S2E7: Creating a New Model for Equity in the Arts (Mali Jeffers)

Mali Jeffers graduated from Ball State University in 2004. Since then, she has combined her passion for art and design with her skills in advertising and marketing to serve as co-founder of GANGGANG, a cultural developmental firm.

Together with her husband, Alan Bacon, Mali is committed to building culture and community in her hometown of Indianapolis. Since founding GANGGANG in 2020, Mali’s firm has contributed works of public art and performances in conjunction with the 2021 NCAA men’s basketball tournament in Indianapolis. GANGGANG has also staged two successful iterations of BUTTER, a multi-day fine art fair that has garnered national media attention from Forbes and the New York Times.  

In this episode, Mali shares more about her desire to elevate artists of color and her dedication to using the arts as a means of bringing people together. 

Mali also discusses the meaning behind GANGGANG’s name—how the word “gang” reflects the journey that she and Alan are taking as entrepreneurs who are dedicated to equity in the arts. 

If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review to support the show. 

Transcript

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Hello, I'm Geoff Mearns, and I have the good fortune to serve as the president of Ball State University. On today's episode of my podcast, I will introduce you to Mali Jeffers. Mali graduated from Ball State in 2004. She has committed herself to building culture and community in Indianapolis, where she was born and raised. Mali is accomplishing this goal through her role as co-founder of GANGGANG, a cultural development firm.

Mali and Alan Bacon, her partner in life and in business, they're cultural entrepreneurs who invest in artists with an emphasis on people of color. In 2021, GANGGANG curated over 200 works of public art and performances in conjunction with that year's men's NCAA basketball tournament, which was held in Indianapolis. A few months later, GANGGANG hosted Butter, a visual arts festival inside Indianapolis’ historic Stutz Building. And just last September, Butter returned for a second year. The large number of people who attended the festival purchased more than $250,000 worth of art from the 42 artists who participated in the event. The success of Butter, and GANGGANG’s growing influence on Indianapolis art, community and art scene, it has received national coverage in publications including The New York Times and Forbes.

Mali, welcome and thank you for making time to join me for our conversation today.

[MALI JEFFERS]

Thank you so much. That was a beautiful introduction. Thank you.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Thank you. So, listeners of my podcast, they like … they have come to know that I begin each episode by learning a bit about my guests’ childhood and upbringing. Please tell us about yours.

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yeah. Oh, gosh. Well, I am from Indianapolis and, gosh, yeah, born and raised here. I guess the first part of … that's not the first part of my life anymore … I'm so old now. Up through eighth grade, I grew up in Broad Ripple, and that memory is really fond for me. We rode bikes and there was a Blockbuster and there was a TCBY. And it felt like a really great neighborhood with my very close knit family. I have a little brother and a little sister and an older brother and an older sister. So, yeah, we grew up in Broad Ripple, and then my parents, specifically my dad, decided that we were going to move down to 38th Street around 38th and Park, which was a very different neighborhood where I wasn't allowed to ride my bike by myself anymore.

So, when I think about my upbringing, I think about those kind of juxtapositions or those dichotomies between, you know, living in Broad Ripple and then going to a neighborhood that my family was at the center of revitalizing and also from schools. I went to a predominantly Black school until third grade and then started going to private schools until Ball State.

And so I think about my childhood in terms of like Broad Ripple to 38th, like Black to white, private versus community. Lots of family, lots of faith, and lots of thought prompts about race that I don't think I knew what to do with at the time.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So, in preparing for the conversation, I read an interview you gave to a magazine in Indianapolis where you spoke about your close-knit family and where you described your father as a community builder. What was his influence? What was your mother's influence on you in that respect?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yeah. Thank you. My dad is Caribbean. So he is from the Virgin Islands and could be described, as I might say, the lover. My mom is in the medical profession, and has worked at Methodist almost my entire life. And so, she might be described as the scientist. So, I have been raised by a lover and a scientist [laughs], somebody who again said, you know, hey, we're going to move to the Watson-McCord neighborhood and we're going to develop a neighborhood association and we're going to turn that neighborhood around.

That's, you know, that's my dad. Somebody who's having us out on Saturday mornings, picking up the trash in our neighbor's yards, and grilling and providing food and decorating trash cans with art and really learning about community and bringing people together and leadership outside of kind of corporate institutions. Or maybe, if I'm comparing it to my mom outside of, you know, some place like a hospital.

And so, I had very two distinct kind of paths that I learned from and that I was watching. And even the daily behavior seemed very different. And, you know, as mom would come home at 5 o’clock from the hospital and be in that type of garb, she's making dinner that way. And dad is maybe fixing somebody's car or hosting a neighborhood cleanup.

And so, to have both of those guide me was really wonderful, and has been really wonderful, and has taught me a lot as I now can reflect on what I was learning the whole time.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

You know, what a wonderful, beautiful, blessed combination you had growing up. So, you mentioned a moment ago, after you went to private school, you went to a private high school in Indianapolis—Brebeuf. And during your senior there, you started considering attending Ball State. What made you decide to become a Ball State Cardinal?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yeah, well, Brebeuf actually … my senior … I think they had a contest, a graphic design contest, and I had no idea what that even was. And in a couple of classes or a couple of like outside workshops, I was able to start dabbling with like Photoshop and designing things on the computer. And that opened my world. It kind of opened my thinking into possibilities and careers in college and what was next. And Ball State seemed to have a slant toward communication and toward journalism, toward design and architecture. And really more broadly, I guess the arts and humanities there, it seemed to slant towards subjects that require human touch, human care and human thought. And that made me really intrigued by Ball State.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So. And did it fulfill your expectations? Do you have some positive memories or highlights of your experience here at Ball State?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yes, actually. And it didn't come by way of how I thought. So, I applied to the design school at Ball State and I didn't get in. So all of this, you know—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

[interrupts] Whoever made that, whoever made that decision, may regret that now.

[MALI JEFFERS]

[laughs] Oh, yeah, I hope so. Well, maybe not, because I would choose my plan B as my plan A if I did it again. But, so, Ball State kind of drew me to it, you know, because of the design slant and communications and journalism and this kind of care. But yeah, then I didn't get into the school, and so it required me to think about what or why I was interested in those subjects.

And so then I studied advertising and had a photography minor, and oh my gosh, then I realized why I love graphic design and all the different mediums in which, in which I could communicate to people and to the masses. And so, Ball State kind of pressured me into thinking about what is it I love about an industry, and then fostered my learning of that.

So yeah, thanks for that question. I that's great.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So I often ask my guests ..  those who attended Ball State, were there any Ball State professors who had a memorable positive impact on your career in your life? A person in particular that you remember because of that impact?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Oh gosh. I think sadly no. I think… well, I do remember … I remember classes more than I remember who was teaching the classes. When I think of Ball State, I think about the subjects that I got to study that didn't directly align with advertising, but kind of were around it, like psychology. I remember whoever taught anthropology, you know, that stays with me every single day. Anthropology, psychology, sociology, astronomy. I got to take classes like that just to explore. So anyway, so sorry. I remember—it's like the, was there a Black Student Union House? And there were always familiar faces there. And that's if I, if faces come to mind, it's theirs.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. And so you're probably referring to the Multicultural Center—[Mali: “Yes!”]—which, which just a few years ago we relocated … well, we actually built a new facility in the heart of our campus. So, our Multicultural Center is now a wonderful new building that displays wonderful art from different cultural traditions. So, hope you're going to come back. We'll talk about this maybe in just a second … 

But so after you graduate from Ball State, you then return to Indianapolis to pursue your own fulfilling career. And one of your first jobs was with the Arts Council of Indianapolis. Why don't you tell us more about that organization and the kind of work you were doing on behalf of the council?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yeah, sure. Well, I might mention that the summer before my senior year Ball State, I interned at Emmis Communications, and I think there was a relationship between Ball State and Emmis, which landed me my first job. So my first job right out of school was back at Emmis Communications, which was kind of a natural fit for, you know, a Ball State media kind of journalism student to land at Emmis and land in radio.

And that was really fun and that was exciting for the first year. But quickly for me, I think maybe even reminding myself of kind of that upbringing and that dichotomy between a lover and a scientist, the work there fell kind of short, felt kind of flat, felt kind of empty. And then I went to the Arts Council of Indianapolis shortly after, and I learned there about the arts in a different context, the art as an industry and as a corporate environment.

The Arts Council taught me a lot. It kind of built that foundation for where I would cement myself. I got to work on public art projects. Julian Opie has a piece called Ann Dancing that is on Mass Ave right now. That is a very popular public art piece that I got to help coordinate. Art & Soul is an annual program that celebrates African American art and artists in central Indiana. It's happening right now, and I got to manage that. I got to manage a directory of artists, and I get to think about grants and processes and who grants typically fund and who they even call artists. Who can be defined as an artist, what kind of art can be described as fine art. Those are the kind of questions that started to arise for me at the Arts Council.

And yeah, it provided a really great footing. I was there for almost five years. Yeah.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And so, then you left the Arts Council to be a director at the Madam Walker Theater Center in Indianapolis. And so I'm sure that some of our listeners may not be familiar with Madam Walker. Can you first tell us a little bit more about her and her legacy and then share with us what your responsibilities were when you worked at that theater?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yeah. Gosh. So Madam Walker was an entrepreneur. She was a philanthropist, a political activist born in Louisiana, gosh, probably late 1800s, and had a business. She had a thriving business. And she was on a trip to Indianapolis for one of those times and attempted to go to the movies here in Indianapolis. She attempted to go watch a movie. And at the door, they tried to charge Madam Walker twice the price of, you know, a normal ticket for the movie.

And she said, “Well, why is that? It clearly says it's ten cents. Why am I being charged twenty cents?” And that was because she was an African-American woman at that time going to this to this theater. And so Madam Walker left and she said, “I will build my own theater. I will build my own theater on my own ground.”

And now we have the Madam Walker Theater Center on historic Indiana Avenue in downtown Indianapolis, which is a testament to her word, to her pioneering, to her vision, and to that kind of commitment to herself and kind of the community around her. So it was quite an honor to work at the Madam Walker Theater Center and to learn and just begin to absorb history in our state, in our city, in our country. And the stories about those histories and the narrating of those stories now. At the Walker, I was responsible for marketing and for programs. And I kind of describe that time as turning the building inside out. The Walker Theater is a place that. you kind of know is important. And right now it's surrounded by thousands and thousands of college students, because it's on IUPUI’s campus now, and it's a place that is kind of revered. But people don't know exactly why. And so, my job was to kind of, you know, turn it inside out, and to say this place should be respected because of this … because of this person, because of the arts and because of the legacy. And so, I was there for a few years. It was a total shock, total difference from working at the Arts Council. 

And it became clear to me that there's a lot of work to be done, not only for the Walker, but also for the legacy of Madam Walker and also for the legacy of Indiana Avenue and also for the legacy of jazz, you know, in music and from Indiana, in the artists from Indiana. And so, it very much felt like I could make a bigger impact. I could make a bigger dent in the advocacy and the learning of all of that, if, um, if I wasn't there. If I could be outside of it, if I could be nimble in a way that I could have these broader discussions and get people to respect and reconsider the Walker that way.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So maybe this is a bit presumptuous for me, but it certainly sounds that Madame Walker and her life story, her story of determination and courage, that that’s a…I take it that that's a source of inspiration, almost a role model for you?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Oh, gosh. I mean, I guess so. I you know, I actually think about the way that I got that job was researching Madam Walker. And finding out that her great, great granddaughter is A'Lelia Bundles, who lives in D.C. and is this wonderful author, and she's on CNN, and she's a biographer and just this amazing person. And I actually found her email address and I actually had a conversation with her for an hour about the Walker in Indianapolis.

And A'Lelia is now on my board of directors here at GANGGANG. And so, she might be considered more of a mentor for me because of her commitment to the legacy of her great grandmother, more than Madam Walker.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So as a result of your work at the Arts Council and at the Walker Theater, you are—and you're going to be too modest—but I'm going to say it for you: You were really making a name for yourself in Indianapolis. You were becoming known as someone who could manage projects where the intersection of race and arts and culture and civic pride where, you know, where that intersection was happening.

And so you then started consulting, as you mentioned a moment ago, you were consulting with some other companies and nonprofit organizations, including Visit Indiana. How did this work, that is, how did this work helping other organizations address their diversity, equity and inclusion and culture goals, how did that instill in you the confidence and the courage to create your own nonprofit organization?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yeah… It’s so interesting because I feel like entrepreneurship has always kind of like, been around me or something that is tugging at me, but maybe I ran away from it as long as I could. Maybe I didn't embrace it as much. But yeah, after the Walker, I was starting to be called on by Indianapolis by, as you mentioned, folks like Visit Indy who said, “Hey, we need to think about things like diversity in our marketing,” you know, and this is, I don't know, maybe ten years ago when the DEI subject was kind of becoming more at the forefront, more in daily conversations.

And so, I was also becoming this voice, as you mentioned, this intersection between civic pride, you know, these stakeholders, these civic institutions in Indianapolis and conversations about diversity and race and the arts and how those things all intertwine. And so, people would just begin to ask me, “Hey, would you consider a diversity audit on our marketing? We want to be sure that we're portraying Indianapolis to potential visitors correctly.

And I remember hearing from Conner Prairie about their demographics, and how can we start to diversify our audiences. And so, when entities started to call on me, I thought, what does this mean? Am I supposed to consult? You know, should… this be a business? And so I tried it. It was scary. I did it, and I was … I only was interested in having those conversations, you know, being that safe voice and being kind of a strategic thinker with these institutions, but never was really interested in like, the paperwork.

[MALI JEFFERS]

[laughs ] You know, I wasn't a business major. I didn't do … I didn't study that part.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

You were a creative thinker, not a business accountant.

[MALI JEFFERS]

Exactly. Exactly. So I actually found myself back in corporate America. I went back because during one of those conversations, somebody said, “Well, you should just work for me. I need somebody who thinks this way and thinks about community and people and marketing and storytelling. You should just work here in real estate.” And I thought, “Oh my gosh, it has nothing to do with what I do, but okay, I don't want to run a business anyway.”

And so I did that. And then 2020 came and I found myself being called to entrepreneurship once again.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And so that's when in 2020, you and your partner, Alan, and that's when you launched GANGGANG. Tell us first, what’s the the meaning behind the name GANGGANG?

[MALI JEFFERS]

 Yeah, well, “gang” actually means a journey or a way. That's the original definition of gang. Later, in Middle English, it became a group of people or things on a journey together or going someplace together. 

So, the way that “gang” as a term is used now in contemporary society to criminalize groups of Black men is false. And so, when we were thinking of, you know, names or phrases or words that had to do with this organization that we were attempting to build, you know, it didn't feel right or it didn't feel like the time to call it, you know, the Center for Creative, whatever, whatever.

It felt like the time to really make a statement and be bold and reclaim the beauty of a word as a proof point of the further work that we would be doing, the further uncovering of truth. So, “gang” means people, people on a journey together. And that's exactly what we are.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So shortly after you launched that new venture, your firm, GANGGANG, was tapped to bring art, music and entertainment to the 2021 NCAA men's basketball tournament. And that was an unusual tournament because COVID was still hanging around. And so, all of the teams that qualified, they were not dispersed in regional qualifying tournaments. All of the tournaments came to Indianapolis for that entire three-week period.

So, tell us what you did to bring that sense of art and music and entertainment to perhaps the most extraordinary NCAA basketball tournament in our history. Tell us more about that experience.

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yeah, Wow. Gosh, that was such a time. That was such a pressuring time for Indianapolis as we scurried to, you know, host yet another great event, as we do so well. And I think what was so interesting about that time, you know, is that it's post-COVID … it’s a large event that we have to navigate in a pandemic.

And our city said, “What do we do?” And they turned to the arts. You know, I don't want to dismiss that when our city was in crisis, when much of our country was in crisis, and we needed to host something large on an international stage, we said, “Oh my gosh, we need the arts, you know, as recovery, as savior, as vibrancy.”

And so we were able to work with Indiana Sports Corp and the Indian Arts Culture Trail and the Arts Council of Indianapolis to coordinate Swish. We named it Swish, you know, pulling on that basketball theme, but bringing it down to the ground, making it kind of cool. And we decided to host a community-wide, city-wide downtown outdoor festival.

We curated 243 live performances that happened over the course of those four weekends to guarantee to both residents of Indianapolis and all of the visitors that we were welcoming, that the creatives are here … that we are still here and that we are still creating, and that we are the storytellers of the pandemic, you know, or of hard times and of triumphs.

And that in this moment, this is where you can find grace and this is where you can find camaraderie. This is where you can find community at a time when we hadn't had so much of it. So that was a really beautiful time and a really hard time. I still don't think Alan has recovered from curating so many performances. [laughs]

I mean, they were back-to-back, and it was it was a lot, but it was also a great kind of first opportunity for GANGGANG as a new arts organization to be called on for such a large stage and to show what we could do. To show that we can take something on like this and that our creatives can also step up to the plate.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Well, Alan may not have yet recovered, but in that same year, in 2021, it was also the first year that GANGGANG launched Butter, which is your distinctive fine arts fair. Describe for us, you know, what was the impetus for creating Butter and what did you and Alan, what did you want to accomplish for emerging artists of color?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Wow, I cannot believe that the first Butter happened that same year as Swish. I don't know how we did all of that in one year, but I think it's … it's momentum. And as you said, you know, kind of what was driving us at that time. You know, we have to remember this was right after 2020. So, we're in a pandemic and we're in this kind of new civil race war.

And there were lots of entities, you know, just folks trying to figure out how to lift up Black creatives. And there were a lot more museums and exhibition halls showing their work, you know, showing the work of Black creatives. And I remember going to two shows in one night and having the thought that the work is phenomenal, the work is incredible, the work is telling really beautiful stories right now … but I think I can offer better context. I think I can do this better justice. 

And Butter was kind of born there in the in the concept of context around showing and exhibiting work made by Black artists. And so that's really the difference. So we worked to put a multi-day fine art fair together in downtown Indianapolis, and we hoped that maybe a thousand people during COVID would come and check out these artworks.

So we worked with the Stutz, the historic Stutz Building in downtown. We did it in historic Indiana Avenue, that cultural district, again, thinking about how I can shed light onto this … to this place. And almost 4,000 people came to look at this art. We were overwhelmed by how the artists felt seen and cared for and respected in a new way.

And we were overwhelmed by Indianapolis’ response to wanting to see art in new ways and wanting to purchase this art and invest in these artists and to find out more about their stories. 

And so Butter, gosh, Butter has taken off into places that maybe I … maybe I thought were coming? Maybe I didn't have time to think about … but The New York Times spent, you know, more than a day with us and has now told the world during Art Basel that Butter is creating a new model for equity in the arts. And that is incredible. That is exactly what we have been testing this new model to give 100% of profit back to the artists, which is not traditional in our industry. And so, yeah, it's it's … it's wild. It's wild.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. And so this past September, over Labor Day weekend of 2022, GANGGANG hosted Butter 2, which, as I understand, was even bigger than the first event. More space, more artists, more people attending. Did the second Butter Arts Festival also exceed your expectations?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yes. For Butter 2, my pressure was to just meet the expectation of Butter 1. That was the goal. I said, if I can just do Butter 1 again, then we will have won. So Alan and I were like, “Yes, let's, you know, let's … do that again.” Butter 2 saw almost 8000 people and it doubled in size. It doubled in the number of artists, and it was I mean, you could find us at any point of the weekend kind of standing back with our mouths open and, you know, like managing this whole thing, like what just happened. 

So it is .. it's very interesting to be on the front end of something, but also being, you know, born and raised in Indianapolis, which is a convention city and a place, you know, we host great events and conferences for the world.

And I have somehow managed to spark one here —on our own. You know, so we're growing this kind of micro convention in our own backyard in a place that is unexpected for many reasons. You know, to talk about arts on a national scale. I think it's a surprising conversation. And I think that's why The New York Times kind of said, “Huh?” But it’s working. 

And Butter 3 will happen again this year over Labor Day weekend. And it's hard to think about what to expect.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Well, so that's where I'm going to ask you, though, to tell us a little bit more, given the success of Butter, and Butter 3 that's coming Labor Day, and your commitment to the exceptional mission and those results, tell us what else is next for GANGGANG?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Um, gosh, 2023 is already really interesting. But our intent here, you know, this is year three of our startup. You know, this is year three of a startup arts organization. And so, we call this the Year of Refinement, we call it the Year of Advocacy. So many people have come to Butter and other activations of GANGGANG that feel really exciting and really vibrant.

And we are often asked about the next big thing that we're going to do or what can someone attend. But so much of what we are doing is about advocacy. And this year, it leans more into the storytelling and the mission to create new systems that center creatives as a path toward equity. So this year's about reminding people that Butter is fun, It's a great time. It's the most vibrant, diverse arts festival that you might attend in the Midwest. But it's also an experiment, at the end of the day, an experiment toward new models of equity in this global industry. And so, we don't … we don't even talk about events at GANGGANG. We don't say that we have fun events or activities. We have tactics and we have experiments toward this model.

And 2023 is about scale. It's about advocacy again, and testing those models in new places and on larger scales like the [NBA] All-Star game, for example, which will be here in Indianapolis in February of 2024. We have a lot of work to do to prepare for the visitors that will be here in Indianapolis. And so that we're thinking about things like that.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Very exciting. So, on a more local one local question .. so in between all the projects you had at GANGGANG, you and ALan made time to visit Ball State last spring and I was delighted to host you and visit with you. So that was your first visit back to campus in quite some time. What were your impressions of campus and how it had changed since you were a student here?

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yeah. Gosh, it was so wonderful to be back. Thanks again for that visit. It was really nice to even make the drive up and, you know, just to kind of see the beautiful campus and realize how beautiful the campus was. I'm not sure, you know, I knew at the time I remember sitting in the grass, I remember sitting under trees and I remember running through campus, you know, just jogging … And I remember the color of the leaves. I do remember the beauty. But the visit back reminded me of that … of just the beauty on campus. 

And it also reminded me of how self-centered, not in a negative way, but how self-focused I was. And maybe students are while they're there. And I did not know about all the resources that were available. The resources in terms of faculty, in terms of programs, in terms of just everything that you, that the students now have access to. I wish I was a little more … umm, not shy and not just kind of like, you know, here to learn and figure this out and figure out the next step, too. But the visit really reminded me of what is all available at Ball State.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So, when my wife and I, when we visit with incoming students, we have several large events at Bracken House to welcome new students, particularly some students who may be first generation in their family to go to college and don't know all the resources and opportunities that exist on the campus. So my wife, Jennifer, she gives them all a to do list.

She gives them about ten or 12 things they need to do: go to the art museum, go to a concert in Sirsa Hall, go to the Rinard Greenhouse, you know, go to all of the performances that exists. So she's trying you know, what you just described, I think is a common experience of students. So, it's her mission here at Ball State to make sure as much as possible other students take advantage of those resources.

[MALI JEFFERS]

Great. It's great to hear. I'm glad I'm not the only one. [laughs]

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah, no, it's a common experience. So let me wrap up here. So much of the work that you do and the work that you do with GANGGANG, it's centered on the idea of promoting your culture and your passion for art and giving back to your hometown of Indianapolis. And so that really leads me to my final question, and it's a question that I ask all of my guests.

It's a question about beneficence, which, as you remember, is this beautiful statue on our campus. And it's an icon and it's a visible and tangible reminder of our culture and our enduring values. And it means at its core, it means the act of doing good, of serving others. So, Mali, tell us what beneficence means to you in your career and in your life.

[MALI JEFFERS]

Yeah, thank you. I really have to give kudos to my now husband, Alan, because he is kind of this daily reminder and the driver of our ultimate mission here, which is daily service. You know, beneficence is a reminder to me of being a servant leader and a reminder that this work is about the greater common good. How can we show up every day? And this is something that Alan asks all of us: How can we show up and work for what's beyond us, for what's beyond what we can see, what's beyond Indianapolis? You know, this work is for cities at large and for people at large and to, yeah, be reminders of our behaviors and how they impact the greater common good.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Well, thank you, Mali. You are the embodiment of our aspiration for all of our Ball State graduates. That is that you will use your experience and your education here to have a fulfilling career and to lead a meaningful life. And so, you are … you are an inspiration for all of our students, our graduates, and for me as well.

Thank you for joining me for this conversation.

[MALI JEFFERS]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's great to talk and it's great to remember my time—such an important time in my life—at Ball State. Thank you. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Thank you.