S4E1: An Academic Leader Tackles the Biography of a BSU and NFL Football Star (Roy Weaver, Author and Teachers College Dean Emeritus)

Roy Weaver spent nearly 30 years serving Ball State University—first as a faculty member and then as an administrator. He was the associate dean of our Teachers College for 10 years, before serving another 16 years as dean.

In addition to his passion for serving Ball State students, Roy has a passion for Ball State football, which celebrates its 100th season in 2024. Roy’s appreciation for the Cardinals inspired him to co-write a book about Timmy Brown, a former All-American football player for Ball State who later became an NFL champion for the Philadelphia Eagles.

In this episode, Roy recounts memories from his educational and professional journey at Ball State. He also shares more about the work that went into writing Running Against the Grain: The Story of Philadelphia Eagle and Movie Star Timmy Brown and why he felt compelled to write this biography of the late football player-turned-Hollywood star.

Roy’s book about Timmy Brown is available for purchase at www.eagle22.org. If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review to support the show. 

Transcript

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Hello, I'm Geoff Mearns, and I have the good fortune to serve as the president here at Ball State University. The start of another new academic year brings the launch of another new season of my podcast, my fourth season.

For those listeners who are keeping count and this month, I'm welcoming to the podcast a guest with longstanding ties to our university, Dr. Roy Weaver. Roy spent nearly 30 years serving our university and our Teachers College, first as a faculty member and then as an administrator. He was associate dean of the college for ten years before serving another 16 years as dean.

And then, at my request, Roy came back out of retirement to serve as interim dean of Teachers College for another three years. Roy has joined me in the studio today to talk about his educational and professional journey here at Ball State, and help me celebrate a major milestone this month for Ball State Athletics, which he is also very passionate about.

That is, our Cardinals kicked off their 100th season of play on September 7th with a win over Missouri State at Schuman Stadium. Roy was at the game that day, and I'm sure he could share with me and with all of you a few statistics about our current players. But what I really want to ask him about is a new book, which is about one of our University's past football players, a player with perhaps the most successful post-collegiate athletic career of any Ball State athlete.

In the late 1950s, Timmy Brown was an All-American football player for Ball State. He went on to become an NFL champion for the Philadelphia Eagles. And today, we're going to learn about how Roy and his coauthors David Sullivan, a Ball State graduate and former assistant managing editor for the Philadelphia Inquirer, and Sean Shriver, assessment and accreditation coordinator for Teachers College and entertainment historian. How they have shared Timmy's compelling life story in their new book, Running Against the Grain: The Story of Philadelphia Eagle and Movie Star Timmy Brown. So, Roy, good morning and welcome to my podcast.

[ROY WEAVER]

Thank you. It's great to be here.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

It's good to see you as always. So before we talk a little bit about Ball State and Ball State sports and your post-career journey as an author, let's first talk about your upbringing. I always like to ask my guests a little bit about where you grew up.

[ROY WEAVER]

I was born in Huntington, Indiana, in 1947. I've lived all of my life in Indiana, except for five years. My first real remembrance as a child is Roanoke, Indiana—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Where is Roanoke—

[ROY WEAVER]

Roanoke is on Highway 24 between Fort Wayne and Huntington. And, at the time, my father was a tool and die maker. My mother worked at Essex Wire in Fort Wayne. She worked there until I was nine years old, when she delivered a brother, and at that point she decided she would stay home and work there. And, I really enjoyed the time at Roanoke Elementary School.

My father had, with family and friends, had built a two-story home out in the country, and there was a creek that ran through it. There were a lot of wooded areas. It was a wonderful place as a child to, fish, dream, camp. Just exist in nature. It was just a wonderful childhood. He began working in Marion, so he carpooled. And so at the end of my seventh grade, we bought a house in Sweetser, Indiana.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Where is Sweetser?

[ROY WEAVER]

Sweetser is off of Highway 18, out of Marion. It's very close to the General Motors plant in Marion.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So another very rural home?

[ROY WEAVER]

It was. Well, you know, in that case, it was a small addition. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Okay. 

[ROY WEAVER]

We had moved from out of the country into the small addition there. And I went there at a pretty opportune time for a young person because, you know, normally it's a transition in going into a school is pretty tough. But then in the year that I went, they were consolidating Sweetser, Swayzee and Converse merged.

And so in a sense, all the students going to school there were new. The big problem was they anticipated somebody 6’8 coming in to play in the basketball team. And I never made it be beyond 5’5. So I was a sore disappointment to the community. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

You weren’t a great addition to the basketball team—

[ROY WEAVER]

No, no, no. So that that was my childhood and, it was really both places had, populations around 800 to 1000, and most people never lock their doors. It was kind of both places that were sort of Mayberry.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Right? Kind of an idyllic childhood.

[ROY WEAVER]

It really was. It was very nice.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So I understand, though, that like many of our students, you were the first in your family to attend college. What? What drew you to Ball State? In addition to the geographic proximity?

[ROY WEAVER]

Well, one was it was close to home. And you may never have heard this before, but at that time, a lot of us referred to Ball State as a suitcase college. And what we meant was we still enjoyed going home. It was nice to have your mother, or somebody, do your laundry, cook good meals on a weekend so you could tolerate the food the rest of the week and go back home.

Now, we didn't do it that often. And gradually, as we were on campus longer, we stayed away. But really, the familiarity and the fact that, I was good friends with my parents and I enjoyed them always. So, the transition was good for me. And I think there were a number of students who found themselves the same way.

Another one was that I had friends who were going to school there. In fact, one of them, Larry John, eventually ended up being the superintendent at some schools around here. We roomed together just across the street from Bethel Pizza King. And the advantage of that was, every time they closed, they would invite us over and we could get some scraps of pizza left at late at night. So that helped us out, too. But I came when Ball State was in the, yeah, quarter system. And I came right after high school because I wasn't confident that I could do it. I thought I could, but I really wasn't that confident. So I thought, well, coming the first quarter, getting a start right away, might be a good idea.

And other than the fact that I regret today, not getting to party as much because I kept going every quarter, so I finished in three years instead of four. That's my only regret in some ways. But, it was very good for me. And what I always remember is, Professor McGibbon in English. He was a stately looking man. He seemed imposing some ways, but he was very kind, and he was very caring. And I really think that his approach to dealing with students made a difference for a lot of people. And it did me. It put me at ease right away. And there was no fear. He was always comforting and, uh, very bright and challenging, but just a warm human being. And I'll never forget him because it was my first quarter. I was frightened, I wasn't sure, and he did everything he could for all of us, and yet he was very demanding. I ended up being an English major, in part because of his influence.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah, well, and you and I have a couple things in common. In addition to Ball State, in addition to being a Ball State sports fan, you, as you said a moment ago, your earned your degree in English. So did I. And your first job out of college was as a high school teacher. That was my first job out of college. So tell us about the early days of your career after you graduated from Ball State and embarked on a career in education?

[ROY WEAVER]

Yeah, my first teaching position was at Fairmont East High School in Kettering, Ohio. That school no longer exists. Not because I taught there. But, when I was there, I taught English and speech, and I also had an opportunity to be an assistant tennis coach, which I enjoyed. And I was there for one year.

And then I came to Muncie Central and taught in the old school on High Street. Which was a wonderful environment to teach in back then. And I taught the same courses essentially, and I also coached, in this case, I spent a year coaching the varsity tennis team.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. And so from there you then re-enrolled that Ball State to earn a master's degree. And then with that strong educational foundation, you went down to Bloomington, where you earned your doctorate. After building that educational background, what was the next professional opportunity that you had?

[ROY WEAVER]

I, uh, had connections in a way, through the professor I work with at IU as a doc assistant. His name was Harold Shane. He had been a dean at IU, and he knew the dean, Steve Knezevich, Southern California University. And so, sometimes it is who someone knows and helps. And, both were very gracious, and I got an interview and I took the job. It was quite a switch, in a way.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

A little change from—

[ROY WEAVER]

From Roanoke, Sweetser to LA?  A bit of a change. But, so I was there and I taught curriculum, graduate courses. I became a consultant for the LA Unified School District on magnet schools and alternative schools. I had the opportunity and took over a publication that was run out of IU. It was a national publication called Changing Schools that focused on K-12 options and innovations. I did that also, so it was a good experience.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

But then you came back.

[ROY WEAVER]

Right.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And I've heard you say on many occasions that that Ball State University and the Ball State campus is, is in your blood. Is that why you left the West Coast in 1980? To come back here to teach?

[ROY WEAVER]

I’ll work up to that.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Okay.

[ROY WEAVER]

Sort of.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Okay.

[ROY WEAVER]

One of the advantages I had at USC had a lot of opportunities to teach overseas. We also had an education center in Washington, D.C. I was teaching and when I taught in D.C., I taught, at 1763 North Street. I remember a three story brownstone. And, it was a wonderful experience. But we taught, the first weekend, the second week and third weekend. And in between classes, you could visit students. You could, visit institutes and talk to people. It was a wonderful experience. But, while I was there this time, I had noticed increasingly, you could pick up the LA Times and you'd read a story about a second or third grader walking home from school being gunned down by a gang member as part of gang initiation rites.

I got a call that, uh, a gang had driven into the park where our two children played and had fired six shots in there. And I decided at that moment, I couldn't stay there. If I had not had children, I'd probably still be there, but I just had the thought of every day having to go to work, wondering that something might happen to your child.

I began looking, and of course, I knew Jim McElhaney, who was in in the curriculum area, and that's where I got my master's degree and he was chair of my master's thesis. So I just called him and said, hey, I'm looking. And in my mind I was looking for a short term solution. I would try to get back to someplace I knew, if it was available and there was a job.

I came back and I interviewed and I got it. So, in a way, Ball State was foremost in my mind as a temporary sanctuary where I could come and feel safer and get together. So it was inviting in a very special way. And I never left.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

I was going to say temporary turned into more than three decades. 

[ROY WEAVER]

Yeah. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So when you came back, you initially served as a faculty member, a professor for a few years, but then pretty quickly transitioned into administration. First as an associate dean and then the dean for 16 years at Teachers College. Tell us what drew you from the classroom to wanting to become the administrator that you were for so many years?

[ROY WEAVER]

Well, I have an odd response to that one. I had never had any real administrative experience ever. In high school. At USC. Any place. And there was a position open for the associate dean, and it was going to be internal. And I looked at the people who had applied, I knew them, and I thought, well, why not try? I thought, well, based on experience, I obviously didn't have any, really.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Relative to their credentials?

[ROY WEAVER]

Relative. And I won't go into the entire story, but I was offered the job. I was the third person offered the job. I was offered the job because one person was offered the job and had planned to take a trip with his girlfriend overseas. And the dean said, if you want the job, you need to start it now. He decided to go on the trip with his girlfriend. A second person had looked for a grant to renovate part of Burris at a time when the university was planning to close Burris. So politically, that was not wise. So I was the third choice, and I got the job. I've always believed, though, that when people doubt you or don't consider you, you figure out ways to show them they’ve made a big mistake. And that's always been.... I've tried to, you know, if you don't think I can do it, let me show you. So it’s a strange story. I mean, I still look back and kind of laugh that I probably never would have hired somebody myself like that.

[GEOFF MEARNS] 

Although maybe there's a lesson in there that, you know, we we should look a little—

[ROY WEAVER]

Don't ever sell yourself short.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Right. And also look for those hidden gems among our colleagues. 

[ROY WEAVER]

Right. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So while you were the dean of Teachers College, that's when you met Timmy Brown. So why don't you tell our listeners to share with them that story. And tell us how you knew that very evening that his life story was something that should be written about?

[ROY WEAVER]

Yeah, it was February of 2008. And as you know, deans, hold receptions for alumni. And I had scheduled a reception for Palm Springs. And I would always get a list of people who are going to be there in advance. And I saw the name Tim Brown. I thought, I wonder if that's the same Tim Brown I know of who went to Ball State and played the NFL.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Had you been had you seen him as an athlete? 

[ROY WEAVER]

On TV. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

But not here at Ball State?

[ROY WEAVER]

Well, on TV at Ball State. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Oh, okay.

[ROY WEAVER]

I saw him in a 1966 game against the Dallas Cowboys and, uh, was thrilled to see he was the first person in NFL history, on that day, to run two kickoffs back for touchdowns in the same game. No one had ever done that before. So that was the first time I saw or met Timmy Brown. But, and he said he was planning to go, but he had a cold and he wasn't sure he would make it. But I went and he did come. And he wasn't at all the celebrity type that you might imagine. He was very well dressed. He looked like he could still play football. He always really kept care of himself. And he was an immaculate dresser. And, uh, but he was soft spoken and he would walk around and just show interest in other people.

He didn't tell people who he was or anything. And then eventually, about 30 minutes into this, I saw a crowd begin to gather around him, and I wondered what was going on. I went over and he was telling these incredible stories about his life, and people were just mesmerized, and I was too. And so afterwards I said, hey, has anyone ever talked to you about writing a book about your life? He said, well, no one has. I said, well, I'm stepping down as dean. Going back to faculty next fall, would you work with me? And that's how it got started.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Wow. At that reception, the first time you met him?

[ROY WEAVER]

Yeah, yeah. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah, okay. So having read your book, I was like, everyone who's read it, intrigued by Timmy Brown's story, particularly the struggles that he had to overcome as a young child and as a young man. Why don't you tell some of the folks who are listening, tell us a little bit about his his challenges, his life, that early part of his life?

[ROY WEAVER]

Yeah. The biggest struggle he had that weighed with him most of his life was when he was 12 years old. And remember that, he had four sisters and another brother. So there were six in the family. His father, mother divorced when he was 12. And that really hit him hard. In fact, for many years, and I don't know if he ever entirely got over it, he felt somehow that he must have done something that had contributed to the split, which I imagine is a routine thought that most children have in those circumstances.

But it really weighed heavily with him for a long time. And then the aftermath of the divorce was he and his siblings were moved first to a grandfather's home, and that didn't work out. He was a pretty mean spirited character, and they were then moved around. The sisters ended up either with families attending the Richmond Bethel AME church or with family members.

Timmy had an older brother, one year, Buddy, who, they were kept together, and they first ended up with the foster family, a woman who was an evangelist. And that was a really good experience for him because he felt he learned so much from, uh, the evangelist and her husband and just in terms of, common etiquette and how to treat people.

And he just always, to the end of his life, talked about how much she meant, but she became very ill. And so he got moved to a farm family near Cambridge City, Indiana. And that did not work out so well. In fact, while he was, he was beaten on occasion while he was there. That coupled with the fact that a person who was a guy named Freddie Stark was a, black friend of the family, and he temporarily stayed there on the farm because his parents were working with the president of Perfect Circle. And they had gone to Florida. And so Freddie had stayed with them for a while, and they were excited about having another person there. And he was a good athlete at Cambridge. He was older than them by about two years. But Freddie got into an argument with one of the employees of Perfect Circle who was kind of watching the Teeter family home, and, he had decided to have some friends into the house to have a party and, he didn't expect the employee to show up, and the employee did and not only told them to leave but told Freddie he no longer had a job with the company. Freddie, uh, a few days later, got a gun and went and shot this employee 3 or 4 times. He managed to make it next door and lived. And there was a statewide police search for Freddie Stark. About three days later, he was back hiding in the barn at the farm where Timmy and Buddy were living with the Lad family.

And his brother told Bud Lad that, he was there and so Bud Lad called the local police. They were getting ready to board the school bus that morning and heard gunshots. Freddie died at Richmond Hospital not long after that. There are two explanations. One story is that, Freddie had taken a gun and just mistakenly tripped, and the gun went off and killed him. Another one was the police deliberately shot him. And so that never has been resolved, really. But there are two views of what happened. But that was incredibly traumatic, too.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And how old was Timmy Brown at that time?

[ROY WEAVER]

He would have been around 14. So, you had the family divorce. You had this traumatic experience of a black friend being shot and killed by the police. Or, killed himself, whatever you want to believe. But those were two huge incidents at that time. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So, he was, notwithstanding those challenges, Timmy Brown was an outstanding high school athlete. He had a number of college scholarship offers. I think in your book you say it's as many as 15. But it all was to play basketball in college as I understand it. But the only school that he apparently wanted to play for was Ball State Teachers College. So how did he go from playing basketball at Ball State? First of all, why did he want to go to Ball State? How did he go from playing basketball for us to, by his senior year, he was playing football and held six university records and was an All-American college football player.

[ROY WEAVER]

Well, at Morton Memorial where he played basketball, football, and ran track. He was the outstanding county leading scorer his senior year.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

In basketball?

[ROY WEAVER]

In basketball. But at the same time, he led the football team by scoring 115 points.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

That's a lot of points.

[ROY WEAVER]

That's a lot of points. But, so he was a tremendous athlete. Main reason he came to Ball State was, uh, Bill Brewer, who was the basketball coach, knew Jim Hinga, who was the Ball State coach. And he really, Tim really intended to play basketball. He got here. And of course football was the first sport. Now as a freshman, he couldn't play varsity back then.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Right. 

[ROY WEAVER]

And so he said that once he played football he realized he really enjoyed it. But more important than that was he said the muscles you use for one sport don't transfer readily to the other. It takes time. And he felt like Hinga really wanted him to be the leader of the team. He just didn't think that he could make that transition. And he really did enjoy football more. And he was concerned about the fact he had to work and he had to take classes. And so he didn't think he could do both sports. There was no ill will between Hinga and he, they parted in a good place. But, that's why he didn't pursue basketball here.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Right, he chose to—

[ROY WEAVER]

But he later played for the Eagles ... he played basketball. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

What do you mean? 

[ROY WEAVER]

The Eagles have a team that goes around and plays in the community. So I guess he was a real star there. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

I imagine him doing well. So he had a successful career as a Ball State football player. And after leaving Ball State, he played briefly for the Green Bay Packers before, as we've talked about, really having great success as a running back and a kick returner for the Philadelphia Eagles. Tell us a little bit about some of the most significant achievements or milestones in his NFL career.

[ROY WEAVER]

Well, I mentioned one earlier: the two kickoffs against the Cowboys. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. And to digress for just a second now, the NFL has changed the kickoff rule. Not sure anybody will be returning too many kickoff for a touchdown, but that's a subject for sports talk radio. Not our podcast today. 

[ROY WEAVER]

[laughs] We don't want to get into that, do we? He also set a record more recently that was tied by Deebo Samuel, where in two consecutive games, he, had over 100 yards, and he, one touchdown was for receiving a pass, the other was for running. And so, interestingly, no one had done that. And Deebo tied it this year. No one had done that before. So he had two distinct records. Also, when died on April 4th, 2020, he still held four records for the Eagles. He was a three time All-Pro player. He was in the Philadelphia Sports Hall of Fame, the Eagles Hall of Fame. So he had a number of recognitions. One of the things he was convinced was he would never be considered for the NFL Hall of Fame. He played for a coach, Joe Kuharich, and they didn't get along. And Kuharich was very good friends, long-time friends, with the head of the NFL. And Tim alleged that, he was told point blank, “You'll never get into the NFL.” Well, he never thought he'd get it considered. And, uh, he felt he was blackballed. And I will report he is now currently being considered this year—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

For the NFL?

[ROY WEAVER]

For the NFL Hall of Fame. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So after he retired, retired from football, Timmy Brown transitioned into a full time acting career. What were some of the television shows and the movies that he appeared in?

[ROY WEAVER]

The most memorable movies were Mash: The Movie and Nashville. He did about 13 other movies. Of course, he also was in the first six episodes of the TV series Mash. He was in Wild Wild West, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Adam 12, Mission Impossible, Remington Steele. He also appeared in I've Got a Secret Game Show and Password. His secret in I've Got a Secret was that he wrote a record as a football player, and the title of the record was I've Got a Secret.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

[laughs] I'm sure the show picked up on that.

[ROY WEAVER]

They did, they did. And so, he appeared on the show, and that was ... he also was identified from NFL, films, and EPSN as a renaissance man. He was also a model for Body 500 and Jantzen Swimwear. So he was an actor, a model, the singer, a movie star and all of these things.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Right, a remarkable career. So, as you said a moment ago, Timmy Brown died in April of 2020. So he never got a chance to read the book that you wrote about him. But I suspect that the two of you spent a lot of time together when you were doing your research. Tell us what that experience was like for you. And what was his reaction to you wanting to write a book about his life?

[ROY WEAVER]

Well, it was interesting that one of the things we decided early on was that when we got a rough draft of something written, eventually he and I would sit down and go over it. Sometimes Marilyn was with me too, and the goal was—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Tell the listeners who Marilyn is?

[ROY WEAVER]

Marilyn is my wife.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

And what is her discipline?

[ROY WEAVER]

She was in journalism.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So she was a writer by profession.

[ROY WEAVER]

Right. And she did a lot of work with me on that, too. Sorry about that. But, so, we would go over things. He loved to read parts of it, and the idea was, read it for, to see if there's something missing that we should have included. Or is what we've written accurate? And so he would read some, and occasionally we'd stop and go on. We'd often do that sometimes out over breakfast. I recall the last time we really did this, Marilyn was with me. We were at Elmer's in Palm Springs, and, we were working on the chapter where he came to Ball State, and he used to laugh and say, well, we're both Gemini. And so we really understand each other. And which meant we could be bizarre with each other at times. But he was a guy who like to joke with me, kind of pull my leg. And so, I was reading the part about his coming to Ball State, and he looked at me. He said,” I didn't go to Ball State, I went to Butler.” And I said, “Oh, come on, you're joking with me.” I laughed and he didn't laugh. And he said, “No, really. I went to Butler.” And I said, “Are you playing with me?” He had this really stern look and, stared at me straight long. He said, “No, I went to Ball State .... I mean, I went to Butler. I said, “No, you went to Ball State. Your brother went to Butler.” He said, “No, that's not right.” So that's the last time I was able to talk to him about the book, because that signaled the beginning of the dementia that we noticed. And I was able not long ago with, with the help of his son and some others, to get him to see a neurologist. But he was so slick and savvy that people had trouble really understanding how there could be anything wrong with the guy. It was his charisma, his fun loving attitude, his caring about others. But that was the first and, it was, tested and determined that he did have it.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So I want to ask a follow up question, as you say, about him caring for other people. You know, I often admire the character of our students and our graduates. And, as you say, when you read the book, you can see that Timmy Brown had a passion for helping other people. For many years, from the late 1980s into early 2000, he worked with the Los Angeles Probation Department. He was counseling young people who were in gangs and adult offenders. He was honored for that work. He received the department's volunteer of the year award. And that work, in what you said a moment ago, tells us a lot about his character and his integrity. What were some of the other values or traits that you got to know about him that you admired? And so, felt obligated to share with the folks who are going to read your book.

[ROY WEAVER]

He really loved life. And in a way that was interesting because there are many ways you'd say he always kind of fell short of what he could have accomplished, but he was always satisfied with that. There was something about him that, he didn't grouse about it. He didn't, get upset about it. He just thought, well, that was life. And he accepted it and was happy with who he was. He was very honest and very direct. He was extremely polite. He would always open the door for a woman. And if they were going someplace, he would gently put his hand on her shoulder and nudge them forward or something in the old fashioned kind of politeness.

And so his positive outlook on life, his care about others, his really deeply caring about youth gang members and adults. He spent ten years with the probation office working there, working on counseling and actually living there for a couple nights over the weekends, when he worked for five years with the youth gangs.

So he was such a giving person. He would he would do almost anything for anybody. And so he's just one of the warmest, kindest, easiest to know, get along with people I've ever met in my life. 

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yeah. So, in a moment, I'm going to ask you the final question that I ask all of my guests. But before I do that, I want to give you an opportunity to really plug your book. Tell your listeners how they can get a copy of your book if they're interested to read more about Timmy Brown and your great work.

[ROY WEAVER]

It's available at the Barnes and Noble Ball State Bookstore on campus to pick up. It's available online. It's available through any local bookstore, typically online. I'll be at all the home football games this fall, selling the book and autographing it. It can also be ordered through our book, website, which is eagle22.org. And it has a pretty robust site that has archived other stories, films, and things that are interesting to see.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

So why don't you one more time tell us what the title of the book is so that they know what to look for.

[ROY WEAVER]

The book is Running Against the Rain

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Running Against the Grain

[ROY WEAVER]

the GRAIN, the story of Philadelphia Eagle and movie star Timmy Brown.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Great. Thank you, Roy. So here's my last question. And it's one, as I said a moment ago, that I ask all of my guests and it relates back to this idea of character and values. As you know, at Ball State, we're guided everything we do. We're guided by a set of enduring values. And those values are represented by the iconic statue of Beneficence.

And we believe Beneficence is the tangible manifestation of our important mission, which is to empower our students to have fulfilling careers and to lead meaningful lives. And beneficence also means the quality of doing good for other people through service and philanthropy. We spoke a moment ago about the good that Timmy Brown did in his life. So now I want to ask you, Roy, what does beneficence, what does doing good for other people mean to you?

[ROY WEAVER]

For me at least, in terms of my own job and time here, you know, it always meant looking for new ideas that would make a significant difference in bettering the lives for others. There are a lot of examples of that. The Indiana Academy, creation of the Indiana Academy, the requirement of Apple laptops for all teaching majors. We had a professional development school network that brought together educators and teachers and community members to work in developing, uh, schools in the neighborhoods and in the state.

So there are a number of ideas like that, the autism program that was created that’s one of the largest in the country. And in most of those, I didn't have a major role, but I had some opportunity to work with. And, what I always recall was, I had the good fortune of having a lot of people who were creative risk takers. And were looking for ideas and worked collaboratively.

I'll give you one example that, epitomizes this, I think, in a big way. I had a chance to, with a couple of other teachers, one from Burris and one from Teachers College, to meet with Robert Sullivan many years ago at the Natural History Museum. Robert was director of the education division of the museum. And it may not be known by many, but Burris was the first school in the United States to ever receive artifacts to be used in science from that museum, and they still have them.

But while we were there, we were talking about electronic field trips, which we were in the business of doing those. Those were always live, interactive broadcast, working with different organizations. We worked with NASA, Baseball Hall of Fame, Holocaust Museum, the Whitney Gallery, the National Parks, all kinds of places. And what I said was, I asked him, I said, “Well, how many people come to your museum?”

And he said, well, what do you mean? I said, well, let me ask it a different way. I said, you're publicly supported, right? He said, yeah. I said, well, I worked in LA and taught the University of Southern California. I said, Watts is this neighborhood down the street? How many families from Watts have been to the Natural History Museum? He kind of chuckled and he said, what do you mean?

I said, well, they're taxpayers too. Don't you have a responsibility to them? He said, what do you mean? I said, why don't you open up your museum and share the treasures of the museum to children in schools around the world? We can do it technologically through electronic field trips. And so that was a part of the notion of dreaming big, thinking out of the box. And what can we do that will make a grand influence on something that children would never otherwise have a chance to have? So that's one of the many ideas, but always drove us to find something new, innovate big, have a great influence. We had a great run for 13 years, so that's one of many examples I could give. And there's so many other people that I'd like to give credit to, because I really never was, I was fortunate because we could do so many things, because I didn't have to be the person doing everything. I had great people who loved being innovative and creative and taking risk. And so to me, that was, that's one of the examples I always think about, of thinking about the impossible, making it happen. And having a dramatic impact and changing the world in a great way. 

[GEOFF MEARNS] 

Yeah. Well, as you know, Roy, one of our enduring values is also gratitude. So in the spirit of gratitude, thank you for joining us. Joining me for this conversation, sharing this experience, these experiences with our listeners. And also, I just want to take this moment once again to express my gratitude to you for your service to the University and your support for me.

When I arrived, we were in transition at Teachers College. You graciously, with Marilyn's support, agreed to come back and serve for several years as the interim dean of Teachers College.

[ROY WEAVER]

I agreed to come back for one year.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

You agreed to come back for one, but you actually stayed for three at my request [Roy laughs]. And I'm very grateful to you for doing that. You helped ensure that not only the university, but teachers college. You know, we're the fifth largest teachers college, in the country. But we are the premier, the nation's premier, teacher and education preparation programs. And you ensured that, that we would continue that. And I'm grateful to you for that. And you mentioned taking risks. You were there with me side by side as we embarked on this distinctive partnership with the Muncie Community Schools. So I'm grateful to you. Thank you, Roy.

[ROY WEAVER]

And that was a real risk because I, you know, when it was—

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yes, I do remember what.

[ROY WEAVER]

The Christmas.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yes, I do Christmas of 2017.

[ROY WEAVER]

And I never told Marilyn why I went to your office.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Yes. So that's another story for another day. But we spent a long Christmas weekend, drafting what would become the legislation that now reflects the distinctive partnership between Ball State—

[ROY WEAVER]

A quick, important aside, my family's felt gratitude toward the university. I have two degrees in Ball State. Marilyn has all of her degrees from BallSstate. My two daughters have two degrees each from Ball State. My granddaughter graduated from Burris.

[GEOFF MEARNS]

Well, you might have to form your own family alumni association, given the number of degrees that you have. Roy, thank you again very much for joining us and wish you and Marilyn and all your family all the best. Thank you.

[ROY WEAVER]

Thank you. Same to you.