Your Unapologetic Career® Podcast

23 Coaching Client Spotlight: Carrie Francis MD

• Kemi Doll

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Dr. Carrie Francis is an Associate Professor in the Pediatric Otolaryngology Division of the Department of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery at Kansas University Medical Center (KUMC). She is also a woman on a mission to improve workforce development and innovation in academic medicine, an expert in medical education and serves as the inaugural Associate Dean for Workforce Innovation and Empowerment. She started her coaching journey with the 2020 RECLAIM Retreat, then enrolled in our Get That Grant group coaching program.  

Take a listen to hear some real behind the scenes of her coaching journey: 

  • How she realized she was NOT ready when she first tried coaching years ago 
  • What it felt like to be super accomplished and yet still yearning for ‘more’ 
  • The key ingredients beyond motivational words, that she needed and found in coaching 
  • The GTG frameworks she found most powerful as a med-ed oriented leader 
  • Her panic moment and the real risk she took in signing up for coaching  
  • Rediscovering ‘that chic’ in herself as a new ideal and her powerful motivation 

If you loved this convo, please go find Carrie on Twitter (@PedsOtoDoc) and show her some love! 

Text Dr. Kemi directly.

SPEAKER_02:

I love a good motivational speech. I like to be gassed up. I'm like, yes, give me through the day. And also like that dissolves, like that goes away. And so it's like, your girl needs some strategy. Like, okay, so now what do I do after that? And so, yeah, I'm glad that you had that experience. That was definitely the intention around it. It's like, you not just have the motivation, but you have the tools. Hello. Hello. You are a Listening to your unapologetic career. Being a woman of color faculty in academic medicine who wants to make a real difference with your career can be tough. Listen, these systems are not built for us, but that doesn't mean we can't make them work for us. In each episode, I'll be taking a deep dive into one core growth strategy so you can gain confidence and effectiveness in pursuing the dream career you worked so hard to achieve. All you have to do is tune in to your unapologetic career with me, your host, Kemi Dole, physician, surgeon, researcher, coach, and career strategist for an always authentic, sometimes a little raw, but unapologetically empowering word. I keep it real for you because I want you to win. building the academic career you want or hard at work checking boxes on everyone else's to-do list. A successful career doing the work that you love doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your values, your family, or your joy. Stop trying to be everything to everybody and get to learning the strategies that will three extra productivity, hone your passions into funded projects and create the career you work so hard to achieve. If you've been to every career development workshop that sounded great, but didn't actually deal with the kind of institutional pressures you face. If you're a If you're working hard, but somehow stuck in inefficiency, putting everyone else's priorities first. If you spent years training and sacrificing to become academic faculty, and here you are still working nights and weekends on the projects that you care most about, I'm here to tell you that you can walk away from this institutional mindset forever and take control of your career with clarity and strategy. Every day, I help women of color faculty and academic mentors like you, reframe and recreate their academic life so that they can channel their ideas, passions, and skills into grant-funded work with institutional support. That's why this episode is brought to you by Get That Grant, my six-month comprehensive high-performance coaching program for high-achieving women of color faculty in academic medicine who are ready to reclaim career control and secure funding doing the work they love. In Get That Grant, we help you kick imposter syndrome to the curb for good. So you lead your career with clarity and confidence. You learn productivity and strategy skills for grants and papers to maximize your chances of success without wasting your time, abandoning your passion or working yourself into the ground. We help you build the foundation for an amazing and fulfilling academic career, changing your life and the lives of everyone your work will touch. Yes, this few is possible for you, and it's waiting on you to take the first step. If you're ready for career success without sacrifice, I encourage you to book a coaching consult call today by visiting chemidol.com backslash grant. After you book your call, you will complete an in-depth career foundations assessment, helping you identify the gaps in your foundation that are holding you back from enjoying the career you work so hard to achieve. No Hi, Keri. Hi. I'm so, so, so excited to have you today for this very fun conversation. How are you feeling? I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm feeling good.

SPEAKER_02:

very exciting to me to get to have these conversations and share some of this with others. So Carrie, just to start out, can you give us your one liner, which I call that's really like everybody's three liner. So can you tell us where you're from? What is your specialty? And what is your career interest? What you trying to do with your career?

SPEAKER_00:

Right? Okay, yeah. So the one liner that is the three liner. So I am originally from St. Louis, I make it a point to say this, because I love St. Louis. I love my hometown for a variety of reasons. But But I currently live in Kansas City, the greater Kansas City area on the Kansas side, for those who know. And I'm an associate professor in the Department of Otolaryngology, head and neck surgery. I'm a pediatric surgeon there. And I spend the other half of my time or the other half of my life in med ed leadership. So medical education is definitely my interest, my passion.

SPEAKER_02:

You have a title in that med ed leadership.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm not going to let you get it way without saying it. That wasn't part of the three lines, but yes. In sort of that space, I'm also an associate dean in our Office of Faculty Affairs and Development for Workforce Innovation and Empowerment. Oh my gosh. Let's just go back. A

SPEAKER_02:

girl from the Lou. Yes. Okay. St. Louis. Also a pediatric ENT surgeon. Can I say it that way so I don't embarrass myself by trying to say the other long version of the word? Okay. Pediatric ENT. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I have my first coaching experience like four to five years ago. And it was right when I was beginning to make a shift from my purely clinical practice to more administration and leadership. It was a small shift. I would offer that is probably not something that I necessarily had in my sights, but I knew it was a great opportunity. And it was in the lane of sort of where I kind of thought that I wanted to be. And so I thought coaching would be a good idea. People were talking about it, you know, friends, family, loved ones, everyone. And what I realized in that experience was that I wasn't ready for it. Relatable. And so I really wasn't ready for the coaching where I was like, no, no, girl, what do you want? And I think that's a line that you've used. It's like, no, what do you want? And so I wasn't ready for coaching. So fast forward, you know, to this last year, actually, probably these last like two to three years, I really kind of felt like, okay, I'm ready for something. I feel a shift. There's something like going on in my spirit that I need. to really discover. And I thought about coaching again. And my first thought was, oh, yeah, but I wasn't ready for that. And so actually what I did was I dug into like what coaching is, coaching principles, you know, trying to really better understand the commitment that I needed to make, because in addition to all of the other positive things, you know, engaging my network therapy, all of this helps me get whole. I thought I felt like that coaching was Mm-hmm. I saw some of the benefits in people that I was, you know, baby coaching with in a co-development kind of space.

SPEAKER_02:

What were some of those benefits that you saw? I'm curious. What were some of the things where you were like, wait a minute, how come you have this figured out and I don't?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think clarity, you know, I go back to clarity and I think that's probably one of the biggest things that I have now. But I think it was the clarity that I saw in others and that they sort of of had a plan and it wasn't necessarily that step A through Z were all filled out, but they seem to have progress and their vision became more clear as they moved forward. They were sort of focused on the tasks. And so that I think was something that really resonated with me and also a sense of confidence in a different way because your girl is from the loo. Your girl is a surgeon. She's confident. Okay. Can we just say, okay. I needed to take it to another level because I knew there were some places where I was sort of stagnant. And so that's what I wanted to do and kind of where I wanted to take it. And so that was the place where I was like, yep, coaching. And then great opportunities came around through social media, family, friends again. And I was able to benefit from your program. Oh, we're going to get into the program. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

So, but before that, it sounds like it was two things. One was like, there was an earlier part where you're like, oh, well, let me do this coaching thing. Cause this helps. Like I can just imagine this helps. And you had a realization like, oh, I'm not ready for this because so much of it really is co-creation is what I say all the time. It's like, it really is based on what, what do you want to do? And you don't have to have your whole plan A through Z mapped up, but you do need to be able to answer that question. And I think that's what I'm hearing is back a few years ago, it was a little bit more unclear for yourself, like what that was being in a very traditional mentor relationship or structure. And then you get to the point where you really are, you're like, okay, I am a surgeon. Like I am doing all this. I have new leadership roles. I have new responsibilities. And I think I'm here, you correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm hearing like, I see, I can create more. It's like, I got here and this is a platform to do more. And that's where it's like, okay, now I am ready. What do I want? And what am I going to create with it? Is that right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because I was sort of limiting myself in a way. And so the opportunities I saw Oh, you know, perhaps with some clarity, then the opportunities become much bigger, you know, like really rediscovering the person that I am and the person that has grown since whenever, but rediscovering sort of that drive or desire that can look like a surgeon, that can look like an associate dean, that can look like somebody's coach, that can look like something else. But the end goal wasn't necessarily where I was. So the opportunities, I wanted more opportunity and I really wanted to be able to dig into

SPEAKER_02:

that. So yeah. you and maybe just tell us a little bit about what that was like and what shifted.

SPEAKER_00:

There have been many moments because, you know, there's a week or there's a day that I think one thing and then there's a group call and I'm like, oh, okay, I see something different. But, you know, what I really think was important for me sort of happened at the beginning and then sort of midway, maybe two thirds of the way in. And so sort of at the beginning, I remember you saying like, you are enough or telling the group, you all are enough. You have the tools that you need to be successful. And it was one of those, I was immediately sort of taken back to my previous coaching experience. And I'm like, yeah, that's how everybody says that. It's like a wellness tag and you just believe it and then it happens. And I'm like, that's just not the way my mind processes information. I can believe a number of things. And so it really, there was a bit of a disconnect. I'm like, okay. And then by the end of the session, we had literally walked through a process of how to focus, how to see ourselves differently and one that we could go back to, right? So even with the notes or even with the videos, it was like, okay, here are the things that you can do. And that felt different, right? And so that was the point where I was like, oh, okay, this is some goodness here because it was Yes. And then I'm like, okay, so what am I supposed to be doing?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. That is such a great example because that is for sure. A hundred percent. I'm very similar. Like, I'm like, I love a good motivational speech. Like I'm scrolling past and somebody's like, this will motivate you. I'm like, tap, listen. Like, I like to be guessed up. I'm like, yes, give me through the day. And also like that dissolves, like that goes away. And so it's like, your girl needs some strategy. Like, okay, so now what do I do after that? And so, yeah, I'm glad that you had that experience. That was definitely the intention around it. It's like you not just have the motivation, but you have the tools.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, because for me, I think the commitment is what always has to happen first. Like I'm strategy. I'm like, what do I need to do? And then the motivation for me usually comes after because then with the strategies, with building the evidence that I am who I say I am, then I see this identity. I rediscover. this person. I sort of reinvest in the values that I have stated are important to me. And then the motivation comes because now I'm chasing, now I'm chasing that chick. And, you know, I feel like through Get That Grant, I've been able to find that chick again. And, you know, we're besties. So when you see her, right? And so it's sort of come full circle. And I think that was sort of my midpoint experience in that I kind of looked back and was like, oh, here are the things that I've done. Here are the changes that I've made. Here are these sort of granular things that have made a difference. And that was super important. And so now it was less the commitment and it was then like, well, I got to chase this, right? Like I got to keep going forward because I've already made it this far. I love that. I love it. I have a live question for you.

SPEAKER_02:

I just came up for me. So speaking of, you said said, you know, I enrolled and get that grant. But one of the things is like you are your career, you're in leadership, you're in professional development, transformation change, you're not writing for RO1s getting like multimillion dollar grants. I am curious, I know you went through a process. What was it like to go through the process, especially the material that was more focused on grant? And then how were you able to, or what was still valuable for you in terms of using that

SPEAKER_00:

material? That is a really great question. So what I would say is that because I am sort of process oriented. Seeing a process helped first. And then, of course, there was that initial, OK, but how does this translate into my life? And so what I think I got out of it and what I still sort of refer to as I am creating and co-developing, co-leading teams is how I show up and who is part of the team. Yes, the team show. The team strategy. dope teams. I have one dope team in particular that I'm thinking about right now. And it was really, how can I invest in and make this deeper? How can I make this better? And, you know, also not I, how, what can I do to help us co-elevate here? Yes. Yes. I love that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. That team strategies. I love that module too, because it's all about like one, that awareness of like understanding how much we project out onto the team and And so, like, how important it is to clear up yourself about, like, what are you showing up with? Like, where are you coming from? And then I just think that empowerment piece of, like, okay, so, like, how are you going to construct this team? And for so long, we're used to being given, you know, like, this is the team. This is the plan. This is the pattern. Weave yourself into that or mold yourself into that. And it's just widely applicable across a number of things. But I'm glad it was helpful for you at that time. I hear that a lot. People are like, oh, I don't know. It's like, I don't know why, but it hit me right at the right moment. And I think it's because there's so much in there. I don't know. I should be I should let you talk. But

SPEAKER_00:

there is a lot in there and it makes a lot of sense. And I think, you know, what you just said sort of resonated as well, because I think at one point in an earlier group session, you were like, nobody is coming for y'all at this point. And I think that also resonates with the team strategy because, you know, we can create what we want. want or we get to decide how we show up. And that was so important.

SPEAKER_02:

Wait, what was I talking about when I said nobody's coming for y'all? Because, you know, I don't remember remembering what I say. It just comes out.

SPEAKER_00:

The brilliance of Dr. Kimmy Doll. So it was early on. And I'm talking about the sort of the strategy or the hierarchy of medicine. And I'm using my own words now. I'm not quoting you, but the hierarchy of medicine and sort of how we're given and we're often not allowed to choose or externalizing our value. And I think you circled back and was like, nobody's coming for y'all. You can decide how you show up. Oh

SPEAKER_02:

yes. This is like, no, you're not going to get in trouble. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

exactly. Like you've already, you've sort of reached the milestone where people are constantly judging you realistically and you get to create the environment that you want to exist in.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yes. Oh, yes. Okay. Love it. I could talk about this all day. So let's go to the next question. So Carrie, what would you say to someone, especially another Black woman who just signed up for Get That Grant and is freaking out? Because I love this. People sign up and they're like, oh my God. Did I really do this? Yeah. What am I doing? Yeah. So what would you say to this woman and what can they expect?

SPEAKER_00:

So I think two things. One, that it's not a competition. And I sort of initially Yes, yes. support each other, as well as it is so much about seeing the best of yourself. And I think that just really ties into the other part is that it's about being your best self, your approach, the Get That Grant program. And there's no pressure. There's no binaries of being good or bad. You know, like you said, nobody is keeping tabs for you. Nobody is coming for you. You can catch up with the modules. You can go slow. You can go fast. But there's so much that's there that I think is important. And if you allow yourself to trust the process, trust you, trust Kimmy, and trust your cohort, ultimately, I think there's something that comes from that. There's power that comes from that. There's dividends that you will see. And so I think you just have to take the leap or take that risk.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. I think we should... Yeah, I don't think we talk enough about... It does feel like a leap. It is a risk. It does feel like It is. you the stamp of approval and you will be fine. And we're so used to that. One of the things that's like real shift in coaching is like, listen, we're betting on you. What, what the bet is on you and you're going to get supported and there's all the tools and there's, there's like so much here for you, but ultimately the bet is on you. And I feel like that's, I think that's probably the reason why people freak out one. It's the second thing. Is it such a shift? And like, it is a leap. It almost circles back to where you started with is Like you gotta be ready. You know, like that's part of it is like, you actually need to be ready because, because that's what it's required. Now the dividends, as you know, I'm like, I mean, I think they just, they like literally never stopped coming in. They speak for themselves, but there's that place where it's like, you gotta have to get yourself into that place first. I'm like, okay, yes, I'm betting on me. I'm terrified, but I'm gonna do it,

SPEAKER_00:

you know? Anyway. Yeah. And it goes back to that commitment thing. And just like speaking for myself, like I had to be committed before I could actually be motivated by it. And so So now I do bet on myself. Now I trust myself, always growing, always momentary lapses, right? But what I fall back on is not just showing up because it's in my calendar. What I fall back on is now like, that's that girl and I'm going for her, right? Like I'm chasing that. So the commitment then is easier. It's a habit, it's a routine because now I'm really, the motivation looks different because I have this, that I'm going for. And so,

SPEAKER_03:

yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I was like, I need the schedule. And you so graciously, your team sent me the schedule. And you were like, I mean, it's here and here. And I'm pretty sure my email sounded frantic, polite, but probably sounded frantic. And I'm sure you get those all the time. All the time.

SPEAKER_02:

We're used to it.

SPEAKER_00:

We're like, oh, okay. It's a frantic email phase. It's fine. It's fine. If it's not in my calendar, it's not going to happen. And in the midst of sort of not talking myself out because, you know, I'd already paid, it was already a commitment, but sort of like talking myself down, like the opposite of gassing myself up, I needed it in my calendar. And so I think that would be the first or the best tip that I could give for someone that's freaking out and starting off because get it in the calendar and make a commitment, you know, if you have to shift other things, at least you're ready and prepared for having to shift A, B and C commitment that is now has to be moved from Saturday mornings or whenever your session is. And I would also say start slow. Like I definitely believe in the things that I am sort of a little bit more nervous about or sort of less confident about starting small. And so, you know, with the word it might be, okay, I got to commit to doing 10 minutes today because that's all I can commit. I kind of don't want to do it because I'm kind of scared of what's going to happen. I don't know what, you know, I don't know. A lot of people are like, I don't know what she's about to say in this video. I don't know what I'm going to have to like own up to. And I need to be prepared. And so I was like, let me start with like my five to 10 minutes a day. Then I work up. Right. And so I think not being so hard on yourself and actually just starting as small as possible and then, you know, see what happens next.

SPEAKER_02:

I love it. Thank you so much. I actually think that's great advice. I mean, cause I think what it is, is that it's actually you starting to do the thing where you move from theory to action in real time. It's like, oh, I made this commitment. I'm putting it on my calendar. I did like even getting used to doing that for you, like not for something else, not for, oh, I said I would meet with you. So here's the schedule. But like I said, I would do something for me and here I am reserving the time is I think that That's beautiful advice. And yeah, I mean, as you may remember, I remind y'all over and over again that it is a weekly pace on purpose, that you should move at your pace. And every time people are like, I did 18 modules today and I'm very overwhelmed. I'm like, okay, so let's go back to like the

SPEAKER_00:

first one. Well, I am definitely your client that is on the opposite end.

SPEAKER_02:

No, you did fine. You finished all of it. You know, like I feel like your pace was beautiful. You made it all the way through. Anyway, Carrie, thank you. you so, so, so, so much for your time today. This is so exciting. I'm really grateful. Like I know that everybody tells you this is what they want. This is what they want to hear. It's so hard for them to imagine what this process is like. And it's a pleasure to work with you. I mean, girl, talk about big goals, dreams. We're about to take over the world. I'm ready. Is there anything else you want to share?

SPEAKER_00:

Honestly, I think the only thing I would share is really that for your audience, for anyone who is considering engaging with you, Dr. Kimmy Doll is brilliant. You've really done so much for myself. You've done so much for our Reclaim group that we still talk about you all the time. The

SPEAKER_02:

first Reclaim retreat will go down in history. Y'all are not. I wasn't even sure if I was going to do it again. And now people are literally badgering me. They're like, I'm sorry, when is the next date? I'm like, oh my gosh. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So yeah, you will reap benefits from this program. And I think the structure and also just one of the things that was helpful for me was building the network of other women in academic medicine who also were experiencing the same things and really ready to launch and do growth. And so awesome experience. I am ready for the next level.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I'm excited for your continued experience. Y'all were being cagey on purpose. You find out, you know, when you know, you'll find out when you know. Um, Carrie, thank you so much. I hope you have a great day and thank you for sharing. Absolutely. Thank you, Kimmy. Thank you so much for listening with me today. I appreciate your time as I know it's so valuable. I hope this episode was helpful to you and I hope you feel energized to go out and claim your unapologetic career. See you soon.