Why Flexible Working Is the Future of Inclusive Business Growth

What if flexible working wasn’t just a perk, but a pathway to inclusive growth and business success?

Toby Mildon is joined by Molly Johnson-Jones, co-founder and CEO of Flexa, to unpack the real story—and real research—behind flexible careers. From being unfairly dismissed due to a disability to launching a platform that empowers over 3 million professionals, Molly shares her inspiring journey and vision for the future of work.

We dive into the benefits of flexible working for individuals and businesses alike, including improved productivity, better hiring outcomes, and economic gains beyond major cities. But we also tackle the tough stuff—like common misconceptions, cultural barriers, and why binary thinking (remote vs. office) holds organisations back.

Key takeaways:

• Flexible working boosts engagement, retention, and access to diverse talent.
• Inclusivity isn’t just remote work—it’s creative policies that meet employee needs.
• Hybrid working requires intentional culture design and leadership trust.
• Flexibility can—and should—be tailored even in frontline or shift-based roles.

Guest Highlight: Molly Johnson-Jones, CEO of Flexa—driving transparency and inclusivity in flexible careers.

If you're enjoying this episode and looking to boost equity, inclusion, and diversity in your organisation, my team and I are here to help. Our team specialises in crafting data-driven strategies, developing inclusive leaders, designing fair recruitment processes, and enhancing disability confidence. With a blend of professional expertise and lived experience, we're ready to support you on your journey. Reach out to us through our website. 

If you want to build a more inclusive workplace that you can be proud of please visit our website to learn more.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Inclusive Growth Show with Toby Mildon, future

proofing your business by creating a diverse workplace. Toby Mildon: 0:06

Hey there. Thank you ever so much for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I'm Toby Mildon, and today I'm joined by Molly Johnson Jones who is the co founder and chief exec of Flexa. And we're going to be talking everything about flexible careers of flexible working today and all of the good benefits that we get from being able to work flexibly. So Molly, thanks ever so much for joining me

today. It's lovely to see you. Molly Johnson Jones: 0:43

Yeah, lovely to be

here. Thank you so much for inviting me. Toby Mildon: 0:46

So Molly, what inspired you to start Flexa in the first place and what was the

original problem that you were trying to solve? Molly Johnson Jones: 0:53

Yeah, so it was actually back quite a long time. We actually started Flexa. That's, I'd experienced quite a personal problem around trying to find companies that would enable me to work from home for one day a week. So when I started my career when I left university all I really cared about was progressing rapidly through my career and earning a good salary, as you often do in your 20s. But around the same time that I started my career I was also diagnosed with a really severe autoimmune disease. That means that periodically, sometimes I just can't walk, my joints swell up, my face swells up, my feet, my hands, it's something that's quite painful. And although it obviously goes away again for that period of time I'm basically immobile. So obviously going into investment banking, which is not the most flexible or inclusive environment I could have chosen was pretty difficult. Molly

Johnson Jones: 1:52

But I really wanted that job. I'd worked really, really hard to get there. So for about 18 months I struggled through wearing slippers on my commute because they were squishier, cycling if I couldn't walk and just generally really trying to struggle through. But there were times where it was totally unavoidable that I had to take a sick day. So after about 18 months they said, well, we're really open to you working from home one day a week. Did all of the proper process, sent me to an occupational health therapist who said, you know the severity of your autoimmune disease, like I want you to be classified as disabled to protect you. And 10 days later, thank God she did because 10 days later they put a settlement package in front of me, sacked me and told me to leave immediately. Molly Johnson

Jones: 2:31

So they obviously were not open to flexible working whatsoever and it wasn't so much that they weren't like if I'd had that information at my hands and had made a kind of empowered and educated decision that it wasn't right for me anymore, I think it would've been significantly less devastating. But I felt so powerless and so helpless in that time. I then went into the job hunting process just like billions of other people have done and with a very new lens saw just how badly set up it was to understand what it's like to work at a company before you get there or even just to find companies that would offer the non negotiable that I now had. And I spoke to hundreds of other people in that situation, whether that was people with disabilities, working parents who obviously

have that non negotiable. Molly Johnson Jones: 3:25

And we realized that there was a massive problem to fix that. And around the same time, very relevantly my now husband was leaving his company and he was like, well, they were super flexible before it was normal. This was the year back in 2017 2018. And he said, well, I want to leave, I am an able bodied middle class white mad and there is no reason that I need flexibility but I want it. And so being able to find it again in the future is almost impossible. And I was like welcome to my world. And we started talking about the fact that not only is it important for people that need flexibility, but also we should be de stigmatizing and normalizing flexible working as being for everybody. And so that was

where the mission began. Toby Mildon: 4:10

I love that start story. I'm sorry that you had to go through that really tough experience in the financial service sector, but it doesn't surprise me having heard similar stories from other people. So what are some of the key benefits then of flexible working both for individual employees but also for their employers?

Molly Johnson Jones: 4:35

I think it's an area of work of kind of research that thankfully has come on leaps and bounds over the last few years. And obviously the pandemic kind of pushed us through an accelerated trajectory of everybody having to work flexibly fully remotely in fact, which isn't necessarily the only form of flexible working despite what the media might tell you. And we've seen so many benefits from both sides. So I think from the obviously employee or candidate side, there's a huge benefit in terms of accessibility and inclusivity naturally because you can create working environments that enable individuals with different needs or wants to thrive. Whether that is somebody that needs to work fairly remotely because they physically cannot get into an office, whether that's with flexible hours because somebody wants to be able to pick up or drop off their children, whether that's a dog friendly office because somebody wants to have a dog but can't afford doggy daycare every day, whether it's a work from anywhere scheme because you've got expats within your company and they'd love to be able to spend more time with

their family abroad. Molly Johnson Jones: 5:34

There are so many different kinds of flexible working that are not limited to just remote working and ultimately you'll find it easier to hire, people will be more productive, people will be happier and more engaged. And then that obviously seeps onto the B2B side. So for businesses, there's been so much research around both the benefits of hybrid and remote working. So the biggest study was done by Nick Bloom who's a professor at Stanford and he saw that with hybrid working productivity is slightly higher, about 12% higher, engagement and happiness is significantly higher and retention is obviously much higher and costs are higher, is higher is much lower, speed as well. And then if you look at remote working, although productivity is slightly lower than with hybrid and engagement is slightly lower, obviously lack of an office much, much cheaper and your ability to hire is incredible because the supply and demand completely outweigh themselves. So when companies say, oh what are the benefits? Nobody's actually doing any work. Like there isn't an overwhelming body of research that would suggest otherwise. But I would caveat that and say that flexible working and distributed teams, it has to be done intentionally. You can't just give people a laptop

and expect everything to work. Toby Mildon: 6:46

Absolutely. I was working with one of my clients around about the time of the end of the pandemic and they were recruiting for a new salesperson and it suddenly dawned on them that they could actually hire a salesperson from the other side of the country 'cause they were like, well, there's no reason why we need to find somebody locally 'cause they were struggling to find local talent, but they could spread their net further afield and they had a

much wider talent pool to be able to draw from as well. Molly Johnson Jones: 7:21

Exactly. And then that has a huge economic benefit because there are, historically wealth has been concentrated around large cities and rural communities have really struggled with that. Whereas now, I now live down in rural Devon. And the effect that that has had on local economies of people moving back full time has been enormous. And you see the change and being able suddenly. So to be able to work in a place where it's commutable once a week or once a month is a complete game changer

from a geographical and economical perspective as well. Toby Mildon: 7:49

Yeah, I mean at the beginning of the pandemic it really astounded me with how quickly organisations were able to mobilise their workforce to provide flexible ways of working remote working and things like that. When for years they said that flexible working wasn't possible or it wasn't achievable for a particular type of job function or job role. But now it seems like we are facing this like another dilemma where businesses are now mandating people to come back to the office and they're really grappling with how to get the balance right I suppose. What's your take on this shift from suddenly being able to mobilise a workforce to work remotely

and now mandating people to come back to the office? Molly Johnson Jones: 8:46

Yeah, I think it's a really complex subject. It's like obviously within the pandemic like necessity is the mother of all invention. Like ultimately we had to adapt and companies that did exceptionally well. And in that period of time I think we made a loss of progress when it came to particularly hybrid working. I think we realised that like I'm a massive advocate for the fact that remote and in person work are highly complimentary. And I think that the balance for each company and each individual is different. So at Flexa for example, we come in as a team just once a month and we pay for everybody's travel accommodation, et cetera in order to do that. But there'll be other companies that I've worked with where hybrid three days a week is definitely right for them from a culture, from a work type of work perspective. And there are obviously companies out there where five days a week in

the office or five days a week on site has to happen. Molly Johnson Jones: 9:39

I think where we are maybe moving backwards a little bit is focusing on the very binary nature of a debate of in office versus fully remote. Whereas actually the majority of individual's preference and the majority of company's preference will be in that gray area in the middle of somewhere between four days a week in the office and one day a month in the office or an offsite every quarter. And I think by everybody fighting on these two kind of binary ends of the spectrum, we're ignoring the kind of evolution that we could create within the world of work. Also focusing on alternative working patterns, evolved work weeks, benefits that add flexibility, flexible hours, things that people can use if they do have to be on site every day. And I think the evidence is there, the research is there around the fact that that blend of the two is ultimately the most beneficial. Molly

Johnson Jones: 10:34

And I think there's just a hesitancy around adopting that by a lot of more traditional leaders because as I mentioned before, there is this need for intentionality. You have to specifically create the kind of cultures that are output focused, not hours focused. You have to get past the fact that if you don't see somebody at their desk every day, they are still probably working very hard. Just because you can't go up and look at them doesn't mean that they aren't. And those kind of very ingrained, very historic ways of managing people we do have to move past. Same with technology and embracing that like if companies aren't set up with the right technology and people are wading through red tape in order to be able to move between the office and home, that's going to cause a massive kind of productivity suck. And I think there's so many little pieces that aren't working perfectly right now that we need to understand are not signifiers that flexible working doesn't work. It's just a sign that we need more innovation in those spaces and that we need to lean in and understand where the gray area is between fully in the office and fully remote. Toby

Mildon: 12:19

What would you say are some of the biggest misconceptions or barriers

that employers today still hold about flexible working? Molly Johnson Jones: 12:29

I still think that there is an enormous stigma associated with flexible working around if you want to work flexibly, it means that you want to work less hard. And I think that that was something that I really struggled with when I was in my early 20s because my whole life had been set up until then around achieving, around wanting to be the best at kind of anything that I put my mind to. And I'd been able to do that at school, I'd been able to do that at the university, I've been able to do that in terms of the job that I got. And then all of a sudden this also immune disease sort of pulled the rug out from under my feet. And I remember then trying to find another job where that same level of career progression, that same level of reward, that same level of fast

paced competitiveness would exist. Molly Johnson Jones: 13:11

And I just couldn't find it because everybody heard you need to work from home one day a week and heard you're not that committed to your career. And I think although that has been challenged, that pervasive belief has not completely disappeared. And I think it's so problematic for gender equality in particular because women are more likely to need flexible working. And so I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions 'cause people often work more hours at home, they're often more productive, they often get more done. But it's just that belief that because you want to do that at home, you are less committed to the company, I think is exceptionally problematic. And I hope with a new generation of leadership that will start to shift. But I don't think we're gonna lose

that anytime soon. Toby Mildon: 13:58

Yeah, I remember when I worked for Deloitte we had a big focus on flexible working and had a really good agile working policy in place. And it started from a gender perspective, we looked at the glass ceiling that was preventing women from getting up to partner level. And it was the lack of flexible working that was an issue. So we put in a very simple policy which basically said things like you are judged on your output, not judged on the hours that you work or where you work. And then things like, as long as it works for you and the client and the business, then it's all good. And interestingly what started off as a, I suppose like a gender focus very quickly evolved into a benefit for everybody in the business. Like everybody in the firm started to realise the benefit of being able to work flexibly and be able to do their job

really well. Molly Johnson Jones: 15:01

Yeah. Which I think it's such a brilliant way to look at it and it makes an

enormous amount of sense. Toby Mildon: 15:06

It does. And there's one story that really stood out for me because we used to do these little vignettes of employees benefiting from flexible working and there was a male colleague of mine who had a, or has a son who has severe autism. And he said that he really benefited from flexible working during the school holidays because during the term time his son was looked after by the school, he went to a special educational needs school, but then that care and support wasn't provided during the school holidays. So he needed to be able to work flexibly during school holidays. So he had a kind

of term time working arrangement which benefited him. Molly Johnson Jones: 15:52

Exactly. And then that's another great example of genuine creativity within flexible working. And I think if we look at how companies will need to adapt is ultimately if we want to get them the most out of our workforce, then we have to create working environments in which people can thrive. Otherwise how will you get people that are productive, engaged, happy, and actually stay there working and doing their best work? And I'm glad that we're kind of re imagining it from a more human perspective. 'Cause I think for a very long time we struggled to get out of the idea that work was work and that life would never infringe on it whatsoever. And while I am still like I run a business, obviously you can't bring your home problems to work. Like there is still a level of professionalism that is needed and a level of separation. But equally, if it works for you to work in the term time or if it works for you to go to the gym at lunchtime because you want to work a little bit later in the evening or you'd rather start early because you're more productive, like those kind of things really should be supported and facilitated because it enables

people to get the most out of their jobs. Toby Mildon: 16:59

Yeah. Yeah. So Flexa is in a really good position because you work with lots of different businesses so you can see lots of good examples of best practice

everywhere. Molly Johnson Jones: Yeah. Toby Mildon: 17:11

Can you share with me some examples of businesses that have successfully adapted to a post pandemic

way of working while still maintaining flexibility? Molly Johnson Jones: 17:25

Yeah, so we've got some really, really exceptional examples of companies that are massive that have adapted to flexible working, usually hybrid, but then also maintains really great cultures around that. So one that really stands out in my mind is Airbus. Because most people wouldn't think, oh, very large aerospace and defense company, that's gonna be a flexible place to work. But they actually just won our award. And when I say award like this is employee voted like this isn't us just picking a company for the best work life balance at a company of all companies on Flexa. And it really is that they've chosen to offer hybrid working, they're three days a week in the office, but once you are off, if your work is done, like that's that. And then they've also kind of implemented loads of other brilliant policies that support people's lives, whether that's around enhanced maternity and paternity leave, adoption leave,

part time, being open to part time working. Molly Johnson Jones: 18:16

So that's one really great example because they're such an enormous company. I think another one that really stands out is Mars because they went from being really, really inflexible to being genuinely like flexible hybrid two to three days a week at home and have every form of alternative flexibility on offer, part time, job sharing, compressed hours. And you can see it in the employee feedback that they have of how well they've embraced it in an industry that obviously they have a split workforce. So they've also got people that have to be on site all the time. And that's often used as an argument by large companies of why they can't embrace flexibility. It's like, but we've got half the workforce that have to be somewhere all the time. And Mars have said yes, that's absolutely true, but flexibility will look different to those people.

Molly Johnson Jones: 19:05

And we also see that with Heineken, like we work with Heineken, they have our whole supply chain on the other side, but they're focusing on creating better working environments where people can thrive through things like yeah, different shift patterns, great benefits. Not having those zero hours contracts that are written unless people want them, actually offering benefits that normally would just be seen by office workers or full time employees. And I think that's the kind of focus that we need to have is across all role types because otherwise we will end up with this schism between people that could traditionally work in an office and people that couldn't. Whereas actually there's an opportunity here to massively improve our working lives across all role types. Toby

Mildon: 19:47

Yeah. Can I pick up on that point with you around Mars and Heineken? Because something I have heard myself is, like you say, this schism is being created where leaders say we are running a factory or a distribution center around the clock with very rigid shift times. Or we run an organisation where, for example, where a healthcare business we need people on the ground, with patients in a clinic or hospital setting and flexibility is not possible for us. What do you say to those organisations? How can we introduce flexibility to those types of

on the ground roles? Molly Johnson Jones: 20:28

I think some roles will never have the ability to have different hours or work in different locations, but that doesn't mean that they can't be great working environments 'cause there are lots of people out there that don't mind about working from home or working flexible hours. But that doesn't mean that they don't mind about other things like paid holiday or enhanced parental leave or the ability to change their shift pattern from five days on, two days off to three days on, four days off, whatever it might be going part time. And so I think it's about asking their employees what they might want to see, first of all, rather than guessing and then seeing what ultimately is possible and not seeing, I think what large companies in particular have a tendency of doing is when they think about okay, how can we implement flexibility or how can we improve the working environment? Molly

Johnson Jones: 21:17

They see it as this massive like three year long organisational transformation projects and where they have to have all of the answers and then implement everything all at once once they've got their 60 page PowerPoint. Whereas actually iterating, listening, iterating, testing is gonna be the most successful way of changing the way that an organisation operates. And I think that's often forgotten. And so we look at Heineken for example. They've not picked flexibility as something to be discovered for, but they have picked things like inclusivity. They have a really diverse workforce, they've got brilliant benefits and they're the things that they're being discovered for and want to be known for. And that is genuinely exceptionally competitive versus other companies that would have similar setups. Toby

Mildon: What does inclusive growth mean for you? Molly Johnson Jones: 22:02

So for me it comes back to that concept of creating environments that enable people to thrive. And I think you can then apply that to growth and say, okay, companies can be fast paced, they can be very high performing, they can be target driven, but that doesn't mean that that is at the expense of a diverse workforce, a happy workforce and engaged workforce. I think those things can go hand in hand. It just really does require a lot more thought 'cause sometimes there's a tension between those two things. Whereas I actually think in the right working environments they can actually work with each other and create a significantly higher performing culture because you have got the slightly more human side and the understanding and a mixture of people, which is always the best thing that a

company can have. Toby Mildon: 22:58

So if the person listening to us right now wants to implement greater flexible working in their organisation, what are some of the things that Flexa could do to support them on

their journey and how can they learn more about it? Molly Johnson Jones: 23:15

So I think the biggest thing for companies is very often companies worry that they haven't got enough to shout about. They're like, oh no, but we're not exceptional. We're not fully remote with the work from anywhere scheme and offering everything under the sun. And I always say that doesn't matter because there will be thousands of people out there that want to work in the way that you offer. And so the biggest thing that we help with is companies being transparent about what they offer and therefore being discovered by the talents that wants to work in that way. And I always think about that alignment when we look at the way that traditional, like more job platform focus platforms work, you type in the role that you want, you might filter by salary, that's all the information that you get. You then have to go through that horrible due diligence process of when they say it's remote,

is it really? How many days a week hybrid is it? Molly Johnson Jones: 24:03

What are their policies? Whereas we have companies to lead with that from the very beginning so that you have a more efficient hiring funnel by building an employer brand centered around exactly how you work rather than people having to do all of that guesswork. We're used by 3.2 million people now and hundreds of companies to facilitate that matchmaking a little bit like you would with Airbnb when you wanna cross it with a hot tub, you put those filters on all those, all those properties come up. And we're trying to shift that mindset away from the idea that being transparent is bad and means that people will take the piss towards actually being transparent is efficient. It's marketing, it's how you would do it if you weren't in the recruitment market. It's how everybody else markets their products and services, and trying to bring that mindset of fit and transparency to recruitment, which not everybody's comfortable with it, but lots of companies are after they see the results in terms of pipeline diversity, speed to hire, reducing costs to hire, like there's

huge upside. Toby Mildon: 25:08

Brilliant. Well, Molly, thanks ever so much for joining me today. It's been lovely to catch up with you and thanks for everything you're doing to make the world a more flexible place to

work. Molly Johnson Jones: 25:19

Thank you so much for having me.

It was great to chat. Toby Mildon: 25:21

You're welcome. And thank you for tuning into this episode with Molly and myself. Hopefully you've taken away some inspiration to start applying to your own business. There's some real benefits to having a flexible way of working, both for the individual concerned, but also for the organisation itself in terms of your productivity, innovation, reducing costs and things like that. If there's anything that Molly and her team can do, please do visit the Flexa website and reach out to Molly's team and they will be more than happy to have a chat with you. Until the next time I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the Inclusive Growth Show, which will be coming up very soon. Take care. Bye bye.

Speaker 1: 26:03

Thank you for listening to the Inclusive Growth Show. For further information and resources from Toby and his team, head on over to our website at mildon.co.uk.