17. Is There A Market For Indian Books In The UK? With Katy Loftus, Former Publisher of Penguin UK

Guest host Tara Khandelwal talks to Katy Loftus about the most popular genres in the UK and what Indian authors can do to break into the international market.

What are the differences in publishing in the UK vs India? How important is social media in building an author profile? Why did she decide to become a freelancer?

Katy Loftus is an award-winning publisher and editor. Her career includes editorial roles at companies like Oxford University Press and Net-A-Porter, as well as various positions at Penguin Random House UK where she was named editor of the year in 2021. Find her on LinkedIn.


Tara is the Founder and Managing Director of Bound. In her role she steers creative, research, and production teams through a long-term content vision, and creates globally successful content IPs with loyal followers. She has previously worked at Penguin India, SheThePeople.TV, and BloombergQuint. Her writing has appeared in CondeNast Traveller, Scroll, Midday, and Outlook, among others. She also worked as an editor at Writer’s Side, Asia’s largest literary agency. Follow her on Linkedin, book a consultation call with her or drop her an email at Tarakhandelwal.bound@gmail.com.

Bound is one of India’s leading storytelling companies that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

Produced by Aishwarya Javalgekar
Edited by Kshitij Jadhav

Transcript

It feels like TV is exploring, particularly TV is exploring kind of current issues much more quickly. And I do wonder if there's a place there for a new publisher or an imprint that works in a more similar way to film and TV, so maybe has like, a team of writers, for example, and, you know, purposefully slips out their stall as a more kind of avant garde publishing house and really looks at everything from the technology of it to you know, how they speak to readers. And I won't say any more than that, because I'm starting to think maybe I should do this. No, your last, I just need a millionaire investor. Yeah.

Aishwarya  00:57

Welcome to the book people. I'm your host, Ashley, as I was a writer, a book editor, Podcast Producer, and the head of originals. In this past week in video podcast, I demystify the publishing and creative industries, and uncover the biggest opportunities and challenges for writers in India today. So when we talk about publishing, have you noticed we always talk about you know, how Indian books are doing in the Indian market, or we even talk about how books from the UK or US do with Indian readers, but we rarely rarely ever look at how well Indian authors and Indian books can do in international markets. So that's what we're covering this time. And I have a special guest to host the episode this time. So Tara can deal well, who is the founder of bound and who has been an editor for over 10 years, is hosting this episode. And she is talking to Katie Loftus. So Katie Loftus was the head of Penguin, Random House UK, which is one of the biggest international publishers in the world, she has been responsible for publishing some amazing bestsellers. And she was actually even named editor of the year in 2021. So they're going to talk about what leadership looks like in the UK, how Indian authors can break into that market. How important is social media when it comes to building this presence for authors? And why did she decide to leave this amazing job and go freelancing? So let's dive in.

02:29

To welcome to the book people, Katie.

02:32

Thank you so much, Tara. It's great to be here.

02:35

Yeah, we're very, very excited to have you here and get your perspective on all things publishing. So, you know, obviously the first question, it's an obvious one, but I have to ask, you know, you are the head of a major international publishing house, and you were named editor of the year in 2021, you sort of had this dream career that most of us editors want to have, working in the heart of publishing. So you know, you made a monumental change recently in your career, and you decided to leave that position, and, you know, do something else and go freelance. So what prompted that decision?

03:15

Oh, starting at the deep end? Yeah, like you said, it was, it was really an amazing time that I spent in, in the world of publishing actually started off in academic publishing for a couple of years, and then spent most of my time publishing fiction for Random House and HarperCollins. And then right at the end for Penguin, where I wasn't quite head of the whole company, although I love that. I have friends and running my list. And, and yeah, well, not amazing award, had a great year, publishing the Thursday murder club and many other amazing novels. But I suppose you could encapsulate it as kind of burnout with a kind of double punch of depression as well. So I, you know, the industry, as I'm sure you and colleagues are aware, both the editors and other other members of the staff and authors, it's a really, you know, high pressure, high pressure kind of boiling pot really, and I think partly because of the nature of books, it's so unpredictable. Nobody knows what book is going to kind of succeed, however you want to turn success, but if we're talking financially, you know, most books don't actually make much money. And it's just a few outliers. that, like Richard Austen's novel, The Thursday murder club that become absolute runaway successes. And so I think that unpredictability can really feed into this this pressure cooker. I think, you know, I also had kind of personal stuff going on, which I won't go into here, but I have suffered with depression, and all of all of my life kind of periods on and off. And I think the intense pressure I was under partly because of those huge successes meant that I my brain was just dealing with a lot of stress, you know, constantly, you know, always working feeding into that. And I think it just triggered a depressive episode in me. And I took some time out, and really reevaluated everything. I still love books. I think the kind of big corporate world of publishing is maybe not for me, at least for a good while. I also trained as a yoga teacher, so I'm like ticking all the boxes. But I am now back in the book world, but I'm working directly with authors on their manuscripts, which, when I took that time out to think about it, it wasn't kind of balancing budgets, or, you know, list strategy that really, you know, I was, I was good at it, but it didn't make me feel good. And it was the working with the books with the authors that made me that lifted me. And I think I hope I was good, too. So that is what I'm focusing on now.

06:55

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think, you know, all of us sort of book people, editors, we get into the industry, because that's the biggest high right, working with an author and making their book better. And also that high of finding that jam and finding something that's really, really good. I agree with what you're saying that it's so sort of unpredictable, and that you wanted to make a change. So what do you think is the most sort of marked difference in your working style now versus you know, when you are in corporate publishing?

07:26

Oh, that's a great question. I, I suppose working freelance allows you to listen to yourself and to what to you need to get all yoga on you to listen to your body. I think I was being told for quite a few years, quite clearly by my body that I couldn't really cope with the stress. But the world in which we live in not just publishing, but you know, the corporate world. It doesn't recognize that it expects, you know, the same number of hours, plus extra every week at the same time. And for me, you know, the accumulation of that over 15 years, just I had no choice but to change that. So now, I shedule in work at times that that worked for me. I don't have to go to a lot of meetings, which I you know, we all learn about meeting really figured out a solution for them. But just always go on forever, I guess bookish people in particular, do love to talk, talk around a subject. You know, I have a lot of one to one meetings, which are a completely different thing directly with the author or with some agents and publishers. But, you know, my time is mostly spent either doing that, or just editing, and I think is someone who needs quiet and is a bit of an introvert most of the time, just doing that in my house. So that's another change I work in mostly from home. Just being able to do that in the peace and quiet makes a really big difference to me. And kind of working according to how I'm feeling that day, which is a luxury and I'm very, very

09:20

deal worked for that. You've worked for that luxury. Yeah, I

09:24

mean, we do we all say that. But also there are so many people who have worked really, really hard. And for whatever reason, you know, I look back and I did work really hard. And I did have good taste. But I again, coming back to that unpredictability. There. You know, I was lucky enough that some of the books that I worked on did really well and that gave me essentially a higher salary and more bargaining power with the company that I worked for.

09:54

Yeah. So you know, in terms of like those books that are really, really Well, right? It's, you know, you're saying you got lucky. But obviously, you know, you you you have good tastes you have, there's obviously some editorial instinct that is leading you to pick these books. So can you tell me a little bit more about that process?

10:16

This is the fun that so one of the sudden bits I, I think when I first started out, you know, I think as a lot of people might identify with I really doubted myself. Editorially, I'd obviously read really widely, but you know, you get a submission in from so in, in the UK, I should say. books aren't submitted directly to us from authors. I think it's probably the same. Is it the same? Yeah, it's how the same? Yeah, that goes via an agent. Yeah. So yeah, as an author, you need to get a literary agent. And they have the connections with the book with the the editors in the publishing houses, and will also work with you, the author on the text. So they are very useful people. But it does add another layer of kind of gatekeeping. But yes, so the normal process was, I would get a book, ping up in my inbox, all obviously electronic now. And it would come with an email from the agent kind of saying why they thought I should acquire it, I would normally get, you know, about on average, about 10 a week. So you know, if you think about the hundreds of 1000s of people out there who are writing and millions of people, I should say, and then you know, slightly fewer who actually get to the end of a book, and then the fewer who get represented by an agent, you know, there's this kind of whittling down process that goes on. So I was very aware that every book that came to me, you know, had been through a lot already. There was always that moment of excitement when it comes especially, you know, there are some agents who, whose taste I shared, and I knew that they had a great eye for the market. And if something came up from one of them, I would immediately look at it straight away if you know if I wasn't in a meeting. And normally, I would really scan the email for me, I need to know the writing first. So I would open the first page, and just read the first page. And normally in that time, I would know, at least whether this is an author I think I can work with. Obviously, taste is subjective. As an editor, you hope that you've read widely enough that you you know, what makes a good sentence? And, you know, as a reader, you would know that to you just do you open that first page, there are some books, almost everyone loves. And those are the books that I'm I was looking for. So yeah, if I've read it and think, Oh, my goodness, this is amazing, then go back and look at the email more carefully. Look at what the plot is about. So we wouldn't normally get a synopsis from the agent, they would normally give us the kind of blurb type summary. And if the book sounded like, it was something a bit different to the other books on my list. If it sounded like something I knew my kind of sales, publicity and marketing teams would be able to sell well. So those kind of three things, the writing the marketability, and what was the other thing I said? Whatever that was? I feel like I might need to answer that question.

13:46

No, but I think what you said makes sense. And it is exciting when you just know. And I think what you said about reading widely, also makes a very big difference. Because sometimes, you know, as editors, you know, I personally, my personal life don't read a lot of crime, thrillers, but that's one of the books, that's one of the genres that I love to edit the most. And that's because I've sort of read widely, even though I don't like, you know, reading sort of my hobby. I've read enough of, you know, thrillers I read enough of each genre to know, you know, what's good, what's not good. You know, what makes something interesting? And I think that is sort of very, very key. And

14:31

storytelling is Yeah, universal across genre. Exactly. And there's no real formula to it. Yeah, but a writer either has it or they don't, you know, they can work on their craft. But I do believe that this kind of gift for conveying a story is a gift that certain people have,

14:54

definitely and also you can't really get away from the marketing aspect of it nowadays, especially You know, in a corporate publishing house, but I want to bring the conversation a little, you know, there's this whole narrative amongst, you know, South Asians and maybe people of color trying to break into the Western publishing market. And there is a little bit of, you know, complaint or there is sort of conversation about how a lot of the stories that do get published by multinational publishing companies abroad, in the UK, in the US are all about sort of the struggles, and there's not enough stories about everyday lives of people sort of like feticide. fetishizing, you know, people of color, so what would you say, you know, in response to that, or what would you say, like, I don't know, sort of, like, put you on the spot, or, you know, a token, either, but what I want to know is, you know, the publishing houses in the West, how are they now, looking at stories from, you know, people who are not living in the UK not living in the US people of color, different kinds of narratives? Is there more openness towards that? What kind of stories are doing? Well,

16:13

I think there are two things here. So there's, there's the kind of Southeast Asian, South Asian people of color in the UK. And then there's the kind of separate question of people living in other sanctuaries. And, you know, certainly, if you're in the UK, it's more likely that we think, you know, UK, people want to read about people in the UK, I mean, I would challenge that as well. But, but there is definitely an openness across all the major publishers and obviously, the indie presses for writers from every community across the UK. And, you know, I acquired a lot of brilliant writers from lots of different communities on my list, and I know that that's, that's still going on at Penguin. I think it's, it's harder with writers elsewhere, for some logistical reasons as well, that we generally, you know, have relationships with agents who are based in the UK. So, you know, if I were a writer, in India, for example, and I wanted to get a book published in the UK, I would probably try to find a UK based literary editor to kind of have that gateway into into that world. I mean, speaking for myself, I would I love and an often did get submissions from authors from all over. But yeah, always via an agent. So you have that that person you need to get through. There have been various initiatives. And I think there is a lot of debate about how tokenistic the initiatives can be as well, but one that I was part of that I feel really proud of was called right now, which is where your view is kind of looking up, I think you have to be based in the UK. But we should double check that because because it could be open wider. And it's it's kind of like a mixture of kind of workshops and mentoring. So writers can submit a short sample, every single one is read by an editor in house. And then out of all of those that are red 50 have chosen to come to a workshop. And they do three of these workshops a year in different cities all over the UK to make sure that it's completely well as accessible as is that is logistically possible. And there is help out there as well for people that for example, need help with costs, transportation, etc. And they come along, there's like a whole day of amazing workshops and talks. They also get each writer that attends get a one gets a one to one with an editor. So I did quite a few of those workshops. And then at the end 10 writers across those three yearly workshops, get shortlisted, and they each get paired with an editor mentor, who mentors them for a year. And many of those books that have come from that scheme. I think it's been going maybe five years now. That's that many of them have been published in their stories by writers from all over the world. So yes, it's definitely you know, things are opening up. It's still not a level playing field by any means. And you're completely right that there is still this kind of stereotyping, let's say of the types of books we expect to see from people. But there are many amazing editors out there kind of who were, who are really changing things and looking at things differently. And I think as they kind of rise through the ranks and become CEO, eventually, then we, you know, we really will see wholescale chain.

20:17

Yeah, I think it's sort of, you know, the responsibility of both parties. So it's the responsibility of the reader as well to seek out these new narratives. Because ultimately, the end of the day, you know, these publishing houses, they're corporates, and they have to pander to audience demands. So, you know, more initiatives, like the one that you mentioned, more initiatives to get people to read about diverse voices are also important because it all feeds into each other. In India, you know, we sort of didn't have a lot of storytelling about the northeast of India, and it was sort of underrepresented. And now there's a lot of, you know, a lot of stuff happening on social media, a lot of initiatives, indie publishing houses, you know, looking for those voices. And now we see many more of those stories out there. So I think it's a two way street, and hopefully, you know, things will keep changing for the better. I want to know a little bit more about, you know, reader behavior in the UK. So according to you, you know, what are reading habits in the UK? Sort of, you know, are people still buying from bookstores? Are they mostly listening to audiobooks, ebooks? What is it?

21:32

Oh, yes, another good question. Oh, there's been a lot of change, I think, partly because of the pandemic. Obviously, for a while, people weren't allowed to go into bookstores. So I think that has sped up what was already happening, which was a lot of people just buying online. We have one major bookstore, kind of high street bookstore chain, in the UK called Waterstones, and they can really kind of make a book they have, they have kind of a, they can have a really big share on a book in the market. However, for most authors with them, you're lucky if you get one book stocked, they just don't have the space, there's so many books out there. And they have to focus on the books that are already selling. So you get a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, their readers are still definitely going to them. And there has also been a kind of move towards independent bookstores in certain areas, I think where there's more income, essentially, people just like people are supporting their local coffee shops, people are trying to support their local book shops. So that there's kind of these two polar opposites, there's kind of online, get it as cheap as you can. Amazon is the biggest over here. And yeah, and then there's on the other hand, the a few independent stores who were doing what they do really well, and are actually thriving. And then in the middle, you have supermarkets who can sell a lot of copies. And that tends to be the more kind of commercial read books that are already popular authors that are really well known. And that tends to be readers who are doing their weekly shop. And they just, you know, the stereotype is like a stress mum, which is totally a stereotype. But I think this idea that someone who's buying a book as part of their weekly shop, because they don't have the time.

23:38

But that's something we don't have. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. Because

23:42

there's kind of an entertainment aisles so that they'll also be like, you know, PlayStation games and stuff like that. And then books. I mean, they're not they don't have a massive space there, but they are there.

23:54

Yeah, I think the way that Indians buy the groceries is also very different than in the UK. But that definitely, yeah, what kind of genres, you know, are working right now.

24:08

Crime and thriller is always big. It's always the biggest fiction genre. Celebrity books, actually, both fiction and nonfiction are huge. And that's a really big change we've seen over the last kind of 10 years or so is basically anyone with a big platform has a much higher chance of getting published the same here. Yeah, yeah. And then a much higher chance of doing well. It's just the the route by which you speak to readers. And those routes are becoming ever kind of smaller, really, unless you're on social media.

24:49

Yeah, I think that in that way, there's a lot of similarity with, you know, corporate publishing here as well, where you see a lot of influencers, lots of people who already have a channel are getting published. And it makes sense, you know, when when these are businesses at the end of the day. You know, another thing that everybody was concerned about was the penguin and Simon and Schuster merger, which did not happen. What are your sort of what? What are your opinions on this? What's your take, you know, on the way that sort of like this new way of how publishing houses also operating, you know, whether it's sort of commissioning books from influencers or celebrities or pandering to these audience demands, what happens to, you know, other stories, what happens to writers?

25:39

Absolutely, and I think a lot of authors out there rightly feel a lot of anxiety about this. In the end, as we've said, a few times, the big publishers are corporate enterprises. And, you know, if you're owned by shareholders, there's a board, you have to grow year on year, you know, budgets are set. And so you are just chasing where the money is. There is within those corporates, you know, some imprints that are enabled to still look for, you know, undiscovered authors who might not make a lot of money to begin with. But, you know, over time, well, it's seen as important that their work gets out there, but also over time, they will gain a readership. And Hamish Hamilton is an imprint at Penguin, where I used to work and they were absolutely like that, so that there is still some space there. And then, you know, the independent presses are doing really well, in the UK at the moment, it is really tough, because costs have gone up, there's a cost of living crisis at the moment in the UK. And when it comes to books, like paper distribution, and petrol, all of that has really grown. So it's harder for small publishers to to make a living, but some are getting you know, their their books listed in the major prizes. So that there is some attention there for new voices. In the end, I think we have to trust that an amazing new voice will get discovered that Yeah, but it is tough.

27:27

I believe that, you know, if it's good, you know, we mentioned this before, you know, if it's good, it's good, it will cut through the noise, and it will find its readership. So we spoke a little bit about, you know, how, you know, people living outside of the UK, because I know a lot of, you know, writers who want to access that market, just because it's such a, it's a much bigger market, the amount of English language readers we have in India is still very, very small, compared to, you know, the market in the UK and in the US. So, you know, what, do you have any tips on how they can find these agents approach them? Or you know, what kind of stories these agents are looking for what kind of writing these agents are looking for?

28:18

Yes, there's a couple of things I could say on this. So I think it first of all, you know, if you want to find a UK agent, they are very searchable online. And what I would recommend is finding an author who's published in the UK, who you admire, or think is similar to your writing, let's say, and then just look up who their agent is, and approach them. And you can even say, Oh, I noticed that you represent this person. I've written this, you know, would you be interested in seeing it, and each of the agents has a website that says very clearly their submission guidelines, but most of them it's a synopsis in the first three chapters, and then if they want to see more, they will see it, they will, they will request it sorry, but but also, there are a couple of other routes. So, if you have an agent in India, they may well employ a sub agent, who is who is maybe based in the UK, whose job it is to sell in for that agent in the UK. So it could be worth when finding an agent where you're based to check whether they have roots into the UK market themselves, then their kind of shell, you know, tip shouldering the cost for that. Another option is you know, I used to get submissions sometimes from editors are not so much a submission that an editor in India would say I'm publishing this book. We have a sample in English, you know, would you like to read it? Um, so there is sharing. So if you signed with, you know, a multinational, an international publisher, they may well have ways and it's worth talking to your editor then about whether you could explore that together. So yeah, there were a few ways there.

30:17

Yeah, I think you know, you no one just has to do the research and sort of reach out. And it may not be as big of a hurdle as it might seem

30:28

so much online these days, like great advice for writers.

30:33

Yeah. So what do you think is the next opportune opportunity for books?

30:39

Ooh. That's a good question, I'm probably going to need a second. There's some really interesting things are happening in the film and TV world, it feels like without wanting to offend anyone in books, that they're slightly further ahead with their just the way things are produced is so kind of avant garde thinking particularly of the way women are portrayed, I think there's still a feeling certainly in the UK, that, that women just want to read women's fiction or run columns, and that the characters have to be, you know, attractive, and often white, and like sis, and it feels like TV is exploring, particularly TV is exploring kind of current issues much more quickly. And I do wonder if there's a place there for a new publisher, or an imprint that works in a more similar way to film and TV, so maybe has like, a team of writers, for example, and, you know, purposefully slips out their stall as a more kind of avant garde publishing house and really looks at everything from the technology of it to you know, how they speak to readers. And I won't see any more than that, because I'm starting to think maybe I should do this. No, your last, I just need a millionaire investor. Yeah.

32:16

No, and Reese Reese Witherspoon's book club came to mind, you know, the way that she sort of creating this loop, where she's, you know, finding these books, publicizing them, and then like, obviously, boosting their sales because of that, and then using that to sort of make money for herself by licensing or producing the shows. So I definitely feel there's a lot of synergy between books, audio and video, and even the way that books are made, like having a team of writers, you know, that's a new idea, as well. So if you know, an Indian author wants to get published, the you cannot keep bringing it back to this. You know, what would you say about, you know, can we can they appeal to a UK audience without sort of compromising on certain cultural aspects? And which sort of books, you know, from sort of like South Asia, either from South Asians living in the UK or living outside? Have you seen do really well, in the UK?

33:17

That's a good question as well, I don't think that writers will need to compromise on the kind of core of the story, what I would say is, they probably need to have an understanding that for an audience in the UK, or indeed, in any other country that's quite different to theirs, they might not understand certain things, you know, really kind of normal things like you know, the name of, I don't know, a school or something that is just really obvious to you live there. So you might just within your writing need to give a little bit more of an explanation, you know, in a kind of subtle way, so that someone who's not from your country can still understand what you're talking about. I'm trying to think of any books recently, to be honest, I've been, I probably can't answer that one I've been out of haven't really been reading contemporary fiction for a year or so as part of my recovery. So yeah.

34:29

You know, that that's a very interesting thought, you know, because there's a lot of debate and actually, Indian readers get a little irritated when, you know, our writers, our publishing India, give cultural context. So, for example, you know, there'll be books where I write I will say, sorry, and then explain that. Anyway, I know a lot of sort of Indian readers who get a little irritated with that because the idea is still that, you know, when we write a book, we always writing for an audience outside. So I just actually read it was definitely

35:10

the possibility of having a slightly different version. Yeah, that's the UK. I think that makes no sense.

35:20

Yeah. So I was just gonna say that that, you know, usually what happens is there's two different versions. So I just did a very nice book by an Indian author called the newlyweds. And basically, what she does is she follows these three couples who have eloped and who run away from their families. And she follows them for six years. And we sort of see, you know, the repercussions of getting married without family permission, because that's a thing in India. So one of the couples is intercaste. One of them is a lesbian couple, and one of them is an inter religious couple. Andrew has also published in the UK. So, you know, the UK version obviously had a lot of explaining, you know, in a subtle way, as you mentioned, and the Indian version didn't have that much. And I thought that was, you know, a nice way to segregate that.

36:17

I've seen that book around. Yeah, actually.

36:20

Yeah, it's a great book, you must read it. Yeah. Then my last question, then I want to move on to our rapid fire round, which is the last session of of this interview is, I want to know what has been your most, your, what has been your most favorite book that you worked on? Can you tell me about that? Oh, God, I'm not allowed to. One of them.

36:44

Let's say it was special because it one the cost of first novel prize. So Sarah Collins, the confessions of Frannie, Lankton. Okay, not saying it's my favorite, but why not? Because I'm not allowed. But yeah, it's it's about a woman who was enslaved who comes to so it's a historical novel, who comes to Georgia and England. And it's a crime novel, there's a murder. And these are her confessions, or are they amazing novels kind of Gothic, romantic.

37:25

Pick it up. After this. I'm exciting. You know, you've worked on so many different books, fantastic bestsellers hits all of the authors that you must know, it must be a really wonderful space to be in. Okay, so I know we don't have much time. So I'll quickly move it over to our rapid fire session. So what is what's your what's your favorite book of yours?

37:57

Oh, I absolutely loved Barbara Kingsolver is the Poisonwood Bible as a teenager, I think rereading it now, as with many books, there are ways in which it's problematic. But for me, it was just the epic pneus of the novel. And these four sisters and then voices living in the Congo as was as as civil war loomed. And Barbara Kingsolver is a fantastic writer.

38:33

Amazing, I think that the books that we read as children, they always stick with us. If you were to write a book, what would you write it all?

38:45

At the moment, me and a friend, talking about writing a comedic book set in the publishing industry, but that's mainly just for fun.

38:57

No, that would be good. I would love to read something like that. Okay, your favorite genre to publish versus your favorite genre to read.

39:09

I actually both the same. I love reading and I love publishing historical fiction, and all different kinds. So from kind of Wars of the Roses to, you know, Victorian, much more recent, there's something about stepping into a completely different world to your own, and the way in which you write to do that. And then publishing them is is so much fun. There are readers out there who are just as passionate about it. They might not be, you know, massive moneymakers, always, but you get to have so much fun with the cover and with the copy. And yeah, the events that you do. It's yeah, it's the dream

39:54

with you. I love historical fiction. That's my favorite genre to read. So I I'm reading Yeah, that's what I was like, I want to like continue this conversation and get into reading and the books that, you know, we like, but I know you're running. We're running out of time. So the last one is three historical fiction novels you think everybody should read?

40:17

Oh, gosh, that's the hardest question. I think, oh, I shouldn't have a look on my shelves. Oh, of course. Hillary Montel. Yeah. I mean, I'm quite tempted to say all three. She was just a genius. And I think I would probably say bringing up the body's her second one is my Yeah, I think she really like got into her stride. And yeah, but but everyone should read all three. Because, you know, I've got to have the three for one with that. Okay.

40:59

Perfect. Thank you so much, Katie. I would have I have so many questions. This has been so insightful. I would have loved to continue talking to you for hours and hours about books and publishing and editing with this was just

41:14

thank you so much. All right. Thanks, everyone. So for watching.

Aishwarya  41:18

That's not the end of another episode of the book people. Tune in every Thursday for some breakdowns, some truth bombs, and some insightful and real conversations with industry experts about all things books. This podcast is created by Bob. We work with writers and brands to create content across formats, whether it's books, podcasts, newsletters or speech. So get in touch to see how we can help you grow through stories and follow us at bound India on all social media plan. I'm your host Aishwarya is in follow me on LinkedIn where I share many many more insights about books and content. Or you can get in touch with me at Ushuaia at bound india.com If you have any suggestions on topics I should cover, or if you want to book any of my services or consultation calls. Until then, keep writing