109 Coaching Client Spotlight: Leslie Coker Appiah, M.D.

Dr. Leslie Appiah is a Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology and Chief of the Division of Academic Specialists in Obstetrics and Gynecology at The University of Colorado School of Medicine and Children’s Hospital Colorado. She is a fellowship-trained pediatric and adolescent gynecologist and Director of the Fertility Preservation and Reproductive Late Effects program at the Comprehensive Cancer Center and Center for Cancer and Blood Disorders. 

Dr. Appiah’s clinical and research interests include team science and outcomes research in pediatric, adolescent, and young adult fertility preservation, reproductive late effects in cancer survivorship, and hormone replacement therapy in the medically complex patient. She is passionate about improving the health of girls and women so that they may pursue life, career, and education unencumbered by reproductive health concerns. She is also an alumnus of our Get That Grant® coaching program!

Listen in as we discuss her coaching journey and: 

• How to say NO with pleasure, peace, and confidence as a leader with many varying responsibilities
• How keying into her energy balance has improved her productivity and leadership ability
•  How she *finally* shifted away from the strategy she learned in every other coaching experience and found greater balance AND impact
• Her advice to mid and senior-level academics thinking about coaching and want to experience a similar transformation as she did 

 Loved this convo? Please go find Dr. Appiah and show her some love on Twitter @DrLeslieAppiah and Instagram @drleslieappiah

If you'd like to learn more foundational career navigation concepts for women of color in academic medicine and public health, sign up for our KD Coaching Foundations Series: www.kemidoll.com/foundations.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

I wasn't keyed into my energy balance. And because of my personality, I have sometimes beat myself up because I wonder, well, why can't I do it this way, the way that they're doing it? And they see me so on top of it and they can go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I would beat myself up about that because I thought that's not the way a leader behaves. That's not the way a successful person behaves. A successful person always does it whether they want to do it or not. They do it with excellence, period, right? And what you taught me was like, when are you at your best to be able to do the work? And so going through our calendar, going through our week, I know that I'm at the best in the morning for the first half of the week, right? Yep. And so that's when I block my time, I get my work done. And then later on in the week, when I'm not as energetic and productive, I'm okay with that. And guess what? I can do it faster. I can do it better during this time. And I save myself the energy and I'm a happy person. Exactly. Okay. Once again, listeners once again, working

SPEAKER_01: 1:02

smarter, not harder. Hello, hello. You are listening to Your Unapologetic Career. Being a woman of color faculty in academic medicine who wants to make a real difference with your career can be tough. Listen, these systems are not built for us, but that doesn't mean we can't make them work for us. In each episode, I'll be taking a deep dive into one core growth strategy so you can gain confidence and effectiveness I'll see you next time. Thank you. So the truth is I get messages all the time from people who are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is too good. I definitely want to do more. How can I work with you? Like, where is the front door? And so if that's you and you're a woman of color faculty in academic medicine or public health, just keep listening. The question is, are you building the academic career you want or hard at work checking boxes on everyone else's to-do list? A successful career doing the work that you love doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your values, your family, or your joy. Stop trying to be everything to everybody and get to learning the strategies that will 3x your productivity, hone your passions into grant-funded projects, and create the career you worked so hard to achieve. If you have been to every career development or professional development workshop that sounded great but didn't actually deal with the kind of institutional pressures you face, if you are working hard Thank you so much. like you reframe and recreate their academic life so that they can channel their ideas, passions, and skills into grant-funded work with institutional support. And that is why this episode is brought to you by Get That Grant, our six-month comprehensive high-performance coaching program for high-achieving women of color faculty in academic medicine and public health who are ready to reclaim career control and secure grant funding doing the work they love. In Get That Grant, we help you kick imposter syndrome to the curb for good so you lead your career with clarity and confidence. We help you learn productivity and strategy skills for grants and papers to maximize your chances of success without wasting your time, abandoning your passion, or working yourself into the ground. We help you build the foundation for an amazing and fulfilling academic career, changing your life and the lives of everyone your work will touch. Yes, this future is possible for you, and it's waiting on you to take the first step. If you are ready for career success without sacrifice, without suffering, then I encourage you to join our waitlist at chemidoll.com backslash grant. After you join the waitlist, you will be notified when the next Get That Grant cohort will be enrolling. Your application process will include an in-depth career foundations assessment, helping you identify to sign up. See you soon. Hi, Leslie. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02: 5:46

Hi, Kemi. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01: 5:50

Absolutely. I'm excited too. So I know you, but the folks don't. So can you please let us know who you are, where you are, and what is the good work that you do in the world?

SPEAKER_02: 6:00

Absolutely. So I am a board certified OBGYN and fellowship trained pediatric and adolescent gynecologist with expertise in fertility preservation and reproductive lay effects for patients with cancer diagnoses. I am the Division Chief of Academic Specialists in Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Colorado and the Medical Director of the Fertility Preservation Program. And the good work that I'm doing, Kemi, is I am here to improve reproductive health care delivery for girls and women with marginalized reproductive health conditions so that they may live life fully and unaccompanied I'm also here to help women in academic medicine lead more fulfilling medical careers.

SPEAKER_01: 6:53

Leslie, was that your purpose mantra? That

SPEAKER_02: 6:55

was my purpose mantra. I sounded like it. I use that

SPEAKER_01: 6:59

everywhere. Oh, I love it. So for you all listening, that was the definition of say it with your chest. So you do all the things, you do all the things. And I'm just pulling out, in addition to your significant clinical specialization within OBGYN, within the gynecologic care world, and then again about cancer and fertility. I mean, there's like multiple layers there of a deliberate desire to focus So in addition to that, you also are a leader administratively because you're a division chief. And then you're also a medical director. So talk about all the hats. Talk about all the hats. So I got to ask you, I've told you this before when we've just chatted one-on-one, but as a Black woman, you do not get where you are right now. You do not get there by accident. You have to be so thoughtful and so so deliberate about what you're choosing to do and why to get to where you are, a place of clearly claimed expertise in terms of I've done the work, I did the training, I have all the experience here, in addition to being able to both lead administratively and lead from a clinical perspective. So in that context, I want to understand what was not working for you in your career when you decided to consider that are coaching with us and doing Get That Grant.

SPEAKER_02: 8:27

Absolutely. I want your audience to know that, you know, applying for this program was... I do a lot of self-work. So that part wasn't an issue. Like saying this is something that could benefit me. It was very easy for me to hear your podcast and know like I needed to do this, right? I have done a lot of leadership programs because I enjoy doing them. I like growing. I have been a former fellow for the ELAM, Active Leadership and Active Medicine. I've done all the AAMC programs. And what those programs did for me is they taught me how to lead, achieve, but work harder to accomplish more, right? So I got from that working harder, do more to accomplish more. And so I had done the leadership thing. I'd done the program building thing, but I really wanted to be a researcher, right? Like I wanted to advance the field. And so your program, I felt was going to help me to take all this achievement and focus it towards being a researcher. What I didn't know is how we were going to do that. And I'm so pleased by the process because I'm a changed person because of it.

SPEAKER_01: 9:44

Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. There's too much here, Lester. There's too much here. Okay. So this is what I heard you say. One, that you're like me. You're like, I'm a personal development girl. Like I'm gonna listen to the podcast. I'm gonna read the books. I want to be the best version of myself. I mean, tell me if there's anything I say that doesn't land, but it's like, I didn't come here, right? To waste any of this good potential. I'm here to like have the full life that I can, that I'm capable of. Is that right? So I heard that part loud and clear. So with that orientation, the shift of like, oh, let me go do something to better myself. That really wasn't a big deal for you. You do that all the time. And so I think that's why, so this is my first question. I have like three. I think that's why, even though in terms of external markers, somebody who is a division chief, who's like has all already the clinical lead, you know, may listen to the podcast or maybe like, oh, that's for early career people. That was like never even a thing for you because you're just oriented towards personal growth and development. Is that right? Would that be accurate? Yes. Yes. Okay. But then when I heard you say is in a lot of your prior experiences, which were no doubt positive, which no doubt helped you get to where you are. Part of what you learned was to have more, you must do more. Yes. So the equation of this big life that you want and all these things is always going to equal more work, more work, more work, more work. So you were ready for more because you're like, okay, so now I'm going to go do this research thing. Kemi's going to give me more things to do, more work. I'm capable of it. And that's So now in that setting, tell us what was surprising about Get Back Grant. Tell us what actually happened.

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

Absolutely. And I would say to the listeners, you know, to your point, when you market your program, you discuss early career, right? Mid-career. And I'm a full professor. Like on paper, I'm done, right? And you put me through the process of, do you really know what you are getting into, Leslie? Like, are you sure this is what you need? And I kept saying, this is what I need. This is what I need. And I remember you were saying, you've done these things. Are you sure? And I really felt that this program was necessary, even though I was more senior, even though I'm a professor. What the program taught me is that it is more important that you define your value. And in doing that, you will realize or I realize that I don't need to do more work. I need to do more of what my value brings, right? I need to focus my energies on the thing that only I can do or the thing that I am most passionate about because then I can do that and not that I'm doing more of that but the things I'm doing are related to that and that is what this taught me I knew I had I knew that what I did was special I knew that it was important but in terms of it really defining how I approached my career this was really helpful for me.

SPEAKER_01: 12:45

Okay. So I love this because I think what you're doing is giving more nuance and specificity to a very like pithy phrase that I use, which is like work smarter, not harder, right? People say that, but I know people are like, well, what the hell does that mean? What does that mean? And I think what you're doing is you're giving some nuance to that, which is that what you were able to experience is not necessarily having to add an additional thing. I do additional work, additional steps, additional, whatever, but re organizing my existing talents in an efficient way to get more out of them in a way that is beneficial to me. Is that, did I put it correctly?

SPEAKER_02: 13:26

Absolutely. That's it right there because, you know, I've developed a niche area very early. Like I knew this passionate about right out of fellowship. And so this is what I have been doing for my career, but still believing that I still had to do all of these other things to show my worth and my value. And that became very salient when I went up for professor. A mentor said to me, I said, well, you know, I can't check all the boxes. I'm checking a lot of them, not all of them. And she said to me, Leslie, you have value and you need to describe what you have done in terms of value and not just this plethora of many different things. Things, yes. And when she said that, I said, okay, well, I guess I'm going to craft this story to make it seem like this is what it but but program has shown me that no your value is what is most important not doing so many things right and it's like when children are applying to college the college doesn't care if you've done all these things right they want to see that what you did has value and impact and that is what is important to institutions and and for yourself

SPEAKER_01: 14:39

yes okay and here's the other thing going back to I'm oriented towards a big life I'm oriented towards and when I say big life what I mean is like getting the most out of my life the most out of myself my highest potential is it changes what that end point is because if your equation is if I want more I have to do more you have a clear stopping point right because like you gotta sleep girl you gotta eat so even so you're gonna burn so one you're gonna burn out two even if you don't burn out there are only so many hours in the day etc so if you're just adding if that I'm just gonna add add add you're gonna hit a hit a a ceiling. And I think what happens, I think what happens to people like you pre GTG, who was already successful, already incredibly capable already, like all of those things is that what happens is that, that you do hit that limit. Cause you're like, okay, I have to sleep. Like I have to do all these other things, right? You hit that limit. And then there's a part of you that is mad. Yes. It's frustrating. Cause you know, you can do more. Right. So, so, and people are like, what's wrong with you? Like you can't do more or less Like you already only sleep in four hours a night, like all this stuff. And you're like, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying that there's more hours in the day. I'm saying inside myself, I can feel that I am capable of more. So this transition you're talking about is radical because now when you've shifted the equation and it's like, no, but we can rearrange this. You can have strategy around leveraging your value and your talents. Then there's no limit now. There's no limit now.

SPEAKER_02: 16:10

Now there's no limit. And what GTT also taught me through you is is that I can say no with pleasure. I can say no confidently. I can say no peacefully because I know that those things are not adding to my purpose. I stay on my purpose, right? Yes. My purpose. And so there's no point in me doing it because then I can't do the thing that I need to do that only I am interested in doing. And then I'm mad. Like you said, I'm upset because I really want to be doing this thing, but I'm doing this over here. And so, it has been much easier to say no and feel okay with it. And the beautiful thing is opportunities never stop coming. Tell them again. Leslie, say it again. Because they don't believe me when I say it. They never stop coming. Ever, ever, ever. Because we're in a space where there is a need, right? There is work to be done, right? So opportunities can't stop coming because medicine has to continue. Science has to continue. There will always be opportunity. And we are so trapped in this, you If I say no, they'll never ask me again. I've said no three times. And then three times more this year, people are asking me to do more. No one's upset, right? No one's offended. They'll go to the next person, right? That's the other thing. Like there's somebody else who they will go to and ask. And so staying in my purpose has allowed me to say no to a lot of things and to say no with peace. I've never been sad about saying no. I've been sad many times about saying yes.

SPEAKER_01: 17:43

But I'm not saying no. Can we have an LNG and LNG for all the mistaken yeses? All of this, all of this is the case. Obviously, I agree. What I will say is that the other thing about it is when you come to a place where you can say no peacefully and you can say no with pleasure, one, you are going to get more work done because you're, you are spending less energy on that no. That's right. So you're not drained. People talk about how well I spent 35 minutes composing the no emails I'm glad that I did send it, but now I'm drained. Now I don't have anything left for my own work. It's like, okay, the first step is that you said, no, the second step is that it's pleasure. The second step is you're like, yes, and moving on. So I think that's one thing just to comment on. And it goes back to what we were saying before, which is that like, that's like a very small example of how your shift in perspective and you knowing that you're doing something differently gives you more energy and therefore time. And like, that's like a small way how you're literally more productive, not just because you said no, but because it took you five seconds. It didn't take you all week. And that changed what you got, what you were able to do that week, right? Because you weren't constantly whatever. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 18:58

And you went through that practice with us about how to say no, right? Yes. Can't do this. Happy to, you know, reconsider or here's a name of somebody who might be better. And that was very helpful.

SPEAKER_01: 19:10

Yes. And here's the second thing, Leslie, is that I just so wish that every, if we could all be so much more keyed in. So you were keyed in very early. I want to give you props for that because most people are in a copy paste world. They're just, they think that what they're supposed to do is to try to do what everybody else is doing, but you were keyed in early. Like, no, I'm going to have a niche. Like this is me right here. Unique. Right. But the more that people are able to really clarify what that thing is that they love, what they want to do, like all of those things and the elements of it, right. Is that the more that we're going to get people matched with the appropriate opportunities. It's like, I'm saying no, cause this isn't my, this isn't my thing. I'm not lit up by this, but I know there's some other girl who you're going to make her with this offer. So that's the other thing is that we stop taking up space where we don't need to be. You don't need to be there. And I, so I also love it too, because that's part of the pleasure for me is like, oh, this is great. Cause now you can go give somebody this to somebody who really needs and wants to do it and not me.

SPEAKER_02: 20:11

Yes, absolutely. And you talk about being keyed in and So you're right. I was very keyed into that. What I wasn't keyed into, and this is one of the modules you taught us, the micro environment, right? Yes. In our micro environment, right? I wasn't keyed into my energy balance. And that was something that I had not ever really paid attention to. I don't think I really heard the term. I mean, I've heard it in other ways, right? But it was like energy balance. And I have, because of my personality, I have sometimes beat myself up because I wonder, well, why can't I do it this way, the way that they're doing it? And they see me so on top of it and they can go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And when I don't want to do something, I don't want to do it. And chances are, it's not going to get done. Like that is

SPEAKER_03: 20:58

my

SPEAKER_02: 20:58

personality, right? And I would beat myself up about that because I thought that's not the way a leader behaves. That's not the way a successful person behaves. A successful person always does it, whether they want to do it or not. They do it with excellence, period, right? And what you taught me was It's like, when are you at your best to be able to do the work? And so going through our calendar, going through our week, I know that I'm at the best in the morning for the first half of the week, right? Yep. And so that's when I block my time. I get my work done. And then later on in the week, when I'm not as energetic and productive, I'm okay with that. Exactly. Because I don't want me trying to do that because it's not going to work. It's not going to work anyway. So you might as well not do it. And that has been the best. I'm like, it's not going to work anyway, Leslie. So stop trying to do that and do it when you can. And guess what? I can do it faster. I can do it better during this time. And I save myself the energy and I'm a happy person and I'm not, okay. No doubt it's self-critical.

SPEAKER_01: 21:58

Exactly. Okay. Once again, listeners, once again, working smarter, not harder once again. So you didn't say, oh, well, now that I'm going to do this thing over here, do you get that grant? I'm going to add four more work sessions to my week. No, what happened is we cut back less because it doesn't make any sense and it bleeds over right so now if you've had a terrible week also I was just thinking like if you're feeling like I have to do it like everybody else I've got to go all the way hard all week and you're not understanding that people if they're thinking about it they make their schedules work for them it doesn't mean it works for you right but that means that you're also ending every week dejected because if you're telling me well the back half of my week is where it's like listen it's a wrap yeah I'm not going to do this like higher order thinking that means if you haven't tuned into that if you haven't really listened to yourself and taken that time to observe how you work you're setting yourself up for every single Friday feeling bad and that is that's your literal career experience now so now the way that you feel about your career is that you are in a constant impossible goal that you never feel great at the end of the week you never and I'm telling people don't you think that matters over the long term don't you think that changes what you go after don't you think that changes how you show up don't you think that changes what you tell other people people below you that's going to change how you interact with people, what you tell them is possible if every Friday you set yourself up to be disappointed. Now, the contrast. Every week, you're like, listen, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday are mine. I got what I wanted to get done. Now people come and find me at the end of the week and you're happy because you filled your own cup, right? So that's the other thing I was going to ask you. How does it impact your leadership ability when you know that you've filled your own cup first?

SPEAKER_02: 23:40

Absolutely. So it allows me to allow my faculty to be flexible, right? Like it's really important now that we have flex time. Now we have some things we have to do. Like you have to be in clinic for four hours, four hours. That's clinic. Like don't have a meeting.

SPEAKER_01: 23:57

Y'all don't come back to Leslie and be like, well, I would like to have two 30 minute clinic sessions.

SPEAKER_02: 24:05

That is not where the flexibility is. Right. But if you know that you need to have clinic towards the end of the week, like let's work through that. If your academic time needs to be at a certain time let's work through that so it allows me to be more flexible and allows me to also be more forgiving of different styles right I know my style is different so I can't expect people to all be a certain way and I have to meet people where they are right I feel like I met myself where I am through this process and yes people where they are and you know like it was really damaging to my self-esteem because to be so successful but feel like I struggled in certain ways like own personality, right? That's why people quit. They're like, even though I'm successful, I'm out because I don't feel good about myself because I feel like it's too hard for me to be successful. And accepting who I am as I am has been the best part of this journey for me.

SPEAKER_01: 25:02

Leslie is preaching. Listen to this. All you people who are like, how do we retain our faculty? How do we figure out how to help people be happy, et cetera? This is not all of it, but understand Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. during my best times you can't touch me right like you have that sense it's like you listen you don't know what it looks like like you put me you will put me in my optimized time doing the work that I love I can be so productive it does not make sense I know I've experienced this people are like how did you write this last week and I'm like because I know how I work I wasn't up all night I didn't do it at all times the work to me is setting up my success right like how does my week go I mean I don't want to go off but like you see what I mean like I'm I think that that also creates a fundamental change because when you trust yourself now, again, you've changed what's possible. Now you will not do some of the things that people are like, well, how do I stop saying yes when I mean no, or how do I stop doing this? I'm like, well, actually it starts with actually trusting that when you want to work, you will. Yep. Because if you know that, then you don't have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_02: 26:37

And that was one of the things I took down as notes for this, that, you know, I want to do research. I want to be grant funded, but I I didn't really trust myself. I cannot go through this program and that program. And what you taught us in this program is that we have everything we need inside of us, right? We just need to structure things around, rely on ourselves. We don't always have to have a mentor pull us through something like this is my idea. I'm a smart person. Yes. Capable of bringing this idea forth using all of the resources that are available to me. And so I learned that I can trust myself and I wrote in my notes that like I have superpowers like the things that I can get done at the beginning of the week a lot of people can't do right because of the way my brain works and the way you know my brain works in ways that I sometimes have felt criticized right but it's a superpower and I can do so much more during that time that other people could do in three days and so I learned to trust myself look back at my history what have I accomplished I could have accomplished it accidentally. The record is too long. The record of achievement is too long. Girl, the facts are too long. Are we going to be evidence-based or not? The facts are too long. The history is too long for it to have been accidental. Clearly, I can do it. Trust in that. Trust in that. I learned that. I trust myself. I can do it. I've gotten grant funding, National Academy of Medicine Catalyst Award, and going for the big R01 in the sky. That's the goal. right and the big yeah that's the goal I feel totally confident I can achieve that totally whereas before I didn't

SPEAKER_01: 28:21

yes and this is why I loved working with you I'm being explicit here I want other people who are at your level I'm a division director I'm whatever I want them to hear this because here's the thing you were so successful before working inefficiently you got this far adding things every time adding more doing more things doing more things just think like you that That's what's so amazing to me about the mid and senior career folks. It's like, look what you've been able to do under duress. Look what you've been able to do, like, not ideally, right? Can you imagine what you're capable of if we actually reorganize both internally and externally how you do this? Like, that's what's fun to me is that, like, you just take off. Like, we all have to step back because y'all have superpowers. It's so hard to get to where you are for as long as you've been going, be in the game, still successful without any of these tools. So to me, it's like the potential is so fun. And I think you're a great example of that, of like you reorganize and then you just keep blowing your own mind. Like, wow, I am really like, like you said, that confidence, like, oh, I know what I'm doing. I can do this.

SPEAKER_02: 29:31

I can do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:33

And I think, oh, go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02: 29:35

And I was going to say, I wanted to touch on the self-care work module that you did. Yes. That is life changing. You said we cannot count on vacation to be the only way that we get restored, right? I think that was in one of your podcasts, right? You go on vacations every three months, right? We can't wait for that because when we come back, we're coming back to the same madness as before. So we have to take care of ourselves all day long from morning to night. And that's where part of that understanding your energy balance comes from. But then also you said something in a podcast and I'm like, that is so simple, yet it is so groundbreaking. Like in between patients, I don't have to be trying to save the world. world in between patients. I don't have to, and then go check my email and then answer this. I can see the patient, finish the note and sit still and be still and wait for the next patient to come. Right. So by the end of my clinic, I'm not exhausted because I've seen 12 patients or 10 patients or eight, but I've also, you know, handled all the division business for the morning. Like it's not necessary. It's not necessary.

SPEAKER_01: 30:41

Y'all listen to a leader. Cause you know, I know some Sometimes they believe me. Sometimes they don't, but it really isn't. It's like, it's one of those things where it's like, you just don't have to step out on faith. Cause I know that you think that you're like, I'm getting all this done in between patients. I'm returning this. I'm doing this. I'm getting all this done. And I'm like, you are exhausting yourself. You're being super inefficient. If you want to go to the evidence, all the neuroscience already tells us this is a terrible way to work to task shift. Like that doesn't make any sense. You're like, or people who are just like chit chat and doing all this stuff. And I'm like, you are just, I can just, I'm just watching your energy level decrease, decrease, decrease. And now you've got 10 notes to write. And now

SPEAKER_02: 31:16

what? You have 10 notes to write and you're angry. And you're like, academic medicine is a problem, right? Like people, we like leave academic medicine in droves and I don't want people to leave academic medicine. Like we need women. We agree. I know, I agree. Women of color. We can't all go and be in private practice and, you know, be brand consultants. Like, but we do it to ourselves.

SPEAKER_01: 31:41

Yeah. I mean, well, what I would say is that the culture is set up very poorly, right? The culture, I think it's an exploitive culture at its baseline. This is not about any individual person. And what I mean by that is that there isn't a structure to give people the tools that they would actually need to use in order to set up their balanced career. So it's like they come into their career, we give them none of the tools that they would need to actually set up balance. And then when they get out of balance, we go, oh, maybe you should go on vacation. What?

UNKNOWN: 32:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 32:09

Or maybe this isn't for you. Maybe you picked

SPEAKER_01: 32:11

the wrong career. Maybe you just can't handle it. Maybe you just can't. cut it after all. Yes. Somebody who, again, especially black women, like statistically, you shouldn't even be here. Like we are in the 1.2, 2.2%. Like after all that, you're going to take that person and be like, oh, maybe you just can't cut it. Meanwhile, you got mediocrity just abounding, right? Like all over the place. It's like, I am sorry, but I refuse to believe that you could somehow be in like the 3%, the 4%. We'll even go, I don't care. The 10%, you could somehow be in that small group that made it all the way here. And yet you're still not good enough. I think we got like 90% of the people in the majority with all levels of capacity who can handle it here. Absolutely not. There's no way. We can just keep doing this forever. So let me get back to this. So you already mentioned so many things about, you mentioned so many shifts already and like things that you, that you have now that you didn't have before. You talked about our concept of self-care at work, which as you know, I do feel very strongly about. I would just say that it like on the micro level, it's about energy, right? Because it's like, can we please not normalize, you know, the exhaustion at the end of the Friday or like just being empty and angry and done at the end of every day. But even if we step back, can we also normalize not just working for vacation? Like people would like work three months, go on vacation and then just start the countdown again. Like the only way I can make it is because I know I get to leave again. I'm like, okay, let's just, these are jobs we

SPEAKER_02: 33:42

worked for.

SPEAKER_01: 33:43

This is a career we really tried hard to get to. And now we're counting down the days until that seven day vacation is not going to fix that problem. So first, I just want to say, like, I want to give you the opportunity. Is there anything else that you wanted to touch on or share that you have now that you didn't have before embarking on coaching before we get to the end?

SPEAKER_02: 34:02

No, I think agency, knowing that as a division chief, I had a lot of I have a lot of autonomy. So I already had autonomy. Right. But I think agency in fashioning my day, week, mindset. towards value and

SPEAKER_03: 34:21

not

SPEAKER_02: 34:21

doing more. And, you know, like people who know me, they're like, Leslie, you do too much. You do so much. And they're right. It's too much. Right. And, and I've done that and I'm now shifting towards note. What, what brings me value and, or what kind of, what work can I be doing through my value is what I should say. Yes. So agency confidence that I can do it. I can write that grant. I don't, my chair doesn't have to read every line of the grant. Poor lady. I mean, my, my chair, I'm gonna tell you, she has, suffered reading through all these grants I didn't feel that I could do it on my own right yeah and now I can I can do it on my own she doesn't have to walk me through the process step by step she doesn't have to do

SPEAKER_01: 35:01

that yes okay I remember something else I wanted to say about this grant thing because it was in the middle of too many gems you were dropping so one yes we do talk about you have everything you need you can get this done one I always remember what the the forever flotus Michelle Obama says that's like I've been in the room with the smartest you know the the worldly leaders, the most powerful rooms in the world. And let me tell you something. They're not that smart. This is what I want people to understand is like, there's this feeling like, well, I'm just not smart enough to do the real research though. I'm just not smart enough to really do this. And I'm like, I don't know who convinced you that the people who are quote unquote doing the real research are much smarter than you. They have access to the tools and the skills and the strategies that you might not have had. I think your most fundable idea is the one you care about the most because you will be willing to do what is required you will get your feedback you will get the input like all those things like but you you can solve a complex problem you can you can challenge yourself like i don't know i just it's like something that is not in enough of the quote-unquote grant talk like i feel like the grant talk is very heady instead of realizing that what a lot of people need is actually that certainty that regardless of whatever the issue is i can figure it out yes oh this is a weakness fine i can figure it out that's right that's it that's right right like i oh, we didn't understand this part. Okay. I can, I can re-describe it. I can describe it in a different way to make sure you understand it. Like, and I think women of color, but especially black women, please, all we've been doing is navigating challenges. All we've been doing is figuring out, oh, you didn't understand me. Let me say it this way. Oh, like, oh, this is a problem. Let me fix this. Oh, like that's what, that's what we do. That's how we got here. So I just want y'all to know, like, if you want to write grants, if you want to do research, if you want to be funded and you're like, I do all the other things, but I can't do this. Don't, don't dare you believe that somehow you don't have what it takes. You have what it takes. Okay. Last thing. What advice would you give? And I'm going to put it to you, especially because again, thinking about a mid senior career person, full professor or almost there, leadership positions, all this stuff like you, who's like, well, Leslie has convinced me and she has enrolled and get that grant. She wants to get the most out of it. What advice would you give her?

SPEAKER_02: 37:16

So I would say to believe, right? I Believe that this will be different. As someone who has done every leadership program and read books, I know that this was different. This was different. And the reason why it's different is because you're not being asked to be something you're not. You're being asked to rely on who you are to do the work that you are passionate about and that you love. And look at your track record. You can do things. You can do hard things. You can do hard things. Believe in who you are. You've done it before and go for it and go for it. This is about cultivating the best you. And I feel like that that's what I've received. I am the best version of myself having come through this process. I believe in myself and just believe the process. Start and do all the modules, like do them all. And don't you're not competing with someone else to do them faster. You know, we're overachievers. So if we're not on week one, doing week one and on week three, doing week three, we get discouraged. No, do it at your pace, go through everything and you will be the better for it.

SPEAKER_01: 38:31

All that Leslie just said, I co-sign it all. We don't want you to be anybody you're not. We want you to be more of who you really are. That's right. That's actually what we're doing. And leader to leader, I'll also co-sign. You also have to do the work. You have to do the work. Yeah, you cannot just

SPEAKER_02: 38:50

show up and just be on the calls. The calls are great. The calls are great. And it's like a hype session. And, you know, it's therapy, hype. It's everything, right? Everything. But you have to do the work. Go through the modules. Answer all the questions. Keep them in a safe, in a place that you can go back and refer to them. I have them all, you know, printed out in a notebook. And

SPEAKER_01: 39:13

you go back to it. You go back. And take action, which is something you always did. Like you never showed up. not having done something. You're like, okay, I did this, this and that. So I just emailed this person. I shut this down. I just redid my schedule. I'm like, that's what I'm talking

SPEAKER_02: 39:26

about. Like take action. Do the things. And this has allowed me to mentor my faculty, right? Because I want my faculty to be successful. I love mentoring. And this has given me more tools to mentor them better in a way that's just tangible, right? Like this really works. Do this for yourself. And I'm giving you the license to do that because I think given a license to do that for my chair, and I have taken the license to do the things that I need to take the license for myself. So there's some things that, you know, so that's the thing. I have allowed my faculty to be able to take some of this on, and I want to continue to do that to help better faculty.

SPEAKER_01: 40:06

Thank you, Leslie, so much. I appreciate your time. I know people are going to love this episode. I can already tell. So much good energy. Thank you for sharing with us, and I hope you have a great day.

SPEAKER_02: 40:15

Thank you so much, Kami. I really enjoyed it, and I'm excited to to take next steps with you always. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 40:29

Ooh, congratulations to you who is still listening because the people who already stopped listening, y'all, they're going to miss out. They are about to miss out on an opportunity. So here's the thing. I would love to connect with you more meaningfully. And so I have decided that I'm going to open up some one-on-one coaching sessions for free 99 with some of my most loyal and enthusiastic listeners. I'm very excited to do this. I feel like the success of our K Coach LLC Business Enterprise allows me to have flexibility to do this kind of thing and really connect with you where you are. So who is this for? One, women of color faculty in academic medicine or public health. That's who this is for. Number two, you have not been a coaching client of Get That Grant or any of our other offerings. Number three, you love this podcast and rock with it, okay? So if that is you and you, are interested in potentially being able to schedule with me a one-on-one coaching session, faux free, then this is what I'd love you to do. I'd love you to reflect on this podcast episode you just listened to and consider what is your top takeaway? What was your big aha moment in listening to this? And why does that matter to you? And what you're going to do is post that answer, your top takeaway for the podcast, why it was important to you. Make sure that you include the podcast number and the title of the podcast. Post that either on Twitter or Instagram and tag me. You have to tag me because if you don't tag me, then I'm not going to know that you did this. So then you can't be entered to win the one-on-one coaching session. So you're going to tag me with your top takeaway on Twitter or Instagram, post it along with the episode number and name, and that will enter you into a drawing for a free coaching session with me. I am going to do more than one and I'm going to do this more than once. So I would recommend strongly that you consider the math and, you know, adjust your efforts accordingly. Like all jokes aside, I am really excited about this. I'm excited to connect with you all that I haven't had a chance to. I'm very clear. Like I understand that our coaching offerings are what we call high ticket programs. They're expensive. They're not cheap because you know what? They weren't designed to be. But that doesn't mean that everybody can access them. So you might fall into that category. You might just fall into a category of like, I don't really know what this is about, but these podcasts are really hitting and helping me. And so if you do, and you're a woman of color faculty in academic medicine or public health, then follow the instructions and hopefully I'll get to connect with you soon. All right, take care.