Episode 67 - Tumour Humour with Miles Jupp

Serious illness is a serious business. That’s why so many of us are determined to raise awareness of the urgent need to fund research to find more effective treatments, and for every patient – no matter where they live – to have access to the best possible care. 

But people have told us that, in some circumstances, trying to find something to laugh about in a situation – usually dark humour – can have its place as a coping mechanism.

The podcasts The Dead Sibling Society and The GlioBabes, and books like 'Pear-Shaped' by Adam Blain, and 'A Heart That Works' by actor Rob Delaney all feature a sprinkling of funniness amid the rage and despair. There's even a  Comedy Cures Foundation. 

We discuss this with our supporter, the actor and comedian Miles Jupp. He explains how putting his meningioma diagnosis in the spotlight during his stand up tour helped both him and others. And podcast co-host Andy says he wishes he'd heard an episode like this when he was first navigating the same diagnosis. 

If you or someone you know needs a listening ear, you can contact our Support Team by calling 0808 800 0004, by using the web chat on our website or by emailing support@thebraintumourcharity.org

If you have any questions about this episode of the podcast, email podcast@thebraintumourcharity.org

Transcript

INTRO - Miles: And then a few weeks later I was doing the show in Leamington Spa and the person that had sent that message was at the stage door and was now the other side of surgery and I thought, that's great actually, that that sort of connection exists.

ANDY: Welcome everyone to the Let's Talk About Brain Tumours podcast, on behalf of The Brain Tumour Charity. Today we're talking about 'tumour humour'! Have you ever wondered whether it's OK to laugh at illness? Maybe your loved one gave your tumour a funny name or something happened in the hospital that was observed and that you found funny. Today we're exploring the role that humour can play in navigating some of life's toughest challenges. And if anyone can steer us through this interesting, heavy but funny subject it's our guest today. Our supporter: the comedian, TV show panellist and radio panellist I believe, and all round good guy Miles Jupp. He joins us to talk about how he turned his brain tumour diagnosis and treatment and found enough comedy in it to actually do a stand up tour called 'On I Bang!' I believe that's what it was called. So today it's about .... Can laughter really be the best medicine? And are there any boundaries to tumour humour. So Miles yeah welcome to the podcast. Thank you for giving us your valuable time. How was the tour? I hear it was a roaring success.

MILES: Thank you. Well it was yeah it was fun and it was a nice I mean sometimes when you're doing stand up and probably the next show I do it's, you know, hopefully you can theme it. But it may indeed be a sort of collection of stuff whereas something like this was telling a a kind of story from beginning to end so you can tell the story of this sort of health experience in this instance that I'd been through and then you can sort of that's that's the tree and then and then the jokes are the baubles that you're hanging off it I suppose I I wrote basically when I first so I had my first well the only symptom was having a seizure which I had in August of 2021 and I had nothing up into that point and then when I sort of finally came round I came round on the floor and then in an ambulance and then in A&E ward. You know all that was a big blur and I couldn't you know they've been given bits of information the next time you wake up you're in a different room and there's a different doctor. So I'd started writing stuff down really just not writing jokes but just writing what happened to try and get it sort of straight in my head because observing what was happening sort of thing yeah there's rooms you think was I in that room for half an hour or two days or whatever it might be it's very hard to get that kind of get the chronology sorted her head so I then sort of broke down essentially everything that had that had happened from ultimately from from seizure to to coming home after brain surgery and that was I guess sort of quite a lengthy document and that was something that I would just sort of go away on and work on I thought it would could well become something I didn't I didn't know know what necessarily you know could have been a book could it be a book who knows but the I just wanted to get sort of wanted to get it down from me and that people say oh is that very cathartic and I so catharsis never really came into it at that point I just thought I just sort of wanted to be clear for me what happened but it meant I did then have a sort of a lengthy document and then eventually quite a while later I guess I thought how I could turn that I could turn that into a show that's what I that's what I could do with it you know people go through experiences like this and then just go straight back to to work and their work being an environment in which this wouldn't have to be mentioned you know if your work has some sort of front facing aspect to it and then you tell people about this sort of thing then yeah maybe it comes it comes up more but not I mean I bump into people that I knew well before and since that are unaware of it because I you know happened to read a newspaper article or soon you want to show talking about it or whatever else is going on in their in their lives but it's the scary thing is is choosing to put something like this out there I suppose because then it comes up then it becomes a thing for a while. I spoke to a friend of mine who'd done a show about recovering from cancer and I said are you going to do more dates next year and he goes no I don't want to I don't want to be the person that just talks about that. I've done that now and I want to carry on that's sort of why you have treatment isn't it? To go back to how you were I mean it's also a good opportunity to think do I like everything about the way I was before it's an interesting it kind of it forces you I guess to stop and just take stock of everything doesn't it well there's a lot of time in which you only have the energy to think and that's awful really because you can't necessarily distract yourself and so you know that's a lot of time a lot of it alone where you're just sort of reflecting I mean I found reading was a really good distraction I don't think I've ever read so much that when I read cash 22 in three days I had it on my shelf since university always got about 12 pages into it and I just absolutely yomped through it in in three days and that was because it's a way of spending time inside your head but without thinking about the other things that are currently inside your head.

ANDY: I, can  just ask, so you had a meningioma didn't you? And what grade?

MILES: Grade one, I think.

ANDY: Did you say you went from nothing to diagnosis and then surgery? Did you come home at all in the meantime?

MILES: Yeah I came home in the middle so I I had not of the operation that would be that would be demented but between you know obviously you've got to wait to find out when the operation would be. So I was working in London I had a seizure and I would say I really was unaware of any symptoms at all. If I look back over the week before anything like that but just the the minutes before the seizure I had a sort of flashing in my left eye that just  wouldn't go away and I thought was very strange and then the kaleidoscope sort of round the edge. That that was the sort of the final moment and the sort of show I would just I described it as like you know like a stained glass window shattering just everything coming into small bits. But until that point it was just a just there.

ANDY: I think that can be quite common because I sometimes get that as well I call it like a kaleidoscope we have flashing lights around the edge yeah so it's it's initially self putting but after a while you realise that it does happen occasion doesn't mean anything else is happening but obviously in your case it was a well literally a flashing sign?

MILES: Yeah it did it was but it was a sort of you know it's quite late for the warning lights to come on but then I can just remember I knew very quickly that something was quite seriously wrong and they put me on a chair and then I just remember the ground coming towards me and knowing that I couldn't do anything about it really. So I would have then eventually come around in an ambulance and then once they've sort of stabilised you then you go off to A&E wait outside A&E until there's a you know a bay that has a free bed in A&E and then you know so each time you come around you're somewhere slightly different but slightly with them sort of overlapping aspects to it which adds to the sense of total time confusion and then I guess at that point they must have taken me off for some scans and eventually come back and said there's there's something in there we don't know what it is. Even at that stage they said yeah they're not nice words to hear in hospital but it doesn't it doesn't look too bad but they've obviously seen more of this sort of stuff than I have. So I did have one point when I was moved to room it was just just me in the room and that was intimidating. I thought why is this this happening and I guess that was the room in which I lay wondering whether the growth I had was benign or malignant. I don't know how long I was there for but I do remember that being yeah terrifying really. I mean you can wait for the results of an exam or a test or you know anything, and I've got you know a sort of Daliesque stretching of time in that. I don't know how long I was waiting for that.

ANDY: I can sympathise because I was told I had a large cranial mass and then he said we think you've got a meningioma and he said it's not good but if you're going to get one that's the one to get. I'm like well how do I take that information when that's the first thing I've known about a brain tumour or large cranial mass? And then every time in the next couple of days I was seen by a different doctor or physician they kept using the word large and I thought that's not good in a hospital environment!

MILES: Yes could large be in brackets at the end maybe? I was going to say what does that mean subcategory rather than yes because you think well how much of this is is sort of euphemism and how much of this is just medical the most useful shorthand medical language I mean I found each time I wake woke up there'd be sort of different people that have been a different bit of the hospital and sometimes I'd reference the doctor and they'd say I sorry I don't know who that is you know what it's the guy I was talking to now honestly he doesn't he doesn't work on this bit of the hospital and that bit I would find really you question your sanity a bit then just yeah well I do constantly but yeah that was the that's the sort of disorientating aspect of it and then once they'd established presumably through MRI that it was a meningioma yeah that you would need to have removed because obviously just exist its existence that causes pressure and then it's more swelling. The swelling happens in order to kind of cushion the pressure but then that cushioning itself builds up and up and up and then eventually you know the seizure is is sort of like an electrical storm and yeah because there's different pathways for the electricity to connect with the brain isn't it and it's a sort of a massive a sort of massive moment really you know you're you're in that you're you're basically reset have you had any since out of interest no OK no I've never had enough I mean I've been on lever I have to say this word once a week and I can never luckily they're always in my pockets leverteracetam I've been on two of those a day since since the seizure actually but I've never had yeah I've not had one since or felt I was going to have one really so touch wood and so forth it's 4 where are we now 26 oddly so it will be nearly five years I suppose soon but yeah then I went home expecting knowing that at some point I was going to be called in to have brain surgery a craniotomy to remove it but they didn't know when that might be you know so you just think I'll just go home to try and get on with life were you on steroids when you went home yeah it must have been for the first I remember having a sort of chart they'd drawn from which had so many different pills on or whatever there was an alarm going on on my phone off on my phone for two hours I think which was this one and I did actually have to go went to boots and bought one of those pill things which is you know Oh yeah Monday to Sunday and your morning pill you know because there was just so many and I thought you know I just had them all different box in a plastic bag and after a while I thought this is you know this isn't accounting they need to take this seriously so I I you know went and got the the pill box I think because steroids reduce the swelling a lot don't they yes yes so I actually ended up having the surgery only about 3 weeks later which is extremely lucky they said it could be a month it could be 6 months you know all these different any I mean it's how long as a piece of string and this is during covert as well so the NHS is already under significant strain I that that's the period when you when you're walking around knowing that you've got a brain tumour and not knowing when the next stage will be that's before you've even sort of started to think in your head to how terrifying will the next bit be and what are the what are the possible outcomes so where is the humour in this this just taking a these are the bare facts of it and that's the sort of stuff that you've got to to reconcile with and if you've got a relative who's going going through this or you're going through it to yourself they use the sort of questions that you you find yourself asking yourself the absolute these periods and they're quite frightening actually if you turn out to be a control freak and I didn't think I was and then and then suddenly something so out of your control happens you may it may turn out that you are but just having that sort of level of uncertainty I as I'm lucky in a way that I have a job that involves continual uncertainty and you know you go to auditions and then you wait a long time to say yes or no and then you get the schedule and you're in it quite a lot or you're not in it as much as you thought it might be or that month has changed and they've lost a location and or can you get on a train tomorrow and come to Bonnie Rigg because we found a good location or whatever it might be that that sort of uncertainty is there all the time and I'm I'm kind of used to that but even even I found this level of uncertainty really difficult and I think if people are living in a very organised sort of way and the sort of people that like come home from holiday and book the next and they're like oh we take a week which is most people to be fair is that most people right I'm yes I'm often amazed when people turn out to be free or not free I mean I you know someone said well it's a bank holiday they might have I would have had no idea yeah but for the most people who work 9:00 to 5:00 that's you're acutely aware of that and to this level of uncertainty I don't know I don't know what I would have been I didn't have anything to do necessarily in that. I got a couple of acting jobs that were lined up but I was on in between seizure and operation I was uninsurable so I couldn't I couldn't go and do those but I'd said to the surgeon I've got some before I'd discovered I wouldn't be able to be insured I'd said to him would I be able to do these jobs and he was going well how long after surgery I was saying oh you know a couple of weeks and he said well you'd need I mean would they be able to put your lines on a big board for you and I was it's not really it's not really how it works and I thought and then I that made me I mean he was looking for a solution whereas I was thinking oh I kind of thought I'd be back to to normal fairly fairly quickly and I suppose that the exhaustion is is the thing that I don't think maybe I got a little bit of COVID at the beginning but I of the when the pandemic first started I then didn't get it properly until July June or July 22 so after and that that absolutely knocked me sideways that felt I felt more exhausted after that than I did after the brain surgery but I don't know that was because I was sort of fundamentally weakened in some way but the the sort of exhaustion aspect of it is really debilitating and I kind of sort of slept I would sleep loads and I would reload and I would do I would get up and walk how long did that last would you say after surgery roughly just because I presume you you're not like that now no no but I did it was quite a long time but I would you know I would nap a lot in the in the day I would do I started working again after about six weeks so the surgery and then if this was for you I went in on the Tuesday had the surgery on the Wednesday came home on the the Friday that that's the period where you're on the steroids probably for two weeks and I came out of hospital absolutely high and you survived as well which is yeah you've survived you've got this enormous sense of relief and then also but of course you don't realise at the time part of that sense of relief is just it's just the steroids and then that course stops and then you suddenly reflect on life and the sort of fear comes back I did so about six weeks later I was there my friend Frankie Boyle had a show new world order and that by then we would record them up in Glasgow so I would go and do 1 episode a week and I would get the slowly get the train up I live in South Wales so have a lot of time to write and read on the train and I would do the show I didn't tell anyone there apart from Frankie that any of this had happened I had to get a sort of I'd said to the floor manager there's a tab that I need to take at 8:00 can you just give me a give me a nod from the wings or whatever but otherwise but I would do that and I think performed hopefully reasonably near capacity but then I would come home and I would be zonked for two absolutely zonked for two days but it was for a long period after the surgery I mean 18 months two years you'd do something and it would be the first time that you've done it since before the operation and I kept thinking would this be the one it turns out I can't do and that could be extraordinary number of things that you know you can't drive obviously for ages but then other things you know you take the children to the fairground and you think should I can I do the dodgems I don't know about you know yeah I know what you mean yeah I'm not doing the waltzer again I'll tell you that much it took me a couple of years to go back on the the roller coasters but I do yeah I have now yeah but I do still go back on the well I went on one I took my daughter and some of her friends to Brighton for her birthday and my daughter wanted to go on the roller coaster for the pier and her friends were not sure about it so I said no it's fine I'll go and then I was strapped in then I thought oh gosh I was looking at it we're going to loop the loop and stuff and I thought gosh I haven't been on a roller coaster stuff yeah goodness what will this be like and then a lady about my age was coming off and I said sorry can I just ask what's this like oh honestly it's absolutely fine and I thought oh thank goodness and then she said I mean there is one bit where you hit your head quite hard and I thought Oh no this is I've chosen that to think the worst thing but doing it genuinely you know you're just out on a day out doing something fun but actually it's genuinely giving you sort of confidence yes yeah this is you know you're sort of reassimilating yourself back into to to real life it's flying as well the first time I went flying which is about for me about a year after isn't it was that was it felt almost like a release that I wasn't trapped in anymore I could get out and about and travel and that for me was a massive right life can always carry on there yeah those those things are really really important actually and they may look from the outside like little things but it's just doing something even the first time you go out shopping on your own you get you know I'll take an empty bag I'll walk down the High Street I'll get some things I'll come back and you come back and think oh I got you know it's just a building a kind of degree of of independence I I suppose or can I yeah yeah you know walk I used to this sounds well mad in a way but when I sort of first happened and I kept thinking am I going to get more I would get the showers up on the floor where the children's bedroom was and I would say guys I'm going to have a shower I'm going to leave the door unlocked if I haven't come out of the shower in like 10 minutes would you check that yeah I'm OK just mad responsibility to be to be to be giving up yeah but I kind of thought I don't I I felt it's not and it's not fair on them but I didn't feel safe going in and I you know they were probably getting on with whatever they're doing and then after 7 minutes I go I'm out of the shower everyone relax I'm out of the shower and they think Oh yes he's in the shower I'd quite forgotten that he told me about that yeah but those little things like that we'd we'd be nervous or you know when I well how was your vision after your surgery because I had obviously there's so much swelling after the surgery I was actually OK because mine was at top so I was OK didn't affect my optic system mine was sort of back right and it so on the left hand side I had lost when I first came round a decent chunk actually of peripheral vision that must have been were you warned that might have happened or was that just like so but there's a lot of paperwork and you can't you can't read everything yeah that's true I skipped to the end where the the probabilities were written out in black and white of the various outcomes quite large numbers unfortunately yeah so then I but also the width of the eyes what we see that's obviously our brain putting together a composite image based on the information coming through two eyes yes yeah and rather than it being a picture that exists in sort of fact so I would have this thing where there were holes in the vision of my left hand side but my brain would knit it all together I remember walking down a pedestrianised street with my children and I asking where one of them where he was and he said I'm right here and this noise was coming from within the middle of my field of vision I just couldn't see him there wasn't there wasn't a hole there wasn't a hole in the vision there it had just knitted it all together and that I thought that was sort of quite terrifying and they're mercifully that that passes and these are like just the little practical aspects of life I mean the big thing is how bad is this news how if it's bad Oh my goodness I've got to tell people yeah I've got to tell my phone that's that's really frightening and in the way and when I did the show I those bits rather than joke about them I I'd say by that you know it might be between two sort of funny bits because when you go to hospital of course it's just indignity upon indignity. Yes yes inevitably you're you know you're wearing you spend most of the time running around something that doesn't really do up at the back and you're in that's you know that's the sort of starting point yes it's yeah and then so but the serious bits I would actually just leave them as they were by the way this is how I felt at this point effectively because that's an important part of the journey it's not just where am I geographically mentally what are you thinking because those were the sort of when I told people what had happened those are the things they'd ask for what's happened what's the procedure but also how do you feel what's that like for your family and those are the terrifying bits and I I kind of think in a way that's sort of where you can stick the jokes between the terrifying bits to relieve the terrifying bits or to make a terrifying bit sort of more impactful without sounding like sort of merciless you know if you're doing something funny and then you deliver them with a hard bit of news you know there was some bit in the show where I was describing I can't now remember I only did a couple of months ago but when you you know you're describing something sort of funny and silly and then the next thing the doctor says is this could be part of a bigger tumour we need to do another scan on you but that but also that is the order in which which things are happening and that's where your your brain is shooting off in all these sort of different areas in in terms of where where you think so writing a show about it really was I did want to communicate really what happened what happened from my my perspective what it is like to go through something like this and I wanted there to be you know to to be jokes because bits of that that thing are funny but I did really want to tell the story as it happened that then puts you in a kind of emotional place where the different sort of jokes and stories can have different resonances but oddly I when I decided that the thing that I'd written down I would turn into a kind of stand up show I just sort of thought and then I've got you know creating myself some work I can go out and I do that. And I like being on tour I hadn't really thought about it in terms of I then sort of went into show mode what's the best way to make this work what's the best joke there how do we do this should I perform this bit differently you've got you've gone into a sort of different mode of thinking so in a way I stopped but the point it turned into a stand up show I stopped thinking about its content as anything other than you know sort of theatrical entertainment and then the first when I first sort of had it as this long document I went out and did a sort of Dickensesque sort of lecture tour of it I suppose where I just take this big document hot off the printer pop it on a lectern and read it out. And the very first one I did, I got an e-mail afterwards forwarded to me and the gentleman that had been in the audience who'd gone - it was just billed as you know work in progress who didn't say anything about what the show was about - and he said the show started and then all the friends of mine around me became extremely anxious on my behalf because this happened to me a year ago. But it was really cathartic for me and I'd never met anyone else, never heard anyone else describing going through this.

ANDY: Because I was going to ask what what in terms of the reaction to the material especially people who weren't necessarily aware that what material it was about could you can you sense that the audience going is he joking about a brain tumour or did they just by the time you're you're out on tour people largely know what what it is that you're yeah that you're talking about that's what the you know in the programme it says this person who's been in this things has experienced this and is talking about it so most people would be aware of what they were what they were coming to I suppose and for some people that is the reason that they would come to it they're more into tumours than they are me for instance yeah a new audience perhaps yeah yeah so but until I got the e-mail from that man and then I thought well that's interesting because I've not until I got his e-mail I then hadn't been in contact with anyone else who had been through the same true yes yes I don't know why this because I suppose I was just going into sort of show mode that that aspect of it completely slipped my attention that there would then there'd be people coming to whom this might have a particular resonance and actually that became a pit of the show that I really sort of enjoyed I wanted to be really brave and say look if you've been through this let's all meet up in the foyer afterwards and then you know say you're in Leeds somebody else lives there might be two people that have had the similar thing and they live near each other and they can it's a good opportunity to talk you know because that sort of network work doesn't necessarily exist but I would be at the stage door and there might be someone there who had been through a similar thing or whose partner had or you know whose children had or his whose parents had and I found that I was really willing to talk to those people about it and I found it really really interesting and helpful I hope they did too was that was that helpful in sense of almost validating your experiences and what you're going through or was it more helpful because you knew you were helping them or was it both I sort of felt they were helping me as well because I hadn't you know I hadn't spoken to people like that and I would find we could just have a sort of you know you just discuss aspects of treatments and did you feel like this and did this happen and that sort of thing and I that I thought was really useful because you don't yeah you're not dropped into a situation often where you're meeting lots of other even on the ward at the time you know people are at different stages of recovery some pre surgery some after surgery people are absolutely sort of zonked out on their their medication you're not you don't really and then suddenly you're back out on a normal street with your rucksack on and the world's been carrying on and there's traffic going past and you think but I've just had brain surgery and the world the world hasn't changed and it's really odd and you think how am I allowed you know when you first bring your children home from hospital you think how are they are we allowed to do this yet this seems mad they're tiny and yet they're saying go home and then here you are you've had sort of brain surgery you've got a no supervision is there you're just kind of let out and my honesty is get on with life again should I tell you know when I go into a shop should I tell people what's happened to me before I buy something and of course there you just is that shouldn't wouldn't that be sensible to that I'm not going to know what they're dealing with but of course no the world goes on all the time and then you think I mean all the time you walk down the streets and there's people and you don't know what's going on in anyone's life or or whatever I remember being in just in the service station on the way home a friend had come to give me a lift home and we stopped and I was just sort of standing in WH Smith's trying to choose between sort of revels and a kit cat and I thought what a luxury this is this is having brain surgery two or three days ago and now I'm yeah it's quite bizarre actually doing something completely normal and finding that normal thing tremendously exciting really because those are the and those are little tiny things that would not normally you wouldn't think about suddenly a sort of really nice pinpricks of of delightful yeah it's it's not it's I found that with myself it was more when I went out with my mum and dad like for a meal before my hair grew back because half my hair was off I used to wear a baseball cap and I remember going to the to a restaurant and I took my baseball cap off and my mum says oh Andy do you want do you want everyone to know that you your people might talk you know and I thought I don't mind mum yeah funnily enough no one really mentioned it the you got the odd look and people go a bit of curiosity maybe a bit of sympathy but no one they're just all right and then they carry on with their lives if you it kind of made me realise that in my world it's massive I'm sitting there with half my head exposed and I've just had brain surgery a few and for most of the people it's like Oh yeah crack on I've got my own problems so you know yes get on with it almost which was great I'm just trying to order soup yeah So what is your stick I did but I found I didn't want to tell people immediately partly because you know I thought it would take a while to know how one really was you might get good medical news but then you think yeah but does that what they call good medical news is that would that be what I call good medical news you don't want to tell people that you're fine if it turns out you're not you don't want to tell people it's really bad if it turns out it isn't and you also want life to sort of go back to normal again so I was quite sort of secretive not do I mean secretive it was June COVID so one wasn't all sort of we weren't all exactly meeting people much then I guess but I was sort of discreet about it and I you know told a few people and I would if someone found out that I hadn't told I would genuinely believe it and I would rather when they'd ask me how I was and I'd be like no how do you know which seems impolite but for whatever reason at that time it sort of bothered me because you sort of what once it's somebody else talking about it it's not your it's not your story so and it's out of your control again I guess isn't it yeah and it could be exaggerated or or or the opposite do you think that's because of you being in the public eye so much or just is that a mild jump thing that you wanted to a little bit I suppose no I'm so generally quite discreet but a little bit of that you think I well I remember a friend of mine who's quite I'll towards the end of his life and he says well of course I can't tell anyone because you know in this business if you tell people you're unwell they already think you're dead so I'd quite nice to go back to work friendly that sort of maybe was in my head a little bit but also I didn't you know I've got lots of children they're going to school we live in a small town you want people to be able to get on with their lives and you don't you want other people not to be reminded of it as well as the thing so you know my my parents and my brother for instance they you know I'd said can you I'm not I don't want to tell anyone about it for for a while which they were absolutely fine with but then someone would come up to them and say I heard and that would be puts them in well why would you want that it puts them in an awkward position but also it might be at a point when they've like they don't want to be thinking about it they they think well it's you know I'll give him a ring this evening but I want to just you know yeah I want to go down Sainsbury's and do some shopping without that yeah without that big being there and that sort of thing I found it's amazing and this is true of course in all I'm in a career where people talk about people and each other and stuff all the time but I did find it amazing what some people's response to please can you not tell anybody about this what they understand by that does not seem to be the words please can you not tell anybody about oh really I think what they think it must be is well presumably it's sort of what it means is look it's entirely at your discretion whether you tell people or not and by all means don't fill them in on all the information just give a sort of vague impression and let them guess and see what happens that seemed to me to be what people understood by that phrase so you know lesson learned but then ultimately when 1 you know you do a show about it then you're like then you're saying look here it is his yeah this is what's I saw a clip of you on on Lorraine I think it was talking about yes cool was that a quite a big moment because was that the first time you'd really sort of gone on national TV and told everyone you had a brain tumour just I don't know if it was I did yeah I can't remember what order those sort of things happened then I suppose I'd done a few I did an interview with the times Dominic Maxwell that was probably quite a thing and that was round about the time the tour was announced so that those sort of things it's they're all things reaching different audiences and I I guess I might already have been doing the show for six months or whatever by the time did Lorraine but yeah something like that going on her show you do think and in your head you're thinking I must remember I've got to do that in the morning but then when you're on it and you suddenly think oh that's what you're talking about yes it is it is quite big but I I guess I mean I just hope that you're you go on these things because you're you know you're PR person you know you've got on these things to sell tickets for a for a show that's the kind of commercial aspect of it part of the job I guess but while you're there hopefully if it's something that's particularly you know that has a resonance for people then it's a good opportunity to talk about it and I I did a show it's called the last leg which is live yeah I think entirely so that they can respond to texts or tweets and when I was on that talking about the show 1 of the texts in was someone saying I'm having brain surgery next week how should I feel about it oh wow yeah and I'd said well you know or I'm very frightened should I be and I was saying well you know you should yeah that's that seems to me to be absolutely the right thing to feel but also allow yourself to know that you're putting your putting yourself in the hands of of absolutely experts do it every day and people who actively want to do this thing because it's the best thing yeah for you and then a few weeks later I was doing the showing them Leamington Spa and the person that had sent that message was at the stage door oh wow and was now the other side of I lost crane surgery and I thought that's great actually that that's and that that that sort of connection exists that's amazing that we'll live with them as well forever when I was feeling a bit scared before my surgery my daughter she was 17 at the time very empathetic she said it's all right for you dad I said why is that actually well you'll be asleep so if you don't wake up you'll never know we're the ones that have to live through it and that in a way actually helped me be less scared because I thought she's got a point actually why am I still at surgery when I'm not going to feel anything I'm not even going to be awake you're you're out of control yes if it all goes probably it actually weirdly it actually helps me but yeah you'll be the last to know yes I because I had to say I'd gone in hospital and I'd so I basically wrote a list on a piece of paper for my wife and said right if you tell this person they're they'll keep these people updated and if you tell this person they'll tell these people it's been updated work so it's about 5 people she had to get in touch with and then then the people that needed to you know different friend groups or whatever or one of my agents could tell my other agents or you know those sorts of those sorts of things and it's a common problem that we all have it is it's out there isn't it it's what we yes I imagine that's why it was so gloomy about at the moment it's just the sheer sheer admin involved and I and then I was going to have my operation at 8 O clock in the morning there was some emergency had happened so it actually didn't happen to 1 so the operation was going to be out of interest mine was exactly the same it was meant to be first thing that went down about lunchtime and yes it's exactly it's exactly that and of course that's totally out of your control and my surgeon one of my surgeons rang my wife during the operation to say how it was going and all that sort of stuff and then was in touch thereafter it'd come around but by that point I would have been coming round at about about 2:00 if I'd gone in when I meant to but actually I was only going down at 1:00 so then I wouldn't sort of come out till 8 or 9 and that for me I'm just thinking what people would get to know when they know but for for other people my parents were saying recently then that was a long day you know that's actually pretty much it's got till about 8 in the evening before you've heard how something that you went in or they were concerned at 8:00 you know this is taking a while and of course all of that that one's blissfully unaware of it it I'll tell my my one sort of come back to humour a little bit hopefully was I'd sort of exactly the same situation so I'd back up on the wardish like about 8:00 and by 10:00 I felt in the evening I felt pretty much OK and I was I thought well I'll text and it's funny because I joked with my kids who are teenagers that if you're in a coma for a while you can come out talking a different language yeah so I we joked about me talking Mandarin after my operation and the first text I sent to anyone was was a text to my 3 kids it was just a lot of Chinese and they they said that's the best text they've ever received AI was alive and BI was still me they just thought that was superb so it's but yeah for them it was a very long day it is also a fear that you'll you'll come out different that's a that's a real fear that's a common fear yeah yeah isn't it is this going to change my personality and some people might think well yeah hopefully but for other people you know it's it's what's how how different are you and that's kind of but I remember being on my on my ward there was a man that nurses were talking to and he was explaining no I just really really really really want to get back to the the life that I yes had before and he was very upset about it and but they and the nurse said that that's what we want and I that is yeah that is the purpose of it that's why why they're saying you need to have this surgery that's why they want to do the the the surgery that's that it's it's to be better again and to live to live life dare I say coming back to the to the topic in hand in a way as well as why do you think humour is so good allowing us to cope in what can be some of the most difficult situations you can possibly imagine when people's lives are at threat and yet humour seems to really help I think The thing is because laughter is an involuntary response it means that one it's if someone rationally explains to you why you shouldn't worry about something they may be making perfect sense and put together an absolutely crystalline argument that you then you follow and think yes you're right I know logically it doesn't make sense for me to worry but I am worrying it doesn't seem to have changed it if somebody says something funny and you laughter and you laugh for that moment you are not you're not worrying you're just laughing and that's just happened so it's a kind of it bypasses all the reason a bit like comedy comes in it's almost like it's no different way in a pain reflex isn't it put your hand under the yeah your hand moves and then you realise it's then you realise it's hot you've already pulled your hand out of the way and I suppose that's what laughter is like and you can laugh really hard at something and go oh gosh I shouldn't be laughing about that but you've already done the laughing it's already happened and you did it involuntary it was an instinctive reaction so I think that's one of the reasons is the actual just the fact that it's when people say oh you know someone who introduced a sort of helpless laughter you think well that's that's real laughter it's proper laughter yeah yeah yeah yeah if you say oh the audience was sort of generally sort of massaged into and persuaded to laugh you think well maybe it wasn't maybe that I used to think when I was chairing the news quiz sometimes the audiences you know might laugh at something that someone had said and that would eventually sort of turn into applause and that's that's that's great but I would say to the editor if people applaud before without the laugh to happen it means that what's happened is is not funny somebody's made a good point but it hasn't been it hasn't been a joke yeah yeah and I think that that's really a lot of what it's about I think that's a very that sort of you know soldiers on the front line I dare say goodness knows the sort of jokes that the surgeons are making while they're doing the thing I mean yes probably that's we don't know yeah laughter is it and making jokes and laughter are you know of course they're coping mechanisms and we need coping mechanisms I mean you think sometimes if you're the sort of person that makes jokes people think it's because you don't take things seriously I mean some people's coping mechanism is to make everyone else around them stressed and then they might that that's a that's a poor team person but other people go well you know it's because they really care about the job and you think well maybe the person making jokes also really cares about what they're doing and their way of dealing with the stress is to make jokes or to laugh at jokes that other people are making they get sort of categorised differently but coping mechanisms are sort of absolutely you know vital some people are very quiet as a way of coping some people are very loud some people go for walks some people you know sort of curl up into a ball and it's it is just one of those coping mechanisms some people would sort of read a load of philosophy wouldn't they after something like that and think I just need to I need to sort of Live a more epicurean life or more stoical life it's just whatever your actual coping mechanisms you're just using them on a on a bigger stage for a sort of big event it's got it's got to be a bigger version of my usual coping mechanism to cope with a bigger event it's I mean that's really I'm in a normal terms it's really useful for people to hear because everyone's coping mechanism will be unique to them and there's no right or wrong so I I've sometimes when I because I tend to find things funny because it to me it makes things less scary if I can laugh about it yeah so it just it helps me but I know there are other people that go oh should you be laughing about that that's a really difficult subject and it's useful putting it like you did it's it's a coping mechanism so also if you're laughing about a subject that means it has been talked about yes it's out in the open a bit more and it's not you know somebody might make a joke about something and someone else says why why are you talking about that and you think well why are you joking about that you think well it's one of the ways of talking about something and it brings it you know then then you can have the comment why shouldn't you why shouldn't you laugh about about that then you're having a conversation about about the thing so it's actually brought that brought that to the surface I mean I think with laughter for me and maybe this is the same for you I mean I get associated with sort of laughing because a lot of the programmes I'm on are comedy programmes but all all my emotions are as equally close to the surface that's just what I but I'm on a show where everyone around me is you know saying funny things so I'm going to laugh if I was on if they if they started doing panel shows that were about grief you know then I they'd be like why they put that bloke he never speaks he just cries you think well that's yeah it's the same it's the same thing but it but there's no idea yeah I wonder well yeah I mean a Commission so few panel shows at the moment I think one that was slowly based on making people cry would it would I mean it would have a point of difference but I can I can I can see them wondering if it was the best I see them like something like grief island or something like that 10 celebrities on swimwear compare stories of shocking trauma yes exactly yeah Oh dear well that kind of answers because I was going to one of the questions was going to be is to be your ideal show and that's yeah it was everything we shouldn't be laughing about but I guess not because it's it's whatever people's coping mechanisms well it's laughing about laughing about and laughing at are totally sort of different they're yeah they might seem the same thing but they're they're they're different things aren't they or sometimes you know an event might be the setting of a joke rather than what the joke is is about whatever and that's kind of you know that sort of dry analysis it's helpful to some some degree but also it's not you know in kind of kill the thing I think the fact is that some people laughing about something is not their way of coping about it and I think that's completely and there's no right or wrong in that it's sort of valid no but I I think it's also whatever it is that you know absolutely not finding anything to laugh about is some people's that some people's coping economies being absolutely as serious or earnest about about something I mean I just happen to think that laughter is useful and so that's how you know you can write to show and go and do it in a in a theatre of people to that have come knowing that that's the sort of thing if one's going to be it you know a parents evening or a dinner party or whatever then you you then you sort of choose differently you know the kind of ideas that you're but the fact that you've done that and it's been so well received to me shows that there is a real was thirst for that kind of real life traumatic but also funny or yeah I hope so I mean really it's also a piece of sort of storytelling you know that it's it's you you can see it as a thing that's about specifically doing comedy about the experience of having brain surgery but you could also see it in sort of completely old fashioned piece of one person storytelling aspect about it and that that was the thing I really loved about it was that although you know you you sort of start slowly and you reel them in you walk out and you know 7 or 800 people in a theatre and you start you the thing you start you think this is this is you know there's an hour and 40 minutes of this we're we're this is a that that bits nervous in cricketing terms you start on naughty every time and then you know when you get and you've done you know get to the end of the second-half you think well I've taken hopefully taken people on on a on a journey and as a sort of performer that aspect of it is really thrilling but then actually yeah meeting people afterwards who've been through similar situations I found that that was great and so if ever I got a message through saying well there's someone wondering if they could say hello their aunts not very well whatever it might be or they've had the same thing that I would always go and talk to them if I was able to because I just sort of found it fascinating to sort of touch base with with people in in similar circumstances or people that say I had no idea what my husband was going through or you know in a way it'd be great if I could go and see a show from the perspective of someone who's married to someone that's had brain surgery yeah I wouldn't know yeah available somewhere so that that dare say people like myself I was I was just couldn't quite make the show everyone knows you're very busy I was the my hair no yeah I will I have had it I have had it filmed I don't yet know what I'm going to do with it but if I know before when is this going out Tuesday six months I'll let I'll let you know know because one of the things is the my surgeon came to see the show the London none of the London ones and he said please I hope you're filming this I hope people will be able to to watch this and so that will be the captain I think there will be a lot of people out there that would benefit from hearing it definitely and I and I yeah well I I will I will put it out there I was going to wait to see if I was going to do any more shows a bit and I've been doing ended up doing a sort of acting job that's going to started in I don't know September and may go until August so that's I kind of feel I can't sort of saddle up again but I would like because it exists I can put it out there I went and did the show in New York for a week in in January and that that was really interesting and it was it meant that you were going to do you're not just going to do stuff you you're walking on stage to tell A to tell a story and obviously their health system is wildly different did the audiences receive it differently in America I would say I would say not I mean the show had been sort of modified to take out this sort of I mean ludicrously British references that I insist on peppering things with but so it's a bit so it's a bit shorter but they were they were fantastic and I actually I really enjoyed the time on stage there and I yeah I think I probably won't tour it again but I will do something with with the recording which is yeah I think it's it is quite a useful thing to see hopefully just to give Anna it's only my one person's perspective of course but it's it's hearing someone talking about it like you do so eloquently but also from from the heart as well I think really makes it would make it resonate more with people well I think I do try to be sort of really honest in it I mean my four of my children have seen it the older 2 came to a show in Bristol the first thing my son said was he said there's loads of that I didn't know you know because at the time we sort of were cushioning trying to protect them because you don't want them to be dwelling on that that sort of yes you know as a parent you don't want them to worry do yeah exactly but then of course clearly I hadn't managed to have those conversations in between then and then going to the show but also you think well this is hopefully this is a distillation I've the show has the information that I want people to know and understand and and take away but I did think it's now it's that bad parenting no no no you've been asking me questions and I said look it's easier if you just buy a ticket on my show OK you'll get your answers there OK rather than just you know save it me pocket money and buy a ticket for the show yeah yeah yeah no they were I did I did comp them oh there you go you know good parenting you see that's good yeah exactly and then it I mean it would be what 2-3 weeks worth of pocket money and then it started again it was actually fun no I but I did think for someone as close as that as close to me as that and as close to the event as that that actually they they would get something out of it that they were they were unaware of then then you think Oh yeah there must hopefully be stuff in there and I I think just having I just found talking to people one to one about what they'd been through or a bit about what I'd been through really interesting and really helpful and in terms of perspective I mean my goodness some of the things people I spoke to a gentleman who had a really aggressive tumour and knew that was it for him and we just sort of sat and talked about it for sort of 45 minutes and he was really calm and it wasn't resigned he was sort of reconciled I suppose and it was just absolutely fascinating to talk to him about it and about his experience and of course how if you've had like you and me the lucky ones yes yeah you know to talk to someone who's got that about of grace who's been through something worse you you marble at people out there don't you it's absolutely remarkable how do you do that yeah OK well thanks very much for your time I think we think we we focus more on tumours than humour but you've covered the board now you've you've that's that's on the Patreon special just loads of loads of jokes but sorry we've mainly been dwelling on the on the dark stuff but I I think it's just good to talk about it I think people in that situation I would love to have heard this kind of conversation when I was first told I had a brain tumour so it gives you a bit of an idea of what not just what to expect but also how you've got different coping mechanisms and how you can actually get through this yeah and how laughing about things or joking about things if that suits you it's absolutely fine so it doesn't that's that is also fine yeah that's the exactly yeah yeah so what's next for you miles I am I've been filming a series called war for sky and HBO since about September war is a legal drama and it's OK it's it's really fun I just working with people who I absolutely love so that's yeah that's fun and it's very you know doing on a bang I really enjoyed it you're but you're also on your own and I do love working as part of a team I just think that's that's a really glorious fun thing to do so I get you know I suppose I get to scratch both of those different places at different times oh sorry no no one more thing sorry my topical podcast it's called the moment with Myles jump it comes out it it drops I'm sorry to use this sort of modern language but it drops quite early on Fridays and it's simply scathing but yeah and it's available on all the usual there's certain former Princess that are taking up a little bit more bandwidth from the from the world of sounds anyway let's leave it at that before we get to it's been lovely talking to you and you and you thank you very much for having me on and good luck to everyone out there all right thanks miles take care platform drop I have all the words that one has to use in the podcast world please drop all your platforms while subscribing yeah something like that perfect well why don't we do the trail together and then you can fill in the information I can make silly remarks perfect yeah hello it's miles jump I am on the brain tumour charities podcast which Andrew remind me the name of the podcast it's let's talk about brain tumours available on all platforms all platforms platforms from one one through 6 northbound and southbound escalation 9 3/4 yes all the yeah platforms all the podcast words are involved dropping platforms content that's another one it's absolutely I mean it's just young people will love this perfect brilliant thank you so much brilliant my pleasure that's super brilliant nice to see you both take care bye bye bye bye and I would love to have heard this kind of conversation when I was first told I had a brain tumour so it gives you a bit of an idea of what not just what to expect but also how you've got different coping mechanisms and how you can actually get through this