Michael Lewis was hired as Ball State’s new men’s basketball coach in March. Coach Lewis’ arrival ushers in a new chapter of leadership for Ball State Athletics. It’s also an exciting new chapter for Michael, who has returned to his home state after spending the past three years serving as an assistant coach at UCLA.
In this episode, Coach Lewis talks about his youth playing basketball in Jasper, Indiana, his days as a star point guard for IU, and his experience as an assistant coach at the Division I Level for the past 18 years.
He also shares his impressions of this year’s Cardinals, which games this coming season have him most excited, and why he wants his players to view him as more than just their coach.
If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review to support the show.
Michael Lewis was hired as Ball State’s new men’s basketball coach in March. Coach Lewis’ arrival ushers in a new chapter of leadership for Ball State Athletics. It’s also an exciting new chapter for Michael, who has returned to his home state after spending the past three years serving as an assistant coach at UCLA.
In this episode, Coach Lewis talks about his youth playing basketball in Jasper, Indiana, his days as a star point guard for IU, and his experience as an assistant coach at the Division I Level for the past 18 years.
He also shares his impressions of this year’s Cardinals, which games this coming season have him most excited, and why he wants his players to view him as more than just their coach.
If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review to support the show.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Hello, I'm Geoff Mearns and I have the good fortune to serve as the President of Ball State University. On today's episode of my podcast, I'm going to have a conversation with Michael Lewis. In March, Michael was hired as our university's new head coach of our men's basketball team. His arrival on our campus was met with great enthusiasm from Cardinal fans, and I was pretty excited too. This is a new chapter of leadership for Ball State men's basketball. It's also an exciting new chapter for Michael and his family. Michael has returned to Indiana after spending the past three years serving as an assistant coach at UCLA. Prior to his time in California, Michael coached at Stephen F. Austin, Eastern Illinois, Butler and Nebraska. Michael's years as a coach have been shaped by his formative experiences as a standout high school and college basketball player. Under the direction of coach Bob Knight, Michael played basketball for Indiana University from 1996 to 2000 finishing at that time, as IU's all-time leader in assists. As the Cardinals prepare for the season, I'm going to talk to Michael about his background and what's in store for his players and for Ball State basketball fans. Michael, welcome. And thank you for joining me today.
Thank you so much for having me here.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
No, I'm excited to be here.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Good.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
When you call, I have to answer, right?
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
You don't have to [brief laughter], but I appreciate that you do. So, let's start with Indiana. Your roots are here in Indiana. You were raised in Jasper, which we know is a small city in Southwestern Indiana, where you and your brother Brian grew up around athletics, playing sports. Tell us about growing up and playing sports as a kid?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yeah, it was both my father and my mother were educators. My mom was an elementary school teacher. My dad taught and coached in high school until he became the athletic director. So we were just always around sports, whether it was basketball or, you know, you tag along, you know, in the neighborhood, you play baseball, tennis ball, you know, flag football, like whatever we did, we were active, I think, much more active than kids are today where they're sitting behind the iPads. But I just remember we would go out and play and, you know, you eat lunch at a buddy's house and you're just home for dinner when -- and you know, it was a really cool place to grow up. It's a very proud community, very supportive community and really everything that they do in Jasper, very hardworking. And it was a really cool place to grow up. I didn't have the opportunity to grow up anywhere else, but I couldn't imagine, you know, a better place to grow up than what we had there in Jasper. And then being able to compete at the high school level, you know, for Jasper, I was very proud to wear that uniform and have the success that we had during my time in high school. And then it led to, you know, what was next, but just a very, you know, proud, hardworking community.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And I understand there are a lot of folks down in Jasper who are now flying Ball State flags in their front yard.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
I think Ball State has gotten a little bit more popular down there [brief laughter].
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
That's great. And what you're saying is I remember growing up as a kid and probably like you, you played whatever sport was in season. If it was fall, you were playing sandlot football. If it was the winter, you were playing basketball, spring, summer, you're playing baseball or tennis.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
That's just what you did, whatever the season was you just kind of rolled with it. Now, I gravitated towards basketball because of, you know, what it was in my family and my dad coaching and having access to a gym. Like I didn't, you know, after school, like I didn't get on a bus and go home. Like I got on the bus and took the bus to the high school. And so, you know, when I was younger, my dad also taught girls’ tennis. And so I would get dropped off. I'd go to the girls' tennis court, I'd, you know, run around in the field, do whatever. And then, you know, when he was coaching basketball, I went to the gym and like, whether I was watching the high school team practice, or I took my ball and I went upstairs and was shooting, or as I got a little bit older some of the high school kids that were just playing pickup basketball games or the wrestling team, the football team, whether I was lifting weights during the winter, you know, I'd get to play with them. You know, they probably, you know [brief laughter], probably weren't really happy having some fourth or fifth grader run around playing, but it allowed me at that age to compete against bigger, stronger athletes and allowed, I think, my game to grow.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So like you, I gravitated, but I gravitated in high school to be a distance runner [brief laughter]. And I did that because the JV basketball coach, when I was a sophomore in high school, cut me from the basketball team. I didn't make the team [brief laughter].
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
See you're wanting to run. And we always tried to stay away from running. We looked at running as punishment, right? And so, I always tried to stay away from that.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. My sport was your punishment [brief laughter]. So you finished your high school basketball career having earned a spot on Indiana's all time high school scoring list. So given your success at Jasper, of course you were recruited and decided to play at IU, what was it like to play for the Hoosiers in a state that so reveres basketball, as I think I've heard you say the folks here in Indiana think they invented basketball.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, they might have [brief laughter]. They might have. It was an unbelievable experience. The recruiting landscape was very different at that time. I think it was much more regional. Like you didn't -- I couldn't go home and watch a UCLA game on TV, you know, when I was growing up. So you got the old Channel 4, you got IU, Purdue, you got Notre Dame football games during the fall. And so it was much more regional. And at that time, with IU’s success, Coach Knight was such a large figure. Like he dominated this state as far as, you know, recruiting. So if you were a basketball player growing up during my era it was kind of like, hey, if Coach Knight wants you, like, that's where you're going.
Now, there was a few that, you know, went to Purdue and had success, but it was -- he really kind of had his pick, you know, so to speak at that time. So when I came time for me to -- I decided when I was a junior in high school, I remember going up and, you know, telling coach I wanted to be a Hoosier. And, you know, it was from that point on, I was 17 years old. Like when you do that in this state, your life changes. You know like you kind of get adopted by the state. And I think you've seen some of that since I've been back here. Like, it's a really cool thing. It's a bunch of responsibility, but you know, growing up in this state and then having the chance to play in Indiana was a really special experience because you are kind of like everybody loves the Hoosiers, right? But when you're one of them, so to speak, like there's a different type of relationship and it's, you know, one like that I've exploited [brief laughter] my entire adult life. I really, I don't think I'm sitting here talking to you and I'm not your head coach if I didn't have that experience of playing at Indiana.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So in one of your first practices at IU, Coach Knight gave you a choice, right? He gave you a choice—
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
I should have never told you that story.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. Well, you're going to have to tell us again now for everyone out here. He gave you a choice about your role on the team.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yeah.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Tell us about that conversation.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, I like you, you had mentioned, I was -- when I was in high school, I shot a lot of baskets, you know, I shot --
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And some of them went in?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yeah. Some of them went in. And so I scored a lot of points and that's kind of, you know, when you're 17, 18 years old, that's kind of how I define myself as a player. And so I get, you know, I go to Indiana and we're in our first or second practice and coach Knight calls me over and puts his arm around me. And he's like, Mike, you want to play a lot or you want to play a little? You know, and I'm a freshman. So you know, coach, I want to play a lot. And he says, well, quit shooting the effing ball, right? And so [brief laughter], I look at that now as like, from a coaching standpoint, like if I said that now our guys would be in the transfer portal you know in heartbeat, like, you know, a coach has taken my game, this and that.
But he went ahead and continued on like, hey, like, you know, Andrae Patterson, I think can really score, you know, Neil Reed was there at the time, you know he's got the ability to score. And then a recruit who came in with me named A.J. Guyton. He's like, I think AJ's going to have a chance to be a really good player. And he's got the ability to score. He said, what I don't have is, I don't have a leader on this team. So if you can be one of the toughest guy on the court every night, you can get us into offense, you know, be a leader, be my voice on the court and in the locker room, he goes, you'll play as much as you want for four years.
Now, if you want to shoot the ball, you can sit next to me. And so you know, then, you know, that's probably what I'm proud of the most as a player. Like, I have a pretty true understanding of who I was as a player. Like I wasn't those guys, like I wasn't an NBA player. I wasn't a pro. But I could carve out a role to help our team win in Indiana. And I think, you know, Coah is, one of his things that made him who he was, was he saw things and was able to get things out of people that they may not have seen in themselves as they entered college. So he saw, you know, something in me from a leadership standpoint and my ability to connect guys on the team and be a leader that maybe as I entered Indiana, I didn't know I could do. I just, I define myself as a player, as a guy that shot the ball and scored points and -- he saw something much different.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So and you've also not only were you coached by Bob Knight, but you've had the chance to work for some other high-profile coaches, Brad Stevens at Butler, then most recently Mick Cronin at UCLA. What about -- what did you learn from those other coaches that now you bring to your own coaching style or your own approach to coaching?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, all those guys are much more similar than they are different and, you know, people always kind of shake their head or give me a funny look when I talk about Bob Knight and Brad Stevens being similar, because their demeanors are very different. But what they wanted in their program, the type of people that they wanted in their program, the discipline, the accountability, the tough, hardworking, overachieving individuals that you want on a basketball team, or you want working for your Fortune 500 company or you want here at this university, they wanted on their basketball team. Now how they went about pulling all those things from each player were vastly different, but what they wanted and what they were truly about on a day-to-day basis were very much the same. So you know, I've pulled, you know, tons of things from all those individuals. Like, I want us to have a tough hard-nosed team that doesn't beat themselves. You know, I want us to be disciplined on offense. I want us to understand what good shots are, the value of not turning the ball over defensively. I want us to be really hard to score against. I want us to make teams uncomfortable. And I want to do it over and over and over, you know, basketball in general is a game of mistakes, but victory favors the team making the least. That was on as a sign [brief laughter] on our locker room wall when I was in college and those things, you know, it stuck with me, but it is true. And so I just want to develop a team that whether we go on the road or teams come here and play us in Worthen that they know when they walk out there it's not going to be easy.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So last year, you're coaching for UCLA, the year before UCLA gets into the Final Four. Last spring, when you were talking to us about this job, you were playing in the Sweet 16. Why did you want to leave a storied program like UCLA and come to be the head men's basketball coach at Ball State University?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, this is home. Like I've talked to you about that before. Like, this is home. This is, you know, I think an unbelievable opportunity for me to be a head coach here at this university. I do feel like what you just said. Like, I feel like I had one of the -- if not the best assistant coach job in the country, you know, you live in Los Angeles and the [brief laughter] the weather's great, taxes are bad, but the weather's great, right?
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Traffic is not so great.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yeah. Traffic's not great either. But you know, you walk into an historic venue with 11 national championship banners. You know, all the John Wooden, you know, all the, you know, you have 42 now first-round draft picks, you know, pictures up on the wall looking down on you every day and just the history of that program. So to have played in Indiana and to have coached at UCLA, you know, I felt like really special opportunities. But this is, you know, coming back here to Indiana is home and giving me an opportunity to be a head coach and to lead a program, you know, like you've heard me say before, like to lead a program in a state where basketball means so much I think gives you a leg up. And then when you combine the fact that, you know, I'm connected with all the powers that be in basketball in this state. You know, I know the high school coaches, I know the quality of coaching they're getting, I know the AAU programs and the leaders of those programs and the quality of coaching there. And when you combine all those things, you know, this was not -- it wasn't hard to say yes to.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. One of the things I remember about the program that we had when we announced here on campus that you were joining us in response to one of the questions, you kind of summed up your answer with a simple statement, which is that you didn't come home to Indiana to lose. And that certainly got everyone in the room pretty fired up. So, you've now been on the job a few months. You've got to know the campus, our culture, you've got to know your players and your staff. What are your impressions of the team that's going to be on the court in a few months? And what are your expectations? Realistically, what are your expectations for this season?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, I think what we have is a group that is really bought in right now. Now the challenge is to keep that connectivity and that buy in when things get hard, like we haven't played any games. There hasn't been a ton of adversity. You know, Mom or Dad or Uncle Smitty, or whoever's not calling them, like, why aren't you playing? Why aren't you getting more shots? But we've got a really connected team that is very bought to what we're trying to do. These guys I think have a strong desire to win.
Now, I don't think they completely understand everything that it takes to win at a consistent level … at Ball State and in the MAC and in college basketball today. But that's coaching, that's our job to teach those things and to hold them accountable to those things and demand those things to where they experience that winning. And then it just, it kind of catches fire and moves on. But we've got a group of guys that want to win and it's our job to not only teach them how to win, but then put them in positions where they can be successful. They get a taste of that, and then it kind of snowballs.
But you know, I don't really have expectations for this season. I've never, as an assistant, I’ve never had expectations. I don't ever want to put a ceiling on a team. You know, I don't know how good we can be. You know, I don't know. I think there's a lot of variables that can go into whether or not this season, you know, I'll determine as a success or a failure. But there's a lot of things that can happen between now and March that play into that. But I do like our guys' work ethic and how they are approaching each day. We, I wouldn't say we've had a bad day of practice yet. Now there's been you know, a session or two that could have been better. And they've always kind of responded when they got prompted to, and things got better. So, I like the group that we have. And I like, you know, our mindset as we head into it, but like I've told them it's easy right now, you know, like some of the -- you know, and I'm very honest and up front with them, like, hey, here's the knocks on you guys. You know, here's what I've been told about you guys. Like, how are you going to respond when we get punched in the mouth? How are you going to respond to a loss or adversity within a game? You know, are we going to come together? Are we going to start pointing fingers and blame everybody and splinter apart. Like that's going to be the true challenge and that will determine how good a team we can have.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. I want to follow up on something you said just a moment ago, you've never been a head coach. What's the difference between being an assistant coach, the top assistant--?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
All the problems fall on my desk now [brief laughter].
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah, that's right. There's nobody else to call, right?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yeah [brief laughter].
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So what is the difference between being a head coach? How have you made that adjustment? How have you prepared for that different role?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, I think I spent 18 years trying to prepare for all those things, but I don't -- you know, everybody that I ever worked for has always said, like, you know, you're never prepared until you go through it. Like, there's just certain things. I'm sure the same thing as being the president at university there's things that come up, you're like, eh, nobody told me about this, you know? But, you know, every decision comes on your desk, whether it's, you know, it's a small decision or a major. And I just try to approach everything with, you know, the best decision that's in the best interest of our program. Like, I know what I want to accomplish here. I know where this program can go. So every decision that I make I have that in mind of where the program we want to be and where we want to -- you know, the type of team we want to become and ultimately the type of program that is going to an NCAA tournament. Like that was -- every decision I make I always have that in mind.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
So one of the things I've heard you talk about, and you mentioned it again at the initial program or press conference is that you want to restore some of the in-state rivalries. And so what are some of the non-conference games that you're looking forward to this year and what are the non-conference games that you're looking forward to in the future? And when do you anticipate that Butler and IU will be coming [brief laughter] into Worthen Arena?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
[brief laughter] Well, I don't know if we can get that, but we'll try! But you know, scheduling is an interesting, interesting piece. And obviously like our schedule has come out here recently and you know, there's some games I inherited, some contracts I inherited that we have to return games to, or, you know, fulfill those contracts and then you got to have a certain date open and it's got to match somebody.
But you know, we were able to keep the Indiana State series going, we're able to keep the Evansville series going. You know, we tried to get, you know, our home opener on opening night, November 7th, we tried to get, you know, we tried to get Valpo in here. We tried to get USI in here. We tried to get, IUPUI, like we tried to get teams in here and it just didn't work. And so we had to fall, you know, to where we fell. And we were bringing Earlham in here, which is a non-division I team. And, you know, like when you put those things together, like, okay, like for example, one team I could have brought Cal State Northridge in here and like, okay, that's a division I team. Well, yeah. But now next year I got to go to Cal State Northridge. Okay. And that trip in itself is going to cost me $30,000 to $40,000, right? So, if I float that bill across your desk [brief laughter], you're going to be like, hey, Mike, what are we doing? You know, and Manhattan was another team. And so, I think as we continue on, and we build our program and there's some things I can fix from a scheduling standpoint in the future that I just couldn't quite get done this year.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Sure.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
So, you know, when I put the schedule together, we obviously, we got a conference that we work with. We have people that work with the net and different things that rank, and it was a B+ schedule. And it would've been an A schedule if I could have got one non-D team off there and added a D-I, but the dates worked and then looking big picture, you know, fiscally it wasn't very responsible for me to do some of those things. So, you know, I think we'll get our program to the point where we can attract some of those teams in some higher profile home and homes, or, you know, a 2-for-1 and try to get an IU or Purdue or something in there, but the days of those high majors coming here … you don't see that happen very much anymore. Like maybe we can get a neutral site or something, and we'll have to get creative, but it's just, it's not what it was 20 years ago.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Right. It's tougher. And our expectations are those neutral sites. I mean, that's where we've --
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, I think a great --
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Which should be a lot of fun.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
I like the Indiana State series. I like the Evansville series. I like to get with Valpo and IUPUI and USI is a new D-I team. I love the game at Gainbridge Field House.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
You know, against Illinois State, I think the chance to take our program to Indianapolis where you know, we have the highest percentage of alumni living in that area. I think that's cool. It's a great facility to play in. We're playing a quality opponent; we're playing right before Purdue Davidson. It should be a great atmosphere. The trip to The Bahamas is, you know, something I inherited, I think it's going to be a great experience. You know, I don't, [brief laughter], you know, fiscally, I don't know how, you know, it's going to work out, but it's, you know, those are things that I look at is kind of like the foreign trips that you're allowed to do in the summertime.
Like, it's, I think it's a great experience. You got to use it as a teaching tool. It's going to be the first time some of our guys have been outside the country. But I don't think it's the smartest thing to do every year, you know, when you face some of the challenges that we face. And so, I think there's some other things that we can do from a scheduling standpoint to have those in a rotation on about every three or four years, but then build the schedule differently where we're playing more regional opponents.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. And it'll certainly be great to be in Gainbridge Fieldhouse, playing in Gainbridge Fieldhouse, a Fieldhouse that's named for a company that a Ball State graduate Dan Towriss owns.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
No, it's great. And obviously Dan's been great. I've created a pretty good relationship with him. And he's a very proud Cardinal.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And he’s a big sports fan.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yes.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
So one of the many things that I admire about you is your commitment to your family. Tell us a little bit about your wife, Nicole, and your two daughters.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, there's not much I can't -- I'm not able to tell you about my wife. I've known her since fourth grade. So [brief laughter] you know, I know all the good and the bad, but --
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And so does she, right? So be careful here.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Unfortunately. But no, she -- I tell you what we've been best friends since fourth grade. And I like, it's not the -- you know, it's not like we were boyfriend or girlfriend the whole time. Now we did go to high school proms together, basically because we just, well, I mean, who else we going to go with, right? You know, but you know, it's -- she's been great. She wasn't a huge sports fan or not -- no, I shouldn't say sports. She wasn't a huge basketball fan growing up, but now she can tell you, like when we first got serious in dating, like she couldn't tell you a guard, forward, center. She didn't know any of those things, but she's really grown in, she's an unbelievable coach's wife.
She's moved all across the country allowing me, you know, to chase a dream. She's done a great job. Like you've met my daughters, she's done an unbelievable job of raising, you know, two beautiful girls that, you know, that I'm proud of most days [brief laughter]. You know, there's a day here or there that she's like, ah, but she's just been great.
And then obviously I got a freshman that goes to Yorktown now in Avery and Emma's a sixth grader also at Yorktown and they've, you know, they've kind of made this move as well as I could ever expected. You know, I think they've handled themselves really well. They've had a very open mind. They haven't been scared to put themselves out there. They've met friends and you know; I can't say enough about the Muncie and Yorktown communities … you know, being very, very open to them. And the hospitality and the welcoming of my family's been unbelievable.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
So, I've met your girls, as you say, and they're both bright and engaged. Around the dinner table do they offer some coaching tips or defensive schemes or anything?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
When it's just us, they offer all kinds of things [brief laughter]. But [brief laughter] no, they kind of, they --
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
They stay in their lane.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
They do. They do stay in their lane. Now, occasionally they'll say, you know, they're not scared to voice their opinion, but normally they leave the basketball to me. But that's about, I think that's all they think I understand or know because outside of basketball, I think I'm one of the dumbest human beings that they've ever met in their mind, you know, but as they, each day they get older, they start realizing mom and dad kind of made me know a few things.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. And I have raised five kids and I've gone through that phase. Four teenage daughters, all in the house at one time. So they come back around [brief laughter]. So and hopefully your wife is not as sarcastic as mine when she's watching basketball. My wife will occasionally say, if we miss a free throw at a critical time, she'll ask me, is there a reason why we don't practice free throws?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yeah. Well, bring her by and she'll see that we do practice free throws. They're not going up there missing. They -- it's the -- and that's one thing about being in Indiana. I mean everybody, they either grew up playing basketball, they played for their high school team or something. And I just can't believe we miss any free throws. It's like, you made all yours? Like you made all yours?
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Right.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
When your wife comes in the gym and she goes a hundred for a hundred, then she can talk about the free throws [brief laughter].
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. Well, I'll have you deliver that message. I'll have her listen to this podcast. So your children probably like, and Nicole, like a lot of Cardinals fans, you know, it's been a while. And you commented about that at the press conference, you know, we want to win the MAC Championship. We want to play in the NCAA tournament again. We want to do one of those great runs and go to the Sweet 16. That's hard. It's probably harder today than it was when we made that run 20 years ago. Are those the kind of goals that you ultimately have? Is that the measure of success: winning a MAC Championship tournament, playing in the NCAA and maybe getting a win in a first round?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
I think those are the big picture goals, you know, I think, you know, hey, listen, we want to win a MAC Championship. We want to go to NCAA tournament, you know, once you get in that tournament, you know, really anything can happen. We've seen that, you know, time and time again. You know, going to Sweet 16, that's an unbelievable accomplishment for that team. You know, it is like we just went with UCLA, it's really hard to get there at UCLA. You know, those things are when you're in a one-game elimination tournament, you know, you're a bad day away from going home. And so --
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
One turnover.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yeah. So you know, we missed a blackout with a minute and a half. It costs us a chance to go to the Elite Eight and probably a Final Four. But you know, I think we’re working on the day to day. Like when I walked in, we had our first team meeting and I said, we will go to -- we will win a MAC Championship and we will go to the NCAA tournament. You could just kind of see the look on some of those guys face, like, come on, man everybody says that.
And so you have that goal, but then you simplify it, you know, and you break it down to you know, this is what we got to do today. This is what we got to do tomorrow. This is where we’ve got to be in a month. And you simplify it where they're not thinking that big picture, but there's, you know, that's not, you know, that's -- I've never shied away from expectations. You don't play in Indiana. You don't coach it at, you know, Butler, UCLA if you're scared of expectations, you know, so I'm not scared of them here. I know we can build the type of program that puts themselves in a position to consistently compete for that MAC Championship. We play in a league where you have to put yourself in a position to win three games in three days in March.
So how can we get ourselves in the position by March to be the best that we can be at that time, and then go out and compete. And I think to ultimately do that, like, you know, if you talk to the so-called experts, all right, who's the best teams in the MAC. They're going to list the same four teams, maybe different orders, but they're going to list the same four teams. So I think step 1 is putting ourselves in that conversation, putting ourselves in that top four to where you have a legitimate chance to go win a championship in Cleveland. And then once you do that, you put yourself in a tournament where, you know, anything can happen.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. Just ask UMBC.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, St Peter's last year. I mean, they, you know, they're in the Elite Eight, you know, so anything can happen. You can't -- you know, when teams get hot and get on a roll and start believing. But that belief comes from the work that you put in and the belief comes from doing the things that it takes as you're seeing the improvement on as a team.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So let's talk big picture. I believe you've heard me say this. I believe that training and competing as a student athlete-- high level, as a college athlete, that that experience prepares you for success in your career and in your life. I believe that as I say, because that's part of my own professional and personal journey. Why do you think college sports, notwithstanding all of the challenges and the money that people are talking about and you know, why is it an enterprise and endeavor that we should do all we can to preserve college sports in America?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Because you're teaching young people how to compete. And I think when you get into competitive environments, like, you don't get born into winning, you know, you don't inherit winning. Like you have to go out there and compete. You have to put yourself out there. And it's okay. Like too many people that, you know, they're scared to fail. They're scared of losing because like, well, how's that look? Well, listen, man, like, you know, Michael Jordan has got that great poster. Like I've missed all these thousands of shots and because I've missed those shots, I can now succeed. Like now I can hit the game winners, like but I think in society now, we're protecting too many people -- -- from the accountability. It's always somebody else's fault. We're so quick to point fingers. Like it's okay. Like it's my fault. All right. I screwed that up. It's my fault. I made a mistake. We lost like, how are you going to learn from that? How are we going to grow from that? If you don't ever go through that, how do you grow? Like if everybody just paves the way for you and you never have those experiences, how are you going to be prepared when life hits?
So I just think like you, that athletics puts you in so many different situations that you were forced to grow up and take responsibility and be held accountable. And it prepares you for when life happens, because life is not - nobody is paving their way in life. Nobody cares. Like too many people think their feelings matter in life. Like nobody cares. Everybody's trying to take your money. Like I told our team today, somebody's going to be trying to take your house. Somebody is going to be trying to take your car, or somebody is going to be trying to take your wife. Like nobody cares. Like it is a competitive environment. And then until you get comfortable in those type of environments and learn how to win in life, you know, it's going to be really difficult for you.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And it's about the discipline, but it's also about values.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Yes.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And character. So you know, I just want to end our conversation with the same question that I ask all of the guests on this podcast. And it's about beneficence. You come to know that Beneficence is the iconic statue that is the tangible reminder of our commitment to the enduring values that distinguish our university. And as you know, beneficence means doing good for other people through education, through service, through philanthropy. So what does beneficence in the short period of time, what does beneficence mean to you?
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, I've got 14 individuals whose parents, guardians, caretakers, whoever, have entrusted in me and my staff to build upon the foundation that they've given them up to this point in their life. So I have an opportunity to use athletics like we talked about to prepare them for life for when it happens.
I take that, I have two daughters. I take that responsibility very seriously that, you know, our staff is about the right things. Like I want to you know, we talk about our families. I want them around our program, because I want our players to see us as husbands. I want them to see us as fathers. I want them to see us outside of basketball. I want them to see us as something other than just their coach. Because I think when the more environments that they see you in, and the more complete person that they see you in, instead of just the guy that's telling them where to be, you know, defensively, then they see a different way. And like you're bringing a bunch of people together. In our aspect, like you have 14 guys from different backgrounds, different areas of the country, they're away from their people for the first time. They're starting to develop their own beliefs and ideas on their own for the first time. And so I take that responsibility, you know, very seriously. And we got to -- that's why I like college athletics, you got an opportunity to make a huge impact on people at an age in their life that is going to directly translate to, you know, success or failure later on in life … and what you can do to help them learn that. And, you know, we've got 14 groups of people that have entrusted our staff in helping their kids, you know, grow. And then obviously I think you know, here, I talked to you like, I don't want to just be the basketball coach. Like I want to, you know, use basketball and the platform that we have here to help this university grow, you know, achieve, you know, how can basketball help you achieve some of the goals that you have for this university? And in doing so then how can we improve Muncie and East Central Indiana.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. Good to be with you, Michael. And on behalf of the extended Ball State University community, we are grateful that you and Nicole have brought your family here, and let's go Cards.
[MICHAEL LEWIS]:
Well, thank you. I'm very proud to be here.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Thank you.