Dick Emens was just a young boy when his father, John R. Emens, became the sixth president of Ball State. It was 1945. That same year marked the end of the Second World War—and the beginning of a tremendous period of growth for Ball State.
In this episode, Dick talks about what it was like to grow up on campus during that time. He also reflects on how his father’s transformative leadership and optimistic personality earned him the admiration of our faculty, staff, and students along with a playful nickname.
Dick also shares why he and his wife, Bea, have chosen to remain so committed to Ball State. The couple are attorneys who practice law together. Together, they created the Emens Scholars Program to honor the legacy of President Emens and his wife, Aline. The program provides financial support to a select number of Ball State students entering their freshman year who have demonstrated outstanding leadership in their high schools and in their local communities.
If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review to support the show.
Dick Emens was just a young boy when his father, John R. Emens, became the sixth president of Ball State. It was 1945. That same year marked the end of the Second World War—and the beginning of a tremendous period of growth for Ball State.
In this episode, Dick talks about what it was like to grow up on campus during that time. He also reflects on how his father’s transformative leadership and optimistic personality earned him the admiration of our faculty, staff, and students along with a playful nickname.
Dick also shares why he and his wife, Bea, have chosen to remain so committed to Ball State. The couple are attorneys who practice law together. Together, they created the Emens Scholars Program to honor the legacy of President Emens and his wife, Aline. The program provides financial support to a select number of Ball State students entering their freshman year who have demonstrated outstanding leadership in their high schools and in their local communities.
If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review to support the show.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Welcome back to Our Call to Beneficence. Today, my guest is someone with a distinctive relationship with our university. Dick Emens was just a young boy when his father, Dr. John Emens, became president of Ball State. It was 1945. That same year marked the end of the Second World War and the beginning of a tremendous period of growth here at Ball State. Today, I'm going to talk to Dick about his memories of growing up on our campus. I'm also going to ask him what he remembers about his father's tenure as president. It was a period of transformation and a period of transformative leadership that lasted more than 20 years and involved many significant milestones, including Ball State's formal designation as a university. I want to know what about Ball State inspired Dick and his wife, Bea, to create a scholarship in his father's name—a scholarship that recognizes the leadership of our best and brightest students. I'm also curious to learn why after all these years, Dick and his wife, Bea, both of whom are attorneys who practice law together, why they have chosen to remain so involved, so engaged with the life of our university. Dick, welcome and thank you for joining me from your law office in Columbus, Ohio.
[DICK EMENS]:
Thank you, Geoff. It's nice to be here and talk with you.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
So, during our conversation today, I want to ask you some questions and hear about your recollections about your father's extraordinary impact on Ball State University. But before we talk about his leadership here, would you please tell me, tell our listeners about your father's family and your father's career before he came here to Muncie.
[DICK EMENS]:
My father was the oldest of nine children. He grew up on a small farm in southern Michigan. He was always courageous. I was thinking about this as I was looking forward to talking with you, Geoff, and I remembered one story. We have a picture of my father at age five, with long blonde curls down to this shoulder. And the story is—and my grandmother confirmed this to me many years ago—that she wanted him to keep those curls because she really liked them. He didn't want to keep the curls, but she insisted that he go to school. He had to walk half a mile to get to the country school, so he did. He walked to school. He went in with his curls, on the way home he rolled over and over in a briar-patch. And when he got home, he got some pretty words, but they cut off his curls. And I think that was one of the early indications of what a good problem-solver he was.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Right. And a courageous person. So, I understand he graduated high school at the age of 16. And even before he earned his own college degree, he was a junior high school principal in Michigan and a high school principal in Michigan.
[DICK EMENS]:
Yeah. He—he's from Michigan. He was only there for initially for two years. He had five jobs because the only money he had to go into college was from selling some of the sheep that he took care of on their farm. So, he had five jobs during the two years … And I don't know how he got all that done except he was always highly motivated. And then, he started teaching in a one-room school house in Grosse Pointe before that was a well-known area. And then went from there, as you said, to being principal. And then he got his master's and then he got his doctorate while he was working full-time.
He got his PhD, including having to study German from Michigan while he was working. And then, to continue that, he went to Detroit. First, he went to Lansing. He was in charge of teacher qualification for the State of Michigan. Then he went to Detroit and when I say "he”—he, my mother, my brother, and I, of course, were with him. And he taught at Wayne State, and then became the Deputy Superintendent of the Schools in Detroit, in charge of hiring and firing all the teachers in the Detroit public school system.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Which was a very large—continues to be a very large urban school system. And then, somewhat of a non-traditional candidate, he was selected to be the president at Ball State and began his service here. Your father began his service here on August 1st, 1945. And my recollection or my understanding was you were only 10 years at the time. So, what do you recall about those early years when you moved to Muncie and he began his service as the president of Ball State?
[DICK EMENS]:
A couple of things. One, I know really liked it because we got to see my father more than we had. When we were living in Detroit, it took him an hour to drive downtown, an hour to drive home. He'd leave at 6:00 in the morning. He didn't get home until 7:00 at night. Detroit's further north than Muncie. And it was dark. So, when we were in Muncie, he was right across the street in the Administration Building. And even though he was working, we had the feeling that we were with him. So, I was glad that we made that move.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. And as you said, your home was just directly across University Avenue from the Administration Building, and when had a conversation a couple weeks to prepare for this conversation, you told me that you could tell—you and your brother could tell when your father was coming home from dinner. Tell us about that.
[DICK EMENS]:
That was—we—I had a paper route and then, of course, my brother, who was five years younger, would be—we would be pretty hungry by about 6:00. And there was a room that looked right at—directly across the street at the—at his office, which was the first office to the west of the entrance to the administration building and we could see the light in his office. And when that light went off, we would tell my mother, “OK, get ready.” And then, he would—we'd watch him walk across the street and come in. And sometimes he'd say, "Is dinner ready? Let's eat." And we were all excited. Sometimes he would say, "Give me a few minutes." And he would just walk in, go down the basement, and we would hear this pounding and what it turned out to be, of course, we learned and it'd stay a mystery, he would crack walnuts and hickory nuts on a brick with a hammer on days that he was particularly frustrated. So, when he came up to dinner, he would have a smile and my mother always insisted that dinner would be positive experience. So that was how he figured to solve that one.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Right. So, he was taking out some of the frustrations from maybe a difficult day on the job but doing it in order so that he wouldn’t take those frustrations out on you or your brother or your mother, I see.
[DICK EMENS]:
Exactly right.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah.
[DICK EMENS]:
Exactly.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So, I understand that your father and your mother really took great pride —they invested themselves in developing personal relationships with every faculty member on campus, every faculty member and his or her spouse. And one of the ways that they developed those relationships was they would regularly invite some faculty and their families to your home for a meal or for Sunday tea. Do you recall those events and, if so, what do you remember about them?
[DICK EMENS]:
I do recall that. I mean, that was the painful experience for my mother because I think it was the first Sunday in May, they would have a tea when all the faculty—and I thought it was half of the administration but I know faculty members were invited to this tea. In the first year, we were of course— I would've been, yeah, I was 10 or 11 and my brother would have been six and we were a little nervous meeting all these people we didn't know but we just shake their hand and I'd say, "I'm Dick Emens." He'd say, "I'm, David Emens." They'd walk by and go on in the house. But the second year and the years after that, when they came to the door, they would say, "I bet you don't remember me, do you?" And I was not quick enough at that age to come back with a—later, I should've asked my father then, because he would had a solution. I remember asking him sometime later what he did when he was president and people would come up to him and do that. He said, "Well, I just look them right in the eye and say, “I'm John Emens, and I'm very glad to meet you. Would you tell me your name again, please?" But I wasn't sharp enough to do that at 11.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So—and those would happen on a regular basis every year in other respect. Your father, really, and your mother were invested in those relationships.
[DICK EMENS]:
Oh, yeah. And serious, very, very serious about that and they would also—and there were jokes about this, I learned later, they would, on Sunday, after our Sunday dinner, they would go visit faculty and staff and the administration in their home and they didn't call ahead. They would just knock on the door. And the story was about some faculty member who was really upset about it because he or she was in her pajamas and some things but they were—our father was—in addition to being a great problem-solver, he was a people person, Geoff. I mean he cared. He cared about all the people on the campus so much that this is what they did. He thought it was a community and they should all know each other.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So, as you suggest, I suspect some of the faculty members and their families were delighted to see your parents and others probably surprised and maybe not quite as happy.
[DICK EMENS]:
Exactly.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So—and I also understand you know, you said your father cared about people. He cared about the students. Understood that our principal responsibility is to create a positive transformative educational experience for our students. And our students had a nickname for your father. What was his nickname?
[DICK EMENS]:
Happy Jack. Happy Jack, and they apparently talked about it and they didn't say it to his face but he knew about it and he liked it. I can remember talking to him about that. He said, "Oh yeah, I'm so glad they do that." Because as you know, I'm sure, sometime students say some negative things about the president, of course, not while you're there, but in the old days, they used to. But he was very glad that they were calling him Happy Jack.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And it was prompted because he would always project an air of being happy and positive. He was an inherently optimistic, positive person.
[DICK EMENS]:
That's true. He was. He—when he walked around on the campus, I mean, I would go with him to sporting events. I mean, you know, we were living right on campus, if you will, and I went to Burris and we played our basketball games, our first basketball games in Ball State gym. We played our tennis game on the Ball State courts—and when I would be with him, he would walk up to the people with a smile and always greeting—I mean, this is what he did. And I know that there were times when it was very tough for him to do that. But positive mental attitude was a part of what he thought was important. And if my brother or me were in the doldrums or something, we would hear him about why we should be smiling.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So, tell me about your mother. Was she—did she embrace this responsibility and a busy life with the same enthusiasm and zest and joy that your father did?
[DICK EMENS]:
Yes. They were both incredibly highly motivated people. And his—he was on a mission—I was thinking about that. When he came to Muncie, he was on a mission. I mean, I could tell that. I remember when we went on a trip—I think it was because this part where he would—for a teachers' association meeting and he would take us with him. And when we got home, 8:00, Sunday night or whatever it was, he'd go across the street. He'd go across the street to the Ad Building—and I’d say, "Where are you going?" He says, "Well, I got to get through all the mail before Monday morning." In those days, they didn't have emails and all that. And so, I said to him one time, "How do you get through that mail?" He says, "Well, first I take the piece on the top and I look at it and I resolve that. And then I put that in another file or in the waste basket and then I take the second one." And to go to your specific question about my mother, she was as highly motivated. I would say that she looked at her role as supportive. Because I think in those days, that's the way it was supposed to be. But she was always figuring out how she could help him do what he wanted to do to help make the college better. I mean, I know this. I mean, it was—sometimes I think my brother and I thought that we weren't as important as the university. And I think that's one reason that I now love it so much because I've had the chance to be involved and see what's happened and what great things have happened at Ball State.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. And I'll follow up with that in just a moment. But as you say, he came here with a mission, you know, really with kind of an ambitious goal. And your father, President Emens, served as the president until 1968, more than 20 years. A couple of statistics, during his tenure at Ball State, the enrollment increased from only about a thousand students to more than 13,000 students. The institution added new colleges including the College of Architecture, which was a great achievement during his tenure. And Ball State transitions form a college to a university. What was it—you talked a moment ago about the discipline, the basic discipline, but what else about your father's leadership, his character, his qualities—what enabled him to facilitate this extraordinary progress at Ball State?
[DICK EMENS]:
He was both a planner and a doer, Geoff. I mean, he was so organized, and he would plan what he wanted to happen and then he would figure out how to implement it. The—in The Ball State Story, that—a book about Ball State, the chapter on him, has it specifically talked about and I have heard it—I heard him say this. He said, "If you want to have something done. If you want to get something done, it's very simple what you do. First, you figure out what want to do. Then, you look around and see what your resources are. And third, you mobilize the resources and get it done. And if you don't understand that, go back to point one." I mean, it was—this is—but—he planned. I mean—and at the university, we saw that our cabin up in northern Michigan, up north at Traverse City when we were going to put on an addition onto the original cabin. He figured out what was going to happen, how it's going to end. He even planned when he was going to take a break. He would—when he was up there, and he would work. He would have a lot of reading. This is supposed to be a vacation, right? So, he's out there for maybe a week. I think it took one week during the summer. And he would work on material that have been mailed from like 8:00 until 11:00. And then, he would sit on the beach from 11:00 until 11:30. And then, he would swim to get exercise. I mean, he was organized. He was organized. And he planned and he implemented. He had an unusual—unusually motivated man, that's what he was.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. And it sounds like a relatively simple formula. Plan, identify the resources, and then get it done. It's not complicated. It just—you just have to do it, right?
[DICK EMENS]:
Right.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. And as you said a moment ago, it was all driven by the motivation because of his abiding concern for the people, particularly the students.
[DICK EMENS]:
Right. Exactly right. I mean, it—yeah, he was an inspiration. He really was. I mean, I feel very fortunate that he was my father and that she was mother, because they were—they leaned on my brother and me in ways that we were both able to live our lives in a way that has mostly been positive. And to see—and whenever I think about them, it's a very positive thought of two people who were on a mission. Yeah. He was on a mission to make Ball State great. That was his mission.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And it wasn't confined to just the campus and the institution. I—your father was also very involved in the Muncie community, in supporting and serving the community that surrounds our campus. And there are lots of manifestations of that commitment but probably the largest and most tangible manifestation of that commitment is the Emens Campus and Community Auditorium. Why did your father believe that it was important for the faculty and staff here at Ball State, why did he think it was important for us to be engaged with the Muncie community as well?
[DICK EMENS]:
Now, I don't remember talking with him about that, Geoff. I know that he—I know he believed that because I remember—I mean, he headed up United Way for the City of Muncie. And I remember he—one morning, like, "Where are you going, dad?" "Well, I'm going to—I don't know the name of the factory—but I'm going there. I want to meet those people. I haven't had the—I know the president but I haven't had the chance to talk to the people who work there."
He believed—I think he believed that the entire area was important, so that both Ball State and Muncie could grow together. I mean, when I think it through. I mean, I've seen colleges and—where I went even, where they try to isolate themselves and they—and my father just didn't believe in that. I mean, he was outgoing in a sense of trying—he was inclusive, yeah. He was inclusive. And he wanted to have—he wanted to have the support of the city because they were—I mean, Ball State was growing. I think when he got there, there were what? Eighty-some acres and when he left there were 10 times that much. You have the annexed land. I mean, it wasn't all some theoretical thing. I'm sure he thought that as Ball State grew, that would be helpful if the community were on board but it was more just having everyone that was involved with Ball State believe in how great it could be. And I think that's his big picture of it although I didn't talk to him about it.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. And as you know, we still continue to recognize and appreciate the importance of a collaborative partnership, a collaborative relationship with our friends and neighbors here in Muncie and East Central Indiana. So, after your father retired, your parents decided to stay in Muncie. Why did they stay here?
[DICK EMENS]:
You know, that was one of the few disagreements that we had in our family. As he—near retirement, he talked about how—he thought that he and my mother should move back to Michigan, because he didn't want to be—he didn't want to stand in the way of the incoming president. And having been there as long as he was, he—and he talked to us about this. And all three of us, my mother, my brother, and I argued with him that, we want to stay in Muncie. They had such good friends there. Ball Hospital was there. The community was there. And like that took about two years. And he finally realized—and he wanted to do some work after he retired that involved education, which he then did. And so, he had—he was able to then have an office and work with one of the commissions that he had been involved with. But that—anyway, he didn't want to be in the way. I'll tell you another story about that one.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Please, do.
[DICK EMENS]:
My family had been members of the Presbyterian Church, which is just down—was then built down University Avenue—not University, Riverside.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
On Riverside, yeah.
[DICK EMENS]:
And when he was getting older and realized that he was going to die, he was very concerned because he had been friends—our family had been very good friends of a minister named, Lou Gishler, who was a very special minister. And my father really wanted Lou Gishler to say whatever the minister says at a funeral. But he didn't believe that that would—that that was what he should do. That was not the right thing because they had a new young minister and he did not want to dis the new young minister by having Lou Gishler come back in and take over. So, he set it up and they worked it out so that the new minister would do or say whatever the minister's supposed to say at the funeral. However, my father wrote the words that he wanted the young minister to say because he didn't want him to say things that were inaccurate. So, he even planned—however, he said he even planned his own funeral.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
He was a planner and a doer as you said. So, I understand you had a relationship with Frank Bracken, who is one of Frank C. Ball's grandsons. And Frank Bracken once told you what his grandfather, Frank C. Ball, thought of your father. Please tell us, what did Frank C. Ball say about President John Emens?
[DICK EMENS]:
Frank Bracken and I were really, really good friends. Several others played football in your front yard, Geoff, in the old days. And Frank and I were on the tennis team together, the basketball team, the track team, and then we roomed together in law school. And one year—that year when we were rooming in law school and—I remember we had a couple of drinks. He told me that his grandfather—when his grandfather was on his deathbed—and what Frank Bracken told me was that these were his last words, but of course I wasn't there and I don't know. That [Frank] told whomever he was talking to, “I think we ought to hire that young man from Michigan to be president.” And the reason that was important was because there had been—my father had been interviewed, I think, in 1943. And then there was a hiatus because of the war and there wasn't a new president. And so, for this long time—and during that time, my father—I know, he talked—he had a job offer. Anyway, but that's what Frank told me Frank C. Ball had said that day about my father.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
It's pretty good advice. It turned out to be a wise recommendation.
[DICK EMENS]:
Let me mention, I mean, the Ball family, the Ball family, as you know has been so generous to Ball State and Frank Bracken was the, what? Chairman of the board. His father, Alex—there was something else that I didn't mention about my father. My father was always—he used to say, "I try to find people who are smarter than I am to work with here at Ball State so that I can learn from them and so that they can help make this place great. But the great relationship and with my mother and Rosemary Bracken, Frank's mother, they either gave or sold at a very low price, the lot right across from the house that you live in, where Don and Claire Park live now when my father retired, encouraging them to stay, encouraging my parents to stay in Muncie and be a part of—very close to the university. But there isn't any way to say enough about the Ball family and what they've done. And I think you know that everybody who knows about Ball State knows that. But their continuing interest is just something that is wonderful.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
It is extraordinary. And it is distinctive. In fact, it might be unique, the relationship between Ball State University, for now, for over 100 years and with the Ball family and the members of the extended Ball family and their foundations. It's the longest continuous relationship between a public university and a family, a philanthropic relationship and so we, to this day, continue to be indebted to all of the members of the extended Ball family and their foundations for their continued generous support. It enables us to continue the mission that their—that the Ball brothers and their wives had more than 100 years ago. So, your father passed away in 1976. And only a week after he died, you created a scholarship fund in his memory. Why did you decide to do that? You were still a young man.
[DICK EMENS]:
I thought that he should be honored for what he had done and—as a leader. I mean, I admired him so much. And I thought that again was the time to do something. And fortunately—it was very fortunate , John Pruis, the then President agreed, and Oliver Bumb and the committee involved and set it up. So, I was very appreciative. But the reason was because I just thought my father had been a great leader and I thought it ought to be recognized on a continuing basis.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And now, more than 40 years later, you and your wife, Bea, who are very busy—still very busy with your law practice, you're also still actively involved with selecting the outstanding students who will become Emens Scholars. Why is it important for the two of you to be engaged with this scholarship program and with these students?
[DICK EMENS]:
I think it's because they're opportunities. They're opportunities. Geoff, my father always said be ready and look for opportunities. It's an opportunity to help continue recognizing the legacy of my father and mother. It's an opportunity to bring many really strong students to Ball State. I mean, I just finished reading this week, last night before last, we had 333 applications for the Emens Leadership Scholarship this year. I read every one of them, including the essays. I mean, there were 250 of those young people who are absolutely incredible. And we're only able to give 15 scholarships but that's better than the 10 that we gave in the past and better than the five we started with in 1977. So, it's an opportunity to bring great students to Ball State. It's an opportunity to help students come to Ball State with a scholarship. And it's particularly an opportunity, I think, for us to work with really dedicated people. When I think of my great friend Dick Hutson, who, as you know, just passed. We worked closely with him, with Don Park, with Oz Nelson, with Steve Anderson, …. I could go on …. Kay Stickle. We had a team of 12 people that just raised a million dollars to be matched by the George and Frances Ball Foundation. Betsy Mills, Morgan Shields, and I'm sure I'm missing a couple but—that were on the team but we had over 130 people. And when we reached out to them, they gave—130 people that gave and when we reached out to them, their response was just tremendous. So, it's an opportunity to be involved with great people and people at the university and the foundation have been so helpful. Mark Helmus and Brian Meekin, Will Cooper. They—it's an opportunity to work with some dedicated people and what we believe is a worthwhile cause. How do you say that? And to support education and to be involved with Ball State. I mean, I love Ball State. I mean, I grew up, and as I said, on the campus. I went to Burris, graduated from Burris. I even took a course at Ball State. College algebra they taught at the college, so I took a course at Ball State. So, I guess the short answer is we liked it because of the opportunities.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Well, I want to use this opportunity to express my appreciation to you and to Bea and to the others that you've identified. Thank you for your work. I know a few months ago, you set out to raise an additional million dollars to fund more scholarships, like you just described and, you know, relatively short period of time because of their generosity and the generosity of so many others you've exceeded that goal. But I know that doesn't—I mean, that doesn't mean you'll stop. Second thing I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity on a regular basis to meet those students. And to anybody who's listening, if you have any doubts about the future of our country and the future of our world, just come meet the Emens scholars and it will reassure you that the next generation of young women and young men are prepared to help us solve the problems that we're all facing in the future. It's an encouraging group of people. So let me ask you the—go ahead, please.
[DICK EMENS]:
I just wanted to say, thing that we had 24 people who set up endowed funds as a part of this effort. Twenty-four. So, we now have 24 and 15, whatever, 39, is that what that works out to
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yup.
[DICK EMENS]:
Endowed funds supporting the Emens Scholars program. That's because people believe in my parents and what they thought and what they did and believe in Ball State and what it's doing and what you're doing. I mean, you just get a good feeling knowing that, yeah, it's cool. Why are we involved? Because of all the good things that have happened, because of what's going on, and I thank you for what you're doing. And I interrupted you and I apologize.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
No. That's okay. You're kind, and please know they also respond to your call and to Bea's call because they have so much respect and affection and gratitude for the two of you for starting this and continuing to support it for so many years.
[DICK EMENS]:
Dave Owen and Mark Ervin and some other people who I'm going to think of later because—but understand that there were many, many people who support this program, that support the Emens Leadership Scholarship Program. And John Emert, the Dean of the Honors College, who chairs the 10-member committee, has done a wonderful job leading that group and helping to expand what we do in the two meetings that we have. And I've told you before, I so appreciate and the students appreciate when you come to the luncheon and the dinner. I mean, those are just exciting events. It's exciting to be involved with young people and reading all those resumes with the essay. When these young people talk about leadership and they talk about Ball State. And they talk about Ball State with reverence and how they're looking forward to coming to Ball State to increase their leadership. It's just exciting. It's just exciting.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
It is. It's exciting and gratifying. So, let me ask you one last question. It's about Beneficence and it really follows on what we're talking about here and it's the same question that I ask each of my guests. Of course, you know, Beneficence is the beautiful, iconic statue that symbolizes our commitment to enduring values, including gratitude. So beneficence, as you know, means doing good for other people through service and through philanthropy, exactly what we're talking about. So, to conclude our conversation, please tell us what does beneficence—what does beneficence mean to you?
[DICK EMENS]:
Beneficence to me, it is gratitude. Gratitude. I mean, I saw Beneficence, it was just down the corner from where I lived. When I went to school, I’d go by it every day and so on and that's why … I mean, I think about the Ball family, and how honored I was to be able to meet the last living Ball brother, George Ball. But I think of gratitude and I don't think enough people today are grateful for what we have and what happens. And when you think of Ball State and what the Ball brothers did by making that gift, and what they've continued to do, and we've talked about it today. But I'm so glad that you're focused on beneficence, because if people focus on that in what we have, rather than what we don't have, and appreciate what we have, rather than what we don't have, Ball State, Muncie, a lot of places are going to be better. So anyway, that's what I think of is gratitude.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
So, thank you, Dick. I want to thank you for spending some time with us today. This conversation, it's always good to be with you even if virtually. It's—and the conversation, has been for me and I hope for everyone who has listened, it's been informative and it's been inspiring. Thank you, Dick.
[DICK EMENS]:
Thank you very much for the opportunity.