Your Unapologetic Career Podcast
Your Unapologetic Career Podcast
69 Coaching Client Spotlight: LaPrincess Brewer, M.D., M.P.H.
You can text us here with any comments, questions, or thoughts!
Dr. Brewer is a preventive cardiologist at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota and a health equity researcher focused on the development of community-based interventions to promote cardiovascular health, in underserved and minoritized racial and ethnic groups. Her work incorporates community-based participatory research approaches and innovative digital health solutions. She is the first African American woman cardiologist in her department (Whoot-Whoot!) - and an alumnae of our Get That Grant coaching program.
Listen in as we discuss her coaching journey and:
- The experience that led to her becoming a strong advocate of community-based participatory research
- How overwhelm and burnout led to her feeling unfulfilled despite doing work that she loves - and how coaching has helped restore the passion in her work
- What led to the shift in recognizing her value, and owning her feeling of self-worth
- The powerful questions she asks in order to structure her time for maximum efficiency
If you loved this convo, please go find LaPrincess on Twitter (@DrLaPrincess), IG (@alphaprincesa) and show her some love!
this is a sermon because I think some people are kind of stuck in the, like, I just happened to be here. I'm like, no, this is deliberate. Girl, you got nowhere by default. Whoever told you that lied to you. By default, you are not in the building. So it's like reclaiming that, that piece on behalf of the journey is how I think of it too. The journey was actually deliberate. Yes. And I think what happens when we become faculty sometimes is that that deliberateness starts to drift and drift further away as We get lost in the sea of the gold stars and you're supposed to do this and that. And it's a reclamation of that. Like, no, no, no, no, no. There was a specific reason and a specific goal that you came here. Let's get back to that. Hello, hello. You are listening to Your Unapologetic Career. Being a woman of color faculty in academic medicine who wants to make a real difference with your career can be tough. Listen, these systems are not built for us, but that doesn't mean we can't make them work for us. In each episode, I'll be taking a deep dive into one core growth strategy so you can gain confidence and effectiveness Thank you. Hello, so I get so many questions along the lines of, How can I work with you? You're changing my life and I want more of this. And if you fall into that category and you are a woman of color, faculty member in academic medicine, public health, or allied fields, then just keep listening. Listen, are you building the academic career you want or hard at work checking boxes on everyone else's to-do lists? A successful career doing the work you love doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your values, your family, or your joy. Stop trying to be everything to everybody and get to learning the strategies that will 3x your productivity, hone your passions into funded projects, and create the career you worked so hard to achieve. If you've been to every career development and professional development workshop that sounded great but didn't actually deal with the kind of institutional pressures you face, if you're working hard but somehow stuck in inefficiency, putting everyone else's priorities first, if you spent years trying training, and sacrificing to become academic faculty, and here you are still working nights and weekends on the projects you care most about, I'm here to tell you that you can walk away from this institutional mindset forever and take control of your career with clarity and strategy. Every day, I help women of color faculty of all career levels in academic medicine, like you, reframe and recreate their academic life so that they can channel their ideas, passions, and skills into grant funded work with institutional support and sustainability. And that is why this episode is brought to you by Get That Grant, our six month high performance coaching program for high achieving women of color faculty in academic medicine who are ready to reclaim career control and secure grant funding doing the work they love. In Get That Grant, we help you kick imposter syndrome to the curb for good. So you lead your career with clarity and confidence. You learn productivity and strategy skills for grants and papers to maximize your chances of success without wasting your time, abandoning your passion, or working yourself into the ground. We help you build the foundation for an amazing and fulfilling academic career, changing your life and the lives of everyone your work will touch. Yes, this future is possible for you and it's waiting on you to make the first step. If you are ready for career success without sacrifice, I encourage you to join our waitlist at chemidol.com backslash grant. After you join the waitlist, you'll be notified when the next Get That Grant cohort will be enrolling. Your application process will include an in-depth career foundations assessment, helping you identify the gaps in your foundation that are holding you back from enjoying the career you worked so hard to achieve. No more secret worrying that the career you want isn't really possible. This career assessment will show you exactly where you need to focus to level up your Hello, LaPrincess. Welcome to the show. So happy to have you. So happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So I know you, but why don't you tell our listeners your specialty, where you work, and what is the good work that you're doing in the world?
SPEAKER_01:So I'm a preventive cardiologist here at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, and I'm a And I'm also the first African-American woman cardiologist in my department. Girl. So I'm owning this because others have not owned that for me. Yes. And I'm also a health equity researcher and I'm focused on the development of community-based interventions to promote cardiovascular health in underserved and minoritized racial and ethnic groups. And I also incorporate community-based participatory research approaches and innovative digital health solutions into my programs as well. And I also have a special interest in the social determinants of health and exploring how they influence cardiovascular health for African-Americans in particular.
SPEAKER_00:So critical, such important work. How did you come to do that work? Preventative cardiology, CBPR, marrying the digital health piece of it, because it's both specific and impactful. And I'm curious, how would you answer that? How did you get there?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so it really stems from my upbringing in the African-American church and seeing so many of our church members who were like family to me dying prematurely from heart disease. And I knew from that point, I needed to make a difference because I wanted to see their grandkids to thrive. And, you know, I carry that with me throughout my medical training. And, you know, I said, I want to impact the disparities that are affecting my community. And what is the best place to go in the African-American community? What's the institutional backbone of our community? The black church. Go to the church. Exactly. You can say what you want to the church, but they have been there throughout all of our major movements. It continues.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Civil rights movement all the way back to its inception during times of slavery. It's been there. So, you know, that's one reason why I went back to the church. It was my upbringing. And then just really understanding the community. I knew that I needed to work with them to design my interventions. You know, I can't work in my own silo developing these interventions and then try to deploy them and then not be relevant. So this is one reason why I am a strong advocate, proponent of community-based participatory research, because it's so enlightening and rewarding at the same time. And the community is really invested in your success. So,
SPEAKER_00:you know, you preach in the
SPEAKER_01:choir.
SPEAKER_00:So, you know, I mean, you don't have to convince me, but I always find it amazing that that concept is so radical that if you want to help the health of a community, you might want to ask them how best it's going to go to help their, I mean, it's just, it's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. And yet it still exists as this kind of like, oh, you do that over there. How does that work? I don't know. You get those questions like, but how is it scientific? I'm doing big quotes. You guys can't see them, but it's always incredible to me because it, it would be logical. At least when I look at our society, I think like all the things that are illogical are usually because of racism. It would have been logical that we do this weird thing over here. And Anyway, I'm getting way off track. So I'm going to come back, bring it back to me. So I hear that. And I heard you also say that when you work with the community, the community also wants to see you win.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Outside of CBPR, I feel like people don't recognize that part of it. It's like, we got a whole other army, a whole other group of people rooting you on, which is no small thing. So the area that you have decided to research in, especially the methodology is not necessarily the most well-worn path. I think the thing about CBPR is it is really hard to just copy and pace. You really can't because you're working directly with the community. It can be an uphill battle to get funding. It can be an uphill battle to compete for these resources that are deemed to be scarce. And yet, LaPrincess, you have been very successful. When we met, I'm like, well, you're doing it all. Check, check, check. So what I'm curious if you would share with us is what was going on in your career when you started to consider coaching and what wasn't working when on the surface, it's like, well, you are successful in this thing that is quote unquote hard to do? The
SPEAKER_01:facade is real. So I guess when I first started coaching and I shared this with you in our first conversations, you know, I was extremely overwhelmed from a personal and work standpoint. And unfortunately, at that time, I had several family members that were ill and hospitalized throughout the pandemic in 2021. And that required a significant amount of my time for travel back and forth and, you know, caregiving responsibilities. And it was just extremely stressful. And all the while I was, you know, still leading and my first NIH and American Heart Association funded randomized controlled trial. All this madness was going on around me. And, you know, I just had so many curve balls thrown at me throughout the pandemic, including a total shutdown of my trial, no solid research team. of my own. And I was literally just trying to stay afloat. And I was sinking fast. I really was. And I knew that my life as it was then was not the struggle that I wanted for my life in academia. And I was just burned out, exhausted. I was just really disappointed with the lack of support as well that I had as a woman of color in this space. And I was that... evening and weekend warrior, work warrior, not exercise. Yes. Yeah. I immediately understood what you meant. Yeah. I was just not enjoying, you know, work as much and kind of going back to that CBPR. It was really my community partners that were really motivating me to push forward and CBPR and to continue in academia. But I knew that there had to be a better way. And as you know, I'm a very spiritual person and, you know, I call it on God for help. And he said, you know, I have a way. I have plans for you. And interestingly, around this time, you know, I had the blessing of hearing you speak at our annual Amos meeting, really highlighting your phenomenal New England Journal of Medicine article on the structural solutions for the rare sub rare. And I was just blown away. I was like, she gets it. She really gets it. She gets what I'm going through. And I knew that although it wasn't the exact same situation that you may have been going through or what led you to create this program, I was like, she really understands the struggle and she actually has solutions for me. She has a way that I can work better and smarter and not be exhausted and unfulfilled. So that's where I was then. I was in a very low place.
SPEAKER_00:You know, when you say the facade is real, I think it's incredible to me how much we are capable of, like how successful we are capable of being while nothing else is working, right? Like while the tank is empty, none of the support systems are in place the way they need to be. I mean, from the smallest thing, admin support to like the biggest thing, what's going on with your family, like all of that can be a mess. And yet I meet black women in academic medicine all the time where all this stuff is going on and they run a randomized trial. I'm like, what in the world? Like, And so it is one, I mean, obvious, passionate about changing that because we deserve to also be happy and joyful and supported in this amazing work that we've decided to do. It's like, that should not be synonymous with suffering. So there's that part of it is just like, we deserve to be happy in this work. And I want to support that. But also I sit there and I'm like, do you know what you're capable of? If you're able to do this nights, weekends burn out, like what is possible when you're well? Oh my God. gosh. And then that's where like the excitement comes in, right? It's like the healing, but also the potential. It's like the both. I can tell you like motivates me, but yeah, that, like you said, it's real what we are able to do, despite the fact that we are suffering inside in many ways. Yes. So you did decide to join, get that grant. So I'm curious if you could share with us something that shifted for you and doing the program, something that has really made a difference in terms of where you started, like you said, kind of overwhelmed and lost. and really only held afloat by your community members?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. So there were several points, you know, throughout the program where I could sense my own shift and change in mindset. But I think one that really stands out is making the decision to apply for an R01. That was a major shift for me because, you know, I have been putting it off for well over a year. And honestly, it was because I lacked the confidence to lead this huge undertaking. You know, I didn't know where to start. And I really did not honestly have anyone pushing me to do it, which is really interesting. That's interesting. I'm in academia and no one said, oh, you should do your R1, you know, this year. But I said, no, I think I should do it this year. Let's do it simultaneously alongside this program. And, you know, that was really a key turning point for me during my experience. And, you know, I had to keep telling myself you can do this, take it one step at a time. And, you know, I started my own role as, as you always state, you know, CEO, you know, PI on my team and really started to recognize that I'm a part of a cadre of physician scientists at my institution and elsewhere. I'm claiming this. I'm a physician scientist and I can apply for this R01 just like anyone else. And, you know, no one's really going to truly own that for you You have to own it yourself. And that's something that was a key turning point for me. Like no one's telling me to apply for this. You have to do this.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:In the end, you're responsible for this. And I also had a shift in recognizing my own value and all that I have to offer, not only to my team and institution, but really to myself and my own goals in academia. And I had truly lost this sense of, I guess, self-worth during the pandemic Honestly, and your program, you know, really helped me to reclaim this. I feel like I'm worthy to apply for an R1.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Well, you know, I know you're worthy. What was one of the symptoms of you having lost that owning your own, that feeling of self-worth? Like how did that show up during that time before the program?
SPEAKER_01:I guess I really had no direction. It was just like, okay, I can continue just writing these papers and just trying to publish and, you know, just keep going. I was like, where am I going with
SPEAKER_00:this? Where am I? Yeah. Just like kind of carry. Okay. Do this paper now. Okay. Now somebody had this request. Okay. I guess I'll do that. I guess I'll do that. That kind of thing. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:No direction. I'm like, wait a minute, but what's my plan? Right. What do I want to do? What ultimately do I need to build and have in place for sustainability and also to support my team, my mentees? What's my long-term goal? But I didn't have any of that. That was my major. your symptoms. It's like, okay, so what do you have in your plan? And like, what are you
SPEAKER_00:doing? Yeah. Okay. Thank you for sharing. That makes sense because it's like, when you don't have that tangible sense that I'm very valuable here, like we got things to do, we got plans, then you don't have that feeling of responsibility then of like, what are we doing with all this talent? Exactly. We got to make deliberate decisions then about what we're capable of. And so it makes sense that it goes hand in hand, you know, and that's missing. Then it's like, well, I'll just do whatever's in the end box and then like it just doesn't last it's just even when you're doing work you love and I think that's why I really wanted to speak with you because it's like you were already so dialed in to the work that you knew you wanted to do and yet that's still only one aspect right of the whole package to be able to do the work in a wholesome way right in a way that feels like good to the soul really yes yes so what do you have now that you didn't have I feel like we kind of answered this but maybe you can expound what do you have now that you didn't have before embarking on coaching, would you say?
SPEAKER_01:So I would say I'm more structured with my time and I'm extremely protective of it. I guess it's just that I don't allow others to waste my time either, but I think it's also, it's a two-way street. So I'm very clear about my expectations up front, but I'm also mindful of theirs too. I don't want to waste their time either. So I'm like, what are we doing? Why do you want me to be a part of this? What's my role? What's your role? What are you expecting from me? So that has truly been a game changer for me, like having that structured time and really having a clear picture of what I'm contributing to what I'm saying yes to.
SPEAKER_00:yes what does the yes mean and is it exciting to me yes I mean just even that it's like not the shoulds but like I'm excited about this yes is such a powerful question
SPEAKER_01:exactly and how is it aligned with my purpose mantra
SPEAKER_00:yep
SPEAKER_01:and is it going to give me also a sense of peace that I said yes like if I don't feel settled in it you
SPEAKER_00:said a word yeah yes
SPEAKER_01:then I don't Don't say yes. I say yes in my head. I'm like, well, are you settled with that before you send that email?
SPEAKER_00:This is a sermon because we'll say yes in order to resolve the temporary anxiety of not having answered only to buy a whole bunch more anxiety because now you've committed to something you don't want to do. So even that ability to step back in that moment and be like, wait a minute, on the other side of the yes, is there peace? stress is so important. And I hear that, but it all does come back to where we started with that value because the piece of what, right. The piece of myself of what I know I'm capable of, right. Like going back to like what I realize is possible for me, that piece becomes so much more valuable than just the absence of anything. I think some people are kind of stuck in the, like, I just happened to be here. I'm like, no, like, no, this is deliberate girl. You got nowhere by default on whoever told you that lied to you. By default, you are not in the building. So it's like reclaiming that piece on behalf of the journey is how I think of it too. The journey was actually deliberate. And I think what happens when we become faculty sometimes is that that deliberateness starts to drift and drift further away as we get lost in the sea of the gold stars and you're supposed to do this and that. And it's like, it's a reclamation of that. Like, no, no, no, no, no. There was a specific reason and a specific goal that you came Let's get back to that.
SPEAKER_01:And I would say too, when I say yes, I mean, I'm just thinking of just some of the things that I've said yes to over the past few months that involve being a part of writing groups. I just have more of a clear sense of purpose. What I contribute is more like well-rounded because I know that, okay, they have me here because I am the expert in X. So let me tell them why I'm here and why I matter to this piece and and what I'm going to bring. So this is why it's really, really important for you to think about why you're saying yes.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, my church fan. All the things. I just will say yes to the rest of the episode. I won't say anything else. But I mean, that is it. Okay. We've touched on a couple of things. One of the things is that you protect your peace. You own your value. All of a sudden, you start to protect your peace. All of a sudden, those decisions, you can see the consequences of them because you see what's available to you when you are fully in yourself, working at your best. So there's that. But then, like you said, it also changes how you show up. So you now, because you know what you bring, you're not going to stand in the corner and be like, well, I guess I'll just wait to see if somebody really wants my opinion. Cause I don't belong here. Right. I also think of it as like, I will bring my best self because I have been discerning in other things. It means that if you get my yes, and I show, we show up and we're at the set, like, you're going to get my best. Cause I'm already going to know this is why I'm here. This is what I can do. contribute. I love that. And so you actually end up enhancing your value. Yes. And then that's that positive feedback loop. Cause now you're like, I know I was good. I know I was that good. So it just continued. You're like, yeah, let's go for the R01. Yeah, let's go. Right. And like, that's the loop that we all want to be on the positive feedback loop. And I think that's what you're experiencing, but it's just a totally different experience than willpower. It's a totally different experience than like, I just have to get through these check marks and then somehow it will be better. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. She show up differently and better and it makes it all worthwhile.
SPEAKER_00:And clear. I love it for you. I love it. Okay. So what advice would you give a Black woman, faculty member like you, who is considering coaching or she just signed up for Get That Grand? She's like, I want to get the most out of this. Like, what do I do to get free like you?
SPEAKER_01:Tell me what to do. So, you know, Thinking about my own experience and why I decided to take this step, I would say don't suffer in silence. There is a better way to thrive in academia. You don't have to conform to what academia thinks you should be doing within this complex system. You really can carve out and shape your own path and still enjoy this journey. So, you know, that's the advice I give. Like, just take that step, you know, have to do this alone you have a community of cheerleaders behind you to understand your struggle and there's a better way and we'll get through this
SPEAKER_00:yes there is and we deserve a better way I think that I don't know I think I said it already but with all this beautiful these ideas all of this willingness to work so hard oh my gosh have you ever met a group of people more willing to work so hard to go against the grain to hit the challenges like you're willing to do this you have these great ideas you have this passion you deserve to not suffer in it you know to actually feel all of that value and actually be proud but also well and you know have slept and all those things like all of that stuff like should go along with all of this so thank you for spreading that because I know somebody needed to hear it your success does not have to equal suffering and your impact doesn't have to mean that you sacrifice your own self and And we get to be here just like everybody else does. You know, like if academia is the place you want to be, you get to be here. Exactly. So anything else you want to share with us, LaPrincess?
SPEAKER_01:I just have really, really enjoyed this program. It's been such a blessing. And I'm just so excited about what's next for me in academia with the skills and the tools that I have now after the program. How am I going to use this to further my career and others. So I'm really looking forward to mentoring others and really working alongside my community partners towards the next level of my career. Yes,
SPEAKER_00:I love it. I mean, it just came up. I was like, okay, AHA president. I mean, you let us know when you're ready. You're like, when you're ready, we're ready, right? Can I get an amen from everybody? When the princess
SPEAKER_01:is ready, we are ready. Oh my gosh. See, this is why I love the program. Okay,
SPEAKER_00:right? Confidence. Yes. That's important. And tools though. I tell people it's like all of this, which is not small because we need to belong to a place, a positive place, a place where you get recharged, but also the tools to protect your time. Like you said, like then, so then you can go through your week and stay in that space, all this stuff. Anyway, the princess, thank you so much for joining us. I mean, obviously it's a pleasure. I love working with you. I can't wait to see what's coming next either. And I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful day. And you as well. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Take care.
SPEAKER_01:Bye. Bye.
SPEAKER_00:Hello, I'm coming through to remind you that we are starting a listener letter segment on the Your Unapologetic Career podcast. Write in with questions that you have. You can ask me anything. I will decide what I want to answer. You can bring forth challenging situations or suggest topics you might want to hear more about. To do that, you can reach me at podcast at kdollcoach.com. That's podcast at K-D-O-L-L-C-O-N with your questions. Please note if you'd like to be anonymous and I will always do my best to keep you so excited to hear from y'all. Bye.