't risk at all having a late payment fee or any type of fee at all , so I paid nothing for it , but it just meant that that cost got spread out over two months of my credit card instead of one month . That , to me , is the only good time to use buy now , pay later . Every other use of it just has the potential to get you in financial trouble . And you can have multiple accounts going so you could have four different brands going and have outstanding buy now , pay later arrangements with each of them . And very quickly you're in trouble because you've got to find $700 this pay to keep up to date on all of them . And then you're .

Speaker 2 15:30

We actually just at Finder just this week did some research and found that people are skipping other things , that they're skipping out on making personal loan repayments , or some people are actually skipping meals to be able to have that money to put towards their buy now , pay later . So I think that's a really . It's really correlated with the rise in online shopping and impulse shopping . The other stat we just found at Finder recently is that we spend an average of $44 a week impulse shopping and that's you know . We've all done that .

Speaker 2 15:58

Before you're scrolling on social media , there's an ad for something . Within the space of three clicks , boop , boop , boop , it's in your cart , you've got it , the package is coming . It's a quick little dopamine hit . But we're not thinking things through the way we would and have in the past .

Speaker 2 16:12

Now my mom , when she was shopping 30 years ago , she was at a shop using cash You're really mindful about . Do I need this item ? And if my mom was standing at the register and she's got $50 and knows she needs to buy us dinner that night , then well , this item's going back . I'm not going to buy it . But these days we can just very quickly , I can flick that off to buy now , pay later , and I don't actually even have to spend anything on it now and I still use the money I had set aside for dinner tonight I can still use . So it encourages us to be less mindful about our money and our spending . So I am a really big fan of minimizing buy now , pay later in your life if you can , because I just don't think it sets you up for any positive habits with your budget .

Speaker 3 16:55

I think that's such good advice , and quite often you know we attach our credit card to that , so then our credit card's blowing out as well . And I think credit card debt , you know itself , is sometimes hard to . You know , once that horse is bolted and you can't , or if you can't , make the minimum payment , it's really hard to get that back under control . So it just is adding fuel to the fire , isn't it ?

Speaker 2 17:20

Yeah , absolutely . And the only reason I link my credit card to my Afterpay was to make sure I never had a fee , so it was always coming off my Afterpay . But I actually I joined a couple of different Buy Now , pay Later platforms just as an experiment . I wasn't keen , I'm not a big fan of them overall myself , but I joined them as an experiment . I wasn't keen , I'm not a big fan of them overall myself , but I joined them as an experiment to see what impact it would have on my credit file . So I did about six months of spending on it .

Speaker 2 17:48

Never had any fees or charges , but I did six months of spending and changed none of my other habits . You know I still had credit cards and everything else stayed the same largely and my credit number score took a real dip . It went from around I started at around 859 and it got down to a low of , I think , 777 . Wow , that was the only thing I'd done differently . I did it for six months and then I went okay , this experiment is now impacting me . And then I haven't done any transactions this year and my credit score is starting to come back up . I'm back in the 800s again .

Speaker 3 18:29

And just for anyone listening who isn't sure what a credit score is and how that can have an impact , can you just explain that ?

Speaker 2 18:35

Yes , great . So a credit score is kind of your resume for credit providers like the bank . So it tracks your habits with money . So if you are behind on any bills , it tracks your they call it positive credit reporting now . So if you're really good at paying your bills on time , that will be recorded on your credit score . If you fall behind quite regularly , if you don't pay off debts , if you've got a number of different debts , that can all impact your credit score . And the higher your credit score is , the greater your chance of getting a loan , whether it's a home loan or a car loan . So you really ideally want your credit score in good shape .

Speaker 2 19:10

And the really the fascinating thing there is that Buy Now , pay Later platforms . They sell themselves based on the fact that you don't need to have your credit score checked to use them . So when you apply for a credit card , they're going to check your credit score before they give it to you . It's just a part of responsible lending Buy now , pay later , do not have to do a credit score check for you , and they kind of sell themselves based on that , because it makes it very easy for you to get credit with them , and that's why I did this experiment . I wanted to see does it actually ? You know you might not need to check my score to provide me with credit , but does it actually impact my score if I use it a lot ? So there's just last year . There's been a raft of new legislations that have been proposed around buy now , pay later , because it's very unregulated at the moment and I think you know a bit more regulation there will help make it easier for consumers to not get too caught up in it all .

Speaker 3 20:03

And just to be clear on that , you know the impact that you felt was as someone who was using Buy Now , Pay Later and paying it off on time . Yes , and it still impacted your score .

Speaker 2 20:09

So it's just something . I must say . It was an . It's very anecdotal , you know , like I didn't , I can't 100% say that caused it , but I didn't change anything else . My home loan didn't change . I cancelled a credit card and applied for a different credit card in that time , but that's something I do all the time . Anyway , I changed my credit cards every 12 months , so I didn't change any other habits . So it's an anecdotal , it's not set in stone , but to me it's pretty compelling evidence that they're not doing positive things for your financial situation .

Speaker 2 20:44

And these days banks , when they are assessing your applications , they'll look at your credit score . But they also look at you know it's a range of things . They look at your income , your job history and all of that stuff . But they will now look at your bank statements to see what kind of relationship you have with spending . And if they see a lot of buy now , pay later , and a lot of Uber Eats and a lot of those really convenient expenses , that can actually make it harder for you to get a loan , because the banks can view that as being a little bit reckless and a little bit uncontrolled or undisciplined in your spending . So those types of habits you really want to get in control . If you are hoping to , you know , borrow money to buy a big ticket item like a house . You want to try and get those habits in your rearview mirror .

Speaker 3 21:27

Yeah , absolutely . And banks that's a whole other podcast episode . Let's not even get started there Now . You recently attended a couple of events . The UN Women's Summit in New York was one of them . What were some of the impactful lessons or insights that you gained from that experience ?

Speaker 2 21:45

Ah , yes , that was incredible . So I went in March to New York City for the United Nations Commission for the Status of Women . So it's an annual event where around 6,000 global kind of leaders in women's rights come together . So it was just absolutely mind-blowing and life-changing to be in that space with those incredible people , and the problems to solve were so diverse . You know you had people from every country , so there were some some people who they're representing their , their countries , where you know there's a huge amount of sexual violence and things against women . So those women problems to solve for them are deeply rooted in safety and giving them access to education so that they can get themselves out of those situations . The the really powerful thing to me was just seeing how many women are so actively involved in the solution like they . There was so many examples of particularly young women , like teenage women and women in their early twenties , who are so just driven and motivated to change , just to change their situation , to change their opportunities .

Speaker 2 22:52

In a number of countries , like throughout Asia and India , there are so many microfinance kind of platforms being launched and there was one woman she was amazing who was are so many microfinance kind of platforms being launched and there was one woman she was amazing who was talking about a microfinance business . She tried to get off the ground and the banks didn't want to know her because she wasn't male . And she finally got some backing for it and it was a really small scale , like the talking cents . It was a way of rounding up cents to move , you know , one or two cents into these accounts for women and you know , one of the men she was talking to at the bank was like that's just going to make no impact , we're not interested . And the way , you know , she just had so much conviction and drive to just push forward with it and it was such a reminder to me that , even though it might seem really , really small , when you bring all of those , bring a number of people behind it , you can actually make a really big impact .

Speaker 2 23:42

So it was incredible and I got to work to got to know the women in Australia behind a group called Real Futures and they're an indigenous group in Western Sydney who are helping women kind of rebuild and get into the workforce and that was amazing . They do everything from , you know , helping them do run-throughs for interviews and what's that say uniforms , not uniforms like what to wear to a job interview and how to budget and all of that type of thing . It's really like hands-on practical tips and advice to help women thrive . So it was just amazing to spend a week there . And to spend a week with all of these incredible women and advocates who are just working day in , day out to advance the progress of women around the world was absolutely incredible . It definitely has left a lasting impact .

Speaker 3 24:34

And then , of course , there was Money 2020 in Bangkok , where you mentioned to me that you learned about AI , the impact of AI . You know scams , deep fakes , scamming in particular . I did a podcast episode on this just last week . It feels like , you know , it's a matter of if we're going to get scammed oh sorry , when we're going to get scammed , not if for most of us . I think Australians have lost $73 million in the first three months of this year by being scammed , so that's about an average of 15 grand a person . What are some things we can do to protect ourselves from these increasingly sophisticated scams ? What did you learn out of Bangkok 2020 ?

Speaker 2 25:24

Oh gosh , that conference was amazing and it is so like wild that you use that statement , because I had written in my notes preparing for today that scamming is a matter of when , not if , we will all get done by it . It's just a matter of to what degree and how , what safeguards you have in place . Money 2020 is held in Bangkok . It's an annual conference where all of the biggest brands and names and changemakers and technology in money come together . One of the things we were talking about there is how much scam technology has evolved and is evolving . So I was speaking to one guy . He was the head of AI and fraud for a particular money exchange platform and he said the problems he was solving three months ago are already out of date . Like every day , he's just facing new ways that people and he's stress testing his system every day trying to find new ways to hack his own system so that he can get to those issues before a real hacker does right .

Speaker 2 26:19

And one of the big emerging areas that is going to be really hard for us all is around deepfake technology . Ah , yeah , you know where the videos can actually take shape of someone else or voices . You know we can imitate your child's voice on the phone and say hey , mum , I'm in trouble , I need you to send me $2,000 immediately . And at the conference they shared the story of one man in Hong Kong who was in a board meeting with his entire board . A video call on Zoom and his CEO asked him to transfer $25 million and he did on the call and hung up from the call and realized it was all deepfakes . Everyone was a bad actor in that room . None of his actual board was in that meeting and it had been a month's long kind of process . Somehow these deepfakes had infiltrated his company and I don't know what ended up happening , whether they got the money back , but I think that's the real dramatic end of the scale . But you know these things are happening to to everyday Australians and I think you know the figures you quoted before are really underreported , like it's billions , because so many people don't want to admit or , you know , share that they've had this happen . It can feel so shameful and so embarrassing to admit that you've fallen for it , um , but there's absolutely nothing to be ashamed about . It happens to everyone .

Speaker 2 27:41

I've been scammed twice in the last year . One one was somehow someone got access to my credit card and my bank was amazing because they actually called us in the middle of the night and said hey , are you trying to use your card in this place ? No , turned out , someone in New York had somehow you know scammed our card and bought $3,000 worth of computer equipment in New York . So they could see that we were on the Gold Coast and it wasn't us . And the bank employee said it was likely that it was just someone literally spinning numbers and just lucked on our number , got the combination right of our numbers with the expiry dates and everything . They have the technology to just spin millions of options per second right . So that was probably just bad luck and my bank intercepted it and refunded it immediately . So that was really lucky because that was $3,000 .

Speaker 2 28:31

The other time it happened was my own fault . I got a text that is now very widespread but I hadn't heard about it at the past and it was from , apparently from linked about my toll road . I very rarely drive on a toll road and I just happened to get this text message the day after I had used a toll road for the first time in probably two years and my account had actually been suspended a few months earlier because it had fallen behind , there had been an issue with it , I think , my credit card had lapsed , and so when I got the text message from them , it very much made sense to me . I was like , yes , I used a toll road yesterday and a few months ago I did receive an email saying that my account was suspended and I had to fix it . So it made a lot of sense to me that it wouldn't have worked . And they said put your credit card details in here to pay your toll . I did that and it was very early in the morning , it was about six o'clock in the morning , I was in bed and I just got the text and I did it . I put my own credit card details in and that was my big mistake . Could have been really expensive for me , because as soon as you engage and you take action , you are now responsible for whatever happens next . So I was really lucky that as soon as I did it , I pressed pay and then another alert came up from the greedy scammers saying payment failed , enter your bank details here . And that's when I realized , oh whoops , this is not legitimate at all and I immediately just got out of that window , called my bank and canceled my card . So I canceled it before they could do any damage . Had they not been greedy and had just said , yes , your payment of your $3.50 toll has been processed , I would have assumed that I had just done something really legitimate and I would have gone about my day and it probably would have been days , if not weeks , until I received my bank statement and saw all of the charges that they'd put and by them it would have been too late and it was my fault because I had put my details in , I had engaged with it . So I'm so grateful they were really greedy and taught me that it's happening constantly .

Speaker 2 30:30

My mum got one just yesterday where she called me , a bit panicked because she got a message from an apparent insurance group saying that she'd been in a car accident two years ago and they were chasing her out for $3,000 and there was a payment link and there were so many red flags in it . But my mom is 73 and not super computer and tech literate , so to her it was very legitimate . It said , calling from you know , the Australian insurance agency . I said there's no such thing as the Australian insurance agency . So there's things you can do to check right , but when you're panicked ? My mom got panicked because she said oh well , I actually was in a fender bender a few years ago and maybe this is legit . And I said well , there's a few things you can do to check . As soon as she sent it to me , I knew it was fake . The main reason I knew it was fake is because they had a payment link there immediately .

Speaker 2 31:20

Now , if you actually did have someone reach out after many years and say you've got this surprise payment , there would be a conversation . They wouldn't send you a link and say pay here . There would be an advice of you owe this and here's your invoice and you've got 30 days to pay . You know , government agencies are usually quite reasonable . Okay , I'll take that back . Their payment options are usually quite reasonable and they will give you , you know , not only a 30-day payment window , but here are your options If you cannot make this payment . Here is the payment plan option . Here is our hardship line . You know there's actually legislation that guides all of that .

Speaker 2 31:57

So the fact that they would this you know scammer was just saying click here and pay it was to me a massive red flag . But you know , I can see how convincing . It is for her , and I am a personal finance expert . I'm in this stuff every day . I am on top of all the scam watch data and I'm learning about it all every day and I still get scammed . So I think no one is safe from this .

Speaker 2 32:22

It's really difficult and the best thing you can do is , if you get any type of communication , email , text or anything that you receive that you're not expecting , is to just pause and take a step back from it and speak to someone else , because they will be a sense check for you , because what these scammers rely on is that you are very stressed and they'll always put a timeframe around it , like there'll be an urgency to it , because they want to get you off your even footing so that you will make a silly decision . So take a step back , take a deep breath and understand that , even if this is legit , you don't have to deal with it this second . You can give yourself 24 hours to figure it out . So speak to someone you trust and go . Hey , like my mum did , she reached out to me after a full day of fretting . She reached out to me and I looked at it and said , absolutely rubbish , ignore it . So I think that's the . This is an absolute like find a buddy situation to try and look at your next steps .

Speaker 3 33:20

Yeah , because I think life , the pace of life , is so quick . Now I think it's . You know , you see something you think , look , I'm going to forget if I don't action this . Now click , and yeah , I get all those sort of text messages all the time and I've always been that person to kind of delete , delete , delete . But you know , today I got an email asking me to join the Illuminati and I just had to click here . Lord knows what scam was involved in that . But you're right , they are really sophisticated and I think the best way to safeguard your personal and your financial information is to , as you say , have that buddy sense . Check it , do a Google search , see if the phone number matches up , and essentially , never just believe someone when they ring you up over the phone and pay over the phone . Essentially never just believe someone when they ring you up over the phone and pay over the phone . You can ask for an invoice to be sent or you can say I'll call you back and Google the number .

Speaker 2 34:14

I think that's such a great point . Just question it and whoever it is , like my mom yesterday , the first step I would take if that was me is I would Google it . Who is this agency ? And I would have immediately realized they don't exist . Now , sometimes scammers will create these fake websites and things , but there are ways to sense check . You know , if you're getting a correspondence from your bank , then just call them back , say okay , I just want to make sure this is legit . I'm going to call my bank back and call , hang up the call and dial the numbers again . Don't just recall the number that called you , because they can use technology to face that .

Speaker 2 34:52

It is really difficult now because banks are putting a bit more of an onus on people and the consumer to take your own steps to protect yourself , but they are also starting to do things . The big banks in particular are facing a lot of pressure to help people navigate this stuff . So I've noticed in all of my banking platforms now , because I spread partly for scam protection I spread my accounts across a number of different banks . So I have an everyday bank , I have my mortgage with a different bank and I have a credit card with two different banks , so they're all very spread out , partly because I'm loyal to me and I'm not loyal to a single brand and partly because I like to have all of my stuff spread out so that if I do ever get scammed I don't have all my eggs in one basket . And every time I make a transfer it pops up with an alert in my banks now saying do you know this person ? Are you sure you want to send this money ? This stuff is just happening .

Speaker 3 35:42

So constantly now . Yeah , I think that's such good advice . And I think the other thing is , you know , increasing financial literacy as you know , just getting our head out of the sand , forgetting that I don't do numbers , narrative and increasing that awareness is so vital . How do you see , you know the role of media improving that , or helping to improve financial literacy and awareness , because you're in this every day .

Speaker 2 36:07

Yes , and a really fascinating stat about it I find fascinating anyway is that 75% of the media spokespeople on TV talking about this stuff are men . Only 25% are women , which is why it's something I'm so passionate about getting that female perspective out there and making sure that women are counting themselves into these discussions , because we know that , like , women tend to tune out a bit if it's a man talking , if you've got particularly a man talking about the economy and using language that is not very accessible . So if you have a man sitting there going yes , well , the economy is moving at a stagnant pace and we've got a two-speed economy and we need a 60 basis point correction , like everyone zones out of that , unless you're a very specific subset women , though we respond to just like accessibility . So that's that's why I think media has a huge role to play here , and I'm really excited that I get the opportunity to help with that .

Speaker 2 37:03

I also think a huge part of the puzzle here is social media , which is both an opportunity and a potential risk , because social media has zero barrier to entry , so anyone can get on social media and give advice , but you know 90% of it is not accurate . So I think it's really important that you kind of just qualify what you hear and see and ask yourself if it makes sense , because there's I see so much questionable stuff on my feed about investing or money . You know even just all sorts of different strategies . Some of it is really useful and it's a good thought starter , but you know there are different strategies . Some of it is really useful and it's a good thought starter , but you know there are different strategies for different people and there's a reason why financial advisors need to do so much training and that you know the industry is so regulated because they're giving you advice about your finances that impact your entire future . So you know you don't want to be taking advice from any old person From someone in a like-minded bitches or whatever that podcast .

Speaker 3 38:11

Facebook platform . So many people ask for financial advice in there .

Speaker 2 38:17

Yeah , and you know it's great . I really am a big fan of having these conversations . You should absolutely have more of these conversations . I love people talking about how much they earn . I had a friend who got a new job and she was talking to her friends about it and she shared how much the new salary was . And her friend said you should ask for a signing bonus . And she said what ? And the friend said why don't you ask for one ? You've got nothing to lose . So she went back and said okay , yeah , I'm happy with that salary , but I'd like a $10,000 signing bonus . And they said yes , and that's the power to me of making sure we're all talking to each other the way men do . Men have had these conversations for millennia . It's time for us to make money part of our daily conversations and uplift each other , show each other what's possible there . But you know , conversations with girlfriends and social communities is one thing , but actually getting advice about what to do with your money , you should turn to the experts for that , and I myself I you know .

Speaker 2 39:11

I consider myself a personal finance expert , but I'm not a financial advisor . I have a couple of ASIC recognized accreditations and I've got a couple of decades of experience , but I'm not a qualified advisor , so I'm really mindful that I don't give people personalized advice . I'm licensed through Finder to give general advice advice that is general in nature . But you know , I often get emails from people through the website and that was very specific . You know , I've got my loan is X amount of dollars and I'm 62 and I plan to retire in six years and where should I put my money ? And I will always politely reply and say here's the details of a great financial advisor that can help you with that . Here's some guides on our website that can help you understand it a bit better . But you know these are . We're talking about your financial future and your retirement and there's , like I said at the beginning , the stakes are just so high here , so you want to make sure that you're getting that advice of someone really trustworthy .

Speaker 3 40:06

Yeah , absolutely , and I think the thing is you're right , you know , I mean I'm a registered BAS agent . We have a very regulated industry . So within that sort of financial services , you've got financial advisors , accountants and BAS agents in their three different categories and we all have to have very specific education and then go on and have specific , you know , training in a certain area to be able to give that advice . So your accountant just so you know people understand might not necessarily be able to give financial advisory advice because they're actually not licensed to do it . So , yeah , it's really important .

Speaker 2 40:48

I have seen that blow up spectacularly where ? Because I used to be the editor of a property investing magazine and you know I can remember a story once of an investor whose accountant gave them really poor advice about their how to structure their investment , because they were trying to help them kind of make the most of negative gearing but it didn't have a long-term view , it was very much structured for now and then they eventually went to a financial advisor who just was like you've , basically you've got it in the wrong structure and the wrong name and when you sell it you're going to make you know it was just all poorly done and that's the risk of , you know , not getting the right advice at the right time from the right person . I think social media and all of these money conversations are a fantastic starting point and there's so many good books and podcasts and things you can read these days to understand all the basics . I don't think financial advice is super accessible . For a lot of people it's quite expensive , so there's so many different ways you can access this information .

Speaker 2 41:49

I would just make sure you really trust your sources . You know if you're going to make decisions around , particularly around investing in property or investing in shares and making those really big long-term decisions , then make sure you're going to really trusted sources for it and also start with smaller stakes . You know , adding $20 a week to your superannuation , that's a small stakes investment but you know , has the potential to really help you build your financial future . So start with those smaller steps that help you get comfortable with all of these ideas and concepts and then you can start to build up to the bigger , more impactful decisions .

Speaker 3 42:24

Yeah , I mean that's such good advice and I think , and such a good suggestion because quite often , you know , we feel like there's this big barrier to entry . But you can definitely start small , whether it's super , whether it's savings , whatever it is . And you know , I mean that leads me to sort of this question . You know , so often we listen to these podcasts , we read this information , we think , yep , that's all great , I'm going to do something about it , but we take absolutely no action . So can you throw down the gauntlet today , you know , to anyone listening what's one piece of actionable advice that you would give listeners who just want to make some better money decisions , but something that they can literally hit . You know , when this podcast finishes , they can go and action it .

Speaker 2 43:04

Yes , such a great question . My advice is to set a money meeting for yourself once a month , every month . Do it around payday if you're paid monthly or if you're paid fortnightly . Do it around one of your paydays . Have a monthly meeting with yourself and do whatever it takes to make it fun for you . So that might mean you set a little ritual where you light a candle and you have a cup of tea and a chocolate , or you , if it's after dark , you might have a wine and a cheese platter . But set yourself up so that it becomes something you actually look forward to , rather than you know something that's going to drain your energy .

Speaker 2 43:37

And at that monthly money meeting , just that's your chance to check in on all your money stuff . So that's when you pay your bills . If you don't have them automated , hopefully you automate them all . But it's where you check your renewals . Your insurance renewal has come in , but it's , you know , 30% more .

Speaker 2 43:55

Okay , I'm going to have my monthly money meeting and I'm going to check it and I'm going to compare and get a better deal . It's where you check and see are you still using all the streaming platforms you're paying for ? Are you still going to the gym that you're paying for . You know it's your one appointment , a couple of hours a month , where you check in on all of this stuff and on all of this stuff , and the gift that that gives you is 29 days and 22 hours for the rest of the month to not think about your money , because you know I've got this appointment and that's where I'm going to figure it all out and I just think doing that , taking that action for yourself , is going to give you the gift of just a little bit more peace of mind around your money and you can tackle things as you go .

Speaker 2 44:31

So you might go this month's money meeting I'm going to get my budget sorted . Next month I'm going to look at my super . The following month I'm going to compare home loans and see if I can get a better deal there . The following month I'm going to transfer my credit card to a new 0% interest card so I can pay it off . You know , tackle a different thing each month , but just make sure you're regularly checking in so that small things don't become big things and you can get on top of your money leaks and all of your bits and pieces so that you've just got peace of mind around your money .

Speaker 3 45:02

Okay , challenge thrown down everyone . Book that monthly money meeting with yourself and let Sarah and I know in our DMs on Instagram whether you have done that or not and what a difference it has made for your life . So , in addition to being in charge of editorial at findercomau , you also have a little side business there , and you've been in business for a long time . What's your secret , or secrets , of running a successful business ?

Speaker 2 45:35

Oh , I feel like that is a that could be not just a podcast , but like a series on its own . I think the biggest thing I've learned I have I've I've been in business for myself , as for a number of years . I've also run a restaurant for a number of years as a business owner and the biggest thing I learned in all of it is to not expect other people to have the same approach that you do . So whether they are employees , or they are suppliers or business partners or people that you do work with . You know whoever it is .

Speaker 2 46:11

I used to just assume that everyone I don't know not that they all thought like me , but just everyone was working to the same code , the same code of ethics , the same way of doing business , and you realize and you work with and interact with people from who just operate so differently that that expectation really set me up to fail a lot , because it meant I wouldn't get the results I was expecting , or I wouldn't get paid when I was expecting , or I wouldn't get the outcome I thought I was going to get , because I would expect them to do it the way I would do it . You know , if I owe someone money , I'm going to pay it by the due date . That's just not how everyone operates . So I then learned to adjust my expectations so that I wasn't constantly disappointed or frustrated or chasing people up . So I think that's been one of my biggest lessons was just having more adjusting my expectations , I guess , around how different people do things .

Speaker 2 47:06

I think the reason why that's really helpful to run a successful business is , I think it then enabled me to realize , you know , surrounding myself with people who are exactly like me and who think like me is not actually what I need . What I need is I'm very good with the money stuff . I'm very organized , I'm very good at that . So what I actually need is people that can do A , b , c and D , which are not my strengths , so that the business can thrive . So I think you know those two things kind of go hand in hand understanding that other people are going to work differently to you and then using that to improve the way your business works , I think is the key to success . That's amazing .

Speaker 3 47:45

It's honestly . We're over 150 episodes into this podcast and that is the first time that I've asked that question , that I've got that answer , so I find it completely fascinating . Sarah , thank you so much for being on the podcast today . There is lots of good stuff that we've covered . I really hope that everyone listening has been able to pick one takeaway , something that they're going to be able to action and really kind of get a better understanding of their finances . What's the best way for listeners to connect with you ?

Speaker 2 48:18

I am active on Instagram . I really culled back on every other social media because I found it was taking over my life , so I'm active on Instagram . You can find me there at Sarah .

Speaker 3 48:27

Megenson Money Amazing . And finally , before we go , just one sneaky question . If you could have a billboard with anything on it , what would it be ?

Speaker 2 48:35

Oh my gosh , I don't know , as in a billboard , to try and help people .

Speaker 3 48:41

You can have whatever you want on that billboard . Sarah , oh my gosh .

Speaker 2 48:45

I have no idea that is such a great surprise question because I'm genuinely flummoxed . I don't know it would be something to do with money and some sort of wake up call or , you know , call to arms to help people . You know , one thing that I haven't said so far that I just think is so important is and the reason why I'm so passionate about people connecting with money is , I think when you can master your money and you have full kind of understanding of it , it opens so many doors for you . It gives you so much opportunity and freedom and choice that you just don't have when you're stuck .

Speaker 2 49:22

So many people are stuck in relationships because of money . They're stuck in jobs they hate because they don't believe there's another alternative out there for them . So I think something on that billboard that helped people connect with this idea that it's actually not that hard . You know , when I was younger , I used to think that being rich or understanding money was something for really smart people and understanding that it's actually not that hard . And rich people and smart people are actually just like you and me . They just have access to different education that helps them do these things . Yeah . Different tools yeah , yeah , something that helped people realise that would be great .

Speaker 3 49:57

So how about ? Money equals success , money equals choice , money equals freedom , money equals opportunity . Go be the author of your own money story . Yes , I love it . I love it . Thanks so much , Sarah . Thank you .

Speaker 1 50:15

Thanks for listening to the Secrets of Successful Business podcast . For more information on all things business , head to flossycomau and make sure you hit subscribe on the show so you don't miss another new episode . If you're enjoying the show , please give it a quick rating or review , share it on your socials or with friends who might enjoy it . Catch you next time .