Angela Ahrendts is an accomplished Ball State graduate who, over the course of her career in business, has provided visionary leadership at the helm of companies including Burberry, the luxury fashion house, and the tech giant Apple.
In this episode, Angela reveals the sign that (literally) pointed her to study at Ball State. She also talks about how her undergraduate experience provided her with the valuable learning opportunity to explore New York City, where she launched her career in fashion. And she shares how her Midwestern values inspire her to serve others, both as a leader in business and as a humanitarian committed to using her expertise to benefit the world.
If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review to support the show.
Angela Ahrendts is an accomplished Ball State graduate who, over the course of her career in business, has provided visionary leadership at the helm of companies including Burberry, the luxury fashion house, and the tech giant Apple.
In this episode, Angela reveals the sign that (literally) pointed her to study at Ball State. She also talks about how her undergraduate experience provided her with the valuable learning opportunity to explore New York City, where she launched her career in fashion. And she shares how her Midwestern values inspire her to serve others, both as a leader in business and as a humanitarian committed to using her expertise to benefit the world.
If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review to support the show.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Today, it is my privilege to welcome another special guest to the latest episode of Our Call to Beneficence. Joining me today is Angela Ahrendts. Angela is an accomplished Ball State graduate who over the course of her career in business has provided visionary leadership at the helm of companies including Burberry, the luxury fashion house, and the tech giant Apple. Angela began her fashion career in New York City in 1981, shortly after she left Ball State. In the years that followed, she climbed the corporate ladder, holding top executive positions at Donna Karan and Liz Claiborne before moving to London to become the CEO of Burberry in 2006. In this episode, I'll talk to Angela about how her love of fashion was instilled in her at a young age, why she chose to study at Ball State, and how she made the jump from Indiana to the Big Apple, and then to Apple. We'll also talk about Angela's leadership style, why she considers herself a professional culture guru, and how growing up in the Midwest instilled in her the core values that have defined her career success. Angela, welcome, and thank you for joining me for this podcast.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
No, thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Good. So why don't we start at least close to the beginning? Let's first talk about your upbringing. You grew up right here in Indiana in a suburb of Indianapolis. I understand you are one of six children. Is that right?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
That's absolutely right. One of six, and there were six of us in seven years.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
So pretty compact, so tell us about your family. Tell us about your parents, maybe your grandparents if you'd like, and your siblings.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's interesting that you say suburb, and that's probably what it is now, but so when I was growing up there, it was a tiny farm town, so a tiny high school, 100 kids in the graduating class and but it was kind of like Mayberry. You know, we lived in a small neighborhood with about 20 homes with a church anchored on each corner that you could, you know, could walk to and, you know, the local baseball diamond where, you know, everyone went and played and the community tree house and, you know, we had the pitch-in dinners where the tables lined the street, and it was -- you know, I have nothing but incredible, incredible memories of the tight-knit community, of our family’s role in it and, and also the role that sports played. You know, sports in the heart of the Midwest—they are a big deal, and our family was big enough to have our own team, and so yeah, by the same token, you know, church was instilled. I think that's where the values come from. You know, we walked to church on Sunday evening, and whatever events were Friday or Saturday. I mean, it was just a part of the community. It wasn't a box you ticked. It was just embedded in your DNA, you know, your faith and how you treated each other, etc. So but like I said, a lot like Mayberry.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
It was just a wonderful small-town upbringing. And you could -- you know, I spent a lot of time reading and dreaming and living in fashion magazines, and just, you know...
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And is that how your interest in fashion got started, by looking at fashion magazines while you were while you were young?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
You know, I think it was a combination. That was one of the things, but my mother is also incredibly beautiful. My mother and father both went to Butler, met at Butler University, and my mother modeled on the side, so my mother dressed impeccably. I mean, she wouldn't leave the house without her, you know, her hair done and she just always looked incredible, so I think I was always -- and my father dressed beautifully as well, but I think, you know, spending all that time with your mom growing up and watching how that was so important and the statement that she -- you know, she was always look your best, be your best, do your best, and it was just one of those things in her toolkit, if you will. So watching that, and that was kind of instilled in all of us, and we didn't have -- we were -- I'm from very, very humble beginnings. I mean, you know, I got one new pair of shoes every year to go back to school with and, you know, I had to wear an outfit twice during the week because there were only five things in the closet and one was a cheerleading uniform so, you know, very, very different than how many young kids I think grow up maybe or not, but very humble but happy.
You know, I shared a bed with -- a bedroom with two of my sisters, so I think watching my mother, and then yes, I mean, in my one small fringe thing with my allowance is I buy a Vogue magazine or a fashion magazine, and I would live, you know, through that. And my mother sewed, so I learned to sew at a young age and I would make doll clothes from her scraps of fabric etc. You know, and then you have to realize I'm, you know, coming of age in the early '70s, and so then we'd slit our blue jeans and we'd put the patchwork in our flare jeans and so, you know, this creative side started to come out and I'd help my sisters and but I was making everything. I'm making tabletop. I mean, I just, I knew then I had this this thing that, you know, I didn't know right-brain creative at that point, but I knew I had this affinity for creating things, and so I think, you know, that's what shaped me. I think it was mom ad the magazines and just, you know, growing up, and that's how I spent my time.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
So what did your parents, particularly your mother, think when the fashion changed pretty dramatically from the '60s into the '70s?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah, and yeah, I mean, it's interesting, though, because back then you don't realize the change, right?
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Right.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
It's just so subtle and, you know, my dad's hair got a little fuller. My mom's hair got a little longer, and dad came up with a peace sign belt buckle at one point that we were like, "Whoa, dad." But --
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
So they were changing.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
-- yeah, no, when you're a close knit family, you don't notice the difference, right? And you're all in high school, and you're, you know, like I said, involved heavily in sports. We, every one of us, were in tons of sports, and not just in high school but the local YMCA and so, yeah, I think you're right, there was a dramatic change, but I think being young and in a tight family unit, a tight community, you don't notice it really as much.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
That's right. I guess we do in hindsight, when we look now at family photographs or other photographs, and you can pick what era it was by the hairdos or the clothes. You're probably much better at that. So both of your parents you said went to Butler. Tell us why you chose to come to Ball State.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah, my sister, who's about 15 months older than I am, was going to Ball State. And I don't even recall what she was studying, but I went up. She'd only been there a month or so, and I knew what my passions were. I knew what I wanted to do, but not exactly, right? I didn't know in my mind, merchandising and marketing, you know, when you're a junior/senior in high school. So I had gone up to visit her, and she's touring me around campus, and we literally walk into this building and, you know, they always say follow the signs. Well, there was literally this huge sign, and it said talk about these upcoming merchandising courses. And I stood there and read the sign, and I was like, "That's it. That describes me and exactly what I want to do." And I literally, I think, within the next week, started filling out my applications and literally helped guide, you know, and I think I added marketing on a little bit later, but I just knew, you know, that merchandising side, and it was all a part of the curriculum, and I think the curriculum was evolving at Ball State then. I think these were some of the early courses.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. Were there any particular -- so a little -- it sounds a little like fate, and so were there any particular professors that influenced you while you were here at Ball State?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Oh, absolutely. I mean, there were a number of them but, you know, and it's interesting. In each one of your courses, right? -- there are amazing people, and I think that when you have people who really care and are really invested, you know, in making each student the best that they can be, you know, I think they're honest and they lean in and I had, you know, one professor. Dr. Whitaker, and I was in this creative design class and I was struggling making a pattern and, you know, and fitting that pattern. And I was also doing it very classic, maybe more of a Ralph Lauren Burberry design. I wasn't doing over-the-top stuff like all of these other, and I was actually walking around the room and I had -- I was helping others and I had an opinion on what they were doing, and so one day she pulled me aside and she said, "You know this is a creative design class," and she said, "I actually think you're more of what we call a merchant." She said, "You have a very strong opinion on what everyone else is doing and how to make theirs better," and she said, "but, you know, but I don't know if you have the gifts or the creative, you know, skills if you will to really be a designer." And again, I hadn't necessarily dreamed of being designer. I just put myself into all these classes not knowing. And she really helped guide me and so I stopped doing as many of those creative classes, went more over to, you know, planning and inventory management and buying and all of the other things that would support becoming a merchant, and then started veering off also into marketing, etc., but just that one little honest guidance, that moment, you know, really helped me, I think, get on a different trajectory.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah, and it sounds it very -- she was able to really know you and what your talents were and guide you in a way that was -- turned out to be quite prescient.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So you leave Ball State and you go right to the fashion industry in New York, as I understand it, and I suspect you are working your way through college. Somebody told me that maybe you were selling records at the Muncie Mall. What was it like to go from Ball State and Muncie, Indiana, selling records in the Muncie Mall to the fashion industry in New York? How did you have the confidence or and maybe the relationships or not to make that kind of a move, that kind of a leap?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah. Well, luckily, one of the programs at Ball State was an amazing, amazing field trip that I signed up to do, so I think it must have been maybe my junior year and I went with a whole group of Ball State students to New York City, and they took us to a number of the different fashion houses, and we got to see behind the scenes. We got to meet with different people. And it was funny. Had I not taken that trip, I probably would have never had the confidence to blindly get on a plane and go to a city like New York and figure out an industry, but because of that trip, I don't -- I didn't feel that it was -- I didn't feel lost. I didn't feel -- and I felt like okay, this is an industry made up of thousands of companies and I just have to get a job at one of those and, you know, find a place to live, but it wasn't nearly as daunting, and it made me see that it was very, very doable. So when I got back from the trip, I literally started planning my move to New York, and started networking. You know, who do I know? And I was talking to my parents about it, and one day my dad said, "Well, you know, at the club, there's this guy, Charlie Cooper, and Charlie has a buying office in New York. Maybe I could connect you," because one of the local stores in the mall, in Washington Square Mall, a local menswear store, had worked through that buying office. I'm like, "Great, Dad."
So I, you know, packed my bags, and, you know, Dad connects me with Charlie, and at that point, you have to realize we don't have email, right? We don't have any of the technology we have today, so I think it was a phone call and an address that Charlie gave me and so yeah, when I got into New York, I called Charlie and met him in his office, and he's the one who actually made the connection for the menswear job, which was the first job that I took in New York. But --
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
-- yeah, just, you know, networking and dreaming and was it the perfect job? Was it what I -- you know, was it high-end luxury, international fashion at that point? No, but it was the foot in the door.
And it was the foot in the door to learn with people who cared about you and could mentor you, and I had never heard of the company before. I didn't -- you know, my father had obviously, but I didn't know that much about menswear, you know, men's knitwear, but it was an incredible lesson. And again, I just was happy to get it. I think the hardest thing in the world is getting experience. Once you get some experience, you can then move on, but that first one is always the most challenging, so I felt so fortunate.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah, and the lesson also that we often share with our students is just what you said. Get some experience. You'll learn about yourself. You'll meet other people, but also, you know, we try to encourage our students to take advantage of either study abroad opportunities so that they can see other cities or cultures around the world, but even what we refer to as study away, like you just said, going from Indianapolis to New York City or to another area of the country, different culture, different connections. Did you like living in New York? Was that -- was it what you anticipated when you got there?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Ah, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, you know, I always say it's kind of like the song. You know, it is the concrete jungle where dreams are made up, so yeah, I was living the dream. I was all by myself in my fifth-floor walk-up and, you know, I'd walk down Fifth Avenue every day, you know, my 15 blocks to work, and walk home every day and take my magazines on the weekend to Central Park and sit in the park with everybody just, you know, looking at my magazines and, you know, I couldn't afford to do anything.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Right.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
I was absolutely broke, but it didn't matter. I -- those first years, I was just, I was living my dream, and I -- and working. I mean, I worked so many hours, because what else did I have to do? And then I started saying, "Well, if I work, you know, if I work 50 hours a week or 60 hours a week, think how much ahead of everybody else I can get because they're only working 30, 40 hours a week." So I, you know, always kind of had this -- always competed with myself and so yeah, just worked and learn and grew and, you know, made connections and, you know, and then eventually start, you know, going up the ladder a little bit, earning a little bit more money so now you can go to dinner periodically with friends, and but it was one of the best moves I ever made. But again, had I not had -- had I not seen the sign, had I not met Dr. Whitaker, had I not gone on the field trip, you know, with Ball State, I don't think any of it would have been so smooth. It just opened your eyes along the way.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Right. And, yeah. And create those opportunities. Excuse me. And you mentioned a moment ago, I think it was only by 1989, you were the -- you were in leadership, maybe the president of Donna Karan. Is -- did I get that chronology? That's, you know, that's only about eight or nine years. How did you -- obviously, it sounded like you advanced in part on your ambition and your work ethic and your discipline. How -- what are the other attributes that enabled you to climb that organizational ladder so quickly?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah, I think a little of it too, was, like I said, the hours that I worked, and not that I'm encouraging everyone to do that. It worked for me, and so, by the time I got the job at Donna Karan, I had a tremendous amount of experience, you know. And again, just, you know, I was probably working 60, 80 hours a week and but again, learning and growing and traveling, and just, I mean, I, you know, I always find it fascinating that when you're in college, paying a university, kids work so hard for a grade, and then when I used to interview them, I always used to ask, "Are you going to work twice as hard now that I'm paying you, right?" because it's funny. They get out of college, and then they get the job, and then it's like, I'm 9-to-5, I, you know. And I always felt the opposite. It's like, no, they're paying me now. I have got so much that I need to learn and do and give.
And, and so it's funny, because the more you give, the more things fall into place and the more things just naturally happen. I don't think it's a coincidence. I think that, you know, of course there's luck, and there's -- but for me, honestly, a lot of it was just tremendous hard work and caring and loving what I did and, you know, and being present and authentic. And so, yeah, by the time I got to Donna, there was another lovely gentleman who was the president of the business and, and she had no idea how old I was, I mean, at all. You know, she knew my background, and I was underneath him for two or three years, and we were driving the business and building incredible teams of people, and she came to me one day and said he's going to retire and I would love you to, you know, I'd love you to be under him for six months, and then I'd love to make you. And I was like, terrific, you know, very excited. I absolutely can do this. I felt I knew the business, and like I said, helped put the team together, etc., and only when the head of PR came to me because they were writing the press release, and Patty came to me and she goes, you're only 28 or 29? And I kind of looked at her like yeah. And she's like, "Oh my God, I don't Donna knows that."
And I said, "What does it matter? Don't even put it in there. It doesn't matter." You know? And so it was -- you know, it wasn't about age. It was about the work, and it was about, you know, about the -- about what you had done in order to prepare yourself and obviously her and her leadership team had the confidence that you could run that business and knew that business better than any other candidate outside or inside
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
So you spent a stint at Donna Karan, then a stint at Liz Claiborne, and then in 2006, you had an opportunity to go to England to be the CEO of Burberry. What made that opportunity attractive to you, attractive enough to leave the United States go to London, or maybe London was an attraction as well?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah. You know, it's funny. I'm loyal to a fault, so I had very little interest. The first couple of times they called, I would say, "No. No, thank you. No thank you," and I was very happy and I worked with the Liz Claiborne Corporation, which was called LCI at that point, a big publicly traded conglomerate. I didn't work for the Liz Claiborne brand. We -- I was in the M&A area we would acquire four to five companies a year, so I was the EVP at a company overseeing about 22 of the different businesses, and it was a portfolio that I was helping to build, you know, acquiring the Juicy Coutures and the Lucky brands and the -- and, you know, we had an amazing matrix we were building out and then putting the leadership teams in place and helping create the strategy to take them from 50-60 million to a billion in five years, and so I loved it. I loved my life in New York.
I was going to California every month for a week and, you know, had life under control, three babies, a wonderful husband, country home. I mean, life was -- I had absolutely zero interest in changing anything, so I told Burberry no a handful of times, and finally my predecessor, Rosemarie Bravo, she called up one day, and she said, "Do you realize how few CEO opportunities there are for women in the world today?" And she said, you know, she said, "I know it may not be perfect, and I know it may not but, you know, I can put a lot of people in this position," you know? And just it was the way she said it. And again, I don't care about titles. I've never cared about titles, but it was just the way she said it, and I it made me pause and think maybe I should think a little more seriously about this.
Maybe I should not focus on all the positives I have now. Maybe I should kind of flip it on its head and say, but if I did this, what would all the positives of the future be? Would it be so bad to have my kids grow up in a foreign country for a little while and become greater global citizens? You know, would it be interesting for my husband to, you know -- we could travel Europe -- I started just trying to look at -- because it was my personal life, I think, that was holding me more back. When you're a mother of three kids under 10 and you're running a big organization, you know, of course, it's your family life that you have to consider, and I was being very protective, and but when I put a different lens on it and tried to think of that more positively. And then I was actually afraid I would get bored at Burberry, because it was just one brand, and I'm used to dealing with 20-some-odd different brands and, you know, so it was just interesting when you put a different light on it, and but then I told myself, but most of the business I was doing in New York was U.S.-based. Most of it was wholesale to department stores and specialty stores. They really didn't have a lot of their own retail, and most of it wasn't luxury, so I really -- I thought okay, would then it be better for me professionally to run a global brand and direct-to-consumer with the things that were starting to happen? You know, the iPhone wasn't out yet, but you could feel technology. We all had Blackberries, and you could feel the trend going. So that's when I said, "Okay, it's probably better for me for these reasons, probably better for the family. Why not do it for, you know, X number of years? We will all be better off, and I don't want to wake up someday and say, I wish I would have."
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So during your during your tenure at Burberry, you grew the company's revenues and profits, but what are you most proud of about your leadership experience at Burberry?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah. I think when you learn, when you're the CEO, and you are 100% accountable, there's nobody to blame, right? You build the team. You oversee the strategy. I mean, you know, you're dealing with investors and analysts, etc., so I'm the most proud that I was able to lift up. I'm a doer, and I think a lot of us are, but when you get into these big global complex, it's less about doing and it's about leading and inspiring and communicating very clearly. And I think that I learned to become a leader. And I learned to know what I know and know what I don't know. You know, I learned to ask questions and not make assumptions and pull together teams of experts that were so much smarter and better than I was, and I had to be the coach. You know, I -- there's no way I could know everything our CFO Stacy knew. There's no way I was nearly as creative as Christopher. There's no way I was a supply chain expert, like, you know, like our COO, and so -- you know, or our chief marketing officer, so I learned that if we wanted to win, I needed to bring in people who were so brilliant in their field, but whose values were aligned to the culture that we wanted to create. Christopher and I always dreamed of creating the company, the type of company, that we both always dreamed of working for, and so we made culture the -- and we did -- we only wanted people to be a part of our team, a part of our culture that -- and as we got bigger, would so honor and respect that but they too would only bring in like-minded people whose values were aligned, and we knew that if we did that, and people trusted each other and deeply cared about each other and cared about the company, we knew we could do anything. So when you say culture guru, I mean that was the --
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
-- that -- culture trumps strategy every day.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yes, yes. Yeah. So, and during your tenure at Burberry, my predecessor, Jo Ann Gora, invited you back to campus to speak at commencement. What was it like to come back 20-some-odd years later with all that you had accomplished? What was it like to come back to Ball State? How did that feel?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah. The six-month run up to it was incredibly stressful, and incredibly stressful because now technology had taken off, and now you've got YouTube and Instagram and Twitter et al., and I knew that anything I said would long outlive me, and so there was a different type of a pressure. I knew my children and my family would be there, and I knew that -- I knew there were 14,000 starry-eyed kids much like I was. And so the six months were incredibly stressful, preparing, trying to say something that was relatable and impactful and, you know, would just make a difference. So the run up was very stressful. Getting there was. It was freezing cold that day, mind you, but it was less so because I had overthought it, you know, and it's kind of like I told them. I had, you know, I told them, I said, as you're graduating now, you know, turn off your head and turn on your heart. And that's, you know, that's what I tried to do for them, and so it was less stressful. I took it as an honor, but I took it. At one point at the commencement, I said, you know, it's kind of like American Idol. I said, I'm just back to entertain you. I already won.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
You know? So and that's how I felt. I felt like I already did it. I was -- you know, and, you know, so now if I can impart any words of wisdom in an inspiring way that would make a difference for them, that's really what I was hoping to do, but I really loved it. It was freezing cold, but other than that, I just felt honored and blessed to do it, and you know, always if you can make a difference in people's lives, make an impact, then isn't that what it's all about?
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah, and speaking at commencement, as I get a regular chance to do, to try to think of something concise, but as you say, meaningful, that perhaps a few of them might remember after the passage of time. As a culture guru, is that why Tim Cook, who was then the CEO of Apple, is that why he reached out to you? Do you know why he called you at Burberry and said, "Come back to The States and help me continue to make Apple a worldwide recognizable brand?"
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah, I didn't know it at first, but after the conversations, it was interesting, because Fortune magazine had just done a huge expose on Burberry, like eight pages on the whole turnaround at Burberry, and, and on the team, etc. Well, I saw that version that was in Europe that I was on the cover of. What I didn't realize was that Tim Cook was on the cover of the American Fortune, because there was also a huge thing on Apple in the same magazine. So and so I didn't know that, right? -- living in Europe, but I guess that he ended up reading the article on Burberry, and then asked his -- told his team, you know, I'd like to meet with her. And in that article, yes, it talked about the team and our ethos and our values and how we led and how we communicated, you know, how we -- you know, we had worked with Salesforce and put all these communication platforms in place so Christopher and I could talk to the teams every single week, and they could talk to each other in different languages. And so we -- you know, I think in any good team, right? -- it's just constant communication, and that's how you build trust, and that's how you achieve things.
So I think he had ended up reading some of that, and Apple Retail was 60% of Apple's workforce. I mean, and so I think that -- I think -- and they had been without a leader for over a year. So again, I didn't realize it, but I think, you know, he, yes, he wanted the leadership, the culture, the compassionate people caring part. The business was already the most successful on the planet. And it wasn't that it couldn't obviously get better, but it wasn't about that. It was really that, you know, he wanted to protect these incredible people that were on the frontline for Apple's incredible products every day, and he wanted to make sure that they were happy and they were inspired, and they had a north star and knew where they were going, and…
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
And values … When I spoke to President Gora when she was a guest on my podcast, she attributed your success in part to those Midwestern core values. Is that -- do you think that's a fair assessment?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, positively. And it was funny. That was kind of the epiphany I'd had as I was writing the commencement speech because you keep thinking, why are you who you are? Where did this come from? Why? And that's kind of when it hit me. You know, it was my -- the way my parents -- who my parents were, how they raised me and my siblings, how they wanted us to get along as a family unit, what our role was in the community, and my parents talked a lot about serving. Like, you know, that is our responsibility is to serve and take care of others, and it doesn't matter what we -- how much we have or don't have. There will always be people greater and lesser than yourselves, and so we were always, at Christmas time, I mean always, we had to, we always had to give more. Again, it doesn't matter what you have. We always had -- and so, yeah. It was -- I was raised that way, and my father would talk a lot about being accountable and having integrity and how critical trust was in any human relationship. I mean, you know, he had the Desiderata hung on one wall and, you know, I memorized that and used to lay in his den and memorize that. And yeah, and so those were just things, again, they were -- you know, we all are raised and exposed to different things, and my father, you know, my father gave me, As a Man Thinketh by Kahil Gilbran when I was like 12, and it gave me -- he gave me -- sorry, Kahil Gilbran, The Prophet, at 12, and he gave me James Allen, As a Man Thinketh at like 13. I mean, you know, my father was so well read, and so he would feed us with -- you know, and these were all about dreaming. These were all about, you know, you are what you believe. And then my mother was much more the spiritual, so that my mom would, you know, fill you with scripture, and so you had these, but above and beyond it all, it was just -- and they would always say too, it's not about you. My father talked a lot about being selfless. He used to always say, I've said this. People have probably heard this before, but my favorite line of my dad is we'd be looking at a picture and he'd always say, "I'll know that I did a great job, if when you look at a photo, you look for yourself last."
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Mm-hm.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
I mean, it's like, you know? And to this day, that is still, I think, the greatest challenge for any human, but that was philosophically how him and mom raised us.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Yeah. So that's a good segue into my final question today, which is -- and this is a question I ask of all of my guests, and as you know, Beneficence, that iconic statue is a symbol of our university and that statue, sculpture, it stands for our enduring values. One of the things when people ask why Ball State for me, I often say that the values that are represented by Beneficence, those enduring values are the same values that my parents wanted to instill in me and my eight siblings, and those are the values that Jennifer and I want to instill in our children and, and now our grandchildren. So what does beneficence mean to you?
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Yeah. I think it's like we talked about. I think that if you're raised with those values, as we were and we've discussed, and if serving others is your calling, whether you're in college, whether you're in a small business, whether you're in a large business, and now I'm really fortunate to be on the other side of business, and to be on boards and nonprofits and commercial boards, and but it still doesn't change. Your role in society in making an impact on other people's lives doesn't change and, you know, you do a podcast like this so you can hopefully impact others. You chair Save the Children International, so you can hopefully use your commercial expertise, you know, in an NGO to make a difference at a time when the world needs you to make a difference, or I've done Charity Water for 10 years, because once people have water, they can farm; they can have animals; they can -- the girls can get educated and go to school instead of walking five hours for dirty water. And so I don't -- I think that what beneficence to me, again, it needs to be something that it's not an afterthought. It is something that is so intertwined with your being. At Ball State it is so intertwined with the Midwestern values of where it resides, and so I think -- and I would hope that anyone attending Ball State, I would hope that, you know, they wouldn't think that that's an accident or a coincidence that they're there but, you know, that is to learn from, and it's enduring, and it must be with you the rest of your life. And again, you know, I was raised, "Whatever you give, you get tenfold in return," and I can tell you that, you know, that that has absolutely been the case of my life. And so I think that it is just continuing your whole life to give and to serve and to use your values to make the greatest possible impact that you can in business or otherwise.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Well, thank you. That's wonderful. Angela, I very much appreciate you sharing those thoughts and experiences with me and with the others who will listen, and wish you -- Jennifer and I wish you and your family during this holiday season, we wish you good health and peace.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Aw, thank you so much and a wonderful end to the -- to a great year for you and your family as well. We all have a tremendous amount to be grateful for and we all have a tremendous amount to leave in and help out with for those that don't have as much as we've been blessed with, so Happy Holidays to you and your family, too.
[GEOFF MEARNS]:
Thank you very much. Thank you.
[ANGELA AHRENDTS]:
Thank you.