Episode 131 - Brad Fitt

Episode 131 of the Just Imagine Podcast features pantomime writer, producer, director and dame Brad Fitt.

Host Martin Ballard chats to Brad about his lifelong love of theatre, which began with childhood visits to the pantomime at Norwich Theatre Royal, and the magical moment that inspired his career in entertainment.

Brad reflects on his journey from front-of-house usher and stage manager to becoming one of the UK’s best-loved pantomime creatives and performers. Along the way, he shares stories of working with legendary names including Christopher Biggins, Victor Spinetti and Paul Henry, and explains how a chance opportunity at Cambridge Arts Theatre led to his first pantomime script — and eventually his first appearance in a frock!

The conversation also explores the enduring traditions of pantomime, favourite titles including Dick Whittington and Mother Goose, the art of playing dame, and why pantomime continues to capture the imagination of audiences generation after generation.

A warm, funny and fascinating conversation celebrating the magic, history and heart of British pantomime.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Just Imagine, a podcast series by Imagine Theatre.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hello, how are you? This is episode 131 of the Just Imagine Podcast Series, and this time we're going to chat to a writer, producer, manager, and resident photo game at Theatre Seven Inch Cruise Break.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

For more information, go to their website at www.imagintheatre.co.com.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Now the next episode I was joined by Andrew Agnew and Simon Sladen to discuss another phantom title, Goldilocks and the Three Bears. Don't worry if you missed it though, or any of the previous episodes, because they're all still available. So make sure you check them out where you normally get your podcast from while you're there. Don't forget to subscribe to the series so that you don't miss any future episodes. So again, this time I've been joined by the man who, like so many, found his love of theatre from watching pantomime as a child. Since then, he's worked in stage management as a producer, as a writer, and as a pantomime game. Firstly, at the Cambridge Arts Theatre. And for the last 15 years, I think, at Theatre 7 in Shrewsbury. Brad Fitt, how are you? I'm very well, Martin. Thank you very much for having me. Can I just confirm it is 15 years in Shrewsbury?

SPEAKER_02 1:14

It is 15 years. This year will be my 16th year in Shrewsbury, but my 15th panto because of the year that we didn't have a panto, the COVID year. But I did do a panto-themed show that year. So uh 16 years, but 15 pantomimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

So you're out doing panto in the west, but you were born in the east and you're a Norwich boy, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Yes, born in Norwich in uh 1975. I lived there most of my life, apart from when I went to drama school in Bristol, and then after leaving Bristol went to London because that's where all the work was. But uh for the last 10-15 years I was living in Norfolk, North Norfolk, and uh just a couple of years ago we moved to Shropshire.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

So was there any influence in the family, any sort of theatre background, any other performers or anybody involved in the theatre that you knew at the time?

SPEAKER_02 2:04

No, I was I was sort of the odd one out in my family, and and nobody really knew where I'd um picked this up from. But then my father was uh uh worked in transport his whole life, my mother worked in nursing, and there was no immediate family members that worked in theatre, but then I discovered my I think it was my great-grandfather's brother. Uh I found a program of the Norwich Hippodrome, which is no longer there. It used to be opposite where the theatre all is now. There used to be a theatre called the Norwich Hippodrome, and that was run years and years ago by Bostok and Fit. Bosstock was a a sort of circus man, and Fit was my, I believe, my great grandfather's brother, so genealogists will be able to tell me who that is. My great-great uncle, maybe. I don't I've no idea. So there was a bit of theatre management in the family, but a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

So as a child, do you remember going to the Theatre Royal to see Panto?

SPEAKER_02 3:00

I do. It was my first um yeah, you touched on it there on the introduction. I think for so many of us that work in Pantomime now, it's that first visit to the pantomime that sort of cements that love. And I think a pantomime was the first thing I'd ever seen at the theatre. I still remember it, and in fact, I I wrote about it in that year that we didn't do pantomime because of COVID. I did a uh sort of a one-man, one musical director show. A bit about the history of pantomime and a bit about what you need to make a good pantomime. And I talked about that first visit, which was at the Theatre of Norwich. I remember getting home from school and parents telling me that we were going to the theatre that I had to have a lie down because it was going to be a late night. The Theatre Royal before it closed down and it was refurbished in the nineties. So this would have been, gosh, probably 1980, 81, something like that, and it was Cinderella. And I remember going in and, you know, the auditorium, the b the biggest room I'd ever been in. You know, you go into these huge cavernous auditoriums and it was all gold and red and wands wings, tiaras, badges, all that sort of stuff going on, and um and then the overture starting. I remember just standing up and holding onto the back of the seat in front of me, thinking this is the most magical thing I'd ever seen. Curtain went out and it was um, as I say, Cinderella, and we had the fairy. I can't remember who the fairy was, but uh I remember the opening number and the doors to Hardup Hall opening at the back of the stage after this big number. It was probably London is London, and there was dry ice coming through the doors of Hardup Hall and and there coming through the dry ice was Benny from Crossroads. It was playing um Buttons, Paul Henry, who was huge at the time, and I think he did a few pantomimes for Dick Condon, who used to run the theatre of Norwich back then.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

And was he wearing his woolly hat?

SPEAKER_02 4:53

He was I I I think so. I remember I still have a badge. I have a make-up tin that sits in my on my desk now or my dressing room, and uh I still have the badge with a picture of Benny that says I loves your cinders, and that's still in my um my makeup box.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

For anybody who isn't old enough to remember, um Paul played a character in a very long-running soap called Crossroads. He played a character called Benny, who uh had a bit of a soft spot for Miss Diane, and I guess in the panto, that's the sort of relationship he would have had with Cinderella.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Absolutely, yeah. It sort of came full circle. When I was writing that show, I called it uh we'll have to do it again then, and it was put on at the Theatre 7 because they couldn't do it pantomime and they had to do everything socially distanced and everything. And I I wrote uh a little bit about my first introduction to pantomime and this it was Benny from Crossroads coming through the steam, and part of the show was the the setup for the show was sort of a bit like my dressing room. So I came on stage as me, talked to people, and as the show went on about the history and everything, I sat down and I'd start putting my face on. And basically, because that year, I'm sure you can remember, we're all sat at home and then a daily briefing every day. And for someone that writes jokes and writes pantomimes and things, I mean it was a gold mine, all the stuff that was coming out, and I kept making notes thinking, well, that'll that'll be good in Panto this year, that'll that'll be good. And and then it got to it, and there was no panto, so I had a sort of an opening spot for the dame, but nowhere to do it. So the premise of the show was I was getting ready to do the show, and then I did the opening spot that I would have done that year had there been a pantomime. But because it was sort of set in my dressing room, I talked about, and you'll know this, Martin, you know, everyone seems to come into the dame's dressing room for a cup of tea and chat because we're just sort of sat there putting our face on, everyone comes in and says hello. So I had a spot in the show where I would invite someone on stage for a cup of tea, and uh lots of people came and guested uh when I did this show. So I had Biggins, who's an old friend of mine, Christopher Biggins, and I had various people I've worked with over the years. I didn't know Paul Henry, but I thought, well, I'll write to his agent and see if he might be interested. And I wrote to his agent and sent him the bit of script that mentioned him, and bizarrely, he lives in Shropshire now, he he not too far away, and he agreed to to come on and and and be the guest one day. So I got to meet him, so I told this story at the start of the show, and then later on I invited him on stage for a cup of tea, and he's become a great friend now, and he brings his grandchildren or his great grandchildren actually, to see me at Theatre Seven at Christmas. So it's a really you know, it's lovely that he's now bringing his grandchildren to see me, and he was the reason that I'm doing it in the first place, really.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

What a fabulous full circle moment. He did you're right, he did a few at uh Theatre All. I remember I don't know which year it was, but he did Robinson Crusoe. And somebody I I I've known for a long time, although I haven't seen her for a very long time. Polly Perkins was in that uh with him. Who would the dame have been? Do you remember? Because Richard Gauntlet did it for a long time, didn't he?

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Richard Gauntlet did uh yes, he did 20 odd years at uh Theatreal Norwich. It wouldn't have been him, because this would have been in the 80s. I think I've seen Jack Tripp there, it was a fantastic game. I'd have to look it up. Um there seemed to be a sort of a mainstay of people when Dick Condon was doing it. So he had um Yvonne Marsh uh who um did it quite a lot. Wei Wei Wong always seemed to be in it. Bill Maynard did a few years. Uh I remember I've got a badge of his as well. Oh no, it's TV Selwyn Frogett. He was he was there showing my age now, aren't I? Um yeah, I'd have to look up who the dame was. I just remember being taken by the uh the ugly sisters, how funny they were, and you know, how we all got to boo them, and and it was the being able to get involved with it really.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Bernie Clifton was there with the ostrich and Kathy Staff, of course, who was also in Crossroads originally, but Open All Hours and Vastus and Wine was in Mother Goose with Rod Holland Emu. And in our last episode, we talked about Goldilocks and the three beds. Wayne Sleep did that. I think in 1984 uh the theatre ordered. Did you was it a sort of annual trip for you as a child every year to go and see it?

SPEAKER_02 9:25

It was, yes. I never knew what I wanted to do when I left school, and but we but I loved the theatre, and we we went to that pantomime every single year. And when I was uh coming up to leaving school, I I still didn't have an idea what to do. Uh that was the time where you used to have um careers advisors that would that talk to you about what you wanted to do, and we had to fill in this question on a on an old BBC computer. You had to do sort of tick certain things and answer questions, and it gave you a printer and it told you basically what you should be, what a good career would be. And mine came out and it said I should either be a policeman or a cabinet maker. And I thought, well, I th I didn't really fancy either of those things, but um uh a great careers advisor that I had said I think you'd really enjoy television, so I think you should I think you should go on and do media studies. So without knowing what else to do, I I applied to do media studies at City College, Norwich, got there and realized that I didn't really enjoy media studies that much, but the Theatre World Norwich had just reopened under a man called Peter Wilson, and I got a job there, they they were looking for people in the evening, I got a job as an usher, got to see so much more theatre and stuff, and and it was through that job that I realized that actually, because I I I was quite a shy child, and uh the thought of standing on stage in front of people was you know a terrible idea for me. And working front of house, I then started doing a bit of backstage work and realized that there was a whole other world uh of um jobs in theatre that didn't involve being an actor, so I I thought stage management is what I'd like to do. So I applied to Bristol O'Vick. But uh my first job uh in pantomime came because Peter Wilson, who um he used to run Theatreal Norwich, but he also had a company in the West End called PW Productions, and I became head usher uh you know, I clawed my way to the top. So rather than being in the foyer selling programs, I used to count them into piles of 25 and give them to other ushers to sell. And I used to have a little booth in the foyer of the Theatre Wall Norwich, and uh behind me there was a wall that used to be able to fit three posters and a row of leaflets in this frame, and each week I would have to put up the following week's shows, and this became very boring, so I started cutting them up and making 3D things, and I did a big kick line of Tommy Steele's that did a kickline when you pulled a little bit of string, and I made a a 3D Audrey 2 for Little Shop of Horrors, and and Peter saw this one day and said, Who did that? And I I I thought I was in trouble, and I thought it was me. And he said, We're looking for someone to help the uh prop maker for the pantomime that year. Would you be interested? I I'd left college and uh I thought, yeah, I'd love to. So I fell into becoming a prop maker and I was making props for it was Aladdin and it was uh Christopher Biggins was Twanky, Victor Spinetti was Abenaza. It was a great cast, and when I finished that, they were all on rehearsing, and then when it went into technical rehearsals and they got on stage, the ASM, the assistant stage manager, was taken ill and couldn't then do the contract. And they s because I'd just finished being a prop maker, they said, Would you step up and be the ASM? I had no idea what it meant, but I just jumped at the chance, so I became the ASM for that pantomime. That's where it all started, really, and I thought, no, this is what I want to do, I want to be a stage manager. But from that pantomime, I then got to know Biggins and Victor Spinetti, actually. I don't know if you remember Victor, he was fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

And uh there was a scene that he was in, and then he had a he had a scene off, and then he had to come back on again. And his dressing room was two of two floors up, and he didn't want to go back to his dressing room. So there was a point in the show every day where I would be sat in the wings, and Victor would come and sit next to me, and he would just wait for his next entrance. And one day he said to me, He said, What do you want to do with your life, Brad? And I said, I don't know, I think I'd like to be a stage manager. And he said, Well, I don't know anything about stage management, so I'll teach you how to act. So every day he used to talk to me about comedy and tragedy, and he said, Uh, tragedy's easy, he said, anyone can do tragedy, comedy that's the hard part, and you've got to listen and you've got to do this. So every day he would give me like these little acting lessons, and at the time I thought nothing of it, but I would always sit, whenever I was a stage manager and ASM, whatever, when I especially on pantomimes, I would just sit and watch uh, you know, how people did things, and you know, why did that work? And how does he get a laugh there and he's not doing anything? And picking up all those sort of things, even p picking up little tips from I Christopher Biggins always used to get an exit round, uh, which always used to make me laugh when he walked upstairs to get a round. And and one day I was watching him, and I I was watching that he actually started it himself as he was walking upstage. That doesn't surprise me at all. Upstage hands, he started the round. I thought brilliant. So I learnt a lot by watching, really.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

You've touched on one of the joys of Panto. Uh its evolution is uh obvious, but you know, the the consistence, if you like, uh of Panto are handed down generation to generation. I worked you know, in one of my first Panto's with another similar actor, comedian to Victor Fibonetti called Alfred Marx. And the stuff that you learn from people like that is incredible. That's why Panto one of the reasons anyway, why Panto has survived, because the traditions are passed on, the disciplines are passed on, and you learn so much, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Absolutely. It it is amazing. Alfred Marx was one of the greatest abernazas, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, he was abonazar with me, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Yeah, he was famous for that. But he was, yeah. I a lot of the things I do now uh that people say to me, I I work for evolution pantomimes at the moment, so that's um Paul Hendy and Emily Wood, and uh there are things that I say in pantomime that aren't in the script necessarily, uh, that will make Paul laugh and he'd say, Oh, that's a funny line. And I'd say to him, Oh gosh, that's a that's an old Larry Grayson line or something like that, you know, that because it's something that I've heard and somewhere it gets filed away and and uh the opportunity arises and it's you know it it comes out and it and you think, Oh, thank you, Larry, you know, yeah, it was good enough forty-fifty years ago. Look at the model.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Once you trained at Bristol Old Vic, I think your relationship with with Biggins continued, didn't you? I think you were a company manager, weren't you, for a while?

SPEAKER_02 16:12

I was a company manager, I I I moved pretty quickly from assistant stage manager, which is the person that runs around setting props and things like that, to deputy stage manager, which was the person sat on the script, you know, cueing everything. And I I didn't really enjoy that too much. And then I moved on fairly quickly to company manager. So you're the sort of you are the the easiest way to say what company manager, you're the sort of the connection between the company and the production company. So the company of actors and dancers, musicians, and the production company. You're that sort of linchpin that deals with both and makes sure the show runs well, and you're very important as well because you pay the wages and work out all that sort of stuff. But um I did that and I was Biggins, I was his company manager for several years. He did five years writing and directing at Cambridge Arts Theatre, and I think I did the last four years for him. And uh when I was there, one of my jobs was to uh get together the Hellos and Birthdays requests from front of house, and I would type them up for him, print them out in in a nice large font so that he didn't, you know, he could read them. And some days I'd see a a group of people in or something, and I'd think, Oh, that's that would be funny if he said, you know, we've got this group in, and then whatever the joke may be. And I so I would type it in for him, and then he he started saying, Oh, I like those little joke things you you put in. So, you know, if you ever think of anything, put it in. So I started doing that and and then started offering him the odd joke for the show and said, Oh, why why why don't you try this bit when you walk on or whatever? So I started doing that for him. So then when he left uh Cambridge um and moved on, the then theatre manager of Cambridge Arts Theatre, which was a guy called Ian Ross, he asked me if I would um write the following year's pantomime. And I said, Well, I've never written. He said, Well, you you you used to do bits for uh Chris, so so I went off and I wrote Act One, I think it was um Jack and the Beanstalk was the first one I wrote. So I wrote Act One, sent it off to Ian, he said, Yeah, that's great, finish it. And so I wrote act two, and when I'd handed that in, so I suddenly fell into becoming a pantomime writer, and then once I'd written it and sent it into him, he said, Do you want to direct it? And I said, Well, I don't know. He said, It's easy. He said, You've you you've written it, so you know what happens in your head, so you've just got to tell the actors now what to do. So I I then fell into that, and I did that for about four or five years, writing and directing, and then we came around to Cinderella again, and I'd sort of become known in Cambridge with my uh guy called Scott Ritchie, who was the choreographer that I worked with. We'd sort of built up Cambridge to quite a popular pantomime, and the numbers had gone up, and we were sort of known in Cambridge, nowhere else, but we were sort of known in Cambridge. When it got to Cinderella, he said, Why don't you and Scott play the Ugly Sisters? And Scott thought it was a great idea, he was all for it because he had been a performer anyway, trained as a dancer, was a performer, and thought that that would be fun. And I, who had never been on stage, thought, that's a ridiculous idea. I don't you know, uh I'm not gonna do that. But they kept asking, kept asking, and I I I thought to myself, do you know, nobody's ever gonna ask me to do this again. I love pantomime. So when we were auditioning Cinderella's, I wrote a scene with the Uglies and Cinderella, and I thought, well, when we do the auditions, Scott and I can just read in the uglies and do that and and I'll get a feel for it and see if I'm so we did that and I thought, go on then, I'll do it. And very quickly they got us on the posters, because I suppose there's no going back after that. And that was it. I was um so I I found myself playing Dolce Hard Up. Uh we had we were Dolce and Gabbana that year, and um and I did that and um I got a very nice review. I got picked out in the Sunday Telegraph as one of the best uglies that year, alongside Matthew Kelly. We weren't working together obviously, but they've picked us two out as the best uglies, and uh they asked me to come back the next year as um uh the dame in uh Jack and the Beanstalk. So I I I played Dame the next year and that was it. If you remember Billy Dainty, he once said to someone, don't ever put a frock on in pantomime, because if you uh if you make a half-decent stab at it, you'll never get out of them. So um I often think of that. So I was obviously half decent, and apart from one year where I played buttons, I've I've never got out of the frock.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

So what was the experience like the first time? Um I mean obviously Damie's very different to playing Ugly Sister, but that very first panto, uh given that you'd never performed before, what was it like as an experience?

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Before I went out, I'd never I remember that I I still know the man that used to be the uh theatre manager at Cambridge Arts Theatre. I saw him not long ago, and um Scott and I made our entrance through the rear auditorium. Cambridge Arts Theatre at that time had two aisles down the side of the stalls up onto the stage, and we were going to make our entrance there, and we opened with a number which was uh Beauty That Drives a Man Mad from some like a ho. And I remember standing there on the first show. I'd never been on stage in front of an audience before in my life, and I was stood in the sort of little vestibule bit waiting, and I could hear Matt Crosby, who was playing buttons, doing his patter stuff, and and he said, Oh no, here they come. And I heard the band start up, and I I thought, right, well, this is it. And my my neck had disappeared, my shoulders were so high up by my head, and I thought, right, here we Go and I went down, but as as soon as I got on stage and I came into the song at the right point, and I thought, right, okay, well, that's that and I did the number, big run put, went into it. I was nervous to go out, but once I was out, I was absolutely fine. And I think it's because I'm so far removed from my character. You know, Scott was uh I'm five nine, Scott's Scott was about six one, so we we accentuated that by making me. I had flat shoes and very, very flat wigs, and I was quite big. I had a bit of a padded suit on, so made made myself quite squat. We made him very, very tall, tall wigs, tall shoes, da da da and very thin. So I didn't feel like me. I had a face full of makeup, you know, I've got this padded suit on, not my voice, obviously. So it it didn't sort of feel like me, so I wasn't really nervous. Once it started, I wasn't nervous, and thankfully, touch wood, I've not been nervous since I find it very comfortable thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Well, there was no looking back, that's for sure, from that very first one. Uh, you've not really stopped. And I guess that's the the same really with the writing, because you've you've never really stopped writing either, have you?

SPEAKER_02 23:08

No, I've been doing I've done a lot of scripts. I I wrote for Basildon for many years with a town gate for a guy called Simon Fielding. I wrote for Peterborough, I'm I write now for Yeovil. I'm writing with uh a fantastic guy at the moment for Yeovil. We're doing Aladdin this year, Kevin James. But I also do other stuff, so I sort of did pantomime and then I started uh writing for kids. Um I've done lots of those adaptations of um children's books like um Julia Don't I do a lot of directing of kids stuff, so uh Tales from Acorn Wood, Dear Zoo, uh I've just adapted, well I adapted it last year, Pirates Love Underpants. So yeah, I do a lot of writing.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

I know that because two or three of those at least have been to curve in Leicester, of course.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

That's right, yeah. That's where we know each other from, isn't it? Leicester.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

It is. But the interesting thing is with the panto thread, you know, that you've managed to do all of this at the same time, direct, write, be dame, work backstage as well, company manager, and that's not something that most people will ever get a chance to do. They generally specialise, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Yeah, no, I've been very lucky. I've sort of fallen into a lot of the things I've ever done, and I think a lot of that is just thinking right, well, you know, give it a go. I mean, I d I I think that a lot of the best director, I'm not saying I'm the best director, I but I I I work with as a producer, I work with a lot of directors, a lot of designers and uh, you know, creatives. And one thing you'll find quite often I'll work with someone and I'll think, oh, they're good, they know what they're talking about. And quite often they started in stage management. And I think that a grounding in stage management is a fantastic springboard. Yeah, I mean, that nothing nothing wrong with training to be a stage manager and and and doing stage management for the rest of your life. It's a it's a brilliant job. But a lot of creators that I've worked with had a grounding in stage management. I think it's a great thing to understand theatre because you then have a great idea of how everything works.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

I think it gives you a an appreciation, doesn't it, of all of the different aspects and areas within theatre in general, but pantomime, of course, in particular. So over the years, I don't know how many scripts you've written or how many pantos you've performed in, but is there one panto title that is your overall favourite?

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yes, Dick Whittington is my favourite title. We did it last I did it last year actually at Theatre 7 in Shrewsbury. I don't know why it's my favourite title. I think it's I just like the journey that you go on in Dick Whittington. You start quite often in London, you go on a journey, end of act one, you're off on a boat, you you you travel to distant shores. King Rat, I think, is a great character. Quite often you uh with pantomimes, whether it's Jack or Aladdin or whatever, it's it's the somebody's going off to fall in love or save a princess or whatever. I just I like the journey and I like the character, I like Sarah the Cook. I don't know why, but I've spoken to a lot of a lot of dames. It's quite a popular title, Dick Whittington. I think. I don't know. Yeah, I think it's got good scope for costumes.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Cinder Allery is incredibly popular, of course it is, but there's no real adventure, is there? Jack and the Boo Stork, you know, you're off to fight the giant, Dick Whittington, as you say, sailing off to foreign shores on an adventure, Aladdin even Magic Carpet Ride, Cave of Wonders, there's adventure in all of those, isn't there? And I think that's one of the reasons why Dick Whittington is so popular, because of the adventure as well.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Yeah, but I'm yeah, it's I think it's popular with performers, but i it's one of those that's not as popular with producers. I think it's because it's I mean the basic thing which I would say is probably there's never been a Disney film made of Dick Whittington where exactly you've got Cinderella, you've got Aladdin, you've got Beauty and the Beast, you know, all those things that I would uh not particularly consider a great pantomime story. Beauty and the Beast is great, but it's a difficult pantomime, I think. Similarly, with um quite a lot of the the modern ones, Peter Pan. I think Peter Pan is a great story, it can be a great Christmas story. I think it's difficult sometimes to try and make it fit the um you know what you wanted to do for a pantomime.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Are there any pantomimes that you may have done or seen as a child that are no longer staged that you'd like to see come back? And I'm thinking, you know, I mentioned Robinson Crusoe. I mean, some of these are difficult now in the 21st century, you know, culturally, um, but also Simbad, um there are I I did Hansel and Gretel, which I don't think anybody's ever done since, you know. But there are Did you kill it off? I think I think I must have done, yeah. But you know, there are some some titles that have just slipped by the wayside uh uh over the years. Uh would you like to see any of them come back or even some brand new ones?

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Yeah, I do yes, I remember Simbad. I mean Ken Dodd used to do that quite famously, didn't he? He used to do it uh Sinbad uh and the Forty Thieves, and um yeah, there are some that have you know slipped out of popularity for for like you say, various reasons, Babes in the Wood, Puss in Boots, I suppose, is uh was one that used to be done quite a lot. Humpty Dumpty. I mean there's there's the more obscure ones. I think there is a trend, isn't there? I mean, when Berick Kaler was up in York, he uh I didn't think it really mattered what the title was, it was just Beric's uh show, and the title was immaterial in a way, but he used to do he used to write all sorts of bizarre titles, and I think um Michael Harrison up in Newcastle is now doing lots of new titles, isn't he, with um at Newcastle Theatre Royal.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

And and there are others, Little Mermaid, Treasure Island, some new ones. I think that we may lose some as well, and I think Mother Goose is probably one that we may actually lose. It's certainly never been as popular as some of the others. It's a difficult narrative, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 29:16

It is difficult. I did it a few years ago, actually. So I that's another one that I really liked. I enjoyed doing, and again, another popular one with people that play Dame because it gives you scope to do a bit of acting. I mean, because actually to get Mother Goose right, you have to have pathos in it as well, and you know, it gives you something to get your teeth into. I think when you're saying goodbye to a dancer dressed in a an eight-foot goose costume, as difficult as it may be, you know, the kids have to really believe that you're really upset about saying goodbye to the goose, and um you have to play play it with the truth. And uh it it I I did enjoy playing Mother Goose, but yeah, I think you're right, it's a difficult title, but um a lovely part to play.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

I mean you're right about the pathos as well. It's very similar to Selling the Cow and Jack and the Beanstalk. Yeah. I did Mother Goose twice and both times I enjoyed it, but uh producers are always concerned it's not gonna sell. A part of that is it's never been done by Disney, but the other part is that narrative, which is it's not complicated, it's just not clear for kids, is it?

SPEAKER_02 30:24

No, you have to get it right, and it's a it's it's a lovely story, you know. She's actually she's got everything she wants right there uh at the end. But yeah, it can be difficult to to get it across. But um I did enjoy it. It was a nice one to play. But again, maybe it's maybe dames and people that play dame like playing it because it's a it's a good part to play.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Which character will you be giving us this Christmas?

SPEAKER_02 30:46

I'm back to Aladdin again, so Twanky. I think it's been an updated uh it's been a bit updated since um we last did it. I'm not sure where it's set. I don't think it's set in a laundry. I think it's set in a joke shop. I think the Twankies run a joke shop.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Uh which gives us a bit of scope to uh for some uh comedy. But yeah, I'll be I'll be back at Theatre Seven, joined by uh my sidekick there for the his fourth year, I believe, now, Tommy Rollison, Tommy J, who's a fantastic comic and um he amazes me. He's he's another one of these I don't know where he knows it all from. But then again, I don't know where I know it all from. You know, I think I know comedians that were long gone before I was a child, you know, and I still refer to so somewhere in my subconscious I've picked up all these Norman Evans and uh Rob Wilton stuff and things like that, but he knows it as well. I think people that are just there's a certain type of guy that's obsessed with comedy, and we somehow we all know these um obscure people that were long gone before we were around.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

It's not a job, is it? It's it's a love, it's um a passion, and um you you soak up stuff like that because you love it so much. Listen, I wish you all the very best for your 16th panto season uh in Show Two. And Brad, thank you so much for talking to us. You're very welcome, thank you for having me. And I'm afraid that's it for now. Don't forget we've got many more fabulous guests still to come. Make sure you subscribe through your favourite podcast app and spread the word to anybody you know who loves pantomime. Next time we're gonna be discussing Imagine Theatre sustainability strategy and how to embed greener decision making in a company of Imagine size. I'm gonna be joined by joint CEO Sarah Bowden and Jasmine Evans, the operations and production administrator who drove a recent trial at the Gatehouse Theatre in Stafford. So join me, Martin Ballard, next time for episode 132 of Just Imagine.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Thank you for listening to the latest edition of Just Imagine, the podcast series from Imagine Theatre. And you can find out more by going to www.imaginetheatre.co dot uk.