32 Coaching Client Spotlight: Marjory Charlot MD, MPH, MSc

Dr. Marjory Charlot is an Assistant Professor, thoracic medical oncologist, and health equity researcher at the University of North Carolina – Chapel Hill. Her work centers on the experience and outcomes of Black patients with cancer in order to intervene and eliminate racial disparities in cancer outcomes. She is also an alumnae of the Get That Grant coaching program and an ongoing amazing coaching client. 

Take a listen to hear some real behind the scenes of her coaching journey: 

• Having a great new job, a start-up package, the needed research training and still being a ‘hot mess’  
• What is sounded like to have all of the “WHATs” but none of the “HOWs” 
• The powerful question that changed how she makes decisions on all new opportunities  
• Breaking free of email running her career life 
• Creating her blueprint to execute her day to day and her long-term goals with clarity 
• Unabashed #squadgoals bragging on her fierce coaching community ;)  

If you loved this convo, please go find Marjory on Twitter (@MarjoryCharlot) and show her some love! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

I think that most of the times we are very untapped in how much internal power that we have for ourselves. And especially for Black women in academic medicine and public health, we've been tapping into that internal place for so long just to get to where we are. So we know it's really strong, but I think we have so much opportunity to develop it on behalf of ourselves instead of on behalf of hitting the next milestone. And so I think the community piece is so important because sometimes you do need to just borrow courage. So Sometimes you do need to be in a group where you see somebody being like, listen, I just did it. And you're like, you know what? I will not come back before I have also sent my email. You know, like, I think that's a beautiful thing because the celebrations that happen, it's just so rich. And I see everybody like being poured into, right. And leaving just even fuller. And it just, it's an amazing experience for me too. I feel like I borrow courage from y'all all the time.

UNKNOWN: 0:58

Yeah. you

SPEAKER_01: 1:02

Hello, hello. You are listening to your unapologetic career. Being a woman of color faculty in academic medicine who wants to make a real difference with your career can be tough. Listen, these systems are not built for us, but that doesn't mean we can't make them work for us. In each episode, I'll be taking a deep dive into one core growth strategy so you can gain confidence and effectiveness in pursuing the dream career you worked so hard to achieve. All you have to do is tune in to your unapologetic career with me, your host, Kemi Dole, physician, surgeon, researcher, coach, and career strategist for an always authentic, sometimes a little raw, but unapologetically empowering word. I keep it real for you because I want you to win. building the academic career you want or hard at work checking boxes on everyone else's to-do list. A successful career doing the work that you love doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your values, your family, or your joy. Stop trying to be everything to everybody and get to learning the strategies that will three extra productivity, hone your passions into funded projects and create the career you work so hard to achieve. If you've been to every career development workshop that sounded great, but didn't actually deal with the kind of institutional pressures you face. If your work Thank you. like you, reframe and recreate their academic life so that they can channel their ideas, passions, and skills into grant-funded work with institutional support. That's why this episode is brought to you by Get That Grant, my six-month comprehensive high-performance coaching program for high-achieving women of color faculty in academic medicine who are ready to reclaim career control and secure funding doing the work they love. In Get That Grant, we help you kick imposter syndrome to the curb for good. So you lead your career with clarity and confidence. You learn productivity and strategy skills for grants and papers to maximize your chances of success without wasting your time, abandoning your passion or working yourself into the ground. We help you build the foundation for an amazing and fulfilling academic career, changing your life and the lives of everyone your work will touch. Yes, this few is possible for you, and it's waiting on you to take the first step. If you're ready for career success without sacrifice, I encourage you to book a coaching consult call today by visiting chemidoll.com backslash grant. After you book your call, you will complete an in-depth career foundations assessment, helping you identify the gaps in your foundation that are holding you back from enjoying the career you work so hard to achieve. No more secret worrying that you just don't have what it takes. This career assessment will show you exactly where you need to focus to level up your experience and your impact. Book a coaching consult call today to get your career foundation score. Visit chemingdole.com backslash grant to book your call. Talk to you soon. Hello, Marjorie. How are you? I'm great. Hi, Kemi. Welcome. Welcome to the Your Unapologetic Career podcast. I'm so excited to have you on the show today. Thank you. I'm excited to be with you. All right, well, let's jump right in. So I would love for you just to start off telling us your specialty, where you work, and what is the good work that you do in the world, Marjorie? Sure. So I am a thoracic medical oncologist and health equity researcher at the University of North Carolina Lineberger Comprehensive Cancer Center. It's a mouthful. My work focuses on engaging Black patients and caregivers as research partners to center and amplify the their voices and experiences and interventions that are developed to address racial inequities in cancer care delivery and cancer outcomes. I mean, clear and powerful, clear and powerful. Why do you do this work, Marjorie? What is it about these patients? So I think a lot of it for me just resonates just basically from my own background as seeing myself as a Black individual, a Black medical oncologist. Right. take care of patients who grew up in my neighborhood. And so it's been sort of invested in my community and also using that towards scholarship as well. It's just so moving. I mean, like I just, I don't really feel like there's any way to adequately kind of capture the value that comes from the personal experience, you know, from like being so very rooted in a place and then moving towards the status and like with the professional training and everything to be able to come at it from a completely different angle, but never losing sight of like your experiences before you even started. Like, I just think, I just think it's a superpower. That's personally, I think that's why our work is, can be so transformative. But anyway, where were you in your career when you started to consider coaching? Because you're obviously somebody who's very accomplished coming from where you started to where you are now. And I'm curious as to if you could share what wasn't working for you. Sure. So I probably have like a two to three fold way of answering that. So I would say time-wise, I was about two and a half years into my position at UNC with most of that time actually being spent during the pandemic at the time that I was coaching. So I was a hot mess. I mean, having lived through homeschooling, virtual in-person clinic, and then trying to get research done. So to me, like all of that just was overwhelming. I think it's also important to share, as you kind of alluded to, I was about six years out from completing my research fellowship when I was recruited to UNC. And so by the time I was thinking about coaching, I was already eight years post-fellowship training. So for me, I had a lot of internal and maybe some external pressure about the clock ticking. By the time I got to UNC, I was thinking, okay, I got to get this career development award. I got to write these. several manuscripts and I'm I gotta start thinking about my promotion packet and so you know so all of these thoughts were sort of in my head and I was like okay I've got to do something to like make this the most productive season of my career you know I also wanted to add too is that location wise I was and I'm still in a very supportive and resourceful environment and so I have a protected time I have funds to support my research you know successful mentoring teams And despite that, I just kind of felt like I was not working in a way that prioritized my research and my goals. And I felt that, you know, despite being in this great environment that I didn't really know how to do the work to be really productive. And so that's what wasn't working for me. It was this fact of like not being able to really like foresee or have a blueprint in terms of like, okay, how am I going to get to where exactly it is that I want to go? And I was also in this place of of not trusting myself and not really having confidence in my own ability to make decisions. Like I've always felt like, oh no, my mentor, my mentoring team, they tell me how to do this work. And so I just, you know, I felt like I needed more of that encouragement, that coaching, that guidance to really help me direct the path that I wanted to, you know, to take in order to get to do the work that I was called to do. Yes. Thank you for sharing. I I think I'm going to pull out a couple of things because you had the professional training, like you had finished, obviously you did your clinical fellowship, but you had also done research fellowship. Then you had significant clinical experience. So, you know, six years of working safety net hospital, like seeing the problems, understanding what all the possibilities were. Then you come into a position, you have protected time. Like you said, you feel very resourced. We're not tearing anybody down here. Like it was nice environment. You're ready to go. And so still there is this gap of like, okay, everybody's saying I have all of the things lined up, right? It's all supposed to be like gravy now, right? I've got everything that you're supposed to be asking for. And yet I don't know how to make all this work in a way that's sane, I think is what I'm hearing. Like in a way that I feel like I can retain my wholeness through this journey and it's going to work out. And I just think it's really important because it's really easy before you might have all those things, before you might have protected time, and a great mentor team and everything to think that's all there is. Like if I just have those things and all of my problems would go away. Whereas I think all of us have so much more internal development potential when we get to these positions that no matter where like your support is, like if you have a minimal amount or a lot of support, it can be extremely optimized or really transformed by that internal work. So I appreciate you sharing that. So can you remember a moment in Get That Grant where something shifted for you in a big way? And could you potentially share one of those times with us? Sure. My gosh, I think there were several of these moments. I think what the one that sticks out for me was actually, it was one of your, it was one of the coaching sessions that we had where it was shifting your mindset. It was like the CTFAR lesson that, you know, kind of gone through like what, what circumstance are you in? What are your thoughts and feelings and how that impacts your actions and the results? And so I remember having this particular issue around divisional commitments, like, you know, we need you to do this and sort of like how to approach that. And one of the things that stuck out for me were just the questions that you were asking, you know, about, you know, what's your title for this particular divisional commitment? And I was like, I don't have a title. And it was like, how do you want to contribute? You know, and I was pretty clear exactly like what I why I was interested in this particular commitment like you know what I could give to it and then like in the midst of you asking these questions and as I'm answering these questions you know I remember just like passionately exclaiming like I'm an adult and I remember like oh my god did I say that with too much attitude because I'm really not angry with you Kemi it's just really coming to this realization that I'm an adult and I actually get to decide how I plan to contribute and I'm not going to get in trouble. I'm not going to get fired. Like these are things you always, you know, ask us, like, are you concerned about these things? And I think just that experience alone has like transformed how I approach different asks, how I set boundaries. And so it has been just like really instrumental just to take that, you know, one example and be able to use that in how I I speak with my colleagues and collaborators and say, this is the time that I have. And this is how I can contribute with the time that I have and not feel guilty about not being everything to everyone. Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. Praise dance. Also, I think that's one of the most powerful questions we can actually ask ourselves that we usually skirt over. So that's what's so amazing to me about like when people have a lot of, they're struggling with time or like this commitment, I just don't know. And it's like, we've always skipped over the part that's, wait, wait, wait, how do you want to contribute? Like, what is it that you want to contribute to this thing? Because though this is, I don't want to belittle the struggle of doing things you don't really want to do, because that's real. I mean, there's a lot of pressure in academics to be doing stuff that you have like no business doing whatsoever. It's just a different path of getting to the point where you're comfortable and truly saying, no, I don't want to do this. But then there's this whole other world of you've engaged an interest of mine. I do care about this, but like, it's completely out of control. It's unwieldy. And that's the place where that question, like, how do you want to contribute is the beginning to designing how you actually contribute. And it's like, if we don't do that, then we end up sometimes sacrificing the very contribution that we were there to make because we're trying to do everything else. And that's just sad. I just want all of us out of that kind of paradigm. So I'm so glad that you had that experience, but I think you're really speaking to how, like, I talk about this a lot, but it's like in the very specific moments is when these shifts can happen. But then even though they're in one specific moment, they just apply broadly. Like all of a sudden you're seeing all the other ways and you're like, wait a minute, I can also contribute this way here. And also, like you said, I am an adult. Yeah, I feel that. I think part of, I'll just say this, you don't have to agree with me or not. I mean, you could disagree with me, but I think there's this underlying way in which institution independent across the board, I think we have this underlying unspoken rule around in academics. That's like to be an adult means that you are being a team player and contributing. Like the definition of like the maturity aspect is like just be a team player and do whatever needs to be done. And there are so many circumstances where that's the case. And I think actually most of us have no problem in those circumstances where that is warranted. You know, it's like all hands on deck. A patient's in trouble. But it just extends. everywhere so all of a sudden it also has to do with like having a weekly meeting that you have no business being at like on your schedule so it's like that reclamation from a kernel of something that I think is really strong and most of us who join academic departments being a team player wanting to contribute like also has to be it's like you have to be able to learn what that means to you and then be able to then execute on that so that when you show up you're super valuable so people are like oh my gosh yes Marjorie is here to No, I completely agree. Like just being able to contribute in a way that utilizes like my expertise, my potential, and not just kind of going along, right? really focusing on that and not just being there just to be there, just a check. Yes. Yeah. I completely agree. Yeah. It's also a lot more exhausting to try to do when you're just doing it. It's just so much more exhausting as opposed to being excited because you're there for a reason. Okay. Well, thank you for sharing that. So Marjorie, what do you have now that you didn't have before you embarked on your coaching journey? You can answer this whatever way you want. Oh, okay. Well, I would say when I just started coaching, coaching, I had already submitted this grant that I submitted more for like practice. I was like, oh, okay. I just want to get some feedback because I need to apply for an NIHK award because that's just what you need to do. Like that's the checkbox. And so surprisingly I got the grant. And so not surprisingly, okay. Did we just, did we just not start the episode talking about all of your accolades and training experience? Okay. Okay. Thank you for correcting me. So I got the grant, but I have to say the intention was never even to get it. It was to like get feedback, but I got the grant. And I would say, you know, since then, you know, I've been sort of thinking about like, oh my gosh, like I actually got the grant. So like, how do I do this work? And so I think one of the things that I've gained, you know, through coaching that I didn't have before was just this, you know, blueprint and guidance in terms of or not really guidance, but like a path in terms of like, how am I actually going to execute this work? You know, although the curriculum, I would say focuses more on, you know, getting the grant, like getting a manuscript written. It also provided for me a framework in terms of like, how do I approach my work? And so I have to say that I did not have that before. That's certainly something that I gained through coaching. I would say the other thing that I also got is just clarity in my work, you know, before I used to, my, my work and how I scheduled things was pretty much based on like what email I got, you know, it's like, who else, you know, like, oh, we want you to collaborate. Oh, okay. You need me, you need a collaborator. Sure. Everyone had their deadline and the things that they needed to get done. And I'm like, yes, I'm your yes person. I'm going to get yourself done. And then not having a structure to, to focus on my work and set my own deadlines. And so I think that's where, you know, I just having that clear vision and a path and a structure in terms of how I wanted to do my work is something that I certainly gained as a result of coaching that I didn't have before. And then I would say the last thing, I mean, there were several things, but I think the other thing that I wanted to highlight too, is just this community of fierce women who were doing amazing things across the country and just to be in that same space, you know, and I think just having that peer coaching, mentoring aspect as part of the program is also something, you know, I just get inspired just hearing like what people are doing and just the advice that people are giving, whether it's through the Facebook platform or just within our coaching sessions. I think that has also been tremendous for me in terms of what I've been able to, you know, almost kind of like, what's the word, you know, sort of like the sprinkling of other people, like greatness, you know, sort of onto me as well. And sort of being like in the midst of all of that brilliance has certainly been a tremendous experience, I think, as part of the coaching program. Amen to all of that. You know, the thing that also struck me about what you were talking about with like structure, right? Like what I had before. I mean, I know I wasn't the only one who took like a phantom dagger when you were talking about my schedule is based on what email is like at the top of my inbox. So I mean, because that is basically the default. It's like open your inbox and then that sets basically your day, your week, your month, like whatever is in there. I always tell people like, I don't think that we should feel bad about this. This is just the default structure. So if you don't have your own, it makes sense that that's how you're operating. You're operating by like this person needs this, this person needs that. One of the things that I've always loved about coaching and the process too, is that it isn't, this is like the template that everybody must do. It's how do we design your template? Like how do you take some tools and some tricks that we know work well, but then how do we design it for your life? And you mentioned this in passing, I just want to highlight it. It's like, not just how do we design your week, right? But then how do you set goals and then design your path to get there? Because when we have that, like when we have the combination of, I understand what I'm going to do this week and I understand what I'm doing over the course of this year, it totally changes your approach to the email. Right. Because now you have this very clear structure that you are filtering it through. And then that changes how much energy it takes to make the decision, which then changes like literally how much energy you have during your day. So I think you've really hit on something very foundational, almost going back to where we started, which is like, it's hard to know how am I going to do all of this when you really don't have the structure to put it in place. And it's one of the things I love so much about coaching because it looks different for each person, but the structure is the key for each person. Like that's where the bridge is. Absolutely. So I wanted to say that about the structure piece. The community. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no, no, no. I was just going to say, I agree in terms of the structure, just because it also provides you, you're able to like see in black and white on paper, like, oh, I actually need to get this done to get my work done. So it allows you to filter some of the email, even if you start your day off with email, which I still do. I mean, I'm an alliance. say I'm a completely converted person but at least I have an idea of like oh this project no I can't do because I'm actually submitting this paper or this grant or whatever have you in x months and so I can't contribute to this so yeah well so Marjorie actually so I think you're actually referring to something so what Marjorie's right because I will say that I tend to try to encourage people to try to experiment with not checking their email first thing in the morning so that's doing a couple of things. One, just breaking a habit, but two, it's actually forcing you to spend time with yourself first, like before the influx of everybody else's ideas and feelings and thoughts, like what are you thinking of when you first start? Like, what do you want to do? So part of it is that, but I actually think what you're describing where you're like, well, you know, I still need to get my email in the morning, but it's actually based on, it's based on the strength of the foundation that you built for yourself now, because now you can open the email in the morning and you're not like, oh, my plans, scrap my plans. There There's a new inbox. You're like, you're saying my structure is sound enough that I can take in whatever's there. I actually like that process first. I kind of know what's coming, but it's not swaying me from the most important things for my progress and my career. And that is what we all want, right? So whether you're a 3 a.m. email or checker or a 3 p.m., it doesn't matter. You're now free to do it whenever it works for you because it doesn't derail your whole day. Exactly. Exactly. I agree.

UNKNOWN: 24:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:45

I love it. Okay. And I don't want to lose the thread about the community. So, you know what, I'll try to be more brief about this, but I would say like something that I think I heard it first from Lovey. I don't know who first said it, but she talks about borrowing courage. And I think about that all the time. Like, I think that most of the times we are very untapped in how much internal power that we have for ourselves. And especially for Black women in academic medicine and public health, we've been tapping into that internal place for so long just to get to where So we know it's really strong, but we, I think we have so much opportunity to develop it on behalf of ourselves instead of on behalf of like hitting the next milestone. But at the same time, like none of us are designed to do this alone. And also most of us don't go into academics to be alone. Like it's like the opposite. We're like trying to like work with people and like be in this lovely academic environment and all of that. And so I think the community piece is so important because sometimes you do need to just borrow borrow courage. Like sometimes you do need to be in a group where you see somebody being like, listen, I just did it. And you're like, you know what? I will not come back before I have also sent my email. You know, like, I think that's a beautiful thing because the celebrations that happen, it's just so rich. And I see everybody like being poured into, right. And leaving just even fuller. And it just, I don't know. It's like, it's an amazing experience for me too. I feel like I borrow courage from y'all all the time. Oh yeah. I mean, it's just so amazing. I mean, and you know, for me also, it's just because a lot of us are typically in spaces where we're the only ones that look like ourselves. And so I think even to be in a space when you see other people that look like you and are just so, I mean, these women are fierce. I can't even like find the words to describe them. They're doing things and then just borrowing courage and then And also like, you know, these women are leaving by example and just seeing like doing this, like if they could do it, I'm going to do it too. Right. Like if it's exactly, you know, and I think just having that has been so tremendous. I mean, it's my God, just, yeah, you have to experience it. That's all I know. I know. Right. That's like, I know we're doing the thing. It's like, if you know, you know, I don't know. I don't, you know, we don't know what else to say, but it's true. It's just true. Okay. So last question. What advice would you give a woman of color or Black woman faculty like you who was kind of at the beginning, just signed up for Get That Grant and wants to be sure she gets the most out of it? I would say, you know, for me, the way I approached it was just come in with an openness to be true to yourself. You know, I think for me, it was a time to kind of let my guard down, free myself from comparing myself to others. I remember when I was thinking about coaching and I was like, oh, gosh, you know, Kimmy, like on the website, it says early career. Am I early career? Cause I'm like, you know, I've been in, you know, I've been doing clinical work for this. So I think just kind of letting go of all of that and just like approaching it with an openness to be prepared and ready to transform your career. Like that, that to me, I think is the biggest advice. And then I think also like do the work, right? Like, I mean, seriously, I mean, I think it's sort of like therapy. Like, You can sit there in therapy sessions and get all this great encouragement and not do any of it and not change and not grow. And so I think in order to actually grow in your career and transform your career, it's going to take work. And sometimes it's unsettling, the changes that have to be made. But I think you come out of it at the end with joy in doing the work, productivity, which is the reason why I decided to get at coaching and just clarity. I mean, I can't say enough how much clarity and transparency in sort of the path ahead is important. And so I would say, you know, just come ready and open to do the work and you'll come out of it like so much joyful or in your work and in your career. Yeah, nothing to add to that, Marjorie. I think you said it. I think you said it. And I've been starting to, even this early career thing I mean, I did a podcast on this, like what does early career mean? Because I've been learning too with all the clients and it's like, it's not what we think it is. It's really more of like where you are in terms of your mindset and your self-leadership much more than it is where you are at any year of your career. And ultimately like what we, if you know that something's got to change about the way that you're operating in your career, like that's basically the lane that we're in because you have to be in that place to be, to say to yourself, okay, I am willing to try it differently. And some of the work is internal for sure. And some of it is external. It's like, listen, we are not going to do the schedule like this anymore. So it's like, that's part of the unsettling. It's like, you were going to do it differently. But even that willingness is like breaking the old habits and opening up to like, okay, this new process is actually going to help. So, I mean, I said, I didn't have a fan to add, but you know, here I am. Is there anything else that you want to share before we wrap up Marjorie? Oh my goodness. Let me see. Probably just, Kemi, you're just amazing at what you do. I mean, I think your ability to drive fierce women of color to do the work that they were born to do. And, you know, I think it's just a true testament to your genius and your brilliance as a career strategist. And, you know, as I already did, I was like, I'd like to offer that your curriculum, as you just kind of restated it too, it's just, it's for women at all stages of their career. And so, you know, if you're ready for more business, but like. Y'all are already here, basically. This is the thing I love. This is what I love about my time. You can extend yourself, clone yourself. I know you said this, like, yeah, this is only for so-and-so, but I'm here anyway. I'm like, you know what? I appreciate the hustle. I appreciate the hustle and people being like, listen, so you said early career, but I'm in year 11 and I feel like that counts. Let's talk about my problems. I'm like, okay. Because honestly, that's the spirit that actually tells me you're going to do the work. Like you're coming, like you're ready. You're really ready. You know, how that shows up is different depending on your of year. Like, I feel like I hit the same hustle from the fellows who were like, I'm graduating in 67 days. So I feel like I should just go ahead and sign up. And I'm like, okay, I appreciate your hustle, but I'm going to date you. Like, it really doesn't work while you're still an employee of the GME. So like, we're going to have to do

SPEAKER_02: 31:30

this differently. You

SPEAKER_01: 31:32

actually need a job. You do need a job. I need you to be gainfully employed, but I think you are hitting on something really important and actually something that I love. Like I do love. And I think I, I think I probably attract clients like that too, which is that I might not know the how, but I'm so committed to my work. I'm so committed to what I want to do that. Like I'm willing to go on this journey. And I think that's what we feel in the community is because you're surrounded by people like enriched for people who are like, I love what I do so much. Like my work in this world means so much. The impact I'm trying to make is so important to me. And that just creates a different kind of vibe. Right. And it's, and so everybody needs the same gold stars and everybody needs the promotion and everybody needs all of that. But that really is secondary to why we are here. And that is rare, I found. And it's one of the most, to me, important things about the community. And so it is why there is a, people always ask me like, where do I do this? And I can't find it. I'm like, there's a multi-step process. Because it's very important that, you know, that you're like in the right mindset and that like you're going the right direction to make this make sense for you. So, and I think Marjorie, you obviously, are and were, and it's been a total wonderful pleasure to work with you. Thank you for the kind words that you said, but truly you all, you all give me the inspiration. It's just wonderful. So thank you. Well, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your brilliance with me. All right. Take care, Marjorie. Have a great week. Hello, I'm coming through to remind you that we are starting a listener letter segment on the Your Unapologetic Career podcast. The segment is unnamed thus far. The placeholder is listener letters. I'm considering names. Submit if you feel so inclined. But anyway, just a reminder to write in with questions that you have. You can ask me anything. I will decide what I want to answer. You can bring forth challenging situations or suggest topics you might want to hear more about to do that. You can reach me at podcast at kdolcoach.com. That's podcast at kdolcoach.com with your questions. Please note if you'd like to be anonymous and I will always do my best to keep you so excited to hear from y'all. Bye.